S19.E11: Finale Part I

[DEL901]

Just now, phlebas said:

Right?  Who had the last engagement that stuck? Rachel Lindsey? (Not counting BiP, I guess)

Matt and Rachael are going strong after that short break. 

[Jules1]

I think I have eye strain from rolling my eyes at Rachel. When her friends said Aven was being “logical” her reaction was one of horror. Logic has no place on the Bachelorette! I think she wants to be engaged so badly, she doesn’t care to who. 

[phlebas]

Just now, DEL901 said:

Matt and Rachael are going strong after that short break. 

But they didn't bother with the Neil Lane Engagement. 

If people stopped treating the "E" word like it was carved on a stone tablet on Mt Sinai and admitted it was really just an agreement to date, we might have less neurotic storylines.

[lgprimes]

These two girls are coming off as so desperate this season. Willing to be engaged to the only guys who are willing to ask them. In neither case do these guys seem to be their first choices but they don’t have the confidence to wait and see what would happen without a televised proposal.

 Weak.

[truthaboutluv]

4 minutes ago, phlebas said:

Right?  Who had the last engagement that stuck? Rachel Lindsey? (Not counting BiP, I guess)

I guess Arie, if you know, you don't count the switching F1s. 

[Melonie77]

53 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

Especially since she was a cheerleader too and thus also has dance experience.  (College vs NFL, but that is still performing at a high level) Rachel is clearly showing why she is single.   At least Gabby acknowledges her flaws and is working with a therapist.  Rachel can’t see her flaws.  She just pushed Aven away.  She doesn’t deserve him.  

That's a sign of a narcissist...

54 minutes ago, Jaundiced Eye said:

She gets unhinged when anyone dares suggest that what THEY want or feel even enters into the equation. I think she's a narcissist.

I agree - she shows a lot of the characteristics of a narc personality....vain, controlling, self absorbed, no self-awareness, 

I do think Rachel, based on what we've seen of her personality is probably resentful that she did not get asked to do DWTS and Gabby did. I guess I don't blame her. She did mention in an interview that she would like to do the show. I don't think DWTS would have been against having both girls on the same season competing against each other. They could have done a narrative with this. Maybe they were afraid she would cancel rehearsals? Or I can see her saying she's canceling her dance during the live performance because the audience did not pay enough attention to her or clap hard enough during the intro sequence.🙃

[Kiss my mutt]

I think there is a sense that it is a personal failing or unworthy of love if they come out without being engaged, even if that’s the best thing for them. With Rachel, It’s definitely a source of pride and saving face, I don’t see how anyone could expect to get engaged this season with how few opportunities there were to get to know each other.  Funny how I thought she was the more stable one of the two.  

[JenE4]

Another one saying he won’t propose?!? Oh, Erich. Okay, at this point I’m developing a conspiracy theory that Neil Lane is no longer providing free rings to this show and they are forcing all of the guys to stall unless or until they secure a new sponsor.

[phlebas]

I wonder if this would all have gone differently if Rachel and Gabby had Kaitlyn to talk to instead of Jesse

[dizzyd]

Well I was definitely not expecting bonus time. Same dilemma as Aven. I like Gabby’s proposal dress. 

Edited September 14, 2022 by dizzyd

[DEL901]

So, Erich also thinks that dating after the show is the best way forward, but unlike Rachel who still has plan B/Tino, Erich is Gabby’s last best hope for and engagement before she is set adrift, alone for ever.  

[Madding crowd]

To me Gabby is exactly like Rachel in every way including demanding an engagement. I just can’t see her as superior to Rachel. Both are immature.

[phlebas]

Just now, Madding crowd said:

To me Gabby is exactly like Rachel in every way including demanding an engagement. I just can’t see her as superior to Rachel. Both are immature.

I agree. Rachel is more dramatic with her emotions, but Gabby is just as prone to freaking out.

[DEL901]

Is Rachel wearing a wedding gown for the proposal?

[Riplet68]

Are they not allowed to talk about this in the overnight?  I’ve never understood why the it never looks like the lead tells their winner, “your it, but I’m.contractually obligated to make these other guys think I love them, so please bare with me.”  and also, “ look, giving me this ring doesn’t mean we get married next year, we can date forever(look at JoJo and Jordan-or even Rachel and what’s his name).

Gabby is such a better dresser than Rachel.  A lot of the stuff Rachel chooses makes her look shorter or dumpy, and she’s definitely not dumpy.

[Diana Berry]

14 minutes ago, phlebas said:

Right?  Who had the last engagement that stuck? Rachel Lindsey? (Not counting BiP, I guess)

Kenny and Mara / grocery Joe and Serena are doing well from bip

[Amy Beth]

This show peaked in its first season. The Trista, Ryan, Charlie triangle was some good TV. I remember being surprised for real with her choice.

[phlebas]

1 minute ago, Diana Berry said:

Kenny and Mara / grocery Joe and Serena are doing well from bip

I think Kenny and Mari actually got married

[DEL901]

4 minutes ago, Diana Berry said:

Kenny and Mara / grocery Joe and Serena are doing well from bip

Kevin and Astrid have a baby.  She moved to Toronto and they got engaged but the wedding was delayed by Covid. 

And Tommy and Boops (Thomas and Rebecca) bought a house and a dog.

Edited September 14, 2022 by DEL901

[Melonie77]

30 minutes ago, dizzyd said:

Dual bachelor edit? Zach and Aven? 

I wouldn't be surprised at this. I saw a lot of chatter online about having 2 bachs.

Although maybe they will surprise us and present Gabby's Grandpa for the next bachelor!

Rachel tells Jesse "I'm always fighting back tears, Jesse." And she sounds MAD - is she angry with the show because it's not working out very well for her? I hope she doesn't jump into her little crop-duster plane and take aim at Jesse next.

[Tuneful]

These two dipsticks (G and R) should be sentenced to attend divorce court for a full day. No, not with each other. Alone. And hear  outcomes of some rushed engagements.

This Finale was unbearable to me. From Gabby's baby voice and vocal fry, to Tino's mouth moving with no expression in his eyes, to Spoiled Rachel--to whom "if there's a problem, it's always YOUR fault! And Imma whine and cry!" Breathtaking lack of insight about herself and others. Maybe Tino's father had R's number from the get-go. Aven and Zach, you dodged a bullet. 

Edited September 15, 2022 by Tuneful

[GracieK]

In fairness to Gabby’s freak out - I mean Erich said he wants to date after they leave? Dating implies he’s not even going to delete his Tinder account. 

[Diana Berry]

1 minute ago, phlebas said:

I think Kenny and Mari actually got married

I follow them on IG not sure if married.  She moved to chicago and they just adopted another dog.   They do quite a bit of charity appearances which is nice.

[JenE4]

Okay, this dramatic preview is just silly. We know the Gabby freak-out footage is the continuation of the date we just saw. As Rachel’s freak out on Tino will be during their final date. We then see the girls toasting to getting engaged “tomorrow,” and then gussied up and waiting at proposal pointe. Granted, I guess we don’t know whether either guy will propose, but we know neither couple broke up over the fight—and both girls were at least somewhat confident that a proposal was forthcoming, despite their date-night freak-out that it wasn’t.

[Diana Berry]

Erich’s IG story just came up looks like he’s enjoying a Red Hot Chili Peppers concert with his mom. Guess he’s feeling no pain.

rachel really did look miserable or maybe she’s not feeling well. Gabby has DWTS so she’s on top of the world 

[Jaundiced Eye]

The look on Rachel's face when Aven entered to thunderous applause . . .

[nickp1991]

grandpa john needs his own abc show

[Diana Berry]

2 minutes ago, Jaundiced Eye said:

The look on Rachel's face when Aven entered to thunderous applause . . .

She was in charge of her own edit.  She had one guy wanted to get married he got the boot.  The other wants to have a normal relationship before proposing and he gets the boot.

[Tuneful]

1 hour ago, dizzyd said:

But Zach has Puddy! 

Yeah that's right

[Melonie77]

1 hour ago, phlebas said:

Rachel seems like a crazy person but the teenager in me can't stop looking at her. 

The mute button on my remote is about to push me back through puberty.

Putting aside her appearance, have you changed your mind about her personality?😁

[Melonie77]

1 hour ago, LakeGal said:

This show should consider using Promise rings instead of Engagement rings.  The word Engagement seems to be a sticking point for several of them.  

Yes, and as the show ages it seems the idea of an 'engagement' becomes more and more of a problem.

[StatisticalOutlier]

1 hour ago, dizzyd said:

Well I was definitely not expecting bonus time.

I was, because for two days my DirecTV online schedule has shown this show as 2 hours and 15 minutes.  So Jesse's "We've gotten permission from ABC to run long because everything is just too exciting" is a little much.

Rachel's face looks different.  Kind of puffy.  Please tell me it's not fillers.

[tinkerbell]

47 minutes ago, Diana Berry said:

She was in charge of her own edit.  She had one guy wanted to get married he got the boot.  The other wants to have a normal relationship before proposing and he gets the boot.

But its so irrational to choose a guy based on his willingness to get engaged after knowing someone such a short time.  If you love or are " in love" with more than one person, then you are not ready to be engaged.  I know, that's the premise of the show, but it's ridiculous.

[GracieK]

3 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

I was, because for two days my DirecTV online schedule has shown this show as 2 hours and 15 minutes.  So Jesse's "We've gotten permission from ABC to run long because everything is just too exciting" is a little much.

Rachel's face looks different.  Kind of puffy.  Please tell me it's not fillers.

If her waist hadn’t looked so trim I was going with pregnant. Now that would be the most dramatic finale ever. I’m thinking it probably is fillers though. At 26… they will only distort her face as she does age. 

[Melonie77]

I think I read that this year the Bachelorette had the longest amount of time from the end of filming to the end of the airing of the season. (RS says it's been 4 months.)
So the leads had to keep the ending a secret for a longer amount of time.

I wonder if Johnny, Jason and Logan will return next week?

Rachel is obviously giving away that she is NOT happy with how her season has turned out.

Edited September 14, 2022 by Melonie77
re-wrote due to spoiler

[Melonie77]

9 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Rachel's face looks different.  Kind of puffy.  Please tell me it's not fillers.

I noticed that also. You could definitely see her face was heavier when compared with the clips of her during the season (which I think was about 2 months ago.)

I think Rachel gained weight since her Clayton season. My sister and I both noticed this. I saw a photo of her from a year or 2 ago and she was maybe 20 or so pounds slimmer. Now it looks like she has put on a few more pounds once again.

[gwen747]

You know... This show would have a much better long-term success rate if the leads would focus more on finding someone special to explore after the final rose versus trying to get engaged after a few weeks. It's just ridiculous. 

[Melonie77]

2 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

To me Gabby is exactly like Rachel in every way including demanding an engagement. I just can’t see her as superior to Rachel. Both are immature.

But Gabby is not vain. She has issues due to her mother. I think she is a kinder person than Rachel is.

In addition, the producers really didn't showcase her pre-bachelor accomplishments very well. She was a very successful pro cheerleader who also worked as an ICU nurse. 

Edited September 14, 2022 by Melonie77

[Aim123]

Why does Rachel's hair look grayish green... And why is Jesse using his special bedtime voice to talk to the audience this time. Aven looks like a male Meghan Markle.

Edited September 14, 2022 by Aim123
Thought of something else

[Madding crowd]

It is vain to think a man has to propose or to expect a ring or else. I’m aware she is a professional, so is Rachel . If Gabby’s mental health issues are forcing her to expect a proposal than she shouldn’t be on the show. I don’t think it’s fair to say Rachel is a terrible person and Gabby’s behavior is out of her control. 

[Melonie77]

2 hours ago, Kiss my mutt said:

I think there is a sense that it is a personal failing or unworthy of love if they come out without being engaged, even if that’s the best thing for them. With Rachel, It’s definitely a source of pride and saving face, I don’t see how anyone could expect to get engaged this season with how few opportunities there were to get to know each other.  Funny how I thought she was the more stable one of the two.  

Has there ever been a bachelorette/bachelor who got completely rejected by all their bachs? I know we had the one Bachelor who picked no one.

Edited September 14, 2022 by Melonie77

[Melonie77]

1 hour ago, Madding crowd said:

It is vain to think a man has to propose or to expect a ring or else. I’m aware she is a professional, so is Rachel . If Gabby’s mental health issues are forcing her to expect a proposal than she shouldn’t be on the show. I don’t think it’s fair to say Rachel is a terrible person and Gabby’s behavior is out of her control. 

I agree that they are both immature leads. Both have issues that are being exploited by the show and both are behaving badly over the engagement issue. I also didn't understand Gabby's flipflopping between Jason and Erich.

The women should have been able to placate their final choices behind the scenes and not on screen. Why didn't Gabby tell Erich during the overnight that she was fine with dating but they would need to go through with the engagement for the show world? I'm guessing that a lot of previous leads have discussed that scenario.

However, I do not think Rachel is vain only because she wants an engagement. Throughout the entire season she appeared to be narcissistic, spoiled and self-absorbed. She threw the routine of the show off with her cancellations over petty nonsense.

IMO between the two women Gabby behaved better for the majority of the season.
And I believe she is a much nicer person than Rachel.

Edited September 14, 2022 by Melonie77

[azprimadonna]

All season long Rachel had a beautiful glow and tonight, she was miserable and looked sick with puffy face.  She still had a tiny figure, but her sparkling eyes were dull and her smile hardly appeared.  The grayish tone to her hair didn't help.

[JenE4]

I tend to think that Gabby over-reacted to Erich saying he can’t wait to date her in the real world because she knows what Rachel just went through with Zach and Aven, and she was afraid she’s getting dumped, too.  Jesse is saying that they have separate journeys at this point, but that just means they stopped filming together, not that they are forbidden to talk to each other. And you know hearing Rachel’s side of the story, she was the victim, and both guys devastated her by saying they don’t want to marry her—which isn’t at all what either was saying, but that’s all she heard. Not only that, but Gabby has her own abandonment issues from her mother, so it’s already a deep belief about herself that anyone she loves will leave her. It makes sense to me why Gabby would freak out in this scenario because she’s scared and hurt deep inside. Rachel, on the other hand, is her Daddy’s “pride and joy,” as he told us, and I don’t think she was ever told no in her life. The princess gets what the princess wants.

[nlkm9]

9 hours ago, Riplet68 said:

Ha!  Avens body language just shows how exhausting she is.  He said everything right, she just wasn’t listening. 
I don’t get this reaction from her. Wait….what!!!! She said she saw it her and Aven at the end???  That’s not true. Even with my guess as to what happpens with Tino, how did she think Tino was going to react when he sees this?  And she obviously says yes to Tino, how could she go from, “it’s going to be and Aven” to saying yes to Tino.  It rally is all about the ring with her. She is NOT coming off well

This may be as bad as when jogh found out andi slept with nick! Although chris and desiree made it, even watching desiree talk about brooks. I think tino is going to be livid . I also think shes a liar and aven was never her # 1, so she is no better than clayton.

[nlkm9]

8 hours ago, Jaundiced Eye said:

The look on Rachel's face when Aven entered to thunderous applause . . .

The saddest part is aven and even zach were so overly contrite in their “ apologies” and you know that was just for show . Rachel in particular really sees herself as blameless. Watching rachels actions in the prior clayton season, it is obvious she just wants an engagement to any warm body. 
as far as Gaby, she looked different - her lips looked smaller and her teeth looked bigger - am I nuts ? Lol.

im starting to wonder if the producers take the guys for a chat and tell them how crazy an instant engagement is . While at the same time brainwashing the girls and saying it has to end in engagement. 
i had a friend who ditched her amazing boyfriend and immediately got engaged and married to someone else and 35 years later she is still sorry aboit it .

7 hours ago, gwen747 said:

You know... This show would have a much better long-term success rate if the leads would focus more on finding someone special to explore after the final rose versus trying to get engaged after a few weeks. It's just ridiculous. 

You know, i used to watch bip for the sheer ridiculousness if it - but now that has even become a get engaged show. At least on that show they have the chance to leave together. 

[nlkm9]

7 hours ago, Melonie77 said:

I noticed that also. You could definitely see her face was heavier when compared with the clips of her during the season (which I think was about 2 months ago.)

I think Rachel gained weight since her Clayton season. My sister and I both noticed this. I saw a photo of her from a year or 2 ago and she was maybe 20 or so pounds slimmer. Now it looks like she has put on a few more pounds once again.

I remember ali explaining all the travel and food and drink led her to gain weight at the end .

[nlkm9]

7 hours ago, tinkerbell said:

But its so irrational to choose a guy based on his willingness to get engaged after knowing someone such a short time.  If you love or are " in love" with more than one person, then you are not ready to be engaged.  I know, that's the premise of the show, but it's ridiculous.

There have been many leads that left the show dating and not engaged. I think the powers that be really wanted a double engagement. But to amp up the drama they discouraged the guys , or the guys were feeling trapped or wanting to be on bip. Im hate watching at this point

8 hours ago, Melonie77 said:

Yes, and as the show ages it seems the idea of an 'engagement' becomes more and more of a problem.

Bob guiney told his final pick the ring was a “ promise ring” lol. They broke up a few weeks later .

[rlc]

I want a diamond engagement ring and I want it now!

[Jax7917]

I feel like the Erich just wanting to date thing is going to be a "just kidding" moment in the next episode. He's said a lot of times that he's all in with her and ready to propose and I think the show is trying to make this into a joke. I have a feeling he is going to just want it to be a surprise that he's proposing and wants to throw her off.