S02.E09: Sparring Partners

[chaifan]

15 hours ago, FGomez said:

Caution. In this episode it seems that people say a lot of things, but they don't really say anything. We don't have Krebs stating that he is GG, or a flashback of GG taking off the mask. We don't have Kreps stating that Cinda is the mastermind. We don't have Poppy stating that she is afraid of Cinda, well we have a non-conclusive "yes" but it can be yes to that she is so afraid of somebody...

It is possible that all this is just as it seems, but it can end up being completely different.

I agree.  I think there's a lot of misdirect going on in this episode.  For example, I think that the shot we had towards the end with Kreps in the bar and turning and looking at Cinda...  I wouldn't be surprised if they do the same shot next week and pan a little farther back and there's Poppy standing a few feet back.  Is "the smartest woman in the world" Cinda, or is it Poppy?  Or someone else all together?

I did love the reveal that Rose was impersonating Lenora.  I only feel about 1/2 off on my speculation that Lenora and Rose were the same person.  They were, sort of...   But I truly don't understand why there was a fake painting. 

A few things that didn't make sense...  Charles' father's watch - ok, that was good sleuthing to open it up.  But why would anyone put an address in the inside of a watch?  I could understand a love inscription, to keep it secret (instead of just inscribing the back of the watch like normal).  But who would inscribe an address?  And what are the chances the same person would live there after all this time?  And Kreps' moonlighting in Oklahoma.  Yeah, I'll buy the Coney Island job, and taking cases with other departments.  But he's getting paid enough by an OK department to pay for flights, hotels, etc.?  I'm not buying that.  If it was murder in New Jersey, yeah, ok.  But not OK. 

I can't wait for next week, but at the same time, I don't want it to be over...

[Cthulhudrew]

32 minutes ago, chaifan said:

But I truly don't understand why there was a fake painting. 

I can buy the explanation that you wouldn't want to hang a multimillion dollar painting in your apartment where it could get stolen or damaged fairly easily.

(Putting the original under your birdcage is a different story, though).

[FGomez]

16 hours ago, Lugal said:

Poppy being Becky could be a bunch of scenarios: 

This makes me wonder, which is the first episode when Poppy appeared?

[Snapdragon]

11 hours ago, chaifan said:

I agree.  I think there's a lot of misdirect going on in this episode.  For example, I think that the shot we had towards the end with Kreps in the bar and turning and looking at Cinda...  I wouldn't be surprised if they do the same shot next week and pan a little farther back and there's Poppy standing a few feet back.  Is "the smartest woman in the world" Cinda, or is it Poppy?  Or someone else all together?

I did love the reveal that Rose was impersonating Lenora.  I only feel about 1/2 off on my speculation that Lenora and Rose were the same person.  They were, sort of...   But I truly don't understand why there was a fake painting. 

A few things that didn't make sense...  Charles' father's watch - ok, that was good sleuthing to open it up.  But why would anyone put an address in the inside of a watch?  I could understand a love inscription, to keep it secret (instead of just inscribing the back of the watch like normal).  But who would inscribe an address?  And what are the chances the same person would live there after all this time?  And Kreps' moonlighting in Oklahoma.  Yeah, I'll buy the Coney Island job, and taking cases with other departments.  But he's getting paid enough by an OK department to pay for flights, hotels, etc.?  I'm not buying that.  If it was murder in New Jersey, yeah, ok.  But not OK. 

I can't wait for next week, but at the same time, I don't want it to be over...

The address thing bothered me too.  It would make sense if Rose had given/sent the watch to Charles's dad so that he would know where to find her but Rose said that the two never saw each other again, so why was the address in the watch?  Maybe she was hoping he'd open it up and see that address but he never did?  

Not sure what to think about the Cinda/Poppy stuff.  I imagine that Poppy/Becky was either trying to get away from something and faked her disappearance and Cinda figured it out or Cinda convinced Poppy/Becky that faking her disappearance would be a good idea and used that situation to make a successful podcast.  Not sure how any of that would connect to Bunny's murder though, so maybe Cinda and Kreps aren't involved in Bunny's actual murder but just in the podcast angle of it?  Like Kreps is manipulating the evidence to point towards Charles/Oliver/Mabel because it makes a better story for Cinda's podcast, plus the added bonus of getting her competition out of the way?

[Lugal]

1 hour ago, FGomez said:

This makes me wonder, which is the first episode when Poppy appeared?

From what I've been able to find, Poppy first appeared in "The Sting" Ep 4 of season 1

[MollyB]

15 hours ago, kay1864 said:

Dang I’m confused. Was Kreps burying (and then discovering?) a hair sample in the dirt? That he took from the evidence locker from… a woman who wasn’t dead?

This bothered me, too.  I think he was switching hair samples that had already been collected and burying the panties .  Two separate acts.

[MollyB]

12 hours ago, Arynm said:

Very balls forward. See! It works for anything.

Is there nothing "very balls forward" can't do?

Edited August 17, 2022 by MollyB

[MollyB]

17 hours ago, chaifan said:

But who would inscribe an address? 

Rose was hiding from her abusive husband.  She couldn't give the address to Savage Sr. so she inscribed it.  All he would need was an anonymous note/phone call to 'check his watch'.  Since he died heartbroken he was not as good a sleuth as his son and never saw his true love again.  (I'm assuming she planned to move before Savage Sr. got hauled off to jail and the watch was in her possession long enough to have it inscribed.)

Edited August 17, 2022 by MollyB

[Lugal]

12 hours ago, chaifan said:

A few things that didn't make sense...  Charles' father's watch - ok, that was good sleuthing to open it up.  But why would anyone put an address in the inside of a watch?  I could understand a love inscription, to keep it secret (instead of just inscribing the back of the watch like normal).  But who would inscribe an address?  And what are the chances the same person would live there after all this time?  And Kreps' moonlighting in Oklahoma.  Yeah, I'll buy the Coney Island job, and taking cases with other departments.  But he's getting paid enough by an OK department to pay for flights, hotels, etc.?  I'm not buying that.  If it was murder in New Jersey, yeah, ok.  But not OK.

At first I thought the address was the watch company, but the fact that it was Rose Cooper's address, it doesn't quite make sense.  As for Kreps moonlighting in Okalhoma, that tracks.  He sells himself as a big city homicide detective to small town police departments who are probably dealing with their first murder in years, if not decades.  If they hire him for that, they'll pay for his flights and accommodation.

[shapeshifter]

I'm rewatching the episode now.

When Alice shows up at Mabel's with her "gift," she says she has to use the bathroom, which is the oldest trick in the book to look for drugs in the medicine cabinet (or do some other non-bathroom related business).
And then when Alice exits the bathroom, she has a coat draped over her hand, like she's hiding something.

Also, when Alice shows up at Mabel's, Mabel says:

• "What are you doing here?"

—which feels too similar to what Bunny said when she apparently admitted her killer into her apartment for it to not be a call back for us, implying that Alice might be the killer? 

And Alice blames any blood or poorly cut puzzle pieces on the blackout. But maybe the puzzle was hastily cut as an excuse to get into Mabel's bathroom or passageway to steal/retrieve/leave something?

But at this point I think Cinda Canning really is "The Criminal Mastermind," and Alice could probably just be another of her flunkies. Howard's cute date could be too.

But Alice might have accidentally killed Bunny and then covered it up with dragging and extra stabbing .
Making art of the murder scene could be part of the coverup too.
Or not.
 

 

Towards the end of the episode, Rose tells Charles that someone fitting the description of Cinda (or Poppy, who may or may not just be doing Cinda's bidding) wanted the painting.
But which painting, and why? For money? Or a clue to another murder for a podcast?
Maybe for a podcast about the not-murder/disappearance of Rose (which would fit with Cinda's podcast genre of missing persons presumed dead).
 

 

On 8/16/2022 at 3:36 AM, phalange said:

Mabel confronting Kreps in the boxing ring was great. He kept bragging about how smart he was, but ended up spilling a whole bunch of clues to Mabel.

I think Kreps deliberately dropped the info about the other podcast because he really doesn't want to see Mable go to prison for something she didn't do. He wanted to give her a "fighting chance."

 

 

51 minutes ago, MollyB said:

Leonora was hiding from her abusive husband.  She couldn't give the address to Savage Sr. so she inscribed it.  All he would need was an anonymous note/phone call to 'check his watch'.  Since he died heartbroken he was not as good a sleuth as his son and never saw his true love again.  (I'm assuming she planned to move before Savage Sr. got hauled off to jail and the watch was in her possession long enough to have it inscribed.)

"Leonora" should be "Rose."
I know. It's hard to keep up.

Edited August 17, 2022 by shapeshifter

[cardigirl]

1 hour ago, MollyB said:

Leonora was hiding from her abusive husband.  She couldn't give the address to Savage Sr. so she inscribed it.  All he would need was an anonymous note/phone call to 'check his watch'.  Since he died heartbroken he was not as good a sleuth as his son and never saw his true love again.  (I'm assuming she planned to move before Savage Sr. got hauled off to jail and the watch was in her possession long enough to have it inscribed.)

At the point we see Charles Sr. hauled away by the police, he had the watch. He checked it before he left Charles Jr. to go to his "audition." I don't know if he still had it on him when he was arrested, but given that Charles Jr. has it now, and he said it was his father's watch, he must have gotten it sometime after the arrest. So when was the address engraved on the watch back cover?

Edited August 17, 2022 by cardigirl

[ajsnaves]

I am going to have to rewatch.  When did Kreps remove the hair from evidence?  Was it before or after he met Cinda (Or whomever he met.)?  Also, this just occurred to me, but that is a horribly managed evidence room.  There did not appear to be any way to maintain a chain of custody if out of town detectives could just walk in an remove stuff.

[FGomez]

4 hours ago, Lugal said:

From what I've been able to find, Poppy first appeared in "The Sting" Ep 4 of season 1

I have rewatched that episode. Three things called my attention

(1) Poppy (Becky) was right there at the office, while the podcast about her own disappearance was at its peak. And she didn't look afraid of Cinda at all.

(2) Cinda's podcast was being bought by 30 million. In fact, Poppy points out: "What they're buying is her". I mean, how can the "mastermind" be bought? Isn't it more logical that the mastermind buys Cinda Cunning?

(3) At the end of the episode, Cinda says " ... our next investigation. Stay tuned for 'Only MurderERS in the building' coming this fall." (so there was maybe a mistake in S1E10, because it was not Poppy's idea, it was said by Cinda at episode 4?). Anyway, it was season 2 already planned in S1E4 by Cinda?!?!?!?!?!?!?  Right after her being "bought"?

Edited August 17, 2022 by FGomez

[paigow]

The real Leonora is in a nursing home.

Rose impersonated Leonora.

Rose gave the watch to Charles' father

Edited August 17, 2022 by paigow

[MollyB]

3 hours ago, cardigirl said:

So when was the address engraved on the watch back cover?

17 minutes ago, paigow said:

Rose gave the watch to Charles.

I believe Rose was planning to leave her husband and fake her death. She found a remote place to live and also bought the watch  and had it engraved.  I like the idea that she gave him the watch.  Still can't figure how she knew he would find the address, though.

[Lugal]

53 minutes ago, FGomez said:

(1) Poppy (Becky) was right there at the office, while the podcast about her own disappearance was at its peak. And she didn't look afraid of Cinda at all.

(2) Cinda's podcast was being bought by 30 million. In fact, Poppy points out: "What they're buying is her". I mean, how can the "mastermind" be bought? Isn't it more logical that the mastermind buys Cinda Cunning?

(3) At the end of the episode, Cinda says " ... our next investigation. Stay tuned for 'Only MurderERS in the building' coming this fall." (so there was maybe a mistake in S1E10, because it was not Poppy's idea, it was said by Cinda at episode 4?). Anyway, it was season 2 already planned in S1E4 by Cinda?!?!?!?!?!?!?  Right after her being "bought"?

It's been a while since I watched this episode, but...

(1) If Poppy/Becky was in Cinda's good graces or thought she was being protected at the time she may not have feared Cinda, what they call the honeymoon phase of the abuse cycle.  And it was only an episode or so ago that Poppy woke up from her Stockholm Syndrome, realizing how awful Cinda really is.

(2) "What they're buying is her" is a figure of speech.  Basically Cinda is the main selling point of the podcast.

(3) It was a flash forward at the end of the episode so it took place a few months later, presumably after their arrest.  I'm guessing once the Only Murders in the Building podcast became successful, Cinda decided to destroy them.  I always thought that Poppy came up with the title and Cinda stole it.

[cardigirl]

59 minutes ago, paigow said:

Rose gave the watch to Charles' father

Do we know that for sure? I mean, I don't remember Rose (Shirley) commenting that she did give it to him. 

[cardigirl]

1 hour ago, FGomez said:

I have rewatched that episode. Three things called my attention

(1) Poppy (Becky) was right there at the office, while the podcast about her own disappearance was at its peak. And she didn't look afraid of Cinda at all.

(2) Cinda's podcast was being bought by 30 million. In fact, Poppy points out: "What they're buying is her". I mean, how can the "mastermind" be bought? Isn't it more logical that the mastermind buys Cinda Cunning?

(3) At the end of the episode, Cinda says " ... our next investigation. Stay tuned for 'Only MurderERS in the building' coming this fall." (so there was maybe a mistake in S1E10, because it was not Poppy's idea, it was said by Cinda at episode 4?). Anyway, it was season 2 already planned in S1E4 by Cinda?!?!?!?!?!?!?  Right after her being "bought"?

Cinda saying it in S1E4 was during a flash-forward. I remember being upset that she was horning in on Charles, Mabel, and Oliver's podcast. But Poppy coined the term at the very end of S1E10. Cinda tells her that's very good. And then steals it. She threatens Poppy by saying "That's mine. From this moment on. If you say otherwise, you'll be stocking water in the fridge at PBS til you're 40." They hadn't started the podcast yet. 

Quote

Curiously, Cinda Canning was at the scene of the crime on the night that Bunny Folger was murdered in the Only Murders in the Building season 1 finale. As the police were escorting Mora, Savage, and Putnam from the building, Canning was already recording the first episode of a new podcast with the help of her assistant, Poppy White. Indeed, it was Poppy who suggested the name "Only Murderers in the Building," which Canning was quick to claim ownership of, threatening to fire Poppy if she dared deny her credit for the name.  - from ScreenRant

[FGomez]

16 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

was during a flash-forward.

Ah, you're right, I had missed the "A few months from now" inscription.

Anyway, it seems this episode was written with season 2 in mind. And it happened that Cinda's podcast was being bought. And if you buy the podcast, you will  be able to take decisions on the direction it takes ... Curious.

(yes, I am in desperate mode trying to build a case for Nina Lin, instead of Cinda, being the mastermind)

[Ilovepie]

On 8/16/2022 at 9:24 AM, Kiddvideo said:

Next week’s episode is 37 minutes long. They’ve got a lot to wrap up in 37 minutes.

They sure do! A lot of characters to sort out. Also, what was the point of Amy Schumer? I know a lot of people didn't like her, but now I am wondering what was the point of her even being on this show? Obviously she isn't the murderer, but it would be nice to circle back to her somehow.

[GaT]

24 minutes ago, Ilovepie said:

Also, what was the point of Amy Schumer? 

This bothers me too, did they just randomly throw her in there for no reason? They could have used that time to further the actual plot, not waste time on a celebrity for no reason.

[Lugal]

35 minutes ago, Ilovepie said:

Also, what was the point of Amy Schumer? I know a lot of people didn't like her, but now I am wondering what was the point of her even being on this show? Obviously she isn't the murderer, but it would be nice to circle back to her somehow.

She was the celebrity cameo, like Sting was last season, only not as likable and not used as well.  At least Sting was briefly a suspect, Amy was just there.

[shapeshifter]

30 minutes ago, Lugal said:

She was the celebrity cameo, like Sting was last season, only not as likable and not used as well.  At least Sting was briefly a suspect, Amy was just there.

I'm glad Amy had a lesser role. 
I wonder who the next celebrity cameo will be?

[paigow]

2 hours ago, cardigirl said:

Do we know that for sure? I mean, I don't remember Rose (Shirley) commenting that she did give it to him. 

She was wondering why it took so long for Charles to find her address. Therefore, she gave the watch to his father.

[lawrbk]

On 8/16/2022 at 1:36 AM, thuganomics85 said:

At first I thought nothing would ever top the Captain America vs. Hydra elevator brawl in The Winter Solider.  I thought Yelena vs. Kate Bishop on Hawkeye came close.  But now we know what is truly the best elevator fight scene of all time: Oliver Putnam vs. Teddy Dimas!  Complete with Howard as an unwilling spectator!  I'm also sure Martin Short and Nathan Lane did their own stunts!  Epic!!!

Not surprised that Krieps seems to only be a cog in the wheel, but I didn't predict that Cinda could actually be the criminal mastermind!  Sounds like it might be connected to her and Krieps faking the discovery in the first case she covered that made her famous.  Even Becky, the supposed victim in the story, is none other than Poppy.  I'm still wondering if Cinda is the actual killer or if there is going to be another swerve here (how would Bunny be connected to any of this?), but I can't wait to see how this all plays out in the finale.

So, Teddy is Will's biological father after-all, but Oliver is going to pretend that the test was positive and Teddy is willing to go along with it.  I can see that.  For all of his flaws, I do think Teddy is sincere about thinking that he and Oliver are "even" now and truly wants Oliver to continue to have a great relationship with his son.  Credit to Lane to giving the character dimensions when he easily could have been a one-note antagonist.

Alice returns and comes baring puzzles and apologies to Mabel, who is wisely still keeping her distance.  I don't trust Alice still and wouldn't be surprised if another big revelation is in store for her here.

Shirley MacLaine is back and she was actually Rose Cooper this entire time!  Also sounds like Charles' father wasn't as bad as he initially thought.  MacLaine and Steve Martin did great work in those scenes.

Can't wait till next week!

Cap vs hydra is my fave MCU scene! But, yes, this one may be just as good. 😆 Loved seeing short and lane go at it. Reminded me of Firth and Grant fighting in Bridget Jones too. You think they’ll settle when Howard boards but…nope! 

[Haleth]

I couldn't see well enough on my tv, what was the piece of evidence Kreps buried wrt the Becky investigation?  Was it just coincidence Alice's puzzle had a clue that pointed Mabel to Cinda's OK podcast or does Alice still have a part to play?  We still have no idea why Bunny was killed or what the painting had to do with it.  And "14?"

Do we know it was Kreps that texted the trio to get out of the bldg?  I don't remember that reveal.  I also want to know why Charles' dad went to prison.  It seems that it has something to do with Rose's disappearance.  A mirror to Becky's disappearance?

It still seems a jump from Cinda faking a murder to actually committing one for fame, but we'll see where this goes.  (Hopefully no one was convicted of Becky's murder.  Hopefully Charles' dad wasn't convicted of Rose's murder too.)

Poor Oliver.  What a gut punch to find out he isn't Will's father.  But all the scenes with Martin Short and Nathan Lane were gold.

15 hours ago, FGomez said:

Cinda Cunning?

Was that intentional?  

[Milburn Stone]

Selena looked oddly better in this second-to-last episode, in my entirely subjective opinion.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

I couldn't see well enough on my tv, what was the piece of evidence Kreps buried wrt the Becky investigation?  Was it just coincidence Alice's puzzle had a clue that pointed Mabel to Cinda's OK podcast or does Alice still have a part to play?  We still have no idea why Bunny was killed or what the painting had to do with it.  And "14?"

Do we know it was Kreps that texted the trio to get out of the bldg?  I don't remember that reveal.  I also want to know why Charles' dad went to prison.  It seems that it has something to do with Rose's disappearance.  A mirror to Becky's disappearance?

It still seems a jump from Cinda faking a murder to actually committing one for fame, but we'll see where this goes.  (Hopefully no one was convicted of Becky's murder.  Hopefully Charles' dad wasn't convicted of Rose's murder too.)

Poor Oliver.  What a gut punch to find out he isn't Will's father.  But all the scenes with Martin Short and Nathan Lane were gold.

17 hours ago, FGomez said:

Cinda Cunning?

Was that intentional?  

As we used to say, "I want to marry this post," and I haven't even been on a date since my divorce 30 years ago, LOL.
You have concisely listed some of (all?) the key, outstanding questions amidst many more outstanding questions, including:

• "Was it just coincidence Alice's puzzle had a clue that pointed Mabel to Cinda's OK podcast or does Alice still have a part to play?"
• "Do we know it was Kreps that texted the trio to get out of the bldg?  I don't remember that reveal."
• "...why Charles' dad went to prison.  It seems that it has something to do with Rose's disappearance.  A mirror to Becky's disappearance?"

Anyway, @Haleth, it was a hair Kreps got from the evidence locker and planted in the ground, which I could see thanks to the 55" TV my daughter made my son-in-law give to me, but which is not as sharp of an image as their newer, more expensive, 43" TV. 
Anyone else see it differently? Or something additionally?

Edited August 18, 2022 by shapeshifter

[FGomez]

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

16 hours ago, FGomez said:

Cinda Cunning?

Was that intentional?  

There are more vowel sounds in English than in Spanish. Unless I concentrate on pronunciation, Cunning and Canning sound the same to me. So for me the pun is too obvious lol

[MollyB]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Anyone else see it differently? Or something additionally?

I don't think he was burying a hair.  That would be a very long shot for it to be discovered without a body (or body parts) attached to it.  I stand by him planting the panties that the dog finds and brings to Cinda.  

I think he is switching out comparison hair that would be used for identification if a body is found.  He probably didn't know that Becky was still alive and thought he would help keep Cinda's podcast going by never finding the body.

[Jennabelle88]

On 8/16/2022 at 12:59 AM, Quilt Fairy said:

Oliver said he talked to Roberta, his ex-wife.

Did anyone else notice that Bunny was walking a chicken in the opening credits?

I did! I never pay much attention to opening credits after seeing them for the first time, so I never noticed there were "nuggets" hidden there until another posted pointed it out. Now I make sure to watch out for them!

And I'm still confused on what the "14" of "14 Savage" means. I'm like most of the rest - the Poppy/Becky reveal is just confusing. 

[shapeshifter]

So now Charles knows he didn't kiss his half sister, right?
——because Rose was his father's lover, not Bunny's mother Leonora.
At least that's my interpretation of this exchange between Charles and not-Leonora in 2.2 "Framed":

• [CHARLES] Mrs. Folger! Before you go...
• [ELDERLY BUT NOT BLIND OR SENILE ROSE PRETENDING TO BE LEONORA] Oh God, not now. I'm not good at this hour.
• [CHARLES] I think my father is in that painting.
• [ROSE / LEONORA] Well, of course, he is.
• You knew?
• [ROSE / LEONORA] Well, I-I'm not blind. Well...
  I am blind, but I'm not that blind.
  I was having an affair with your father for years.
• [CHARLES] I thought Rose Cooper was.
• [ROSE / LEONORA] She was, too.
• [CHARLES] You're telling me my father was... working both sides of the street?
• [ROSE / LEONORA] So what is so hard to follow here?
  I don't... I don't do well at this hour. I just...

[Cranberry]

5 hours ago, MollyB said:

I don't think he was burying a hair.  That would be a very long shot for it to be discovered without a body (or body parts) attached to it.  I stand by him planting the panties that the dog finds and brings to Cinda.  

Yep. That's why they deliberately showed the dog digging up the panties in the "previously on" at the start of the episode.

Edit: Actually, aha -- he stole the hair, put it on the panties, and buried the panties. In this scene where he buries the evidence, you can see the purple underwear in his hand and you can see him pulling the hair out of the little plastic evidence bag.

[Snapdragon]

10 hours ago, Haleth said:

It still seems a jump from Cinda faking a murder to actually committing one for fame, but we'll see where this goes.  (Hopefully no one was convicted of Becky's murder.  Hopefully Charles' dad wasn't convicted of Rose's murder too.)

I don't think Charles's dad went to prison, he was only arrested.  I'm assuming that he got into a fight with Rose's husband and was arrested but not charged.  If Charles's dad had gone to jail for anything connected to Rose, then I think Charles would know way more about her and the fact that he was having an affair would have come to light way earlier in Charles's life.  

[ajsnaves]

Quote

  We still have no idea why Bunny was killed or what the painting had to do with it.  And "14?"

Did we ever get confirmation that the “14” was not the 14th floor, where Charles Hayden Savage lives?

[Faceplant]

I'm amused how much both Mabel and Charles enjoyed the ASL sign for glitter. I'm not sure if that is even the correct sign, but it really is fun. 

[jsm1125]

I just realized we haven’t seen Uma since maybe episode 2.

Why doesn’t Oliver just ask Will where he can give Bunny’s bird? Isn’t Will a vet who might have patients who want a bird?

[Aryanna]

I'm just glad the Oliver and Teddy elevator fight didn't end up like the elevator fight in Drive. Can you imagine that? A lighthearted, funny who-done-it turning into an ultra violent, bloody action show from there on out. My mind goes to some wierd places. 

I think I may need cliffs notes when this is done.

[jabRI]

I'm a little suspicious of Alice and the Oklahoma chicken clue.  But then,  I didn't guess Jan last season.

[LadyintheLoop]

Quote

I'm a little suspicious of Alice and the Oklahoma chicken clue.  But then,  I didn't guess Jan last season.

Me too, but could it just be a tribute to the podcast that brought Mabel two true friends?

[shapeshifter]

13 minutes ago, LadyintheLoop said:

Me too, but could it just be a tribute to the podcast that brought Mabel two true friends?

I didn't think Alice listened to Cinda's podcasts as far as Mabel knows (Oklahoma chicken or otherwise)? Or did I miss that? 

[LadyintheLoop]

Quote

I didn't think Alice listened to Cinda's podcasts as far as Mabel knows (Oklahoma chicken or otherwise)? Or did I miss that? 

True, but she probably knows how she met Charles and Oliver, and how much they mean to her. Those friendships are a big part of Mabel's identity.

[paigow]

8 hours ago, Aryanna said:

I'm just glad the Oliver and Teddy elevator fight didn't end up like the elevator fight in Drive. 

And the final scene would lack continuity by changing which side Oliver got stabbed by Teddy....

[Shorty186]

I really wish they hadn't shown the previouslies. Once I saw Cinda, I knew she'd be involved in the ep somehow and when Kreps mentioned a woman, I thought of Cinda right away. Totally spoiled it for me.

[RedInk]

I figured Shirley MacLaine was Rose from the beginning, but it didn’t really matter, did it? She never showed up again, and there was no payoff to that mystery. It was only going to make sense if she had been the one calling Bunny for the painting & therefore had something to do with her death. Like maybe there are two separate crimes? But they’re not making her feel like a killer, so…who knows. 
Did Cinda stage a murder to “solve” and win a Peabody & that’s the extent of their crime? Surely there’s more?

[shapeshifter]

41 minutes ago, RedInk said:

I figured Shirley MacLaine was Rose from the beginning, but it didn’t really matter, did it? She never showed up again, and there was no payoff to that mystery. It was only going to make sense if she had been the one calling Bunny for the painting & therefore had something to do with her death. Like maybe there are two separate crimes? But they’re not making her feel like a killer, so…who knows. 

This makes me wonder if the hidden painting is more valuable than the "porno" painting. 

[KerleyQ]

On 8/18/2022 at 6:29 AM, Haleth said:

Do we know it was Kreps that texted the trio to get out of the bldg?  I don't remember that reveal.

I don't think we've ever had it explicitly confirmed. Unless I'm remembering wrong, I think Mabel said something to him about it, but he didn't confirm it was him. I think it's just an assumption that it was him since he seems to be Glitter Guy, and GG is the one who went to retrieve the matchbook after they texted that number. I think it's just as likely, though, that it could have been Cinda (or Poppy, I'm not ruling her out) who texted that night, and then, when they texted that number about the evidence, sent Kreps to go retrieve it. That conversation in the boxing ring makes it pretty clear he's essentially someone's lovestruck henchman, so it would make sense that he was playing gofer for Cinda/Poppy. 

[MisterGlass]

On 8/17/2022 at 11:04 AM, shapeshifter said:

But which painting, and why? For money? Or a clue to another murder for a podcast?
Maybe for a podcast about the not-murder/disappearance of Rose (which would fit with Cinda's podcast genre of missing persons presumed dead).

My money is on this angle.  If Cinda - or her staff - started investigating the Arconia and its history after her first visit from Charles, Oliver, and Mabel, someone may have come across the mysterious disappearance of Rose Cooper.  What a perfect subject for a podcast.  Digging into her history led to Leonora Folger, who can't answer questions on her own behalf, and to Bunny, who was not interested.  Bunny was a guardian of the Arconia and that painting.  If someone wanted to get their hands on it, she might have protected it by putting a fake on display.  And if investigators started finding out about plans for the Arconia or other unsavory history, Bunny would have been the person blocking the investigation.  Bunny's death may have been an accident during an unexpected struggle, but why waste a death when you could use it as a jumping off point for a new, different podcast.

I liked the whole confrontation between Oliver and Teddy.  Howard popping on and off was icing.  That bulldog playing Winnie was incredibly well trained and stood perfectly on mark during the elevator fight.  And the conversation later was sad, weary, and touching.  It also brought us another dark tale from about Teddy's father from underneath the polished Dimas facade.

Edited August 21, 2022 by MisterGlass
grammar

[howiveaddict]

You could tell that Steve Martin was thrilled to be acting that scene with Shirley MacLaine. He seemed to be really enjoying it.  She is a legend.

The real porno painting was hidden, in a way , like how Millionaires don't wear their real jewels, but wear exact fake copies and keep the jewels in a safe  or safety deposit box

Edited August 20, 2022 by howiveaddict

[shapeshifter]

19 minutes ago, howiveaddict said:

You could tell that Steve Martin was thrilled to be acting that scene with Shirley MacLaine. He seemed to be really enjoying it.  She is a legend.

I was a little taken aback by Steve Martin breaking character as Charles to fanboy Shirley MacLaine. At least it looked like that to me in this episode. 
 

 

20 minutes ago, howiveaddict said:

The real porno painting was hidden, in a way , like how Millionaires don't wear their real jewels, but wear exact fake copies and keep the jewels in a safe  or safety deposit box

And the painting of Charles with his father was really, really hidden away.
Hiding the paintings under the bird cage was probably unintentionally symbolic of almost using it as bird cage liner to collect bird poop.
That drawer under the cage (probably for stashing bird cage liner) just happened to be the perfect size place to stash the painting(s).