S01.E08: Lizzy

[AntFTW]

Quote

In the wake of the Wall Street Journal article, Elizabeth and Sunny face a reckoning.

Air date: April 7, 2022

[BeatrixK]

Seyfried:  DAYUM, girl!  Way to stick the landing!   And 'Lizzie' is mindblowingly delusional - almost moreso than 'Elizabeth.'

But Seyfriends final scene - which I believe was one long take, making it more impressive - is brilliant and bonkers and chilling AF.  And she absolutely nails what could have been a comic fail. (Jennifer Lawrence is playing her in a movie adaptation:  That bar just got elevated, girl.)

George Schultz...I imagine realizing your legacy is for naught because you got taken in - and the fact you got taken is ALL public knowledge - would sting to the point your pride wouldn't let you do anything but hold firm.  But I was surprised to learn it was a LOT more of his family that were on the right side of it and it was a major family rift and not isolated to Tyler's parents.

Shout out to Andrews...for making me feel a teeeeeeny bit sorry for the way Sonny got totally blindsided and booted to the curb.  Hard to eek sympathy out for such a terrible person, but Andrews delivers!

 

[AntFTW]

Sunny to EH: But where will you live?

Me:

Edited April 7, 2022 by AntFTW

[AntFTW]

This show makes the word “fucking” sound so powerful. Earlier in the season the Walgreens exec says “we’re fucking Walgreens and we’re walking” and now I feel like Walgreens should say that for every deal they walk away from. In this episode, Erika Cheung writes a letter to “C-M-fucking-S”, the “boring” federal agency, and I feel like CMS’s tagline should be “C-M-fucking-S.” That doesn’t sound boring, now does it? 🤣

10 hours ago, BeatrixK said:

Seyfried:  DAYUM, girl!  Way to stick the landing!   And 'Lizzie' is mindblowingly delusional - almost moreso than 'Elizabeth.'

She absolutely stuck the landing. Amanda Seyfried wrapped it up perfectly. She was really intense this episode. I’m not sure if real-life EH was as intense but Amanda Seyfried made it work. The confrontation between EH and Sunny when she asks if Sunny talked to a lawyer was EPIC! Amanda’s eyes looked like they had heat seeking missiles and they were going for the kill.

10 hours ago, BeatrixK said:

Shout out to Andrews...for making me feel a teeeeeeny bit sorry for the way Sonny got totally blindsided and booted to the curb.  Hard to eek sympathy out for such a terrible person, but Andrews delivers!

I felt a teensy bit sorry for Sunny because it’s like EH got to move on. I don’t mean that just in their romantic relationship, but in general. It seemed like she just got to put the whole Theranos saga in her rear view and not look back meanwhile everyone else is dealing with the blowback. People got medical scares that they spent time and money on that they can’t get back. The in-house counsel says she couldn’t find a job because no one would hire her with the stink of Theranos on her (and I imagine that to be true for other employees as well).
 

It’s like other people had to deal with the blowback of being attached to Theranos in some way, and were  forced to deal with it because society ensures they are reminded of it with each job interview for employees and patients who had to be retested for various things and deal the costs of doing that… and EH got to move on to a new boyfriend and be in bliss. Sure, she feels sad because the company failed but that’s it. Obviously, we know that she eventually was investigated, indicted and found guilty of some things but I still get the feeling she’ll get a slap on the wrist.

Edited April 7, 2022 by AntFTW

[Zima]

I really enjoyed this mini series, and am kind of sorry to see it end! Honestly, I would have stuck around for 2 more episodes. I felt like this finale was a bit rushed, and the events could have been expanded on a bit more. Also, I would have loved to have seen a few scenes dedicated to a delusional "Lizzie" at Burning Man, followed by the formal dissolution process of Theranos about a week later 🤣 That level of willful dissociation is just WILD to me. 

Amanda Seyfried knocked this out of the park. I like Jennifer Lawrence, but this is going to be an almost impossible act to follow IMO. 

[SonofaBiscuit]

The best part of this episode was Erika insisting on sending the signed letter to CMS, that agency investigating the complaint, and then CMS actually shutting down Theranos' labs for two years. Bwah ha ha ha! I love that Carreyrou just wanted to immediately call Erika and let her know that this was happening because of her and she had saved people's lives. Lovely. I must buy his book soon!

OMG, Linda's reaction to that terrible, cringey interview. "That was good!" I mean, I don't know. Personally, I think it could have used like three more "devastatings." The worst part is that even though I have never seen that interview, I know if I go searching for it, that will be exactly how it played out. Yikes!

I am glad that Tyler had the support of at least some of his family (enough so that is caused a rift). Grandpa Schultz kinda sucked. He didn't even apologize, and he seemed mostly concerned with the entire scandal besmirching the Schultz name. I mean, did it not register that people were getting wildly inaccurate blood test results, thinking (according to the screen at the end of the episode) that they were HIV positive, had cancer, miscarried, etc.? How freaking awful.

It's hard to believe that there's a man out there that would spend five minutes Googling Elizabeth Holmes' name and think, "Yes, this woman is girlfriend/mother material!😍" People are freaking nuts!

[slowpoked]

Ah, I wish it had one or two more episodes. I would have liked more details on the eventual fall of Theranos. The book had some very gruesome details about it. Would have loved to see those come alive on the screen. Would have loved to see more of Carreyrou's investigation. 

Also - "nanotainer"!!! HA! Was this the first episode the term was used?! Because I remember that while it wasn't a significant part of the book, it was mentioned a few times, and mostly to poke fun at it because it's such a funny word. 

Those last few scenes with Sunny and Linda really describe EH to the core - just a whole narcissistic vessel of empty. She's never shown remorse on everything that she did, and even insists to this day that her invention would have worked, it was just that the whole word conspired against it. Even though she was icky when she was Theranos' lawyer (what corporate lawyers aren't icky anyway), I do feel bad for Linda - at least she had some self-awareness that it's her fault because she bought in heart and soul into the cult. 

[BeatrixK]

42 minutes ago, SonofaBiscuit said:

The best part of this episode was Erika insisting on sending the signed letter to CMS, that agency investigating the complaint, and then CMS actually shutting down Theranos' labs for two years. Bwah ha ha ha! I love that Carreyrou just wanted to immediately call Erika and let her know that this was happening because of her and she had saved people's lives. Lovely. I must buy his book soon!

OMG, Linda's reaction to that terrible, cringey interview. "That was good!" I mean, I don't know. Personally, I think it could have used like three more "devastatings." The worst part is that even though I have never seen that interview, I know if I go searching for it, that will be exactly how it played out. Yikes!

I am glad that Tyler had the support of at least some of his family (enough so that is caused a rift). Grandpa Schultz kinda sucked. He didn't even apologize, and he seemed mostly concerned with the entire scandal besmirching the Schultz name. I mean, did it not register that people were getting wildly inaccurate blood test results, thinking (according to the screen at the end of the episode) that they were HIV positive, had cancer, miscarried, etc.? How freaking awful.

It's hard to believe that there's a man out there that would spend five minutes Googling Elizabeth Holmes' name and think, "Yes, this woman is girlfriend/mother material!😍" People are freaking nuts!

If you have HBO Max, check out the documentary:  The Inventor - Out for Blood in Silicon Valley.  Several of the real people portrayed in the miniseries are interviewed in it - including Erica and Tyler.  They show a small snippit of that interview - and the few seconds show it having a 'thud' as you would expect.

End did feel a bit rushed - but her trial just ended in Jannuary and Suny's is just into jury selection - so they didn't have much to work with.

Her going from that green juice black suit bullshit to earthy, dog lover outdoor type - 180 much, you fraudulent sack of carbon?  She's just sitting there talking about having fun with her life to a woman who is desperately trying to convey - Working for you has finished me...can I not hear about you having fun and going to burning man?'  When Elizabeth had no handlers at her disposal, you see that woman couldn't read a room to save her life. 

I hope the judge gives her the maximum sentence - but she will probably do 5 tops.

[Cinnabon]

6 hours ago, BeatrixK said:

Shout out to Andrews...for making me feel a teeeeeeny bit sorry for the way Sonny got totally blindsided and booted to the curb.  Hard to eek sympathy out for such a terrible person, but Andrews delivers!

I felt the same way. For all of his faults, I think he had real feelings for her, but she is just an emotionless bot. Even he didn’t deserve that treatment.

[Cinnabon]

2 hours ago, AntFTW said:

This show makes the word “fucking” sound so powerful. Earlier in the season the Walgreens exec says “we’re fucking Walgreens and we’re walking” and now I feel like Walgreens should say that for every deal they walk away from. In this episode, Erika Cheung writes a letter to “C-M-fucking-S”, the “boring” federal agency, and I feel like CMS’s tagline should be “C-M-fucking-S.” That doesn’t sound boring, now does it? 🤣

She absolutely stuck the landing. Amanda Seyfried wrapped it up perfectly. She was really intense this episode. I’m not sure if real-life EH was as intense but Amanda Seyfried made it work. The confrontation between EH and Sunny when she asks if Sunny talked to a lawyer was EPIC! Amanda’s eyes looked like they had heat seeking missiles and they were going for the kill.

I felt a teensy bit sorry for Sunny because it’s like EH got to move on. I don’t mean that just in their romantic relationship, but in general. It seemed like she just got to put the whole Theranos saga in her rear view and not look back meanwhile everyone else is dealing with the blowback. People got medical scares that they spent time and money on that they can’t get back. The in-counsel says she couldn’t find a job because no one would hire her with the stink of Theranos on her (and I imagine that to be true for other employees as well).
 

It’s like other people had to deal with the blowback of being attached to Theranos in some way, and were  forced to deal with it because society ensures they are reminded of it with each job interview for employees and patients who had to be retested for various things and deal the costs of doing that… and EH got to move on to a new boyfriend and be in bliss. Sure, she feels sad because the company failed but that’s it. Obviously, we know that she eventually was investigated, indicted and found guilty of some things but I still get the feeling she’ll get a slap on the wrist.

Yes, I hope the sociopathic bitch gets jail time, and her husband divorces her and takes the kid. He has to be a better parent than a cold, unfeeling bot.

[slowpoked]

10 minutes ago, BeatrixK said:

When Elizabeth had no handlers at her disposal, you see that woman couldn't read a room to save her life. 

She's already bad EVEN with handlers! Sunny tried to "handle" her, and look at how that came out, for both of them. 

For someone who promoted #ironsisters, and who thrived on being one of the few women CEOs in Silicon Valley, it's rather odd she didn't have women on her board, that we know of, at least. Maybe that's her whole point, or powerful women were wise enough to stay away from something they could smell as fraud from far away, while men just fell helplessly into her inexplicable charms. 

[Cinnabon]

6 minutes ago, slowpoked said:

She's already bad EVEN with handlers! Sunny tried to "handle" her, and look at how that came out, for both of them. 

For someone who promoted #ironsisters, and who thrived on being one of the few women CEOs in Silicon Valley, it's rather odd she didn't have women on her board, that we know of, at least. Maybe that's her whole point, or powerful women were wise enough to stay away from something they could smell as fraud from far away, while men just fell helplessly into her inexplicable charms. 

I am sickened and enraged that she tried to paint herself as an ally to other women, and played the “they’re against me because they’re misogynists” card. No, they were exposing you as the fraud you were. And her cowardice and inability to come clean when questioned (I don’t recall, I don’t remember, ad nauseum) was also pathetic .

[dmeets]

Elizabeth giving Sunny the deep-voiced pep talk was great! I was hoping he'd call her out with a "don't use that voice on me." Loved seeing the two of them implode and turn on each other. I'm curious if we're going to hear any bombshells about her during Sunny's defense.

Her ex-lawyer trying to lecture her at the end irritated me. She saw what happened with Ian and the way Elizabeth reacted. Why are you expecting remorse, empathy, or any indication of humanity whatsoever from her now?

Hopefully her parents took a good long look at themselves. They raised and coddled a sociopath, while their other kid is, as far as I can tell, a colossal douche.

Her shift in demeanor when Uber pulled up was chilling. She's an android wearing human skin. 

"I now love Government Bureaucracy and I don't care who knows it!" Hee.

[ShelleySue]

I wish that I could find an unedited version of this. My eternal gratitude for anyone who can find one.

1 hour ago, slowpoked said:

Even though she was icky when she was Theranos' lawyer (what corporate lawyers aren't icky anyway), I do feel bad for Linda - at least she had some self-awareness that it's her fault because she bought in heart and soul into the cult. 

I'm a corporate lawyer, but I won't take that personally.

56 minutes ago, slowpoked said:

For someone who promoted #ironsisters, and who thrived on being one of the few women CEOs in Silicon Valley, it's rather odd she didn't have women on her board, that we know of, at least. Maybe that's her whole point, or powerful women were wise enough to stay away from something they could smell as fraud from far away, while men just fell helplessly into her inexplicable charms. 

That's exactly what it was.  She was able to charm the older white men.  They were blinded by her.  I'm not sure how much of the series was fictionalized and how much was factual, but the scene in which she phoned everyone on the board (in this episode) and convinced them to stick with her was very telling. Sonny never could have done that.

 

2 hours ago, SonofaBiscuit said:

 

It's hard to believe that there's a man out there that would spend five minutes Googling Elizabeth Holmes' name and think, "Yes, this woman is girlfriend/mother material!😍" People are freaking nuts!

Billy's parents aren't too happy about the relationship. 

[Cinnabon]

34 minutes ago, ShelleySue said:

I wish that I could find an unedited version of this. My eternal gratitude for anyone who can find one.

I'm a corporate lawyer, but I won't take that personally.

That's exactly what it was.  She was able to charm the older white men.  They were blinded by her.  I'm not sure how much of the series was fictionalized and how much was factual, but the scene in which she phoned everyone on the board (in this episode) and convinced them to stick with her was very telling. Sonny never could have done that.

 

Billy's parents aren't too happy about the relationship. 

Interesting. I still don’t know what he sees in her. The article said he married her because “he wanted to raise his profile.” WTF? Negative attention maybe. He’s already wealthy so I can’t imagine how being married to her will benefit him that way. 

[QQQQ]

I'm confused and it might be because I know nothing about the scandal aside from this miniseries, but at the end of the final episode they listed three or four times Theranos delivered erroneous lab findings. I guess I was expecting thousands and thousands of mistakes... I'm sure I missed something 😅

Edited April 7, 2022 by QQQQ

[dmeets]

3 minutes ago, QQQQ said:

I'm confused and it might be because I know nothing about the scandal aside from this miniseries, but at the end of the final episode they listed three or four times Theranos delivered erroneous lab findings. I guess I was expecting thousands and thousands of mistakes... I'm sure I missed something 😅

I think they just highlighted the most egregious errors. Few things would be more terrifying than thinking you had HIV, cancer, or a miscarriage. And then to later find out, oops never mind!

Difficult to guess how many people ended up mistakenly thinking they had herpes.

[slowpoked]

2 hours ago, BeatrixK said:

End did feel a bit rushed - but her trial just ended in Jannuary and Suny's is just into jury selection - so they didn't have much to work with.

What I would have loved to see this series delve into more is the actual rolling out of the Wellness Centers in Walgreens. Most of what we got was the power struggle between securing the Walgreens contract, and then just a weak text message that WAG wasn't happy when the article came out?! I would have loved to see the machines working (or not), patients and doctors being confused about their results, and then Walgreens eventually putting two and two together, with the knockout punch of the release of the article. Then Walgreens having to shut down their own wellness centers. That would have really driven home the danger that EH put innocent people through.

23 minutes ago, dmeets said:

Difficult to guess how many people ended up mistakenly thinking they had herpes.

In the book, there was a considerable discussion about the herpes (or maybe it's syphilis)  samples and tests being really screwed up, with one batch having 99% (or some other really high alarming number) of patients being positive for the STD. 

1 hour ago, ShelleySue said:

I'm a corporate lawyer, but I won't take that personally.

Being that you're here with us, I'm sure you are an exception to the rule. 🙂

[BeatrixK]

18 minutes ago, slowpoked said:

 

In the book, there was a considerable discussion about the herpes (or maybe it's syphilis)  samples and tests being really screwed up, with one batch having 99% (or some other really high alarming number) of patients being positive for the STD. 

Being that you're here with us, I'm sure you are an exception to the rule. 🙂

In one of the documentaries, Tyler Schultz quips that 'If people are using Theranos machines to correctly diagnose syphilis...well, there's about to be a lot more syphilis in this world.'

I don't recall seeing the letter George Schultz had published - did that really happen? 

[dungeonwriter]

Gary Yamamoto is officially the greatest character. MVP. I mean, seriously, the sheer coolness of "No." Just no. He doesn't need to see the presentation. Just bring him the facts and let him enjoy his snack. He can't be charmed. He can't be shmoozed. He can't be browbeaten. 

"We're contacting your superiors." Karens want to see the manager? Gary says there's no one to talk to. He has a checklist and he's going to get it done and he's not interested in your excuses. Because he is Gary the God of Red Tape. 

 

[SoMuchTV]

3 hours ago, slowpoked said:

Those last few scenes with Sunny and Linda really describe EH to the core - just a whole narcissistic vessel of empty. She's never shown remorse on everything that she did, and even insists to this day that her invention would have worked, it was just that the whole word conspired against it. Even though she was icky when she was Theranos' lawyer (what corporate lawyers aren't icky anyway), I do feel bad for Linda - at least she had some self-awareness that it's her fault because she bought in heart and soul into the cult. 

 

2 hours ago, ShelleySue said:

I'm a corporate lawyer, but I won't take that personally.

 

2 hours ago, dmeets said:

"I now love Government Bureaucracy and I don't care who knows it!" Hee.

Hey, if we can find it in our hearts to love government bureaucracy, then I think we can find some space for corporate lawyers!

[peachmangosteen]

2 hours ago, dmeets said:

Her ex-lawyer trying to lecture her at the end irritated me. She saw what happened with Ian and the way Elizabeth reacted. Why are you expecting remorse, empathy, or any indication of humanity whatsoever from her now?

Yea, I had a hard time feeling for her, too. I mean, she obviously knew what was going on but she still stayed so.

47 minutes ago, slowpoked said:

What I would have loved to see this series delve into more is the actual rolling out of the Wellness Centers in Walgreens. Most of what we got was the power struggle between securing the Walgreens contract, and then just a weak text message that WAG wasn't happy when the article came out?! I would have loved to see the machines working (or not), patients and doctors being confused about their results, and then Walgreens eventually putting two and two together, with the knockout punch of the release of the article. Then Walgreens having to shut down their own wellness centers. That would have really driven home the danger that EH put innocent people through.

I would have liked to have seen more of that, too. I think failing to really show just how much the fraudulent machines impacted real people in a negative way was a bad idea. 

I thought this last episode was Amanda Seyfried's best by a lot. I honestly wasn't that impressed with her until this ep. But she was so chilling in this episode and that is how I imagine the real Holmes to be.

[AntFTW]

19 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Yea, I had a hard time feeling for her, too. I mean, she obviously knew what was going on but she still stayed so.

When the money is flowing, nobody cares. She had a job and a decent salary, and she wanted to keep that going. That took priority over everything else.

[AntFTW]

2 hours ago, ShelleySue said:

That's exactly what it was.  She was able to charm the older white men.  They were blinded by her.  I'm not sure how much of the series was fictionalized and how much was factual, but the scene in which she phoned everyone on the board (in this episode) and convinced them to stick with her was very telling. Sonny never could have done that.

In that same scene, Sunny couldn't do it at all. I meant to comment on that scene in my earlier post but that contrast between Sonny phoning boardmembers and EH phoning boardmembers, I find it fascinating. Sonny is a wealthy guy in his own right with business experience and he seems to be having the tougher time on the phone, as opposed to a relative newcomer in business.

In the scene, he's angry and she's calm; he's going to voicemail and her calls are being answered; he can't convince someone to just call him back and she convinces the entire board to stand behind her.

That is striking to me.

[slowpoked]

14 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

When the money is flowing, nobody cares. She had a job and a decent salary, and she wanted to keep that going. That took priority over everything else.

I'm always weirdly fascinated by those types of people. Granted, we don't know if her lawyers stayed with her through the bitter end, or those final scenes were just a lot of cinematic licenses by the writers. But wouldn't you get away as soon as that godawful TV interview?! Why stay until she can't pay you anymore?

I understand Sunny staying, because obviously he has other reasons, but for rank and file workers, why would you stay till the ship has sunk. Why not get away with your dignity still intact, like Tyler and Erika? When do you start drawing the line and say, "hey, this isn't right, and we're hurting people...I can't be a part of this any longer"" I can't believe that money is just the sole motivating factor, but maybe it really is. 

Edited April 7, 2022 by slowpoked

[peachmangosteen]

15 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

When the money is flowing, nobody cares. She had a job and a decent salary, and she wanted to keep that going. That took priority over everything else.

And that's why I don't feel anything for her lol.

[AntFTW]

21 minutes ago, slowpoked said:

I understand Sunny staying, because obviously he has other reasons, but for rank and file workers, why would you stay till the ship has sunk.

Speaking from my own experience, sometimes people think the holes will be patched in the ship and things will get better. Personally, I didn't think that but many employees did. The very first job I had lasted for about 3.5 years, and honestly, it was a wreck from the start. I'm shocked that company lasted as long as it did. It was a small finance company with only about 25 employees. Our boss at the time was a mess but this man was like a cockroach. Somehow, he always survived. Just when you thought he lost and its over, and he was down and out, he always bounced back. It surprised me every time. He was a shitty businessman but he was extremely tenacious. Many of the employees had hope that his tenacity would come through and save the company, because it always had before. Many stayed until the bitter end, even helping to prepare the bankruptcy documents.

[Zima]

4 hours ago, dmeets said:

Her ex-lawyer trying to lecture her at the end irritated me. She saw what happened with Ian and the way Elizabeth reacted. Why are you expecting remorse, empathy, or any indication of humanity whatsoever from her now?

I feel the same way about the lawyer. It should have been super satisfying to see somebody come after Elizabeth like that, spitting truth and facts, but it felt ridiculously out of place coming from someone who was complicit in everything until it all came crashing down.

4 hours ago, QQQQ said:

I'm confused and it might be because I know nothing about the scandal aside from this miniseries, but at the end of the final episode they listed three or four times Theranos delivered erroneous lab findings. I guess I was expecting thousands and thousands of mistakes... I'm sure I missed something 😅

I am right there with you. My heart goes out to those three people who were severely harmed, but I couldn't help but think, "that's it?" After reading what other people have to say about it here, I think the impact of the ending would have been helped if there had been additional text listing the herpes, syphilis, and other misdiagnoses that occurred in larger numbers. 

Edited April 8, 2022 by Zima

[slowpoked]

4 hours ago, QQQQ said:

I guess I was expecting thousands and thousands of mistakes... I'm sure I missed something 😅

 

26 minutes ago, Zima said:

"that's it?" After reading what other people have to say about it here, I think the impact of the ending would have been helped if there had been additional text listing the herpes, syphilis, and other misdiagnoses that occurred in larger numbers. 

It mentioned that in the numerous incorrect lab reports from Theranos, among them are what was listed on the end credits. Those are the worst of the cases they have had. It's not just one false HIV test, nor one false miscarriage test. Those are just the most severe ones. The common ones, according to the book, were hypo/hyperthyroidism, syphilis, herpes, etc. I have had borderline hypothyroidism for 8 years now - I would absolutely panic if my blood panels show a really high number. 

That's why I think the series made a mistake in not showing the actual rollout of the wellness centers. That would show how much fucked up this whole thing was. 

5 hours ago, ShelleySue said:

I wish that I could find an unedited version of this. My eternal gratitude for anyone who can find one.

Is this the interview where last night's episode was based on?! If it is, I wonder why they didn't mention Maria Shriver and that it was from The Today Show, considering they have already been already mentioning famous people anyway who didn't appear on the series.

And my golly, watching that interview again made me remember her ridiculous, fake, made-up deep voice. Amanda did her best, but I don't think there's any actress in the world who can actually come close to that.

[QQQQ]

Ok, so I guess then the ending summary could have been worded differently than "among them are..." Perhaps "...it is estimated that 100,000 (or whatever #) inaccurate test results were given to patients, including..." and then give specific examples. I've had to have medical tests redone due to questionable initial results (including hypothyroidism and biopsies for breast cancer). It happens even when the science/process is sound.

Edited April 8, 2022 by QQQQ

[Madding crowd]

There were a lot of aspects to Theranos fraud not just giving wrong tests. The tests that were correct were not being done on Theranos machines, investors were lied to about what they invested in, unsafe working conditions etc. It is unknown how many inaccuracies would have been given if the labs were not shut down. There was also threats to employees and intimidation. 

[UnikornRainbowz]

12 hours ago, AntFTW said:

Sunny to EH: But where will you live?

Me:

That was his death knell lol, I knew once he said that she would dump him cold!

[gesundheit]

10 hours ago, Zima said:

I really enjoyed this mini series, and am kind of sorry to see it end! Honestly, I would have stuck around for 2 more episodes. I felt like this finale was a bit rushed, and the events could have been expanded on a bit more. Also, I would have loved to have seen a few scenes dedicated to a delusional "Lizzie" at Burning Man, followed by the formal dissolution process of Theranos about a week later 🤣 That level of willful dissociation is just WILD to me. 

This is the rare miniseries of this type that I wish had been longer. They really nailed this one. Just so well done, the others in this vein should take note (or rather the likely many, many more to come).

5 hours ago, AntFTW said:

When the money is flowing, nobody cares. She had a job and a decent salary, and she wanted to keep that going. That took priority over everything else.

I think sometimes people like that just get caught up in the thrill of a challenge like that, and when the dust settles they have time to think about what it all signified.

[Samsnee]

Disappointing finale. I hate how they tried to paint her as an innocent girl who was manipulated by Sunny and just wanted to help people but couldn’t deliver. 
 

There was no need to show her little under the cover silliness with her new boyfriend as a way to humanize her. 

Still a great series but wish they had shown more of the house of cards falling down around them. 

 

[gesundheit]

15 minutes ago, Samsnee said:

Disappointing finale. I hate how they tried to paint her as an innocent girl who was manipulated by Sunny and just wanted to help people but couldn’t deliver. 
 

There was no need to show her little under the cover silliness with her new boyfriend as a way to humanize her. 

Interesting, I got literally the exact opposite impression of both of those choices. I don't think she was depicted as manipulated by Sunny in the slightest, I think the show pretty well illustrated how they fed into and off of each other's awfulness. He just had the bankroll & the business acumen to enable it. In fact they definitely made a conscious choice not to include some of what Holmes herself had alleged about his treatment of her, when she tried to blame it on him. They even showed her turning ice cold and pretending to him that she hadn't known!

And the silliness with the new boyfriend seemed meant to show us how disgusting it was that she went on as if nothing happened, giggling like a dumb little schoolgirl in a new relationship, pretending like she wasn't a monster. It was chilling.

Edited April 8, 2022 by gesundheit

[ZeeEnnui]

25 minutes ago, Samsnee said:

Disappointing finale. I hate how they tried to paint her as an innocent girl who was manipulated by Sunny and just wanted to help people but couldn’t deliver. 
 

There was no need to show her little under the cover silliness with her new boyfriend as a way to humanize her. 

Still a great series but wish they had shown more of the house of cards falling down around them. 

 

Yeah, I saw this completely differently. The scene with Sunny in the office, Elizabeth reminded me of a snake looking to strike prey. She was taking George's words to heart, and basically began brainstorming a new narrative where Sunny was the bad guy that lied to her. I think Elizabeth is a stone cold sociopath but she needs a script to work with so that she can fully believe her own false reality. It's like method acting but for narcissistic robots. If we didn't know how the story ended, this would be the scene where Elizabeth murders Sunny but tries to claim that it was in self-defense until a dogged detective that doesn't play by the rules and isn't here for this start-up shit solves the case. Dun dun. 

While I would have loved another episode or two to wrap things up, I think the reason that they showed the silliness with the boyfriend was that this was Elizabeth (excuse me...Lizzie's) new persona. It was a big deal during the trial for her to find this new younger (...and dumber. Has to be dumb, right?) boyfriend who could knock her up in the hopes of playing the poor innocent blonde lady on the stand. Elizabeth isn't capable of human feeling but she is good at pretending to be what people need her to be in the most intense way possible. It didn't work with a jury, but we'll see what happens during sentencing. I hope they throw the Siemen's machine at her and lock her up for the max. 

I want to give all the awards to Amanda Seyfried and Naveen Andrews. They killed it.

Edited April 8, 2022 by ZeeEnnui

[chocolatine]

I had chills when Elizabeth oh-so-casually reminded Sunny that she was "barely 18" when she met him, and the realization dawning on his face that she will throw him under the bus if it helps her. I mean, he *is* a creep and an asshole, but in the moment when he realized that she could ruin his life without hesitation, I felt a nanotainer's worth of pity for him.

Given how well Elizabeth was able to fake emotion in front of her board members, I was surprised that she didn't even try to look "devastated" in the post-scandal interview.

One thing that didn't surprise me, on the other hand, was Billy being a Burner. I don't know why, but Silicon Valley bros just love Burning Man.

10 hours ago, SonofaBiscuit said:

It's hard to believe that there's a man out there that would spend five minutes Googling Elizabeth Holmes' name and think, "Yes, this woman is girlfriend/mother material!😍" People are freaking nuts!

 

8 hours ago, ShelleySue said:

Billy's parents aren't too happy about the relationship. 

I hope they're keeping tight reins on his trust fund. When Elizabeth gets out of prison (if she even has to serve), and her 10-year ban from running a company is up, we all know she'll try to use his money to start another company. 

[gesundheit]

16 minutes ago, ZeeEnnui said:

Yeah, I saw this completely differently. The scene with Sunny in the office, Elizabeth reminded me of a snake looking to strike prey. She was taking George's words to heart, and basically began brainstorming a new narrative where Sunny was the bad guy that lied to her. I think Elizabeth is a stone cold sociopath but she needs a script to work with so that she can fully believe her own false reality. It's like method acting but for narcissistic robots. If we didn't know how the story ended, this would be the scene where Elizabeth murders Sunny but tries to claim that it was in self-defense until a dogged detective that doesn't play by the rules and isn't here for this start-up shit solves the case. Dun dun. 

I mean, she literally compared herself to ROSA PARKS! They definitely wanted the audience to wish a building to collapse on her at that point. 

[SlovakPrincess]

Ok, I'm sad it's over.  This miniseries was actually that good.

Go Erika!  For realizing a boring bureaucracy is the one thing that Elizabeth and Theranos can't finesse their way around.  I loved that Carreyrou called her to let her know CMS had shut Theranos down.

Gary Yamamoto of CMS, for his minimal screen time -- I really enjoyed him.  "No.  I don't need to see a presentation.  I just need to see the labs.  No, there's nobody to call above me ... "  He could not have been less impressed by them LOL.  

The Schultz family scene was rough!  Poor Tyler, being rejected by his grandad like that.  The look on George's face when Elizabeth bombed the interview and he realized how wrong he'd been, the devastation on his face - Sam Waterston played that really well.  I'm sad George never apologized to Tyler, but at least he told him he'd done the right thing before he passed.  I hope the family rift healed.

The Elizabeth / Sunny scenes were very intense.  Great acting by both Andrews and Seyfried.  

I enjoyed Linda's slow realization that Elizabeth is nuts.  "Is there something wrong with you??"  Yes, Linda.  Yes there really is.  

Elizabeth screaming on the sidewalk -- Seyfried did a great job with that scene, and not many actresses could have pulled it off.  (The dog looked kind of embarrassed, though - hee).

I've heard about all the false (and alarming and upsetting) positive test results people got - where there any false NEGATIVES??  Like somebody thought they were fine, but later found out a Theranos test missed something serious?   That's what I would worry about.  

[wanderingstar]

Poor Tyler looked heartbroken when his grandfather told him to get out. 

Enjoyed seeing Tyler and Erika working together. Erika signing her name to that letter to CMS took a lot of guts. Good for her.

Elizabeth and Sunny's relationship will never not be jacked up to me. Their last couple of scenes were legit harrowing.

"I just fell in love with government bureaucracy, and I don't care who knows it!" lol

 

Edited April 8, 2022 by Gillian Rosh

[Johnny Dollar]

Giving “Linda”, the in-house counsel, a conscience at the last minute did not jibe with the facts. The actual company lawyer was a former law partner at David Boies’ firm and was just as ruthless and evil as he was. The way she abetted in the treatment of their employees and cover up for the fraud should be grounds for disbarment.

I wish there were additional episodes showing more of the effect on EH from the quick downfall of the company. Although that wouldn’t have been possible with the trial ending almost at the same time as the show starting. Or maybe some commentary on how a rich, blonde white woman who scammed hundreds of millions of dollars was allowed to remain out on bail during both the trial and the sentencing period and may never serve one day in prison. 

[SlovakPrincess]

Well, Linda mostly seemed to feel sorry for herself because of her ruined career, so that seemed to fit with her overall personality.

I think they did a fine job showing Elizabeth's delusion and how she quickly tried to reinvent herself as a fun loving free spirit once Theranos crashed, happy to paint Sunny as the only villain and the wreckage of Theranos as a good faith effort that just didn't work out.  

What I think was rushed was her relationship with Billy Evans.  Her undeserved happily ever after comes courtesy of finding a wealthy young guy who wants to date someone in the middle of a huge scandal and doesn't seem to mind her abrupt change from her public persona -- how on earth did that come about??   When did she find time to meet him?  

There is some serious irony in the fact that she portrayed herself as this scrappy feminist icon and, in the end, she's saved by becoming a rich man's wife.  

Edited April 8, 2022 by SlovakPrincess

[SnapHappy]

8 hours ago, chocolatine said:

I had chills when Elizabeth oh-so-casually reminded Sunny that she was "barely 18" when she met him, and the realization dawning on his face that she will throw him under the bus if it helps her. I mean, he *is* a creep and an asshole, but in the moment when he realized that she could ruin his life without hesitation, I felt a nanotainer's worth of pity for him.

I kept waiting for her to use the word "groom" in that conversation with him.  How he "groomed" her in so many manipulative ways.  The narrative that would paint him in the most criminal and exploitative light possible. 

 

[SnapHappy]

And my strange question for the end: Did the Uber guy let her in the car with her dog?  Do they have special Uber's that allow pets?  I've used it ONCE and have no idea.   It did show on her phone that she ordered an "Economy" class car.   In her bouts of delusion, she did have a few logical moves.  

Amanda kept morphing between an older Dakota Fanning and a younger Jodie Foster for me, in her looks.  Especially when professionally dressed and made up.  She really took me FAR away from the real Amanda & nailed the sociopath persona so chillingly.  

Maybe they can do a season 2 of her conviction, first years in jail & how everybody else ended up.  I would watch.  

Edited April 8, 2022 by SnapHappy

[gesundheit]

54 minutes ago, SnapHappy said:

And my strange question for the end: Did the Uber guy let her in the car with her dog?  Do they have special Uber's that allow pets?  I've used it ONCE and have no idea. 

Uber and Lyft both allow pets at the driver's discretion (since it's their car). I've ridden many times with dogs, and been turned down for dogs too!

[Pi237]

She also used a much higher-pitched voice when talking to the Uber driver and her new boyfriend.  She didn’t see what she did as lying, at all. It was just a persona she put on, and when that version lost everything, she just slipped it off like it wasn’t actually her. So bizarre. 

[AntFTW]

2 minutes ago, Pi237 said:

She also used a much higher-pitched voice when talking to the Uber driver and her new boyfriend.  She didn’t see what she did as lying, at all. It was just a persona she put on, and when that version lost everything, she just slipped it off like it wasn’t actually her. So bizarre. 

Perfectly summed up!

She slipped off the version that remembered everything, and slipped on a version that didn't know anything in her deposition.

[xaxat]

On 4/7/2022 at 3:48 PM, QQQQ said:

I'm confused and it might be because I know nothing about the scandal aside from this miniseries, but at the end of the final episode they listed three or four times Theranos delivered erroneous lab findings. I guess I was expecting thousands and thousands of mistakes... I'm sure I missed something 😅

I believe that the three instances listed were a reference to several people who the government called as witnesses at EH's trial. There were undoubtedly others who had erroneous tests, but these were documented in court.

 

 

Edited April 9, 2022 by xaxat

[dmc]

 

Seyfried...stellar acting...that scene with Sunny is chilling, the one with her parents is also amazing...

 

[chocolatine]

7 hours ago, SlovakPrincess said:

There is some serious irony in the fact that she portrayed herself as this scrappy feminist icon and, in the end, she's saved by becoming a rich man's wife.  

Technically, she wouldn't have even gotten that far with Theranos if it weren't for a romantic relationship with a rich man. The board was about to fire her early on (I think it was 2007 or 2008), and she saved herself by bringing Sunny and his $20M investment into the company.

ETA: That's why I said upthread that I hope Billy's family has control over his trust fund. Billy doesn't seem nearly as intelligent as Sunny, so I'm sure he'll happily give "Lizzy" all his money unless the trust is set up in a way that he can't make large withdrawals.

Edited April 8, 2022 by chocolatine