S15.E14: No Hug For You

[Jax7917]

11 hours ago, Kiss my mutt said:

Miguel is so hot and cold, exacting and withholding. Lindy is a lot, but I can relate to how she’s feeling.  

This!! 

I see a lot of people including the experts saying Lindy needs to chill and she's too much... and I do admit she has a whiny, annoying voice. But Miguel is such a relationship buzz kill. He is very negative when it comes to talking about decision day or after. He always has to say " well, I don't know what's gonna happen it's too soon to tell " or " When Lindy says or does this or that it turns me off and I don't know if I can live like that" etc. If I was the one married to him i'd be annoyed too because she's right, it does seem like he is willing to run the second things aren't rainbows and butterflies. In those types of relationships, you always feel like you have to be perfect or the person will leave you.

Just realized I didn't see this newest episode yet so I don't know what happened between them now but it's just what I saw in previous episodes that i'm referring to. 

Edited October 6, 2022 by Jax7917

[Starlight925]

Miguel would be better suited for a quiet, calm girl who listens to him, is agreeable, but who defers to him.

Lindy would be better suited for someone who just accepts her as is, and thinks her "look, a bird-nesses" are charming.

They are not suited for each other.

Lindy will walk on eggshells forever, as Miguel lords threats of ending the marriage over any time she "steps out of line".

Lindy is annoying.  To me, at least.  But to some guy out there, she'll be the most adorable person ever.  Not to Miguel.

Miguel has a small lane of what he finds acceptable, and once out of that lane, he threatens to leave.  I'd hate to see him as a father.

My sister is a Lindy.  "Look, a bird".  It's impossible to have a conversation with her.  She's married, 20+ years, to someone even-keeled, steady, and who finds her adorable.  Lindy needs to find that guy.  Because my sister, like Lindy, is also adorable, funny, creative, and in general, just a good-hearted person.  Yes, she has anger triggers; don't we all?  But her husband adores her.  That guy is out there for Lindy, once this mess is all over.

[kristen111]

11 hours ago, Racj82 said:

There is no such thing. If it's something you enjoy sharing, it is what it is. Some women, as I've heard or been told, can't even reach orgasm without them. That may actually be a mental block but it's a real thing.

Come on .. these people don’t even know each other yet.  What’s it been, four weeks?  Some just started having sex, like Justin and Alexa.  What you’re talking about is couples that have been together more than a few weeks.  How do they know what they like?  Statia is really pushing it with the toys.  Let’s see how that goes.

[kristen111]

What a good weekend for Krysten and Mitch.  I hope they make it, he gets a better job, and she keeps her ground.  At least stay together awhile longer to figure things out.

[Mr. Miner]

I'm going to go ahead and assume Justin cried after he got the bra off and the marriage was consummated.

[cinsays]

48 minutes ago, Starlight925 said:

Miguel would be better suited for a quiet, calm girl who listens to him, is agreeable, but who defers to him.

Lindy would be better suited for someone who just accepts her as is, and thinks her "look, a bird-nesses" are charming.

I agree that Miguel needs someone who actually listens to him, but I think we all want that.  It just doesn't seem like there's any depth to her in relating to him.  

Your brother-in-law got to know your sister and found other things about her that he loved and grew to love her quirkiness as well, but I'm guessing that wasn't the main draw.  And she probably wasn't the space cadet this gal is.

They just don't belong together.

[Yeah No]

59 minutes ago, Jax7917 said:

This!! 

I see a lot of people including the experts saying Lindy needs to chill and she's too much... and I do admit she has a whiny, annoying voice. But Miguel is such a relationship buzz kill. He is very negative when it comes to talking about decision day or after. He always has to say " well, I don't know what's gonna happen it's too soon to tell " or " When Lindy says or does this or that it turns me off and I don't know if I can live like that" etc. If I was the one married to him i'd be annoyed too because she's right, it does seem like he is willing to run the second things aren't rainbows and butterflies. In those types of relationships, you always feel like you have to be perfect or the person will leave you.

And yet Miguel was the one accusing Lindy of being negative all the time last week.  I couldn't believe that.  She is an eternal optimist compared to him.

[Yeah No]

12 hours ago, Racj82 said:

Also Miguel, time and place. At Lindy's prom where you wanted to give her a special night? My God man, it wasn't that serious.

I agree!  My mother would call Miguel someone that gives with one hand but takes away with the other.  He did something nice for her but then just crapped all over it because he was in a bad mood.  He displaces his negative emotions on her when she doesn't deserve it and doesn't even care about time and place for it.  Talk about not reading the room!  He's the one projecting that onto her.  That's what his biggest transgression was.  He did realize it later, but too late, damage done.

Edited October 6, 2022 by Yeah No

[Starlight925]

5 minutes ago, cinsays said:

I agree that Miguel needs someone who actually listens to him, but I think we all want that.  It just doesn't seem like there's any depth to her in relating to him.  

Your brother-in-law got to know your sister and found other things about her that he loved and grew to love her quirkiness as well, but I'm guessing that wasn't the main draw.  And she probably wasn't the space cadet this gal is.

They just don't belong together.

Lol, you'd be surprised.  The quirkiness was from the minute they met, and we all were like.....wait, how is this great, awesome guy dealing with this?  It was her quirkiness that drew him to her, from date one.  And yes, my sister is more of a space cadet, if that's possible.  He thinks it's hilarious and cute.  I digress.....

But this is about Lindy and Miguel, and no, they just don't belong together.

Lindy exhibits a lot of insecurity.  When you pair one person's insecurity with another person's threats of leaving, it's an explosion.

[Racj82]

5 hours ago, kristen111 said:

Come on .. these people don’t even know each other yet.  What’s it been, four weeks?  Some just started having sex, like Justin and Alexa.  What you’re talking about is couples that have been together more than a few weeks.  How do they know what they like?  Statia is really pushing it with the toys.  Let’s see how that goes.

This is how you see it. Everyone isn't you. People move at their own speed with lots of things. For some people, they literally don't have sex without some kind of toy. For some, it's not this big thing. Toys help. They aide into the enjoyment of it all. So, they just use them regularly. It's just something they do.

Feel how you want to feel but there is no timeline on when or not to do anything. That's up to individuals.

Edited October 6, 2022 by Racj82

[kristen111]

I think Production has a hand in everything they do and say.  One week it’s Mitch and Krysten having trouble.  The next is Miguel and Lindy.  I’m waiting for Statia and Nate’s turn, and the others.

[kristen111]

6 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

This is how you see it. Everyone isn't you. People move at their own speed with lots of things. For some people, they literally don't have sex without some kind of toy. For some, it's not this big thing. Toys help. They aide into the enjoyment of it all. So, they just them regularly. It's just something they do.

Feel how you want to feel but there is timeline on when or not to do anything. That's up to individuals.

Yes, and everyone isn’t you either.  

[Yeah No]

20 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

This is how you see it. Everyone isn't you. People move at their own speed with lots of things. For some people, they literally don't have sex without some kind of toy. For some, it's not this big thing. Toys help. They aide into the enjoyment of it all. So, they just them regularly. It's just something they do.

Feel how you want to feel but there is timeline on when or not to do anything. That's up to individuals.

I got the feeling Nate was going along with it good naturedly but it was not really his preference to be playing with that toy on national TV.  I personally have no problem with toys but some things should remain private if only because some of us don't want to see that displayed so openly on TV.  I had no problem with the swing, though.  I think there's definitely a time and place for vibrating panties, but not here and not now.  I personally think it was another gimmick foist upon them by production and they were just having fun with it.

[sara416]

I know we didn't see everything, but it really isn't that hard to make a blanket statment to everyone, not just your wife, and say "Listen, I've been working a lot, production is a lot, and I don't have the mental bandwidth to do everything with a smile on my face right now so give me some grace please". Most people would respect that and Miguel just needed to communicate that and people wouldn't have been thinking he was an ass for no reason. 

I have to give a ton of credit to Mitch for laughing during Krysten's impersonation of him, as well as to her for letting him know he could tell her if she goes to far. That scene was really charming to watch him have a sense of humor about himself for once. I think he takes himself too seriously much of the time and that was so good to see. 

[Lindz]

15 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

Krysten and Stacia look nice in their prom dresses.

Whoa.  I just saw Krysten's fugly black shoes.  Points deducted. 🤣

Shoes? How about the black bra sticking out??? VERY BAD LOOK! 😬😬

[kristen111]

10 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

Miguel berated Lindy on at least  these occasions at the retreat: 

in the room before the Prom

At the prom

in the room after the prom( interrupted by Nate and Stacia) 

the next day on the carriage ride outing 

Before  dinner on the balcony 

in the bedroom or bathroom ( filmed through the door) 

the next day at the dodge ball game because she aimed at him ( like any spouse would in the spirit of the game) 

Nothing she did deserved the amount of grief he was giving her 

Yes, and it was very obvious he was told to do those things.  It was too much bashing at once, all of a sudden.

[Lindz]

WTF was wrong with Miguel?!! Who chooses to be in a bad mood? I just don't get it. & He knows he's taking it out on her & keeps doing it? WTF?!! It's like they both just wanted to say stuff, but resolve nothing. It shouldn't have been that damn complicated. If he didn't want to take the pic, say he'll do it later, half-assin won't do. Her reaction was understandable, but she could've reacted better. She wouldn't own that she was upset because he had a problem with her tone so she kept saying it was a joke. That was problematic, she should've just owned it. He didn't exactly make it a safe space for her to own it though. Bad on him. The 2nd pic incident was stupid. WTF was his problem then? She avoided his moody azz altogether & asked a producer. 🤣 & He managed to have a problem anyway. That was ridiculous. WTF did he want?! That's what she should ask. They shouldn't have split the couples for the game. Yet again, Miguel found a problem. He's a mess. She was rude af interrupting him during the carriage ride though. He should've addressed it the 1st time. One of them should've decided to enjoy the ride & not talk. She wasn't paying attention to his cringey poems anyway. Their cycle is he chastises her until she cries and walks away. Sad to see.

[kristen111]

54 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I got the feeling Nate was going along with it good naturedly but it was not really his preference to be playing with that toy on national TV.  I personally have no problem with toys but some things should remain private if only because some of us don't want to see that displayed so openly on TV.  I had no problem with the swing, though.  I think there's definitely a time and place for vibrating panties, but not here and not now.  I personally think it was another gimmick foist upon them by production and they were just having fun with it.

Exactly what I was trying to say.  I think Statia was probably told to be the one with the sex toys.  It got to be too much and don’t think Nate was in favor.  A bit much on the panties imo.

[Lindz]

Justin seriously talked about waiting being a good thing when he tried multiple times early on??? Ya. Ok. & What was their chat during the wine date? She was making it out to be a big deal & he was downplaying the hell out of it. Then she basically said it wasn't good to the girls. Huhhhh???

[geej]

THe Panties: I found it so funny. I was falling out laughing. Was it  cringy ? No doubt. But that is partly what I found so funny. Her facial expressions say so much and this time  was no exception. I wondered before I started reading here if anyone of us would find it funny as I did. I expected the understandable criticism, but am a bit surprised no one was laughing with me, certainly not as hard as i was.

[Lindz]

😒😒Sex stuff should be kept to the sex episode. 😵‍💫😬 Stacia's doing too much. She wanted the others at the dinner to know. For what purpose? I'm so over it. 😒😒

Edited October 6, 2022 by Lindz

[Retired at last]

First - the clothes: what the hell was Krysten wearing? The dress was fine, but NOT with the black bra and those clumpy shoes. Alexis was Alexis - always tacky. But, I did like her orange shoes. Stacia and Nate were classy, as always. Good Lord - that dress Miguel (or production) picked for Lindy was the most unflattering mess she has ever been in. I know she dresses strangely, but in that dress, we could see exactly what she tries to hide with her regular "style."

I know it is not the popular opinion, but I am totally Team Miguel. Lindy is an immature, pouty child, most likely dealing with attention deficit issues. All of her, "I'm trying," is enough. Yes, she is totally insecure about him leaving, but he was right about the nonsense with the picture (again, most likely production driven). 

For some reason, the women's voices were all driving me crazy. Krysten (who I usually like), was completely obnoxious and I didn't like her one bit. And, she can't dance, despite what she thinks. I hate that she keeps playing like there is a chance for their relationship, and then starts yelling stuff. They are done, which is fine. I still don't understand half of what Alexis says, but yippee - they had sex. Whatever. I didn't appreciate (production driven) visit with sex toys for Miguel and Lindy. And that dinner trick of not being able to stop the remote was disgusting and demeaning.

I saw most of the day trips, but I fell asleep before the show was over. And I missed the afterparty. And I don't care. All I want to see is the Reunion show, but I am more interested in seeing who is together NOW, if any of them.

[kristen111]

1 hour ago, Yeah No said:

I got the feeling Nate was going along with it good naturedly but it was not really his preference to be playing with that toy on national TV.  I personally have no problem with toys but some things should remain private if only because some of us don't want to see that displayed so openly on TV.  I had no problem with the swing, though.  I think there's definitely a time and place for vibrating panties, but not here and not now.  I personally think it was another gimmick foist upon them by production and they were just having fun with it.

I agree.  There’s a time and place.  I mean what’s next?

[kristen111]

32 minutes ago, Retired at last said:

First - the clothes: what the hell was Krysten wearing? The dress was fine, but NOT with the black bra and those clumpy shoes. Alexis was Alexis - always tacky. But, I did like her orange shoes. Stacia and Nate were classy, as always. Good Lord - that dress Miguel (or production) picked for Lindy was the most unflattering mess she has ever been in. I know she dresses strangely, but in that dress, we could see exactly what she tries to hide with her regular "style."

I know it is not the popular opinion, but I am totally Team Miguel. Lindy is an immature, pouty child, most likely dealing with attention deficit issues. All of her, "I'm trying," is enough. Yes, she is totally insecure about him leaving, but he was right about the nonsense with the picture (again, most likely production driven). 

For some reason, the women's voices were all driving me crazy. Krysten (who I usually like), was completely obnoxious and I didn't like her one bit. And, she can't dance, despite what she thinks. I hate that she keeps playing like there is a chance for their relationship, and then starts yelling stuff. They are done, which is fine. I still don't understand half of what Alexis says, but yippee - they had sex. Whatever. I didn't appreciate (production driven) visit with sex toys for Miguel and Lindy. And that dinner trick of not being able to stop the remote was disgusting and demeaning.

I saw most of the day trips, but I fell asleep before the show was over. And I missed the afterparty. And I don't care. All I want to see is the Reunion show, but I am more interested in seeing who is together NOW, if any of them.

Great post !!!!   Spot on.  After Party is a waste.  I still don’t know what Alexa is saying either.  Production took over the show.

[glitterpussy]

My take on Miguel and Lindy...he hates, absolutely HATES her.  I can see it in his dead-eyed stare. But he doesn't want to be the "bad guy" so he's trying to play along until DD.  He's cracking though, that's what we saw in this epi.

I'm thinking the same with Krysten and Mitch, to a lesser degree....she's a no, but will be kind and play it out. Mitch is an absolute child, with zero emotional maturity and she's too good for him and knows it.

Edited: Miguel  and Lindy, not Mitch. They're both terrible 🤣

Edited October 6, 2022 by glitterpussy

[Lindz]

Miguel & Lindy were voted most likely to stay married & they're crashing & burning so fast! 🤣🤣 That leaves Nate & Stacia & their time is coming. 😬

[mythoughtis]

2 minutes ago, glitterpussy said:

My take on Mitch and Lindy...he hates, absolutely HATES her.  I can see it in his dead-eyed stare. But he doesn't want to be the "bad guy" so he's trying to play along until DD.  He's cracking though, that's what we saw in this epi.

I'm thinking the same with Krysten and Mitch, to a lesser degree....she's a no, but will be kind and play it out. Mitch is an absolute child, with zero emotional maturity and she's too good for him and knows it.

I’m sort of sure that you are right about Miguel…. Which means I find him especially cruel because he keeps telling Lindy ( and everyone else) that he loves, loves, loves her.   Gaslighting anyone, but especially someone like Lindy, is deeply damaging to the psyche.  It’s not entertainment and there’s no reason to do it.  Just as there was no reason to damage poor Binh either. 
There is plenty of drama available in the show without that.  Look at Nate - he’s managed to avoid the I Love You phrase. 

[Racj82]

3 hours ago, kristen111 said:

Yes, and everyone isn’t you either.  

What is the point of this statement? You are saying when or not people should be using toys. I said that's up to actual people decide. I've had very minimal use with toys and it's not my thing. I just don't also judge others for using them and on what time frame. Nate and Stacia have fun with toys. I don't care. I don't think it's too much anything. To each their own.

ETA no I don't think these conflicts are written by production. Specifically it's not like these issues aren't persistent the whole time. Just like regular people, there are ups and downs. I can believe production decides in editing which issues to prop up and also switch some scenes around. But, that's about it.

Edited October 6, 2022 by Racj82

[Mr. Miner]

I'm still pissed that Krysten felt like she had to apologize to Mitch the Turd for "Poolgate".

Lindy lost me when she wanted on Miguel's insurance two weeks into this "experiment".

[Lindz]

Krysten's proud to be most likely to get multiple divorces???? Um. Ok. That was meant to hurt Mitch & it did. I wonder if he'll address it. He's scared to. That was stupid of him to say he refused to do what "the puppet" was expected to do. It's not unreasonable to expect him to say nice things about his wife when asked about his feelings. What's so wrong with that?! WTF is his problem?! It's bizarre! Why can't Krysten just ASK what he thinks & feels about her?!! Resenting him because he gives no validation or reassurance ain't working!

[Madding crowd]

17 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

I’m sort of sure that you are right about Miguel…. Which means I find him especially cruel because he keeps telling Lindy ( and everyone else) that he loves, loves, loves her.   Gaslighting anyone, but especially someone like Lindy, is deeply damaging to the psyche.  It’s not entertainment and there’s no reason to do it.  Just as there was no reason to damage poor Binh either. 
There is plenty of drama available in the show without that.  Look at Nate - he’s managed to avoid the I Love You phrase. 

He was the first one to say I love you to Lindy and he keeps saying he loves her, more than she does. I admit I don’t understand the need for people to keep saying “you disrespected me” to their spouse. Miguel doesn’t own Lindy and she has the right to ask for a damn picture without being accused of disrespect. I suspect Miguel is very hard to get along with and his friends see him in limited circumstances like his cosplay stuff. Lindy has her issues too but she is trying hard to recover from her Ultra religious upbringing where she may never have been allowed to figure out if she has attention problems or if she just got in the habit of distracting herself during hard times. 

[bichonblitz]

Miguel has no personality, he is no fun. He is boring and blah.  Lindy has too much personality and is childish. Not a good match. 

I don't think any of the other guys care for Alexis. They see the way she treats Justin and they don't like it. They also firmly believe she broke up Morgan and Binh. The fact that she was laughing about that makes her a deplorable person. 

Krystin was going overboard at the retreat trying to be the funny good time girl. 

[Lindz]

Oh man. The "bald" cap on Krysten... 😬😬 CRAZY! 🤣 That should've been an activity. Be their spouse. Krysten sounds like she enjoys hanging with the group more than her husband. Lindy seems to feel the same after Miguel's antics.

[thatsall]

18 hours ago, Yeah No said:

An INTJ's weakest personality function is feeling while an INFP's dominant function is feeling.  The two are like oil and water together.  They admire what the other has that they don't and so are attracted to it, but in the end the two fundamentally clash in the way they approach just about everything.  Feeling types tend to be "people people" while INTJs are primarily not and like to remain for the most part on their own.  They generally aren't all that comfortable in animated social situations like this retreat except with a few close friends who don't annoy them in any way and who they feel comfortable around.   They also are not at all able to let go and be spontaneous in the moment.  They don't like their routine disturbed and too many demands placed on them to be flexible about anything.  Honestly at times I have felt that INTJs can be "sticks in the mud".  They want everything settled and decided and not much left open ended to be decided just whenever.  It's hard for them to let their hair down and just go with the flow as their environment changes.  Meanwhile Lindy loves to live with things open ended, flexible and subject to change at any given moment.  She loves letting herself go with the flow and enjoys the process of life, not just the destination.  Expressing her emotions is at the core of who she is. 

As an INTJ, I agree with many of these observations, @Yeah No. I'm even willing to cop to being a "stick in the mud" because of my aversion to most spontaneity and unfortunate ease of being annoyed by specific sensory input and behaviors. It does seem that you've painted Lindy's FP-ness as more generally desirable (as compared to my/Miguel's TJ-ness), and that may be the way FPs are perceived by most; but what really matters here is how TJ Miguel perceives her, and I understand how her vacillating between extremes and her evident cluelessness would be off-putting and raise questions about the long-term stability and satisfaction of that relationship. Not to mention, from what we're hearing, it was Miguel doing the majority of the suffering when they had Migindy - that would certainly give me pause on the parenting front. All this said, we INTJs do have a tendency to be a**holes about our truth when annoyed (though the a**holery is often labeled that because others are unable or unwilling to hear even basic facts), and that gets no one anywhere. As you've observed, INTJ/INFP is generally a poor match for any close relationship. Miguel's top (not only) priority is likely someone who will meet him where he is at intellectually and temperamentally, and Lindy's priority is likely someone who will accept her, warts and all. Those are huge asks on both sides, for these partners.

Edited October 6, 2022 by thatsall

[Empress1]

40 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

I don't think any of the other guys care for Alexis. They see the way she treats Justin and they don't like it. They also firmly believe she broke up Morgan and Binh.

Nate lit her UP. I don’t know if all the guys think that but he sure does!

[Racj82]

6 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

Nate lit her UP. I don’t know if all the guys think that but he sure does!

Watch that hug between Nate and Alexis when Nate and Stacia first arive. They clearly don't like each other. It's funny. I don't think Nate really likes Justin or Alexis but for completely different reasons.

[Boo Boo]

While I did feel sorry in Lindy, who annoys me the most out of this cast, in this episode, I can't help but wonder if Miguel wants to love her bc she's cute and seems sweet but is also as annoyed by her as some of us are.  Maybe the photo was just an excuse to pretty much blow up on her?

I also think she's made too big of a deal over "oh you don't want to see an outburst" that it puts Miguel on edge.  I can't tell if she's proud of her outbursts, if she's scared that it will push people away so she's giving fair warning, or because she's just sooooo darling that having scary outbursts just makes her not like all the other girls!  Whatever the case, the way she seems to talk about it a lot is weird.

Miguel, however, is no prize.  I can't find one thing that I find endearing, cute about him.  

Edited October 7, 2022 by Boo Boo

[Crashcourse]

While I can certainly understand Krysten's desire to get back at Mitch for finding her unattractive, I found her loud, obnoxious "joking" to be over the top.  At least Mitch took it well and in good humor.

And bless her heart, girlfriend cannot dance. 

[glitterpussy]

3 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I suspect Miguel is very hard to get along with and his friends see him in limited circumstances like his cosplay stuff.

I got the impression that his friends are well aware of how shitty he is at relationships😂  I think you're right on  that he said ILY too fast when he was all horny, and he's regretting that now that he's realized he can't stand her and he's gonna look bad.

And I forgot to mention the poems...my GOD. Talk about read the room Miguel. Your poems are terrible and no one wants to hear them especially on a date FFS! "Oh hey listen here's a poem I wrote about ME!" Get the fuck outta here, you ain't Emily Dickinson.

[buttersister]

LOL! First week I not only didn't watch, but forgot to record. Thanks for the catch up. See you at the reunion.

[Lindz]

Alexis is the gossip, but Justin told Stacia they consummated their marriage who then told Nate. They all blab. Alexis is malicious tho.

[seacliffsal]

All of them (the couples) are a mess but Nate and Stacia appear to be a bit less so.  

Lindy consistently hides behind "but that's my personality" as if there is nothing she can do.  It so bothers me when in the middle of sharing something the person with whom I am speaking just starts talking about something else (and I'm not long-winded and it is usually in response to something the other person said/asked).  I will just stop and not restate what I was saying.  I find it incredibly rude and really hurtful as if what I have to say isn't important.  So, when Miguel arranged a carriage ride and was sharing a poem he wrote and she started pointing out all of the wildlife, I was right there with him.  If she didn't want to hear a poem, maybe say 'no' when asked and then add something like 'I just want to enjoy the experience of this ride with you.'  When they were arguing about it she kept stating that then she could never say anything without making him mad, and that wasn't it at all.  Just stop interrupting.  Wait until he is done with his poem, then talk about the bunnies.  Am I fully on Miguel's side?  No.  They both need to work on themselves.  And, like the majority of people on this show (in every season), they want the other person to change to meet their needs.  Also, just because some of us may not present as emotional doesn't mean we aren't.  It just means we handle/deal with emotions differently than others.  Compromise is hard.  Changing habits is hard.  Relationships are hard.

I think Krysten can't stand Mitch as she seems to be mocking and critical of him.  There are many things to be critical of (see my numerous posts in all of the episode threads...) but she really seems to have a meanness behind many of her comments that wasn't there before.

Alexis?  She is willing to destroy marriages and other people's self-confidence without any responsibility or concern.  I really hope she doesn't get the social media fame that I think she is seeking by being on this show.

The "experts" should be providing more support for these participants.  My heart is with Binh as he was just devastated last week, and I think several more could really use some help.

Edited October 7, 2022 by seacliffsal
just to add another thought

[Blissfool]

Ah! There's the Miguel I knew was lurking behind a facade. It became too hard to hide his condescending asshole self.

8 hours ago, Mr. Miner said:

Lindy lost me when she wanted on Miguel's insurance two weeks into this "experiment".

Miguel lost me at the reception when he told her he didn't have to tell her she looked pretty.

5 hours ago, Boo Boo said:

 Miguel wants to love her bc she's cute and seems sweet but is also as annoyed by her as some of us are. 

I want to love Miguel because he's cute, successful, and lindy seems to really like him, but NO!

1 hour ago, seacliffsal said:

I think Krysten can't stand Mitch as she seems to be mocking and critical of him.  There are many things to be critical of (see my numerous posts in all of the episode threads...) but she really seems to have a meanness behind many of her comments that wasn't there before.

I agree. And she gets really brave when she has an audience. 

[Chalby]

On 10/5/2022 at 6:19 PM, kristen111 said:

Lindy feels like she’s filtering herself?  That means she knows there’s more to her craziness.

I like Lindy a lot, and I think she's been authentic and herself this whole time. Being excitable does not make her crazy. I find she just appears younger but that makes sense given she was robbed of any normal childhood. Miguel needs to go easy on her and recognize that everything she does comes from a good place she just needs more life experiences. She needs to quit apologizing, or promising to try harder, when she is just being herself. She appreciated Miguel's comments, but he went on and on. I felt he was intentionally bringing down her mood.

2 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

But she really seems to have a meanness behind many of her comments that wasn't there before.

After watching Mitch talk to her sister about ways he could approach krysten about her looks, I would adopt a tone of meanness as well. Buh byeeee

[Chalby]

6 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

While I can certainly understand Krysten's desire to get back at Mitch for finding her unattractive, I found her loud, obnoxious "joking" to be over the top.  At least Mitch took it well and in good humor.

And bless her heart, girlfriend cannot dance. 

I feel especially bad for Krysten and Morgan because they were so invested in being married that I found they actually gave a lot of effort to the experience. Sadly their partners did not.

[Alexander Pope]

23 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I know, it bothered me that she blamed herself for the situation, but I did feel a little better when she later said she knew she didn't do anything wrong.  And I don't think she did anything wrong, despite the way he acted about it.  He doesn't get her.  And she is trying like heck to get him but I don't know that he's really capable of getting her and I even wonder if she will ever be able to get him.  They might always be enigmas to each other.  It would suck to live in a relationship like that.  They both need someone that won't clash with them at their core. 

When she was blaming herself,  I took it as a strategy, however unconscious, to exaggerate in order to make him feel bad  and stop picking on her.  Yeah No, your analysis is spot on, but Lindy can be manipulative in the way she fights.  She did a lot of "I can't do anything right, I'm always wrong," while he was meticulously going on about whatever specific incident pissed him off. Both of them are maddening, but he was worse by far than she was.

Edited October 7, 2022 by Alexander Pope

[Alexander Pope]

13 hours ago, Mr. Miner said:

I'm going to go ahead and assume Justin cried after he got the bra off and the marriage was consummated.

lolllll

he would cry even more if he heard Alexis trashing his performance to the other wives.  She is relentlessly determined to undermine him at every turn and it is so awful.  She is a mean person.

[Yeah No]

9 hours ago, thatsall said:

As an INTJ, I agree with many of these observations, @Yeah No. I'm even willing to cop to being a "stick in the mud" because of my aversion to most spontaneity and unfortunate ease of being annoyed by specific sensory input and behaviors. It does seem that you've painted Lindy's FP-ness as more generally desirable (as compared to my/Miguel's TJ-ness), and that may be the way FPs are perceived by most; but what really matters here is how TJ Miguel perceives her, and I understand how her vacillating between extremes and her evident cluelessness would be off-putting and raise questions about the long-term stability and satisfaction of that relationship. Not to mention, from what we're hearing, it was Miguel doing the majority of the suffering when they had Migindy - that would certainly give me pause on the parenting front. All this said, we INTJs do have a tendency to be a**holes about our truth when annoyed (though the a**holery is often labeled that because others are unable or unwilling to hear even basic facts), and that gets no one anywhere. As you've observed, INTJ/INFP is generally a poor match for any close relationship. Miguel's top (not only) priority is likely someone who will meet him where he is at intellectually and temperamentally, and Lindy's priority is likely someone who will accept her, warts and all. Those are huge asks on both sides, for these partners.

Thank you so much for this!  I find myself in an interesting position being an INFJ because I see both sides of the Lindy/Miguel coin.  Being a feeling type, I empathize with how his hard impersonal "T" can sting her and how enigmatic he can seem.  I also understand his point of view with her.  I too find INFPs fascinating but exasperating.  I think having a close romantic relationship with one would be a challenge for me.  That's not saying that I would rule someone out on the basis of their type, but in my experience INFPs have mostly driven me crazy in anything but limited doses.  Both Lindy and Miguel are exhibiting some of the characteristics that have driven me crazy about both their types.  Although truth be told, I have always felt more simpatico with INTJs in general than INFPs.  That's probably because of having the IN and the J in common.  Both INFJs and INTJs are dominant introverted intuitives and that's something pretty rare so it's always great to find one.  And while I love INFPs, they are too open ended, scattered, and lead around by their feelings for me (they are dominant feelers).  When I was Lindy's age I used to feel that INTJs were a little too hard-nosed for me, but as I've gotten older the ones in my age bracket and I have generally grown to meet each other in the middle as far as thinking vs. feeling goes.  Facts are now my friend and more important to me as I get older, LOL.  😉  I definitely think that maturity helps, and that if Lindy and Miguel were more mature they might be able to understand each other better and learn how to effectively communicate with each other.  But I think that's still a lot to ask of them considering how far apart on a lot of things they are from the start.

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, Alexander Pope said:

When she was blaming herself,  I took it as a strategy, however unconscious, to exaggerate in order to make him feel bad  and stop picking on her.  Yeah No, your analysis is spot on, but Lindy can be manipulative in the way she fights.  She did a lot of "I can't do anything right, I'm always wrong," while he was meticulously going on about whatever specific incident pissed him off. Both of them are maddening, but he was worse by far than she was.

You know I wondered if that wasn't her MO with the exaggerated self-blame.  It seemed too OTT to be for real.  But it was hard for me to commit to that because she didn't do it in the sarcastic tone that people usually use when they do that.  I still half believed that she was being completely sincere especially when she adds that pouty lip to it.  But yeah, you might be right.  It does have a way of really shutting down the person picking on you if you cop to what they're blaming you for.  And yeah, it is manipulative.

In this case, yeah he was far worse than she was.  It's interesting to see an INTJ in the grip of stress where they let out their emotions and it comes out cruel or just assholic.  It can seem mean and even diabolical especially to soft-inside feeling types.  Lindy actually has more of a backbone to stand up to him when he gets like that than it seems at first glance, especially if the self-blame is manipulative and not sincere.  In a strange way I actually admire her for that more than if she was accepting his judgment of her.

[Emma Snyder]

13 hours ago, Boo Boo said:

I also think she's made too big of a deal over "oh you don't want to see an outburst" that it puts Miguel on edge.  I can't tell if she thinks she's proud of her outbursts, if she's scared that it will push people away so she's giving fair warning, or because she's just sooooo darling that having scary outbursts just makes her not like all the other girls! 

This. I also think that's why every other word she utters is an f bomb.