S01.E06: The Princess And The Queen

[Meredith Quill]

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Episode Synopsis: 

Ten years later. Rhaenyra navigates Alicent’s continued speculation about her children, while Daemon and Laena weigh an offer in Pentos.

Reminder: 

This is for discussion of the TV show only, no book talk allowed - including saying "but it's different in the books". Any other spoilers (previews, media articles, etc) and HotD extras (After The Episode, Behind The Scenes, etc) should be in spoiler tags.

[LadyChaos]

Those sound effects from the birth.... I AM NOT OKAY!!!!!

That goat looked at them like: Excuse me?!?! What are you doing?

Edited September 26, 2022 by LadyChaos

[Enigma X]

I found and lost my two favorite characters on this show in one night. Damn!

[AimingforYoko]

A non-scheming, loyal hand to the king gets murdered, I've heard this tune before. By his own kin, though.

Are we supposed be on Alicent's side? Because I'm kind of...not.

[FormerMod-a1]

I did not like this episode.  First boring then annoying. :P

Firstly, why is Rhaenyra not having Daemon's babies?  They'd have silver/white hair then and they used to have great chemistry.  So their relationship not only didn't progress in these 10 years, not even in a familial way, but backtracked? But since they are not together, I have other questions.  Like why is she still having babies?  She had 2 sons before this one.  Why keep putting herself through this?  What about the tea, or other means prevention?

I know this an UPO but this Rhaenyra is not doing it for me.  She doesn't have the presence or charisma of the other actress. She's just bland. The Writing isn't helping either.  This Rhaenyra seems so weak and cowed.

It didn't help that Daemon was also so subdued.  

Oh please, Alicent.  You aren't that dumb. How could you not know you were playing with fire with Larys.

Lastly, on a shallow note, I really wish Visyris would pull his few scraggily hairs back.  

[Constantinople]

Option 1: Aegon is an exhibitionist perv

Option 2: Aegon is thoughtful enough of the castle staff not to dirty his sheets

I'm going with Option 1

[scarynikki12]

I was having Jurassic Park flashbacks from the dragon pit scene.

I hate saying something nice about Daemon but at least he didn’t have Laena butchered like Viserys did Aemma. Heartbreaking watching her beg her dragon for death and her dragon hesitating before lighting up.

[LanceM]

I hope nobody was standing on the ground underneath Aegon’ window.

[scarynikki12]

3 minutes ago, aquarian1 said:

Like why is she still having babies?  She had 2 sons before this one.  Why keep putting herself through this?  

Maybe she, like me, is confused as to how dark haired Alicent only gave birth to white haired kids and is determined to prove her Targ genes will eventually win out. That or she loves Harwin enough to want to have his babies even if they all have dark hair. I don’t know.

[peridot]

Yeah, that squelching noise of the birth and afterbirth made me cringe.  I wasn't a fan of Alicent this episode either, why demand to see a baby immediately after childbirth and make that shitty comment to Laenor?  If she knows about the affair with Harwin, then she has to know the inclinations of Laenor.  She just seems petty, self-righteous, and caught up in the small stuff.  The offer to have her daughter marry one of Rhaenarys' sons wasn't a bad offer. 

Larys is a complete psychopath!  He murdered his father and brother with no qualms!  I was expecting some loyalty to his family.  Isn't kinslaying against their gods?  Alicent should have known better to involve herself with that psycho.  Now, he's free to demand whatever he wishes from her.

Harwin seemed like a good man, he maintained a relationship with his sons and called out the unfair treatment they were getting from Cole.  It's been over 10 years, and Cole still is hung up over the affair?!  I hate that the next generation is being affected by the bullshit of their parents and a spurned lover.

Edited September 26, 2022 by peridot

[Meredith Quill]

I like all the new casting, the new Rhaenyra looks so much like the actress who played her mother, Aemma too!

Summoning a newborn baby be brought to you minutes after it's born so you can inspect it ...wow.

...also, ten years has made Cole an even bigger POS.

[scarynikki12]

1 minute ago, peridot said:

It's been over 10 years, and Cole still is hung up over the affair?!

I think Cole’s also jealous that Harwin fathered her babies rather than him.

[FormerMod-a1]

Just now, scarynikki12 said:

I think Cole’s also jealous that Harwin fathered her babies rather than him.

This I would bellieve.  But then again, he didn't want to be her whore, so...

[Jaundiced Eye]

Nothing to stop Rhaenyra and Daemon from teaming up now, I guess.

[Meredith Quill]

Just now, aquarian1 said:

This I would bellieve.  But then again, he didn't want to be her whore, so...

But he's fine with being a petty, bitchy lapdog though...🤔

[Sakura12]

So how is it that Harwin punches a member of the kings guard and gets kicked out of the watch, but Criston punches the future king consort and kills a guard of a noble house and now gets to guard the Queen? He hates Rheanyra now because he broke his honor for her and lost nothing. What a wuss he turned our to be.

And Alicent throwing around her power by making a woman who just gave birth to come to her then say she should be resting. Are we supposed to want to take her side on this? Just because she feels bad she indirectly made a deal with a guy who can easily kill his father and brother. 

Well I guess at least Leana got to make her own choice unlike poor Aemma. 

[Enigma X]

I was all ready to be Team Harwin. Damn. 

[LadyChaos]

7 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

I hate saying something nice about Daemon but at least he didn’t have Laena butchered like Viserys did Aemma. Heartbreaking watching her beg her dragon for death and her dragon hesitating before lighting up.

The fact that he shook his head no to the procedure and chose to save her over the baby....he really does care about her.

13 minutes ago, AimingforYoko said:

Are we supposed be on Alicent's side? Because I'm kind of...not.

No.

[LanceM]

18 minutes ago, AimingforYoko said:

A non-scheming, loyal hand to the king gets murdered, I've heard this tune before. By his own kin, though.

Are we supposed be on Alicent's side? Because I'm kind of...not.

You are supposed to pick whatever side you want and they are not going to help you because both sides have their share of assholes. It is the beauty of this show.

Edited September 26, 2022 by LanceM

[Clawdette]

I know all about the sexual preferences of Laenor.  But why on earth couldn’t he perform just long enough to produce an heir. One would have been enough and the rumors wouldn’t have been as rampant. In an age where you can lose your life with a finger snap I would think he and Rhaenyra would be smarter than they’ve displayed. 

[Sakura12]

5 minutes ago, SilverStormm said:

But he's fine with being a petty, bitchy lapdog though...🤔

He gets to be a member of the I hate Rheanyra club. Him and Alicent probably bitch about her all the time while Rheanyra probably gives them little thought. 

[dramachick]

I don't enjoy watching this show.

I don't care about any of the characters. 

I will try and finish the season.

Having said that . . .

Of course, Laena, the most interesting, smartest, and strongest woman so far, chose a quick death by dragon. That was a heartbreaking scene, especially showing how her poor dragon didn't want to do it.  Rest in peace, Laena. You were a bad bitch.

The way Rhaenyra is written doesn't make sense to me. So far, she appears to be driven solely by her personal wants and desires, everyone else be damned. Are we supposed to believe that she would be a good queen? I wonder if they killed off Harwin Strong to force her to focus on becoming queen rather than popping out babies for her lover. 

Aegon appears to be his father's son.

Ser Criston is now Alicent's bitch instead of Rhaenyra's whore.

Alicent and Larys are bona fied villains. Who are the heroes?

[FormerMod-a1]

It thought Aiicent would have taken a lover by now.  In fact I thought it would with Criston.  Maybe he didn't want to be her whore either. 

[Diapason Untuned]

I'm not gonna lie, I started guffawing when I saw Aegon jerking one off at the window where Tommen died. I'm deff going to hell for that. 😁

12 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

So how is it that Harwin punches a member of the kings guard and gets kicked out of the watch, but Criston punches the future king consort and kills a guard of a noble house and now gets to guard the Queen?

It's easy to get away with shit when you have someone (Alicent) who intercedes for you, Harwin's own dad came around to shout at him and took him off his job for contrast.

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He hates Rheanyra now because he broke his honor for her and lost nothing. What a wuss he turned our to be.

Criston really fulfilling that old adage that some men should just not have sex, like at all.

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And Alicent throwing around her power by making a woman who just gave birth to come to her then say she should be resting.

To be fair, she wanted to see the baby not the mom though that was surely because she wanted to make the withering comment to poor Laenor. She must have thought that burn up months ago.  

Edited September 26, 2022 by Diapason Untuned

[Meredith Quill]

Just now, Sakura12 said:

He gets to be a member of the I hate Rheanyra club. His and Alicent probably bitch about her all the time while Rheanyra probably gives them little thought. 

Living in their heads rent free 🤣

As king, I'm surprised that Viserys didn't pull rank on Alicent and accept the proposed betrothal, his ongoing spinelessness irritates. Also, Alicent not accepting the proposal seems rather short sighted if she truly believes (as she told Aegon heatedly) that Rhaenyra is a threat to the life of him and his brother. Apparently, Jace's parentage is more important - in her mind - than a very real threat to their lives.

[Stardancer Supreme]

Ugh. I was hoping Laena would be a player in the coming drama. So I am presumed to think that she was exiled from Driftmark because of marrying Daemon?  She wanted to go home to have that baby. Kudos to Daemon for not deciding to cut Laena up like meat to have the baby. Did they rush the birth, or did her baby die in the labor? Laena went out like a G, though. I guess she knew she would not survive the birth? Poor Vhaegar was hella reluctant to let her go. I feel for her daughters...

We have Rhaenyra having midwives instead of maesters at her childbirths. Awesome! Here are the healthy dark haired babies!  Could the eldest son be Ser Criston Cole's and the other two be Harwin Strong's?  Alicent was a bitch to demand to see that baby mere minutes after his birth. Did she do that after every birth? Did she think that Rhaenyra would just allow her baby to be taken away like that? I found it a nice touch that she waited for the afterbirth and tracked blood all over the Red Keep.  Childbirth is quite messy, folks!

Laenor was far better than me; I wouldn't have let the Queen's slick remark slide like that.  I would have been in Viserys' ear with that one.  Honestly, Rhaenyra and Laenor should have left the Red Keep after they married.

Viserys must have gotten rid of that old maester to have lived 10 more years. Yes, I expected that arm to be gone.

These children are the new chess pieces. Aegon, having no interest in ruling; Aemon, who does not have a dragon of his own; and Helaena, who seems a bit strange.  Add in Laena's daughters with Daemon, and things will be quite lively.

[Jaundiced Eye]

It seems we needed the exposition of this episode, but to me it was the least interesting one so far. I'm hopeful that next week's will be a real barn burner.

[Athena5217]

For a moment I wondered whether I was watching House of the Dragon or Call the Midwife.

How did all of Alicent’s children end up with white-blonde hair? It seems unlikely.

[ybrik]

This 10 year jump has definitely done a number on both Alicent and Rhaenyra. Alicent seems so bitter and petty. Rhaenyra does seem to have lost a little bit of her spirit. 

Did Viserys lose his entire arm?

Rhaenyra offering to marry her eldest son to Alicent’s daughter was probably the best offer to avoid the coming fight that seems to be building. Though the daughter does seem to be very unique. 

Interesting dynamic with Daemon and Laena. They seemed to have had a good life these last ten years but Laena could sense that Daemon is avoiding King Landing. Sad that Laena died but glad she chose her end and died a dragon riders death.

Also sad that it seems like Viserys was somewhat right that the kids all living together could have had them form bonds if it wasn’t for Cole and Alicent seemingly putting up barriers and using the kids in their war with Rhaenyra. 

Oh another Hand with too much honor and getting himself killed because of it. Plus it got his son killed too. 

Larys killing them was definitely surprising but adds to his character. 

Seeing Viserys crying over Aemma’s ring and with Daemon making the opposite decision, really makes Viserys decision the real start point of this whole situation. His guilt over doing it I feel is a major reason why he never tries to change the heir.

The constant presence of the rats in every episode has to mean something.

[LanceM]

Only a show like HOTD could have a scene of a man standing naked in a window jerking off while his mother barges in, ignores it, and starts screaming at him that his half sister is going to murder him. Your potential future king folks.

[Roccos Brother]

The two calming forces for the two most volatile Targaryens are both gone now -- this is going to be a fun ride. 

Also, there's crazy and then there's Larys-level sociopathic crazy.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Roccos Brother

[Lassus]

My overwhelming thought for this entire episode was simply "What in the fuck is Alicent's damage?"  Ten years+ of no indication Rhaenyra's going to try and murder you and your family to death and you're still convinced?  For what the fuck reason?

Edited September 26, 2022 by Lassus

[Constantinople]

15 minutes ago, SilverStormm said:

As king, I'm surprised that Viserys didn't pull rank on Alicent and accept the proposed betrothal, his ongoing spinelessness irritates. Also, Alicent not accepting the proposal seems rather short sighted if she truly believes (as she told Aegon heatedly) that Rhaenyra is a threat to the life of him and his brother. Apparently, Jace's parentage is more important - in her mind - than a very real threat to their lives.

A marriage between Jace and Helaena protects Helaena. Aegon still represents a threat to Rhaenyra and Jace so long as he's still alive.

And when even Jace is asking if he's a bastard, that's a grave threat.

[Jaundiced Eye]

Laena chose her method of death, but she took her child with her. Not sure how I feel about that.

[Sakura12]

From what I read about Rhaenys she had dark hair when she was younger because her mother was a Baratheon. So it is possible for her grandchildren to have dark hair. I mean I know they are not Leanor's, but genetics can be like that. 

[AntFTW]

49 minutes ago, AimingforYoko said:

Are we supposed be on Alicent's side? Because I'm kind of...not.

Adult Alicent is not cool.

Edited September 26, 2022 by AntFTW

[paigow]

9 minutes ago, Jaundiced Eye said:

Laena chose her method of death, but she took her child with her. Not sure how I feel about that.

For all intents and purposes, that child was already dead...

Criston has to eventually kill Larys 

[LadyChaos]

34 minutes ago, Clawdette said:

I know all about the sexual preferences of Laenor.  But why on earth couldn’t he perform just long enough to produce an heir. One would have been enough and the rumors wouldn’t have been as rampant. In an age where you can lose your life with a finger snap I would think he and Rhaenyra would be smarter than they’ve displayed. 

The remark Rhaenyra made about how he didn't seem to care about their family in a long time....could imply that they might have tried but he didn't want to continue trying....He genuinely doesn't actually seem to care that the kids are biologically someone elses.

19 minutes ago, Athena5217 said:

For a moment I wondered whether I was watching House of the Dragon or Call the Midwife.

How did all of Alicent’s children end up with white-blonde hair? It seems unlikely.

I was actually watching CtM before I watched 106, and am watching it again. LOL.

15 minutes ago, ybrik said:

Rhaenyra offering to marry her eldest son to Alicent’s daughter was probably the best offer to avoid the coming fight that seems to be building. Though the daughter does seem to be very unique. 

Interesting dynamic with Daemon and Laena. They seemed to have had a good life these last ten years but Laena could sense that Daemon is avoiding King Landing. Sad that Laena died but glad she chose her end and died a dragon riders death.

Also sad that it seems like Viserys was somewhat right that the kids all living together could have had them form bonds if it wasn’t for Cole and Alicent seemingly putting up barriers and using the kids in their war with Rhaenyra. 

Oh another Hand with too much honor and getting himself killed because of it. Plus it got his son killed too. 

Larys killing them was definitely surprising but adds to his character. 

Seeing Viserys crying over Aemma’s ring and with Daemon making the opposite decision, really makes Viserys decision the real start point of this whole situation. His guilt over doing it I feel is a major reason why he never tries to change the heir.

If Alicent wasn't so bitter, she would've seen that could've answered all their problems and secured her sons lives as Rhaenrya probably wouldn't have killed the kids if she could unit the kids. 

I feel like Daemon actually cares for Leena but is also probably avoiding Rhaenrya.

[AntFTW]

15 minutes ago, Lassus said:

My overwhelming thought for this entire episode was simply "What in the fuck is Alicent's damage, for fuck's sake?"  Ten years+ of no indication Rhaenyra's going to try and murder you and your family to death and you're still convinced?  For what the fuck reason?

She's been an abyss of dissatisfaction.

Adult Alicent is exhausting.

[Jodithgrace]

One word of advice, Rhaenyra: peroxide. Could have saved a lot of trouble, I’m just sayin’. Though I suppose the fact that the kids aren’t of mixed race could also be counted as a tell. But if Rhaenyra could just have conjured up some white dreadlocks for her kids, the rest could be overlooked. 
 

I really liked Laena, even if I did keep expecting to to start singing about Alexander Hamilton. She went out like a true dragon rider, knowing she and the baby couldn’t survive. 
 

Both of Alicent’s boys seem a little off, I guess the legendary Targaryen insanity has to start somewhere. Rhaenyra’s sons, OTOH seem much more normal, though the prank with the pig was nasty. I suspect Aegon was the mastermind behind it, though. 
 

[AntFTW]

Just so I'm clear, Larys killed his own father and brother?

[jeansheridan]

58 minutes ago, SilverStormm said:

Summoning a newborn baby be brought to you minutes after it's born so you can inspect it ...wow.

Indeed wow and I think seeing Rhynaera power through that walk instantly made me love the actor playing her. Her mettle and stubbornness was impressive. And we can see she is still friendly with her husband. I was in the do NOT recast camp but damn that was a nuanced entrance.

[Scarlett45]

4 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

Just so I'm clear, Larys killed his own father and brother?

Yes. I never trusted him. Alicent thinks she’s smart, but she didn’t know who she was fooling with. That guy will rip her and her kids to shreds of it serves him. 

[Stardancer Supreme]

I need a show focusing on the Velaryons. Apparently Corlys did nothing about Joffrey Lonmouth's death...

Rhaena Targaryen has a dragon egg. Wouldn't Laena have known how to hatch it? I'm going to assume that Baela has a dragon and that is why Daemon dotes on her and ignores Rhaena. 

Aegon, Jacerys, and Lucerys can bond with dragons. Has Helaena bonded with one? Alicent has apparently picked up Viserys' distaste of dragons, yelling at Aemond about his "obsession". How can you blame the child when being a dragon rider is a family thing?

26 minutes ago, Lassus said:

My overwhelming thought for this entire episode was simply "What in the fuck is Alicent's damage, for fuck's sake?"  Ten years+ of no indication Rhaenyra's going to try and murder you and your family to death and you're still convinced?  For what the fuck reason?

9 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

She's been an abyss of dissatisfaction.

Adult Alicent is exhausting.

Agreed. That "let me look at the freshly born baby" stunt soured me on Alicent considerably. The Queen couldn't go into Rhaenyra's wing and look upon the baby herself? Bitch. Having had babies, I could imagine the response I would have given to that request.  Of course, having Laenor AND Viserys asking Rhaenyra if childbirth was painful and Laenor thanking the gods that he wasn't a woman was a bit much.  "Yes, childbirth is painful, Father.  But much less painful than having the babe cut out of my womb." 

[Scarlett45]

6 minutes ago, Jodithgrace said:

I suspect Aegon was the mastermind behind it, though.

I think so too. He’s the oldest, it seems likely. 

Just now, Stardancer Supreme said:

Wouldn't Laena have known how to hatch it? I'm going to assume that Baela has a dragon and that is why Daemon dotes on her and ignores Rhaena. 

Laena told her daughter that about half the eggs don’t hatch. It’s the luck of the draw if the one placed in your crib does. 

[magdalene]

You know in an episode where several people have their tongues cut out, several people burn to death, one woman chooses to go out by dragon fire - Aegon spanking the monkey out the window traumatized me the most.

This is the first time jump that has bothered me. I wanted to see Elena claiming her dragon. How she and Daemon actually got together. Why are we in such a rush to skip such good stuff? I am also upset about losing Harwin so soon (and what an awful way to go out). I wanted to see his love story with Rhaenyra.

Criston Cole is a complete piece of shit. There is something not right about both Helena and Aemond.  And Aegon, blech! Your possible future king, people!

On the other hand Rhaenyra's boys seem nice and Daemon's girls are adorable.

Color me somewhat shocked that Daemon managed to have a a fairly decent marriage for ten years and be a fairly decent father (of course preferring the daughter who is the dragon rider) - I am sure Elena being a wonderful woman played a large part in that. As someone who is fully aware that Daemon is a favorite of mine because both the character and the actor are very charismatic he impressed me by choosing his wife over the baby. Unlike Viserys.

Larys is a very scary man. He killed his father and older brother.

[Lady Whistleup]

Wow. Lots to chew on here. The time jump I think worked well, although I wish Alicent's character hadn't become so hardened and unlikable. When Emily Carey played her there was still hope for Alicent, but now ... not so much. Hope she enjoys all those green dresses. It really reminds me of how Westworld never recovered after they made Dolores evil. Alicent is a villain now, but it doesn't feel organic.

I loved Rhaenyra powering through after birth to go to Alicent for the baby inspection. Alicent's power play fell through real quick.

Overall, I like Emma D’Arcy better as Rhaenyra and Olivia Cooke less as Alicent.

I couldn't believe Daemon turned into a decent family man.

I'm not understanding the genetics here. Alicent has dark hair, but all her kids have the Targaryen white blond hair? And Rhae has white blond hair, but all her kids have dark hair? 

I'm also surprised Rhae and her husband can't get it together for one actual baby. Back in the day, lavender marriages produced heirs, you know.

Alicent's son Aegon seems really off. 

I'm looking forward to Alicent dealing with the psycho Larys. She totally bit off more than she could chew.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Lady Whistleup

[paigow]

Criston Cole:  Ancestry.com 

Descendents include:

[steelyis]

59 minutes ago, LanceM said:

You are supposed to pick whatever side you want and they are not going to help you because both sides have their share of assholes. It is the beauty of this show.

I wouldn't call it beauty... More like complicated and super fucked-up, which does make things... Interesting.

Damn, Viserys. I mean, God Damn!

[Kate47]

Alicent is bold af to be dressing her kids in solid green. Cersei at least waited until Robert was dead before she pushed her kids in lion everything. I guess Viserys has reached the point where he's just done and over it.