S01.E09: Let the Tournament Begin

[OtterMommy]

Season Finale

Air date; March 21, 2022

[AntFTW]

 

[Haleth]

Ooh, looks like Bertha is going to pull the same trick Alva Vanderbilt did to get noticed by Mrs Astor. This should be fun. 

Edited March 19, 2022 by Haleth

[dmc]

Well we all knew Raikes wouldn't marry Marion.  

I cannot believe this plot lasted for the entire season and was ill conceived and unconvincing from the start.  First of all, Raikes is jelly fish.  He's literally an shapeless inanimate object that is not even remotely transfixing.  So its difficult to believe a woman who has recently lost her father and moved to a new city to live with virtual strangers would immediately get wrapped up in anything with a guy that is so blah.  

The only convincing thing about this relationship is that a man would whole heartedly pursue a woman enough to move his practice to another state and then bail.  I feel that men absolutely do this.  Dive into the deep end and then realize they cannot swim.  

I feel like we cannot discuss an episode without mentioning Marion's atrocious pale yellow ball gown that looked made her skin sallow and the red flower that made her look like a deer recently shot.  

Marion and Larry do make a fetching pair, but I am going to need them to flesh out Larry in the next season.  

So Bertha is already in...and its season 1.  This seems equally farfetched to me.  It also makes me wonder what we are going to be watching next season.  If the new money people are already in with the old money after one season. 

I am going to ignore the faux servant plot because its whatever and I don't care about any of these servants.  They are legit background that every once in a blue moon they toss a plot at.

Mrs. Fane has finally endeared herself to me so that's something.  Maybe that's why she land such a hot piece like her husband.  

Sorry show you cannot convince Gladys would ever be into Oscar.  I simply do not believe it.  Stop acting like this will happen. 

I loved the Waltz scene

Ward McAllister's Society as I Have Found It has been reissued on Kindle if you want to read.  I bought the original on Ebay awhile back but its available again digital version for 99 cents.

 

 

Edited March 22, 2022 by dmc

[kristen111]

Well, everything tied up in a neat little bow.  All except Peggy, and the little boy.  Until next season.  Loved all the scenery, the ball, everything.  Gorgeous.

Edited March 22, 2022 by kristen111

[AntFTW]

New French Chef Charron: If the ball is tomorrow, I presume she must take what I give her

Me: Bitch!

[CleoCaesar]

I don’t really like this show, but the ballroom dancing scene was gorgeous.

 

 

[eejm]

Jeez, Marian.  Tell Raikes he’s the asshole that he is.  He deserves it!  Have a fucking backbone.  

 

I get Peggy’s father being pissed about her eloping.  I understand him being conscious of the family’s place in society at that time.  But to break up his daughter’s marriage, lie to her, and take away her baby?  Doesn’t that seem like just a bit of an overreaction?  Hope the his wife and daughter shutting him out was worth it.

 

Whoa!  I never saw Bordain/Borden’s deception coming.  His insistence on using the accent is a hoot.  I love the other servants’ defense of Borden against the real (drunk) French chef.  I also loved Bertha’s wince upon hearing Borden’s real accent.

 

The Russells’ blackmailing of literally everyone with any influence to come to Gladys’ ball really kind of awesome. Gladys (and Bertha) got her ball.

 

I know there’s been a lot of discussion about Oscar and Blake Ritson’s portrayal of him, but I think his wit matches that of Agnes in a way no other character does.  I believe Oscar as her son.  However, I refuse to believe Agnes is in the dark about his sexual orientation.

 

Ooh, John Adams is still salty about Oscar’s pursuit of Gladys.  I guess John Adams is still all about showing Oscar that he can be a chick magnet too?

 

I’m glad Ada got some more depth this time.  I think we’ve seen her through Agnes’ eyes all season - as a sweet, but somewhat dim-witted woman.  She honestly has a grace that Agnes does not possess.  

 

Jeanne Tripplehorn didn’t have a lot to do, but I really enjoyed Mrs. Chamberlain’s presence this season.  I also absolutely covet her jade earrings.
 

I thought we’d see Turner again.  Glad I was wrong.

[Brian Cronin]

Wait, wait, the baby DIDN'T die? What kind of unexpected turn of events THAT was! Who could have possibly predicted that besides everyone who has ever watched a TV show, play, movie or read any fiction ever? My mind is BLOWN!!!

[dmc]

4 minutes ago, eejm said:

Jeez, Marian.  Tell Raikes he’s the asshole that he is.  He deserves it!  Have a fucking backbone.  

 

Not enemies, I don't like bitterness....

C'mon Marion... wanted to see him slapped, peed on by Pumpkin and tossed out of the ball.  And how did Raikes even get invited...Marion use your influence to get him tossed out of society

Edited March 22, 2022 by dmc

[Straycat80]

That was one hell of a ball to get over the next day, looked like mid morning. The ballroom dancing was very elegant. 
what was the point of Raikes and Marian? Why did he ask her to elope knowing she had no money and that is what he was after in the first place. That was a dumb storyline. 
I guess we’ll have to see if Marian ends up with Larry. And I hope Gladys doesn’t end up with Oscar. Hopefully Bertha will be careful, like investigating Oscar first, before she lets him or any guy marry Gladys.

Not sure if I care about bald servant guy and rich lady secret. 
So Bertha managed to achieve a lot in social status with the old money people. I’m kind of impressed. And I’m glad she’s keeping the chef who really wasn’t a French chef. 
I like this series very much, I can’t wait until season two. 

 

[Brian Cronin]

On 3/19/2022 at 11:36 AM, Haleth said:

Ooh, looks like Bertha is going to pull the same trick Alva Vanderbilt did to get noticed by Mrs Astor. This should be fun. 

What's everyone's take on this thing? Where Fellowes just takes actual events from history and has them happen to characters on the show. I am unsure of whether I think it's clever or kind of half-assed. 

[Snazzy Daisy]

Marian’s dress is gorgeous‼️

“When you dance with the devil, the devil doesn’t change. The devil changes you.”

Agnes, first time in “hell”… officially! 😆

Edited March 22, 2022 by SnazzyDaisy

[Popples]

2 minutes ago, eejm said:

Ooh, John Adams is still salty about Oscar’s pursuit of Gladys.  I guess John Adams is still all about showing Oscar that he can be a chick magnet too?

If you're going to unknowingly be with a gay guy, go for the more attractive one.

Was that weirdly placed scarlet tulle in the middle of Marian's gown supposed to represent Raikes metaphorically stabbing her in the heart?

I'm ready to fight Peggy's dad. He was just telling about how his own uncle got sold away and he did the same to his grandson! So coldhearted.

Bannister must have his revenge on Church.

[dmc]

1 minute ago, Straycat80 said:

what was the point of Raikes and Marian? Why did he ask her to elope knowing she had no money and that is what he was after in the first place. That was a dumb storyline. 
I guess we’ll have to see if Marian ends up with Larry. And I hope Gladys doesn’t end up with Oscar.

no point whatsoever and Marion has to end up with Larry...there are no more male characters

1 minute ago, Brian Cronin said:

What's everyone's take on this thing? Where Fellowes just takes actual events from history and has them happen to characters on the show. I am unsure of whether I think it's clever or kind of half-assed. 

half assed

[Brian Cronin]

8 minutes ago, eejm said:

I get Peggy’s father being pissed about her eloping.  I understand him being conscious of the family’s place in society at that time.  But to break up his daughter’s marriage, lie to her, and take away her baby?  Doesn’t that seem like just a bit of an overreaction?  Hope the his wife and daughter shutting him out was worth it.

It straight up makes NO sense. The father is basically worse than, like, a fairy tale witch here. It's bonkers. 

[Chippings]

4 minutes ago, Straycat80 said:

what was the point of Raikes and Marian? Why did he ask her to elope knowing she had no money and that is what he was after in the first place. That was a dumb storyline. 
 

 

Ditto that  Makes no sense at all

The main thought I had during the episode was how much I can't stand either Mr Russell or Mrs. Russell - both despicable, if really fond of each other.  

Did enjoy the Chef story, though.  

Can't wait to see how else y'all take this thing apart and examine all its elements !!  

 

[Jordan Baker]

After all these episodes, I still haven't warmed to Bertha. Her moment of triumph didn't change that.

The ball was well-staged, though. Many of the gowns were beautiful, and I vote for Agnes as the loveliest surprise. It was nice to see her a bit more done up.

The moment between Bridget and Jack, with the "anything is possible in America" line, which I think was written to be optimistic and hopeful, just made me sad. 

The Raikes storyline went out with a whimper. He dropped Marian for a wealthier deb? Yawn.

Audra McDonald is a gem. 

The best line of the night (and one I might have said to myself a time or two in college), courtesy of Agnes: "Isn't Henry James a little dense for a young lady?"

[Brian Cronin]

Dropping in the French chef plot into the season finale is super odd. 

[AntFTW]

15 minutes ago, Brian Cronin said:

What's everyone's take on this thing? Where Fellowes just takes actual events from history and has them happen to characters on the show. I am unsure of whether I think it's clever or kind of half-assed. 

From the way he explained it (I think in the podcast), it allows TPTB more freedom with the characters. If I recall correctly, he explained that he has more freedom to create events and stories around fictional characters that he couldn't do with characters based on real people. For example, he wouldn't have Mrs. Astor do something in the show that she did not do in real life. That limitation doesn't exist with the fictional characters. I have no opinion about whether it's clever or half-assed but it made sense to me as Fellowes explained it.

2 minutes ago, Brian Cronin said:

Dropping in the French chef plot into the season finale is super odd. 

I agree. It added nothing to any of the story lines that we have watched throughout the season. Comic relief maybe?

Edited March 22, 2022 by AntFTW

[BeatrixK]

Mrs. Fane is the Bestie we all need.

Bertha stepped on too many bustles this episode:  She is gonna have to pay that bill next season - and I will be here for it.  Bertha Russell is my Victorian HBOC Spirit Guide and I am here for it!

Cynthia Nixon makes Aunt Ada the Aunt everyone deserves to have.  I absolutely adore her in this:  Enjoyed Miranda v1.0, but Aunt Ada could only have been played by her!

So how are they gonna explain Peggy being a single mother in this time?  I can't imagine any part of Victorian society accepting a single mother.

The Ball!  Oh, my lort!  Gorgeous!!!!!!

And now...we wait.  Show hole!

 

[chitowngirl]

27 minutes ago, Straycat80 said:

 

That was one hell of a ball to get over the next day, looked like mid morning. The ballroom dancing was very elegant. 
what was the point of Raikes and Marian? Why did he ask her to elope knowing she had no money and that is what he was after in the first place. That was a dumb storyline. 

 

I believe the point of Raikes perusing Marion was to get an “in” to Society. He was more successful than he imagined and is now gunning for wealth too.

Marion-if ever there was a time to show some backbone…THIS WAS IT! 

Edited March 22, 2022 by chitowngirl

[Brian Cronin]

The Raikes thing is fascinating, in that it just sort of petered out. No big drama, no big twist, just "Oh yeah, he realized he could fuck some lady with a LOT of money." It's very strange, but I dunno, maybe it's almost a good thing to mess with expectations? I tend to have stronger opinions on decisions that Fellowes makes, but I am really sort of up in the air on this one. I don't know that I would have preferred a more dramatic twist than Raikes just realizing there were other ladies that could make him a richer guy. Hmm...as I write it, I think I'm okay with it, honestly. It doesn't even necessarily make Raikes out to be a TOTAL scumbag, really. 

[AntFTW]

23 minutes ago, eejm said:

I get Peggy’s father being pissed about her eloping.  I understand him being conscious of the family’s place in society at that time.  But to break up his daughter’s marriage, lie to her, and take away her baby?  Doesn’t that seem like just a bit of an overreaction?  Hope the his wife and daughter shutting him out was worth it.

People are complicated but I can't help but think that as a former slave, he wouldn't rip a child from their mother, especially his own daughter and grandchild.

I would go one step further and say I understand him breaking up the marriage, but taking away the baby...

[AntFTW]

9 minutes ago, BeatrixK said:

Cynthia Nixon makes Aunt Ada the Aunt everyone deserves to have.

I absolutely PRAISE her performance throughout this season.

 Cynthia Nixon, Christine Baranski, and Audra McDonald were the highlights of the show for me.

[sistermagpie]

On 3/19/2022 at 11:36 AM, Haleth said:

Ooh, looks like Bertha is going to pull the same trick Alva Vanderbilt did to get noticed by Mrs Astor. This should be fun. 

Except without the context that made it make sense. AV threw a ball everyone wanted to go to and didn't invite Mrs. Astor. Bertha threw a ball that nobody wanted to come to until Bertha forced Mrs. Astor to come and force all her friends to come. In real life Astor was risking getting shut out of the ball of the season. Here Mrs. Astor risks...his daughter pouting in her room some more...?

25 minutes ago, eejm said:

Whoa!  I never saw Bordain/Borden’s deception coming.  His insistence on using the accent is a hoot.  I love the other servants’ defense of Borden against the real (drunk) French chef.  I also loved Bertha’s wince upon hearing Borden’s real accent.

That was my favorite moment.

25 minutes ago, eejm said:

I’m glad Ada got some more depth this time.  I think we’ve seen her through Agnes’ eyes all season - as a sweet, but somewhat dim-witted woman.  She honestly has a grace that Agnes does not possess.  

Ada seems to just let Agnes think she's the smart sister. She knows nothing about what's going on in her own house while Ada's seeing through every ruse there is. I will not be surprised if she winds up outing Oscar at this rate!

Weird when Peggy claimed that she would try to talk Marian out of anything stupid when she actually encouraged her with this nonsense. 

Gotta hand it to Raikes because so much of a useless blob he breaks Marian's heart by just...not showing up to his own elopement. Then he's just sitting in his office. He might have just told her he got backed up with a client and couldn't make it or something. He really just didn't notice that he loved society and money more than Marian until it came time to hail a cab. Meanwhile Marian's declaring that he doesn't give a fig about it because she hadn't noticed either.

2 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

People are complicated but I can't help but think that as a former slave, he wouldn't rip a child from their mother, especially his own daughter and grandchild.

I would go one step further and say I understand him breaking up the marriage, but taking away the baby...

 

Exactly. I get that he's acting like a guy who cares about society but you'd think a former slave would have a little too much real life experience to casually rehome somebody's baby.

[Brian Cronin]

15 minutes ago, BeatrixK said:

Cynthia Nixon makes Aunt Ada the Aunt everyone deserves to have.  I absolutely adore her in this:  Enjoyed Miranda v1.0, but Aunt Ada could only have been played by her!

What a year for Nixon! To be so embarrassing on one HBO show and then a showstopper on a whole other HBO show!

[RachelKM]

Soooo... Marian and Raikes.... er... That was much ado about literally nothing.  Raikes ,as I suspected since his oh so romantic "we must marry now or one of us might get distracted" speech, was just feckless and an idiot. I mean, good on Fellowes I guess for not trying to create an ninth inning explanation.  It really was as dumb, poorly thought out, and immature as it seemed.   I annoyed that Marian got away with being a total idiot and willfully blind in the face of multiple warnings and red flags with ZERO consequences.

Whatever.  At least it's over.

Marian showed the most chemistry and life in a scene with Raikes in his office breaking up with him.  She was back to bland at the ball.  But that one scene was decent. She still doesn't deserve Ada or Aurora in her corner.  They're both too good for her.

As is Larry.  But I'm hoping she and Larry become good friends and maybe he's a good influence on her.  It would be a long time before I would want see them paired romantically if ever. 

42 minutes ago, BeatrixK said:

Mrs. Fane is the Bestie we all need.

Yes.  She was great.  I was about ready for her to cut Raikes when he showed at the ball.  She looked like she wanted to before Ada took her away.

Poor Peggy.  Jesus.  I kind of thought it might go this way.  But holy Hell, Mr. Scott.  There ain't no coming back from that.  Yay, Mrs. Scott, though! Help your daughter and go find you grandson! Also, yay anything Audra McDonald. 

35 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

People are complicated but I can't help but think that as a former slave, he wouldn't rip a child from their mother, especially his own daughter and grandchild.

I had a similar thought. 

1 hour ago, dmc said:

So Bertha is already in...and its season 1.  This seems equally farfetched to me.  It also makes me wonder what we are going to be watching next season.  If the new money people are already in with the old money after one season. 

I think the drama going forward will be power struggles and shifting dynamics.  Mrs. Astor implied that she could still cut Bertha at anytime and and Agnes expressly reserved the right to quarrel later.

Also, just because Bertha got through doesn't mean it will open flood gates. And never underestimate the speed at which the newly elevated will forget they were ever below and yank their ladders up behind them.

Edited March 22, 2022 by RachelKM

[Brian Cronin]

3 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Except without the context that made it make sense. AV threw a ball everyone wanted to go to and didn't invite Mrs. Astor. Bertha threw a ball that nobody wanted to come to until Bertha forced Mrs. Astor to come and force all her friends to come. In real life Astor was risking getting shut out of the ball of the season. Here Mrs. Astor risks...his daughter pouting in her room some more...?

37 minutes ago, eejm said:

Excellent point and yeah, in that context, it really doesn't work. The real threat, as McCallister notes, is that the nouveau riche would start their own society, which specifically happened with the Metropolitan Opera, not that Astor would worry about disappointing her own daughter, who she obviously doesn't care THAT much about her feelings. 

[Enigma X]

26 minutes ago, Brian Cronin said:

Dropping in the French chef plot into the season finale is super odd. 

I wonder if it was supposed to show that Bertha is a snob, or she will do anything to be accepted into society.

The whole Raikes thing wasn't even interesting. Fellowes didn't even make him sneaky, but he dumped Marion in the most boring fashion. And the dialog is just not good. Marion said she believed she loved him. I am sorry, but I am not mad at the character for that but the writer. 

(I am not from the 1880s/1890s, but I highly question some of these characters' dialog.)

And Aurora Fane is a really great character name.

Edited March 22, 2022 by Enigma X

[AntFTW]

1 hour ago, dmc said:

Marion and Larry do make a fetching pair, but I am going to need them to flesh out Larry in the next season.  

I have a feeling they will do that next season. I feel this is the beginning of Marian and Larry courting saga.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

It does feel like the stakes between Marian and Rakes weren't particularly high, and therefore, they weren't a compelling couple. Ironically, the most interesting they were was at the end, when Marian realized he was using her and confronted him.

And I feel like they are going to make the same mistake with Marian and Larry. You've got to give them some kind of real conflict to make them interesting. They can't just be neighbors who look good dancing together. 

Heck, half the reason why George and Bertha are interesting is that even though they love each other, you can tell that George thinks Bertha is over the top and that Bertha thinks George isn't tough enough at times. (Lord knows why she thinks that but she does).

Edited March 22, 2022 by eleanorofaquitaine

[AntFTW]

35 minutes ago, BeatrixK said:

Mrs. Fane is the Bestie we all need.

Aurora risked everything without regard for her safety and went to the Chamber of Secrets (Mrs. Chamberlain's house)... FOR MARIAN!!!

Edited March 22, 2022 by AntFTW

[Snazzy Daisy]

Inspiration for Marian’s dress? 🤔

John Singer Sargent's Madame Paul Poirson

[AntFTW]

1 hour ago, dmc said:

Well we all knew Raikes wouldn't marry Marion.  

At least we can put to rest that he's trying to steal Marian's pennies.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

Marion is truly dumber than a box of rocks. She claimed this episode that Raikes didn't care about "society," um say what now? Have you not been paying attention this entire season Marion? She's seen him at the opera flirting with some chick, knew he went to the Edison lighting with some date, and just generally knew he was having the time of his life in society. What a dolt. She is going to make some man very happy because he'll be able to cheat on her left and right and she won't even notice.

I don't understand Raikes motives at all. I think we are supposed to believe that he really loves her but loves money more. OK. Still, why push for marriage so quickly? Excuse my crudeness but did he just want to get his dick wet? He tried to get into her hotel room and when that didn't work he goes for marriage knowing that's the only way to get her into bed? And why her? He's been hanging out with a bunch of rich eligible women, what was so compelling about Marion that made him still want her so bad even without money? Oh, I guess we're back to my first point. Fair enough.

43 minutes ago, Brian Cronin said:

Wait, wait, the baby DIDN'T die? What kind of unexpected turn of events THAT was! Who could have possibly predicted that besides everyone who has ever watched a TV show, play, movie or read any fiction ever? My mind is BLOWN!!!

But did you know that Monsieur Baudin was from Wichita, Kansas? I bet not! Now that was a twist! His accent was hilarious.

Why did Carrie Coon want to refer to it as the "Middle West" though? Is that what they called the Midwest in 1882 or what an Englishman thinks that what Americans refer to the Midwest as?

17 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Exactly. I get that he's acting like a guy who cares about society but you'd think a former slave would have a little too much real life experience to casually rehome somebody's baby.

Not just somebody's baby but his own daughter's baby! His own and only grandson for crying out loud! The last person I can see doing that is a former slave. His motives make no sense either, to me. Peggy was married so there was no shame until he forced an annulment.

My favorite line of the night was from Agnes, natch. Sorry if I butcher it. "And you are the last man I would allow to insult me!"

[AuntTora]

19 minutes ago, RachelKM said:

Marian got away with being a total idiot and willfully blind in the face of multiple warnings and red flags with ZERO consequences.

Pending any uterine secrets.

[Brian Cronin]

43 minutes ago, Jordan Baker said:

The moment between Bridget and Jack, with the "anything is possible in America" line, which I think was written to be optimistic and hopeful, just made me sad. 

I wish instead of talking about how great New York City was, Jack should have started singing about wanting to go to Santa Fe, "You keep your small life in a big city, give me a big life in a small town. They say folks is dying to get here me I'm dying to get away. To a little town out west that spanking new. And while I ain't never been there I can see it clear as day. If you want, I betchu you can see it too. Close your eyes come with me, where it's clean and green and pretty and they went and made a city outta clay haha. Why the minute that you get there folks will walk right up and say welcome home son welcome home to Santa Fe." 

By the way, I didn't recall that the dude in Newsies is actually even NAMED Jack! 

[Brian Cronin]

3 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I don't understand Raikes motives at all. I think we are supposed to believe that he really loves her but loves money more. OK. Still, why push for marriage so quickly? Excuse my crudeness but did he just want to get his dick wet? He tried to get into her hotel room and when that didn't work he goes for marriage knowing that's the only way to get her into bed? And why her? He's been hanging out with a bunch of rich eligible women, what was so compelling about Marion that made him still want her so bad even without money? Oh, I guess we're back to my first point. Fair enough.

57 minutes ago, Brian Cronin said:

I'm not saying that it is convincing, but his theory was that he kept getting tempted by all of these rich folks who wanted him to marry their rich daughters, so he was hoping that if they married quickly, he could avoid temptation, but since they didn't marry quickly enough, it was too late. Again, not saying it makes a ton of sense, but that's the idea. 

[sistermagpie]

1 minute ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Marion is truly dumber than a box of rocks. She claimed this episode that Raikes didn't care about "society," um say what now? Have you not been paying attention this entire season Marion? She's seen him at the opera flirting with some chick, knew he went to the Edison lighting with some date, and just generally knew he was having the time of his life in society. What a dolt. She is going to make some man very happy because he'll be able to cheat on her left and right and she won't even notice.

Plus the last time they met at Mrs. Chamberlain's he was going on and on about what was going on in society!

1 minute ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I don't understand Raikes motives at all. I think we are supposed to believe that he really loves her but loves money more. OK. Still, why push for marriage so quickly? Excuse my crudeness but did he just want to get his dick wet? He tried to get into her hotel room and when that didn't work he goes for marriage knowing that's the only way to get her into bed? And why her? He's been hanging out with a bunch of rich eligible women, what was so compelling about Marion that made him still want her so bad even without money? Oh, I guess we're back to my first point. Fair enough.

Seriously, I do not get what he was supposed to be thinking. Why was he creating problems for himself for no reason? He could have just stopped being so pushy and wound up married to somebody else. Instead it's like he just didn't notice that the two plans he was working on were in direct opposition to each other. Like the two of them had everything aligned to make things easy on them and they both insisted on creating a problem out of nothing.

1 minute ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

But did you know that Monsieur Baudin was from Wichita, Kansas? I bet not! Now that was a twist! His accent was hilarious.

Why did Carrie Coon want to refer to it as the "Middle West" though? Is that what they called the Midwest in 1882 or what an Englishman thinks that what Americans refer to the Midwest as?

I do think they used to call it that. 

1 minute ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Not just somebody's baby but his own daughter's baby! His own and only grandson for crying out loud! The last person I can see doing that is a former slave. His motives make no sense either, to me. Peggy was married so there was no shame until he forced an annulment.

My favorite line of the night was from Agnes, natch. Sorry if I butcher it. "And you are the last man I would allow to insult me!"

Yes, he's another person who created a huge issue to solve a smaller problem. Is this guy supposed to be as obsessed with social climbing as Bertha that he can't bear his daughter married to a pharmacist? And so in response he makes her an unwed mother with an illegitimate child. Good plan!

6 minutes ago, Brian Cronin said:

By the way, I didn't recall that the dude in Newsies is actually even NAMED Jack! 

I think he'd have to be by law.

2 minutes ago, Brian Cronin said:

I'm not saying that it is convincing, but his theory was that he kept getting tempted by all of these rich folks who wanted him to marry their rich daughters, so he was hoping that if they married quickly, he could avoid temptation, but since they didn't marry quickly enough, it was too late. Again, not saying it makes a ton of sense, but that's the idea. 

Same logic at work again. He can feel that he's quickly realizing he loves money and society more than that girl he's been pursuing, so decides to marry her fast. That way he can long for money and society while trapped in an unhappy marriage and probably blame his wife for it. Problem created where none existed before!

[Brn2bwild]

This was a pleasant, but somewhat underwhelming episode.

It's so strange that Marian has had no other suitors than Raikes and Larry (?).  She has no personal fortune, but she's a socially out attractive young woman from an old money family.  You'd think she'd have been everywhere and had several admirers.  Instead it's the Russells - the family supposedly shut out by New York society - who seem to be everywhere.

If there was no big twist, I was hoping for at least a big moment of reflection from Marian along the lines of "I got so swept up in marrying Mr. Raikes because I just wanted to feel something since my father died.  My life before was spent taking care of him.  Now I don't know who I am."

Bertha's ascent felt too smooth and easy, and not satisfying because I still don't like her.  Maybe one of her "old friends" will pay a visit next season and we'll learn it's Martha Levinson!

At least now Gladys can wear her hair up.

[Athena5217]

I wish we had more ball and no fake French chef story tonight.

Oscar does not know how to flirt with women. He sounded creepy insisting Gladys dance with him after she told him she needed to change. I loved that she told him she had enough of being told what to do. I think she is too clever to be fooled by him.

As the only single, heterosexual (we assume), unrelated male left, Larry seems destined to end up with Marion. Maybe she will be more interesting with him next season.

[AntFTW]

4 minutes ago, Athena5217 said:

As the only single, heterosexual (we assume), unrelated male left, Larry seems destined to end up with Marion. Maybe she will be more interesting with him next season.

I kinda feel like they're gonna have Marian crying over Raikes next season. I will gladly fast forward through that.

[Paws]

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I feel like we cannot discuss an episode without mentioning Marion's atrocious pale yellow ball gown that looked made her skin sallow and the red flower that made her look like a deer recently shot.  

Do the costumers hate Louisa Jacobsen? Everything she wore was so unflattering. Heavily pregnant Carrie coon looked  better and more put together.  Im glad to see someone found the possible inspiration for the dress above but it looked absolutely horrible on the actress. She’s way too pale to pull that off without getting washed out. The actress who plays Miss Scott would look awesome in it and also be able to act the part.

[AZChristian]

I must officially admit that I was totally wrong about the Raikes story line.  He wasn't trying to steal Marian's money (apparently, there really was none).  He's just an asshole.

[Chippings]

44 minutes ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

Inspiration for Marian’s dress? 🤔

John Singer Sargent's Madame Paul Poirson

Well, Y E S .   As a former costume designer, in the teeny-tiniest way, I can say that the designer surely looked at images of the period and decided to do this one nearly exactly.  I imagine she/he would be very pleased to see that somebody appreciated that.  

[peridot]

Ada is very sharp!  She was completely right that being sneaky and underhanded around Agnes would never be forgiven.  Marian was a fool, especially since it turned out she was waiting for hours at Mrs. Chamberlain's.  I wished she showed more anger towards Raikes, especially since he showed up at the ball on someone else's arm and had the nerve to approach her.  She doesn't express any strong emotions, it's hard to feel anything about her.

Peggy's father is such an evil asshole.  He was completely unrepentant about deceiving Peggy in such a way.  I don't see how his marriage would recover from something like that.

I laughed at the grimace Bertha had when she heard the chef speak in his natural voice.  I also laughed when I saw John Adams shoot Oscar an evil look when he was talking to Gladys.  He has such a villainous look!

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, Brian Cronin said:

Dropping in the French chef plot into the season finale is super odd. 

Perhaps, but it was entertaining.  The rent-a-chef getting drunk seemed to be lifted straight out of Fawlty Towers.

1 hour ago, Straycat80 said:

what was the point of Raikes and Marian? Why did he ask her to elope knowing she had no money and that is what he was after in the first place. That was a dumb storyline.

it made no sense at all unless Marion had money he was keeping secret from her.  Why would he rush her into marriage if he thought he had a chance with Miss Moneybags?  I hope he gets dumped and his name smeared when she finds out he's a gold digger.  Then he'll come crawling back to Marion.  Not sure I trust her to resist him.  It would be nice if she does.  What made the whole thing even more unbelievable is Marion's lack of reaction.

[buttersister]

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The Russells’ blackmailing of literally everyone with any influence to come to Gladys’ ball really kind of awesome

So which one of them taught that tactic to the other? Or did they each come up with it on their own and is that the root of their twue love and maaaaariage?

Marion and Raikeszzzzzzzz. Don't care. Never did. Never will.

[Daisychain]

First, I really did love the ball scene, if not the sallow yellow gown.

Second, and I'm not sure I'm recalling this correctly, but is it possible Aurora Fane had the 2nd greatest character development over the season (after Peggy)?  She started out married into the anti-George Russell train/subway double-cross, but winds up venturing to Mrs. Chamberlain's house to save Marion's caboose.  Thanks Aurora!

Oof, my parents lived in Wichita for more than 35 years.  There is some great cooking there, especially Lebanese and steaks, of course!