S01.E03: Second Of His Name

[ferjy]

On 9/4/2022 at 11:57 PM, Constantinople said:

I get that Rhaenyra didn't want to harm the white hart, but maybe don't tell Ser Criston "No" when he's drawing his sword as a simple precaution. You selected him because he has real world experience and isn't just a tourney knight; you were almost killed by a wild boar the night before; and the white hart is much larger than the boar. So maybe let Ser Criston do his job?

I got the impression that there was a mystical connection between Rhaenyra and the hart, and she knew it wouldn’t hurt her. 

[goldilocks]

On 9/5/2022 at 1:20 AM, Cheezwiz said:

I know the crab feeder dude was some sort of pirate,

Wasn’t he a Prince that was actually getting rid of the pirates (nailing them to poles and letting the crabs eat then)? 

[ferjy]

On 9/4/2022 at 11:50 PM, mac123x said:

Daemon's dragon Caraxes has a distinctively long neck, plus the one Laenor was riding was smaller and chalky white.

I don’t mean to be racist, but they all look alike to me. 😁

[paigow]

39 minutes ago, goldilocks said:

Wasn’t he a Prince that was actually getting rid of the pirates (nailing them to poles and letting the crabs eat then)? 

No. He was a pirate working for the Free Cities to antagonize Westeros...

[CountryGirl]

5 hours ago, ferjy said:

I don’t mean to be racist, but they all look alike to me. 😁

Ceraxes (red):

Syrax (gold):

Seasmoke (silvery-gray):

Can you tell the dragons are my favorites?

[proserpina65]

11 hours ago, snickers said:

Rhanerya being 17 when she was 15 three years ago

She could easily be almost 18, depending on when her birthday is.

[king of bullshit]

On 9/5/2022 at 9:15 PM, CatWarmer said:

Didn't realize it while watching but saw online that Matt/Daemon did not speak at all in something like six minutes of screen time.  No dialogue at all in this episode.  Great conveyance of thoughts via face.  Actions speak louder than words!  I can just imagine the enemy forces thinking, why isn't he saying anything?  What's his game - better wait for him to tell us.  Oops!

Almost none. He spoke in the opening scene. "Come out and face me Drahar".

18 hours ago, Constantinople said:

Lord Lyonel Strong is the Lord of Harrenhal

Remember how enormous Harrenhal was in the opening scene? The upkeep to maintain the place must be huge, even if most of it is usually mothballed.

In addition to being the lord of the greatest money pit in the realm, Lord Strong is also keenly aware that Corlys Velaryon wants to marry his children into the royal family and that the Velaryon house is the wealthiest in the land

and later in that same scene

And in this episode Lord Strong once again refers to the Velaryon riches.

 

So he wishes the crown to become wealthier so that he might borrow money from a fatter purse? Hmm. Is that customary? For lords to borrow money from the king?

Actually, what constitutes the king's money vs that of the realm's anyway? As in, whatever repository taxes are presumably accumulated in for various financial undertakings on the king's decree.

Would that all be under the master of coin's domain?

I'm not assuming you must certainly know the answer to all these questions; just kind of wondering out loud...

[MBayGal]

In the photos posted by Country Girl, the differences among the dragons are quite obvious.  On screen, as they are swooping around, I don't notice  which is which.  Now that I have the visuals in my head, maybe I can tell them apart during the show.  Thanks CountryGirl!

[LadyChaos]

More than likely she just turned 15 in episode 1, and is on the verge of 18 in episode 3.

Viserys said in this ep: Every since you turned 17, Ive been buried in messages for your hand...and have been trying to talk to you about it but you refuse.....kind of implies she has been 17 for awhile....

However....even if she just turned 15 the week her mother died.....her father remarried 6/7 months after her death....assuming he got Alicent pregnant on their wedding night....babies come 9 months later....and we were celebrating Aegon's 2nd birthday on episode 3....

6months+9months+2years.....nevermind....they still suck at math.

[Roccos Brother]

20 hours ago, king of bullshit said:

In any case, showing up in the "nick of time" is a different criticism from showing up "not a minute sooner, not a minute later". The latter, when "sooner" is achievable -they'd already met the condition of drawing out the crabfeeder's men before Daemon was surrounded- as it was in this case, is done for drama. 

That's literally what I just said. "Nick of time" and "not a minute sooner, or later" both referring to the right time for heightened dramatic effect, that should have been obvious from the context. 

Not sure I fully understand this pedantic strawman argument you're making here.

Edited September 7, 2022 by Roccos Brother

[cambridgeguy]

3 hours ago, king of bullshit said:

Actually, what constitutes the king's money vs that of the realm's anyway? As in, whatever repository taxes are presumably accumulated in for various financial undertakings on the king's decree.

The King and the Realm are one and the same - it's not like he gets a salary, so he's always pulling from the royal treasury.  If you get a spendthrift like Robert then you have to borrow from rich lords or the Iron Bank

[king of bullshit]

3 hours ago, Roccos Brother said:

Not sure I fully understand this pedantic strawman argument you're making here.

Not sure what the argument is but you are sure of its pedantry and that its a straw man. Makes sense.

3 hours ago, Roccos Brother said:

That's literally what I just said. "Nick of time" and "not a minute sooner, or later" both referring to the right time for heightened dramatic effect, that should have been obvious from the context. 

"Nick of time" in common usage is used to refer to "not a minute later". You cut it close but made it right before the deadline. The implication being that you couldn't have arrived sooner but fortune prevented you from being too late.

"Not a minute sooner, or later" implies that you had the ability to arrive at any time but chose to wait for the perfect time.

As in, Velaryon forces arriving, not immediately after the crabfeeder's troops have been drawn out(their goal) but after they'd been drawn out, chased Daemon to whatever apparatus he'd been hiding under and then surrounded him for a couple of beats without making a move. 

They could have arrived sooner.

[Colorado David]

9 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

Ceraxes (red):

Syrax (gold):

Seasmoke (silvery-gray):

Can you tell the dragons are my favorites?

my fave so far is Seasmoke. kinda regal looking espeically in that pose.

[Daisychain]

I'm not going to re-quote as Colorado David did it perfectly.  Anyhoo, I love the dragon depictions in GOT and now.  Ceraxes is so slithery, lizardy, no?  So different than the GOT armored postures, which were more consistent with Syrax.  The smooth wingspan etc.  Meanwhile it was Sunday night so I completely forget Seasmoke's role.  Clearly, shoulda read the book.

[Raachel2008]

On 9/5/2022 at 10:06 PM, Jack Shaftoe said:

I am tired of characters in (pseudo-)medieval worlds being flabbergasted by the very idea of arranged marriages. Complaining about who is picked for them, sure, that's perfectly natural, but the idea itself is at the very core of the aristocracy system and should be almost as natural as breathing for any noble. Rhaenyra's father shouldn't need to remind her that his own marriage was arranged because duh. And in any event, he is so weak-willed that I don't see him forcing her into any marriage, even if it's super advantageous.

My take on this is not that Rhaenyra is against an arranged marriage per ser or that she doesn't get she will have to marry, but rather that her entire life she felt like the second best -- or no good at all - and since Aegon was born she was relagated to side but then times worse. Viserys is a weak king and also a dumb one, he decided Rhaenyra was going to be his heir but did nothing to enforce her claim or preprare her to really sit on the throne. He also doesn't get that he needs to talk to her. All she wants, like any teen feeling discarded, is to feel cared, loved and cherished. 

Had Rhaenyra killed that magnificent animal she would have done more to her claim to the throne than Viserys ever could.

I'm so ready to see Alicent just getting fed up with all that and say fucky you all, I'm the queen and I'm son will be king.

Otto suggesting Rhaenyra marries Aegon was actually an extremely smart move, because in a patriarchal society like this one he is counting that one way or another the boy ends sitting on the throne. By getting these two bethored he appeases Viserys, postpones the problem and secures his grandson lineage. Note that Viserys wasn't against the half-siblings marriage, his problem was the age gap.

I assume they spent so much money on the dragons GCI that they couldn't pay someone to took care of continuity and keep track of Laeonor age in the first episode and this one. That was ridiculous. 

You know what else was ridiculous? That with two dragons they couldn't just destroy these caves. This is why Idetest most of the dragons related war/battle stuff: in order to drag plots people it doesn't make sense. Daenerys could have taken King's Landing waaaay before she did - and without commiting mass murderer -; the final battle against the NIght King was extremely poorly executed and the dragons used the wrong way so our heros could suffer more, etc, etc. Just give me the wolves any day.

Daemon works better when he is not speaking, lol. Maybe it's Matt Smith's body type, maybe it is how they shoot it, but I totally bought Daemon's athleticism during the beach scene.

The Crab Feed could have been any pirate there. His mask, feeding his enemies to the crabs, war against the 'crown', whatever, meant nothing without the mininum of backstory. 

I don't buy for a second that all those pirates would be anywhere close to someone with greyscale. They went full retcon on this one.

[Roseanna]

On 9/7/2022 at 11:59 AM, ferjy said:

I got the impression that there was a mystical connection between Rhaenyra and the hart, and she knew it wouldn’t hurt her. 

I doubt it was to please the modern audience (cf. The Queen).

In the world we have seen in this series, Rhaenyra would have killed the hart in order to show all that she is fit to rule, indeed it's her destiny ordered by "gods".

[Uncle JUICE]

5 hours ago, Raachel2008 said:

You know what else was ridiculous? That with two dragons they couldn't just destroy these caves. This is why Idetest most of the dragons related war/battle stuff: in order to drag plots people it doesn't make sense. Daenerys could have taken King's Landing waaaay before she did - and without commiting mass murderer -; the final battle against the NIght King was extremely poorly executed and the dragons used the wrong way so our heros could suffer more, etc, etc. Just give me the wolves any day.

Puh-REACH. It's no small problem for the show. In the 100 + years since the Conquest, only one society has managed to resist dragons in a military sense, Dorne, and they were in the mountains of their home land basically doing guerilla warfare. I'm still not sure that makes perfect sense (supply lines are still required), but these are the Stepstones, and a band of pirates. It's like in order to ride a dragon you have to be a strategic idiot, and once you as the viewer recognize it, you can't unsee it. This very fact, as you point out, ruined 2 entire seasons of Game of Thrones. 

[Constantinople]

The symbolism of the white hart can be interpreted any way you want.

One way to interpret it is that one king, the white hart, acknowledged another, Rhaenyra (similar to the joke where the shark doesn't eat the lawyer due to professional courtesy).

Another is that the white hart rejected Rhaenyra by running away.

Another is that if Rhaenyra had killed the white hart -- leaving aside the how, since it would have been impossible under the circumstances -- and brought it back to camp, she would have solidified her claim.

The flipside of that is it's a bad idea for royalty to endorse the idea of killing another king.

And another is that neither Rhaenyra nor any other Targaryen should seek political legitimacy from the symbols of what is arguably a foreign culture. The white hart is a symbol of pre-conquest Westerosi royalty. Rhaenyra is Valyrian.

To paraphrase Daemon in the trailers,

Spoiler

"Deer didn't makes us kings, dragons did".

Or as Lady Olenna Tyrell told Daenerys in Game of Thrones, "You're a dragon. Be a dragon".

Or due its rarity the white hart is a freak and he and Rhaenyra are just a couple of freaks.

Make of it what you will.

[Colorado David]

oh my gosh, did NOT notice this!!!

[Uncle JUICE]

37 minutes ago, Colorado David said:

oh my gosh, did NOT notice this!!!

I noticed it, but tried not to because it will send me down another rabbit hole. I got the whole idea of the Sons of the Harpy in the GoT timeline (Danerys very publicly tearing down the statue and all it stood for atop the pyramid giving rise to this group makes sense), but I'm not exactly sure what the Sons would be doing (a) this far west and (b) what ideology would drive them 180ish years before Danerys is ever born. I'm not saying there's no explanation, but this seemed too cute by half to me. Give him another mask and I have zero questions and far less mental explaining to do!

Also why give him greyscale then expect me to believe people would be cool with huddling up in a cave with this dude for an extended period of time. All in all, this was not a villain worthy of being featured in both the opening of the episode and the last person seen in episode 2 (if I recall). He's basically a nobody as it turns out. 

[WatchrTina]

Quote

   ON 9/6/2022 AT 8:11 AM,  JACK SHAFTOE SAID: 

Why is Aegon referred to as "the second of his name" when he not only has not been crowned yet but isn't even the heir apparent? No prince has been named Aegon since the Conqueror? Or they reset the counter if the prince in question doesn't get the throne? :)

This is the right question.  That courtier who called him "second of his name" was committing treason in his hurry to suck up to the king.

In real English history (particularly during the War of the Roses, which was the inspiration for "Game of Thrones") there were lots of noble-born boys named Henry during the reigns of the various King Henrys of England.  But one doesn't get referred to as "Henry the __th" until one ascends the throne.  No mere prince would be called that.  The courtier in the show was openly presuming that Rhaenrya was no longer next in line to the throne, in defiance of the king's prior declaration, and thus he WAS committing treason in his hurry to suck up -- referring to the child by what he presumes will be the child's future regnal name.

Furthermore, in some cultures it is tradition to NOT name a child until it has survived its first year (due to the high incidence of infant mortality.)  Naming an infant is considered to be unlucky and thought of as tempting the fates.  We've never heard that tradition being specifically referenced in Westeros but it's not a stretch to think that such a tradition exists there.  It's reasonable that no one would have counted on an infant male heir surviving his first year (much less all the way to adulthood.)  So acknowledging the male prince for having survived to his first birthday with a celebration does make sense within this fictional culture.  But choosing to use the language "nth of his name" was an over-reach by the courtier who said it.  That language would never have happened if the acknowledged heir to the throne was a man. That courtier was openly presuming a change in the previously-declared line of succession.

(BTW, we know they call birthdays "name-days" in Westeros which, to my mind, means that baby Aegon should NOT have been named UNTIL his first birthday but, hey, I didn't get to write the script.)

[WatchrTina]

Here's an analysis of this episode by the good folks at New Rockstars:

Edited September 8, 2022 by WatchrTina

[Uncle JUICE]

8 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

(BTW, we know they call birthdays "name-days" in Westeros which, to my mind, means that baby Aegon should NOT have been named UNTIL his first birthday but, hey, I didn't get to write the script.)

Well read sir or madam...I'm going to hide it because it might be "book" spoiler-ish even though it has literally nothing to do with any plot and I'm not even sure it's correct, but I'm pretty certain...

Spoiler

...in the books you don't get a name until TWO years have passed, and he'd have simply been referred to as the prince. But don't quote me. 

Edited September 8, 2022 by Uncle JUICE

[Roccos Brother]

16 hours ago, king of bullshit said:

Not sure what the argument is but you are sure of its pedantry and that its a straw man. Makes sense.

"Not sure what the argument is" is clearly not the same as "Not sure I fully understand" since you're so keen on nitpicking one's exact wording. I'm surprised you don't apply your own standards to yourself. One can make assertions and still be open to the possibility of a misunderstanding of either some or even all aspects of an argument. It does make sense that not everyone chooses to be dogmatic. 

The crux of your argument that "nick of time" and "not a minute sooner, not a minute later" is inconsistent in meaning is irrelevant. The latter phrasing was in a post that was clearly hyperbolic and sarcastic, purposely making it tonally inconsistent with the post containing the "nick of time" phrasing. They shouldn't be judged in the same context unless you are just looking for an excuse to debate semantics. I am not interested in having that debate.

[Constantinople]

4 hours ago, Uncle JUICE said:

Well read sir or madam...I'm going to hide it because it might be "book" spoiler-ish even though it has literally nothing to do with any plot and I'm not even sure it's correct, but I'm pretty certain...

  Hide contents

...in the books you don't get a name until TWO years have passed, and he'd have simply been referred to as the prince. But don't quote me. 

Spoiler

I'm quoting you.h

That would mean Aegon was born 6 months before Episode 1.

• Aegon's 2nd name day anniversary took place in this episode
• If Age = Name Day Anniversary + 2, then Aegon is 4
• Episode 3 takes place 3 years after Episode 2 (Viserys mentioned the war in the Stepstones has been going for 3 years.
• Episode 2 takes place 6 months after Episode 1 (Corlys, Rhaenyra and Viserys mentioned this)

Edited September 8, 2022 by Constantinople

[Athena5217]

11 hours ago, Colorado David said:

oh my gosh, did NOT notice this!!!

Wow, I guess they spent all their money on CGI dragons and had to recycle costumes.

[Colorado David]

6 minutes ago, Athena5217 said:

Wow, I guess they spent all their money on CGI dragons and had to recycle costumes.

oh cmon now, you know it will tie into the later GoT timeline somehow. cant be random recycling.

[Athena5217]

16 minutes ago, Colorado David said:

oh cmon now, you know it will tie into the later GoT timeline somehow. cant be random recycling.

Right after we get the Viserys green glove reappearance showing us it was not an editing error.

[Roseanna]

23 hours ago, Raachel2008 said:

My take on this is not that Rhaenyra is against an arranged marriage per ser or that she doesn't get she will have to marry, but rather that her entire life she felt like the second best -- or no good at all - and since Aegon was born she was relagated to side but then times worse. Viserys is a weak king and also a dumb one, he decided Rhaenyra was going to be his heir but did nothing to enforce her claim or preprare her to really sit on the throne. He also doesn't get that he needs to talk to her. All she wants, like any teen feeling discarded, is to feel cared, loved and cherished. 

I agree that Viserys didn't do anything to make Rhaenyra's claim believable (in the second episode she was still only giving drinks to men instead of being a member of the council).

However, if this fantasy world is anything like the real world in the Middle Ages, there weren't "teens" in the modern sense. When people came of age, they were supposed to behave like adults and if you were born noble, you were internalized your duty towards your family (for a man to fight, to a woman to marry ja give birth to children). 

In Rhaenyra's case, she has roles of man and woman, but she had done anything but to mope which indicates that she has no skill to rule nor ambition for it. Although her father hasn't done anything to strengthen her position, she could have sought allies to herself. And the best way is to marry somebody who is powerful enough but who could let her be a full partner.  

Of course, Rhaenyra could fall in love with somebody unsuitable, which could create be a conflict love versus duty. 

[Roseanna]

15 hours ago, Constantinople said:

The symbolism of the white hart can be interpreted any way you want.

One way to interpret it is that one king, the white hart, acknowledged another, Rhaenyra (similar to the joke where the shark doesn't eat the lawyer due to professional courtesy).

Another is that the white hart rejected Rhaenyra by running away.

Another is that if Rhaenyra had killed the white hart -- leaving aside the how, since it would have been impossible under the circumstances -- and brought it back to camp, she would have solidified her claim.

The flipside of that is it's a bad idea for royalty to endorse the idea of killing another king.

And another is that neither Rhaenyra nor any other Targaryen should seek political legitimacy from the symbols of what is arguably a foreign culture. The white hart is a symbol of pre-conquest Westerosi royalty. Rhaenyra is Valyrian.

It's true that symbols can be different in the different cultures, but basically their *function* is simple, and it's the writers' job to make it clear to the audience if we don't know it beforehand. 

In the white deer's case, Rhaenyra would have either proven to be true heir by killing it (the hero usually succeeds in an "impossible task"), or the killing would have meant breaking the taboo that had angered "gods and thus led to unfortune to her and the whole country.

[Uncle JUICE]

13 hours ago, Constantinople said:

  Reveal spoiler

I'm quoting you.h

That would mean Aegon was born 6 months before Episode 1.

• Aegon's 2nd name day anniversary took place in this episode
• If Age = Name Day Anniversary + 2, then Aegon is 4
• Episode 3 takes place 3 years after Episode 2 (Viserys mentioned the war in the Stepstones has been going for 3 years.
• Episode 2 takes place 6 months after Episode 1 (Corlys, Rhaenyra and Viserys mentioned this)

I had it totally wrong anyway, according to woiaf. It's basically a birthday. So why not say birthday? Who knows. 

[cambridgeguy]

5 hours ago, Roseanna said:

In Rhaenyra's case, she has roles of man and woman, but she had done anything but to mope which indicates that she has no skill to rule nor ambition for it. Although her father hasn't done anything to strengthen her position, she could have sought allies to herself. And the best way is to marry somebody who is powerful enough but who could let her be a full partner.  

Ned Stark realized how powerful the previous king's word is once he dies.  The only people who might be on her side right now are her mom's relatives and anyone who loathes the Hightowers.  She'll want more when the time comes.

[paigow]

2 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

The only people who might be on her side right now are her mom's relatives and anyone who loathes the Hightowers.  She'll want more when the time comes.

She needs someone with a vast network of spies... like a brothel owner... or a mid-level Lord

[CeeBeeGee]

On 9/4/2022 at 10:36 PM, Stardancer Supreme said:

I'm also going to have to ding Corlys and his people for poor war waging; if the Crabfeeder is able to go underground in caves, why not figure out how to collapse the caves and entomb the men?  And it took you 3 years to simply send someone to the caves to draw the Crabfeeder and his men out?  Yeesh. Daemon didn't have to nearly kill the messenger, though. 

I kept wondering, why didn't they just seal up the entrance to the caves? A few days of being stuck inside a cave with Ol' Greyscale and I'd hotfoot it out of there very quickly.

On 9/4/2022 at 10:41 PM, dramachick said:

The battle scenes would have been more meaningful to me if the show had provided some background on the Crab-Feeder dude. Daemon was brave and strong and all that, but I knew he would win versus a villain in a mask who never said a word.  During that scene, I thought about a conversation between Jorah and Daenerys about some Targaryan relative that she was bragging about. Jorah said something like, "Targaryon was strong; Targaryon was brave; Targaryon got killed."

It was her older brother, Rhaegar, the one who was killed in battle by Robert Baratheon (and the one who threw over his wife for Lyanna Stark).

On 9/4/2022 at 11:06 PM, Athena5217 said:

Poor Alicent looks like she could go into labor at any moment, and her dad still wants her to do his work for him. 

Ugh, I kind of despise Hightower now. Just leave Alicent alone! She's already done enough for you.

On 9/4/2022 at 11:09 PM, Constantinople said:

I was disappointed with all the build up about the Crab Feeder only for it to all be over in a few minutes and to have the Crab Feeder killed offscreen. And has been noted, why did it take three years?

So Daemon, and by extension Corlys, are the kind of guys that will waive a flag of surrender as a ruse? And people wonder why Daemon has a bad reputation.

Yeah, I could give a **** about the CF and his minions--anyone who would torture people like that deserves the end he got--but there are in fact commonly accepted laws of war and waving the white flag as a trick is going to give him a bad reputation. And even worse, attacking the messenger--that is a big no no. (FTR, I hated it when they did that in 300, pushed the envoy into the bottomless pit toward the beginning of the movie. Huge no no and King Leonidas's rep would've been toast after that. It doesn't matter how provocative they are, you aren't allowed to attack the messenger.)

On 9/5/2022 at 7:40 AM, Haleth said:

Ha!  I was thinking of this too.  Serpentine, Riccon Matt Daemon!

Man, the CF archers suuuuuuck.

On 9/6/2022 at 7:04 AM, Pestilentia said:

Crab is the fruit of the sea. You can barbecue it, boil it, broil it, bake it, saute it. There's crab-kabobs, crab creole, crab gumbo. Pan fried, deep fried, stir-fried. There's crab stew, crab salad, crab burger, crab sandwich. They're not hungry.

Now I'm hungry!

[jeansheridan]

On 9/4/2022 at 7:45 PM, Jaundiced Eye said:

I'm confused about where the third dragon came from. And who was riding it? Was it one of the Sea Snake's relatives? That family line can also ride dragons, not just the Targaryens?

It was his son. His mother was a dragon rider and so is he. Laedes I think? Struggling with names. Grateful for Otto Hightower and Jason Lannister!

[jeansheridan]

Three eps in and I don't really care about anyone. I think this is a major problem. But the show looks wonderful. And the battle was decent. Matt Smith was convincing.  

Also Rhaenyra has charisma. When she strides through camp covered in blood from her kill. I think the transition to the next actress will be jarring and unneeded. This actress is actually older than the one taking over. 

Same with Alicient. I actually was excited to see the adult lead before. I have liked her in many things but I like this Alicient so far and will be bummed when she leaves. Casting matters! Charisma matters especially in CGI shows.

[Uncle JUICE]

32 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

Grateful for Otto Hightower and Jason Lannister!

Me too, but only because it makes possible that one day a Frank Lannister or a Mark Velarion shows up. Not everyone can have cool names!

[Colorado David]

4 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Man, the CF archers suuuuuuck.

I dunno about that, from that distance you gotta lead big time, and arrows are not fast like bullets, so a dodging target might be tough to get. and daemon has leading character armor.

[Scarlett45]

10 hours ago, Uncle JUICE said:

I had it totally wrong anyway, according to woiaf. It's basically a birthday. So why not say birthday? Who knows. 

I always assumed a "Name-Day" is the day you are officially named, (which likely occurs shortly after birth) most cultures have a "present infant to society" tradition (like baptisms or a bris etc) and that is what is celebrated to mark your milestones rather than the actual day you were born. So Aegon may be 2 yrs and 3 weeks old or something like that.

[cambridgeguy]

1 hour ago, jeansheridan said:

I think the transition to the next actress will be jarring and unneeded. This actress is actually older than the one taking over. 

????? Milly Alcock is 22, Emma D'Arcy is 30

[CountryGirl]

1 hour ago, jeansheridan said:

Three eps in and I don't really care about anyone. I think this is a major problem. But the show looks wonderful. And the battle was decent. Matt Smith was convincing.  

Also Rhaenyra has charisma. When she strides through camp covered in blood from her kill. I think the transition to the next actress will be jarring and unneeded. This actress is actually older than the one taking over. 

Same with Alicient. I actually was excited to see the adult lead before. I have liked her in many things but I like this Alicient so far and will be bummed when she leaves. Casting matters! Charisma matters especially in CGI shows.

Milly Alcock (teenage Rhaenyra) is 22.

Emma D'arcy (older Rhaenyra) is 30. 

[shang yiet]

Yes, Viserys is slow on the uptake. Every episode, they have to tell him the freaking obvious to get him to act. "A King needs to remarry, sire new heirs, hunt the white stag, end the war on the Stepstones..." They practically spelled it out for him.. marry Laena to join two Houses... like Viserys can't figure out anything for himself.

Speaking of marriage proposals, surely the King himself should have had to deal an avalanche of offers from the other Houses pushing forward a maiden daughter or niece. But the show acted like Laena or Alicent were the only two eligible high-born girls in the whole of Westeros.

The princess is taking the wrong tack if she wants to be accepted as heiress. First, don't sulk under a tree and avoid family functions. A future Queen needs to be seen all over the place by the side of her father.

And don't spend two years cold-shouldering your stepmum. You're practically begging her to retaliate by getting her own son named as heir.

I was surprised the Crabfeeder was dispatched so easily, I thought they were setting him up a season one villain.

[jeansheridan]

1 hour ago, CountryGirl said:

Milly Alcock (teenage Rhaenyra) is 22.

Emma D'arcy (older Rhaenyra) is 30. 

Oops. Another site flipped their ages. I think I will miss Millie. 8 years isn't that big of a gap and she looks in her twenties. I know Olivia Cooke is an intense actress so to see the change from teen Alicient will be a lot. I like Olivia so excited for her but not sure why they couldn't start with them. She can pass for 18 given make-up and lighting. She's only 28 too.

[jeansheridan]

7 hours ago, paigow said:

She needs someone with a vast network of spies... like a brothel owner... or a mid-level Lord

This is the point her father wisely made to her. Build up your own allies! He knows she will need them. She's young but being a bit foolish right now. Clearly people have some admiration for her. Or maybe she's a curiosity. 

I don't think being a cup bearer is that insulting if she keeps her ears open and learns. When she is sent to choose a new Kings Guard she steps up literally and has logic on her side if not long term strategic thinking. Otto wasn't wrong about building alliances and she wasn't wrong either. Based on this ep she chose well and has his personal loyalty.

[Roseanna]

On 9/6/2022 at 1:47 PM, Jack Shaftoe said:

The Vietnam conflict didn't go well for the US because they didn't want to use their WMDs, i.e. the equivalent of dragons. And contrary to what Hollywood movies usually show, the US wasn't fighting just Viet Cong but also the regular army of North Vietnam (supported by a rival superpower). If the US were fighting a force small enough to be wiped out in a single WMD strike and were willing to use said WMD, the war wouldn't have lasted a week, let alone years. I am aware that it's hard to come up with enemies who can pose a real problem for dragons (and the opposite extreme is just as silly - see Euron and his magical ballistae in GoT) but still the writers could have tried a bit harder to make the military campaign somewhat believable.

I doubt if it makes sense to compare a war in a fantasy world with the modern unbalanced war, especially as in the former it was enough to kill all pirates, rogues or whatever they were and in the latter it's not enough to win the war but win the peace, that is, to win the hearts and minds of the people representing quite another culture.

It may look like a great power has superior weapons and resources but in fact, it has always other places where its resources are needed and therefore it can't use them all against a small enemy. It usually has a limited time in order to gain success and can eventually to come to conclusion that has sacrificed too much men and money for a goal that isn't worth it. Instead, if a small, determined enemy that knows the territory and has the support of the people, is willing to use all means and sacrifice so much and so long as is needed, it can finally make the great power to retreat.    

[WatchrTina]

Here's the commentary on this episode by the good folks at Alt-Shift-X

Edited September 10, 2022 by WatchrTina

[Roseanna]

On 9/8/2022 at 9:29 AM, Raachel2008 said:

Otto suggesting Rhaenyra marries Aegon was actually an extremely smart move, because in a patriarchal society like this one he is counting that one way or another the boy ends sitting on the throne. By getting these two bethored he appeases Viserys, postpones the problem and secures his grandson lineage. Note that Viserys wasn't against the half-siblings marriage, his problem was the age gap.

The age gap would mean that that marriage couldn't be consummated until Aegon would be at least 14-15 years of age and that then Rhaenyra would be almost 30 and her ability to bear children would begin to lessen.  Also, there is no guarantee that Viserys wouldn't die before the marriage.  

I think that Otto's smartest move would be to get Rhaenyra fall in love, and elope, with a man who couldn't give her any resources to the power competion, f.ex. her bodyguard.

[Roseanna]

Irl, In the patriarchal and martial society there were also valid reasons why a woman couldn't be a ruler. First, she couldn't fight in the war nor lead an army. Or if she did, she could and become a prisoner and be raped, become pregnant and forced to marry her rapist. Second, she couldn't act independently in the society but she had always a legal guardian, a father, brother, husband or son. If a queen married a foreigner, her realm could become ruled by him.

All that doesn't mean that women wouldn't have soft power. A wise man would listen to his wife who had brought him land and allies and born him sons and who he had noticed to evaluate people accurately. Of course, a wise wife would give her counsel in private.    

[millennium]

On 9/4/2022 at 11:56 PM, magdalene said:

They were fighting against people who were torturing people to death being eaten alive by crabs.

Forget Daemon.   Here's who they should have called.

Edited September 11, 2022 by millennium

[Ottis]

On 9/4/2022 at 8:15 PM, edhopper said:

So it took them how many years to figure out a strategy to get the Crab Eaters out of the caves? That is some bad generaling,

That was awful. There was no reason to assume more than a couple of men would come out initially when Daemon offered his sword, no reason to think Daemon could fight them off alone, and no reason to assume all the crab people would then charge out to be easy prey for the dragon. That was all amateurish.