S01.E01: A Normal Amount of Rage

[quarks]

I'm going to agree with the "liked it, didn't love it" - at least, so far.  And with the comments that the whole scene about "I control my anger all the time" kinda fell with a thud. I got what they were going for - don't get me wrong - but it felt extremely heavy handed, to the point of taking me out of the scene. Even by the standards of CW television shows, which this clearly is not. (For one thing, much bigger budget!) And that Jen seemed to adjust far too quickly to the idea of having superpowers.  I know, I know, the show needs to move on to the actual plot, and the main comic book concept was that Jen likes being big and green, so it was great to see that echoed here, but...again, this was something that didn't quite land for me. I felt Jen in the TV show should 

And that the mid-credits scene, while legitimately hilarious, raised more questions than it answered.

(And also reminded me of how much I hated that ending for Steve Rogers. Again, got what the film was going for, but, auuugh. Oh well. In my head we are watching a heavily redacted version that has concealed the real truth - Steve and Natasha are off on some other planet together, happily living their best lives, occasionally thinking that they should probably contact Thor and ask him to bring them some beer and pizza and then realizing that Thor would never, ever, ever be able to keep this a secret. This is my little headcanon and I am staying with it.)

[tennisgurl]

I thought this was really fun, just what I wanted it to be. Tatiana is such a great actress, she's so charismatic and multitalented, she's going to be a great Jen. I don't blame her for being not so excited to jump right into being a superhero, she already has a job and life she loves, but Bruce is right about this being inevitable. She's been a Hulk for a few months, and a supervillain has already literally crashed into her day job. Jen's already super relatable, she cries during Pixar movies, is very invested in Steve Rogers's love life, and makes immediate friends with drunk girls in bar bathrooms. I love drunk girls in bar bathrooms, you will never meet a more instantly ride or die friend. 

I am really happy to see Bruce and hear more about how he'd doing. Even though we haven't seen her before, I totally buy them as cousins who love each other but bicker like family. I already heard some people complaining about how Jen is instantly better than Bruce at everything, and I don't think that's really what is happening. Bruce is still clearly stronger, a lot of his Hulk control stuff comes from his mental health issues, which Jen doesn't have the way he does, so she can easily control her Hulk inside. They might go for a dynamic where Bruce is stronger whole Jen is more precise. I also thought the bits about Bruce's memories of Tony were really sweet and sad, he obviously still misses him a lot and I am glad that they got to hang out a lot before Endgame. In general Bruce seems rather lonely, all of the OG Avengers are dead, in space, or retired, I think a big reason he was really pushing Jen to become a superhero was because he was excited about the idea of his cousin sticking around. I hope that we get at least one more Bruce appearance. 

I hope they can add more fourth wall breaking, that such a fun, memorable part of She-Hulk comics. They seem to be going for a bit of a Fleabag vibe with the fourth wall breaking as well. 

Edited August 20, 2022 by tennisgurl

[SnarkShark]

2 hours ago, KeithJ said:

I liked it but Titania’s introduction seemed a bit weird.  She just breaks into the courtroom, starts attacking random people, and then She Hulk knocks her out.  It was a bit random, especially since she didn’t even know who She Hulk was.  I hope they at least give a little explanation why she did it.

She's appearing again, so I think you can count on that.

[paigow]

23 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

In general Bruce seems rather lonely, all of the OG Avengers are dead, in space, or retired,

He could move to New Asgard ... or invite the AntMan crew to live in Mexico... or move in with Wong to defend the Sanctum

[GHScorpiosRule]

32 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

She's been a Hulk for about a week and a supervillain has already literally crashed into her day job.

It’s been a few months, as Jen stated when she broke the fourth wall.

[Danny Franks]

Hooked. I love Tatiana Maslany She's so freakin' funny but also an amazing dramatic actress. This show is immediately sharp and exactly as self-aware of its own ridiculousness as the Shulkie comic book.

The origin of the character has always been daft, so they don't dwell on it, and the fact that she doesn't have a dual personality has always been odd, so they don't dwell on it.

I have to laugh at Tatiana 'accidentally' calling her character Shrek multiple times on the CBB podcast, because there is a hint of that. She's a bit too smooth textured to look quite real. But the CGI is definitely better than it looked in the early teaser.

I really enjoyed the interplay between Jen and Bruce - his tinges of jealousy over sharing his powers and his proprietary attitude towards Hulkiness. But there's such an undercurrent of sadness in Bruce, with his reminiscing over Tony, Nat and Steve, hiding in his lab and the sense that he was also happy to share his life with someone else.

The petty, childish aspect of their Hulk-fight was very sibling-like, and sold me on them being cousins who've always been close.

It was on the nose, but I enjoyed the point about women always having to reign in their anger for their own safety while men are generally able to just act out and rage about things without suffering serious consequences. I'm sure that scene upset a lot of a certain type of person.

[Bruinsfan]

I too am in the liked-but-didn't-love crowd. Tatiana's doing a great job as Jen, she was instantly likeable and had me in her corner from the introductory scene. I liked the chemistry between her and Ruffalo, but I thought a lot of his line readings as the Hulk were flat, like he was phoning it in. I hope that was a deliberate choice for the studied calm of the character and not an indicator that he's grown bored with his role.

I agree that Jen accepting that she's a pretty green version of a werewolf in about three minutes is maybe a little too pat, but then again the theme of the series is supposed to be her wacky adventures, not a realistic exploration of how life-upsetting such a transformation would be.

Edited August 19, 2022 by Bruinsfan

[paigow]

2 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

I agree that Jen accepting that she's a pretty green version of a werewolf in about three minutes is maybe a little too pat, but then again the theme of the series is supposed to be her wacky adventures, not a realistic exploration of how life-upsetting such a transformation would be.

Bruce also did not have The Talk about Hulk sex hazards [at least on-screen]

[Smad]

I applaud the show for giving the main character every negative, sexist stereotype that is ascribed to women. Probably the only funny thing in  this show so far.

[arc]

2 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

I agree that Jen accepting that she's a pretty green version of a werewolf in about three minutes is maybe a little too pat

Werewolves (and Bruce’s Hulk, original version) have the big downside of being uncontrollably violent. Jen’s Hulk just needs her life to accommodate a larger body (clothes, furniture, home), and she doesn’t even have to deal with the occasional downsides of being too tall & big if she doesn’t want to. She won the gamma lottery and there’s no taxes either! Aside from Hulk/superhero life being weirder than she’s used to.

Gao said that at Kevin Feige’s original encouragement, they wrote a lot more of the show with Jen in her She-Hulk form but then had to dial it back for cost reasons. (And in the comics, most of the time Jen loves being She-Hulk and while she can change forms at will, she prefers to be a Hulk.)

[Fukui San]

It’s funny that being a comics reader usually means you’ve never seen most characters’ origin story. 99% of characters are already established when you start following comics, with only occasional allusions to the origin stories. Very few new characters are introduced who will have lasting impact. The Marvel Universe just always had a She-Hulk to me, a Black Panther, a Daredevil. But movies and TV right now heavily emphasize origin stories, even repeating them for reboots. Of all the characters in the MCU and D+ shows, I’d say that I’ve read the origin issues of only Kate Bishop, Jessica Jones and The Runaways. Ms. Marvel would’ve been possible for me, but I didn’t happen to read it. Can’t think offhand of anyone else I witnessed the origin of, until they do Thunderbolts and import the Claremont X-Men. 

[vb68]

Regarding that mid-credit scene, did anybody else hear Cap shouting "Language!!!" at Jen (probably along with other things)? It would had been great if they had Bruce say it.

[Spartan Girl]

3 hours ago, WatcherUatl10 said:

In the comics Jen gets visited by cousin Bruce after years, and they ARE in a car together when mob hitmen shoot at them because Jen is crusading against them as I THINK a D.A. or A.D.A., and she's very close to taking them down. Bruce gives her a life-saving transfusion, and deposits her at an emergency room, because he is on the run. She Hulks out when the mob tracks her down to finish her off. This origin makes HER the heroic one, attempting to rescue an unconscious Bruce, and Bruce is in a MUCH different situation in the Marvelmovieverse than he was in the comics, so the original recipe wouldn't have worked perfectly. I wish they had at least kept the transfusion bit, though, as blood falling into an open wound reminded me of the panic over AIDS back in the day, when everyone assumed such accidents could occur and treated gays accordingly. Besides, a transfusion is much MORE of the Gamma-irradiated blood entering Jen's system.

It would be nice if the MCU tried to be more accurate to the comics…but why start now? 🙄

[Stardancer Supreme]

11 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

 She's been a Hulk for about a week and a supervillain has already literally crashed into her day job. 

Actually, going by her words, and I wish that the director made the time difference clearer, Jen had been a Hulk for a few months. It just looked like she became a Hulk and bam! was back to her life relatively quickly.  Bruce was trying to keep her on that island for years. I'll say that she was with him for 3-4 months before she decided to go home.

[paigow]

9 hours ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

Actually, going by her words, and I wish that the director made the time difference clearer, Jen had been a Hulk for a few months.

Banner must be an excellent hairdresser because regular Jen had perfect hair for 3 months.....

[LadyChaos]

On 8/18/2022 at 10:39 PM, arc said:

This way makes Bruce less irresponsible than him knowingly donating gamma-tainted blood.

Was that the comic book origin?

[shapeshifter]

14 minutes ago, LadyChaos said:

Was that the comic book origin?

LOL, @LadyChaos, when I just happened to click on your avatar to read it’s words! So perfect for your question😆. 
But I’d be an even worse superhero and just send the bat signal to voice mail and don’t even really care about either of their origin stories in any universe unless it’s germane to the current plot.😁 
And then I want and expect to be spoon-fed the relevant origin story flavor of the season.

[Smad]

16 minutes ago, LadyChaos said:

Was that the comic book origin?

She needed a life saving blood transfusion from someone with similar blood (aka family), so there was no other choice than Bruce. But apparently one family member saving another makes one 'irresponsible'. It's much more responsibly done in this show though. What with Jen fulfilling the cliché of 'women can't drive', getting into an accident and almost killing another family member and because of that getting infected. Total improvement.

[paigow]

14 minutes ago, Smad said:

 What with Jen fulfilling the cliché of 'women can't drive', getting into an accident

This situation is not gender based. She could crash into a flying saucer, or drive off the road. Choosing the more survivable option is rational.

[Raja]

If anything the Jen original reminded me of the Bill Bixby version of  David Bruce Banner getting into his failed experiment because people showed extraordinary abilities under stress. One being a wife or mother lifting an overturned car.

The pre MCU versions the Hulk is a monster just saving a life but creating a monster in the process is not something a hero would do, but perhaps if he was just reacting. I think it was the MCU Hulk but it might have been Ang Lee's which teased a super villain being made after being exposed to a drop of the Hulk's blood so Jen didn't faze me at all. 

[Abra]

I'm not sure how I feel about this. I like Tatiana as Jen, and the character of Nikki. The CGI is...not great, but I suppose I could get used to it. I will always be upset about the MCU character assassination of Bruce Banner since Age of Ultron onward, so seeing him on screen now is always a bit sad, and then they had to make it clear how lonely he is now on top of it. It's weird hearing Jameela Jamil with an American accent.

Did anyone notice how Bruce said Steve isn't a virgin, and not wasn't? Deliberate, or did Feige just miss it in the script?

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, paigow said:

...not gender based. She could crash into a flying saucer, or drive off the road. Choosing the more survivable option is rational.

1 hour ago, Smad said:

 What with Jen fulfilling the cliché of 'women can't drive', getting into an accident

In a very rural, mountainous county in Northern California that resembled the scenes in this episode, I took a Traffic Violators Class.
While there were no flying saucers to worry about in my area, the friendly CHP instructor gave clear instructions on how to survive unanticipated encounters on the road:

• A deer or anything smaller? Do not swerve. Better to hit it than kill you and your passengers or passengers in an oncoming car. 
• An elk? Get down low in the seat so your head is below the windshield or you will be decapitated.
• Flying saucer? 

Okay. He did not cover flying saucer. 
I guess it depends upon the saucer driver and construction of the saucer?

Anyway, Jen did a much better job of keeping her eyes on the road while they were talking and she was driving than Theo did in a recent episode of Only Murders In The Building.

[Smad]

1 hour ago, paigow said:

This situation is not gender based. She could crash into a flying saucer, or drive off the road. Choosing the more survivable option is rational.

Except it is, so much of Jen is a cliché of bad sexist stereotypes. I guess we are also going to ignore the fact that she didn't watch the road and saw the big spaceship because she was too busy displaying another cliché with 'women are gossips'. Quite frankly she could have driven under the ship, there seemed be enough room. Jen is a terribly written character displaying so many sexist clichés but hey, to each their own I guess. She is also utterly unbelievable as a lawyer, she would not make it a day in the courtroom. Hell she probably wouldn't pass the bar to begin with. I guess it's too much to ask these days to get well written characters. My bad.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Smad said:

Except it is, so much of Jen is a cliché of bad sexist stereotypes.

To me a character simply displaying characteristics negatively ascribed to women does make them a cliche or sexist. The behavior associated with sexist cliches are generally rooted in reality. The problem is when characters only display those traits and how those traits are interpreted.

I wouldn’t call Jen fixating in Steve’s virginity gossiping. Mainly because she was talking to her relative who was friends with Steve. Women having those conversations it is labeled as gossip but when men have very similar conversations it doesn’t get that label. 

Even if it is gossiping I wouldn’t consider it to be a sexist cliche because she didn’t display most of the other characteristics associated with gossips. 

On 8/19/2022 at 8:37 AM, Danny Franks said:

It was on the nose, but I enjoyed the point about women always having to reign in their anger for their own safety while men are generally able to just act out and rage about things without suffering serious consequences. I'm sure that scene upset a lot of a certain type of person.

I also enjoyed it. As someone who has had similar conversations about how we have to adapt to be safe I appreciated how on the nose is was. 

[Smad]

27 minutes ago, Dani said:

To me a character simply displaying characteristics negatively ascribed to women does make them a cliche or sexist. The behavior associated with sexist cliches are generally rooted in reality. The problem is when characters only display those traits and how those traits are interpreted.

I wouldn’t call Jen fixating in Steve’s virginity gossiping. Mainly because she was talking to her relative who was friends with Steve. Women having those conversations it is labeled as gossip but when men have very similar conversations it doesn’t get that label. 

Even if it is gossiping I wouldn’t consider it to be a sexist cliche because she didn’t display most of the other characteristics associated with gossips.

I'm not just talking about the driving scene here. There were many others cliche stereotypes displayed by Jen during the episode. But I'm not looking to convince anyone. I just see things differently. And I ask for better writing from Marvel both for story and character in these projects because I know it an be done. Other people don't see anything wrong or don't care and that's fine.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Smad said:

I'm not just talking about the driving scene here.

Neither was I. 

[jacehan]

I do not understand any of the people making comments about Jen's skill as a lawyer when we barely saw her act as on in this episode.

[Raja]

42 minutes ago, jacehan said:

I do not understand any of the people making comments about Jen's skill as a lawyer when we barely saw her act as on in this episode.

The critics and video makers have seen 4 episodes 

[MrWhyt]

9 hours ago, Smad said:

She needed a life saving blood transfusion from someone with similar blood (aka family), so there was no other choice than Bruce. But apparently one family member saving another makes one 'irresponsible'.

Knowingly giving someone tainted blood is irresponsible

9 hours ago, Smad said:

What with Jen fulfilling the cliché of 'women can't drive',

ah yes the old cliche of "women can't drive when they're surprised by a spaceship appearing in their path" seen it a million times.

[Smad]

4 hours ago, jacehan said:

I do not understand any of the people making comments about Jen's skill as a lawyer when we barely saw her act as on in this episode.

She-Hulk writers: 'We have no idea about lawyers or courtrooms or anything. We also didn't consult with someone who does know.'

There is your clue #1 as to her 'skill'. Clue #2...you have met Jen, that's all the clues you need. If you want to see an actual kick ass female lawyer and how they conduct themselves, watch some Camille Vasquez.

22 minutes ago, MrWhyt said:

Knowingly giving someone tainted blood is irresponsible

Better to let your family member die then I guess.

[MrWhyt]

7 minutes ago, Smad said:

Better to let your family member die then I guess.

I didn't say it shouldn't have happened, I said it was irresponsible.

[Ottis]

Not a fan. Too anti-male, too blase. I loved Orphan Black and was looking forward to Tatiana in this role, but I don’t know if she is good in this. She doesn’t land the humor in this. 

[Stardancer Supreme]

I am amazed at how a fun, woman led show reads as against men to certain people...

[RedElf]

On 8/18/2022 at 12:27 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Pretty fun start, but I think part of me wishes that the first episode was more about Jen's normal life and colleagues, and then maybe start diving into the origin story stuff and Bruce for the second episode. 

Do you think that people would have even come back for the second episode if they hadn't see the Hulk in the first one?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Smad said:

Better to let your family member die then I guess.

Better to let them die than knowingly give them tainted blood which could kill them or possibly turn them into a uncontrollable rage monster? Absolutely if it was me on either end of that blood transfusion. 

29 minutes ago, RedElf said:

Do you think that people would have even come back for the second episode if they hadn't see the Hulk in the first one?

It’s a highly anticipated Marvel series with multiple cameos outside of the Hulk so I absolutely think people would have. 

It has a different target audience than many Marvel projects but that doesn’t mean there isn’t an audience for it. 

[RedElf]

8 hours ago, Smad said:

she was too busy displaying another cliché with 'women are gossips'.

But I guess when Bruce does it, it's ok?

10 minutes ago, Dani said:

It’s a highly anticipated Marvel series with multiple cameos outside of the Hulk so I absolutely think people would have. 

It has a different target audience than many Marvel projects but that doesn’t mean there isn’t an audience for it. 

YMMV

[SnarkShark]

12 hours ago, paigow said:

Banner must be an excellent hairdresser because regular Jen had perfect hair for 3 months.....

She wasn't in Mexico that whole time.  She was fairly clear she'd been BACK for months.

1 hour ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

I am amazed at how a fun, woman led show reads as against men to certain people...

This has been review bombed even worse than Ms. Marvel:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/lifestyle-buzz/she-hulk-review-bombed-before-first-episode/ar-AA10Q2Ns

They have tiny little things in their pants and feel threatened somehow.

[shapeshifter]

9 minutes ago, SnarkShark said:

This has been review bombed even worse than Ms. Marvel:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/lifestyle-buzz/she-hulk-review-bombed-before-first-episode/ar-AA10Q2Ns

They have tiny little things in their pants and feel threatened somehow.

Maslany's acting chops may just shut them the fvck up.
This kerfuffle makes me want to keep watching.

[Fukui San]

It's weird how their mantra is "Get Woke, Go Broke" when it's the people who released the Snyder Cut who are going broke.

[jacehan]

6 hours ago, Raja said:

The critics and video makers have seen 4 episodes 

I'm not talking about critics, I'm talking about normal people (like the ones in this topic).

[kay1864]

16 hours ago, paigow said:

Banner must be an excellent hairdresser because regular Jen had perfect hair for 3 months

The Incredible Fabulous Hulk!

[arc]

On 8/18/2022 at 7:22 PM, Athena5217 said:

There are a lot of improbable things I am willing to accept in a superhero show, but it really bugged me that Jen’s hair became longer and straighter when she hulked out

Hair is dead cells! It's very weird that it retracts when she reverts to regular human form!

But then again, the show went out of its way to show that Jen just gains a ton of mass out of nowhere when she hulks out, which is also super duper unrealistic. (If you think the MCU making every kind of Wakandan advanced technology based on vibranium being a super-element is bad, wait till you see how Hulk comics attribute a dozen different crazy things to gamma radiation.) Comics!

[kay1864]

On 8/18/2022 at 10:22 PM, Athena5217 said:

Jen’s hair became longer and straighter when she hulked out.

And her boobs got bigger. Bigger muscles I can understand, but bigger boobs makes no more sense than the hair length. 

[CletusMusashi]

Meanwhile, even when Bruce is in his gamma-improved superhuman form, he still has to wear glasses in order to be "smart."

[starri]

A friendly reminder of the Primetimer Be Civil policy.  You are free to voice your opinions on the show, but you need to do it in a respectful manner.

[marketdoctor]

I'm on the fence between "like" and "love":

Loved:  Fantastic acting, with what is still a very fictional premise, especially the leads.

Missing the spaceship was a very plausible accident, because really, how often do you look up when you're driving compared to forward?  Also that they were sending a message is either an Easter Egg for something else in the MCU, or just really good, really expensive world-building.

The spaceship CGI.

The "normal amount of rage" speech, and that they didn't have her get visibly greener/stronger, because she still had it under control.

The "I'm ready for my closing argument now" button line. 

Liked:  the rest of the CGI.  I'm not sure if they cleaned it up since the promos a little, or I got used to it, or both?  It's better, though it's not great.

That Jen didn't pick up on how Bruce didn't want to discuss Steve's sex life; this would be a "dislike" but it set up the end credits scene.

That it's still a little unclear as to if Jen is superheroing in her spare time, or has solely focused on being a lawyer, since she got back from Mexico.

That she told her team.  This puts them more in danger, BUT it lets them help out, as with the shoes.

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

Meanwhile, even when Bruce is in his gamma-improved superhuman form, he still has to wear glasses in order to be "smart."

Hah! True. But Bruce was a little gray around the edges, right? That gives him the "needs readers" excuse too. 
But definitely those are not Clark Kent glasses. 

[Ottis]

18 hours ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

I am amazed at how a fun, woman led show reads as against men to certain people...

When Bruce first began to work with Jen on how to handle becoming a Hulk, and the draconian changes it would force her to make to her life, my first thought was, "For a scientist, Banner is assuming that being a Hulk will affect Jen the same way it affected him. That doesn't seem very sciency."

Instead of stating that, and having the two of them explore her abilities together, the ep went through a sequence of experiments and some dialogue where Jen made fun of Bruce, ridiculed his concerns and ultimately stated that the reason she could better control being a Hulk was because she had to learn to control her anger as a woman just living her daily life. I don't recall if she actually said it was due to challenges posed by men, but that implication seemed clear.

That conclusion was reinforced by the cliche bar scene. As soon as we first saw the bar in the distance, with its neon signs, I said here comes the "asshole men treat Jen poorly and she Hulks out" scene. And that's what happened. The show could have chosen any number of ways to demonstrate the potential impact of Jen's Hulk abilities. It chose to do so by showing men being dicks.

It was only one episode, but this theme was heavy handed to me. If we now go on to see male lawyers "mansplaining" Jen in the courtroom, I'm out.

[MrWhyt]

24 minutes ago, Ottis said:

It chose to do so by showing men being dicks.

But men are dicks, especially when it comes to women.

Quote

If we now go on to see male lawyers "mansplaining" Jen in the courtroom, I'm out.

yes cause no woman has ever been talked down to by an unqualified man.

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Ottis said:

That conclusion was reinforced by the cliche bar scene. As soon as we first saw the bar in the distance, with its neon signs, I said here comes the "asshole men treat Jen poorly and she Hulks out" scene. And that's what happened. The show could have chosen any number of ways to demonstrate the potential impact of Jen's Hulk abilities. It chose to do so by showing men being dicks.

To me calling them dicks is downplaying what happened in that scene. They were going to assault her. Which happens all the time to women. It is something every woman has to be aware of and concerned about constantly. It is a fact of life. Just like men assume women don’t understand what they are talking about all the time. Another fact of life for women. Showing a woman dealing with those things isn’t man bashing. It is accurately representing what women experience.