S01.E05: Flower of Life

[IntrovertRed]

16 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

Why do they keep showing machines smoking and blowing up? Is it just for dramatic effect, cause none of what we know about what wasn't working with the machines, seems to correlate with a machine actually self-destructing,

When they had them stacked on top of each other they got too hot and overheated.  So at some point they stopped stacking them, although not stacking seems like that would be obvious anyway.

[Guest]

Please make sure your posts do not cover material not yet covered by the series.  I know it is a news story so you may know additional details, but to keep the threads as spoiler free as possible, please limit your discussion to what has been covered.

Thank you.

[amarante]

On 3/19/2022 at 8:23 PM, LuvMyShows said:

Why do they keep showing machines smoking and blowing up? Is it just for dramatic effect, cause none of what we know about what wasn't working with the machines, seems to correlate with a machine actually self-destructing,

I read the book but haven't retained all of the details.

However as I recall there were all kinds of mechanical issues involved with the machines they were designing. I don't know if any actually exploded or if this was just a cinematic way to illustrate that the machines were *failing* on the most basic mechanical level as well as the more advanced ability to do what was "claimed". The issues were so manifestly obvious that you didn't have to be a rocket science (or blood machine equivalent 😂) to know they weren't even close to having functional machines.

One thing that does stand out is that there were some kind of internal arms that were basic robotic functions and that they were constantly going out of calibration so that the machines had to be continually recalibrated which took them off-line for significant periods of time.

What is fascinating to me is that on every level it was the Emperors' New Clothes because the "dream" really didn't seem to advance medicine that much - even if it was achievable. I don't think blood draws as they are now performed are the kind of immense issue that is causing significant medical issues and deaths etc. When I have needed blood drawn it isn't a big deal and the tests themselves are performed by an old school lab like Quest are relatively inexpensive - at least in terms of what reimbursement is for insurance.

[Rootbeer]

1 hour ago, amarante said:

I read the book but haven't retained all of the details.

However as I recall there were all kinds of mechanical issues involved with the machines they were designing. I don't know if any actually exploded or if this was just a cinematic way to illustrate that the machines were *failing* on the most basic mechanical level as well as the more advanced ability to do what was "claimed". The issues were so manifestly obvious that you didn't have to be a rocket science (or blood machine equivalent 😂) to know they weren't even close to having functional machines.

One thing that does stand out is that there were some kind of internal arms that were basic robotic functions and that they were constantly going out of calibration so that the machines had to be continually recalibrated which took them off-line for significant periods of time.

What is fascinating to me is that on every level it was the Emperors' New Clothes because the "dream" really didn't seem to advance medicine that much - even if it was achievable. I don't think blood draws as they are now performed are the kind of immense issue that is causing significant medical issues and deaths etc. When I have needed blood drawn it isn't a big deal and the tests themselves are performed by an old school lab like Quest are relatively inexpensive - at least in terms of what reimbursement is for insurance.

Yes, I don't think getting blood work is the giant barrier to care that Elizabeth claimed it to be.  It also cannot be used to diagnose many of the things, like melanoma, that she said she wanted to detect earlier.  At one point, she preached putting the machines into individual homes so that everyone could test their own blood monthly and find abnormalities.  I can see a lot of people being enamored of the tech and wanting to do it, I get patients in my office all the time asking me to 'test all my hormones'  because 'I just want to see'.  People are interested, but it doesn't justify the cost nor the risk of false positive tests in an otherwise healthy population.

Theranos not only had trouble with their own machines, even the Siemens machines that they brought in to run tests that Edison couldn't were constantly breaking down because they were trying to run them on smaller samples than were recommended. The quality control in their lab was frighteningly inadequate.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Rootbeer

[Tdoc72]

On 3/17/2022 at 2:15 PM, SlovakPrincess said:

Noooo, poor Ian!  :(   And his poor wife!   Poor guy really should've had his own lawyer, looking out for only his (and not Theranos') interests.  

 

And his poor dogs.  Them standing at the bathroom door was so sad. 

On 3/17/2022 at 8:37 PM, Darlin said:

Do we know if the engineer Brendan is based on a real person?  

I've been taking a deep dive into the Theranos scandal and I cannot get enough of it. Looking forward to the next episode! This show is great.  

If you haven’t read Bad Blood by John Carreyrou, I highly recommend it. He really lays everything out neatly and I got a really good understanding of what was going on. 

[qtpye]

2 hours ago, Tdoc72 said:

And his poor dogs.  Them standing at the bathroom door was so sad. 

If you haven’t read Bad Blood by John Carreyrou, I highly recommend it. He really lays everything out neatly and I got a really good understanding of what was going on. 

It is an amazing book and a fantastic read.

[MaryPatShelby]

The dogs sitting outside Ian's door, scratching and whimpering and wanting their guy to come out, killed me almost as much as Ian's death did. 

[Ursula Parrott]

On 3/18/2022 at 10:16 AM, Carolina Girl said:

There's video of a real life interview she does with Bill Clinton.  When she's talking, she looks like a dashboard figure driving through a street full of potholes.  

I loved seeing The Behavior Panel episode dissecting her and her pathology.

[smartymarty]

On 3/17/2022 at 1:45 PM, NeenerNeener said:

I still can't deal with Naveen Andrews with a dad bod/pot belly. And yet he's still better looking than the real Sunny.

He looked great in The English Patient, too.
 

[Kel Varnsen]

On 3/17/2022 at 3:44 PM, Carolina Girl said:

And good for you Brendan.  His friend to the last.  

I really like how Brendan turned out to be a decent guy. Since when. They brought him in it seemed like there would be conflict between him and the other engineers. The only thing I didn't buy was that a company as controlling and secretive as Theranos would even have an "all employees" email address.

On 3/19/2022 at 11:23 PM, LuvMyShows said:

Why do they keep showing machines smoking and blowing up? Is it just for dramatic effect, cause none of what we know about what wasn't working with the machines, seems to correlate with a machine actually self-destructing,

I was wondering about that too. I mean it has been 10 years since Theranos started and they still aren't past the "I hope it doesn't blow up" stage of design development.

Kurtwood Smith as the lawyer guy was a nice surprise. Although I am disappointed he didn't call Elizabeth a dumbass.

Also in the deposition scene why was he wearing his watch over top of the sleeve of his dress shirt? Is that a thing people do? I have worn dress shirts a lot of days of my life and I don't think I have ever thought to put my watch over the sleeve.