S02.E04: The Principal’s Office

[P2C2E]

7 minutes ago, kwnyc said:

You let Barbara sing, children. She was in the original cast of Dreamgirls!

Also: Melissa's doormat reads "Go Away"

Ha! That's something we have in common!

The doormat, that is. Sadly I was not in the original cast of Dreamgirls.

Edited October 14, 2022 by P2C2E

[JakeyJokes]

The principal’s office wasn’t a big thing in my school — You usually just got sent in the hall if you were acting up. Kids only got sent “to the office” if they were REALLY acting up; I actually remember now a classmate (in fourth grade) who got sent in the hall because the teacher told him he was having an attitude. He protested and then got so mad that he violently slammed the door upon his exit, and then our teacher calmly said “he actually needs to go to the office.” I don’t recall him returning that day.

Ive rewatched this episode twice already. Still don’t know if I laugh more at the “Shame!” cutaway or the tag, which was a tour de force for Lisa Ann Walter.

My grandma has the same candles that Barbara used and trots them out for every birthday, even when her husband just turned 85.

Edited October 14, 2022 by JakeyJokes

[SG429]

On 10/12/2022 at 11:24 PM, Blakeston said:

I'm fine with Janine being naive and clueless, but sometimes her actions are just over-the-top. Like thinking it was in any way appropriate to try to make amends on Melissa's behalf. Come on, Janine, you're an adult.

The ep lost me when it introduced this very tired sitcom trope. Well-meaning friend secretly sets up friends/lovers/families to reconcile. Hilarity ensues, maybe somebody learns a lesson, roll credits.

[gesundheit]

8 hours ago, P2C2E said:

So many good parts to this episode but one of my favorites was this exchange:

Jacob: Talk to me, bro

Gregory: Try again.

Jacob: Copy that. 

I thought it was hilarious and also a nice way to show the progression of their friendship.

I loved that. No shaming or calling-out, just a quick gentle note. And no mea culpa or nervous apologies, just "yup, got it." Progress!

4 hours ago, JakeyJokes said:

The principal’s office wasn’t a big thing in my school — You usually just got sent in the hall if you were acting up. Kids only got sent “to the office” if they were REALLY acting up;

Yeah, we might get sent to the principal's office but it did not involve interacting with the actual principal. Vice principal or some other disciplinarian perhaps.

Cracked me up that Gregory kept pointing out how discipline "wasn't his job." Teaching is like 65% classroom management!

[Harvey]

I find it ironic that last season, Gregory was all about wanting to be principal. But when he is faced with having to do a task that is the principal's job, he whines about it. When in fact, if he was in the principal position as he wanted to be, he would have to discipline children anyway, so he really shouldn't have such a resistance to doing that part of the job. It's just a learning opportunity for the time when he does become a principal.

[dmmetler]

On 10/12/2022 at 9:06 PM, Mountainair said:

I have a few friends in my class that need special attention. If they have an IEP in place they are mostly treated like Micha by all staff. It can be a struggle but he had the right idea by finding a way to connect with him through Bluey. Sometimes you just have to feign interest in order to connect and that can make all the difference. We have one particular child that needs what we call an EC (exceptional teacher) on him at all times due to his ADD/ODD/Autism and violent outbursts. I have finally found a way to connect with him without his EC  present and that has been very rewarding. On the other hand, I have a child who lives in la-la land and I can’t get through to him for anything. But no IEP in place so it’s hard to get him the help he deserves. The education system is interesting.

Enjoyed the cooking scenes outside of the school but would have liked to see what they were making :)

Special interests are honestly the best way to connect with many kids, especially those who are ND. I have a program-wide Pokémon theme this semester because I have several kids for whom Pokémon is a special interest, but also have pulled in Among Us, Minecraft, Animal Crossing, Disney movies and characters, The Avengers, Harry Potter, Star Wars, and Stranger Things at times.  Even for kids who don’t have the intense focus that a child with autism has, it still is a connection to something they like and a connection between the teacher and the students. 
 

And, one of the lessons I learned early as a music teacher was NOT to sing with full voice because the kids either found it silly or rolled their eyes the way Barbara’s Kindergartners did. One of my mentor teachers was an opera singer before she moved to teaching, and said that her students always found it hysterical when she sang with vibrato. 
 

I will say that it makes it easy to be heard across a playground :). 

Edited October 14, 2022 by dmmetler

[BAForever]

Can totally see Tariq cooking. He's a "creative" (hate that word, have heard it recently on House Hunters). Now can he follow a recipe or recreate a dish? Probably not, but I'm a good cook and improvise a lot. 

Love this show.

[Blakeston]

19 hours ago, gesundheit said:

Did Gregory get a Master's though, I assume? I don't remember a ton of details from last season but I remember he'd said that was the educational track he'd been on in school, so I was assuming Master's in Educational Leadership or something?

Yes, Gregory said he had a masters in something along the lines of education administration (I don't remember the exact term).

Speaking of which, I have a hard time believing that degree would be enough to get him a principal's job without additional experience in education, but from what we've been told he would be principal if Ava hadn't blackmailed the superintendent.

[rollacoaster]

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

I find it ironic that last season, Gregory was all about wanting to be principal. But when he is faced with having to do a task that is the principal's job, he whines about it. When in fact, if he was in the principal position as he wanted to be, he would have to discipline children anyway, so he really shouldn't have such a resistance to doing that part of the job. It's just a learning opportunity for the time when he does become a principal.

I think that Gregory just wanted Ava to do her job. 

[Harvey]

1 hour ago, rollacoaster said:

I think that Gregory just wanted Ava to do her job. 

It's silly of him to expect her to do that (he did meet her before). And also if he wants to be principal he should have no problem with doing tasks that are categorized into the principal's area of responsibilites, specially when a kid causes as much distruption as this one did.

[possibilities]

I'd have liked to see what Janine thought Gregory should be doing instead of sending the kid to Ava. She started to suggest there were other ways, but he had lost patience by then and didn't want to hear it.

[Black Knight]

Yeah, I wonder too. After all, Janine had to deal with a disruptive kid last season, although Courtney was disruptive in a different way for a different reason. Also, that conversation was rather similar to when Melissa was trying to tell Janine about Courtney and Janine didn't want to listen.

[possibilities]

I just really want Janine to get a win on occasion, due to her own competence, and not because someone else takes pity on her.

[DearEvette]

The little details in this show you miss because things go by so Fast and Furious (you'll see what I did there...)

The picture that Janine notices on Melissa's wall and she says "is that...?' And Melissa says dismissively 'Yeah, it's my cousin Vinny' well 'Vinny' is Vin Diesel. 

When Janine is making her lunch in the break room and Melissa is appalled, the container Janine is making is Ramen noodles.  But they aren't Top Ramen, they are 'Middle Ramen'.

Also someone on twitter pointed out that when Gregory is leaving for the day and his coat is draped over his arm, it is very precisely folded, almost militarily straight, not just casually draped.

And this one was my favorite:

[Crashcourse]

17 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

The little details in this show you miss because things go by so Fast and Furious (you'll see what I did there...)

And that's my only nitpick with this show.  I do wish they'd slow things down so that we don't miss some things.  

[Black Knight]

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

The picture that Janine notices on Melissa's wall and she says "is that...?' And Melissa says dismissively 'Yeah, it's my cousin Vinny' well 'Vinny' is Vin Diesel. 

And also, that it's the title of one of the greatest comedies ever! So the joke works in two ways.

[kathyk24]

12 hours ago, possibilities said:

I just really want Janine to get a win on occasion, due to her own competence, and not because someone else takes pity on her.

I agree I don't like trying to rehabilitate Tariq. In Zoo Balloon he bragged about letting Janine pay for everything now he contributed to the household it doesn't make sense.

[kitkat343]

On 10/13/2022 at 7:51 PM, Night Cheese said:

That's a great point, I can see that too. I really like how they've given Tariq some nuance. When they first introduced him I thought "of courrrrrse Janine's got a deadbeat boyfriend who drives her car without paying for gas and happily eats her breakfast and wakes up at noon." But despite not being right for Janine now that they're not teenagers anymore, he's not a totally bad guy. They could have gone that route, but they didn't and that was a pleasant surprise. He's going to make a good partner to someone one day. Most likely a partner that doesn't need a 50/50 relationship, but will be happy with an 80/20, but he'll find love with someone. As will Janine.

I think they really nailed Tariq in the zoo episode last season.  At first, him singing to the kids and having them sing back just seemed like a playful, fun exchange but he was the first chaperone to notice when a kid went missing.  He confirmed the child was missing by having the kids sing back to him and he realized  they were down a bass).  Of course, he also expected Janine to drop her career and life to follow him to NYC without even discussing it with her (or figuring out how on earth they would pay for rent in NYC) so that also captured his personality pretty well.

[LydiaMoon1]

There was so much to love about this episode. I think this was the best one yet.

Show highlights (these may be out of order, plus there were so many!):

• The babies were tired of Barbara's extended birthday serenade, ya hear me? By the time she was on the third stanza, that kid was like, 'can I just eat my cake?'.  I hollered.
• Janine had to learn how to cook from her play cousin, Meechie the Convict? Dayum shame.
• Not Jacob inviting himself? Lordt.
• Y'all in a fight? Looks like y'all in a fight.
• Janine didn't even get a middle name? We have GOT to meet her negligent mother soon. I want to see who turned her into the needy mess that she is.
• It's cute that Gregory thinks he's well-adjusted. The same man who did situps while eating a boiled chicken sandwich in his car.
• SHAME!
• My Cousin Vinnie.
• Do I know you, Bilbo Baggins?
• Janine stay doing the most. Mind your business, Janine. Mind yo' bidness!!
• Are you trying to %*&#@%! poison me?
• Now YOU KNOW, he don't know!
• No, Melissa didn't wear a wedding dress to Krista Marie's wedding? Whoo, boy! These two have always been a mess.
• Actually, ALL of the pictures of Melissa's "happy" memories with Krista Marie.
• Lt. Colonel, Father, Sir? Yikes!
• etc, etc, etc.-Almost every line of this episode was a highlight.

This episode was an instant classic. I watched it several times (and will probably watch it several more). LOVED IT!

Edited October 18, 2022 by LydiaMoon1

[possibilities]

Jacob is needy sometimes but he also gets a win fairly often. Janine they have really been leaning more and more into her being a complete mess. It bothers me. They started out with Jacob being that way but then corrected it for more balance. I want them to have some balance with Janine, too.

[Black Knight]

Since Quinta Brunson's also the showrunner, I imagine she's trying to avoid falling into the trap of making her own character a Mary Sue. It's also probably funnier for her to play, and it offers her more of a character progression should the show (hopefully) go many seasons.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Stretch a budget like a big-headed baby stretches a--😯

Why did Jacob make a wine blend sound like something cheap and unpleasant? Seems like he just bought some bad wine period.

I didn't realize white onions were problematic. Or is that just a Melissa thing?

I think Ava had a slight point about not wanting to kick a kid when they're down but that assumes all kids have a sense of shame. What about the ones like Micah who are too self-involved to notice others aren't enjoying their disruptive antics?

Nana Schemmenti's turning over in her urn. Must be a pretty big urn, hah hah.

So, according to Mr. Johnson, the way to discipline kids is to talk like Darth Vader. Good to know. 😉

[JAYJAY1979]

Janine is the weak link..shame she's played by the creator.

[cinsays]

On 10/14/2022 at 6:59 PM, possibilities said:

I'd have liked to see what Janine thought Gregory should be doing instead of sending the kid to Ava. She started to suggest there were other ways, but he had lost patience by then and didn't want to hear it.

well, since Ava doesn't seem to care at all about doing her job, why would anyone think she would have a good solution to dealing with the trouble maker?  I love everything about this show but i continue to really dislike Ava.

[possibilities]

My assumption is that Janine did have some ideas, that she thought going to Ava was a mistake. We've seen her classroom runs well, and she's had insights for Gregory before, like when he didn't understand the drawings his students were giving him. But we never got to hear what she thought, even once Gregory realized Ava wasn't the right solution.

[Bookish Jen]

On 10/12/2022 at 8:19 PM, rollacoaster said:

Ahhhhhh ha haaaaa! 

Not the janitor shaming Gregory like he Cersei Lannister!

That was my favorite part of the show!

[rollacoaster]

1 hour ago, Bookish Jen said:

On 10/12/2022 at 8:19 PM, rollacoaster said:

Ahhhhhh ha haaaaa! 

Not the janitor shaming Gregory like he Cersei Lannister!

That was my favorite part of the show!

I love these Easter Eggs!

[love2lovebadtv]

On 10/13/2022 at 7:26 PM, Crashcourse said:

Since Tariq was such a natural with the kids, I can believe he'd be a good cook.  I could see him being a stay-at-home dad and enjoying it. 

Yes, Tariq just seems so adaptable to me. And I've always thought of cooking as one of those life skills that people are taught and it doesn't mean it's a hobby or interest for them. They just have to do it. Jeanine, on the other hand, doesn't seem to have a lot of coping skills. It's really interesting the way the show goes into losing it after her breakup. 

[limestation]

I know she would be fired in real life for her whole attitude towards her job, but on this show, Ava is hilarious!!!! Sorry but I just love her character on the show, which is a nod to the actress. This woman should be loathsome but damn!!! She cracks me up!!

[SmithW6079]

On 10/13/2022 at 1:50 PM, DearEvette said:

Does anyone know if you have to have a Master's degree to teach in PA?  In New York  I believe in order get permanent certification you need a Master's degree within 5 years of getting your initial (BA) certification.

And in Florida, I don't think you need to have even graduated high school now.

On 10/13/2022 at 8:11 PM, Height-Nonchalance said:

Alright, big deal, it should have been "my brother and me," or better, "me and my brother,"

It should be "my brother and me," not "me and my brother." The first person pronoun comes last.

I liked how everyone "oohed" when Gregory got sent to the principal's office. Even Barbara got in on the act. And the janitor's "Shame! Shame!" was hilarious. 

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

Currently, you do not need a Masters to teach in Pennsylvania. I’m in a teaching certification program, and it’s a Bachelors. 

[lucindabelle]

Some of this episode made me laugh but a lot of it bugged me.

as an ELA teacher I too cringed at “taught my sister and I.” It’s not a way that ELA teachers speak. Ever. The show writers are in the business of writing good dialogue- and that was bad.

um mr Eddie? CLASSROOM MANAGEMENT IS YOUR JOB. Don’t know why he thinks it is not. And who was watching your class when you went to get Janine?

it’s fortunate that the kid had a “theme” of Bluey. Some class clowns do not. I have one right now- a ninth grader- he literally squawks, shouts out, talks, filibusters, walks around the room, sings Kara 4 Kids theme. 
 

I have had him removed from classroom a few times, called home, enlisted help. It’s a work in progress.

but the notion that teaching does not involve management is just, simply, not true.

[dmmetler]

I assume that the kid isn't a class clown,but a ND kid with a special interest. If you can connect with those interests, you're golden-and it's a lot easier when that interest is, say Bluey, or Pokemon, or anything else that peers also generally like vs something like computer OS versions. A lot of kids with autism can function academically, but struggle socially, and getting such a child referred and actually assessed is often really hard for teachers, especially in 1st grade.  If so, doing a referral to the office is often helpful in providing a paper trail. I have written referrals with a note to that effect-that I didn't need the principal or counselor to intervene, but that I knew I needed to do those steps to actually get a kid evaluated because while they could get by in elementary school where classes moved together, they were going to get lost in middle school-probably literally. 

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

On 1/4/2023 at 10:23 AM, dmmetler said:

I assume that the kid isn't a class clown,but a ND kid with a special interest. If you can connect with those interests, you're golden-and it's a lot easier when that interest is, say Bluey, or Pokemon, or anything else that peers also generally like vs something like computer OS versions. A lot of kids with autism can function academically, but struggle socially, and getting such a child referred and actually assessed is often really hard for teachers, especially in 1st grade.  If so, doing a referral to the office is often helpful in providing a paper trail. I have written referrals with a note to that effect-that I didn't need the principal or counselor to intervene, but that I knew I needed to do those steps to actually get a kid evaluated because while they could get by in elementary school where classes moved together, they were going to get lost in middle school-probably literally. 

Could be ND, could just as easily be the baby of the class and that was just where he was developmentally. Milestones are huge at that age. Which is why getting a solid assessment that young is so hard.