S04.E01: The Auguries

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Hello again. Don’t worry about a thing. It’s all in your head.

Season four debuts Sunday, June 26, 2022.

[Quilt Fairy]

Well, that episode was better than all of S3 combined.   Makes me want to see where they take it. 

[LoveLeigh]

I didn't like it. It became a different show. I loved season 1 and the themes but this is too far removed from the original premise. 

Plus I don't even remember who many of these minor characters are so it is hard to follow. I turned it off at the halfway point. Maybe a synopsis or refresher of season 3 would help. 

[Waldo13]

This is going to be a very thought provoking season 🤔. 

Blonde or dark hair, Evan is still beautiful. 

[CarpeFelis]

52 minutes ago, LoveLeigh said:

Plus I don't even remember who many of these minor characters are so it is hard to follow. I turned it off at the halfway point. Maybe a synopsis or refresher of season 3 would help. 

The HBO Max app had a season 1-3 refresher at the start of the episode and also available as a separate clip.

I liked it. Wondering why this Peter guy thought NotDolores was writing his life and what William is trying to do. And then there was that little surprise at the end. Who else might show up this season?

Brief glimpse of Manny Montana (so brief I had to check IMDB to be sure). I wonder if his character will show up again.

Edited June 27, 2022 by CarpeFelis

[BlackberryJam]

So…I went to HBOMax to watch the new episode and hit play. Imagine my surprise when we were back in the original Westworld, Anthony Hopkins was there, the original host storylines were playing out and I was thinking, “Wow, way to get back to the original, are they resetting the story? Am I going to have to rewatch the pilot episode to see all the differences? I’m going to have to check on line when it’s over because I’m sure there will be a side by side comparison of every scene.” I was really looking forward to it because it seemed like they were ignoring S3 altogether.

And then, after a while, I realized I was actually watching s1e1.  Ugh. I’d thought the show was actually doing a reset and was fascinated by where it would go.

Imagine my disappointment in actually watching s4e1. I cannot say enough times how little I care about the guy played by Aaron Paul. Giving him a cute daughter and beautiful wife doesn’t make me care enough to even remember his name. He’s the epitome of everything I hated about s3. I love me some Maeve, but I’m going to fastforward through even AP scene from here on out. 

Having rewatched most of the pilot, I was disappointed to see a return of Dolores in jeopardy and incapable of any self-defense. It was like she’d had zero character development from the pilot, but perhaps that was intentional. What made me really care about that arc was the expression on James Marsden’s face. 

What a waste of ADB. I hope she’s not just throwaway roommate. 

I miss Hector and Stubbs, Elsie and Armistice, Sizemore and Bernard. 

[CarpeFelis]

12 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

And then, after a while, I realized I was actually watching s1e1.  Ugh. I’d thought the show was actually doing a reset and was fascinated by where it would go.

The app did the same thing to me.

I kind of enjoyed the little Easter egg where Christina/NotDolores was initially pitching a story about a girl who lived with her disabled dad out in the country.

Also, I thought blind date guy was going to turn out to be someone sinister, but he was just kind of a jerk.

[enchantingmonkey]

58 minutes ago, LoveLeigh said:

I didn't like it. It became a different show. I loved season 1 and the themes but this is too far removed from the original premise. 

Wasn't Season 1 about a Human attempting to convince the Machines that they were actually Beings capable of Free Will?  Sure, the Show is no longer set in the Parks but I don't think the themes of the Show are far removed from that.  I will agree that the Showrunners have failed at making subsequent seasons as compelling as Season 1, though.

This new episode was better than I expected, which isn't saying much.  I liked that They quickly gave Maeve a purpose, I was intrigued by whatever is going on with Dolores/Christina (Christores?), and I got goosebumps when we finally saw Teddy's face.  And I'm not even a SuperFan of Teddy's.  

It was nice to have a break from Halores, although I'm guessing she be a major player in every other episode.  Maybe she'll go Full Throttle Mustache-Twirling Villain.  Hopefully.  Tessa Thompson has never sold me on her being an emotionally complex Human/Machine Hybrid.  I might buy that she's a Heartless Human Hating Bad Ass.  

I'll watch it again and listen to some recaps on YouTube, and see if it starts to become more interesting than last season.

[enchantingmonkey]

7 minutes ago, CarpeFelis said:

I kind of enjoyed the little Easter egg where Christina/NotDolores was initially pitching a story about a girl who lived with her disabled dad out in the country.

An Easter Egg, or an indication that she's still stuck in her "little loops", as Ford called them.  I'm still not fully convinced that any of them are capable of Free Will.  

[MrWhyt]

I don't think its much of a stretch to posit that not-Dolores is in some kind of simulation. And who didn't expect to see Teddy at the end?

[Starchild]

The show is still good, but not as good as when it was still set in the park.

[Cthulhudrew]

I hope that Aaron Stanford's role isn't just a one-off in this episode. I really enjoy him as a performer (and I miss 12 Monkeys).

[aghst]

i also watched most of the pilot again.

My reaction was annoyance because were we suppose to figure out whats different?

Plus the park was gutted so how was it running again?  Also did they somehow get Hopkins back again or get Sidse Babbett Knudsen again?  I’ve been rewatching Borgen and she seems so much older.

Let me get this straight, a drug cartel took over Hoover Dam and built a data center which contains all the WW data William has been after?

And William uses robot flies to get the cartel bosses to kill each other and hand over the Dam and the cloud?  Breaking Bad this is not, even with Aaron Paul in tHe cast.

So after the war, Caleb can have his manual labor job again, rather thAn controlling a robot.  But all good, got a wife and kid, though apparently has been looking over his shoulder.

I don’t recall what the MIB did in season 3.  Or if he was after Maeve in all the seasons.  He must still have access to a host machine and some of those bocce balls which are suppose to be host brains?

Maeve lives off the grid and drives dirty gas cars, even though gas might be scarce with all the flying cars.  Future NYC is very walkable — though all the properties near the High Line are expensive.  Christina isn’t producing hit games, may lose her job, but she apparently lives in a very nice part of future Manhattan.

Will the plot be more engrossing or they’re mainly going to deliver fantastic scenery and striking production design?

[paigow]

3 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

I hope that Aaron Stanford's role isn't just a one-off in this episode.

He is the spinning top from Inception 

[Haleth]

7 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

So…I went to HBOMax to watch the new episode and hit play. Imagine my surprise when we were back in the original Westworld, Anthony Hopkins was there, the original host storylines were playing out and I was thinking, “Wow, way to get back to the original, are they resetting the story? Am I going to have to rewatch the pilot episode to see all the differences? I’m going to have to check on line when it’s over because I’m sure there will be a side by side comparison of every scene.” I was really looking forward to it because it seemed like they were ignoring S3 altogether.

Ha!  I did too but caught it during the opening credits.  Anthony Hopkins?  Oh.  Oops.  Dang it.

I'm kind of intrigued.  I'd probably rather watch an hour of Maeve kicking ass but the notDolores storyline has me wondering if she's living in a park, not NYC, and writing stories for the hosts.  Was Peter actually a host that didn't like where his story went?  Will Christina somehow be connected to Dolores?  Teddy seems to think so.  

2 hours ago, paigow said:

He is the spinning top from Inception 

Yeah, something like that.

(Every season I have to check with imdb to make sure her name is Dolores, not Delores.)

I don't remember much about season 3 except for Marshawn Lynch and Masayoshi Haneda (thanks again, imdb!).  There was a war?  Still don't care about Caleb even with an adorable daughter.

Flies are gross enough even when they don't eat your brain and make you kill your coworkers (and yourself).  

[Tachi Rocinante]

There was a very brief throwaway bit when Dolores was walking to work, where three guys were having a conversation about "this place is wild, I can't believe it's your first time."  It seemed too nuanced to be a couple of guys taking their friend to the big city. She noticed it and paused, but who knows.

The previews showed them in the "Roaring 20s" or whatever, so that could be interesting.

[AusTvWatcher]

I think Christina is in a park. When Peter attacked her there was that guy that came out of nowhere and started bashing him and then they disappeared into thin air. 

[Tachi Rocinante]

Forgot to add, for my Big Sky peeps, I guess T-Lock is a moron in any universe. 😆

[Starchild]

10 hours ago, CarpeFelis said:

I kind of enjoyed the little Easter egg where Christina/NotDolores was initially pitching a story about a girl who lived with her disabled dad out in the country.

The character was even wearing the Season 1 blue dress.

[skotnikov]

Gosh that was mind-blowingly awful. Why do they do it to the show? 

[paigow]

This iteration of Ed Harris has to be a host... if all the Delos files are encrypted, how is he able to keep the park functioning?

[Chicago Redshirt]

3 hours ago, paigow said:

This iteration of Ed Harris has to be a host... if all the Delos files are encrypted, how is he able to keep the park functioning?

We saw at the end of S3 that Charlores created a host William who slit the throat of and therefore presumably killed the real William and replaced him. 

Presumably not all the Delos files are encrypted. I'm assuming that the files that are being referred to are those of the hosts that went to the Valley Beyond (the Happy Happy Joy Joy place). It could also be the massive database that Westworld (and the related parks) has been gathering as to the guests. The regular files to run the parks would still be accessible or could be recreated. 

P.S. I don't think we know if the old park is/parks are in fact functioning at this point. There is a hint that what we are seeing with Christina may be taking place in a new park/simulation of some sort where there are the random people who are talking about how things are wild and expressing surprise that they hadn't been somewhere. But the last we really heard about Westworld proper was in S3 where it was temporarily shut down because of the massacres happening in S2. This episode establishes that at least seven years have gone by since the S3 finale (assuming we are continuing in linear time, which may not be a safe assumption).

I have forgotten who has the key to decrypt the files. I want to say Bernard?

Edited June 27, 2022 by Chicago Redshirt

[Noneofyourbusiness]

2 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

 I have forgotten who has the key to decrypt the files. I want to say Bernard?

Yes.

This was a great start to the season and I'm excited to see the rest!

[Penman61]

The most genuinely (and inadvertently) terrifying thing in this ep was the (real) water levels of Lake Mead. 

[tennisgurl]

I have always felt that the show lost steam after it left the park, even if a lot of the ideas they came up with in season three were interesting, but this set up has promise. I suspect, like others have said, that Christina could be in yet another park, especially as every time we see her she is in the same locations, even her roommate says that she hardly ever goes anywhere except for her home and work. 

When Christina passed the three young guys talking about how one of them "had to try" something, I can only guess that it was the park they were talking about. Or, if that's true, does that mean Christina isn't in a park, and is maybe in "the wild" after being reprogramed? Was the guy who attacked her a renegade host? Is she designing programs for hosts in different parks and that's why he was begging her to "stop"? 

The story that Christina was writing sounded quite familiar, didn't it? Is escaping who you were created to be really possible? I know that big parts of the story are about AI, dehumanization, and free will, but I always thought the show, especially everything set at the park, was also an interesting examination of storytelling, almost to the point of being meta fiction. The bit where Christina talks to her boss about how everyone wants stories filled with sex, violence, and high drama, sounds a bit like its a response to the show itself.

This whole episode felt a bit like a really serious version of Free Guy.

Edited June 27, 2022 by tennisgurl

[Haleth]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

The story that Christina was writing sounded quite familiar, didn't it? Is escaping who you were created to be really possible?

I was thinking about this. When Maeve was the madam she was having flashbacks to when she was a prairie mom. Maybe Christina’s stories are her memories as Dolores bleeding through. 

[BloomsburyRez]

6 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I have forgotten who has the key to decrypt the files. I want to say Bernard?

We had rewatched some episodes before the premiere and  in the season 3 finale Dolores said she didn’t trust herself with them (the French guy was trying to access them), meanwhile Bernard told Stubbs she put something in his head. But is it just the valley beyond with the hosts or is it also guest data? There were under a hundred hosts that went in and while they were important to others (Teddy, Maeve’s daughter) they weren’t unique enough to warrant that much effort. Actual human data is different especially given the wealth and prominence of most guests. 
 

I did like all of the throwbacks to the pilot, I’m trying to figure out if Dolores is in an actual place or if a pearl of her and the others are hooked up to a simulation like Maeve, Hector, and Sizemore in WarWorld. 
 

Non plot question- does it jump out at anyone else when you watch a show filmed post pandemic and the adjustments are obvious? It’s obviously necessary but season 2 of Bridgerton had very little “close contact” that season 1 was famous for and the party scenes had about twelve on a dance floor. There were also so many contrived scenes to film outdoors during group scenes such as Queen Charlotte outside Hampton Court (which was closed to the public at that time anyway so it made sense). Last night there were so few scenes inside with more then two or three people, I think the restaurant was really the only one. When Dolores was walking on the street you can see a few extras walking past wearing a mask. I completely understand the necessity and am happy that production on various projects was able to move forward but it’s just a bit jarring when trying to just have an hour of escapism. 

[thuganomics85]

At long last Westworld returns and I continue to be impressed how the top notch cast and great production values carry writing that continues to be all over the map.  I honestly don't think this show is awful or anything, but it just never quite lived up to the promise after Dolores put a bullet in Ford's head.

Definitely thinking we're getting more different "time period/locations" here and that this Christina character is in some kind of Park.  But it might be one that she unwittingly controls since that Frank guy (Aaron Stanford!) seems to blame her for ruining his life.  I guess whatever stories she creates for her job (NPCs) is actually effecting what is going on in the park/"real life?"  I'm sure more will be explained going forward.  Also guessing she'll be connected somehow to Dolores since Evan Rachel Wood is playing her.

Meanwhile, it seems like it has been seven years since the events from last season's finale, and both Maeve and Caleb are in hiding and wanted for what went down.  But now that they have been found out, they're teaming up again.  Eh, might be interesting but I'm still cautious.  Just don't really care for the Caleb character.  Partially because despite my love for him on Breaking Bad, Aaron Paul still seems off here and Thandiwe Newton is pretty much acting circles around him without even trying.

Either something is in store for this Maya character or TPTB were unaware of how much Ariana DeBose was going to blow up, because this character really seems beneath a newly crowned Oscar winner.

No sighting of either Bernard or Charlotte, but both Jeffrey Wright and Tessa Thompson are still regulars in the credits (along with Angela Sarafyan), so I'm guessing they'll factor back in soon.

"William" is up to no good, I see.  Even if his victims where Cartel members (who controlled the Hoover Dam?)

Saw the reveal coming, but still enjoyed it.  Welcome back to the game, James Marsden!

[paigow]

8 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Welcome back to the game, James Marsden!

He needs something to do before Sonic 3 starts production...

[LoveLeigh]

On 6/26/2022 at 10:28 PM, LoveLeigh said:

I didn't like it. It became a different show. I loved season 1 and the themes but this is too far removed from the original premise. 

Plus I don't even remember who many of these minor characters are so it is hard to follow. I turned it off at the halfway point. Maybe a synopsis or refresher of season 3 would help. 

I changed my mind after rewatching it a few times.... I now like it. Christina is now writing the stories in another obvious park setting. But I think she is still a host: a host in that park that thinks she is writing stories but HER story was written. I really like this... each of them are "toys" inside a very complex and layered game. 

It is almost like the lives we live... and add in dreams and reincarnation and you have Westworld. After the third viewing, I walked around for a while feeling like I was being controlled by some entity who wrote my story. 

I think Westworld is trying to tell me something. I feel freaked out. 

[LoveLeigh]

Why does Peter look like Caleb? I got them both mixed up....

[magdalene]

On 6/27/2022 at 2:21 PM, tennisgurl said:

This whole episode felt a bit like a really serious version of Free Guy.

Yes!  IMO Free Guy is much more entertaining, better written and much less pretentious.

I was happy to see Teddy but all in all this show just doesn't do it for me anymore. I hope between the writers and HBO they know and agree on an ending. A satisfying one. Because I am old enough to remember how HBO treated Rome.

[Quickbeam]

I’ve watched every episode of this show and I’m not embarrassed to say I can barely hold on to the characters, the side tangents and the through line. I love the show for the grade A talent but I’m confused about 75% of the time. And that includes this episode. 

[LoveLeigh]

2 hours ago, Quickbeam said:

I’ve watched every episode of this show and I’m not embarrassed to say I can barely hold on to the characters, the side tangents and the through line. I love the show for the grade A talent but I’m confused about 75% of the time. And that includes this episode. 

Me too because Caleb looks like Peter..... Is Peter Caleb? 

Please remind me what Thandie N's character had to do with Caleb. What was their previous relationship? How did they meet? 

Edited June 30, 2022 by LoveLeigh

[enchantingmonkey]

37 minutes ago, LoveLeigh said:

Me too because Caleb looks like Peter..... Is Peter Caleb? 

Caleb is played by Aaron Paul.  Peter is played by Aaron Stanford.

38 minutes ago, LoveLeigh said:

Please remind me what Thandie N's character had to do with Caleb. What was their previous relationship? How did they meet? 

I've been slowly rewatching Season 3, so I don't remember all of the details but I think most of their interactions were in the season finale when Maeve, Caleb and Dolores were there fighting with Serac over Rehoboam.  And if you watch Maeve's quick flashback sequence in this episode before the power goes out, it looks like some things happened with them after Rehoboam was disabled.  So they have continued to spend some time together in the Time Gap between the seasons.  

[Quilt Fairy]

18 hours ago, enchantingmonkey said:

it looks like some things happened with them after Rehoboam was disabled.

At least we don't have the listen to the name "Rehoboam" anymore. 

I don't think Peter and Caleb look anything alike.  If nothing else, Caleb is blonde and Peter has brown hair. 

Edited June 30, 2022 by Quilt Fairy

[enchantingmonkey]

16 minutes ago, Quilt Fairy said:

At least we don't have the listen to the name "Rehoboam" anymore. 

Perhaps but there's a shot of something at the end of the Title Sequence that looks like Rehoboam to me.  May be something else but I could totally see Halores fixing the thing if she thought it would aid her in her quest to crush Humanity.  

[Ottis]

On 6/26/2022 at 9:19 PM, Waldo13 said:

This is going to be a very thought provoking season

I agree with you, and I think some are missing the way this first ep is setting that up. The world has evolved since the "fate controlling" machine was destroyed. Some humans don't think the world has improved despite true free will (as far as we know, it is true), and as we see from glimpses of life, it does look like something is indeed missing. A spark, color, some of the best parts of being alive.

Meanwhile, Maeve chose to isolate and hide from the world. Dolores chose to integrate with it and try to be as human as possible. While Caleb, well, I honestly don't remember a lot about him, but he seems to believe the new world is better but also is convinced the current status quo won't last. He is in a constant state of preparedness, including teaching his daughter to shoot a la Sarah Connor preparing John.

And then there is William. It seems he was gone, for a while. But now he is back, and has a plan. And it seems to revolve around getting back into his own "Westworld," some aspect of which is locked away in servers he can't access. Does he need the original robots to access it? Dunno.

I wonder about the choices behind all of the paths these characters took. We'll probably learn more about that, and also, that their choices were in vain because here we go again. After one ep, I'm intrigued.

Full disclosure: I did not like season three much and thought the show made a mistake when it eft the parks. I hope that this set up means we are going back to the parks as we knew them or some new version of them.

[ahpny]

On 6/29/2022 at 6:59 PM, magdalene said:

Yes!  IMO Free Guy is much more entertaining, better written and much less pretentious.

Pretentiousness is the most significant flaw here. Complexity isn't coextensive with "good." While the show still wonderful to look at (even from a real estate/interior decorating perspective), there are far too many layers of contrivance and unless you study the full run, it's impossible to recall who did what and how they ended up here, a this point apparently 8 years later. And even if you did the work to do that, ultimately the plot doesn't make enough sense to warrant that effort. It's like we're almost stuck in the same type of loop as Dolores, and it's just not as much fun for any of us at this point. I know we're supposed to be interested in the "host" killer bees and the hive motif in the new intro, but there just doesn't seem to be enough of point to cogitate over that (has a synthetic "hive" mind replaced the singular Rehoboam?) for an entire season. I'm still in, but frustrated.

[aghst]

5 hours ago, Ottis said:

I agree with you, and I think some are missing the way this first ep is setting that up. The world has evolved since the "fate controlling" machine was destroyed. Some humans don't think the world has improved despite true free will (as far as we know, it is true), and as we see from glimpses of life, it does look like something is indeed missing. A spark, color, some of the best parts of being alive.

3 hours ago, ahpny said:

Pretentiousness is the most significant flaw here. Complexity isn't coextensive with "good." While the show still wonderful to look at (even from a real estate/interior decorating perspective), there are far too many layers of contrivance and unless you study the full run, it's impossible to recall who did what and how they ended up here, a this point apparently 8 years later. And even if you did the work to do that, ultimately the plot doesn't make enough sense to warrant that effort. It's like we're almost stuck in the same type of loop as Dolores, and it's just not as much fun for any of us at this point. I know we're supposed to be interested in the "host" killer bees and the hive motif in the new intro, but there just doesn't seem to be enough of point to cogitate over that (has a synthetic "hive" mind replaced the singular Rehoboam?) for an entire season. I'm still in, but frustrated.

They do a lot of world building because they like to reboot, like S4 appears to be.

Some people get off on the puzzles, easter eggs, etc.  It's something that started with Lost and some shows have tried to engage with the online community, to stir up all the sleuths and so forth.

Yes WW builds beautiful sets and places scenes in incredible settings.  It has layers of puzzles.

But does it actually do plot and character development?  Does it tell an interesting story?

WW characters have mostly failed to connect with viewers in the same way GoT characters did -- because WW was suppose to be HBO's hope for the next blockbuster series after GoT.  You have incredibly traumatic events depicted, trauma that every human should identify and emphasize with.  But the trauma happened to robots.  

Do human viewers care?

It's not that movies and shows about robots can't connect with audiences.  Blade Runner and Humans does a better job of showing the humanity of non-human characters than WW has.

The impression WW has left so far is that it offers nice visuals and chances for people to solve or figure out what happens in the narrative.  So it makes some people think.  But has it made people feel?

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, aghst said:

They do a lot of world building because they like to reboot, like S4 appears to be.

Some people get off on the puzzles, easter eggs, etc.  It's something that started with Lost and some shows have tried to engage with the online community, to stir up all the sleuths and so forth.

Yes WW builds beautiful sets and places scenes in incredible settings.  It has layers of puzzles.

But does it actually do plot and character development?  Does it tell an interesting story?

WW characters have mostly failed to connect with viewers in the same way GoT characters did -- because WW was suppose to be HBO's hope for the next blockbuster series after GoT.  You have incredibly traumatic events depicted, trauma that every human should identify and emphasize with.  But the trauma happened to robots.  

Do human viewers care?

It's not that movies and shows about robots can't connect with audiences.  Blade Runner and Humans does a better job of showing the humanity of non-human characters than WW has.

The impression WW has left so far is that it offers nice visuals and chances for people to solve or figure out what happens in the narrative.  So it makes some people think.  But has it made people feel?

People's mileage will vary, but I personally have/have had sympathy for a lot of the robots (not all) and for very few of the actual humans.

I care/cared about Maeve, Bernard, Teddy, OG Delores, Charlores, Hector and Clementine (among possible others). I didn't/don't care so much about Delores 2.0+ (i.e. most of the incarnations from roughly after she went on her anti-human rampage), Stubbs, a lot of the bit player hosts.

The only human characters I have cared about were Ford, Sizemore and the tech woman from S1, and I guess pre-corruption William. 

It may be by design that the robots are more sympathetic than the humans.

[Ottis]

5 hours ago, aghst said:

But does it actually do plot and character development?  Does it tell an interesting story?

The first season of Westworld did a great job of telling an interesting story (albeit not an original theme in sci-fi). Second season was pretty good. Third season lost its way, IMO. That said, this new season has potential. Some time has passed, our robots have chosen different paths in the human world, and we don't know why. And now the past has caught up to them, and we don't know why. 

5 hours ago, aghst said:

You have incredibly traumatic events depicted, trauma that every human should identify and emphasize with.  But the trauma happened to robots.  

Do human viewers care?

Heck yeah, this human does. The dawning of sentience, the desire to have a say in one's own "life" and creating one's future, and the fight to be able to have that say was involving. The fact the show set up different schools of thought within the robot community around what to do with free will (for lack of a better term) made it even more interesting. Then you have the various views of different humans toward robots and the role of robots in society.

Where season 3 went wrong, IMO, was it veered toward too much violence for the sake of violence. And it left the parks and became a thriller, with a bit too much action vs. philosophy for me. The one aspect that it introduced that I liked was that we learned humans actually had been given defined paths, too - by a machine. So really, how different were the robots and the humans?

I don't care much about killer bees. I'm more interested in everyone's motivations and goals. I just hope the show focuses on that and doesn't slowly meander while we try to guess what is significant.

5 hours ago, aghst said:

WW characters have mostly failed to connect with viewers in the same way GoT characters did

GoT had the advantage of multiple well-written books that laid out complex connections and characters. Once the show passed the books, it became noticeably worse, IMO. And then there was the atrocious ending.

Edited July 1, 2022 by Ottis

[Zaffy]

Ok, season 1 was interesting...but still I found this show to be pretentious and talking itself way too seriously.
Season 2 was a mess, as it was season 3 (but ERW was wearing some amazing clothes). Also most of the times I do not understand wth is going on and if you ask me an episode that I really liked I would only pick up the one with the Native Americans. That was amazing TV.
So, why on earth I keep watching this show? 
I think it is because of the cast, especially Evan Rachel Wood and Thandiwe Newton. 
Anyway, S4 premier was intriguing enough for me to keep watching and I also agree with some of you that Charlores seems to live in a park.

[Nashville]

Dolores’s re-creation into this new character role with little or no tie back to previous seasons is coming off a little too American Horror Story-ish for me.

Or maybe I’m Just. That. Bored.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

On 7/1/2022 at 9:47 AM, ahpny said:

I know we're supposed to be interested in the "host" killer bees and the hive motif in the new intro, but there just doesn't seem to be enough of point to cogitate over that (has a synthetic "hive" mind replaced the singular Rehoboam?) for an entire season. I'm still in, but frustrated.

They're flies, not bees, and they're working for Halores, who has no connection to Rehoboam.

[Joimiaroxeu]

I was half expecting it to be a horse's severed head or something with all those flies swarming. Ugh

Glad to see Manny Montana again (Carver) after that Good Girls debacle.

Good old Westworld. Back to befuddle me again.

[Dobian]

On 7/1/2022 at 10:27 AM, aghst said:

WW characters have mostly failed to connect with viewers in the same way GoT characters did -- because WW was suppose to be HBO's hope for the next blockbuster series after GoT.  You have incredibly traumatic events depicted, trauma that every human should identify and emphasize with.  But the trauma happened to robots. 

Compounding that in season 3 was Dolores putting copies of herself in different bodies.  So you would see Charlotte and other characters and not really relate to them because, "that's just Dolores."

Season 1 was the closest they came to building an emotional connection between viewers and the hosts, like with Dolores and Maeve.  But they lost that in the following seasons with the writing.