S06.E12: Waterworks

[sistermagpie]

3 minutes ago, Sharper2002 said:

Seriously thought Gene would murder Marion, but he’s never committed murders himself. My only question is what made her Google “con man in Albuquerque”? 

Just now, SimplexFish said:

Why would Marion search "con man Albuquerque"?? 

Because Saul was so weirdly aware of the differences in Albuquerque when it came to bail after she'd seen him looking like he was up to something with the boys. That's why she asked if Buddy was also in trouble.

[Penman61]

Were Jeff and Gene running a deeper con than we knew?

They seemed to have their phone call from the police station scripted. Was Jeff wrecking the cab planned?

Edited August 9, 2022 by Penman61

[estellasmum]

Maybe because Gene knew the differences in the process of bailing out someone from jail between ABQ and Omaha a little too quickly for your average person?

So most people called Marion taking Gene down via the internet, but who put money on Ask Jeeves being the search engine? 

Edited August 9, 2022 by estellasmum
forgot a word

[sistermagpie]

1 minute ago, Penman61 said:

Were Jeff and Gene running a deeper con than we knew?

Gene and Jeff seemed to have their phone call from the police station scripted. Was Jeff wrecking the cab planned?

I think they just worked it out in case he ever got picked up. He wasn't supposed to crash his car. If he hadn't done that the police wouldn't have chased him.

[peeayebee]

Good to see Kim's side of the conversation with Gene. It shouldn't be a surprise that his fuming rage was one-sided. 

Love when one of Kim's coworkers was telling her it was time for Tammy's birthday celebration. "Time to sing!" And that's exactly what Kim did.

Kim's life in Florida was as dull as expected. No challenges, no stress. She has no reaction or opinion on Miracle Whip. No opinion on whether the ice cream should be vanilla or strawberry. She just stays right down the middle, afraid to make a decision?

The conversation with Cheryl was brutal. I didn't expect that to happen. For all of Kim's faults and mistakes, that was brave of her.

Gene in cancer guy's house was TENSE! He was really pushing it. Plinking the key on the piano. Not being quiet or discreet as he looking for the passwords. Sipping on the guy's booze, taking his time. It was like a game to him... until he realized the guy was gone, then he panicked. I'm so glad the guy conked out again so Gene didn't have to kill him.

Jeff. Man. Of course the cops were just eating their tacos, not even bothering about him. Loved the conversation betw him and "Dad."

And then egads with Marion! I thought, Are we really going to see Gene strangle her!?!? 

[Constantinople]

When I saw the sign 'Alaska', at first I thought "How in hell does Kim know where Jesse lives?", but just before the camera pulled back to show the 'Frontier' sign I figured the first sign was for Alaska Airlines.

Nice fakeout made all the better but not artificially extending it.

Edited August 9, 2022 by Constantinople

[Kristi800]

5 minutes ago, Sharper2002 said:

Not sure how I feel about the Kim and Jesse crossover.

Everything else in the show was perfect, but this felt forced. 

Kim's confession felt like Mike's conversation with Nacho's father. Like, so what. There's no evidence of what they did, Lalo's dead, Gus is, etc., and she still spares Jimmy/Saul/Gene. Maybe she doesn't know where exactly he is but she does know he's alive, so Cheryl's like, WTF, why bother telling me now, just to ease Kim's mind! 

[Sailorgirl26]

So this may belong in speculation without spoilers and I'm going to spoiler it just to be super safe. 

Spoiler

In one of the recent promo voice overs we hear Kim taking an oath. After tonight's episode, I'm thinking "Gene" gets caught, extradited back to ABQ, and Kim testifies against him in exchange for an immunity deal -- the final nail in the coffin of their relationship and that puts James Michael McGill in prison for the rest of his life. Where everyone said he would always end up, and where, arguably, he was always headed his entire life.  

Edited August 9, 2022 by Sailorgirl26

[peeayebee]

4 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Because Saul was so weirdly aware of the differences in Albuquerque when it came to bail after she'd seen him looking like he was up to something with the boys. That's why she asked if Buddy was also in trouble.

And didn't Gene tell her at one time that he'd never lived there? It probably struck her as strange that he would know that. I mean, let's face it. Marion had been seeing a lot of little signs that something wasn't quite true about him.

[Mean Machine]

Gene said something about bail procedures being different in Omaha than Albuquerque, and it seemed like Marion did a slight double take when he said that.  Pretty sure that's what aroused her suspicion and made her Ask Jeeves.

ETA: Damn, this thread is hot, I see multiple others have already answered that question.

Edited August 9, 2022 by Mean Machine

[Constantinople]

7 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Because Saul was so weirdly aware of the differences in Albuquerque when it came to bail after she'd seen him looking like he was up to something with the boys. That's why she asked if Buddy was also in trouble.

Wasn't Marion watching the Better Call Saul commercials on her laptop before Gene walked in? That's why she didn't hear the doorbell. She still had her headphones on.

[Colorado David]

Some nice writing and cinematography there. I don't mind a brunette Kim, but that cut needs to change.

UGH miracle whip is the worst, be it on tuna or potato salad. always say NO to MW (I was forced to eat it growing up as a sub for real mayo.) 

So Kim grew a conscience...the damage is already done, Howard's wife was correct.

Time for Jimmy's come-uppance?? We'll see.

[sistermagpie]

4 minutes ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

Spoiler

In one of the recent promo voice overs we hear Kim taking an oath. After tonight's episode, I'm thinking "Gene" gets caught, extradited back to ABQ, and Kim testifies against him -- the final nail in the coffin that puts James Michael McGill in prison for the rest of his life. Where everyone said he would always end up, and where, arguably, he was always headed his entire life. 

She's taking an oath as an attorney in the promo, not as a witness.

Quote

Wasn't Marion watching the Better Call Saul commercials on her laptop before Gene walked in? That's why she didn't hear the doorbell. She still had her headphones on.

Yes, his line about the law was what flipped the switch in her in that conversation and she started putting together her other suspicions, which led to con man.

Edited August 9, 2022 by sistermagpie

[Sailorgirl26]

3 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

She's taking an oath as an attorney in the promo, not as a witness.

Ah thanks. So would it make sense if she 

Spoiler

swears in to represent Cheryl against Jimmy?  I just have this feeling she's going to be the one to be essentially the star witness/vehicle in what ultimately seals the deal in the prosecution against Jimmy -- the ultimate betrayal that does him in. 

Edited August 9, 2022 by Sailorgirl26

[Chaos Theory]

"There never was a Nippy was there?"   and "I trusted you"   Marion figuring out that Gene wasn't who he said he was and going to her cat video laptop and finding Saul's old videos was a great scene.

Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul always was six degrees of Kevin Bacon or Six degrees of Heisenberg so I can buy Kim fresh from signing her divorce papers from the now fully formed Saul Goodman and meeting Jessie Pinkman.

And yeah Kim's life in Florida was as dull as I expected and probably a fate worse then jail being around a bunch Karens and such.   I can see having Jimmy getting in touch with her after 6 years being what finally wakes her up and get her to finally confess to her part in Howard's death to both the law and Cheryl.   I am not sure I feel sorry for her but it was brutal to watch for her and Cheryl because she does feel remorse.  

Jeff is just not good under pressure.  

Edited August 9, 2022 by Chaos Theory

[sistermagpie]

1 minute ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

Ah thanks. So would it make sense if she 

  Hide contents

swears in to represent Cheryl against Jimmy? 

I don't think so. The oath is what she would have taken when she became an attorney. I don't think attorneys take an oath when they are in court. She's no longer an attorney in New Mexico, and if she was I don't think Cheryl would hire her in a million years. 

Also, I don't think Kim would feel right putting Jimmy in jail while she's outside of it. She's just as responsible for Howard's death as he is.

[nodorothyparker]

Prison might have been preferable to Kim's painfully stultifying new life with that hair.

I think we all knew when they brought Carol Burnett in for the role of Marion that she would likely be a part of Jimmy/Saul/Gene's final denouement. It feels a little pat that that would be the search she'd immediately go to, but let's go with it. The long drawn out scene of Gene skulking around cancer guy's house stealing stuff just for the sake of stuffing it in his pockets was ugly, as it was clearly supposed to be. There was no stylistic heist with jaunty music about it. Just a monochromatic scene of a washed up criminal about to brain a guy in the back of the head with his dead dog's ashes. 

Kim running into Jesse outside Saul's office while he was waiting for Emilio was very much a final piece of the two halves of this universe colliding and it very much felt it. It also felt like it went on way too long with Jesse continuing to just talk and talk and talk while the camera swooped around for every possible angle to minimize how much Aaron Paul has aged since the original series.

[sistermagpie]

5 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul always was six degrees of Kevin Bacon or Six degrees of Heisenberg so I can buy Kim fresh from signing her divorce papers from the now fully formed Saul Goodman and meeting Jessie Pinkman.

Jeff is just not good under pressure.  

I like how you can see how much of Jimmy/Saul/Gene's life is dictated by idiots and accidents either working in his favor or against it. He slipped out of so many potential disasters in that house and the Jeff suddenly can't turn a corner on an empty street without crashing his car and it all falls apart.

[Constantinople]

20 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

Kim running into Jesse outside Saul's office while he was waiting for Emilio was very much a final piece of the two halves of this universe colliding and it very much felt it. It also felt like it went on way too long with Jesse continuing to just talk and talk and talk while the camera swooped around for every possible angle to minimize how much Aaron Paul has aged since the original series.

I think the scene ran on too long too, but at least when Jesse asked Kim's opinion about Saul, she didn't say "When the going gets tough, you don't want a criminal lawyer, all right? You want a criminal lawyer. You know what I'm saying?" That would have been too much.

Edited August 9, 2022 by Constantinople

[Sailorgirl26]

1 minute ago, sistermagpie said:

I don't think so. The oath is what she would have taken when she became an attorney. I don't think attorneys take an oath when they are in court. She's no longer an attorney in New Mexico, and if she was I don't think Cheryl would hire her in a million years. 

Also, I don't think Kim would feel right putting Jimmy in jail while she's outside of it. She's just as responsible for Howard's death as he is.

But . . . she confessed in this episode. She flat out said there would be no prosecution since there was no evidence and everyone involved was dead, except for her ex husband, she assumed. He is alive, he gets extradited, she turns against him to save herself since, compared to the BrBa crimes they want Saul for, what she did was minor in the big picture. She can restore Howard's reputation, and that was pretty much her biggest "crime." 

[peeayebee]

I don't really get why Marion asked if Buddy was in trouble, too. 

[maystone]

Kim is still my girl. She was a shell of herself in her existence in Florida - I can't call it her life. And it was the punishment she set for herself. It was joyless. It was everything that Kim was not. I noticed that she never initiated interaction; it was always reactive and frequently monosyllabic. And you know that her hook-up with The Yepper was pure self-loathing. The ponytail was gone. I sighed when I saw that.

I've seen the comments about how Kim waited until everyone associated with Howard's death was also either dead or missing. Kim didn't plan on that confession to Cheryl. That was set in motion when Jimmy called her. When he challenged her to turn herself in. And she did. I think if Jimmy hadn't called, if that particular conversation had never happened, Kim would have continued in her personal carceral state for many years. I thought what she did was brave and the right thing to do.

Her breakdown on the bus was harrowing to watch. I was starting to have an anxiety attack and had to pull myself out of it. Damn, what a scene. Kudos to Rhea and Gilligan. And yes, the hand coming into the scene to try to comfort Kim was understated perfection.

Meanwhile in Omaha, Jimmy is in self-destruct mode. Stupid and arrogant. And then he compounds the nonsense with the break-in and theft by just going full-on Saul. As if Gene didn't exist anymore. Good on Marion for pressing the button and how perfect is it that Jimmy is busted by the "I've fallen and can't get up" device touted in cheesy TV commercials. Sound familiar, Jimmy?

Just a great, great episode. Put it up for an Emmy for everyone involved.

[sistermagpie]

5 minutes ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

But . . . she confessed in this episode. She flat out said there would be no prosecution since there was no evidence and everyone involved was dead, except for her ex husband, she assumed. He is alive, he gets extradited, she turns against him to save herself since, compared to the BrBa crimes they want Saul for, what she did was minor in the big picture. She can restore Howard's reputation, and that was pretty much her biggest "crime." 

But why would prosecuting Saul for his BB crimes do anything for Howard's reputation and why would she want to save herself from all of that if it did? She's already probably saved, since as she said, there's no physical evidence so the DA might not want to prosecute it. Going after Jimmy makes it seem like she's punishing Jimmy for crimes she did. And anyway, she wouldn't be prosecuting Jimmy, since she's not in the DA's office and Cheryl has nothing to do with anything in BB.

4 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

I don't really get why Marion asked if Buddy was in trouble, too. 

Because she'd seen Gene pulling both Jeff and Buddy into the shed to talk, so she figured out he was pulling something with both of them.

Edited August 9, 2022 by sistermagpie

[Crashcourse]

I think Kim's punishment should be having yep yep sex for the rest of her life.

[peeayebee]

2 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Because she'd seen Gene pulling both Jeff and Buddy into the shed to talk, so she figured out he was pulling something with both of them.

Yes, I get that, but it seemed like an unnecessary line of dialogue. I may stay up tonight and rewatch the ep.

BTW, it looked like the jigsaw puzzle she was working on was all white. That seems to show more of the blandness of her existence.

Edited August 9, 2022 by peeayebee

[Kristi800]

5 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I like how you can see how much of Jimmy/Saul/Gene's life is dictated by idiots and accidents either working in his favor or against it. He slipped out of so many potential disasters in that house and the Jeff suddenly can't turn a corner on an empty street without crashing his car and it all falls apart.

He knew he shouldn't have been there and was a fool to put himself into that position - Jeff & Buddy were right not to do it.  

[Sharper2002]

1 minute ago, Crashcourse said:

I think Kim's punishment should be having yep yep sex for the rest of her life.

I kept having flashbacks of that commercial with Kevin Wachtell’s dad and couldn’t wait for the scene to be over. 

[Sailorgirl26]

4 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Going after Jimmy makes it seem like she's punishing Jimmy for crimes she did.

But other than destroying Howard's reputation, the only crimes she committed were, arguably, petty crimes as Gizele -- Ken Wins, for example. And for prosecutors looking to make any score in the massive criminality of Heisenberg world, Gus, the Salamancas, breaking open what happened to the entire friggin' cartel world for heaven's sake -- given that everyone else is dead or disappeared to Alaska, letting her off the hook for some petty crimes in exchange for getting one of the biggest fish is a no brainer. 

Edited August 9, 2022 by Sailorgirl26

[SimplexFish]

Jimmy seemed a lot more upset, excited and much louder in last weeks phonebooth scene than how we heard him on the phone in Kim's office in this episode, didn't seem to match up to me

Also I guess the reason for the totally different Jeff persona from the original was how they decided for this to end the show. The original Jeff was not such a stooge and goofball as this new "Jeffy" and that demeaner would not of worked in this situation.

Edited August 9, 2022 by SimplexFish

[zscore]

Never though I would see a Better Call Saul/The Amazing Race crossover. Anyone knows which episode they are watching?

[sistermagpie]

Just now, peeayebee said:

Yes, I get that, but it seemed like an unnecessary line of dialogue. I may stay up tonight and rewatch the ep.

It didn't seem unnecessary to me. It was a way of her testing out her suspicions that she suddenly had there on the phone. Before that she'd been complaining to Saul what it was like dealing with this stuff with Jeff. Since Buddy wasn't in trouble, she still wasn't sure.

1 minute ago, Kristi800 said:

He knew he shouldn't have been there and was a fool to put himself into that position - Jeff & Buddy were right not to do it.  

Yes, but still, he was still getting lucky and unlucky based on stuff that was completely random. It's more surprising when him putting himself in those positions works out.

1 minute ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

But other than destroying Howard's reputation, the only crimes she committed were, arguably, petty crimes as Gizele -- Ken Wins, for example. And prosecutors looking to make any score in the Heisenberg world given that everyone else is dead or disappeared to Alaska, letting her off the hook to get the big fish is a no brainer. 

Sure, but I don't understand what the two things have to do with each other. Kim feels guilty about Howard's death. She dealt with it by confessing it to Cheryl. She also told Cheryl about Jimmy's involvement. If the DA did decide to prosecute that case, both Kim and Jimmy would be guilty. Kim might get a better deal for confessing, but that would undercut her motivation for going to Cheryl to begin with.

The Heisenberg crimes that Jimmy's involved with have nothing to do with Howard or Kim and Kim couldn't possibly have anything to do with prosecuting anybody for any of them.

[Blakeston]

That woman saying she'd call the police if she saw a teenager buying a pacifier has to make her one of the most unbearable people in the whole BB/BCS universe.

[SunnyBeBe]

30 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

When I saw the sign 'Alaska', at first I thought "How in hell does Kim know where Jesse lives?", but just before the camera pulled back to show the 'Frontier' sign I figured the first sign was for Alaska Airlines.

Nice fakeout made all the better but not artificially extending it.

Thanks for pointing that out.  I got focused on that and was wondering why she was there and when Jesse was going to pop up.  
 

I’m going to withhold judgement on the waterworks…..idk.  I’ll rewatch and mull it over.  I’m not sure what, if any, serious charges Kim and Jimmy committed.  I suppose concealment of a body…..idk.  I wouldn’t think Kim faces any real trouble for that incident.  
 

[Sailorgirl26]

9 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

It didn't seem unnecessary to me. It was a way of her testing out her suspicions that she suddenly had there on the phone. Before that she'd been complaining to Saul what it was like dealing with this stuff with Jeff. Since Buddy wasn't in trouble, she still wasn't sure.

Yes, but still, he was still getting lucky and unlucky based on stuff that was completely random. It's more surprising when him putting himself in those positions works out.

Sure, but I don't understand what the two things have to do with each other. Kim feels guilty about Howard's death. She dealt with it by confessing it to Cheryl. She also told Cheryl about Jimmy's involvement. If the DA did decide to prosecute that case, both Kim and Jimmy would be guilty. Kim might get a better deal for confessing, but that would undercut her motivation for going to Cheryl to begin with.

The Heisenberg crimes that Jimmy's involved with have nothing to do with Howard or Kim and Kim couldn't possibly have anything to do with prosecuting anybody for any of them.

Fair points. I think I'm not framing my thoughts well -- combination of a little wine and a little Xanax kicking in -- I do have a logical point, I'm just not getting there. I'll try again tomorrow because I swear it makes sense in my head. . . :-D 

[Armchair Critic]

Gene did it to himself, if he would have left that guy's house when he was going to instead of going back in and messing around, he and Jeff would have been gone before the police pulled up.

[Constantinople]

40 minutes ago, SimplexFish said:

Why would Marion search "con man Albuquerque"?? 

Upon reflection I think Marion didn't necessarily mean that she literally used "con man Albuquerque " as her search phrase, but that "con man Albuquerque" is her way of summarizing what she found. Saul may want to know how she found his ads, but what's important to Marion is to call out Gene, not detail her 'Ask Jeeves' search history.

[Armchair Critic]

I just Googled con man albuquerque and the Better Call Saul commercial came up.

[MJ Frog]

2 minutes ago, Armchair Critic said:

I just Googled con man albuquerque and the Better Call Saul commercial came up.

Hah! Talk about attention to detail.

[SimplexFish]

4 minutes ago, Armchair Critic said:

I just Googled con man albuquerque and the Better Call Saul commercial came up.

But did ya Ask Jeeves? LOL

[dwmarch]

3 minutes ago, SimplexFish said:

But did ya Ask Jeeves? LOL

It would not surprise me at all if Jeeves was on the dark web selling meth these days.

[SunnyBeBe]

Where can we discuss the aftershow?

[islandgal140]

The 737k+ in the mark's bank account was the amount Walt said he needed to leave his family on BB. 

Saul went out sad. Got taken out by some dial up internet, Ask Jeeves and a Life Alert necklace. Marion being the one to expose Gene is sort of kismet and justice for all the elderly people Jimmy screwed over.

Kim's "boyfriend" opting for miracle whip and who just says "yep!" throughout sex must be her way of punishing herself. 

[Armchair Critic]

Saul was really playing it casual when he signed the divorce papers, although we saw he had tears in his eyes before Kim came in.

[Ellaria]

Wow - that was tense! And Kim’s life is reduced to discussions about Miracle Whip. It may never amount to anything but I’m glad that Cheryl knows the truth about Howard.

Marion is not a dummy. She thought something was strange when she peered out of her window last week and saw Gene yelling at Buddy about his dog. She rightfully questioned why Jeff called Gene instead of her after getting arrested. Gene calls her with a plan and info about the differences in bail proceedings between Omaha and Albuquerque. Jeff has been in trouble before.

Something is off for her and she searches…and finds Saul. Perfectly logical? Perhaps not. Possible? Definitely. I have gone down a lot of holes in my random Internet searches. That’s likely what Marion did.

Gene - the former elder law attorney - gets taken down by a perceptive elderly woman using whatever technology is available to her. It’s perfect!

Edited August 9, 2022 by Ellaria Sand

[Armchair Critic]

7 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Gene - the former elder law attorney - gets taken down by a perceptive elder woman using whatever technology is available to her. It’s perfect!

And he showed her how to work the computer last week so he sunk himself there too.

[paigow]

58 minutes ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

compared to the BrBa crimes they want Saul for,

The Feds already seized all his assets and seem to be uninterested in finding him...

[Dev F]

1 hour ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

So Kim inadvertently and ultimately sets off the entire chain of escalatory events of Saul getting embedded into the Breaking Bad world, Gus and the superlab, the worldwide distribution of meth, and all the BrBa deaths. Wow. 

I especially appreciated the suggestion that if Kim had still been a lawyer, Jesse would've brought Badger to her instead, since he had essentially the same story about her working miracles to get Combo off that he had on Breaking Bad about Saul getting Emilio off.

3 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Gene - the former elder law attorney - gets taken down by a perceptive elder woman using whatever technology is available to her. It’s perfect!

There's also the tiny glimmer of hope in the fact that Gene, who looked totally ready to brain Cancer Man with his dead dog's ashes if he hadn't passed out again, couldn't bring himself to raise a hand to the sweet old lady who lamented, "I trusted you."

[Colorado David]

8 minutes ago, Dev F said:

There's also the tiny glimmer of hope in the fact that Gene, who looked totally ready to brain Cancer Man with his dead dog's ashes if he hadn't passed out again, couldn't bring himself to raise a hand to the sweet old lady who lamented, "I trusted you."

i know right?!? when he was gathering up the phone line cord in each hand, i was so scared he was going to choke her out.

[paigow]

5 minutes ago, Dev F said:

There's also the tiny glimmer of hope in the fact that Gene, who looked totally ready to brain Cancer Man 

Yes, Vince Gilligan was involved with X-Files  but even he would not violate canon... There is only one Smoking / Cancer Man and he does not exist in the BB / BCS universe...

[Jodithgrace]

Saul and Kim each had their own ways of turning themselves in. Kim did it directly. Saul did it by self sabotage. 

The whole point of the cabbie break ins is that the victim never knows he’s been robbed. Nothing is taken except identity stuff, and the poor schlub has no clue as to how his identity is stolen. It was practically a perfect crime.

But after the phone call with Kim, Saul is on a self destruct path. He breaks a window, makes unnecessary noise (piano) and when he should be done and out of there, and the cab is waiting outside, he goes upstairs and steals watches, not to mention was he even wearing gloves? 
 

Jeffy tries to help him by crashing his cab, to distract the police, so Saul can sneak out, but by then the “drunk guy” is awake and aware that he’s been robbed. So instead of a ticket for careless driving, Jeff gets accused of robbery. 
 

Cue Marion. I think that Saul was just sitting there in that chair in the dark waiting for it all to crash down on him. 

And then it did.  Yes he ran, but that’s just the instincts of a rat. 
 

Anyway, that’s how I saw it