S06.E05: Black and Blue

[nodorothyparker]

Airdate 05.09.22

Quote

While business booms for Jimmy, the vise tightens on the cat-and-mouse game between Gus and Lalo.

 

[nodorothyparker]

Social media teaser:

 

[Gobi]

The name tag is in German. Hmm…

[peeayebee]

I wonder who "B" is.

[Razzberry]

Will this be the halfway point in a 10 episode season?

[nodorothyparker]

54 minutes ago, Razzberry said:

Will this be the halfway point in a 10 episode season?

No. This is episode 5 of 7 of the first half. It comes back for a final 6 episodes on July 11.

[SunnyBeBe]

Black and Blue…..I get it.  Lol. 
 

[BC4ME]

I just don't know how I'm expected to feel about that fight scene. It was set up like Howard was far superior. But then Jimmy, although in a much less sophisticated style, got in a few good licks Howard should've been able to avoid. Then suddenly Howard is appearing to be far superior again. I'm not used to being this confused over the writers' intention. Can anybody help explain it to me?

[SailorGirl]

How the hell did Lalo have any idea about the Germans and the superlab??? 

[SunnyBeBe]

8 minutes ago, SailorGirl said:

How the hell did Lalo have any idea about the Germans and the superlab??? 

And wouldn’t the woman’s  husband have known not to leave anything incriminating behind in the event of his death? 
 

I thought Jimmy would say that Howard assaulted him.  Just leave out the part about boxing.  

Does Gus know what’s going on across the street from his house?  

 

[Spartan Girl]

I was terrified for Little Bear and his owner. What an adorable dog. I guess even Lalo has standards when it comes to killing.

Never thought I’d see Gus so jumpy and paranoid. He’s usually the king of composure.

[Constantinople]

26 minutes ago, SailorGirl said:

How the hell did Lalo have any idea about the Germans and the superlab??? 

Lalo knows that Werner was building something for Gus because Werner told Lalo when they spoke over the phone in the S4 finale. Gus confirmed this in the S5 premiere but claimed it had something to do with chicken. I forget what the explanation Gus gave for getting rid of Werner. Lalo was suspicious of Gus' story, but could not prove anything at the time ("there's proving and then there's knowing")

How Lalo tracked down Margarethe, I don't know. They've mentioned before there are about 3 billion Werner Zieglers in Germany.

 

Edited May 10, 2022 by Constantinople

[Starchild]

20 minutes ago, SailorGirl said:

How the hell did Lalo have any idea about the Germans and the superlab??? 

Apparently when Ziegler did his little breakout (the one that forced Mike to kill him), he ran into Lalo and talked a little about it. Enough I guess, for someone as smart as Lalo.

27 minutes ago, BC4ME said:

I just don't know how I'm expected to feel about that fight scene. It was set up like Howard was far superior. But then Jimmy, although in a much less sophisticated style, got in a few good licks Howard should've been able to avoid. Then suddenly Howard is appearing to be far superior again. I'm not used to being this confused over the writers' intention. Can anybody help explain it to me?

Howard tried to address the whole thing head on, man to man, but Jimmy continued to be evasive. 

Poor Howard, he thinks Jimmy is the one targeting, has no idea it's Kim (arguably worse) who's got him in her sights.

[Constantinople]

5 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

I was terrified for Little Bear and his owner. What an adorable dog. I guess even Lalo has standards when it comes to killing.

I think Lalo's only standard is not wanting to call attention to himself from the authorities if he doesn't have to.

[SailorGirl]

9 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

Lalo knows that Werner was building something for Gus because Werner told him when they spoke over the phone in the S4 finale. Gus confirmed this in the S5 premiere but claimed it had something to do with chicken. I forget what the explanation Gus gave for getting rid of Werner. Lalo was suspicious of Gus' story, but could not prove anything at the time ("there's proving and then there's knowing")

How Lalo tracked down Margarethe, I don't know. They've mentioned before there are about 3 billion Werner Zieglers in Germany.

 

Ahhh . . . thank you!! 

I know we were discussing last week which of the BB characters could be Cliff Main's son. I'm leaning toward Skinny Pete as the tie-in, because he knew how to play classical piano very well. Typically, someone who is raised with piano lessons that lead to the talent Skinny Pete has come from money. Now I need to go back and watch BB and find all the Skinny Pete scenes for Easter Eggs. I feel like there were a few hints that Skinny Pete came from money/upper-middle-class family, but I might be projecting. Plus, the age would track because, if I recall, Skinny Pete is older than Jessie Pinkman. He and Tuco did time together, which would have been when Pinkman was still in high school. 

Clearly, Kim and Jimmy have a bigger play going on with Howard, which makes sense because it was all pretty easy to track it to Jimmy. Wonder what the real play is!! 

Sort of related side note: I found out after the fact that Bryan Cranston and Aaron Paul were promoting their Dos Hombres Mezcal at my local liquor store! I was so bummed that I didn't know until afterward! Apparently there were close to 1,000 people lined up!! 

Edited May 10, 2022 by SailorGirl

[SimplexFish]

That episode was a disappointment.... 

[SimplexFish]

22 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Does Gus know what’s going on across the street from his house?  

Naaaww...LOL

22 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

 

 

[Chaos Theory]

“Don’t mistake my kindness for weakness.”  The boxing match between Howard and Jimmy shouldn’t have been as funny as it was.   By the way how many people are following Jimmy and Kim at this point?  

Oh and Kim has really gotten into the “Saul Goodman” gimmick. 

Was that the meth making lab that Gus went down to that he will eventually give to Walt and Jessie to work in?

 

Edited May 10, 2022 by Chaos Theory

[SailorGirl]

7 minutes ago, SimplexFish said:

That episode was a disappointment.... 

True to form though, the episodes where nothing much seems to happen later prove to have been providing the groundwork or dropping easter eggs for major stuff that's going to happen.  Kim inviting Lane Kim (she will always be Lane Kim) to fish for what is happening in the case is likely going to pay off too. 

Edited May 10, 2022 by SailorGirl

[One Imaginary Girl]

15 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

I was terrified for Little Bear and his owner. 

I wonder if in fact the woman who knows about Valentina Tereshkova is smart enough to catch on to a stranger who shows a lot of interest in her late husband.

[Sharper2002]

10 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

How Lalo tracked down Margarethe, I don't know. They've mentioned before there are about 3 billion Werner Zieglers in Germany

I think in one episode, Lalo said there were 27 Werner Zieglers in Germany. I think he’d been looking into it for some time after Werner accidentally started spilling the beans to him. 

I’m curious if Howard played right into Kim and Jimmy’s game. Kim mentioned something happening next doesn’t bode well for Howard.

Also, we are seeing the beginning of Francesca’s disillusionment with Saul. 

I have so many questions about Gus and his living arrangements now. I didn’t even realize he had the body double in last week’s episode, so I guess they cover for him at his “official” home while he’s across the street? And he still cleans the grout with a toothbrush and it’s not even his house? 🤔

[nodorothyparker]

So Jimmy now has two separate tails following him?

The boxing match was weirdly funny if kind of an underwhelming response for what Howard thinks is going on. But a lot about this episode was kind of underwhelming. The long opening frankly felt completely self indulgent without really advancing anything for the amount of time left on the clock for the series.

[PeterPirate]

A slow one, to be sure.

I wonder if this was the episode where Bob Odenkirk had his heart attack.  

My guess is Lalo found the right Mrs. Ziegler by reading the obituaries.  But what prueba could he have been looking for in her home?  

And what was with Gus going down into the drug lab?  

[WritinMan]

The boxing match was funny. I thought Howard was going to be really good, but they both suck.

[SimplexFish]

17 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

 

Was that the meth making lab that Gus went down to that he will eventually give to Walt and Jessie to work in?

 

Yes

[Irlandesa]

I don't know what kind of predictive value the boxing match had.  None?  Or will it be a back and forth when it seems like one has the upper hand, the other comes through? 

It's clear they both were hesitant to engage but once each landed a punch, they got more vicious.  I don't think they were bad.  They weren't professional but they're two middle-aged lawyers without professional boxing experience. 

Howard's focus on Jimmy does make me nervous because I do think the approach is probably somewhat right if it's just Jimmy.  Jimmy's motives are about on that level.  It's Kim whose animus goes deeper. I had a hard time believing Cliff was so surprised by Howard mentioning he has a Jimmy problem.  Are we supposed to believe Cliff, who perceptively knew what Jimmy was doing when working for him, is going to be so baffled by the fact that he could be behind this?

Edited May 11, 2022 by Irlandesa

[dwmarch]

53 minutes ago, BC4ME said:

I just don't know how I'm expected to feel about that fight scene. It was set up like Howard was far superior. But then Jimmy, although in a much less sophisticated style, got in a few good licks Howard should've been able to avoid. Then suddenly Howard is appearing to be far superior again. I'm not used to being this confused over the writers' intention. Can anybody help explain it to me?

Howard was letting Jimmy get a couple of shots in so that he'd get his aggression out. Good effort here. It allows Jimmy to do something he couldn't otherwise do which is punch Howard in the face. But Howard said despite his best efforts he didn't think Jimmy would let it go and Jimmy confirmed as much to Kim later.

14 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

So Jimmy now has two separate tails following him?

Yes, Howard's PI and Mike's protection from Lalo squad. Judging by how closely Mike's men scrutinize everyone who comes anywhere near Gus, I think this PI is going to be in trouble very soon.

5 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

And what was with Gus going down into the drug lab?  

I think he took the gun out of his leg holster and stashed it down there. I have a feeling he's trying to set a trap for Lalo. Maybe he was inspired by Nacho.

[Irlandesa]

22 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

I wonder if this was the episode where Bob Odenkirk had his heart attack. 

I believe I read last week's episode was filmed about a month before Bob's heart attack.  I'm thinking it would have happened during filming of the 6th, 7th or 8th episode.

[Dev F]

41 minutes ago, SailorGirl said:

I know we were discussing last week which of the BB characters could be Cliff Main's son. I'm leaning toward Skinny Pete as the tie-in, because he knew how to play classical piano very well.

Skinny Pete's father is "a contractor or something." Skinny mentions it when he offers to hook Jesse up with home repairs.

So, yes, he comes from money, but it's not "dad's a lawyer" money.

[peeayebee]

31 minutes ago, SailorGirl said:

I know we were discussing last week which of the BB characters could be Cliff Main's son. I'm leaning toward Skinny Pete as the tie-in, because he knew how to play classical piano very well.

I suppose it's possible we'll see Cliff's son, but I think the point of us learning about having a son with a drug problem might have been so he would want to help Howard. He spoke with Howard in the parking lot similarly to how (I believe) he would have talked to his son.

 

23 minutes ago, One Imaginary Girl said:

I wonder if in fact the woman who knows about Valentina Tereshkova is smart enough to catch on to a stranger who shows a lot of interest in her late husband.

I think Lalo was pretty subtle. Oh, and now we know who the "B" on the German name tag is. "Ben."

 

21 minutes ago, Sharper2002 said:

I’m curious if Howard played right into Kim and Jimmy’s game. Kim mentioned something happening next doesn’t bode well for Howard.

It sure seems like they planned this. I don't know how they could have known Howard would get physical. Has there been any sign of this before? In any case, people here sure did anticipate that Howard would easily figure out it was Jimmy setting up drugs in the locker and the hooker and so forth. Of course Jimmy and Kim knew Howard would figure it out. So we'll just have to see what their real plan is.

 

2 minutes ago, dwmarch said:

I think he took the gun out of his leg holster and stashed it down there. I have a feeling he's trying to set a trap for Lalo. 

It looked like a trap to me as well. Also, he measured off the distance to the backhoe before he knelt down and took the gun out. Well, we didn't see that it was the gun, so I'm wondering if he put something else there, but maybe I'm just overthinking it. Anyway, I guess he's just being super-prepared for Lalo appearing anywhere, including the Superlab.

Now, what did that slide rule award have engraved on it? Anyone know? But the significant part for Lalo seems to be what was on the bottom, which I assume was where and by whom it was manufactured. Not sure how that would lead Lalo to Gus and/or the Superlab.

[Dev F]

1 minute ago, peeayebee said:

It looked like a trap to me as well. Also, he measured off the distance to the backhoe before he knelt down and took the gun out. Well, we didn't see that it was the gun, so I'm wondering if he put something else there, but maybe I'm just overthinking it. Anyway, I guess he's just being super-prepared for Lalo appearing anywhere, including the Superlab.

In the last shot, I believe we do see that it was the gun he put there.

My assumption is that he was pacing out the distances so he can cut all the lights and still find his weapon in the dark.

[WritinMan]

5 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

Lalo seems to be what was on the bottom, which I assume was where and by whom it was manufactured. Not sure how that would lead Lalo to Gus and/or the Superlab.

I'm guessing that if he finds who manufactured it, he could find out who ordered it, and that could be one of (or all of) Werner's crew?

[Starchild]

24 minutes ago, dwmarch said:

Yes, Howard's PI and Mike's protection from Lalo squad. Judging by how closely Mike's men scrutinize everyone who comes anywhere near Gus, I think this PI is going to be in trouble very soon.

Mike said he didn't care what nonsense they were up to. I wonder if that means he'll just let the PI do his thing. And if he does, I wonder if he'd even bother to tell Kim about it.

[Penman61]

11 minutes ago, WritinMan said:

I'm guessing that if he finds who manufactured it, he could find out who ordered it, and that could be one of (or all of) Werner's crew?

Exactly. My German is scheiss but the laser engraving said something like “from your boys [guys],” so it will lead Lalo to the boys. 

[Bannon]

The stashed revolver is a callback to The Godfather. He paced the distance from where he can cut the power to.the lights. He's planning on killing sonebody there, I guess Lalo, but maybe not.

I really hate when the innocent civilians get killed in this universe, so I'm glad that Lalo decided killing Mrs. Ziegler caused more problems  than it solved.

I'm starting to actively dislike Kim, very late in this show, like I began actively disliking Walt pretty early in BB. Her hatred of Howard seems so selfish at this point, and inviting one of her former subordinates to lunch, under false pretenses, to get more intelligence for purposes of harming Howard, is contemptible.

[monagatuna]

Ehrm, so, the guy in the car with Mike after the boxing "match" was Daniel Wormald, yes? He's not credited in the episode on Rotten Tomatoes or IMdb, but Michael Mando IS, so, grain of salt. Could be some random guy, but it sure looked like Wormald.

Edit: Rewatched this scene and the guy TOTALLY looks like Wormald, but doesn't talk like him. No blogs I've read have IDd him but they did several close ups of his face and it's clear we're supposed to recognize him. But how do you go from hiring Mike to guard you while you trade ill gotten pharmaceuticals to drug peddlers, to being hired by Hamlin to follow Jimmy around? If that IS Wormald, there's a very twisty link between the stories. Also, I'm digging the Spanish guitar in this scene. We (reasonably so) haven't heard a whole lot of Spanish guitar in this series.

Also--mistaking kindness for weakness? When has Hamlin ever been kind? He's chaotic neutral at best. Any leeway he's given Jimmy has been out of self-preservation.

Edited May 10, 2022 by monagatuna

[MBayGal]

3 hours ago, Sharper2002 said:

I have so many questions about Gus and his living arrangements now. I didn’t even realize he had the body double in last week’s episode, so I guess they cover for him at his “official” home while he’s across the street?

Body double??  I didn't catch that.  Can you explain?

[Sharper2002]

11 minutes ago, MBayGal said:

Body double??  I didn't catch that.  Can you explain?

If you watch last weeks’s episode when Gus is walking through the tunnel to the other house, he passes a guy that looks similar and is dressed like him. On the BCS Insider podcast, they confirmed it was his body double. I guess they sit in his “main” house while he goes to the other one. 

[thuganomics85]

Lalo might be capable of a lot of (bad) things, but he at least won't kill an innocent woman and her adorable dog if he doesn't have too.  Granted, I'm sure a lot of it was self-preservation/not bring any heat on him to avoid any conflict, but I'll take it!  Didn't predict that Lalo's play was going to be using Werner's widow to get information.  Not sure how he was able to find her as quickly as he did, but I guess someone like him would have resources.  Curious to see what his next play will be.

Howard figures out that a scheme is being pulled on him, but it seems like even that is part of Kim and Jimmy's plan.  Definitely suspect that his downfall is going to be him focusing so much on Jimmy because he believes this is Jimmy's plan and won't predict that it is actually Kim that is running the show.

Gus is so unnerved right now that he is spacing out at work!  Oh, no!  Los Pos Hermanos won't be the same if their beloved manager can't get it together!  At least he's able to make sure the bathroom is "toothbrush-style" clean because I guess that helps him not go off the deep end.

Francesca's reaction to "Saul's" new office and toilet bowel was everything!

A brief moment, but I cracked up at Mike's reaction when he got out of the trunk.  Not sure if his "I"m too old for this shit!" annoyed look was coming from Mike the character or Jonathan Banks himself!

[millennium]

It never occurred to Margarethe to wonder why, of all the rathskellers in all the stadte in all the welt, why has this suave Latino man who just happens to be from the same town associated with my husband's death come here?

Both the boxing match and Lalo's German holiday felt like a detour too far.

I did laugh when Howard started putting the pieces together in his chat with Cliff Main.  

All in all, it felt like filler.  Which is a shame at this point. 

[Cinnabon]

5 hours ago, One Imaginary Girl said:

I wonder if in fact the woman who knows about Valentina Tereshkova is smart enough to catch on to a stranger who shows a lot of interest in her late husband.

She is definitely extremely smart and educated, but don’t quite a few people know about  Valentina? I do admit that I usually forget her last name.

[Cinnabon]

Patrick Fabian speaks about the boxing match during an interview with Variety. Interesting to see that he views Howard much the same way as I and some others do. 
 

Your stance was much more serious and professional, and Bob did all this showboating and fancy footwork.

That was a deliberate character choice. Bob was like, “He should be the guy who gets up on the ring and plays to an imaginary audience.” Howard is trained, and he’s a rules guy. He took boxing because he had heard it was good for your cardiovascular, and he probably heard some other successful lawyer say boxing is the thing to do. So then Howard bought all the stuff, got the best trainer in Albuquerque, then committed to it and quietly boxed. So when he had his power lunches or he’s golfing and trying to close a deal, he’d be like, “Well, you know my trainer when I box…” It’s another card that Howard gets to pull out to show power and status over somebody else.

https://variety.com/2022/tv/features/better-call-saul-boxing-patrick-fabian-1235262029/

ETA - Patrick trained with Luis Moncada, who plays one of the terrifying Salamanca twins!

 

[Andre LaPlume]

The most depressing part was “only one episode left until the midseason finale.”

Surprised that, according to Howard’s license plate, it’s not later than 2005.   

[Simon Boccanegra]

I think 2005 is when the plate will expire, and that we're still in May 2004...which we've been ever since "Dedicado a Max" and "Wexler v. Goodman" in the middle of last season. An eventful month.

[PeterPirate]

I don't think Howard's PI is Wormald.  The guy is older and doesn't speak with Wormald's unforgettable nasal pitch.  IMDb lists a "Lennie Loftin" as a cast member but does not state who he played.  

In retrospect it should have been apparent Kim and Jimmy would expect Howard to figure out what they were up to and incorporate that into their scheme.  As Chicken George said in Roots:  If the enemy figures out your first plan, get yourself another plan.  

Thanks to those who have speculated Gus is setting a trap for Lalo in the lab.  Now we have a workable explanation for how Lalo will die without Saul knowing about it.  Plus, killing Lalo will help with Gus' transformation into a stone-cold Godfather, much like Michael Corleone at the hospital.  

I wonder if Lalo will use the label on the bottom of the memento to track Werner to Lydia.  I heard somewhere that Lydia was supposed to be in the show but couldn't because Covid restrictions kept Laura Fraser from flying to the US.  Maybe that was a misdirect and they flew Tony Dalton to Germany.  Unless Albuquerque or Santa Fe has a light rail system, the exterior shot of Margarethe's abode had to be made in Europe somewhere, right?  And that was a mighty fine restaurant where Lalo met Margarethe.  

[BC4ME]

7 hours ago, dwmarch said:

Howard was letting Jimmy get a couple of shots in so that he'd get his aggression out. Good effort here. It allows Jimmy to do something he couldn't otherwise do which is punch Howard in the face. But Howard said despite his best efforts he didn't think Jimmy would let it go and Jimmy confirmed as much to Kim later.

Thanks for this. It makes more sense now that Howard was letting Jimmy get in a few. But I still don't understand how he came to the clear conclusion Jimmy wouldn't let things go. I just need to watch again.

[Cinnabon]

17 minutes ago, BC4ME said:

Thanks for this. It makes more sense now that Howard was letting Jimmy get in a few. But I still don't understand how he came to the clear conclusion Jimmy wouldn't let things go. I just need to watch again.

Because he knows Jimmy. I don’t think he ever expected the boxing match to end it.

[PeterPirate]

Sadly, I think Howard is a dead duck.  If Kim is the Walter White of BCS then Howard may well be its Hank Schrader.  He hasn't begun to figure out the depth of Kim and Jimmy's intentions, and may get full clarity in the mid-season finale.  

In fact, maybe Howard will figure it out while sitting on his golden toilet, which will eventually be acquired by Saul.  

Edited May 10, 2022 by PeterPirate

[Gobi]

13 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Because he knows Jimmy. I don’t think he ever expected the boxing match to end it.

Howard wants to do things the honorable way, if possible. He offers to “settle this like men” with Jimmy. He doesn’t expect this to work, but now his conscience is clear as he goes to plan B.

 

[Bannon]

This episode really re-emphasizes that "Who is Kim Wexler?" is the show's remaining mystery. It appeared to me that she was mostly annoyed by her former subordinate's gushing over Kim's outward nobility. There's something very dark at the core of Kim's existence, I think, beyond having an alcoholic, irresponsible, mother.