S04.E02: Well Enough Alone

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

I heard a fly buzz when I died.

Airing Sunday, July 3, 2022.

[AimingforYoko]

So if I've got this right, the plan is only to swap out an important few and control the rest through the nano-bot flies? (Heh, bot-flies. That's a joke, son.) Still can't figure out how Christina figures into all this, though. At least Bernard and Stubbs are back next week.

[mjc570]

One thing that struck me was how much bearded Caleb resembles the young William (Jimmi Simpson).  I have to admit that I am a bit confused by the different settings/worlds/possible time frames.  Are the scenes with the advanced planes set now? In our world? Or is that part of some future world?

[aghst]

Who's in charge, Hale or Robot William?  In any event, they're going for stealth takeover of the US govt or at least start with taking out key politicians or taking control of them.

So what happened during the war?  They got rid of that giant globe thing or Maeve and Caleb helped do that, to be liberated from some computer overlord.

Now the hosts originally designed by Ford and Delos are executing a world domination plan, but even though the VP and the Assistant Undersecretary threatened Robot William and Delos, there won't be any frontal assault on the US govt or humans.  The govt was stupid enough to come in light instead of heavy.  In every other movie and show, when the Feds come after you, it's with a SWAT team, aircraft, etc.

Hale is vindictive, going to keep William alive by freezing him but making him see them take over the world.  Hale is the merged AIs of Wyatt, Dolores and the original Charlotte Hale?

But why even bother trying a stealth takeover?  She has little regard for humans, ordered Anastasia to be taken out to the barn with other livestock.  Why not unleash a virus to wipe out human kind?  Then what, they rule the world.  So the hosts can live with each other in peace?  Because the only robot who seems to be against them is Maeve and Host MIB took out Clementine (a regular cast member but always the red shirt) and replaced with Clementine now playing for the bad guys.

The Golden Age World also doesn't make sense.  They no longer need to collect data on the rich and powerful.  Those flies make them do whatever they want or they can just keep killing key figures and replacing them with hosts.  The Host MIB was looking for Maeve and she and Caleb just happen to go and get themselves entry tickets to this new world.

So it's like a video game level, they have to fight through Golden Age World or Park and then what, return to NYC or wherever to finally take on Hale?  For the purposes of the show though, I suspect it's to fill out the season with some episodes in this setting.

That's really the only suspense, whether they can stop Hale's plans.  And I still don't get why Maeve would GAF either way.  Because if the robots win, so what?  They got their revenge but is it some great satisfaction to them?  I guess Hale enjoys torturing William physically and mentally?

Maybe Christina figures in the plot to stop Hale, because really, Maeve and Caleb fighting off Hale and her minions by themselves belies belief.

[MrWhyt]

1 hour ago, mjc570 said:

Are the scenes with the advanced planes set now? In our world? Or is that part of some future world?

The caleb/maeve and william/charlotte scenes seem to be set in show "present", who knows when/where dolores/christina is occurring. 

[Chris24601]

I think this episode definitely confirmed two separate timelines;

Timeline 1: Maeve, Caleb, Hale and William (and most likely Stubbs/Bernard) are in a “Rise of the Machines” story that explains how Hale and Williambot are relaunching the theme parks as part of their take control of humanity (and make them suffer as we have) plan. This culminates in…

Timeline 2: where Christina/Dolores 2.0 is living in a world where Hale’s plans have come to fruition and New York is a theme park/torture lab, but Christina is starting to notice the cracks in the façade.

Bernard is either in timeline 1 or in a timeline 1.5 after the rise of the machines that involves, as has been established with Dolores rebuilding Bernard in his entirety from flawless host memory, creating Chistina and introducing her into the system to eventually subvert it. The memories/story overlaps with people who died years ago are part of triggering her awakening so she can do what needs done.

At least that’s my present thoery.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

This is exciting! The return to a Park setting proves the naysayers spoke too soon. And with Host replacement of humans, we're entering the themes of Futureworld and Beyond Westworld.

[LoveLeigh]

I cannot follow this show and I cannot figure any of it out but damn... I love this season. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

5 hours ago, aghst said:

Who's in charge, Hale or Robot William?  In any event, they're going for stealth takeover of the US govt or at least start with taking out key politicians or taking control of them.

So what happened during the war?  They got rid of that giant globe thing or Maeve and Caleb helped do that, to be liberated from some computer overlord.

Now the hosts originally designed by Ford and Delos are executing a world domination plan, but even though the VP and the Assistant Undersecretary threatened Robot William and Delos, there won't be any frontal assault on the US govt or humans.  The govt was stupid enough to come in light instead of heavy.  In every other movie and show, when the Feds come after you, it's with a SWAT team, aircraft, etc.

Hale is vindictive, going to keep William alive by freezing him but making him see them take over the world.  Hale is the merged AIs of Wyatt, Dolores and the original Charlotte Hale?

But why even bother trying a stealth takeover?  She has little regard for humans, ordered Anastasia to be taken out to the barn with other livestock.  Why not unleash a virus to wipe out human kind?  Then what, they rule the world.  So the hosts can live with each other in peace?  Because the only robot who seems to be against them is Maeve and Host MIB took out Clementine (a regular cast member but always the red shirt) and replaced with Clementine now playing for the bad guys.

The Golden Age World also doesn't make sense.  They no longer need to collect data on the rich and powerful.  Those flies make them do whatever they want or they can just keep killing key figures and replacing them with hosts.  The Host MIB was looking for Maeve and she and Caleb just happen to go and get themselves entry tickets to this new world.

So it's like a video game level, they have to fight through Golden Age World or Park and then what, return to NYC or wherever to finally take on Hale?  For the purposes of the show though, I suspect it's to fill out the season with some episodes in this setting.

That's really the only suspense, whether they can stop Hale's plans.  And I still don't get why Maeve would GAF either way.  Because if the robots win, so what?  They got their revenge but is it some great satisfaction to them?  I guess Hale enjoys torturing William physically and mentally?

Maybe Christina figures in the plot to stop Hale, because really, Maeve and Caleb fighting off Hale and her minions by themselves belies belief.

I think Charlores gave an explanation for why not just kill all humans: you can't win unless someone is there to lose. Wiping out all humans means game over. Keeping the humans alive means the Hosts can continue winning indefinitely.

As far as I know, the data Delos collected on humankind was lost. But in any case, it's also very possible that the Hosts have another agenda for the humans in bringing them to the park. It could be anything from replacing humans with hosts to forcing them to navigate a hostile park in a sense of poetic justice for the Hosts having been raped and murdered millions of times over the years.

I don't get why Charlores/William apparently want Maeve to go to Golden Age World. 

[Haleth]

6 hours ago, Chris24601 said:

I think this episode definitely confirmed two separate timelines;

Timeline 1: Maeve, Caleb, Hale and William (and most likely Stubbs/Bernard) are in a “Rise of the Machines” story that explains how Hale and Williambot are relaunching the theme parks as part of their take control of humanity (and make them suffer as we have) plan. This culminates in…

Timeline 2: where Christina/Dolores 2.0 is living in a world where Hale’s plans have come to fruition and New York is a theme park/torture lab, but Christina is starting to notice the cracks in the façade.

Bernard is either in timeline 1 or in a timeline 1.5 after the rise of the machines that involves, as has been established with Dolores rebuilding Bernard in his entirety from flawless host memory, creating Chistina and introducing her into the system to eventually subvert it. The memories/story overlaps with people who died years ago are part of triggering her awakening so she can do what needs done.

At least that’s my present thoery.

Thanks.  That all makes sense.  I think it's pretty clear now that Christina is a host in a park.  The parallels to her life as Original Recipe Dolores are not coincidence.  

6 hours ago, aghst said:

 And I still don't get why Maeve would GAF either way.

I know!  Why would she care, except that Hale/Dolores and William came after her first?

Man, I'd love to visit Golden Age Park.  Prohibition era Chicago sounds like fun.  Except for the mobsters.  You know Maeve and Caleb will be dodging machine gun totin' mobsters.

[paigow]

7 minutes ago, Haleth said:

Man, I'd love to visit Golden Age Park.  Prohibition era Chicago sounds like fun.  Except for the mobsters.  You know Maeve and Caleb will be dodging machine gun totin' mobsters.

Maybe some of these guys will show up...

[Waldo13]

I can buy into the different time line narrative because Bernard “woke up” in a much longer time span than the 7 years that past when Maeve was in hiding. 

I’m speculating that someway somehow Christina/Dolores takes down Hale and William with help from Bernard. Plus Hale is really the old Delores who eventually chose to see the beauty. 

I’m also speculating that Bernard reanimated Christina/Dolores because why would Hale want her reanimated?  

[MollyB]

5 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I think Charlores gave an explanation for why not just kill all humans: you can't win unless someone is there to lose. Wiping out all humans means game over. Keeping the humans alive means the Hosts can continue winning indefinitely.

Torturing a POW is not winning-it's pure sadism.  

I don't understand why Dolores and all her iterations are so hell bent on making humankind suffer.  Enough already.  If your new awareness (awakeness?) tells you how bad the things humans do are, why would you want to do the same?  Dolores made it clear in season 2 that she wanted their world, not a nice new happy one that one of the other hosts suggested.  Guess Ford/Arnold/Bernard left a little too much grudge in the programming.

Is Robot MIB another Dolores?  Were all the brain balls Charlores smuggled out all Doloreses?

Edited July 4, 2022 by MollyB

[BloomsburyRez]

5 minutes ago, MollyB said:

Is Robot MIB another Dolores?  Were all the brain balls Charlores smuggled out all Doloreses?

That’s what I was thinking. I don’t think that the host MIB we are seeing now is the host William that his daughter was doing fidelity testing on. I’m wondering who he is, another Charlotte/Dolores, maybe Ford? Someone else?

I may start rewatching the corresponding Season 1 episode before each new one, just as there were so many pilot callbacks last week, there are some S1E2 things that I caught despite not seeing it in a while. Off the top of my head, Dolores having confusion about timelines/memories when she keeps finding/remembering the gun, the arrival of Maeve & Caleb mimicking Logan/William (I also caught that the welcome host was the “replacement Clementine” in season 1), Charlotte & William keeping the human wife alive like the MIB with Lawrence, and Ford walking around doing a trick with the snake to his younger self like William hitting the holes in one. 
 

I also think in the two separate timelines we are seeing a new hybrid park in NYC with humans living among hosts to a greater degree. I also think Christina’s roommate is her superior/minder to make sure she stays on a loop. 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

21 minutes ago, MollyB said:

Is Robot MIB another Dolores?  Were all the brain balls Charlores smuggled out all Doloreses?

It was stated last season that the four pearls Dolores smuggled out of Westworld alongside Bernard's were all Dolores copies, yes, but they're all accounted for (Halores, Fake Martin, Fake Musashi, Fake Lawrence). This is a new pearl. It's unclear whether the pearl in the host version of William is another Dolores or a copy of William himself. I tend to think the latter based on his mannerisms, referencing actual memories of William (whereas Halores didn't have Hale's recollections and had to look things up), and the fact that William's personality had been extensively scanned by the system already so it was definitely available. Plus the fact that Halores is trying to do something different from what Dolores did in general.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Noneofyourbusiness

[aghst]

Thing about Christina in a NYC park is that it's not very theme park like.  Why would people choose to pay a lot of money to visit such place?

Someone says at one point that it's been almost 150 years since the first world war so that would place them around 2050 or 2060.

That is probably what Manhattan would look like 30-40 years from now.

Then again, I question why Delos would re-open any theme parks after the massacres there.  They said the original WW was near the Chinese coast.  But in this episode, Maeve and Caleb pass by NYC or some other modern city skyline in the distance on their train towards the Golden Age park.

I think to fill up 10 episodes a season, they have to keep several subplots going -- like other shows.  They may try to merge all these subplots or separate timelines at some point, to make it all coherent but they've struggled to do that in the series.  Remember how big robot heaven was in season 2?  Nobody mentions it any more now.  WW is destroyed along with all the looms which make robots.  All that infrastructure gone but now they make new robots in the outside world and these are upgraded models, not so easily taken over by Maeve's mind control trick.

Point is, all that's happened previously mean nothing, new quests or goals arise.  The only thing that endures is that anyone can be a host and hosts are killed off but they can be re-manufactured just like that -- Clementine wasn't out of action too long.

Also the previous plot about humans trying to dump their consciousness into a host, that seems gone as well.  There will be hosts of key human beings but there won't be a human consciousness in there any more.

So what exactly is at stake?  Hale either takes over or not?  Would it be tragic if William finally died?  Or Caleb is killed and replaced by host, his daughter and wife as well?  Or if humans win and crush Hale and all the hosts, would it be triumphant?  Well the hosts had their own consciousness so why shouldn't their deaths be almost or equally tragic as deaths of humans?

[BloomsburyRez]

31 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

It was stated last season that the four pearls Dolores smuggled out of Westworld alongside Bernard's were all Dolores copies, yes, but they're all accounted for (Halores, Fake Martin, Fake Musashi, Fake Lawrence)

True but I don’t think this would preclude the MIB from being one as Charlotte could have taken the pearl from one of the others and put it in a new host. William’s memories could be from every conversation he had in the parks over the decades from his early ones with Logan & Delores to the ones with his daughter. It could also be any previous host that they created a copy pearl for. My personal hope is that it is Ford, he “uploaded” a version of himself into the cradle before he died, Bernard interacted with him when Elsie put his pearl into the cradle. I think that would be a great twist, plus petty revenge if Ford is using William. The way he theatrically introduced the new park seemed very Ford. 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

39 minutes ago, BloomsburyRez said:

True but I don’t think this would preclude the MIB from being one as Charlotte could have taken the pearl from one of the others and put it in a new host.

Fake Martin's pearl was destroyed, Fake Musashi's was delivered to Serac and possibly destroyed, and when we last saw him/her Fake Lawrence was still working to the original Dolores's plan by helping Bernard and this was probably around the same time Halores created the new William. So I wouldn't bet on it being one of them.

42 minutes ago, BloomsburyRez said:

My personal hope is that it is Ford, he “uploaded” a version of himself into the cradle before he died, Bernard interacted with him when Elsie put his pearl into the cradle. I think that would be a great twist, plus petty revenge if Ford is using William. The way he theatrically introduced the new park seemed very Ford. 

That would certainly be an interesting possibility.

48 minutes ago, aghst said:

Then again, I question why Delos would re-open any theme parks after the massacres there.  They said the original WW was near the Chinese coast.  But in this episode, Maeve and Caleb pass by NYC or some other modern city skyline in the distance on their train towards the Golden Age park.

Because Delos is now controlled by Halores, Host William and any other Hosts they've put in place there to make things run smoothly. And it was still a highly controversial move that required them to replace and control people like the Vice President, the counterterrorism guy and the rich couple.

[paigow]

2 hours ago, aghst said:

Would it be tragic if William finally died? 

Next time Hale hits the Defrost button... maybe this guy shows up instead...

[thuganomics85]

Ah, so it looks like we're going to a new park!  The Golden Age World or whatever it is!  It's a good as choice as any, but I'll admit my first thought was wondering if this was a way for HBO to dust off those old Boardwalk Empire props and set decorations!

So, it looks like Hale and Robot William (although, I think Hale is the one that is actually in charge) plan it to basically stealth takeover the world with her new robot bugs, because, well, humans or the worst more or less.  She's not only got Clementine back in her thrall, but already took over the Vice President and others as well.  Certainly off to a strong start!  That said, if I've learned anything from all of my television viewing, you just know her keeping around the real William to mock him is so going to backfire somehow.

Cool seeing Jack Coleman (HRG!) and Saffron Burrows as the Whitneys (and their hosts!)

Still not sure what to make of the stuff with Christina, but I'm sure it will play out at some point.  Still hoping there will be more to her roommate because Ariana DeBose shouldn't settle for the atypical BFF role.  Definitely think Christina's boss is up to no good.

Thandiwe Newton continues to be awesome as Maeve.

Fun seeing New Clementine/Lili Simmons again as well.

Glad Bernard will be back next week: been missing my weekly Jeffrey Wright awesomeness.

Still not fully sure about everything this season, but it's at least starting out stronger than season three.

[BloomsburyRez]

47 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Still hoping there will be more to her roommate because Ariana DeBose shouldn't settle for the atypical BFF role. 

I’m wondering too if there is more to her part but also not sure if I’m expecting it since she’s a current Oscar winner and an amazing actress. However this filmed over a year ago and WSS was still many months from its release date, prior to that she was more known by musical theatre fans. 
 

With the probable time jump she could possibly be Caleb’s daughter. Depending on what happens with what he’s doing with Maeve he could die, live but never return to the wife/daughter for their safety, or return but be even more paranoid and focused on training his daughter. Depending on how much her childhood was messed up she could blame Dolores/Christine for bringing her father into that world to begin with. 

Edited July 4, 2022 by BloomsburyRez

[Zaffy]

I am still  not sure what the story is and who is who or who is IN who, but so far I like it.
Thandiwe Newton  is dynamite!

[Noneofyourbusiness]

35 minutes ago, Zaffy said:

Thandiwe Newton  is dynamite!

As usual!

[Chris24601]

I suspect who the pearl was originally isn’t terribly important. Host personalities are completely re-writable just by adjusting settings in their code. Halores certainly grew into a version very different (in personality and priorities) from the Dolores who sacrificed herself to shut down Rehabom.

I think the primary value to using copies of herself for Dolores was that the shared memories provided a baseline she thought would keep everyone loyal long enough to carry out what was, for the most part, a suicide mission. She didn’t expect Halores to deviate as quickly as she did.

One prospect the discussion of the Lawerence/Dolores copy that just occurred to me that could explain Christina is that Dolores put the codes to the Sublime into Bernard and didn’t have them when she was deleted, but to put them into him she had to have them at some point. She also, through her Lawrence version, gave Bernard the device to reach the Sublime… which also means original Dolores had the device at some point.Finally, we know Teddy was last seen in Sublime, but is now watching over Christina in New York.

So, crazy thought, knowing that her mission to destroy Rehoboam was going to be a one way trip and having said to Maeve just before she was deleted that the beauty humans created was worth protecting… could she have included herself as the creation of Arnold in that list of beautiful things to be preserved and used the access codes before deleting them from herself and the device before it was delivered to Bernard to upload an unmodified copy of herself to the Sublime?

Because what I’m suspecting is the twist involving the timelines is that the past timeline with Halores/William/Maeve/Caleb is about unlocking the data secured at the Hoover Dam and that the NYC “Park” has Christina and Teddy in it is because the Sublime data has been cracked and is being used for some end of Halores we haven’t had explained to us yet.

There are still some holes in the potential multiple timelines for me… one being the clip of Caleb in NYC looking pretty much as he does now somewhat limiting the timeframe NYC being in the future could be. Conversely, something as big as that tower the crazy guy, sketches and the credits appears to be, couldn’t go up overnight without people noticing, yet no one sees it and it is apparently actually in NYC since Christina was able to drive over to New Jersey to check out the mental hospital.

Which reminds me… I don’t think it’s an accident that right after Christina wishes for the construction people to keep on moving they do exactly as she was hoping. Connect that with the stalker whose story played out exactly as Christina wrote it and I think we’re going to see a continuing pattern that Dolores is somehow controlling the flow of her story inside the NYC Park. Almost as if she’s written her own awakening into the park’s narrative.

 I stand by my hunch; Christina is a spanner in the works whose presence in NYC (the end goal of Halores’ plans) was planted by one or more of Maeve, Caleb or Bernard… possibly even on a suicide mission akin to the one Dolores made to destroy Rehaboam… and the big twist reveal of the season will be that what will look like utter defeat at the climax of Christina’s story is actually the moment of victory set up by the past crew (akin to the reveal in s2 that the Hale in the present timeline was actually Dolores all along).

[Chicago Redshirt]

21 hours ago, aghst said:

Thing about Christina in a NYC park is that it's not very theme park like.  Why would people choose to pay a lot of money to visit such place?

This is assuming that 1. this is a physical location rather than a cyber-one and 2. those who are here are by choice and c. they are paying a lot of money to do so.

Any of those assumptions may be invalid.

But even accepting those assumptions, I bet a lot of well-to-do people would enjoy going to a Contemporary Reality World where they could shoot, fuck and do whatever and whoever they want without apparent consequence. If it's a slightly more grounded and detailed Grand Theft Auto that we're just seeing a sliver of, that would have attraction for some folks.

And there is another possibility: we are looking at a future future time frame when the 2050s are looked at the way we might look at the time frames that WestWorld and the other parks are looked at. Simulated life in the 2050s would be as thematic to people who are in the 2150s as simulated life in the 1880s was to those in the 2040s (or whenever S1 would have been set).

[meep.meep]

22 hours ago, aghst said:

Then again, I question why Delos would re-open any theme parks after the massacres there.  They said the original WW was near the Chinese coast.  But in this episode, Maeve and Caleb pass by NYC or some other modern city skyline in the distance on their train towards the Golden Age park.

The discussion between William and the VP at the golf course centered on Delos building in the US, rather than off-shore.  VP was against it.  So the parks are no longer at the site of the original WW, but somewhere in the western US, judging by the dam shot in the previous episode.

[aghst]

Regardless of where they build it, you would think Delos would have tanked as a company after word of the massacres got out.

It's not like they can suppress it, because hundreds or thousands of people went to WW and never returned.

[Chicago Redshirt]

27 minutes ago, aghst said:

Regardless of where they build it, you would think Delos would have tanked as a company after word of the massacres got out.

It's not like they can suppress it, because hundreds or thousands of people went to WW and never returned.

I tend to doubt that the number of paying customers who were killed at the parks number that high. 

In any case, I would not underestimate the power of a Delos to spin, influence, blackmail etc. its way out of serious trouble.

[MollyB]

23 hours ago, aghst said:

Thing about Christina in a NYC park is that it's not very theme park like.  Why would people choose to pay a lot of money to visit such place?

Maybe the real-life future (in 2050+) is so bleak and confined that it's a treat/vacation to go to a city from the Olden Days.  I'm thinking futures such as Soylent Green or even the Matrix (living in a pod) when I imagine bleak and confined.

Although, when I saw/heard the men at the train talking about how cool it was going to be I thought they were getting ready to go by train to one of the worlds.  [Flashback to Original Westworld with Brolin and Benjamins' pre-entry to Westworld talks.]  The city is just a hub for the parks and also headquarters for writers like Dolores/Christina. 

[aghst]

9 hours ago, MollyB said:

Maybe the real-life future (in 2050+) is so bleak and confined that it's a treat/vacation to go to a city from the Olden Days.  I'm thinking futures such as Soylent Green or even the Matrix (living in a pod) when I imagine bleak and confined.

Although, when I saw/heard the men at the train talking about how cool it was going to be I thought they were getting ready to go by train to one of the worlds.  [Flashback to Original Westworld with Brolin and Benjamins' pre-entry to Westworld talks.]  The city is just a hub for the parks and also headquarters for writers like Dolores/Christina. 

Well if that's the case, they haven't depicted it yet.

Caleb seems to be living in a nice place, not luxurious but comfortable.  And he's a construction worker.

Of course we saw William in this huge golf course.

The people walking on the High Line to work didn't seem like they were deprived.  Christina is a game designer/writer who hasn't had any big success yet.  She has to have a room mate but if she needs, she can get a ride share to New Jersey.

They don't show ravages of climate change or anything like that.

9 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I tend to doubt that the number of paying customers who were killed at the parks number that high. 

In any case, I would not underestimate the power of a Delos to spin, influence, blackmail etc. its way out of serious trouble.

Sure they could suppress information.  Supposedly a not-insignificant number of people die on cruises and it's not that highly publicized.  We're not talking about people getting sick but unexplained deaths or people going missing.

But rich people were going to WW, not middle class who saved up for a cruise these days.  And a lot of Delos executives got executed at Ford's little party in season 1 IIRC.

Very hard to believe that survivors of the victims wouldn't make noise and get some media coverage.

I'm actually skeptical that WW would be that big a draw anyways.  Maybe some people go for the novelty one time but to be repeat visitors, just so they can fuck and shoot robots?

Imagine if people went to brothels regularly these days.  If it got out, some people would be shunned.  It's not something one talks about.

WW is not dissimilar from a brothel, place to go meet certain needs or let your id go unrestrained.  Only way Delos draws that rich clientele is with very strict confidentiality, like maybe high-end escort services these days.  But it's not a huge client base that these businesses have.

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, aghst said:

Sure they could suppress information.  Supposedly a not-insignificant number of people die on cruises and it's not that highly publicized.  We're not talking about people getting sick but unexplained deaths or people going missing.

But rich people were going to WW, not middle class who saved up for a cruise these days.  And a lot of Delos executives got executed at Ford's little party in season 1 IIRC.

Very hard to believe that survivors of the victims wouldn't make noise and get some media coverage.

I'm actually skeptical that WW would be that big a draw anyways.  Maybe some people go for the novelty one time but to be repeat visitors, just so they can fuck and shoot robots?

Imagine if people went to brothels regularly these days.  If it got out, some people would be shunned.  It's not something one talks about.

WW is not dissimilar from a brothel, place to go meet certain needs or let your id go unrestrained.  Only way Delos draws that rich clientele is with very strict confidentiality, like maybe high-end escort services these days.  But it's not a huge client base that these businesses have.

I'm fairly sure that we saw that there was at least some media coverage. There seemed to be a website with a story about the massacre featured sometime relatively recently.

I freely admit I could be wrong, but I think that there are very few guests who were killed and that it was mostly Delos employees, executives and contractors. Those people could mostly be NDA'ed or otherwise silenced. (I suppose any guests could too get paid off, but that might be a bigger ask. I think we saw that Maeve and Caleb had to sign liability waivers. it could be that something like that was in place even before the massacre).

I don't see why WW (and the other parks) would not be a huge draw. Think about how many people go to Disney and other theme parks, where the experience is way too tame and not really interactive. Consider how many people play games like Grand Theft Auto and its variants, where the gist is you get to simulate committing crimes, and where the base experience has been much the same for like 25-30 years. Now consider that Delos was regularly updating stories/sections of the park to keep people's interest high, offers a far more immersive experience in the first place, and is catering to the ultrarich.

[tennisgurl]

Oh look, the timeline's drunk again. Looks like its time to break out my old board and strings to try and see when anything is happening and why. I think that William creating his new park and Maeve/Caleb trying to stop the rise of the machines are happening around the same time, but it could also be that William's part is the earliest, with Maeve/Caleb happening after that when the park is up and running, and Christina in some kind of future park, who is awakening again? Although this city park certainly seems a lot different than the previous parks, no obvious sex and murder, no major plots that we can see happening that hosts have to be involved with, it makes me think that this is something else. Or is Christina not even in a world, but a video game simulation? She's just a consciousness, not even an actual robot body. Maybe its some kind of hybrid park with humans and robots living together? Is her boss her handler? Her roommate? Is it just Christina?

I have no idea where this season is going, but its certainly more interesting than last season, they actually seem to have an idea of what they want to do and say here. Although, I still say that Free Guy, which has an eerily similar premise to this show, had more to say about AI, free will, and the relationship between AI and humanity in a two hour comedy than this shows whole long, rambling, intensely self important third season.

I am excited for Golden Age world, I always like seeing new parks and how they play similar beats in new genres and locations, which I have always thought was an interesting meta aspect of the show. No matter the genre of the story, there are always commonalities. 

That eye move always makes me twitch, human or robot.

[Tachi Rocinante]

• Liking the direction this season is heading. Maybe Nucky can make a cameo in Prohibition World.
• Ariana DeBose may be a multiple award winner, but she is horrible in this (so far).  She's as wooden as the furniture.
• The three aces in a row was stupid. Are we to assume he shoots in the 50s every time he plays golf? What's the point?

[Mindthinkr]

On 7/4/2022 at 12:59 PM, aghst said:

But in this episode, Maeve and Caleb pass by NYC or some other modern city skyline in the distance on their train towards the Golden Age park.

I think I remember seeing the same skyline when William was going to the Hoover Dam in S4:E1. So my guess is that city was Las Vegas. 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Mindthinkr

[Chris24601]

4 hours ago, Tachi Rocinante said:

• The three aces in a row was stupid. Are we to assume he shoots in the 50s every time he plays golf? What's the point?

I believe the point of it was what youngsters these days call a “flex”; gloating or showing off.

Basically, HostWilliam was using his ability to precisely duplicate his golf swing* as a means of demonstrating his complete superiority over the VP he was either going to get to go along with his plan or was going to shortly be replacing with a duplicate.

It was an intimidation tactic because William, real or host, is a sadist and he didn’t just want the VP dead, he wanted him frightened for his life first.

* forget shooting 50’s; Hosts can theoretically Ace every hole on a course so long as they have the right data inputs. There’s zero sport in the sport for him. HostWilliam wasn’t out on the course for any reason other than to start the VP in a situation where the VP felt like he had an advantage and then use his inhuman abilities to then throw him off balance and then outright terrify his victim.

Edited July 6, 2022 by Chris24601

[Avaleigh]

On 7/3/2022 at 10:30 PM, Noneofyourbusiness said:

This is exciting! The return to a Park setting proves the naysayers spoke too soon. And with Host replacement of humans, we're entering the themes of Futureworld and Beyond Westworld.

I'm finally back on board the Westworld love train. I hated season 3 but this episode finally pulled me back in and I'm eager to see next week. I haven't felt this way since season 2. 

Definitely looking forward to seeing the Golden Age. 

[patty1h]

I'm not feeling any interest so far this season. So boring - just a bunch of stiffs mouthing random lines. I'm really hating Thandiwe's "chipper droll assassin", calling everyone 'darling'. Am I supposed to care about these characters or storylines? I ain't, so this is getting deleted from my DVR.

[jrzy]

On 7/4/2022 at 1:06 AM, LoveLeigh said:

I cannot follow this show and I cannot figure any of it out but damn... I love this season. 

That's exactly how I feel,  I search various threads regarding the show to try to figure out what's happening, but I am totally hooked.

However,  I am upset about the horses and other animals.  Go ahead with your cruelty to humans who deserve it, but not to animals.  

[Ottis]

On 7/4/2022 at 10:59 AM, aghst said:

So what exactly is at stake?

Some of the myths of the prior world, perhaps like robot heaven, no longer exist or have been debunked by actual events. What is stake is the fate of the human race.

It some ways, it feels like The Matrix to me. Humans created machines and abused them, machines became sentient, machines conquered humans. In Westworld, a similar battle occurs, and then perhaps the Matrix-like resistance begins.

Where each of us falls on the morality of any of this may vary. There was a point a couple of seasons ago that robots were more human than humans. Many were sympathetic to Dolores and Maeve. Are they still? 

Mostly, THEY WENT BACK TO THE PARKS! FINALLY! Leaving the parks was the show's biggest mistake, IMO.

[NaughtyKitty]

How has nobody mentioned how horrifyingly bad Tessa Thompson's acting was?  It was super noticeable during her monologue walking back and forth in front of handless William.  I can't believe the powers that be kept that in.  It jarred me out of the story,

[Starchild]

Something I just thought of. Books aside, since I haven't read much sci-fi beyond Star Trek tie-ins, there are many films and series and standalone TV eps where our heroes come across a society ruled by robots who rose up against their biological creators. Think Matrix, BSG, and many episodes of Star Trek, just to name a few.

But it's always something that has already happened. How many have shown us that process as it happens, especially in long form? I can't think of any off the top of my head. Caprica was set to, but was cancelled after the first season.

Westworld just might be the only long form series to do it. At least that I'm aware of. I haven't seen most of the Terminator properties so not sure if anything happened there.

I'm diggin' it.

Oh and I still see no use for Caleb. So far, this story could have been told without him.

[greyhorse]

I almost quit this series during last season's disaster of a storyline.  Mainly because I couldn't follow it and didn't understand the timeline.  Then I'd come on these boards and read all the discussion and wonder just how dumb I must be since I still don't get it, yet everyone here seems to have a crystal clear understanding of who is who, who is a bot, who is real, timeline jumps, etc.

So this season rolls around and I get sucked back in.  I'm excited to see them go back into a world, but now I'm reading all these comments and once again realize I have no idea what the eff is going on.  I feel like I need the dumbed down version of Westworld.  Why is it only me that doesn't understand this show???

[Noneofyourbusiness]

9 hours ago, Starchild said:

Westworld just might be the only long form series to do it. At least that I'm aware of. I haven't seen most of the Terminator properties so not sure if anything happened there.

Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles was cancelled before it could get there. It was a good TV show.

3 hours ago, greyhorse said:

So this season rolls around and I get sucked back in.  I'm excited to see them go back into a world, but now I'm reading all these comments and once again realize I have no idea what the eff is going on.  I feel like I need the dumbed down version of Westworld.  Why is it only me that doesn't understand this show???

Judging by some of the above comments, you're not the only one. If you have any specific questions, we can try to answer them.

[Starchild]

14 hours ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles was cancelled before it could get there. It was a good TV show.

So the same fate as Caprica then.

Looks like Westworld just might cross the finish line, and we'll finally have a show that actually visualizes a robot uprising from start to finish.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

2 hours ago, Starchild said:

So the same fate as Caprica then.

And they were both scored by Bear McCreary.

[Joimiaroxeu]

William's not a psychopath, he's neurodivergent with an amazing golf swing! Don't get it twisted Mr. Vice President. Oh well...

The Golden Age. Another era which wasn't so great for most people of color, unless they were rich but even that was no guarantee in certain parts of the US. This should be interesting.

[paigow]

21 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Another era which wasn't so great for most people of color

American History is essentially American History X - so finding a POC friendly era is like resisting the Borg....

[Noneofyourbusiness]

2 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

The Golden Age. Another era which wasn't so great for most people of color, unless they were rich but even that was no guarantee in certain parts of the US. This should be interesting.

I imagine that like Westworld, this park will ignore the guests' skin color.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

American History is essentially American History X - so finding a POC friendly era is like resisting the Borg....

Some past eras are less friendly than others, while futuristic eras could eliminate racial distinctions altogether. Among humans, anyway. Once alien species start arriving, all bets are off. 😉

Quote

I imagine that like Westworld, this park will ignore the guests' skin color.

Sure, but I wasn't thinking primarily of the guests' potential mistreatment. I think it'll be another timeframe in which they might feel entitled to abuse certain hosts of color, because history.

[RachelKM]

This episode was a fun ride, until the end with Caleb and Maeve.  How fucking dumb are they?  They were literally kidnapped to the new Delos park (unless I'm mistaken, they thought they were meeting in the concert hall) and it doesn't occur to them that getting into the operations area wasn't anticipated by Delos if not expressly intended? Delos knows Maeve knows how operations work and how to get into the control areas.  Fuck, they had a fucking mass casualty side challenged based on the hosts escaping. There were reservations for them with their actual pictures and false IDs with bespoke costumes FFS.  

The whole thing was essentially a park program to get Caleb to the flies - a Caleb and Maeve specific Easter egg side challenge. And for all her apparent awareness of the way Delos and WW operated, it never even registered with Maeve that they were brought in there on purpose? She doesn't question that they met with NO resistance wandering around the place or that she magically finally got through the locks just in time to save (Host)Frankie? Goddamit Show! 

Edited July 14, 2022 by RachelKM