S01.E05: Flower of Life

[CrystalBlue]

Quote

With the Walgreens deadline looming, Elizabeth and Sunny scramble to find solutions to their technological failures; Ian is drawn into Elizabeth's lawsuit against Richard.

Air date: March 17, 2022

I thought I couldn't hate Elizabeth any more, but now I do.

Edited March 17, 2022 by CrystalBlue

[bluegirl147]

4 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

I thought I couldn't hate Elizabeth any more, but now I do.

With regards to Ian I knew it was coming but it was still so very sad.

The walls are starting to close in on Elizabeth.  

When asked if she knew Steve Jobs I expected her to say I use his products so yes I did.  

They've introduced Tyler Schultz.  He has a lot to do with her being found out.  

Her little dance in front of Sunny was so cringe.

Yes Elizabeth you changing the logo will make everything better.  

And wanting to use the machines on children?  No. Just no.  

Richard Fuisz might not be a good guy but I'm so looking forward to him going after Elizabeth.

[AntFTW]

3 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

Her little dance in front of Sunny was so cringe.

I couldn't help but imagine that scene with the real Elizabeth and Sunny and... ew 🤮

[AntFTW]

1) I just wanna acknowledge that the casting of this show is amazing, really top notch!

2) This show just always finds a way to bring me back to real life. When Elizabeth lies to David Boies, the attorney, it made me cringe because someone who provides a service to clients is only as good as the information they're given. When you have to interact with clients and have to do things on their behalf, it's a "shit in, shit out" scenario. She couldn't admit it in front of George Shultz but she can't expect the best result if she's not giving the best information.

3) I give Sunny a little credit for his willingness to confront the elephant in the room, something that Elizabeth did not want to do. Sunny still ain't shit though. What Elizabeth should have done was scale back her promises. Focus on the things that the box can actually and probably do. Figure out the processes she could minimize to a small footprint and start there. Sometimes you have to bite the bullet, scale back the dream and deal with reality.

Edited March 18, 2022 by AntFTW

[NeenerNeener]

I still can't deal with Naveen Andrews with a dad bod/pot belly. And yet he's still better looking than the real Sunny.

It's truly amazing how long she managed to keep the company going and how many people who should have known better she managed to sucker, including her own engineers. But I guess it's no different than some of the big, money-wasting projects I've seen in large companies, except that her company folded when reality finally hit and larger companies just write off the project and move on, never to speak of it again.

[SlovakPrincess]

Noooo, poor Ian!  :(   And his poor wife!   Poor guy really should've had his own lawyer, looking out for only his (and not Theranos') interests.  

I teared up when his wife cried at the end ... and when Brendan emailed around the tribute to Ian.  

And of course Elizabeth is lying to her own lawyer.  David Boies is being played in this series as though he suspects something might be up.  Lying clients are the worst!

She's got her brother working at the company now - LOL.  I'd forgotten about that.

Both Elizabeth and Sunny are crazier than shithouse rats.  Her dance into his office was so awkward and weird ... I was really afraid there for a minute that they were gonna do it in his office. 

Dr. Phyllis Gardner is back - heh.  And Tyler Schultz has entered the scene ... 

 

The marketing guy when Elizabeth waxed poetic about Steve Jobs and then admitted she never met him ... "Anyway ..." LMAO.

 

Edited March 17, 2022 by SlovakPrincess

[AntFTW]

7 hours ago, SlovakPrincess said:

Noooo, poor Ian!  :(   And his poor wife!   Poor guy really should've had his own lawyer, looking out for only his (and not Theranos') interests.

Absolutely! He should have.

I felt soooo bad for both Ian and his wife. The guy was really torn inside on how to go about this. It seems as though his experience with Theranos made him feel as if he had no purpose and that he was trapped. Theranos wasn’t letting him near the lab or letting him go and be a chemist somewhere else.

…and they had no remorse. The only thing they worried about was having their shitty equipment back! 🤬 😤

Edited March 18, 2022 by AntFTW

[AntFTW]

19 minutes ago, SlovakPrincess said:

The marketing guy when Elizabeth waxed poetic about Steve Jobs and then admitted she never met him ... "Anyway ..." LMAO.

I chuckled at their confused faces when she had to change the verbiage from one drop of blood to a few drops.

21 minutes ago, SlovakPrincess said:

And of course Elizabeth is lying to her own lawyer.  David Boies is being played in this series as though he suspects something might be up.  Lying clients are the worst!

Tell me about it! 🙄

[AntFTW]

55 minutes ago, NeenerNeener said:

But I guess it's no different than some of the big, money-wasting projects I've seen in large companies, except that her company folded when reality finally hit and larger companies just write off the project and move on, never to speak of it again.

…and you find a scapegoat, fire the scapegoat, and pretend they’re going in a new direction.

[Carolina Girl]

52 minutes ago, NeenerNeener said:

And yet he's still better looking than the real Sunny.

The real Sunny is a nasty effing troll.  

 

23 minutes ago, SlovakPrincess said:

She's got her brother working at the company now - LOL.  

And it's not mentioned (probably for time), but he also brought in several of his frat buddies from Duke to work as well.  The serious employees hated them.  

And good for you Brendan.  His friend to the last.  IRL the bitch and the troll said nothing - just sent someone to Ian's distraught and grieving widow demanding all papers iin their home connected to Theranos.  

And I see this episode introduces the bullshit account of her life and summers with Uncle and his death from cancer, and that whole fiction of  "not getting to say goodbye".  She chose not to say goodbye even when told he was nearing the end.   

I went back and watched "The Inventor" after this episode.  (Slow day here at the remote office).   If you've never seen it  and have HBO or HBO Max, it's definitely worth watching.  Alex Gibney is an excellent documentary film-maker.

[BeatrixK]

27 minutes ago, Carolina Girl said:

The real Sunny is a nasty effing troll.  

 

And it's not mentioned (probably for time), but he also brought in several of his frat buddies from Duke to work as well.  The serious employees hated them.  

And good for you Brendan.  His friend to the last.  IRL the bitch and the troll said nothing - just sent someone to Ian's distraught and grieving widow demanding all papers iin their home connected to Theranos.  

And I see this episode introduces the bullshit account of her life and summers with Uncle and his death from cancer, and that whole fiction of  "not getting to say goodbye".  She chose not to say goodbye even when told he was nearing the end.   

I went back and watched "The Inventor" after this episode.  (Slow day here at the remote office).   If you've never seen it  and have HBO or HBO Max, it's definitely worth watching.  Alex Gibney is an excellent documentary film-maker.

I was very shocked his death was this late in the game. (I gotta agree with the HBO Doc - it's superb.)  It certainly didn't play out as I anticipated:  The story seems to be, from the doc, as to the reason she started theranos.  Clearly - not the case.

Although I gotta give credit to Siefred:  She is killing it:  Elizabeth comes off as just...'off'.  But it's in such a weird way you can't put your finger on it.   Chilling when, after Ian's death, she was all 'Sad...but YAY, he can't testify.'  It was morbid and really shows you how soulless Elizabeth became.

And whoever thought 'Naveen Andrews, one of the handsomest men on the planet...let's just throw a belly on him - it'll be fine.'  You can't make Sonny remotely attractive, and you damned sure can't make Naveen Andrews unattractive.'  But at least I get to stare at Naveen Andrews, so an unexpected benefit, nonetheless.

Edited March 17, 2022 by BeatrixK

[Cinnabon]

2 hours ago, AntFTW said:

Absolutely! He should have.

I felt soooo bad for both Ian and his wife. The guy was really torn inside on how to go about this. It seems as though his experience with Theranos made him feel as if he had no purpose and that he was trapped. Theranos wasn’t letting him near the lab or let him go and be a chemist somewhere else.

…and they had no remorse. The only thing they worried about was having their shitty equipment back! 🤬 😤

Yes, his wife has said Elizabeth never said she was sorry or offered any condolences. She just wanted Ian’s laptop back. Evil. I blame this country though, for making us dependent on our jobs for healthcare coverage. 

[peachmangosteen]

I didn't know Ian killed himself so that was quite a gut punch. 

[Carolina Girl]

1 hour ago, Cinnabon said:

Yes, his wife has said Elizabeth never said she was sorry or offered any condolences.

All she cared about was that no one would blame her.  And that now Fuisz would have to settle.  

It WAS all your fault.  you lying fucking bitch.  You made sure a sick man believed that he would be fired and lose the health insurance he needed if he played by the rules.  And there comes a point in a lawsuit where if you stall a deposition a motion to compel is filed and Ian would have to testify and there is nothing you or that snake Boies could do about it.

YOU brought the lawsuit knowing you lied your ass off on the patent applications.  

[chocolatine]

It was so heartbreaking that Ian believed he wouldn't be able to work as a chemist again unless he stayed at Theranos. Some companies like to brainwash their employees into believing that they would never find equivalent or better jobs anywhere else, and it's sad to see how many smart people fall into that trap. I feel horrible for Ian's wife and disgusted at how Theranos treated her when she was at her most vulnerable. In her normal state she probably would have never allowed the Theranos goons into her home and let them go through the papers in Ian's home office. They had the right to ask for the laptop back, but they didn't have the right to go inside an employee's home.

9 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

Yes Elizabeth you changing the logo will make everything better.  

This reminded me of Facebook/Meta. Whenever there's a scandal that they can't explain away with "we had the best intentions," they change their logo (and when the sh*t really hit the fan, the company name).

5 hours ago, SlovakPrincess said:

I teared up when his wife cried at the end ... and when Brendan emailed around the tribute to Ian.  

They made it a point to show Brendan attribute multiple patents to Ian. I wonder whether that email will come back to bite Elizabeth later.

3 hours ago, Carolina Girl said:

And it's not mentioned (probably for time), but he also brought in several of his frat buddies from Duke to work as well.  The serious employees hated them.  

It's almost never a good idea to hire a relative or close friend, unless the role is hard to fill and that person is uniquely qualified. There will always be the perception of nepotism. "Associate director of strategic initiatives" is a BS vanity title, so no wonder nobody liked Elizabeth's brother, especially if he was even remotely as condescending as he's being portrayed. I once worked for a company where the CEO hired his best friend's daughter as a VP even though she was in her 20s with only a few years work experience. She wasn't a bad person but very obviously unqualified for the job. Nobody respected her, but also didn't dare to say anything to the CEO for fear of losing their jobs.

[Darlin]

Do we know if the engineer Brendan is based on a real person?  

I've been taking a deep dive into the Theranos scandal and I cannot get enough of it. Looking forward to the next episode! This show is great.  

[Andyourlittledog2]

All flash, no bang. All hat, no cattle.

This episode really highlighted how much Elizabeth was focused on appearances and image rather than the nuts and bolts of the device she 'invented' itself.  The logo, the fake backstory, the puppets, etc.  In the meeting with Schultz and again with Walgreens every time she spoke it was just BS without any true meaning. Good on Walgreens for insisting on a specific date no matter how hard she tried to dazzle their demand away with nonsense sentences.

Poor Ian, I had no idea he killed himself but as the time neared I knew it would happen.  His wife shouldn't have let them in the door, period. But she was so distraught I doubt it even occurred to her to resist until it was too late.

This episode reminded me of a quote from T.S. Eliot:

"Half of the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. They don't mean to do harm. But the harm does not interest them."

I don't think Elizabeth set out to hurt people. But she really didn't care that she did so. A brief prick of conscience from time to time, but easily dismissed as unimportant. She had a goal, a selfish goal to be rich and important, and nothing else really mattered to her. Even Sunny. She needed his support but she didn't actually love him. When he said he wanted to break up, she was frightened to lose him for what he did for her and Theranos, not for losing him for himself.

[chocolatine]

One more thing: was there ever any fallout from Theranos stealing Siemens's technology? My understanding from this episode is that that was how they were able to deliver a working device to Walgreens by the September 2013 deadline.

Edited March 18, 2022 by chocolatine
Walmart =/= Walgreens

[AntFTW]

4 hours ago, BeatrixK said:

Although I gotta give credit to Siefred:  She is killing it

Agreed. I think the casting as a whole is superb. Everyone is nailing it.

1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

It's almost never a good idea to hire a relative or close friend, unless the role is hard to fill and that person is uniquely qualified. There will always be the perception of nepotism. "Associate director of strategic initiatives" is a BS vanity title, so no wonder nobody liked Elizabeth's brother

I chuckled at that title though. When I heard it I said "...so basically you're in charge of nothing."

Edited March 18, 2022 by AntFTW

[AntFTW]

2 hours ago, chocolatine said:

My understanding from this episode is that that was how they were able to deliver a working device to Walmart by the September 2013 deadline.

I don't want to get ahead of where the show is but I was under the impression that they never provided any working devices to Walgreens.

ETA: Elizabeth did mention in this episode that they were gonna launch in September as planned but they were gonna do it in phases. "Phase 1" is using the Siemens machines to run the tests. Sunny says "Walgreens doesn't need to know what they are running the tests on" as he's showing Elizabeth the guts of the Siemens machine, which implies they never give Walgreens any devices. They intended on running the tests on the Siemens machines that they purchased without telling Walgreens.

Edited March 18, 2022 by AntFTW

[chocolatine]

2 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

I don't want to get ahead of where the show is but I was under the impression that they never provided any working devices to Walgreens.

So what was that ribbon cutting all about?

[AntFTW]

2 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

So what was that ribbon cutting all about?

I think it was just opening the wellness centers.

[xaxat]

The opera playing while the Theranos thugs ransack Ian's office after his death is from the Puccini opera Tosca. In it, the lead character is offered an impossible choice, one with terrible consequence for her regardless. In the part we heard, she is lamenting the fact that she has been forsaken, when all she wanted to do was the thing she loved. In her case, sing.

Totally appropriate selection for Ian. Who just wanted to do the science.

 

[Johnny Dollar]

The employees stayed on with the company because every department at Theranos was “siloed” with security preventing them from interacting. This way, nobody could put the pieces together to figure out that the technology was non-existent.

Not really a spoiler, but after Walgreens sunk $140 million into the project with Theranos, Wade left the company to become the CFO of JoAnn’s Fabrics. Quite a steep fall from grace. 

[ShellsandCheese]

30 minutes ago, Johnny Dollar said:

The employees stayed on with the company because every department at Theranos was “siloed” with security preventing them from interacting. This way, nobody could put the pieces together to figure out that the technology was non-existent.

Not really a spoiler, but after Walgreens sunk $140 million into the project with Theranos, Wade left the company to become the CFO of JoAnn’s Fabrics. Quite a steep fall from grace. 

Wade is actually the CEO and he remains a tool. The way JoAnn’s treated its employees during the early days of COVID was total garbage.

Edited March 18, 2022 by ShellsandCheese

[40Love]

7 hours ago, Carolina Girl said:

And it's not mentioned (probably for time), but he also brought in several of his frat buddies from Duke to work as well.  The serious employees hated them.  

My question about all the serious employees: what did all those people do? The lab folks I get. But what in the hell were all the people in the open desk areas really doing? Why are there so many of them? Was it about emulating Apple workspaces? Was it about having enough people to cheer at the cringy group meetings?  No wonder they were bleeding money. Well, that and the fact that Elizabeth Holmes is a fraud. 

 

 

[Samsnee]

Amanda Seyfried is doing a phenomenal job of making me hate Holmes even more than I thought I already could. 
The dancing to the Lil Wayne song was pure cringe. 

[CrystalBlue]

4 hours ago, Samsnee said:

Amanda Seyfried is doing a phenomenal job of making me hate Holmes even more than I thought I already could. 
The dancing to the Lil Wayne song was pure cringe. 

Totally agree about Amanda.  The dancing is always cringeworthy.  How about that bobbing up and down of her head when she talks.  I guess the real Holmes did that too; she looks like a bobblehead sometimes.

[MaggieG]

13 hours ago, chocolatine said:

It's almost never a good idea to hire a relative or close friend, unless the role is hard to fill and that person is uniquely qualified. There will always be the perception of nepotism. "Associate director of strategic initiatives" is a BS vanity title, so no wonder nobody liked Elizabeth's brother, especially if he was even remotely as condescending as he's being portrayed. I once worked for a company where the CEO hired his best friend's daughter as a VP even though she was in her 20s with only a few years work experience. She wasn't a bad person but very obviously unqualified for the job. Nobody respected her, but also didn't dare to say anything to the CEO for fear of losing their jobs.

 

12 hours ago, AntFTW said:

Agreed. I think the casting as a whole is superb. Everyone is nailing it.

I chuckled at that title though. When I heard it I said "...so basically you're in charge of nothing."

Haha, when he said that I turned to my husband and said "that is a made up title."

4 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

Totally agree about Amanda.  The dancing is always cringeworthy.  How about that bobbing up and down of her head when she talks.  I guess the real Holmes did that too; she looks like a bobblehead sometimes.

The real Elizabeth does do that! Amanda is doing a great job emulating not just her voice but her mannerisms. The way she smiles and purses her lips.

@40Love I'm also wondering what all those other employees are doing? HR, marketing, finance? Poor Ian just sitting there all day listening to music. My heart broke for him. It's so sad to think that he felt he had no way out.

I also wonder if Brendan was a real person or fictional and wonder if he got fired or quit when he walked out with his box of stuff. Loved him telling Tyler to "get out" on his first day.

[AntFTW]

5 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

Totally agree about Amanda.  The dancing is always cringeworthy.  How about that bobbing up and down of her head when she talks.  I guess the real Holmes did that too; she looks like a bobblehead sometimes.

Lmao @ the head bobbing

i can imagine that little dance of hers being so real. I can imagine just as creepy from the real people.

[vibeology]

18 minutes ago, MaggieG said:

@40Love I'm also wondering what all those other employees are doing? HR, marketing, finance? Poor Ian just sitting there all day listening to music. My heart broke for him. It's so sad to think that he felt he had no way out.

My understanding is that Ian's job was to evaluate resumes and applications for potential lab employees. So depending on Elizabeth and Sunny's moods some days were probably very busy and others were opera days. But either way, what a waste of his skills.

In terms of everyone else, you've got other HR people, marketing, finance, legal (someone has to prepare all those NDAs), all the Therabros that have fake jobs like Christian and all of those people probably had assistants. If you only care about how things look, it's probably very easy to fill an office.

[bluegirl147]

13 hours ago, AntFTW said:

14 hours ago, chocolatine said:

It's almost never a good idea to hire a relative or close friend, unless the role is hard to fill and that person is uniquely qualified. There will always be the perception of nepotism. "Associate director of strategic initiatives" is a BS vanity title, so no wonder nobody liked Elizabeth's brother

I chuckled at that title though. When I heard it I said "...so basically you're in charge of nothing."

And I'm sure he was paid handsomely for being in charge of nothing.

Theranos went through a ridiculous amount of money.  

Elizabeth told her mother all her money was in Theranos.  But since she didn't have any money before she created Theranos was that money really her money? Was she paying herself a salary and then reinvesting it back in the company? I have a hard time believing she didn't siphon some away.  

[larapu2000]

7 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

And I'm sure he was paid handsomely for being in charge of nothing.

Theranos went through a ridiculous amount of money.  

Elizabeth told her mother all her money was in Theranos.  But since she didn't have any money before she created Theranos was that money really her money? Was she paying herself a salary and then reinvesting it back in the company? I have a hard time believing she didn't siphon some away.  

I think perhaps she was saying all of her own personal assets had been purchased by Theranos under the company name.  The plane belonged to Theranos, not Elizabeth.  Perhaps her home and vehicles were also purchased under the company umbrella.  I have no doubt she was pulling a salary.

[bluegirl147]

1 minute ago, larapu2000 said:

I think perhaps she was saying all of her own personal assets had been purchased by Theranos under the company name.  The plane belonged to Theranos, not Elizabeth.  Perhaps her home and vehicles were also purchased under the company umbrella.  I have no doubt she was pulling a salary.

Yes you said it better than I did. She probably thought that sounded like a good idea at the time as I'm sure there were benefits to that. 

It's a testament to Amanda's acting that I hate Elizabeth more and more each episode.  

[qtpye]

16 hours ago, AntFTW said:

Agreed. I think the casting as a whole is superb. Everyone is nailing it.

I chuckled at that title though. When I heard it I said "...so basically you're in charge of nothing."

 

13 hours ago, Samsnee said:

Amanda Seyfried is doing a phenomenal job of making me hate Holmes even more than I thought I already could. 
The dancing to the Lil Wayne song was pure cringe. 

 

8 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

Totally agree about Amanda.  The dancing is always cringeworthy.  How about that bobbing up and down of her head when she talks.  I guess the real Holmes did that too; she looks like a bobblehead sometimes.

AS is doing a great job but sometimes her petite frame takes away from the characterization. 
I am a short woman and taller people just have more presence and Holmes had that.

The show is actually being kind to Holmes. She was much worse in real life.

[Carolina Girl]

9 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

I guess the real Holmes did that too; she looks like a bobblehead sometimes.

There's video of a real life interview she does with Bill Clinton.  When she's talking, she looks like a dashboard figure driving through a street full of potholes.  

[IntrovertRed]

7 hours ago, MaggieG said:

I also wonder if Brendan was a real person or fictional and wonder if he got fired or quit when he walked out with his box of stuff. Loved him telling Tyler to "get out" on his first day

I wonder if Brendan might be based on a combination of Tony Nugent and Dave Nelson.  They 'built' the Edison.  I put built in quotes because Tony didn't want to build an own automated device from scratch, so they used a $3,000 glue-dispensing robot from a company called Fisnar.  Tony modified that by adding a mechanical arm and a tube to transfer/measure out the liquid. Then he programmed it to make mimic what a chemist would do with the samples.  After that Dave Nelson made a smaller version, and after more modifications, it was dubbed the Edison by Elizabeth.  Once there was a working prototype, Ku and his team were fired.   I had to dig out my Bad Blood book to refresh my memory because I didn't remember Brendan's name.  It reminded me that there are so many more people that haven't been mentioned that also never lasted very long.  Once Elizabeth was unhappy with an employee's work or doubted their loyalty, she just replaced them.  I would bet that all those people at those desk are also spies.

The book goes into much more detail on the Fuisz family.  Richard Fuisz is a smart arrogant man with a big temper as we've seen, but if he had Boies on his side, he probably would have won his lawsuit.  Plus, Theranos didn't just go after Richard, his sons were also targets.

To this day, I am still amazed that Elizabeth was able to fool Boies, a seasoned, smart and feared attorney.  Did he have doubts but pushed them aside?  Although looks like he has other issues going on right now.

On 3/17/2022 at 12:31 PM, AntFTW said:

3) I give Sunny a little credit for his willingness to confront the elephant in the room, something that Elizabeth did not want to do. Sunny still ain't shit though. What Elizabeth should have done was scale back her promises. Focus on the things that the box can actually and probably do. Figure out the processes she could minimize to a small footprint and start there. Sometimes you have to bite the bullet, scale back the dream and deal with reality.

That's why I didn't buy that Sunny abused Elizabeth when it came out at her trial.  I think Sunny was obsessed with her and let her call the shots. He was always trying to get her to pull back or stop the marketing and publicity.  But she would not listen.  Naveen is doing a great job as Sunny.  Sunny was unreasonable and had many eruptions at Theranos and everyone was afraid of him.

I wonder how true that Elizabeth's mother talked her into sticking with Theranos when Elizabeth expressed doubts and wanting to quit.  I'm very curious about her mother.  She comes across as critical in this series and I don't recall reading that anywhere.   Elizabeth seemed determined and headed on the right path, but decided to take a shortcut when told no by Phyllis Gardner (who I love on this show and in real life).

Edited March 18, 2022 by KLJ

[peachmangosteen]

4 hours ago, qtpye said:

The show is actually being kind to Holmes. She was much worse in real life.

I don't know much of anything about the real Elizabeth but I honestly don't find the Elizabeth on the show as awful as so many who do know story of the real her seem to think she is so I agree with this. I think the show is portraying her as more sympathetic than she seems to deserve.

[Carolina Girl]

2 hours ago, KLJ said:

Plus, Theranos didn't just go after Richard, his sons were also targets.

His son John was a partner at the McDermott firm, which Elizabeth knew and approached them to file a suit against Richard Fuisz and used that opportunity to suggest that John had accessed the confidential information and given it to his father.  

She had not thought to patent the technology (an interface that communicated with the patient's doctor about test results) that Fuisz thought she might need - and then was pissed that someone else got there first.  

[CrystalBlue]

I'm enjoying Elizabeth's mother because I like the actress, Elizabeth Marvel.  And Laurie Metcalf's Phyllis Gardner is wonderful.  Again, Amanda Seyfried is killing it.  Very good actors on this show, including William H. Macy.

[lovinbob]

12 hours ago, MaggieG said:

I also wonder if Brendan was a real person or fictional and wonder if he got fired or quit when he walked out with his box of stuff. Loved him telling Tyler to "get out" on his first day.

He is all of us. 

3 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

I'm enjoying Elizabeth's mother because I like the actress, Elizabeth Marvel.  And Laurie Metcalf's Phyllis Gardner is wonderful.  Again, Amanda Seyfried is killing it.  Very good actors on this show, including William H. Macy.

Agreed. And the scene with Boies and Fuisz was the battle of the big bald heads. 

[Glade]

Poor Ian!  He had a life that was worth living, a wife and two beautiful dogs, it shouldn't have ended on account of this narcissistic scam-company, let alone because of Elizabeth's frivolous lawsuit to defend her narcissistic scam-company based on bogus patents.

Edited March 19, 2022 by Glade

[wanderingstar]

Not gonna lie: this episode had a lot of triggers for me. I’ve definitely sat in an all-hands meeting and heard a CEO say “If you’re not with me, you should just leave;" and been discouraged from talking to co-workers about work. So this episode gave me workplace PTSD flashbacks.

This episode reinforced how many people enabled Elizabeth’s BS, not just Sunny.

I’m really enjoying the cast. In particular, some of the recurring actors (Alan Ruck as Jay Rosan, James Hiroyuki Liao as Edmund Ku)  have stood out.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Gillian Rosh

[LuvMyShows]

19 hours ago, KLJ said:

That's why I didn't buy that Sunny abused Elizabeth when it came out at her trial.  I think Sunny was obsessed with her and let her call the shots. He was always trying to get her to pull back or stop the marketing and publicity.  But she would not listen.  Naveen is doing a great job as Sunny.  Sunny was unreasonable and had many eruptions at Theranos and everyone was afraid of him.

Somehow I had been under a rock, and remember first finding out about all the Elizabeth/Theranos stuff around September 2021.  What captivated my interest, and made me hate her with the intensity of a thousand suns, was blaming all her bad decisions on Sunny's abuse.  Never mind that she was fully functional during that same time and managed to make thousands and thousands of normal, good decisions...which if she were really as bad off as she claims due to the abuse, she would not have been able to do.  So I've been puzzled at the lack of scenes showing this abuse, and instead just glimpses of his temper overall and sometimes controlling nature towards her.

[SlovakPrincess]

On 3/17/2022 at 9:12 PM, chocolatine said:

So what was that ribbon cutting all about?

My recollection of the stories on this is that Walmarts opened the wellness centers ... and then customers were surprised when they were still having to give a test-tube worth of blood instead of the finger prick drop.  Basically, I think they did some weird hybrid of sending blood samples offsite and using Siemens testing devices but sometimes used adapted devices (hence the complaints of inaccurate results that eventually came out).  

[IntrovertRed]

1 hour ago, LuvMyShows said:

Somehow I had been under a rock, and remember first finding out about all the Elizabeth/Theranos stuff around September 2021.  What captivated my interest, and made me hate her with the intensity of a thousand suns, was blaming all her bad decisions on Sunny's abuse.  Never mind that she was fully functional during that same time and managed to make thousands and thousands of normal, good decisions...which if she were really as bad off as she claims due to the abuse, she would not have been able to do.  So I've been puzzled at the lack of scenes showing this abuse, and instead just glimpses of his temper overall and sometimes controlling nature towards her.

Obviously I’m not sure, but my guess is that abuse was not shown or really considered as a factor because the alleged abuse wasn’t really known until right before/during her trial.  

[bluegirl147]

3 hours ago, KLJ said:

Obviously I’m not sure, but my guess is that abuse was not shown or really considered as a factor because the alleged abuse wasn’t really known until right before/during her trial.  

And if I'm not mistaken it was uncorroroborated.  It was just Elizabeth allegeding Sunny abused her.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Is William H. Macy wearing red contacts?  Freaky stuff.

The Lil Wayne scene omogmgomggawwwwwwwwwwwwwww lol.

Amanda and Naveen are chillingly good in this.

I can't believe Ian killing himself didn't make more people leave.  These people are psychotic.

On 3/17/2022 at 5:22 PM, peachmangosteen said:

I didn't know Ian killed himself so that was quite a gut punch. 

Really?  Many posters here spoiled it the episode threads leading up to it 🙄. God forbid we learn something watching the show.

Quote

Wikipedia:  When his wife called Holmes' office to report his death, Holmes did not return her call. Instead, his wife received an email from a Theranos lawyer requesting she immediately return Gibbons' company laptop and any confidential information he might have had in his possession.[2]

 

Edited March 19, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[amarante]

2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Is William H. Macy wearing red contacts?  Freaky stuff.

The Lil Wayne scene omogmgomggawwwwwwwwwwwwwww lol.

Amanda and Naveen are chillingly good in this.

I can't believe Ian killing himself didn't make more people leave.  These people are psychotic.

Really?  Many posters here spoiled it the episode threads leading up to it 🙄. God forbid we learn something watching the show.

 

I think the isolation of the various departments has been shown already. 

People were not told that he committed suicide so most of them assumed that the cancer had reoccurred and he had died of the cancer and not suicide and certainly not suicide due to a lawsuit in which he felt between a rock and a hard place. He knew that if he testified truthfully they would pursue him to the gates of hell.

I think the show does a fairly good job of portraying how she managed to "seduce" these "smart" old white men because she was able to give them what they needed. That was her true genius - ironic that Boies was said to have that *talent* and he was bamboozled as well. I think with Boies (as well as some of the others) greed played a part in it because they all had been *given* substantial amounts of stock which would have made them millions if the IPO had gone through. 

With employees I think the utter ruthlessness of how the NDA's were enforced kept people in line. There was a huge employee turnover - there were black humor jokes about who had gotten "disappeared" that week. And when you were "disappeared" the company was willing to be absolutely ruthless to make sure you didn't disclose anything.

I am not sure if they actually reverse engineered the Sieman's machine because I think they just used the actual machines. One of the problems was that even when they used the larger machines the results were compromised because they weren't collecting enough blood and so it was being diluted and contaminated. 

[LuvMyShows]

2 hours ago, amarante said:

I am not sure if they actually reverse engineered the Sieman's machine because I think they just used the actual machines. One of the problems was that even when they used the larger machines the results were compromised because they weren't collecting enough blood and so it was being diluted and contaminated. 

Why do they keep showing machines smoking and blowing up? Is it just for dramatic effect, cause none of what we know about what wasn't working with the machines, seems to correlate with a machine actually self-destructing,