S01.E08: Lizzy

[slowpoked]

23 hours ago, AntFTW said:

In that same scene, Sunny couldn't do it at all. I meant to comment on that scene in my earlier post but that contrast between Sonny phoning boardmembers and EH phoning boardmembers, I find it fascinating. Sonny is a wealthy guy in his own right with business experience and he seems to be having the tougher time on the phone, as opposed to a relative newcomer in business.

In the scene, he's angry and she's calm; he's going to voicemail and her calls are being answered; he can't convince someone to just call him back and she convinces the entire board to stand behind her.

That is striking to me.

I'm sure racism played a part in that, which they had already alluded to in earlier episodes. Sunny himself said something ridiculous like he had to buy himself a fancy car so that people will respect him, or something like that. To the board, Sunny isn't "one of them", but a necessary evil because of his 20M investment right when the company was floundering, but they could do without him at any point in time. I mean, Sunny is the classic scapegoat. No one held EH accountable at all, or at least in the beginning they tried to, then enter Sunny. George Shultz chose to blame "people around EH" instead of EH himself. Whatever happened to "party of personal responsibility?"

Meanwhile, the board sees EH as "one of them". They see her as the next Zuckerberg wonder. So they tried to shield EH as much as they can, while being blind to the fact that EH is the main reason for all of the company's failures.

[Cinnabon]

8 hours ago, SlovakPrincess said:

Well, Linda mostly seemed to feel sorry for herself because of her ruined career, so that seemed to fit with her overall personality.

I think they did a fine job showing Elizabeth's delusion and how she quickly tried to reinvent herself as a fun loving free spirit once Theranos crashed, happy to paint Sunny as the only villain and the wreckage of Theranos as a good faith effort that just didn't work out.  

What I think was rushed was her relationship with Billy Evans.  Her undeserved happily ever after comes courtesy of finding a wealthy young guy who wants to date someone in the middle of a huge scandal and doesn't seem to mind her abrupt change from her public persona -- how on earth did that come about??   When did she find time to meet him?  

There is some serious irony in the fact that she portrayed herself as this scrappy feminist icon and, in the end, she's saved by becoming a rich man's wife.  

Meet AND marry this sociopathic, empty shell of a woman. I’m still completely shocked about that.

[Cinnabon]

7 hours ago, SnapHappy said:

And my strange question for the end: Did the Uber guy let her in the car with her dog?  Do they have special Uber's that allow pets?  I've used it ONCE and have no idea.   It did show on her phone that she ordered an "Economy" class car.   In her bouts of delusion, she did have a few logical moves.  

Amanda kept morphing between an older Dakota Fanning and a younger Jodie Foster for me, in her looks.  Especially when professionally dressed and made up.  She really took me FAR away from the real Amanda & nailed the sociopath persona so chillingly.  

Maybe they can do a season 2 of her conviction, first years in jail & how everybody else ended up.  I would watch.  

Uber is an unethical, greedy company that exploits its desperate drivers. Most of the drivers can’t afford to turn down any fares, dogs or not.

[Cinnabon]

47 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

Technically, she wouldn't have even gotten that far with Theranos if it weren't for a romantic relationship with a rich man. The board was about to fire her early on (I think it was 2007 or 2008), and she saved herself by bringing Sunny and his $20M investment into the company.

ETA: That's why I said upthread that I hope Billy's family has control over his trust fund. Billy doesn't seem nearly as intelligent as Sunny, so I'm sure he'll happily give "Lizzy" all his money unless the trust is set up in a way that he can't make large withdrawals.

I read the other day that she may have to pay a $250,000 fine when sentenced. That’s pennies to a woman who married into millions. 🥲

Edited April 8, 2022 by Cinnabon

[DakotaJustice]

1 hour ago, Cinnabon said:

I read the other day that she may have to pay a $250,000 fine when sentenced. That’s pennies to a woman who married into millions. 🥲

She and Sunny will be on the hook to pay millions in restitution. Not just $250k.  That’s why Sunny is fighting this in court - he doesn’t want to be considered part of the fraud, but just another victim. 

Edited April 8, 2022 by DakotaJustice

[slowpoked]

1 hour ago, Cinnabon said:

I read the other day that she may have to pay a $250,000 fine when sentenced. That’s pennies to a woman who married into millions. 🥲

I hope he has a hardcore prenup, considering how easy it is for EH to hoodwink a lot of people using her inexplicable charms

[SunnyBeBe]

I wonder why they had the scene where Holmes is having a breakdown after her interview  and she looks at her mom and comments about her sexual assault in college. Like it was her mom’s fault.   Well, that’s just ridiculous and a deflection of her her own sociopathy.  It seemed the show was trying to justify her behavior with theranos.  
 

I see Homes and Sunny as equally culpable.  I have no sympathy for him being hoodwinked.  He was a a predator, just like her.  They both were hellbent on greed, ego and destruction.  He defended her to the last minute. To me, 20 years each sounds about right.

I was also offended that they showed Holmes with her new lover as if she found true love.  Why?  At least show how she connived to meet this mark and manipulate him to hook up with her…..Do not imply it’s a real relationship.  Please….

Shulz was a true a hole.  What a lunatic. I do wonder if he was a complete moron or suffering dementia.  

[xaxat]

5 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

I read the other day that she may have to pay a $250,000 fine when sentenced. That’s pennies to a woman who married into millions. 🥲

On Carreyrou's podcast he said that legal experts estimated her legal defense could have cost as much at ten million dollars. And that's before an appeal.

They are burning through a lot of their money.

Edited April 9, 2022 by xaxat

[hoosiermommy]

18 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I wonder why they had the scene where Holmes is having a breakdown after her interview  and she looks at her mom and comments about her sexual assault in college. Like it was her mom’s fault.   Well, that’s just ridiculous and a deflection of her her own sociopathy.  It seemed the show was trying to justify her behavior with theranos.  

The point of the discussion with her mom was the statement (paraphrased) “If you forget, is it lying?” That was her strategy for the depositions…if she believes that, “I don’t recall” allows her the moral high ground in her mind of “truth”.  The show wasn’t trying to justify her behavior at all, but to show how she could twist the truth to always come out as right.

[Cinnabon]

1 hour ago, xaxat said:

On Carreyrou's podcast he said that legal experts estimated her legal defense could have cost as much at ten million dollars. And that's before an appeal.

They are burning through a lot of their money.

That makes me feel a tiny bit better , but not much.

1 hour ago, hoosiermommy said:

The point of the discussion with her mom was the statement (paraphrased) “If you forget, is it lying?” That was her strategy for the depositions…if she believes that, “I don’t recall” allows her the moral high ground in her mind of “truth”.  The show wasn’t trying to justify her behavior at all, but to show how she could twist the truth to always come out as right.

Yes, it IS lying, Elizabeth  . But since when does she care about lying?

[qtpye]

On 4/7/2022 at 11:12 AM, AntFTW said:

This show makes the word “fucking” sound so powerful. Earlier in the season the Walgreens exec says “we’re fucking Walgreens and we’re walking” and now I feel like Walgreens should say that for every deal they walk away from. In this episode, Erika Cheung writes a letter to “C-M-fucking-S”, the “boring” federal agency, and I feel like CMS’s tagline should be “C-M-fucking-S.” That doesn’t sound boring, now does it? 🤣

She absolutely stuck the landing. Amanda Seyfried wrapped it up perfectly. She was really intense this episode. I’m not sure if real-life EH was as intense but Amanda Seyfried made it work. The confrontation between EH and Sunny when she asks if Sunny talked to a lawyer was EPIC! Amanda’s eyes looked like they had heat seeking missiles and they were going for the kill.

I felt a teensy bit sorry for Sunny because it’s like EH got to move on. I don’t mean that just in their romantic relationship, but in general. It seemed like she just got to put the whole Theranos saga in her rear view and not look back meanwhile everyone else is dealing with the blowback. People got medical scares that they spent time and money on that they can’t get back. The in-house counsel says she couldn’t find a job because no one would hire her with the stink of Theranos on her (and I imagine that to be true for other employees as well).
 

It’s like other people had to deal with the blowback of being attached to Theranos in some way, and were  forced to deal with it because society ensures they are reminded of it with each job interview for employees and patients who had to be retested for various things and deal the costs of doing that… and EH got to move on to a new boyfriend and be in bliss. Sure, she feels sad because the company failed but that’s it. Obviously, we know that she eventually was investigated, indicted and found guilty of some things but I still get the feeling she’ll get a slap on the wrist.

 

On 4/7/2022 at 1:05 PM, SonofaBiscuit said:

The best part of this episode was Erika insisting on sending the signed letter to CMS, that agency investigating the complaint, and then CMS actually shutting down Theranos' labs for two years. Bwah ha ha ha! I love that Carreyrou just wanted to immediately call Erika and let her know that this was happening because of her and she had saved people's lives. Lovely. I must buy his book soon!

OMG, Linda's reaction to that terrible, cringey interview. "That was good!" I mean, I don't know. Personally, I think it could have used like three more "devastatings." The worst part is that even though I have never seen that interview, I know if I go searching for it, that will be exactly how it played out. Yikes!

I am glad that Tyler had the support of at least some of his family (enough so that is caused a rift). Grandpa Schultz kinda sucked. He didn't even apologize, and he seemed mostly concerned with the entire scandal besmirching the Schultz name. I mean, did it not register that people were getting wildly inaccurate blood test results, thinking (according to the screen at the end of the episode) that they were HIV positive, had cancer, miscarried, etc.? How freaking awful.

It's hard to believe that there's a man out there that would spend five minutes Googling Elizabeth Holmes' name and think, "Yes, this woman is girlfriend/mother material!😍" People are freaking nuts!

 

On 4/7/2022 at 2:16 PM, Cinnabon said:

I am sickened and enraged that she tried to paint herself as an ally to other women, and played the “they’re against me because they’re misogynists” card. No, they were exposing you as the fraud you were. And her cowardice and inability to come clean when questioned (I don’t recall, I don’t remember, ad nauseum) was also pathetic .

 

On 4/7/2022 at 5:50 PM, AntFTW said:

In that same scene, Sunny couldn't do it at all. I meant to comment on that scene in my earlier post but that contrast between Sonny phoning boardmembers and EH phoning boardmembers, I find it fascinating. Sonny is a wealthy guy in his own right with business experience and he seems to be having the tougher time on the phone, as opposed to a relative newcomer in business.

In the scene, he's angry and she's calm; he's going to voicemail and her calls are being answered; he can't convince someone to just call him back and she convinces the entire board to stand behind her.

That is striking to me.

 

7 hours ago, slowpoked said:

I'm sure racism played a part in that, which they had already alluded to in earlier episodes. Sunny himself said something ridiculous like he had to buy himself a fancy car so that people will respect him, or something like that. To the board, Sunny isn't "one of them", but a necessary evil because of his 20M investment right when the company was floundering, but they could do without him at any point in time. I mean, Sunny is the classic scapegoat. No one held EH accountable at all, or at least in the beginning they tried to, then enter Sunny. George Shultz chose to blame "people around EH" instead of EH himself. Whatever happened to "party of personal responsibility?"

Meanwhile, the board sees EH as "one of them". They see her as the next Zuckerberg wonder. So they tried to shield EH as much as they can, while being blind to the fact that EH is the main reason for all of the company's failures.

I actually thought the HBO series on Holmes called "The Inventor" was far too kind.

The podcast and the book were better.

She really enjoyed playing the role of laboratory scientist/CEO Barbie.

Holmes is very good at conning men who should know better. Why a handsome rich young man from MIT would want anything to do with her is beyond my wildest guess.

I think Amanda S did a great job with the intensity. However, I think the real Holmes has a personal charm (when she wants to impress someone) that was not portrayed correctly. You kept on going, "Why would anyone believe this weirdo?" with Amanda but the real Holmes could seem very authentic when she wanted to. Her TED talk was annoying but she seemed very sincere in her interviews.

She is now staying at an English manor estate that is valued at $135 million.

 

[SlovakPrincess]

15 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I wonder why they had the scene where Holmes is having a breakdown after her interview  and she looks at her mom and comments about her sexual assault in college. Like it was her mom’s fault.   Well, that’s just ridiculous and a deflection of her her own sociopathy.  It seemed the show was trying to justify her behavior with theranos.  

I saw it less as the show trying to justify her behavior as the show illustrating how Elizabeth Holmes deflects to blame others and deny responsibility.  In that scene she seems to be saying "It's not lying if I let myself forget/don't think about it, and it's because that's what you told me to do after I was assaulted, mom."    Her parents did feed into what she became (laser focused on personal achievement and success at the expense of all else), but it's obviously portrayed as manipulative and ludicrous, a way to guilt her mom into shutting up.  

Another thing I noticed about that scene when I looked at it again ... she's already dog-shopping online.  She's over it and ready to reinvent herself, while her parents panic over whether her brother's going to get deposed and her lawyers panic over whether she's going to fuck up the interview.  Pure disconnect from reality.  

[SunnyBeBe]

If Sunny awoke to the Board meeting ending at 7:00 a.m., what time was the board meeting?  So, late night Holmes notifies everyone on the Board to show up at 6:00 a.m.?  Odd.  
 

I sort of laughed when Holmes packed two small bags and one box when she left the house.  What about all those black uniforms she had?lol

 

[chocolatine]

51 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

If Sunny awoke to the Board meeting ending at 7:00 a.m., what time was the board meeting?  So, late night Holmes notifies everyone on the Board to show up at 6:00 a.m.?  Odd.  

It's not routine - some boards have bylaws as to how much notice period is required to call a board meeting - but I'm sure in this case, with most of the people involved having hundreds of millions of dollars on the line, they were willing to waive that requirement.

53 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I sort of laughed when Holmes packed two small bags and one box when she left the house.  What about all those black uniforms she had?lol

The black uniforms were part of her past persona, which she had already discarded by that time. We saw her wipe off the red lipstick, take her hair out of the bun, and take off the black turtleneck right after the disastrous interview.

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I sort of laughed when Holmes packed two small bags and one box when she left the house.  What about all those black uniforms she had?lol

She did say she would send someone to pick up her things, but Sunny was kind of yelling over it.

Amanda's acting was so chilling during that whole last half.  Her dead eyes when Sunny said something like "You're a ghost, you're nothing" and then when Sunny pushed her box to the ground and she said "Okay.  Bye."  😐.  Emmy sealed.  Done deal.

Edited April 9, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[snickers]

I'm with others that felt the ending was rushed.  My opinion is that the series started off really strong, but then lost its momentum about half way through after Theranos really took off.  I too wanted to see the Walgreens fallout (we never saw those guys again after they told her to get the machines in the wellness centers) and I wanted to see overall downfall of the company, we got none of that.

I wanted to see the reaction of the weirdo doc from Walgreens when he figured out he was wrong, or the CEO guy who should have listened to the more boring one who tried to warn them.

As for EH's current hubby, they say he's just as delusional as EH can be, I remember hearing on the 20/20 podcast how one cannot tell him, "no"

So they sound like two peas in a pod to me-

I'm hoping EH gets 7-10 years, best case scenario she gets 15 but we can only hope for that, but hey, maybe she will, here's hoping!

I think someone had commented about Theranos' lawyers, David B quit the board, a guy like that would jump ship before the you know what hits the fan!

But again, we didn't see any of that play out.

I will say, I don't know if Walgreens or CVS ever plan to bring back the wellness center's, but if they do, count me out, I learned from listening to the podcast, wellness center do not require FDA approval....after this fiasco....I will never set foot in a pharmacy wellness center

And as a government worker, I will say....I can totally relate to that guy from the department of Medicaid... where I work we cannot accept food from outside entities, and I was thinking, "I'm sure he is like, I get paid by the hour so take as long as you like, I will keep busy with my snacks and work here"

But I'm wondering why no one thought to contact CMS before????? Theranos could have been shut down a lot sooner....you can't argue with facts (that's we say at my place)

Edited April 9, 2022 by snickers

[Cinnabon]

3 hours ago, SlovakPrincess said:

I saw it less as the show trying to justify her behavior as the show illustrating how Elizabeth Holmes deflects to blame others and deny responsibility.  In that scene she seems to be saying "It's not lying if I let myself forget/don't think about it, and it's because that's what you told me to do after I was assaulted, mom."    Her parents did feed into what she became (laser focused on personal achievement and success at the expense of all else), but it's obviously portrayed as manipulative and ludicrous, a way to guilt her mom into shutting up.  

Another thing I noticed about that scene when I looked at it again ... she's already dog-shopping online.  She's over it and ready to reinvent herself, while her parents panic over whether her brother's going to get deposed and her lawyers panic over whether she's going to fuck up the interview.  Pure disconnect from reality.  

I read that she told everyone her new dog was a “wolf.” She even had to exaggerate and lie about that.                    

Maybe Walgreens’s threatened to sue if more was shown about the failure of their wellness centers? Idk.
 

 

Edited April 9, 2022 by Cinnabon

[DakotaJustice]

The CVS in my area has what they call a Minute Clinic - like an urgent care.

[Cinnabon]

1 hour ago, DakotaJustice said:

The CVS in my area has what they call a Minute Clinic - like an urgent care.

So does mine.

[IntrovertRed]

On 4/8/2022 at 4:06 PM, Cinnabon said:

Amanda kept morphing between an older Dakota Fanning and a younger Jodie Foster for me, in her looks.  Especially when professionally dressed and made up.  She really took me FAR away from the real Amanda & nailed the sociopath persona so chillingly.  

She absolutely did!  Usually I still see the actor when they are portraying a real-life person.  But here, Amanda just completely becomes Elizabeth and was freaking amazing.  

I have no sympathy for real Linda, she knew what she was doing. Plus she went back to the Boies firm after Theranos when she worked prior, though she recently left.

The actor portraying John Carreyrou is pretty cute.

Does Elizabeth really go by Lizzy now?  I also wondered if the Uber driver let her ride with that beautiful dog.  And that poor dog was scared shitless by the screaming too, poor thing.

Maybe 'Lizzy' pretended that she needed to be rescued or something and her now husband bought into it.  She certainly married well, financially at least.  I hope she gets at least five years in jail.  I worry it will be less.

I have also read that men who were heads of start ups have been accused of lying and fraud, but didn't receive much punishment.  I wish who I could remember who Elizabeth was being compared to.  They brought up the question if Elizabeth was a man, would she have been found guilty.  

On 4/8/2022 at 8:33 PM, xaxat said:

On Carreyrou's podcast he said that legal experts estimated her legal defense could have cost as much at ten million dollars. And that's before an appeal.

From what I understand, an insurance company is paying for her legal defense, so she's not paying for it out of pocket.  I'm not sure if they cover the appeal although it sounds like if not, she's certainly got the wealth to pay for it.

I wonder how she is as a mom.  I hope people watch out for her daughter, because I truly think Elizabeth is psychotic and I fear for her daughter.

Erika Cheung is a badass.  Tyler too, because it can't be easy to stand up to his grandfather.  Both David Boies and George Schultz sullied their name with their association with Elizabeth/Theranos.

Edited April 10, 2022 by KLJ

[MrsR]

She named her dog Balto. After a famous Siberian husky which lead a sled team on a lifesaving run to deliver a diptheria cure in Alaska in 1925.

She even managed to tarnish an actual hero with her medical fraud obsession.

I hate this f@&%&@g bitch.

Amanda was top notch.

[Cinnabon]

53 minutes ago, KLJ said:

She absolutely did!  Usually I still see the actor when they are portraying a real-life person.  But here, Amanda just completely becomes Elizabeth and was freaking amazing.  

I have no sympathy for real Linda, she knew what she was doing. Plus she went back to the Boies firm after Theranos when she worked prior, though she recently left.

The actor portraying John Carreyrou is pretty cute.

Does Elizabeth really go by Lizzy now?  I also wondered if the Uber driver let her ride with that beautiful dog.  And that poor dog was scared shitless by the screaming too, poor thing.

Maybe 'Lizzy' pretended that she needed to be rescued or something and her now husband bought into it.  She certainly married well, financially at least.  I hope she gets at least five years in jail.  I worry it will be less.

I have also read that men who were heads of start ups have been accused of lying and fraud, but didn't receive much punishment.  I wish who I could remember who Elizabeth was being compared to.  They brought up the question if Elizabeth was a man, would she have been found guilty.  

From what I understand, an insurance company is paying for her legal defense, so she's not paying for it out of pocket.  I'm not sure if they cover the appeal although it sounds like if not, she's certainly got the wealth to pay for it.

I wonder how she is as a mom.  I hope people watch out for her daughter, because I truly think Elizabeth is psychotic and I fear for her daughter.

Erika Cheung is a badass.  Tyler too, because it can't be easy to stand up to his grandfather.  Both David Boies and George Schultz sullied their name with their association with Elizabeth/Theranos.

An insurance company? Why???

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, KLJ said:

I have also read that men who were heads of start ups have been accused of lying and fraud, but didn't receive much punishment.  I wish who I could remember who Elizabeth was being compared to.  They brought up the question if Elizabeth was a man, would she have been found guilty. 

I think the difference was that none of the men in question had healthcare startups - although Elizabeth ultimately wasn't convicted for defrauding patients, only investors. And even though some of them were terrible CEOs, they had viable business models, so they were fired but their respective companies (e.g. Uber, WeWork) are still operating.

[Carolina Girl]

In 2020 a judge certified a class action by the consumers against Holmes and Walgreens.  I’ve been trying to find out updates but I’d assume it was stayed until the criminal action was completed.  

[SunnyBeBe]

I can see insurance paying for civil defense, but in a criminal case where there is intent to do wrong insurance usually doesn’t cover it.  

[Johnny Dollar]

In cases like this, the insurance policy covers the costs of the defense. I don’t believe they would cover monetary damages from a civil suit.

Even though her new husband is from San Diego, they decided to live in a rented house on a $150 million estate in Northern California. One final “fuck you” to the Silicon Valley crowd.

On his podcast, Carreyrou spoke of discovering that EH kept showering Schulz with company stock over the years. At one point his shares were worth $40 million. That must be the going rate for abandoning your only grandson.

Phyllis Gardner, the Laurie Metcalf character, said that EH surrounded herself with rich old white guys who thought with their dicks. I would’ve liked to see more of the relationship between Phyllis and Fuisz.

 

[Wiendish Fitch]

3 hours ago, Johnny Dollar said:

Phyllis Gardner, the Laurie Metcalf character, said that EH surrounded herself with rich old white guys who thought with their dicks. I would’ve liked to see more of the relationship between Phyllis and Fuisz.

Look, I just want a bangin' Phyllis Gardner docuseries that's just five hours of this woman being awesome, is that asking so much?!?!

It is, isn't it? Well, I can dream.

Moving along, my husband and I were a tad disappointed that the final episode never mentioned that Elizabeth Holmes not only named her dog Balto, but told everyone it was a wolf. 

My god, this fucking lady...

Edited April 10, 2022 by Wiendish Fitch

[AnnMarie17]

On 4/7/2022 at 11:58 PM, chocolatine said:

 I mean, he *is* a creep and an asshole, but in the moment when he realized that she could ruin his life without hesitation, I felt a nanotainer's worth of pity for him.

I see what you did there and I give it solid applause.  Well done!

[Nancybeth]

I let out a delighted "Hey It's That Guy" squeal when the character Gary Yamamoto showed up -- he was played by Ed (Peter James Smith) of "Ed and Larry" fame from "The West Wing"! 

I wanted more Phyllis Gardner, more Tyler and Erika, more John Carryrou and his kick-ass editor...just more of everyone other than Elizabeth and Sunny.

[peachmangosteen]

3 hours ago, Nancybeth said:

I wanted more Phyllis Gardner, more Tyler and Erika, more John Carryrou and his kick-ass editor...just more of everyone other than Elizabeth and Sunny.

This! I almost wish the show had been about those people discovering and ending the fraud rather than about EH and the fraud itself.

[qtpye]

On 4/10/2022 at 1:48 PM, Wiendish Fitch said:

Look, I just want a bangin' Phyllis Gardner docuseries that's just five hours of this woman being awesome, is that asking so much?!?!

It is, isn't it? Well, I can dream.

Moving along, my husband and I were a tad disappointed that the final episode never mentioned that Elizabeth Holmes not only named her dog Balto, but told everyone it was a wolf. 

My god, this fucking lady...

She is also a brilliant scientist.

Quote

She developed several forms of slow released medication, including an adaptation for retention in the stomach.

Phyllis is what Elizabeth Holmes pretended to be.

[LuvMyShows]

On 4/7/2022 at 4:29 PM, slowpoked said:

What I would have loved to see this series delve into more is the actual rolling out of the Wellness Centers in Walgreens. Most of what we got was the power struggle between securing the Walgreens contract, and then just a weak text message that WAG wasn't happy when the article came out?! I would have loved to see the machines working (or not), patients and doctors being confused about their results, and then Walgreens eventually putting two and two together, with the knockout punch of the release of the article. Then Walgreens having to shut down their own wellness centers. That would have really driven home the danger that EH put innocent people through.

I agree 100%.  And although I really enjoyed the series, I wonder what prompted their dramatic choices and their viewpoint, in terms of what to leave out.

[IntrovertRed]

On 4/10/2022 at 9:24 AM, Johnny Dollar said:

Phyllis Gardner, the Laurie Metcalf character, said that EH surrounded herself with rich old white guys who thought with their dicks. I would’ve liked to see more of the relationship between Phyllis and Fuisz.

That is one thing that I didn't know, that Phyllis worked with Fuisz.  If only they had video of that.

I'm surprised the deal with Safeway and Steve Burd was never mentioned.  He was another guy taken in by her and Safeway sunk millions towards their own wellness centers.  Burd is referred to often in the Bad Blood book.

 

[Cinnabon]

1 hour ago, LuvMyShows said:

I agree 100%.  And although I really enjoyed the series, I wonder what prompted their dramatic choices and their viewpoint, in terms of what to leave out.

I just finished Carreyrou’s book, and he goes into the Walgreens and Safeway deals in some depth. I highly recommend it if you’re still interested in that part of the story. 

[TV Diva Queen]

On 4/9/2022 at 11:10 PM, Cinnabon said:

An insurance company? Why???

I doubt that a risk management insurance company is paying for a criminal charge.  Maybe they're fronting the attorney fees and if she's found guilty they want their money back.  Worked for a CEO of a HUGE medical center (15k employees) and that just doesn't make sense to me.  

[Cinnabon]

37 minutes ago, TV Diva Queen said:

I doubt that a risk management insurance company is paying for a criminal charge.  Maybe they're fronting the attorney fees and if she's found guilty they want their money back.  Worked for a CEO of a HUGE medical center (15k employees) and that just doesn't make sense to me.  

It surprises me, because we’re talking about a multi million dollar defense. I can’t imagine an insurance company covering all that, but I’m also completely unfamiliar with all of this. 

[Bluesky]

On 4/8/2022 at 9:11 AM, SnapHappy said:

Amanda kept morphing between an older Dakota Fanning and a younger Jodie Foster for me, in her looks.  Especially when professionally dressed and made up.  She really took me FAR away from the real Amanda & nailed the sociopath persona so chillingly.  

 

The actress really got the look down and the awkward speech and movement.   Does the actress have a massive underbite or did she have some type of device to make her mouth weird when she talked? 

[Bluesky]

On 4/8/2022 at 9:17 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

I wonder why they had the scene where Holmes is having a breakdown after her interview  and she looks at her mom and comments about her sexual assault in college. Like it was her mom’s fault.   Well, that’s just ridiculous and a deflection of her her own sociopathy.  It seemed the show was trying to justify her behavior with Theranos.

Shulz was a true a hole.  What a lunatic. I do wonder if he was a complete moron or suffering dementia.  

How so many people, so many men who have been around for decades, could think that a 19 year old high school graduate could possibly have the knowledge to make this machine that could change health care.  Completely illogical.  Of course who knew that she was capable of lying, cheating, bullying and threatening anyone who tried to tell the truth.  

It took me a couple of episodes to realize who Schultz was.  Terrible casting on that one. 

[SunnyBeBe]

13 hours ago, Bluesky said:

The actress really got the look down and the awkward speech and movement.   Does the actress have a massive underbite or did she have some type of device to make her mouth weird when she talked? 

I’m not sure.  This actress has always talked that way, imo.  For those who aren’t familiar with her….she was in the main cast of a show on HBO called Big Love when she was younger. She played a teen, but was actually in her 20s.  I recall thinking then how she had such a unique look about her. Also, in the cast was Chloe Sevigny, Jean Tripplehorn and Bill Paxton.  Awesome show, if you have time.  

Edited April 18, 2022 by SunnyBeBe

[larapu2000]

On 4/17/2022 at 9:20 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

I’m not sure.  This actress has always talked that way, imo.  For those who aren’t familiar with her….she was in the main cast of a show on HBO called Big Love when she was younger. She played a teen, but was actually in her 20s.  I recall thinking then how she had such a unique look about her. Also, in the cast was Chloe Sevigny, Jean Tripplehorn and Bill Paxton.  Awesome show, if you have time.  

Ummmmmm.  She's literally a movie star now.  She was in Mamma Mia.  She was in Les Miserables.  She was in Mean Girls.  She has had a starring role in multiple movies (the ones I listed are the blockbuster ones).  I would think most people are familiar with her, and not likely due to her role in Big Love (which WAS a great show!)

[Lovecat]

On 4/25/2022 at 11:06 AM, larapu2000 said:

Ummmmmm.  She's literally a movie star now.  She was in Mamma Mia.  She was in Les Miserables.  She was in Mean Girls.  She has had a starring role in multiple movies (the ones I listed are the blockbuster ones).  I would think most people are familiar with her, and not likely due to her role in Big Love (which WAS a great show!)

She was also nominated for a freaking Oscar for her role in Mank!

[fountain]

I never followed Theranos at the peak so it is hard to see what charm Elizabeth has, as by the time I really took a look, the downfall had occurred so in hindsight you see the red flags. I liked the series but think they made Amanda too attractive and didn't do the crazy makeup and fuzzy hair enough there near the end. At one point there, Elizabeth looked more like Tammy Faye and I recall times when it seemed her red lipstick was smudged and messy. I thought the "crazy inventor" was a calculated part of her look. Afterall, at trial she had normal hair and makeup.

I think the show did a decent job of the story. It was a bit rushed at the end. Amanda got a lot of the odd facial movements down pat, the voice wasn't low enough but that was likely a challenge as there was a lot going on in Elizabeth's mannerisms.

I hope Elizabeth gets some time. I doubt it will be 20 years though. It sucks they brought a kid into this bullshit. I certainly can believe it was calculated. Billy must be a piece of work too but then again people send love letters to Scott Peterson in prison so there have always been people attracted to criminals. Maybe he thinks he can change her or she actually loves him and he is above the con. Or maybe like Sonny he is a conman too.

ETA some of the difference between Elizabeth and other startup "frauds" is that she took money from rich old men and those are less likely to let it go and move on with their lives. If you go the VC route you are a bit protected from the fact that VC's know they will have some losers and if they sue their startups they will be less likely to get the next Facebook opportunity. It worked well for Elizabeth to con the men she did but I doubt if she went the traditional VC route it would have gone as it did. Her best con was of Sonny and his bail out, she was dead in the water without that.

 

Edited April 27, 2022 by fountain

[Cinnabon]

6 hours ago, fountain said:

I never followed Theranos at the peak so it is hard to see what charm Elizabeth has, as by the time I really took a look, the downfall had occurred so in hindsight you see the red flags. I liked the series but think they made Amanda too attractive and didn't do the crazy makeup and fuzzy hair enough there near the end. At one point there, Elizabeth looked more like Tammy Faye and I recall times when it seemed her red lipstick was smudged and messy. I thought the "crazy inventor" was a calculated part of her look. Afterall, at trial she had normal hair and makeup.

I think the show did a decent job of the story. It was a bit rushed at the end. Amanda got a lot of the odd facial movements down pat, the voice wasn't low enough but that was likely a challenge as there was a lot going on in Elizabeth's mannerisms.

I hope Elizabeth gets some time. I doubt it will be 20 years though. It sucks they brought a kid into this bullshit. I certainly can believe it was calculated. Billy must be a piece of work too but then again people send love letters to Scott Peterson in prison so there have always been people attracted to criminals. Maybe he thinks he can change her or she actually loves him and he is above the con. Or maybe like Sonny he is a conman too.

ETA some of the difference between Elizabeth and other startup "frauds" is that she took money from rich old men and those are less likely to let it go and move on with their lives. If you go the VC route you are a bit protected from the fact that VC's know they will have some losers and if they sue their startups they will be less likely to get the next Facebook opportunity. It worked well for Elizabeth to con the men she did but I doubt if she went the traditional VC route it would have gone as it did. Her best con was of Sonny and his bail out, she was dead in the water without that.

 

I think she did try more traditional VCs at the very beginning and they shot her down, so she moved on to the rich white older men.  I also have never seen the great appeal of her. She’s pretty, but no more so than many other women. I read that Billy was completely enamored of her from the moment they met (just as Theranos was exposed), and I still have no idea why. She must have charms that are hidden to most of us, lol.

[txhorns79]

On 4/8/2022 at 11:37 AM, Pi237 said:

She also used a much higher-pitched voice when talking to the Uber driver and her new boyfriend.  She didn’t see what she did as lying, at all. It was just a persona she put on, and when that version lost everything, she just slipped it off like it wasn’t actually her. So bizarre. 

Yeah, I saw that as her taking her mother's earlier advice about compartmentalizing the sexual assault to it's extreme.  The "Theranos" version of Elizabeth was some other person who did all those bad things.  She's just fun loving "Lizzy" now.  She has a new dog and boyfriend, and she's just looking to enjoy life.   

And I know it never happened in real life, but I did kind of wish there was a scene of George Shultz groveling for forgiveness before Tyler.   

[Crs97]

I wish John Carreyrou had responded to George Schultz along the lines of “your grandson got his good name back when the truth came out.  It’s your reputation that’s in tatters now.”

[Hedgehog2022]

Elizabeth Holmes might be on the Spectrum...she may have Asperger's...not that this a reason for any sympathy for her sociopathic behavior and all the damage that she did to people and the company. But it explain some of her odd and narcisstic behaviors. She certainly knew how to work old rich white guys....what a grift!

[qtpye]

On 9/13/2023 at 5:48 PM, Hedgehog2022 said:

Elizabeth Holmes might be on the Spectrum...she may have Asperger's...not that this a reason for any sympathy for her sociopathic behavior and all the damage that she did to people and the company. But it explain some of her odd and narcisstic behaviors. She certainly knew how to work old rich white guys....what a grift!

Young rich guys, too.

Her current husband comes from a rich family and is an MIT grad.

I have no idea he would attach himself to a known liar.

[Kel Varnsen]

Finished the series tonight and I thought it was really interesting in that it showed the whole venture capital/investor world wouldn't really work for something that was almost a pure R&D thing. Because it seems like they were caught in this whole snowball of needing money to pay everything but there is no actual money coming in, so you constantly need to find new and bigger investors to give you more money and attract even bigger investors. But you need to convince them that a company that has no revenue has value so you need to keep grifting and peddling bullshit. It seems like if they were just doing pure research without the worry about investors (like a university or something) they might have come up with something. But they were 10 years in and couldn't even keep the thing from blowing up.

Although it was weird how Elizabeth wanted her company to be run like an internet company but ignored how a lot of the big guys built their companies. Google started by just doing search, and only expanded to other stuff like Gmail and maps once they had that nailed. Same with Amazon how they just sold books at first so they could become the biggest bookseller then expanded to other products and then other services. Even Netflix did the mail dvd thing so that they could perfect their recommendations algorithm before they launched streaming. It seems like if she had went with a machine that did one or two tests instead of dozens, it might have had a chance.

One thing I did wonder about was Linda and how she couldn't find another job after working for Elizabeth. Was that real though? I mean there are a lot of lawyers who have defended a lot of people way worse than Elizabeth and they keep finding jobs. It's kind of a stereotype. So why couldn't she.

On 4/9/2022 at 2:25 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

and then when Sunny pushed her box to the ground and she said "Okay.  Bye."  😐.  Emmy sealed.  Done deal.

That Okay bye was pretty great, both the acting and how funny it was. Although I can't believe Sunny walked away so easily, especially after sinking $20 million into the company. 

I did like how Tyler and Erika kind of went all in buy going on the record like they did. Because it seems like at that point the only way to stop all the legal threats and harassment is to completely nuke the company from orbit so they have no resources left to go after you.

Edited April 14 by Kel Varnsen