S03.E08: The Instant White-Hot Wild

[Mabinogia]

11 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

I also thought his apology with Annie in the car came from out of nowhere, was unearned, and she forgave him too easily.

I thought I'd missed an episode or something because the start of this episode most things felt unearned. It was like they realized it was the last ep and knew how it was supposed to end and just fast-forwarded through all the storytelling to get to the big epic fight.

I enjoyed this season up until this ep. This one was a bit meh. While it was action packed it also feels like not much happened. I do wish that HL had, if not totally lost his power at least had them significantly diminished as I think it would be interesting to see him trying to pretend he's still the big cheese but he's really getting his child to do all the heavy lifting. Oh well, looks like we're pretty much back to where we were at the start so...on the plus side, they made it much easier to wait for the next season. If anything major had happened to change the game it would have been an excruciating wait. 

[Lunula]

No one else thought it was incredibly weird that Annie could just walk into Vought and steal a vial of perma-V so easily? Like it's just in the breakroom fridge or something? 

[Mabinogia]

6 minutes ago, Lunula said:

No one else thought it was incredibly weird that Annie could just walk into Vought and steal a vial of perma-V so easily? Like it's just in the breakroom fridge or something? 

What, you don't keep your highly sought after compound that is worth millions and could change the face of humanity in your breakroom fridge? I keep mine in an old I Can't Believe It's Not Butter container next to the milk. 

That's actually just another example of how they sped through this ep to get to the fight. Don't come up with a challenging way for SL to get the compound, just have her waltz in and grab it out of the fridge. 

Edited July 9, 2022 by Mabinogia

[iMonrey]

This show really doesn't want to take any risks, does it? The finale was a total reset. Homelander still alive, Soldier Boy still alive, Huey and Butcher, still alive, even Maeve - still alive. There are no stakes here. Does the show think if they kill off Homelander it will have to be the end of the story? 

There were also too many dangling plot lines - after last season's explosive (literally) finale they didn't end up doing much of anything with Victoria. Edgar sort of disappeared and nothing came of it. I think the biggest nothingburger was Soldier Boy himself, it doesn't feel like they really did anything with him. They took him out of his box, let him run around and blow some stuff up for awhile then just put him back in his box again. WTF.

I'm also really, really tired of the obvious parallels to our current political climate - the "God, Guns and Homelander" signs - etc. It's way too on the nose without actually saying anything about it or doing anything about it.

{sigh} It's an entertaining show but I just don't feel like they took any chances this season. Like - not any.

[Sakura12]

So Maeve's bracelets can deflect Homelanders lasers? She looked to almost be as strong as him too since she made him bleed. Also did Dominique McElligott want off the show since this looks like the end of her story. 

Was Solider Boy supposed to be shown as worse them other supes? He was about the same. None of them care about collateral damage. Which also includes Butcher unless it directly involves someone he cares about. Now they Homelander can turn Ryan into a super-powered asshole like he is 

Butcher can't complain about having supes on his team since he took enough temp v to kill himself. He knows they need more fire power and Kimiko and Anne can help. 

[supposebly]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

I'm also really, really tired of the obvious parallels to our current political climate - the "God, Guns and Homelander" signs - etc. It's way too on the nose without actually saying anything about it or doing anything about it.

{sigh} It's an entertaining show but I just don't feel like they took any chances this season. Like - not any.

Thank you for summing up my feelings more succinctly than I could. There often seem flashes of brilliance in this show but then they don't seem to go anywhere to their conclusion. Or at least in an interesting direction. Kumiko, Hughie, Butcher, Souldier Boy, Homelander, all seem to be back where they were. Except now they have to figure out how to get to Ryan. It's always so "personal"! while they keep missing the big bad, Vought itself.

I don't have a problem with the political parallels but it's really quite unsubtle and again, it's not going anywhere other to get some kind of shock value. Will we see any repercussions of Homelander blowing up someone in public? Bad or good, I don't care, just something.

[Aithne]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Does the show think if they kill off Homelander it will have to be the end of the story? 

I'm afraid that they might. It has largely become The Homelander Show, and as delightful as AS is in the role, he's wearing thin for me as the villain who is never really in danger from anyone. 

Edited July 9, 2022 by Aithne

[Affogato]

2 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

So Maeve's bracelets can deflect Homelanders lasers? She looked to almost be as strong as him too since she made him bleed. Also did Dominique McElligott want off the show since this looks like the end of her story. 

Wonder woman’s bracelets, yeah. Vought knows she is alive, so possible foreshadowing. 

[Castiels Cat]

5 hours ago, Aithne said:

What would've helped would've been a line or two about what goes into making it. I'm a biologist, not a chemist, so I don't know what the language would be. But if I were to be talking about a deadly virus, I could say something like "it's not hard to propagate from a technical perspective, you just need x cell line and cell culture equipment you'd find in any lab. The problem would be containment and making sure I don't die, so we'll need a BSL-4." or something along those lines. Doubtful that they'd be allowed to legit discuss how to make it on TV, but even a few lines establishing that it is surprisingly simple to make with a few common organic pesticides or whatever it is, and the challenge is actually (containment, not dying while you're working with it, stability, whatever) which they'd address by doing it at Vought with proper PPE etc. could've eased my mind there. 

And of course, disabling the cameras to give them more time before the guards came storming in, having Kimiko take the fight outside the lab to buy more time before he gets shot, etc. Establishing that they'd need even 20-30  min could have been more believable to the audience (regardless of whether the actual IRL procedure takes 3 minutes or 3 hours). 

I read that the writer for this episode was new, but really, the rest of the team should've tightened these things up before approval. 

I would have bought that Vought had a weaponized supply on hand and they just needed to break into the lab.

You nailed the logistics. 

He definitely had the wrong PPE and should be dead. That did not look like the proper respirator for gases at all.

42 minutes ago, Aithne said:

I'm afraid that they might. It has largely become The Homelander Show, and as delightful as AS is in the role, he's wearing thin for me as the villain who is never really in danger from anyone. 

He was in danger from Maeve and SB. If they had stayed on mission they would have succeeded.

[ZeeEnnui]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

This show really doesn't want to take any risks, does it? The finale was a total reset. Homelander still alive, Soldier Boy still alive, Huey and Butcher, still alive, even Maeve - still alive. There are no stakes here. Does the show think if they kill off Homelander it will have to be the end of the story? 

There were also too many dangling plot lines - after last season's explosive (literally) finale they didn't end up doing much of anything with Victoria. Edgar sort of disappeared and nothing came of it. I think the biggest nothingburger was Soldier Boy himself, it doesn't feel like they really did anything with him. They took him out of his box, let him run around and blow some stuff up for awhile then just put him back in his box again. WTF.

100%. I loved so much of this season, and I had to sit with this episode for a day before commenting. I agree with a lot of the other posters on the thread that this finale felt rushed, and toothless. The show goes so BIG and pushes all the buttons (Timothy, giant buttholes, freaking DILDO combat!, etc.) but when it comes to wrapping up the season it was as if Kripke and the writers room got cold feet. I don't expect them to get rid of Homelander (Antony Starr is just too good, something I never thought I would say after I saw his dead-eyed, wooden acting style on Banshee) but at least do something that does something different with him. Instead he's now the leader of fascist fanboys (Stormfront would be so proud). 

On one hand, I'm glad Maeve got her happy ending (even if it means rocking an eye patch), but on the other hand I'm bummed because I felt like her character was underused for three seasons. If they bring her back, then I'm 99% sure it's because she has a little Butcher in the oven. 

Admittedly, I'm a diehard Dean Winchester fan, and I felt like Jensen Ackles killed it with this role. He's sooo good, and it felt like we weren't done exploring his story. I wanted to see three generations of sociopathic science experiments learn to become a family all while trying to kill one another. (Homelander is totally the Jan Brady in this scenario). If they bring him back (and I think Mallory absolutely will use his tight ass for vengeance) then I hope the writers give him more to do. 

What also bugged me -- and I'm not alone on the board with this one -- is that The Boys had one FREAKING job! Kill Homelander. Now we knew that wasn't going to happen, but no one but Soldier Boy and Maeve could stick to the assignment. SB is awful but not more so than any other Vought employee (including his own "disappointing" son). And Butcher after all his b.s. saw Ryan and wussed out of his own plan that drove his allies and the plot device called Ryan away. Giant eye roll. SB from what we've seen was a DICKSMACK of the highest order but he didn't kill Ryan (can he even die?). All he would have done was gotten rid of his powers, which would have made Butcher happy. All that build up for nothing. 

I wish Homelander would have done more than snatch Ashley's wig. I'd have loved to see her join Black Noir in a body bag. Her bug-eyed overacting works my last nerve. Lady, you tore out your own hair....consider other career options. 

[DeeDee79]

I loved this smirk when Soldier Boy told Homelander how weak he was. Must have been very satisfying to hear!

[DeeDee79]

1 hour ago, ZeeEnnui said:

100%. I loved so much of this season, and I had to sit with this episode for a day before commenting. I agree with a lot of the other posters on the thread that this finale felt rushed, and toothless. The show goes so BIG and pushes all the buttons (Timothy, giant buttholes, freaking DILDO combat!, etc.) but when it comes to wrapping up the season it was as if Kripke and the writers room got cold feet. I don't expect them to get rid of Homelander (Antony Starr is just too good, something I never thought I would say after I saw his dead-eyed, wooden acting style on Banshee) but at least do something that does something different with him. Instead he's now the leader of fascist fanboys (Stormfront would be so proud). 

On one hand, I'm glad Maeve got her happy ending (even if it means rocking an eye patch), but on the other hand I'm bummed because I felt like her character was underused for three seasons. If they bring her back, then I'm 99% sure it's because she has a little Butcher in the oven. 

Admittedly, I'm a diehard Dean Winchester fan, and I felt like Jensen Ackles killed it with this role. He's sooo good, and it felt like we weren't done exploring his story. I wanted to see three generations of sociopathic science experiments learn to become a family all while trying to kill one another. (Homelander is totally the Jan Brady in this scenario). If they bring him back (and I think Mallory absolutely will use his tight ass for vengeance) then I hope the writers give him more to do. 

What also bugged me -- and I'm not alone on the board with this one -- is that The Boys had one FREAKING job! Kill Homelander. Now we knew that wasn't going to happen, but no one but Soldier Boy and Maeve could stick to the assignment. SB is awful but not more so than any other Vought employee (including his own "disappointing" son). And Butcher after all his b.s. saw Ryan and wussed out of his own plan that drove his allies and the plot device called Ryan away. Giant eye roll. SB from what we've seen was a DICKSMACK of the highest order but he didn't kill Ryan (can he even die?). All he would have done was gotten rid of his powers, which would have made Butcher happy. All that build up for nothing. 

I wish Homelander would have done more than snatch Ashley's wig. I'd have loved to see her join Black Noir in a body bag. Her bug-eyed overacting works my last nerve. Lady, you tore out your own hair....consider other career options. 

I love everything about this post.

Edited July 9, 2022 by DeeDee79

[Smad]

6 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Also did Dominique McElligott want off the show since this looks like the end of her story.

There are conflicting rumors about that. Vought HQ reported months ago she was retiring from acting to go to med school. Other sources said she was leaving due to her being unable to work with Anthony Starr. Neither the first nor second rumor was ever confirmed by anyone. Then there is video of DM at a con (I haven't watched it myself) where she mentions S4.

So basically right now, no one knows anything for sure.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Smad

[DeeDee79]

34 minutes ago, Smad said:

Other sources said she was leaving due to her being unable to work with Anthony Starr.

I did read a rumor a few weeks ago that she and Nathan Mitchell (Black Noir) both didn't get along with Antony Starr and it made sense after seeing the finale. Who knows if it's entirely true though.

[Mabinogia]

37 minutes ago, Smad said:

There are conflicting rumors about that. Vought HQ reported months ago she was retiring from acting to go to med school. Other sources said she was leaving due to her being unable to work with Anthony Starr. Neither the first nor second rumor was ever confirmed by anyone. Then there is video of DM at a con (I haven't watched it myself) where she mentions S4.

My guess would actually have been that she was tired of having her character sidelined and treated like shit. The show could have/should have done sooooo much more with Maeve. She was wasted. 

[Bobcatkitten]

I thought about it for a few days hoping I would like the finale more but alas not. There were some powerful scenes (SB and Butcher talking about his Dad) and some great action sequences. 

But I couldn't handwave some things - like how did they get into a heavily fortified Vought Tower in the first place and Frenchie being able to whip up a nerve agent in 10 minutes. 

Mostly I just hate that we had a third season with no real movement. Boys still losing to Homelander. I think they missed a golden opportunity to shake it up and have Soldier Boy take HL'ers powers. Then season 4 could have been about him trying to get his powers back. 

[ahrtee]

14 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

Mostly I just hate that we had a third season with no real movement. Boys still losing to Homelander. I think they missed a golden opportunity to shake it up and have Soldier Boy take HL'ers powers. Then season 4 could have been about him trying to get his powers back. 

Of course, if getting his powers back is as simple as taking another hit of Compound V, then what's the point?  HL has access to the motherlode of V any time he wants it.  There would have to be another twist somewhere, like if SB actually *had* blown up the building and the lab.  

[Smad]

52 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

My guess would actually have been that she was tired of having her character sidelined and treated like shit. The show could have/should have done sooooo much more with Maeve. She was wasted. 

Well reading some of Kripke's post show interviews (or snippets of them anyway), the reason they didn't kill off Maeve was because she was LGBTQ+. And the reason she is removed from the show, for now anyway, is because they want Starlight to be without her guardian angel. Thanks, I hate it all.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Smad

[Affogato]

This was a letdown, after the rest of the season.

I'm glad Maeve confronted Starlight about not searching for her. I'm glad Maeve is alive and reunited with her partner. I notice that Vought knows she is alive... I hope that Kimiko gives Starlight some kung fu lessons between seasons, she needs some training. I was touched that having cartoon hallucinations means you don't die alone. I really feel I've seen almost enough of A Train, The Deep and Ashley, but I'm glad A Train's brother got to tell him off. I'm sorry about Butcher, it is still possible V might save him.

I thought Jensen killed the moment when he abused Homelander with his own father's words, because they were clearly true and needed to be said, and I think he had a moment of personal truth as well.

Whether it was acting or editing, I thought Ryan had an evil look to him, watching Homelander work the crowd.

I'm interested in things like what would happen if Homelander was depowered. I'm afraid Kripke is interested in political satire.

[shrewd.buddha]

On 7/9/2022 at 11:28 AM, iMonrey said:

This show really doesn't want to take any risks, does it? The finale was a total reset.

When it seemed as if Maeve and Soldier Boy were dead, things seemed to have moved forward.
But afterwards, it looks as if the producers  want to have the same characters running around in the same circles. 

On 7/8/2022 at 5:41 PM, Bergamot said:

..Butcher should have been open about the situation instead of relying on his constant secretiveness, concealment, and deception, which I know is a well-established character trait of his but which is getting very tiresome.

A lot of the characters' repeated behaviors are becoming tiresome.  The Butcher/Huey and Huey/StarLight  dynamics are continually being rinsed and repeated. 
It's not as amusing anymore when Huey and Butcher manage to get so many people killed while promising them protection for their help with taking down HomeLander. 

And what could MM's ex-wife ever see in a guy like Todd?  Some of these people are almost caricatures. 

Edited July 11, 2022 by shrewd.buddha
grammar

[Mabinogia]

4 minutes ago, Affogato said:

I'm interested in things like what would happen if Homelander was depowered. I'm afraid Kripke is interested in political satire.

A depowered Homelander, even temporarily, would have been fascinating. 

Just now, shrewd.buddha said:

A lot of the characters' repeated behaviors are becoming tiresome.

This. I feel like two seasons is plenty for the same old, same old. It's enough time to truly get the feel for the characters but not enough time for them to have worn out their welcome. Three seasons is apparently when it because tedious and tiresome because my gods are they all getting boring AF. This season had some great comedic moments, some great emotional beats, some great insanity, but the storyline was dull as dishwater. 

If Soldier Boy hadn't been brought in, what really would have changed about what happened this season? What impact did he really have? IDK what, other than getting to see the beautiful Jensen Ackles, did he really add that moved the plot forward? oh, wait, the plot didn't move forward. Nevermind. 

[gonzosgirrl]

I'm honestly kind of surprised that the critics have been so positive about this season. Well, not the season - the build up was actually pretty good - but then, as has been pointed so well in this thread by others, they failed to stick the landing. Much like the incredible hype over Herogasm that turned out to be kind of a nothing-burger, all the promise of a true shake up just fizzled out in the last half hour. It's like they reviewed the PR, not the actual show.

I am over watching Homelander win with impunity and now there is literally nothing that can stop him. I guess it's probably a pretty fair reflection of the actual world right now, but it's just not entertaining to constantly watch the bad guys win. It would have been so much better to watch Homelander try to deal with defeat.

[Mabinogia]

8 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I am over watching Homelander win with impunity and now there is literally nothing that can stop him. I guess it's probably a pretty fair reflection of the actual world right now, but it's just not entertaining to constantly watch the bad guys win.

I think that because it's a pretty fair reflection of the actual world right now it goes beyond not entertaining and into depressing to watch. 

I think a lot of these kinds of shows struggle with letting the good guys win because they (the writers) don't know what to do with that. It's the old "and they lived happily ever after" idea. It seems that the majority of writers, be it television, novel, movies, don't know how to write what living happily ever after looks like. 

Now, I don't expect this type of show to have a happy ending, but I do think that The Boys need to win now and then. This season would have been the perfect time to put an end to Homelander. Have SB take him out. Things are good for a little while, but whoever takes HLs place as the leader of the Seven, becomes their own kind of terrible and now the Boys must fight this new evil.

Eventually they realize that Vaught is the true Big Bad and when the series is ready to end, they can finally take down Vaught. 

I kind of think that's what they're doing with, Victoria? is that the politician ladies name? That she's meant to be the new Big Bad in place of HL, but they couldn't bring themselves to kill off or neuter HL so we get him just walking away to go be father of the year with his demon spawn. 

Edited July 10, 2022 by Mabinogia

[overtherainbow]

There was too much tired political satire this season. It took me out of the actual plot. 

I hope there is one final season to this, that's all.

[DeeDee79]

8 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I am over watching Homelander win with impunity and now there is literally nothing that can stop him. I guess it's probably a pretty fair reflection of the actual world right now, but it's just not entertaining to constantly watch the bad guys win. It would have been so much better to watch Homelander try to deal with defeat.

I completely agree. If they had to put Soldier Boy back to sleep at the end they could at least have made it so his blast would go off close enough to Homelander so that he would have been affected along with Maeve. If Ryan is destined to be stronger than his father and was powerful enough to take out Stormfront he more than likely would have just been depowered like HL and not killed. It would have made for a pretty interesting premise for season 4. 

[Cthulhudrew]

9 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

I thought I'd missed an episode or something because the start of this episode most things felt unearned.

I had the same feeling. When Hughie told Annie that SB was having misgivings about killing his kid, I was like - "When did Hughie find that out? I thought only SB knew? Did I miss something?"

[Smad]

The obvious way to go IMO with this show to keep it both interesting and to keep the characters from being static: de-power Homelander, have him gain his powers back at the end of S4, end S4 in an epic battle in which HL finally dies. The big bad of S5 (and final Season IMO) should have been Butcher. That to me was always the obvious final big boss, if you will.

[Aithne]

15 minutes ago, Smad said:

The obvious way to go IMO with this show to keep it both interesting and to keep the characters from being static: de-power Homelander, have him gain his powers back at the end of S4, end S4 in an epic battle in which HL finally dies. The big bad of S5 (and final Season IMO) should have been Butcher. That to me was always the obvious final big boss, if you will.

Agree completely. I assume they must have something much better in mind, because this really seemed like the logical way to go. 

[Smad]

Really the only two good things in this episode...

1) Maeve getting the hell out of there

2) A-Train's brother telling him to go to hell

When will movie/tv show makers learn to have someone on staff for these superhero things that just deals with power skaling and how that would look in a fight? You have Meave and Homelander, two of the 3 strongest supes, exchanging blows and the worst it does is dent filing cabinets. Last Season when Noir fought Starlight, he literally threw her through a wall and a freaking pillar and hit her with a collapsed pillar. If Maeve misses her punch it shouldn't dent a filing cabinet, it should go through the cabinet and the wall behind it.

[gonzosgirrl]

We weren't the only ones who side-eyed Maeve tossing that nerve gas out the window. The VFX supervisor of the show: 

https://twitter.com/stephanfleet/status/1545934069866696707?t=shbcIkeBZC1wPgNM7CKERA&s=19

Edited July 10, 2022 by gonzosgirrl

[Nellise]

Maeve was so underused that her sacrifice meant nothing to me. I didn't even know what her powers were until this episode and still don't really other than strong with plot armor arm guards.

I'm in agreement with everybody else that this episode made the whole season a big meh. One of my plot pet peeves is characters letting horrible things happen because some familial connection stops them from doing the right thing. I was relieved when they didn't go there with Soldier Boy, but then they made Butcher do it and I just rolled my eyes.

[Smad]

1 hour ago, Nellise said:

One of my plot pet peeves is characters letting horrible things happen because some familial connection stops them from doing the right thing.

Supernatural in a nutshell. Wonder if Kripke ever watched that show and took inspiration from there. 

[Quark]

This finale was super disappointing considering how great the rest of the season was. Everything is pretty much back to the status quo, with the exception of Homelander now revealing himself to the world as the murderer he is. 

Frenchie and Kimiko are the best (minus her joy at killing people).

The music when Starlight was powering up didn't quite match what she actually did. I thought Soldier Boy was going to disintegrate, but instead it seemed more like a gentle push.

[Sakura12]

Having watched a few reactions to it. Starlights power up didn't visually look like it did anything, but it looked like it dazed Solider Boy enough for them to grab him and deliver the gas. So im going with it electrocuted him and he had to recover from it. 

[Ohiopirate02]

13 hours ago, shrewd.buddha said:

And what could MM's ex-wife ever see in a guy like Todd?  Some of these people are almost caricatures. 

Todd's decline into fascism is a recent development.   Before, he would have been a safe, albeit boring adult.  After years with MM, those were positive attributes to Monique who was looking for a partner who put her and Janine first.  Todd is the guy who makes it home for dinner every night, who helps Janine with her homework,  who does the yardwork and maybe just maybe also helps around the house in some capacity.   He's going to be there when Janine had a program at school.  He also does not have a William Butcher in his life who will show up unannounced taking him away from his family on a dangerous mission. 

I do think there are parallels with Todd to the last decade in American politics that cannot be discussed on here.  

[Affogato]

23 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

What, you don't keep your highly sought after compound that is worth millions and could change the face of humanity in your breakroom fridge? I keep mine in an old I Can't Believe It's Not Butter container next to the milk. 

That's actually just another example of how they sped through this ep to get to the fight. Don't come up with a challenging way for SL to get the compound, just have her waltz in and grab it out of the fridge. 

Well considering she didn’t dare to even look for Maeve because of security? Either some hacker gave her uni ersal access or not. The V temp av should be near the labs, testing rooms, dungeon.  Actually seeing the simplistic notes on a legal pad— how lucky was that?  

[Bergamot]

11 hours ago, Nellise said:

Maeve was so underused that her sacrifice meant nothing to me.

She was really underused, especially in this season. I liked her as a character, though. I liked how every time she came to the rescue of the Boys, she was kind of rolling her eyes at herself, as if she was saying to herself, "I can't believe I am helping these idiots again. This is a really bad idea!" But she did it anyway.

I liked her rough, unsentimental mentoring of Starlight, and how her bark was always worse than her bite. I liked her sarcasm, like when she told Annie, "You know what would've been better though? Actually busting me out." And I liked the way we saw her throughout the series fall into the depths of despair, but still manage to come out on the other side.

I did not like her telling Annie that Annie metaphorically "saved" her, though, because I don't think that gives enough credit to Maeve herself. And I am doubtful at what she says about Annie not needing her anymore, since Annie is just so awesome. Those statements sound more like the writers trying to puff up Annie as a character than a statement of truth. If they had followed Maeve's leadership, Homelander would have been toast. I am sorry to see her go.

[Mabinogia]

12 minutes ago, Bergamot said:

I liked how every time she came to the rescue of the Boys, she was kind of rolling her eyes at herself, as if she was saying to herself, "I can't believe I am helping these idiots again. This is a really bad idea!" But she did it anyway.

That is how you show rather than tell. Instead of having Maeve vocalize "I can't believe I'm saving you idiots since I don't believe you deserve it" she showed it with a simple eye roll. It's also one of the reasons I love her. She doesn't think she's a hero anymore, she's not sure the Boys are heroes, but she knows that they are against Homelander and are trying to stop him and that's enough for her to try to help. Of the actual "Seven" she is hands down my favorite, not that there was much competition for that honor. I do like Starlight, but she can be a bit sanctimonious for my taste. 

[moonshine71]

On 7/8/2022 at 3:09 AM, WatcherUatl10 said:

Yeah, I LIKED him on "Banshee". I saw him on some other thing with paintings or something, and he was less interesting there. I hate him on this, not because he's a bad actor, but because he's poorly cast, IMO. In order to believe what the show is serving up we the audience need to believe that our counterparts in the show's world would not see the same tightly-wound, borderline psychotic that Starr plays, and I, for one, just can't.  He's SUCH a cartoon character that it makes everyone around him seem idiotic that they don't see it.

  I WAS surprised that they killed off Noir, but then, they can always put another actor in the suit. Maeve was barely there this season. I assumed that the actress had another gig, and the ending kind of confirmed that. And Soldier Boy's on ice until they need him again in a couple of seasons. Kind of boring, to be honest.  The only real death, other than Noir, was the politician in the pool, which gave Deep something to do. And I guess Victoria (did she have the same name as the character from Young and Restless in the comics?) Newman moves into the Veep gig, which leaves her spot at Vought open?

? Victoria doesn't have a spot at Vought, she's a congresswoman. She heads a committee on superhumans.

[Pondlass1]

I don’t watch the show with anywhere near the dedication as most here, but  … although TS is doing an excellent acting job …IMO  it’s time for HL to die or lose powers.  That would leave SB as top big bad.  Life might be more fun because enjoying himself seems to be SB’s main priority. Just don’t cross him.  And a narcissistic psychotic HL stuck with less power?  well it all could be very entertaining.

And the actual The Boys seem to have lost the directive. Which is a bit annoying.

A whole year to wait. 🙄 

[Smad]

1 hour ago, Bergamot said:

She was really underused, especially in this season.

Supposedly it was COVID and travel restrictions etc. for this Season.

1 hour ago, Bergamot said:

I did not like her telling Annie that Annie metaphorically "saved" her, though, because I don't think that gives enough credit to Maeve herself. And I am doubtful at what she says about Annie not needing her anymore, since Annie is just so awesome. Those statements sound more like the writers trying to puff up Annie as a character than a statement of truth. If they had followed Maeve's leadership, Homelander would have been toast. I am sorry to see her go.

Oh God that was painful. For one, Anni is still useless in terms of superpowers. So what the hell? She didn't even fly, she hovered. Apparently even her power up can't blind people anymore, so that power up is even weaker than her normal powers. Not to mention that unlike Maeve, SL never trains her powers or fighting skills so there will never be an improvement.

And as you said, it takes credit away from Maeve herself. She got sober on her own, planted fake rumors about herself to disguise her training and was Butcher's inside woman, sending them on their path for the Season because she wanted HL dead. Annie had absolutely nothing to do with any of that. Sure the woman seemed downright suicidal but if she can do the world a solid by taking HL down with her, she will.

The whole thing sounded like a fluff piece to promote Annie but nothing we have seen on screen this Season backed that up. Never ever do 'tell, don't show'. It's the worst storytelling. You 'show, don't tell'.

[Smad]

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

That is how you show rather than tell. Instead of having Maeve vocalize "I can't believe I'm saving you idiots since I don't believe you deserve it" she showed it with a simple eye roll. It's also one of the reasons I love her.

The actress was always doing such a great job with the small things. One of my favorites was her constantly fiddling with the bracelet on her right lower arm because that was the arm that didn't heal right after she broke it stopping the bus. She's been doing that since S1.

In this episode my fave was the literal sneer she had as soon as she saw Hughie. That was funnier to me than her 'it's like you have a neon sign...'.

[MAK]

IA with so much of what everyone is saying.

Maeve and Soldier Boy really did stay on point with the mission.

Don't really understand why Butcher was afraid for Ryan. Of the 4 blasts --- 1. Kimiko, 2. Midtown, 3. Countess, 4. Twins --- the direct blast did not kill anyone Soldier Boy didn't *want* to kill. Kimiko was hit full on and survived, and nothing happened to Frenchie at all. Butcher knew this. The other blasts had a lot of collateral damage due to the blasted buildings, not SB's energy/radiation. So if Soldier Boy points himself at Homelander and someone covers Ryan, they're very probably going to be safe, only Homelander will get hit, and if Soldier Boy's heart really isn't in killing his son, Homelander will just lose his powers. Isn't that what happened in the end with Maeve, and she was literally hugging him? Soldier Boy was not some psycho who liked to murder people.

Where did all that pearl clutching by Butcher come from? Did the Temp V affect his memory (jk)?

[MAK]

2 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

That is how you show rather than tell.

Another part where I thought this was done well was Soldier Boy's internal conflict about killing his son. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it seemed very obvious to me.  The drinking, the reminiscing about his own origins and relationship with his father, how much his father's hurtful words still affect him, isolating himself from the group before going on the mission, sleeping so he doesn't have to think about it. All of it, IMO, showed how much it was costing him to have to make a decision like that.

Then, when he finally confronts Homelander, and meets Ryan, Soldier Boy sees something that tells him that Homelander needs to be stopped, not just because of the deal with Butcher, but because Homelander is too far gone. When Soldier Boy is telling Homelander how sorry he is about how he grew up and how, just like himself, is such a disappointment, Soldier Boy's face looks old, and tired, and sad. Like this is the last thing he wants to do, but has to.

And none of this internal conflict was said out loud.

And so much praise for Jensen Ackles! (I may be a little biased.)

[millennium]

I think they squandered an opportunity with Soldier Boy as the "guest hero."   We didn't get enough of him.   Stormfront seems to have enjoyed a lot more screen time last season.   If they had cut even half of those utterly useless scenes with Frenchie and Kimiko, or the Deep, it would have given them more time to develop the Soldier Boy character.

I can't stand Hughie and wish he had gone ahead taken another dose of V.

[Bruinsfan]

On 7/8/2022 at 2:55 PM, PurpleTentacle said:

Which he never did. He was there for photo-ops after the war had been over for weeks.

Germany and Italy didn't surrender the moment the Allies took the beaches of Normandy. Soldier Boy may very well have fought Nazis once he was in Europe; all we know for sure is that he wasn't the hero of the initial D-Day operation like his propaganda said.

On 7/8/2022 at 4:40 PM, PurpleTentacle said:

He really didn't. He was just rattled that he wasn't in control. I know you like Jensen Ackles (and so do I) but you got to seperate the actor from the character. Soldier Boy has no redeeming qualities. He's shown that time and again.

I interpreted it as genuine remorse (if a bit less intense than a decent person would have after accidentally vaporizing a score of innocent people), and I'm in no way influenced by Ackles worship to give his characters a free pass. Soldier Boy is selfish, crude, dripping in toxic masculinity, and far too quick to respond with violence to any disagreement or opposition, but he does seem to be a three-dimensional character that still thinks of himself as a human being. While he likely is deluded in his protests that he's not a bad person, he at least seems to want that to be true, in marked contrast to Homelander.

When I rewatch this episode I'll be fast forwarding everything but the scenes Maeve was in. Definitely the MVP, both within the narrative and in Dominique McElligot's performance.

[MAK]

20 minutes ago, Bruinsfan said:

Soldier Boy has no redeeming qualities.

May be he has no redeeming qualities for being a POS human being, but not for being a true villain.

21 minutes ago, Bruinsfan said:

oldier Boy is selfish, crude, dripping in toxic masculinity, and far too quick to respond with violence to any disagreement or opposition, but he does seem to be a three-dimensional character that still thinks of himself as a human being.

Soldier Boy does respond to criticism and opposition with violence, he beats up or punches, or slaps the person in front of him. Homelander cuts them in half with his laser eyes. Big difference.

Soldier Boy is not pretending anything anymore.He had the public adoration and hero status, and now he sees how false it was. Doesn't change him into a better person, he's still an a*hole, but he didn't want to be that fake public person either. He could have tried to get on TV and been public about his return. He could have coerced the Legend to help him create some story about his absence, and put it in the media. He didn't.

I don't think he was even looking for redemption, he didn't regret anything he did, only some things he *didn't* do, like have some kids. He was only focused on revenge on whoever helped the Russians take him. No thoughts or plans for what will happen after that. Finding out he had a son was what made his slightly introspective, but still no remorse for any of his past actions.

[gonzosgirrl]

Now that this season is over, I would be more than happy to never hear, read or say the phrase 'toxic masculinity' ever again.

[ahrtee]

One thing nobody mentioned that SB does and HL doesn't is *think.*  Not about consequences or reactions, but at least if someone tells him something won't work or there's a better way, he listens, considers, and (usually) goes along with it.  When Butcher and Hughie pointed out that he needed help with modern technology, he listened.  When Butcher came up with plans (good or bad), you could see SB considering options.  The same way he decided whether or not to join HL. 

Maybe that's JA adding more to the character  with his expressions (we could have just had him as a stupid asshole who went along with anyone who pointed out things he hadn't thought of, or a deliberately idiotic one who decided that he knew best and he could always punch his way out of anything) but Ackles showed him understanding and choosing which way to go.  

Edited July 10, 2022 by ahrtee

[Affogato]

17 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Now that this season is over, I would be more than happy to never hear, read or say the phrase 'toxic masculinity' ever again.

I don’t think any of us can avoid encountering it in real life. 

Edited July 10, 2022 by Affogato