S01.E01: I / S01.E02: II

[Medicine Crow]

Women get pissed when their ex shorts them on alimony & it impacts their kid(s).  Just sayin'.

[dubbel zout]

On 6/18/2022 at 9:06 PM, Rickster said:

I thought her license was just included as part of the info package that came across with the photo, since she was the driver at the stop (although I thought gathering all this a bit far fetched).

It was dumb luck (ahem) that Zoe's traffic stop was included in the info pack. At least the pile of folders of raw data was slightly realistic.

4 hours ago, bigmag said:

And LEARN TO BALANCE YOUR DAMN CHECKBOOK!!!

The check bounced because Zoe's ex occasionally shorts her on alimony, which is a completely dick move. It's hard to plan your expenses if you can't count on a regular amount of money coming in.

13 minutes ago, Rickster said:

I could be mistaken, but I thought when Bridges was calling to set up the rental, he was talking to a man, who said “It’ll be good to put a face to the name “, like Bridges had this all set up for a while. Or is Zoe’s just a stop on the way to another destination?

Zoe's husband still owns the property, IIRC, so Chase may have been talking to him. It's weird the guy didn't mention there would be someone else there, though. But this show seems to want to traffic in weird. I wish the backstory wasn't being dribbled out so slowly. Too many shows use that trope and I find it annoying rather that suspenseful or anticipatory.

Still, the acting is so good I'll probably do a lot of hand waving and just enjoy the actors.

[LoveLeigh]

I cannot understand Ray Waters. The actor garbles his words. I had to listen to that scene 4 times to understand his remarks. 

[blixie]

Quote

It's weird, Chase was thinking he'd kill both cops at the traffic stop and then shoot her if she was questioning him.  But instead, he drives them home and they sleep together.

I think they've established quite clearly that Johnny/Dan are chaotic, Mote said he does what the fuck he wants and worries about the mess later. 

 

Quote

I guess it's conceivable that Hamzad became a US ally and now he's demanding an American citizen be delivered to him by the CIA? 

Yeah I am very curious what the timeline and allegiances of Hamzad are, and why Johnny went from willing to kill whole villages of people for him and his cause to stealing his wife (Or daughter?) and going into  hiding for 30 years. My guess is he sold out whatever Johnny thought he was about by becoming friendly with the CIA and doing their bidding instead of keeping it REAL. Harold either left out of fear he'd be drummed out or he agreed with Johnny that being a spook was worse than being a "cop". 

I think Harold is fascinating and I don't really think he does want Dan dead. It should have been his first instinct, but it was seemingly the last thing he wanted to do, I think equal parts because it's his frienemy and because he's just as sure as that Johnny can't be taken down even by younger techy assassins.

Also can't believe no one has mentioned how Dan is basically geriatric John Wick, they even both have folk stories of their lethalness Baba Yaga v baba khokohne. Cmon!

I'm  generally loving the show, and I like Zoe and I cried when he made her scrambled eggs. 

I'd love to know how someone found out 

Spoiler

Shawkat is the voice of Emily I was LOOKIN for the actress and saw NOTHING, since I thought her voice was familiar and  yet when Agent Adams showed up not only did I not recognize her voice as Emily I didn't even recognize her as Alia Shawkat for 20 minutes. 

Yes it is I, The Old Woman. 

Edited June 21, 2022 by blixie

[aghst]

Who knew making scrambled eggs led to sex rather than the other way around?

[Razzberry]

Is Waters talking about Chase or Angela's boss Harper?

[Rickster]

1 hour ago, Razzberry said:

Is Waters talking about Chase or Angela's boss Harper?

Pretty sure he meant Chase.

[isalicat]

Ah, so the opening scene was Johnny/Chase and his wife as they were 30 years previously? Someone in the thread clued me in inadvertently. So "kiddo" is most likely the daughter in some way shape or form? Who now "works" for Harper? Yah...I'm going to need a user's manual for this show.

[Medicine Crow]

39 minutes ago, isalicat said:

Ah, so the opening scene was Johnny/Chase and his wife as they were 30 years previously? Someone in the thread clued me in inadvertently. So "kiddo" is most likely the daughter in some way shape or form? Who now "works" for Harper? Yah...I'm going to need a user's manual for this show.

Trust me, you're not the only one!!  LOL.

[LoveLeigh]

I think Dan is talking to his dead daughter inside his own head. He is losing it... they give clues along the way: the microwave going on fire, the pill he takes, and his wife having cognitive issues. 

Edited June 21, 2022 by LoveLeigh

[isalicat]

15 minutes ago, LoveLeigh said:

I think Dan is talking to his dead daughter inside his own head. He is losing it... they give clues along the way: the microwave going on fire, the pill he takes, and his wife having cognitive issues. 

This is a reasonable hypothesis, but I keep fixating on that he calls his daughter "kiddo" and Harper calls Angela "kiddo". This has to mean something in Le Carre world, if we are in that sort of world here, which I think we are.

[Bannon]

10 hours ago, aghst said:

Who knew making scrambled eggs led to sex rather than the other way around?

Oh, cooking a delicious meal for someone, especially as they watch, is an extremely powerful aphrodisiac....

The action scenes were extremely well shot, and it is greatly appreciated; watching poorly executed action sequences really takes me out of the world being portrayed. No, I don't believe a 65-70 year old man could fare that well against 30-35 year old highly trained professionally violent person, but the sequence was so well executed that I just flowed with it.

Acting was terrific, as expected

[ferjy]

On 6/17/2022 at 2:36 AM, Lily H said:

I watched the first episode but decided to skip the rest after I realized I felt so stressed and uncomfortable because I kept expecting the dogs to be killed at any moment, like I was sitting there watching it with a big anvil over my head.

Afraid for those dogs? I was stressed waiting to see who they’d eat next!  😄

[blixie]

Quote

but I keep fixating on that he calls his daughter "kiddo" and Harper calls Angela "kiddo". This has to mean something in Le Carre world, if we are in that sort of world here, which I think we are.

Yeah I think the "daughter is figment" is well a red herring. The doctor explicitly said that he has no cognitive disfunction on his tests, and it appears he is texting with Emily, I don't think he's texting himself. When Agent Adams said the daughter is dead I knew for sure she must be alive and that was his way to protect her, to fake the death of that identity, and yeah possibly to have situated herself to spy on the spies and specifically Harper. 

[LoveLeigh]

7 hours ago, isalicat said:

This is a reasonable hypothesis, but I keep fixating on that he calls his daughter "kiddo" and Harper calls Angela "kiddo". This has to mean something in Le Carre world, if we are in that sort of world here, which I think we are.

If Angela is Dan's daughter... why would Harper have told Angela to find Dan's daughter, which he did in episode 2. And she tells him in a private conversation that Emily is dead. If Angela was Dan's daughter that whole conversation would not even happen because Harper and Angela would know the suicide was faked. Am I confused about that? 

[HerkyJerky]

9 minutes ago, LoveLeigh said:

If Angela was Dan's daughter that whole conversation would not even happen because Harper and Angela would know the suicide was faked.

What if Harper didn't know that Angela was Dan's daughter?

[Rickster]

22 minutes ago, HerkyJerky said:

What if Harper didn't know that Angela was Dan's daughter?

Right. That would be the whole point of the plot twist.

However, my understanding is that even FBI analysts undergo a pretty in depth vetting and investigation into their pasts before they are hired. Plus the sheer coincidence of her working on her father’s case. I’d be disappointed if this turns out to be true.

ETA: I suppose yet another LeCarre -ish twist could be that Harper knows Angela is Dan’s daughter, but she doesn’t know that he knows.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Rickster

[blixie]

Quote

ish twist could be that Harper knows Angela is Dan’s daughter, but she doesn’t know that he knows.

I am thinking yes, because how did he even know that he HAD a daughter? He gave a fairly weak explanation as to how he knew? So yes I think if he knows there IS a daughter he knows who the daughter is, it also makes sense as to why his first phone conversation was about threatening her, because he is close enough to do so. I am also wondering if Emily is even his bio daughter? It could explain why Hazmad was over it for 30 years but only recently learned that Dan didn't just steal his wife but a child. Also obvs Harper wouldn't want Emily/Dan to know he knows. Is this LeCarre or Friends?

[Dowel Jones]

Or, to swing for the fence, how about the entire FBI office there is a construct of Dan's imagination, and we are looking in on the workings of his mind as he runs across the country.

[dubbel zout]

2 hours ago, HerkyJerky said:

What if Harper didn't know that Angela was Dan's daughter?

Then the FBI does a terrible job at background checks on employees. Still, plot point.

[UsernameFatigue]

20 hours ago, Rickster said:

I could be mistaken, but I thought when Bridges was calling to set up the rental, he was talking to a man, who said “It’ll be good to put a face to the name “, like Bridges had this all set up for a while. Or is Zoe’s just a stop on the way to another destination?

It does seem like this is a different place that the one Dan was referring to on the phone. Besides the man telling Dan it will be good to put a name to the face, Dan said that there was a list there of things to bring in for him, ie. almond milk, so it seems like he has stayed there at least a few times previously. Also Zoe's place does not allow dogs, and I doubt Dan would have been staying regularly at some place that did not allow dogs. 

15 hours ago, aghst said:

Who knew making scrambled eggs led to sex rather than the other way around?

Weren't the scrambled eggs the morning after? It looked like Dan was getting ready to leave and heard a noise in Zoey's house. When he went to check he found her upset about her son, and set about making the scrambled eggs as she had told him at dinner the night before that her mom used to make her scrambled eggs when she was upset. 

[LoveLeigh]

4 hours ago, HerkyJerky said:

What if Harper didn't know that Angela was Dan's daughter?

Then if he did not know, there would be no connection in him also calling her "kiddo." Also I don't think Dan's daughter would work there and be that close to any danger.  Also another clue that Dan is losing it is the imaginary murder scene at the road stop. He has a lot of imaginary things going on inside his head including his conversations with his dead daughter. 

Edited June 21, 2022 by LoveLeigh

[Razzberry]

I half-expect to hear Rod Serling's voice saying "Dan Chase doesn't know it yet but he's just entered the Twilight Zone".

The doctor switch must have meaning, right?  The new doctor isn't familiar with Dan and seems a little dismissive or distracted.  I disagree with his diagnosis of no cognitive impairment.  

[LoveLeigh]

Maybe Angela IS Emily and she told Dan that Emily was dead so he stopped looking. At this point, there could be many scenarios.

Edited June 21, 2022 by LoveLeigh

[formerlyfreedom]

Hey, all - there is a speculation topic now, so if you want to do some deep theorizing about who is who and who is real and not and dead and what not, please head over there! Thanks!

[SlovakPrincess]

21 hours ago, LoveLeigh said:

I think Dan is talking to his dead daughter inside his own head. He is losing it... they give clues along the way: the microwave going on fire, the pill he takes, and his wife having cognitive issues. 

Is he using cheap crappy cell phones to call his daughter and then nuking them afterwards to prevent a trace of the signal?

I have no idea if that is actually a thing, I'm not technologically savvy, but he seemed very deliberate about microwaving his phone.  It seemed like a TV spy kinda thing to do, as well.  

[Lamima]

On 6/18/2022 at 11:03 AM, Razzberry said:

The show grabbed my attention from the get go.   I noticed that Chase affectionately calls his daughter "kiddo".  Harper calls his young associate, who also worries about him,  "kiddo".  Probably means nothing but I'm terrible at guessing these black ops/spygames.  

Maybe I'm just getting old myself but Bridges at 72 is still looking fine.  😉

Could the young associate be Chase's daughter?

[dubbel zout]

If she is, why is she helping track John Lithgow track her father down and possibly getting him killed? Unless she doesn't know it's her father, which would enrage me.

This is why I hate shows that dribble out information. Just tell a good story in a linear fashion. I don't think a political thriller (for lack of a better description) needs so much trickiness in how it's told. If that makes me an old fogey, so be it.

Or do you mean she's John Lithgow's daughter? 

[aghst]

Only way Chase would know about Harper calling the agent kiddo is if he was in contact with Harper much more recently.

Or been to his office where Harper called the agent kiddo.

But when Harper called to warn him, they apparently hadn't spoken in 30 years or whenever they had their adventure in Afghanistan.

So it's either a continuity error or just pure coincidence?

[roughing it]

Had to rewatch both episodes last night.  At the beginning, did I see Dan put a big old slab of butter in his coffee????  Is that a thing?

[SuzWhat]

This show is based on the book by the same name by Thomas Perry.  They show has deviated from the book already somewhat but I don't mind.  The book is one of my all time favorites.  Perry is a fantastic writer.  I've read the book over and over and have listed to the audible version several times too.  The main divergence so far is the main character as Dan Chase or his other names does not kill unless defending himself.  But I find the show very entertaining.  

Edited June 22, 2022 by SuzWhat

[dubbel zout]

36 minutes ago, roughing it said:

At the beginning, did I see Dan put a big old slab of butter in his coffee????  Is that a thing?

Yes, it's a part of bulletproof coffee. It was kind of a fad about 10 years ago, I think.

[Razzberry]

I can't understand why he requested "almond milk, no dairy" to the Safehouse Rental guy after drinking a mug of melted butter.  More evidence of dementia or are they just messing with us?  

[Rickster]

21 minutes ago, Razzberry said:

I can't understand why he requested "almond milk, no dairy" to the Safehouse Rental guy after drinking a mug of melted butter.  More evidence of dementia or are they just messing with us?  

Lactose intolerance?

Speaking as a lactose intolerant person, I can eat all the butter I want, but can’t drink milk or cream without a pill. Not sure that’s true for everyone.

[SunnyBeBe]

I was surprised at the two explanations that Dan gave Zoey for his injuries and his decision to stay there.  He said some teens hit his car and he had sold his house.  There would be public records for those things.  Not likely that a regular person would go to the trouble to check, but in his situation I would think he would be more careful of getting caught in a lie, as it only makes people dig deeper.  
 

Also, it looks like Dan does prepare eggs on toast as he attempts to convince Zoey to allow the dogs to stay and he waits on the tow truck. 

Edited June 22, 2022 by SunnyBeBe

[ferjy]

16 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Yes, it's a part of bulletproof coffee. It was kind of a fad about 10 years ago, I think.

“satiated and energized for hours”... more like wired, lol. It’s really strong coffee. It’s still a fad now. Part of the Keto Diet. High fat, very low carb.

[aghst]

The Ringer Prestige podcast discussed these two episodes.

Bill Simmons said maybe they're really using the unreliable narrator, so that first fight may be something Chase imagined.

Just like he imagined the traffic stop where he quickly kills the two cops like he's Jason Bourne.  But he didn't even have to kill them as it turns out.

[Auntie Anxiety]

On 6/20/2022 at 3:45 PM, dubbel zout said:

Zoe's husband still owns the property, IIRC, so Chase may have been talking to him. It's weird the guy didn't mention there would be someone else there, though.

If it were an AirBnB listing, I doubt that Chase would have spoken to anyone.

On 6/20/2022 at 3:29 PM, Rickster said:

Or is Zoe’s just a stop on the way to another destination?

I believe it is. Yes.

On 6/20/2022 at 8:05 PM, LoveLeigh said:

I cannot understand Ray Waters. The actor garbles his words.

Closed captioning. Don’t watch tv without it.

[Razzberry]

3 hours ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

If it were an AirBnB listing, I doubt that Chase would have spoken to anyone.

I can just picture a review on AirBnB:

Great location in large guest house that looks like a flipped firehouse.  Easy check-in (key under the mat).  However,  Superhost Zoe was Super over-friendly and claimed cooking her meals was a requirement which the ad should have made clear.  It did not.  Moreover, we were immediately drawn into some financial drama with her ex-husband that made us uncomfortable.  If you're looking for privacy and relaxation, look elsewhere.

[aghst]

No evidence that Chase would use Airbnb or any other app.

[Affogato]

On 6/23/2022 at 2:52 PM, Razzberry said:

I can just picture a review on AirBnB:

Great location in large guest house that looks like a flipped firehouse.  Easy check-in (key under the mat).  However,  Superhost Zoe was Super over-friendly and claimed cooking her meals was a requirement which the ad should have made clear.  It did not.  Moreover, we were immediately drawn into some financial drama with her ex-husband that made us uncomfortable.  If you're looking for privacy and relaxation, look elsewhere.

I’m guessing the almond milk place is a different place. He probably set up more than one bolt hole.

On 6/21/2022 at 1:44 PM, Razzberry said:

I half-expect to hear Rod Serling's voice saying "Dan Chase doesn't know it yet but he's just entered the Twilight Zone".

The doctor switch must have meaning, right?  The new doctor isn't familiar with Dan and seems a little dismissive or distracted.  I disagree with his diagnosis of no cognitive impairment.  

Chase was getting the results of tests done by the other doctor, I think, so the one who didn't know him wasn't giving the tests.

Edited June 25, 2022 by Affogato

[Razzberry]

2 hours ago, Affogato said:

Chase was getting the results of tests done by the other doctor, I think, so the one who didn't know him wasn't giving the tests.

Yes, but Unexpected Doctor Switch is almost always a bad sign.  Could also be a red herring though.

[Affogato]

1 hour ago, Razzberry said:

Yes, but Unexpected Doctor Switch is almost always a bad sign.  Could also be a red herring though.

I think the Chekov there is the before, when his impaired wife is saying she is afraid she will betray him and then pulls away and asks who she is. “I know who you are but who am I.” Did she betray him?
 

He wants to be checked out because he doesn’t want to lose it and betray Emily. 

Edited June 25, 2022 by Affogato

[Ottis]

On 6/18/2022 at 10:29 AM, Rickster said:

The idea that the daughter actually IS dead might explain why I thought the dialogue was strangely written. 

I kept wondering what sort of phone that super-secret, in-hiding spy guy was using to call and text his daughter so much. Seemed like that would be a bad idea. Unless she is in fact dead and something weird is going on in his mind, so the phone poses no risk. More mundanely, she does exist and Dan faked her death and hid her, but that still leaves open why does he use what looks like a normal, albeit old, cellphone to talk to her, while in deep hiding.

I'm not sure what it means that the only "WTF!" moment of the two episodes that made me think, "wow, this show is going to be interesting," didn't actually happen. I get that it ties to Harold's comment to the hired killer later that there is nothing Dan won't do to continue his existence, but also, I would be far more interested in this show if that scene had actually happened. I was sure he was going to say those weren't cops, and then have to try to calm Zoe, and then he shot her! 

The Harold parts intrigue me. The Dan parts don't, so far. Dan does a lot of moaning and groaning because he is old, and then flirts with the landlady, and then has visions of his crazy, dead wife. Not very compelling. The *story* of Dan and Harold together is more compelling, so far, as well as how the spy machinery works when this kind of issue comes up. 

For what it's worth, they even feature the dogs in the ads and the still shots promoting the show. I don't think they will be hurt, though they may be placed in danger to make us think so.

On 6/20/2022 at 12:06 PM, aghst said:

Why would he have to kill her?  Just say I'm on the run, sorry didn't mean to get you involved and just take off?

She gave the answer in the scene - "I see you." He is running from the machinery of the US government. He can't leave any witnesses behind. Though between that scene, his maybe dead daughter and ghost calls and his visions of his wife, I'm wondering how reliable a narrator he is.

Good to see Maebe Funke again. She's doing a nice job in this role.

On 6/20/2022 at 10:14 AM, bigmag said:

And LEARN TO BALANCE YOUR DAMN CHECKBOOK!!! Quit complaing about the life direction you clearly contributed to. Waw waw waw. 

LOL. ITA. You know your husband shorts your check, and yet you operate within $41 of disaster? 

Edited June 25, 2022 by Ottis

[smartymarty]

How was "young Dan" going to carry the bunches of rifles he was expecting on his horse?

Why didn't Dan call his dogs in earlier in the fight? (At least as soon as the gun, that could have killed the dogs, was out of play.)

Why didn't Dan just say to the cops "since she was driving and paying, I didn't bother carrying my wallet?"

Was glad that they showed Dan's big bruise. Most shows act as though people can walk away from a brutal fight like that.

Otherwise, I'm still in this to see where it goes.

[Affogato]

On 6/25/2022 at 6:41 PM, Ottis said:

I kept wondering what sort of phone that super-secret, in-hiding spy guy was using to call and text his daughter so much. Seemed like that would be a bad idea. Unless she is in fact dead and something weird is going on in his mind, so the phone poses no risk. More mundanely, she does exist and Dan faked her death and hid her, but that still leaves open why does he use what looks like a normal, albeit old, cellphone to talk to her, while in deep hiding.

I'm not sure what it means that the only "WTF!" moment of the two episodes that made me think, "wow, this show is going to be interesting," didn't actually happen. I get that it ties to Harold's comment to the hired killer later that there is nothing Dan won't do to continue his existence, but also, I would be far more interested in this show if that scene had actually happened. I was sure he was going to say those weren't cops, and then have to try to calm Zoe, and then he shot her! 

The Harold parts intrigue me. The Dan parts don't, so far. Dan does a lot of moaning and groaning because he is old, and then flirts with the landlady, and then has visions of his crazy, dead wife. Not very compelling. The *story* of Dan and Harold together is more compelling, so far, as well as how the spy machinery works when this kind of issue comes up. 

For what it's worth, they even feature the dogs in the ads and the still shots promoting the show. I don't think they will be hurt, though they may be placed in danger to make us think so.

She gave the answer in the scene - "I see you." He is running from the machinery of the US government. He can't leave any witnesses behind. Though between that scene, his maybe dead daughter and ghost calls and his visions of his wife, I'm wondering how reliable a narrator he is.

Good to see Maebe Funke again. She's doing a nice job in this role.

LOL. ITA. You know your husband shorts your check, and yet you operate within $41 of disaster? 

Banks also usually cover overdrafts. 

[voiceover]

On 6/20/2022 at 6:28 PM, aghst said:

Who knew making scrambled eggs led to sex rather than the other way around?

ErUmUnhUhhhh…I’d like to feebly note here that once you’re past A Certain Age, scrambled eggs are basically a booty call.

[nichelle]

Before yesterday I had never heard of this show. It popped into my Hulu suggestions. Jeff Bridges *AND* John Lithgow? Hell yes! 

I don't have anything to add to the conversation on the plot twists and turns. But I am busy enjoying actors amazingly execute their craft. It feels so great to see them in this series, (Amy Brenneman as well). They are just so damn good. I'm in for this ride, no matter what.

[BeckyThatcher]

Could Zoe’s financial reveal just be a set up to see how much money Dan is quickly willing to give. She doesn’t take the money but is she testing the waters and setting  trap?

I just don’t believe her reactions. Or maybe if she’s not some secret agent or scam artist, she just a writer’s contrived plot device of lonely woman who rents for $, companionship, and eggs.

Great cast; just somethings seem contrived.

[mostlylurking]

Sorry for the previous comment, I could figure out how to delete that spoiler thing.  This is not a spoiler since it’s just a guess but I’ll put it in the box anyway:

Spoiler

At first I thought the young FBI agent was John Lithgow’s daughter (can’t remember all the character names yet). Now I’m thinking maybe she’s Dan’s daughter just under an assumed identity?