S42.E06: You Can't Hide on Survivor/S42.07: The Devil You Do or the Devil You Don't

[mojoween]

100% I snort-laughed. 

 

[peachmangosteen]

I cheered so hard when Tori won Immunity. She's the only person this season that I genuinely enjoy watching every episode.

That was a fun ep to watch but ultimately afterwards I was just like meh. I always think not really rooting for anyone will be a good thing and then it never is. It always just makes me very meh about the whole thing.

I did love the hilarious, 'It's just so tough being a big man. People think I'm dumb *cries*' convo between Jonathan and Mike. Speaking of Jonathan, does he have dreads? I can't tell what's happening with his hair. And if he does have dreads, 😬.

Omar got such a mastermind edit in that episode. Very well done. Now, if only I could care lol.

ETA: I am SO over Drea. She is insufferable and not in a fun way like Tori.

[Cheyanne11]

1 hour ago, fishcakes said:

Tori was entertaining, but I'm ready to see her go now. She was genuinely mad at Rocksroy for turning back time and seemed to believe her own BS about how she sent him to Exile to help him.

And then got mad when sending him to Exile DID help him.

Girl, sit down.

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

I did love the hilarious, 'It's just so tough being a big man. People think I'm dumb *cries*' convo between Jonathan and Mike. Speaking of Jonathan, does he have dreads? I can't tell what's happening with his hair. And if he does have dreads, 😬.

I didn't necessarily mind that talk, but didn't Mike say later that it was about time a physical beast won Survivor, as if physical threats don't get to the finals ever? I had a good chuckle when I heard that, as if physical threats are somehow always targeted and never do well.

[AncientNewbie]

This was a good ep by my personal measure. 

Tori is going to cockroach her way along and is being edited just like a great wrestling heel. 

Jonathan's tragic doom is already being whispered and it's Jeffy's Shakespearean masterpiece, although I'm sure he'll cry into his pillow at night after the vote. 

Omar really pulled a Cirie by the looks. 

And even bossy Rocksroy got some humanization and came off as so grateful for the sights he could take time to enjoy. I was legit moved by that sequence and I'm a heartless SOB. 

[DEL901]

I can’t see a path for Jonathan to win, but I hope he goes deep and can parlay this into something more.  With his challenge smarts (he plans and guides rather than just use brute strength…although he has that too) I wonder how he would do on the Challenge?

[iMonrey]

I think this hourglass twist infuriated me even more this season than last, because I knew it was coming. So I sat through that torturous challenge knowing whoever won would be screwed. I just wanted to reach through the TV screen and yell "don't bother! All your hard work will just end up being for nothing."

What makes it ten times worse is Jeff's shit eating grin as he talks this stupid twist up for the audience. "This is where it gets fun! Because we're going to fuck them over! Isn't that fun? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! It's going to be so much fun when we fuck them over!" God, I just want to punch him so bad.

I'm sorry, this is just one twist too far. It's bad enough there are three way idols and extra votes and five other people get immunity but to take that from them, after winning that challenge fair and square, just for our "amusement" isn't gameplay. It's just fuckery for the sake of fuckery and I'm sick of it. 

And please, stop pretending there's any "con" to smashing the hourglass. You're going to piss off five people, either way. Only one way gives you immunity. Nobody is going to pass that up.

Quote

Please don't eat at Applebee's.

I suppose it varies from location to location but the ones I've eaten at were quite good. I tend to think there's just a general snobbery towards chain restaurants like that. {shrugs}

[mojoween]

Snerk.  I looooove chain restaurants.  Went to New York City, and happily ate at TGIFriday’s.  I want Texas Roadhouse tomorrow.  But Applebee’s is bad by reputation, at least in my neck of the woods and with personal experience, and those burgers looked super duper gross to me.

Also watching people sucking on chicken wings (even Jonathan!) is horrific.

[princelina]

2 hours ago, fishcakes said:

Tori was entertaining, but I'm ready to see her go now. She was genuinely mad at Rocksroy for turning back time and seemed to believe her own BS about how she sent him to Exile to help him.

 

1 hour ago, Cheyanne11 said:

And then got mad when sending him to Exile DID help him.

Girl, sit down.

Haha!  I was so wishing he had said to her, "Well thanks!  You really did help me out!" 😄

[bankerchick]

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

ETA: I am SO over Drea. She is insufferable and not in a fun way like Tori.

Agreed.  That exchange with Maryanne with her automatically disagreeing with everything Maryanne said, even when Maryanne flipped her whole argument just to agree with Drea was ridiculous.  And not that I could jump up on that ball in 1000 years, but I thought Drea was some sort of athlete?  That seemed like something an All American track star turned fitness consultant should be able to do.

Edited April 14, 2022 by bankerchick

[PaperTree]

When I traveled for work, chain restaurants were useful.  You have a good idea what you're going to get.  Hotels can be iffy and always overpriced.  Around home, I have plenty of good local places so I don't need them.

Never been to Applebee's though, hell haven't sat in a restaurant in 2 years.

I'm torn on Tori.  It swings from love to hate and back again and again.

[seacliffsal]

I have such happy memories of going to Applebee's.  I had one friend that every time we went to the movies we ate at Applebee's and while my nephew was based at Twenty Nine Palms it was a treat to visit him and eat at an Applebee's.  True there weren't a lot of options, but I would happily go and eat there (and their alcoholic drinks are great IMO).  

As for the rest of the episode-I thought it was really good.  I was fearful for Jonathon (whew!) and felt for all of the survivors who worked so hard during that immunity challenge.  However, I really didn't like Jeff gloating directly to us, the viewers, about how great the immunity twist was.  No, it wasn't.  And, it wasn't last season.  And, they should have listened to the complaints made by last season's participants about how it wasn't fair and didn't make sense.  I agree with so many others that the hour glass really isn't a choice as it's the only way the exilee can have immunity and if one is picked to be exiled, they probably aren't the most popular person if their tribe mates are willing to send them off.

It is always interesting to watch all of the survivors who think they are running the game and find out who really is the one running the game.  Go Omar!  And the way he did it was great-if Lydia would rather vote out a member of our one million player alliance (okay, maybe it was only eight but it seemed like almost anyone who ever played the game was in the alliance...) than one of the few people (Maryanne) not in our alliance-how can we trust her?

Tori may want to rethink her chosen field, or maybe gain a little bit more experience first.  I liked Rockster more this episode, maybe because he wasn't having to deal with other people.  I appreciated how well he did with building his shelter and enjoying exile.

I think there was quite a bit of trust demonstrated at that tribal council because nobody used one of the 5,000 advantages that are in play (okay, again, maybe not that many but it seems like it...).

[mojoween]

The Survivor seasons are filmed back to back, so when 42 was shooting, they had NO IDEA (which is ridiculous on the face of it) just how much many viewers would absolutely loathe this twist.

[DrBriCa]

21 minutes ago, seacliffsal said:

Tori may want to rethink her chosen field, or maybe gain a little bit more experience first.

I haven't looked up her CV (although I remember someone posting early on where she trained), but I do remember her saying that she was around 24. That would almost certainly make her a very recent graduate from any masters-level grad program for counselors and therapists, so I would agree that she will certainly benefit from more experience as she grows into her field. 

[ProfCrash]

1 minute ago, mojoween said:

The Survivor seasons are filmed back to back, so when 42 was shooting, they had NO IDEA (which is ridiculous on the face of it) just how much many viewers would absolutely loathe this twist.

True but the contestants from last year were very adamant that this was unfair and awful. Jeff got an earful from everyone and has said how badly received the twist was. I think they added the option that someone could have swapped out because of that. 

Just now, DrBriCa said:

I haven't looked up her CV (although I remember someone posting early on where she trained), but I do remember her saying that she was around 24. That would almost certainly make her a very recent graduate from any masters-level grad program for counselors and therapists, so I would agree that she will certainly benefit from more experience as she grows into her field. 

I believe that she graduated from Oral Roberts

[Haleth]

I hope now that all potential future Survivor players have seen the Turn Back Time twist the producers will retire it. The “fun” was in seeing how the players reacted to the news. Of course a lot of damage can occur with or without the knowledge of the hourglass but if players already know what could come they can prepare for it.

 

[millennium]

3 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I cheered so hard when Tori won Immunity. She's the only person this season that I genuinely enjoy watching every episode.

Vic-TORI-ous!

I was right there cheering with you.   So much fun to see all the sourpusses in the wake of her win.  But she's public enemy no. 1 now.  They'll be coming for her every week.

Rocksroy is as dull as dirt.   His vision quest went on about five minutes too long.

Please, producers, no more prolonged closeups of players picking their teeth, especially coming on the heels of the Applebees reward.

The screaming over Applebees was annoying and embarrassing.    They act like they're truly starving when they're merely hungry and temporarily  deprived of comfort foods.   On Survivor, there's no chance of anyone actually starving (although in the past there has been an instance or two of digestive malfunction).  The subsequent gorging was also gross.   Watching them shove burger after burger into their mouths, and wings, and desserts, etc., pointed out how shallow and fleeting their misery really is.

 

 

[funandfitpt]

I like how aware Jonathan is with him being such a big guy. I think it was last episode when he and Maryann were arguing and he said something about keeping his cool because it would look bad to get angry with her. He doesn’t seem like he’s a big time douche bro. I thought it was very insightful. 

[PaperTree]

23 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

True but the contestants from last year were very adamant that this was unfair and awful. Jeff got an earful from everyone and has said how badly received the twist was. I think they added the option that someone could have swapped out because of that. 

Which worked soooo well.  (Insert Tori eye roll here😎)

[Chicago Redshirt]

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I didn't necessarily mind that talk, but didn't Mike say later that it was about time a physical beast won Survivor, as if physical threats don't get to the finals ever? I had a good chuckle when I heard that, as if physical threats are somehow always targeted and never do well.

But when was the last time an alpha dog/muscle man/challenge beast type actually won? 

I don't remember details from all previous seasons I've watched and I've missed a few. But when I think of guys like James and Ozzy, they've been shut out.

Just looking at pics of winners, I don't remember if Ben or Jeremy would count.

[mojoween]

28 minutes ago, Haleth said:

I hope now that all potential future Survivor players have seen the Turn Back Time twist the producers will retire it. The “fun” was in seeing how the players reacted to the news. Of course a lot of damage can occur with or without the knowledge of the hourglass but if players already know what could come they can prepare for it.

 

Watching two tribes desperately trying to lose a challenge in case there is going to be a twist like that sounds like great fun, doesn’t it?

[ProfCrash]

7 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

But when was the last time an alpha dog/muscle man/challenge beast type actually won? 

I don't remember details from all previous seasons I've watched and I've missed a few. But when I think of guys like James and Ozzy, they've been shut out.

Just looking at pics of winners, I don't remember if Ben or Jeremy would count.

I don't know if Ben or Mike count as Alpha's, I think they probably see themselves as Alphas. Tony is an Alpha. Those are the three that come to the top of my mind. 

[bankerchick]

6 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Just looking at pics of winners, I don't remember if Ben or Jeremy would count.

With Ben, there was some questionable maneuvering around the idol/firemaking (forget the exact details) that had a lot of people thinking the fix was in, though not as shady as inventing new iterations of the game so that Boston Rob could finally win.  And thank God he finally did, or he'd probably still be on every season, and the twists would be epic.  'This time, every vote for Rob won't count and will automatically be moved onto the second choice.'

[Chicago Redshirt]

3 hours ago, fishcakes said:

Please don't eat at Applebee's.

What's wrong with Applebee's? (I mean, other than being an aggressively mediocre chain restaurant that forced us to sit through a commercial disguised as entertainment).

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

And please, stop pretending there's any "con" to smashing the hourglass. You're going to piss off five people, either way. Only one way gives you immunity. Nobody is going to pass that up.

I think that the intensity with which you piss off five people who thought they were safe and that you actively undermined would be way higher than the intensity with which you piss off five people who believed that they were going to have to compete and still had to compete.

At least, projecting myself into the mindset of the former, I would probably make it my life's mission to make sure that the person who TBT didn't win, and I'm surprised Erika didn't get voted out basically at the soonest opportunity. But I could understand and respect someone for leaving things the way they are more.

But yes, the cons of smashing are far outweighed by the cons of not smashing. What might make it a tougher and more interesting decision would be if inherent immunity for the decider is off the table. If it was the case that the decider would still have to compete for immunity, or if it was only a fifty-fifty shot of immunity, maybe that would be better? Or if the decider didn't make the decision in isolation, but could try to leverage the power before making the decision?

30 minutes ago, Haleth said:

I hope now that all potential future Survivor players have seen the Turn Back Time twist the producers will retire it. The “fun” was in seeing how the players reacted to the news. Of course a lot of damage can occur with or without the knowledge of the hourglass but if players already know what could come they can prepare for it.

 

I'm not sure what you could do to prepare for it, really, even if it comes in a similar time/form. Throw the pre-merge challenge? Beg people ot just say no to TBT? Make it clear that if you do, you will be retaliated against? So far, TBT did not result in any punishment for Erika, and I tend to doubt Rocksroy will suffer any either.

And of course, the producers can move it to apply to any team challenge if they want to. Heck, they could introduce a variant for individual challenges if they want to mix things up.

10 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

I don't know if Ben or Mike count as Alpha's, I think they probably see themselves as Alphas. Tony is an Alpha. Those are the three that come to the top of my mind. 

Maybe I'm underestimating his physicality or misremembering his seasons, but I don't think Tony was a challenge dominator in the vein of what Jonathan is. Alpha personality in terms of wanting to be in control of the game, yes. But that's not the same sort of thing.

[mojoween]

7 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Maybe I'm underestimating his physicality or misremembering his seasons, but I don't think Tony was a challenge dominator in the vein of what Jonathan is. Alpha personality in terms of wanting to be in control of the game, yes. But that's not the same sort of thing.

Yeah what I got from Mike’s conversation is that he was thinking of an alpha like Aquaman (Jonathan) and not an alpha like Thing (Tony).  Big guy, not necessarily big personality.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, bankerchick said:

And not that I could jump up on that ball in 1000 years, but I thought Drea was some sort of athlete?  That seemed like something an All American track star turned fitness consultant should be able to do.

Drea was a hurdler, I believe. To be fair, most All American track stars and fitness consultants aren't plying their craft after days of limited nutrition and water, sleeping on some combination of dirt, sand, & bamboo, and getting mentally exhausted from dealing with the likes of Rocksroy and my girl Tori.

[DEL901]

I was rewatching the challenge…when Jonathan got ready to run up and leap onto the big boulder, the blue boulder was rolling towards him and Jeff called out in a panic.   Luckily Jonathan can also fly.

eta.  Omar played that perfectly, so low key that I’m sure that by the time he was done, they thought it was their idea to get rid of Lydia.    And while no Omar, Jonathan has some strategy, offering up MaryAnne just to show he was loyal to the 7.5, but hoping that the vote could go elsewhere.  And MaryAnne, for all her chatter, does know when to talk….or, and I’ve done this at times….chatter until you can turn the conversation the way you want it to go but without it seeming deliberate.  

Edited April 14, 2022 by DEL901

[fishcakes]

24 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

But when was the last time an alpha dog/muscle man/challenge beast type actually won? 

Those guys seem to win a minority of the time. In that category, I'd only put Tony (alpha), Mike (challenge beast), Yul (alpha, but he beat Ozzy, who was a challenge beast), Boston Rob and Tom Westman (who tick all the boxes, but neither of them won every season they played).

12 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

4 hours ago, fishcakes said:

Please don't eat at Applebee's.

What's wrong with Applebee's? (I mean, other than being an aggressively mediocre chain restaurant that forced us to sit through a commercial disguised as entertainment).

They have a long history of abusive and discriminatory employment practices. They made a big show recently of firing an exec whose "ha ha this is how to best exploit our workers and lowball them on wages!" email (with the congratulatory high-fives from recipients included) got leaked on social media, but they've had numerous EEOC complaints and lawsuits filed against them for wage theft, sexual harassment, and racial and sexual orientation discrimination over at least the last ten years. I have no opinion about their food; I think I ate there once a long time ago, but that might have been a Chili's. And I certainly don't blame anyone on Survivor for pounding down a bunch of their wings and burgers after having almost no food for two weeks, but personally I won't spend money in one of their restaurants.

[HurricaneVal]

I think (hope) the Turn Back Time twist is done now.  The incoming Survivor cast members in future seasons will know about it now, and will strategize that first "merge" challenge accordingly.  As someone said upthread, it is going to be mighty boring to see each team actively trying to lose.  Or....maybe it will be hilarious.  But Jeffy doesn't like his beloved show to be funny.  He wants it to be serious and sociologically relevant.  The back to back seasons meant that this cast in #42 didn't know about the TBT twist introduced #41, so it was a surprise.  The surprise is blown now.

My only fear is that they will come up with something else equally lame....or worse.....

Omar played that brilliantly.  Now he needs to keep it low key and not gloat--or rest on his laurels.  His best strategy will be to calmly and coolly move on to the next thing, and worm out a good solution there.  And so on, and so on.  I'm afraid he'll spill the beans though, and suddenly the others will look at him as a strategic threat and then he's out.

Speaking of Omar, did he get new clothes?  Or has he always had that orange button down, and the crazy ostrich t-shirt was layered under it?  Or did Daniel leave his shirt behind?  I only spotted his wardrobe change because that crazy ostrich was so prominent.  Did anyone else sport new clothes?

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, HurricaneVal said:

Speaking of Omar, did he get new clothes?  Or has he always had that orange button down, and the crazy ostrich t-shirt was layered under it?  Or did Daniel leave his shirt behind?  I only spotted his wardrobe change because that crazy ostrich was so prominent.  Did anyone else sport new clothes?

I don't remember Jonathan wearing that Old Testament cosplay tunic before this episode, but maybe he always had it and has just been mostly going shirtless.

[meep.meep]

Romeo and Lydia had a conversation about getting out Jonathan right now because it was the only chance that they'd get.

 

[iMonrey]

Quote

I think (hope) the Turn Back Time twist is done now.  The incoming Survivor cast members in future seasons will know about it now, and will strategize that first "merge" challenge accordingly.  As someone said upthread, it is going to be mighty boring to see each team actively trying to lose.  Or....maybe it will be hilarious.  But Jeffy doesn't like his beloved show to be funny.  He wants it to be serious and sociologically relevant.  The back to back seasons meant that this cast in #42 didn't know about the TBT twist introduced #41, so it was a surprise.  The surprise is blown now.

I'd pay to see both teams actively trying to lose the challenge. 

I think the stupid secret phrases twist is meant to be funny but it encapsulates perfectly my objection to all these twists. They aren't game, they are gimmicks meant to amuse the audience. Hopefully this one is dead now too; future players will be listening for it.

[Lamb18]

I'm watching this episode now. After the big reveal that Daniel went home, I was expecting Maryanne to scream and cry because she was in love with Daniel and knew they were destined for each other. Alas, Fate's cruel hand had Daniel sent home.

I like Ruh Roh Rocksroy's appreciation of Fiji while at Exile. Also his attitude 

[DEL901]

42 minutes ago, Brendan Birch said:

But, see, that's what gets me about Omar getting Lydia voted out.  Did she specifically say she was targeting Jonathan right that moment?  Or did she mean when it got down to just the eight?  It sounded like the former when she was talking to Omar (which perfectly justifies Omar's move), but when she was talking to another member of the eight (I've already forgotten whom), it sounded like the latter.  If the former, then yeah, I see why Omar did it.  If the latter, then I think he moved too soon, and he might risk alienating Hai over that.

Thing is, the only options were Jonathan, MaryAnne and Lindsey who were allies  of Omar’s,so he didn’t want them to go.  That left Hai and Lydia.   He went for the one who gave him an opening by mentioning a member of the alliance.  

[Genius]

6 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Maryanne presents as this bubbly, nonstop talker. But I was interested in two things she did this episode: refraining from voicing her opinion and plan when she was meeting with people. And when she was super sarcastic (almost to the point of being nasty) when she was working on the puzzle and Jonathan and others were giving her unneeded suggestions. I wonder how much of bubbly Maryanne is a mask and how much the snarky, snappy Maryanne is the real Maryanne.

She is a classic narcissist, so there's definitely some nastiness always bubbling under the surface for anyone who dares suggest that she isn't amazing and loveable and capable at all times.

Also, I'm shocked they even did the stupid hourglass twist this time, given all the shit Jeff got for it last season.  And he got the shit in-season, not after it aired and after S42 filmed, but in time to fix it for S42, if I recall correctly. 

Yes, found an article about it, from CinemaBlend (https://www.cinemablend.com/television/survivor-41-contestant-sets-the-record-straight-on-alleged-argument-with-jeff-probst-about-the-hourglass-twist):

Quote

For context, Sydney Segal ended up being the fallout at tribal on the night of the hourglass twist – after straight-up madness ensued. She talked a lot of post-elimination smack about the role reversals that sent her home. But she also revealed to TV Line that what didn't get aired from the episode was how Danny McCray “reamed Jeff out” for the hourglass decision being a “lie.” Apparently, Jeff Probst acquiesced that they would “make it better for future seasons.”

Did he really make it "better for future seasons"?  Better would have been to drop it, if you ask me.  It's an unfair, shitty betrayal of the very idea of earned immunity, but whatever, right?  The show has proven they can produce a cheaper product in less time as long as they stuff it with an overabundance of unnecessary twists, advantages and bullshit that completely detracts from the actual storytelling, for me.  

Edited April 14, 2022 by Genius

[Lamb18]

Laughing at how the large alliance says hi to Chanelle, then immediately disbands.

[Lady Calypso]

2 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Maybe I'm underestimating his physicality or misremembering his seasons, but I don't think Tony was a challenge dominator in the vein of what Jonathan is. Alpha personality in terms of wanting to be in control of the game, yes. But that's not the same sort of thing.

Very true. I'd need to go back and rewatch exactly what Mike said, but I felt like he was also including himself in that category, so I think it's not just challenge beasts like Jonathan. And I don't think I'd necessarily include Mike in this challenge beast category either; I don't remember anything truly memorable from him in the pre-merge during challenges. He's strong and good at them, yes. But if he included himself in this whole "physical threat" aspect, I'm not sure. I'd need to see more of him in these individual challenges.

Going back to rewatch, though, Mike does say that "For once, the people who are physically stronger can win this." And that's why I'm bugged by it, I realize. I do think he is including himself in that. But there have been physically strong players who can win. But that's not how people win the game. They can't win based on just strength. They have to have some strategic play on top of some social gameplay. 

Plus, as we've seen, Jonathan may be physically strong but he's said that he's not strong at puzzles, he doesn't seem to be good at balancing challenges (so far, just this past balancing challenge) and physical strength can only get you so far. 

That being said, Jonathan has the insight into the game and he's a good player. But you can't win just based on physical strength, and I'm not really sure I think Mike's point hits as hard as he thinks it does. Maybe it's the whole "for once, a physically strong player can win" kind of bugs me in general. 

[LadyChatts]

5 hours ago, mojoween said:

Snerk.  I looooove chain restaurants.  Went to New York City, and happily ate at TGIFriday’s.  I want Texas Roadhouse tomorrow.  But Applebee’s is bad by reputation, at least in my neck of the woods and with personal experience, and those burgers looked super duper gross to me.

Also watching people sucking on chicken wings (even Jonathan!) is horrific.

This is my problem with Applebees.  I’ve eaten at 3 different locations and had bad experiences at all of them.  Cold food, undercooked food, overcooked food-won’t even get into some of the cleanliness and service issues.  And I’ve worked in customer service for almost 20 years so I’ve taught myself to tolerate a lot when I go out because I know what it’s like being on the receiving end of things.  Wasn’t always like that, but they got bad.

I will say though that I’m all about chain restaurants if I’m traveling.  I know a lot of people who like local places, but unless I’m with someone local who can vouch for the reputation, I’ll stick with Taco Bell and Outback.  

Edited April 14, 2022 by LadyChatts

[ProfCrash]

17 minutes ago, Genius said:

She is a classic narcissist, so there's definitely some nastiness always bubbling under the surface for anyone who dares suggest that she isn't amazing and loveable and capable at all times.

Maryann snapped at someone, Jonathon or Hai, during the immunity challenge when she was working on the puzzle. The way she said it was full on snarky. There is an edge there and I think she tries to hide it as much as possible but she has her moments. It will be interesting to see if more of those moments occur as she gets less and less food and more tired. Her arguments with Jonathon have been over stupid stuff. It is almost like she feels like she has to stand up to him because he such a physically dominant person.

[LadyChatts]

9 minutes ago, Lamb18 said:

Laughing at how the large alliance says hi to Chanelle, then immediately disbands.

They seriously couldn’t have made it more obvious.  I actually felt sorry for her, although Chanelle has dug her own hole in this game so she brought it on herself.  But maybe at least pretend she’s one of the group and get her thoughts.  

[ProfCrash]

2 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Very true. I'd need to go back and rewatch exactly what Mike said, but I felt like he was also including himself in that category, so I think it's not just challenge beasts like Jonathan. And I don't think I'd necessarily include Mike in this challenge beast category either; I don't remember anything truly memorable from him in the pre-merge during challenges. He's strong and good at them, yes. But if he included himself in this whole "physical threat" aspect, I'm not sure. I'd need to see more of him in these individual challenges.

Going back to rewatch, though, Mike does say that "For once, the people who are physically stronger can win this." And that's why I'm bugged by it, I realize. I do think he is including himself in that. But there have been physically strong players who can win. But that's not how people win the game. They can't win based on just strength. They have to have some strategic play on top of some social gameplay. 

Plus, as we've seen, Jonathan may be physically strong but he's said that he's not strong at puzzles, he doesn't seem to be good at balancing challenges (so far, just this past balancing challenge) and physical strength can only get you so far. 

That being said, Jonathan has the insight into the game and he's a good player. But you can't win just based on physical strength, and I'm not really sure I think Mike's point hits as hard as he thinks it does. Maybe it's the whole "for once, a physically strong player can win" kind of bugs me in general. 

Many of the Alphas never make it far enough in the game to have a chance to dominate. I tend to think of the Alphas as the men who are controlling and think that they are the person in charge. Tom was an alpha, in my way of thinking. The Jocks see themselves as Alphas, whether or not they are is another story I suppose. Mike (Dan F season not this season) and Tony are Alphas in my book because they see themselves as running things and are more then a little unhappy if they are not the ones running things.

Mike in this season is not an Alpha. He is physically strong but he doesn't have a dominant personality and he is not someone who thinks he can impose his will on the game. Jonathon is physically an Alpha and I think is an Alpha in general but is kind of chill in how he responds to things because he understands how a larger reaction would look.

[DEL901]

11 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Very true. I'd need to go back and rewatch exactly what Mike said, but I felt like he was also including himself in that category, so I think it's not just challenge beasts like Jonathan. And I don't think I'd necessarily include Mike in this challenge beast category either; I don't remember anything truly memorable from him in the pre-merge during challenges. He's strong and good at them, yes. But if he included himself in this whole "physical threat" aspect, I'm not sure. I'd need to see more of him in these individual challenges.

Going back to rewatch, though, Mike does say that "For once, the people who are physically stronger can win this." And that's why I'm bugged by it, I realize. I do think he is including himself in that. But there have been physically strong players who can win. But that's not how people win the game. They can't win based on just strength. They have to have some strategic play on top of some social gameplay. 

Plus, as we've seen, Jonathan may be physically strong but he's said that he's not strong at puzzles, he doesn't seem to be good at balancing challenges (so far, just this past balancing challenge) and physical strength can only get you so far. 

That being said, Jonathan has the insight into the game and he's a good player. But you can't win just based on physical strength, and I'm not really sure I think Mike's point hits as hard as he thinks it does. Maybe it's the whole "for once, a physically strong player can win" kind of bugs me in general. 

I think Mike and Hai want to be linked with Jonathan as physical threats.  It is an ego thing.  I don’t blame them, but really, Jonathan is in a class by himself, not just this season, but there are probably only a handful of players in the same class in all 42 seasons.  

[Lamb18]

Rats, Tori wins immunity. (Although, good for her--that is one of the toughest immunity challenges)

Interesting tribal council tonight.

[HurricaneVal]

1 hour ago, DEL901 said:

Thing is, the only options were Jonathan, MaryAnne and Lindsey who were allies  of Omar’s,so he didn’t want them to go.  That left Hai and Lydia.   He went for the one who gave him an opening by mentioning a member of the alliance.

OooooooOOOOOOooooooohhh!  ::she says, in a tone of sudden understanding::

That makes sense.  I keep forgetting about the fact that half of everybody had immunity.  Duh.  I get it now! 

I wonder if Omar considered targeting Hai instead.  Hai is more of a threat than Lydia going forward, so targeting him might have made more sense, but maybe Omar realized he could turn Hai against Lydia more easily than he could turn Lydia against Hai, particularly after Hai had been so very loyal to Lydia in that one horrible Tribal Council that forced Jenny to go home.  Lydia proposing Jonathan as the target gave Omar a good defensible opening should he have to explain his actions in, say, a Final Tribal Council. 

It makes sense now!  Thanks....

[princelina]

3 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I think that the intensity with which you piss off five people who thought they were safe and that you actively undermined would be way higher than the intensity with which you piss off five people who believed that they were going to have to compete and still had to compete.

At least, projecting myself into the mindset of the former, I would probably make it my life's mission to make sure that the person who TBT didn't win, and I'm surprised Erika didn't get voted out basically at the soonest opportunity. But I could understand and respect someone for leaving things the way they are more.

I'm totally the opposite - on either side I'd think the person was a moron who didn't deserve to win.  If I was on the winning side and lost my immunity I'd be pissed but could understand their reasoning.  If I was on the losing side and the moron had refused to give not only me but also HIMSELF immunity I'd think he was too stupid to live, let alone be on Survivor 😄

 

[peachmangosteen]

Oh, I forgot to mention how I maybe sorta kinda like Chanelle now because she didn't think Jonathan was that golden. It takes so little for me lol.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Oh, I forgot to mention how I maybe sorta kinda like Chanelle now because she didn't think Jonathan was that golden. It takes so little for me lol.

I've been a stealth Chanelle fan for a while now. Between her and Tori being in constant trouble, and my other fave Lindsay being one of the few under-edited people this season, my rooting interests are not looking good 😆

[DEL901]

14 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Oh, I forgot to mention how I maybe sorta kinda like Chanelle now because she didn't think Jonathan was that golden. It takes so little for me lol.

LOL. I took that as sour grapes.    

[ProfCrash]

1 hour ago, HurricaneVal said:

OooooooOOOOOOooooooohhh!  ::she says, in a tone of sudden understanding::

That makes sense.  I keep forgetting about the fact that half of everybody had immunity.  Duh.  I get it now! 

I wonder if Omar considered targeting Hai instead.  Hai is more of a threat than Lydia going forward, so targeting him might have made more sense, but maybe Omar realized he could turn Hai against Lydia more easily than he could turn Lydia against Hai, particularly after Hai had been so very loyal to Lydia in that one horrible Tribal Council that forced Jenny to go home.  Lydia proposing Jonathan as the target gave Omar a good defensible opening should he have to explain his actions in, say, a Final Tribal Council. 

It makes sense now!  Thanks....

Jonathon had bonded with Hai and probably would not  have wanted Hai. Lydia also probably would have felt like she couldn't target Hai after the potential rock draw risk her took for her.

[violet and green]

5 hours ago, DrBriCa said:

I would agree that she will certainly benefit from more experience as she grows into her field. 

How is she going to grow into her field? She has zero self-awareness and low empathy.