Jeopardy! Season 39 (2022-2023)

[Browncoat]

Instaget FJ again for me tonight!  Or at least an instaguess tonight.  

I also got several of the many TS, including stands, Mines of Moria, 42, Emma Thompson, Judi Dench, Triplets of Belleville, chariot, and burglary.

I saw Triplets of Belleville a long time ago, so I don't remember a whole lot about it except that I really liked it a lot!

Also, WTF with 37 instead of 42?  Where did 37 come from?

[SomeTameGazelle]

12 hours ago, Browncoat said:

I also got several of the many TS, including stands, Mines of Moria, 42, Emma Thompson, Judi Dench, Triplets of Belleville, chariot, and burglary.

Since it appeared that no one had any idea I would have liked Mayim to just mention that 42 comes from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy series and also that Judi Dench had played M in the Bond movies lately. [ETA: I don't follow Bond closely so apparently "lately" isn't quite accurate. Please understand as "for 20 years, between 1995 and 2015, with Pierce Brosnan and Daniel Craig; Ralph Fiennes became the next M." Thanks @MrAtoz for providing more context that drove me to look it up.]

Good for Bryan. 

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by SomeTameGazelle

[annzeepark914]

I wish they'd get rid of the need for contestants having to tell us something amusing about themselves. Hairy chest? Blech. 

[shapeshifter]

Thank goodness they gave us an easy FJ
— which I always presume is to make the FJ wagers take precedence,
— although not so much in this case with a "lock game"
because now I at least have one FJ win for the week 
— which happens to be Week 42.

But, more importantly, like the rest of us, 42 was an instaget for the clue of:

• A Google search for what's the answer to life, the universe & everything gives you this number

So, what's up with 37??? 
TPTB of Jeopardy! may have re-tweaked the qualifying algorithm to get a sharper player like Bryan on the show, but he doesn't know Douglas Adams??? 😢😔

I did also instaget the DDs of Noah's Ark and Chariot.

[possibilities]

I was rooting for the guy who didn't take 10 minutes to choose a category every time it was his turn to do so, and was glad it was a runaway. This may be a game of wits, but you need speed, too. I wanted to see the final clue and I couldn't blame Mayim this time.

I realize I am being super-bitchy right now, but that's where I'm at.

Also, I knew the number was from Hitchhiker, but I couldn't remember what it was. I thought it was 14. At least I got one digit? I read it ages ago.

[Bastet]

I was bummed no one knew 42.  And rather surprised no one figured out burglary.  The stands TS was also unexpected.

I ran Pledge of Allegiance, koalas, and policy, and got all but Judi Dench in dames (I had no idea she'd been in a Bond movie).  But it wasn't a good first round, as I missed three in Google, and almost blew doors entirely (I correctly guessed Noah's Ark for the DD, but that's it).

I only ran prefixes in DJ (so maybe if they'd revealed the last clue I'd have missed it).  I got all but one in plays and Constantinople, but missed two each in access and geography.  I was terrible in animated movies, which is to be expected as I am not a fan; I only got The Land Before Time (I only got that because my cousin's kid made me watch it with him long ago and I was kind of horrified he didn't cry; I didn't recognize any of other other character names, but Littlefoot was seared into my brain).

FJ was an instaget, so at least I ended on a high note.

[chicagofan]

28 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

A Google search for what's the answer to life, the universe & everything gives you this number

So, what's up with 37??? 
TPTB of Jeopardy! may have re-tweaked the qualifying algorithm to get a sharper player like Bryan on the show, but he doesn't know Douglas Adams??? 😢😔

While I have heard of "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy", I know absolutely nothing about it. Never read it - never saw or heard anything associated with it - don't know who Douglas Adams is. So I had no idea what the correct number was or where it was from and that clue resulted in a blank stare and 'crickets' in the Chicagofan house.

On the other hand I got the TSs of Bay of Biscay, Edward Albee and Murmansk (among others), so different strokes...

[SomeTameGazelle]

1 hour ago, chicagofan said:

While I have heard of "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy", I know absolutely nothing about it. Never read it - never saw or heard anything associated with it - don't know who Douglas Adams is. So I had no idea what the correct number was or where it was from and that clue resulted in a blank stare and 'crickets' in the Chicagofan house.

I think it's a bit niche. And it seems like the last (only?) time Jeopardy had a clue about HHG and the number forty-two it was also a TS. 

July 12 2012, category How Novel:

https://j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=3945&highlight=Guide+to+the+Galaxy

[Cotypubby]

3rd instaget FJ for me this week! Seems they’ve been a bit easier lately.

I always root for the players who go right to the theatre categories so was glad Bryan won. (Anyone else think he looks like the actor Chris Sullivan?)

My Tolkien nerdiness came out because I answered “Khazad-dûm” for the Mines of Moria. 😄 Still correct since that’s just the same place in the language of the Dwarves.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Cotypubby

[Browncoat]

I can understand 42 being a TS, though it makes me sad, but if you don’t know, don’t ring in with some random number!  I still want to know where he got 37.

[Mindthinkr]

I wasn’t able to watch last night, so I just checked the archive. 
At least I got one FJ this week. 

[MrAtoz]

12 hours ago, Bastet said:

got all but Judi Dench in dames (I had no idea she'd been in a Bond movie).

She was in eight Bond movies! She played "M," Bond's boss, from 1995 until 2015.

Fun fact: Judi Dench appeared in more James Bond films than any individual James Bond. The longest serving Bonds, Sean Connery and Roger Moore, were both in seven movies.

I think that the only actors who have been in more Bond movies than Dench are Bernard Lee (the original "M") and Desmond Llewelyn ("Q").

Edited to add: I should have also remembered Lois Maxwell, the original Moneypenny, who was in 14 Bond films.

Edited June 29, 2023 by MrAtoz

[ams1001]

8 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

was glad Bryan won. (Anyone else think he looks like the actor Chris Sullivan?)

Yes!

[illdoc]

3 hours ago, Browncoat said:

I can understand 42 being a TS, though it makes me sad, but if you don’t know, don’t ring in with some random number!  I still want to know where he got 37.

I was so close! I came up with 43. Maybe he was thinking "47" (ST fans know what I'm talking about), but misspoke?

[Shrek]

9 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

My Tolkien nerdiness came out because I answered “Khazad-dûm” for the Mines of Moria. 😄 Still correct since that’s just the same place in the language of the Dwarves.

I didn't think I was a nerd but I answered the same. Made me wonder if that would have been allowed as I thought I was alone.

[30 Helens]

10 hours ago, Bastet said:

I was bummed no one knew 42.  

42? 37? I had no idea what any of that meant until coming here. That really should have been on Mayim’s notepad. I was bummed that no one knew Triplets of Belleville. I guess we all have our niches.

I wish Chris had won more money for his brother’s cause, but I like Bryan and found his story amusing. I know some don’t like the stories (and yes, many of them are not great), but I think they’re a great way to get a sense of the contestant’s personality. Without the intro conversations, they’d just be faces at the podiums and I wouldn’t know who to root for.

FJ took a few seconds (“who invented CPR?”) but I got there in plenty of time.

 

[Driad]

I wish the interviews were more often relevant to the game.  If a contestant is a professor or student, I'd like to know what their field is, because it can affect how well they do in certain categories.  Most of the "how I met my spouse" and "what I did on vacation" stories are pretty dull, IMO.

[ABay]

One of the things I like about Only Connect is that the host introduces the team members with one odd or funny note about each. When it started, the team captains introduced the contestants and it was awful. 

Edited June 29, 2023 by ABay

[Cementhead]

12 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

I always root for the players who go right to the theatre categories so was glad Bryan won. (Anyone else think he looks like the actor Chris Sullivan?)

Now I do! 

My nerd husband knew 42 but I did not and this is a perfect example of where Mayim is lacking as host for me.  Ken would have followed 42 up by making a quick and clever quip to help fill in the blank for the people at home who didn't get it but Mayim never does.  But then on another show, on another day, she will say something like "Mmmm, ice cream" after an answer is given. 

Same thing -- when Bryan tells his hairy chest story, he sets her right up to say something witty, funny, snarky, anything and instead she says something like "I have nothing to say to you."  Yeah, and that's exactly the problem!  Ken keeps up with the stupidity of it all with a fun, snappy comeback which makes the stupid segment a little more fun.  The best Mayim can do most nights is giggle. 

[Clanstarling]

On 6/28/2023 at 8:56 AM, proserpina65 said:

Which no librarian I personally know would ever wear.  My best friend was a librarian for decades and wouldn't be caught dead wearing librarian chic.  (She's the one who called Donna "too precious".)  But hey, different people like different fashion.

When I was in library school none of us would have dreamed of dressing "like a librarian" - we thought we were far too cute and cool. LOL

On 6/28/2023 at 9:16 AM, 3 is enough said:

So basically if you finish third and don’t live within driving distance of the studio you pay to be on Jeopardy!.

I guess I don't really have  problem with that. It's a competition - and I don't think many competitions (even televised) give you money to travel and participate. Some require an entrance/participation fee. Dog shows, sports (non professional), races, etc. So what you get is a really exciting vacation. That's worth paying for, imo.

Got Heimlich pretty quickly, and did okay with the rest of the clues.

 

[proserpina65]

So last night's game wasn't quite as good as Tuesday's for me.  Did get FJ pretty quickly.  Only ran Koala and Dame but got all but one in Pledge, Easter Eggs, Open Door, Policy, Plays and Prefixes.

Again with all the non-answers!  There were thirteen stumpers plus two missed DDs.  I got eleven: Queensland, Emma Thompson, Judi Dench, 42, Noah's Ark, mines of Moria, Bay of Biscay, Edward Albee, chariot racing, Topkapi Palace and Murmansk (because that's where the Soviet submarines are launched in The Hunt for Red October).  As a court employee, I am ashamed at not having come up with burglary; I knew it, I just couldn't randomly access the memory.

17 hours ago, Trey said:

Bryan seems okay but I draw the line at pictures of his hairy chest.

Idk, I kinda like hairy chests, lol.

19 hours ago, Prevailing Wind said:

but so was the Kipling stuff.

Not so much The Jungle Book stories, which I re-read within the last couple of years.  Some of his other stuff, yeah, probably, but less so than many other writers of the time period and location.  Kipling was actually an interesting person, but far from ideal, that's for sure.

[proserpina65]

17 hours ago, Browncoat said:

I saw Triplets of Belleville a long time ago, so I don't remember a whole lot about it except that I really liked it a lot!

I almost had that one.  I said Triplets of Beauville.  Oops.  It looked like an entertaining movie but I haven't had the chance to see it.

14 hours ago, Bastet said:

The stands TS was also unexpected.

I got stuck on bleachers, which I knew was incorrect, and couldn't get to stands in time.

13 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

My Tolkien nerdiness came out because I answered “Khazad-dûm” for the Mines of Moria. 😄 Still correct since that’s just the same place in the language of the Dwarves.

All hail Cotypubby!  🐉  (Couldn't find an emoji of someone bowing so I went with the noblest beast in the list.)

[ams1001]

15 hours ago, Bastet said:

The stands TS was also unexpected.

Maybe they were doing the same as I was - reciting the pledge until they got to the word - and weren't quick enough (I got there about half a second before Mayim gave the answer).

[SomeTameGazelle]

29 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

Maybe they were doing the same as I was - reciting the pledge until they got to the word - and weren't quick enough (I got there about half a second before Mayim gave the answer).

I think the brain also stores verbs and nouns in different places so it may be harder to match the verb stands from the pledge to the noun stands described in the clue. 

[annzeepark914]

I learned today (at my coffee group) that other Jeopardy fans are also "particular" about some contestants. So I no longer feel guilty about getting irritated by various quirks. Last night, Bryan kept making a face each time his guess was correct. I've never seen any contestant do this before. Maybe tonight he'll be a bit calmer & won't be doing these grimaces. 

[MerBearHou]

23 minutes ago, annzeepark914 said:

Last night, Bryan kept making a face each time his guess was correct.

Yes!  Bryan did this very quick smile every time he was correct -- feels weird for me to complain about someone smiling too much, but it was kind of bizarre.  He did seem like a really pleasant fellow.  My Jeopardy episode today (it shows here at 11:30am CST) was cut off in the last 1/2 by a presidential speech, so I have no idea how the show went.  Will find it online tonight.  

[ProudMary]

I think Bryan looks more like Will Sasso than he does Chris Sullivan. JMHO.

[possibilities]

The times I saw it, I took his smiling as relief, but I look away from the TV a lot, so I might have missed some of his expressions.

[possibilities]

Just a head's up: I have not read Kipling's The Jungle Book, but the opinion that it is not racist is not a universal one. 

Two examples of this opinion:

https://mediadiversified.org/2016/04/29/the-new-jungle-book-tries-to-bypass-racism-by-erasing-identities-altogether/

https://gizmodo.com/reminder-rudyard-kipling-was-a-racist-fuck-and-the-jun-1771044121

 

BTW: does anyone know a quick way to do a search for this book, and screen out articles about the Disney movies based on it? I tried a few different ways, but apparently the world cares more about Disney than Kipling. The articles I linked do discuss the book, but to find them I had to shovel through a load of Disney-talk.

 

[chicagofan]

How many times can I say "Come on! Really!"? I don't know, I lost count. I am surprised that they managed to clear both boards with all the missed clues. Not that I did all that well today, but there's only 1 of me and 3 of them.

Had a few good categories - ran "Pride of the Museum", and got 4 in "At the Farmers Market", "Fun With Airport Codes" and "Historic Shorts". But had 3 horrible categories - only got 1 in "Lit-Pourri", and didn't get any in "21st Century Television" and "Writing: Music". Grrr!

Got a plethora (good word) of TSs today. In the J round I got 4 - pie, Finland (northern European country), Victoria and Albert Museum and Guggenheim. 7 TSs in DJ - Pepin, Italy, Zanzibar, Latvia, Rousseau, Billy the Kid Rock and Miley Cyrus McCormick. Didn't get any of the 3 missed DDs. Should have gotten at least one of them, but I keep getting the Borgias and the Medicis mixed up.

And FJ was a surprising instaget. Titanic came to mind immediately, but I thought no way! But I couldn't think of anything else so that was my answer. Surprise! Now I feel better about starting off the week 0 for 2 - now I'm on a 2 game win streak.

Well something to look forward to - at least for some of us - Ken's back on Monday. Unless someone's heard something?

Edited June 30, 2023 by chicagofan

[Trey]

There certainly were a lot of ts's.

I got the ts's or missed DDs of Finland, PIE, Pinocchio, Victoria & Albert, Billy the Kid Rock, bittersweet, Latvia, Borgia, and RICO.

For FJ I fairly quickly came up with Ghost and was gobsmacked when that wasn't correct.  In my defence, I've never watched Titanic.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Trey

[Katy M]

I didn't get FJ.  I was waffling between Ghost and toy story nd didn't think either was right so declined to answer.

I got the missed clues of Finland, pIE, Victoria & Albert, bittersweet, Billy the Kid Rock, Latvia, Felipe, Italy, pepin, Borgia, RICO, and allocution (thank you, Law & Order

I got the entire categories of airport codes and i before ee right.

6 minutes ago, Trey said:

In my defence, I've never watched Titanic.

I don't think it would have helped.  I don't remember Rose having anything to do with ceramics.

[proserpina65]

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

Just a head's up: I have not read Kipling's The Jungle Book, but the opinion that it is not racist is not a universal one. 

Two examples of this opinion:

https://mediadiversified.org/2016/04/29/the-new-jungle-book-tries-to-bypass-racism-by-erasing-identities-altogether/

https://gizmodo.com/reminder-rudyard-kipling-was-a-racist-fuck-and-the-jun-1771044121

 

BTW: does anyone know a quick way to do a search for this book, and screen out articles about the Disney movies based on it? I tried a few different ways, but apparently the world cares more about Disney than Kipling. The articles I linked do discuss the book, but to find them I had to shovel through a load of Disney-talk.

 

Few opinions are universal.  That's why they are opinions.

I went with the ceramics angle like Bryan did and said Ghost.

[ams1001]

June 29:

87% / 50% / 67%

Great first round! Ran Farmers Market, Lit-Pourri, and I Before EE, missed one each in Airport Codes and Pride of the Museum, and two in 21st Century TV.

Terrible second round…ran The Law, missed one in The Hypocritic Oaf, three in World L and Writing: Music, and four in Historic Shorts and Before & After People (though I at least got half of most of them).

Did not get FJ...I also guessed Ghost, though I didn't think it was right because I figured the centenarian part of the clue had to be a hint and that didn't make sense. I feel like Titanic should have come to mind since I saw a headline about how people are up in arms about Netflix bringing it back so soon after the recent incident (because I'm sure those things aren't planned months in advance).

TSes were Pie (a guess, but dessert + city in Florida = Key Lime pie, plus it had to rhyme with Fly), Pinocchio (DD), Guggenheim, bittersweet, Pepin the Short, Leiden, RICO (DD), allocution, and Freehold (I would have to move in shame if I didn't get that one).
 

Edited June 29, 2023 by ams1001

[chicagofan]

11 minutes ago, Trey said:

For FJ I fairly quickly came up with Ghost and was gobsmacked when that wasn't correct.  In my defence, I've never watched Titanic.

 

5 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I didn't get FJ.  I was waffling between Ghost and toy story nd didn't think either was right so declined to answer.

When I saw/heard the response of Ghost I thought "Crap! That's it". So I was surprised when my answer of Titanic was right. I haven't seen Titanic either (wasn't even sure it came out in the 90s) but centenarian in the clue made me think of Rose and I couldn't think of anything else.

[ams1001]

9 minutes ago, chicagofan said:

I haven't seen Titanic either (wasn't even sure it came out in the 90s)

I always remember it came out in 1997 because we were seeing ads for it when I was still in college, and rolling our eyes at the trailers being out for a movie that wasn't coming out for more than six months. I graduated in May and I saw the movie with a coworker at the job I didn't start until October, so I knew it was after that (just looked; it was released December 19th).

When we got out of the movie, it was absolutely pouring rain. Seemed fitting.

[Browncoat]

I also said Ghost for FJ, focusing on the ceramics part of the clue.  And then I couldn't remember if that even came out in the 90s (I looked it up -- 1990), but nothing else came to me.  I have seen Titanic, but apparently have blocked most of it from my memory.  Thank goodness.

I did get the TS of Finland, Victoria & Albert, Guggenheim, bittersweet, Latvia, and Zanzibar.  There were a couple that I should have gotten, but couldn't bring the words from my brain in time.

[possibilities]

For a second, I thought Tenysa was our former contestant librarian after taking off her glasses and letting down her hair. But I found her delightful. Actually, this seemed like a fun bunch all around, though the uptalk on Alicia is one of my personal peeves.

I would have given her "guiltless". 

[ams1001]

9 minutes ago, possibilities said:

For a second, I thought Tenysa was our former contestant librarian after taking off her glasses and letting down her hair. But I found her delightful.

I liked her a lot. Would have been happy if she'd won. I also liked her green shirt.

 

10 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I would have given her "guiltless". 

It was guilt-free (I before EE)...but I don't think that fits the first part of the clue ("Adjective denoting pleasure accompanied by regret"). Unless you eat too much sugar-free chocolate, I guess...

[Kimmmmmm]

I really like Bryan AND his smile and am glad he won.

[Mindthinkr]

1 hour ago, Trey said:

There certainly were a lot of ts's.

I got the ts's or missed DDs of Finland, PIE, Pinocchio, Victoria & Albert, Billy the Kid Rock, bittersweet, Latvia, Borgia, and RICO.

For FJ I fairly quickly came up with Ghost and was gobsmacked when that wasn't correct.  In my defence, I've never watched Titanic.

I have never watched Titanic either. Is this close to being a part of the Jeopardy curse considering what happened last week? I guessed On Golden Pond for FJ. I guess I was way off in more ways than one! 
 

I knew Finland, Victoria and Albert, Guggenheim, Billy the Kid Rock, and Felipe. 

[SomeTameGazelle]

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

I don't think it would have helped.  I don't remember Rose having anything to do with ceramics.

I don't know if I have ever seen Titanic all the way through and if so I certainly didn't remember it, but it turns out that old Rose was in fact doing pottery in the movie. Skip to about 1:14 in the clip.

 

I thought of Titanic but rejected it in favour of Ghost because of the pottery.

[ams1001]

18 minutes ago, SomeTameGazelle said:

I don't know if I have ever seen Titanic all the way through and if so I certainly didn't remember it, but it turns out that old Rose was in fact doing pottery in the movie. Skip to about 1:14 in the clip.

I totally forgot about that! Haven't seen the whole movie in quite some time...definitely not from the beginning.

Edited June 30, 2023 by ams1001

[Bastet]

Another game in bed with the sick kitty (she spent the day in the hospital, but nothing life-threatening in the test results thus far; it might "just" be a recurrence of an undiagnosed [despite so many tests and specialists already] issue that affects her digestive system), so no keeping track, but I know I did better than the contestants.

The bittersweet TS surprised me.

In the first round, I know I blew TV almost entirely -- I only knew Steve Buscemi and only because they had a picture.  Otherwise, I did well; I remember missing one in lit, but I think that was it.

I was every bit as bad as the contestants with historic shorts, only getting William the Conqueror, but other than that I did well in FJ; I'm pretty sure I either ran or got all but one in the rest.

I didn't get FJ, though; ceramics + '90s made me think of Ghost, but centenarian and narrator made no sense with that, so I knew that wasn't it.  I should have thought about old Rose narrating Titanic, but I hate that movie (well, I like quite a few things about it and find it visually stunning, but I loathe with the heat of a nova centering that stupid Rose-Jack romance, so it balances out to something I will never watch again other than select scenes if I'm going around the dial) had no idea the character was inspired by a real person, and have no recollection of that pottery scene, so it didn't come to me -- despite being so oh, of course in hindsight (not many other movies with centenarian characters, period, let alone among those popular enough to be the subject of a FJ clue).

[kathyk24]

I was yelling RICO at the TV they obviously never watched Law and Order. I was surprised nobody knew Freehold was Springsteen's hometown. I had no clue for most of the Historic Shorts category.

[30 Helens]

At least I wasn’t alone in getting stuck on Ghost, even though I knew it couldn’t be right: there were no hundred-year-old people and there was no narrator. Titanic never occurred to me.

53 minutes ago, Bastet said:

I hate that movie (well, I like quite a few things about it and find it visually stunning, but I loathe with the heat of a nova centering that stupid Rose-Jack romance

I found the movie very entertaining (well, as entertaining as it can be to watch a bunch of people die), but I never understood why he didn’t even try to hold onto that board. He didn’t have to climb on top, he could have just held the edge. Chivalry is one thing, pointless self-sacrifice is annoying.

[South]

9 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:

I learned today (at my coffee group) that other Jeopardy fans are also "particular" about some contestants. So I no longer feel guilty about getting irritated by various quirks. Last night, Bryan kept making a face each time his guess was correct. I've never seen any contestant do this before. Maybe tonight he'll be a bit calmer & won't be doing these grimaces. 

I noticed it, too.  But I think it actually comes a half-beat earlier than Mayim rules.   Amodio did the same thing.  It reminds me of a little kid that might smile after answering their teacher, as they wait in anticipation of acknowledgment.  Let’s watch tomorrow for his timing.

[South]

5 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

Few opinions are universal.  That's why they are opinions.

I went with the ceramics angle like Bryan did and said Ghost.

I went far afield and said Beauty and the Beast.  I couldn’t recall if Mrs Potts narrated or not, and I know the story itself far-predates the 90’s.  Still  it’s all I had.  I’ve seen neither Titanic nor Ghost, and I don’t recall the other pick.  Would I have gotten the sewer had I seen Ghost?  Probably not.  Mrs Potts left an impression, apparently, 

[chicagofan]

28 minutes ago, South said:

I went far afield and said Beauty and the Beast.  I couldn’t recall if Mrs Potts narrated or not, and I know the story itself far-predates the 90’s.  Still  it’s all I had.  I’ve seen neither Titanic nor Ghost, and I don’t recall the other pick.  Would I have gotten the sewer had I seen Ghost?  Probably not.  Mrs Potts left an impression, apparently, 

❤️ Angela Lansbury may she RIP.

[Katy M]

6 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

he could have just held the edge.

He was holding, he didn't drown, he died of hypothermia.  He was still holding on when Rose heard the rescue boat.  He was just dead.  presumably.  For all we know he could have still been saved at that point, but Rose thrust him away.

Edited June 30, 2023 by Katy M