S04.E08: How Do You Get to Carnegie Hall?

[SnarkShark]

55 minutes ago, chessiegal said:

It wasn't pills. It was a vial of liquid and a vial with a syringe. I assume it was heroin which he was known to use.

And something that can't be confused for something harmless.  Pills mostly look the same, legit ones for medical conditions vs. ones being abused.  Injectible stuff, outside of Insulin, is inevitably something a normal person wouldn't have.  In 1960, Insulin hadn't even been synthecized yet.  

[debraran]

3 hours ago, chessiegal said:

It wasn't pills. It was a vial of liquid and a vial with a syringe. I assume it was heroin which he was known to use.

I thought for a minute it was legal because the presentation was like a diabetic but then knowing his real history, sadly not the case.

[debraran]

2 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

I KNOW! The heat, the intensity, the way David looked at Maddie until that moment. Major smoldering. (I realize this is about Moonlighting and off topic. Apologies for that). 

I had a different take on Mei in that scene. I agree with you that has zero intention of becoming a wife and stepmother. I think she has no idea how to tell them she is going to have an abortion. It would be illegal, but based on all of her medical connections, it would be as safe as possible under the circumstances. 

Between those scenes in Miami and the scenes in the hotel room, nothing was going to live up to expectations.  

 

That's all I kept thinking about, re abortion. Would she say she miscarried?

[Sarah 103]

2 minutes ago, debraran said:

That's all I kept thinking about, re abortion. Would she say she miscarried?

Probably. I don't know what might go wrong fairly early in a pregnancy that could cause the end of the pregngancy, but her cover story would be something like that. 

[AuntieMame]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

When Midge found pills (?) in Lenny's bathroom, was that meant to me a reference to his drug addiction? What kind of drugs was he addicted to?

I think it was supposed to be a vial of heroin and that the scene and shape of the bag was meant to suggest a syringe without blatantly showing us the syringe as a reference to Bruce’s heroin addiction. 
 

As for the club being raided, I thought that it was the success that Midge  brought to the club that sparked the raid. It’s customary for quasi legal venues to pay the police off to look the other way. The raid is probably an attempt to increase the amount the police are paid based on the increase in receipts. Or a warning to tone it back down to a dark, mediocre burlesque house which could be ignored. Midge bringing in upscale clientele including women means the club can’t just be ignored. Just my take. 

[AuntieMame]

10 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

Probably. I don't know what might go wrong fairly early in a pregnancy that could cause the end of the pregngancy, but her cover story would be something like that. 

The medical causes of first trimester  spontaneous abortion usually aren’t known. Sometimes nature just culls a pregnancy that isn’t viable for whatever reason. It’s more common than people realize but because it’s so often a source of emotional pain and sometimes shame, people don’t really talk about it. 

[brillia79]

11 hours ago, AuntieMame said:

Therefore I don’t think that Mei as a medical student would have had an easier time finding the Pill, a highly experimental drug not yet fully approved, considered scandalous and at the time very dangerous. Early formulations of the pill gave women blood clots and strokes and several other life threatening side effects. At this time, birth control was only prescribed to married women and even then the woman and her motives were scrutinized with the prescribing physician deciding whether her reasons were good enough. Had she provided “enough” children”? Did her husband agree to the use of birth control? 

Yep. There was an episode of Mad Men (maybe the first episode) where Joan took Peggy to the doctor to get her on the pill. The prescribing doctor said he would take her off it if he felt like she was abusing it (by having sex). And this was from a doctor who generally looked the other way for pay.

[chessiegal]

2 hours ago, AuntieMame said:

I think it was supposed to be a vial of heroin and that the scene and shape of the bag was meant to suggest a syringe without blatantly showing us the syringe as a reference to Bruce’s heroin addiction. 
 

They clearly showed the syringe. It was in another gIass case next to the vial of liquid. I watched it twice to be sure.

[AuntieMame]

34 minutes ago, brillia79 said:

Yep. There was an episode of Mad Men (maybe the first episode) where Joan took Peggy to the doctor to get her on the pill. The prescribing doctor said he would take her off it if he felt like she was abusing it (by having sex). And this was from a doctor who generally looked the other way for pay.

I thought of that episode too. One wonders just how the doctor would know if Peggy was ‘abusing’ the pill. As I recall the doctor also advised Peggy not to feel she had to become the town pump in order to get her money’s worth. That doctor was lovely. /s Poor Peggy. That guy date raped her and she got pregnant before she had taken the pill long enough for it to be effective. As badly as I thought Mad Men handled that storyline, Peggy’s life was essentially ruined by her unplanned pregnancy. 

I’m wondering if other posters are right and Mei was conflicted about her pregnancy and Midge’s dose of reality put Mei into full fledged panic about just what that pregnancy is going to mean for Mei. Medical school is over. She’s a wife, mother and stepmother now. I’m not certain Mei’s parents will be overjoyed about this news either. I hope she doesn’t get hurt having an illegal abortion.

I remember my dad telling me that he could remember reading in the Chicago papers of a woman dying almost weekly from complications of illegal abortion. It turned my dad (not generally one to think about women’s issues it just wouldn’t occur to him) into a lifelong pro-life guy. 
But yeah, poor Mei was horrified about a life in the Midge clan. 
 

Edited March 14, 2022 by AuntieMame

[AuntieMame]

5 minutes ago, chessiegal said:

They clearly showed the syringe. It was in another gIass case next to the vial of liquid. I watched it twice to be sure.

Thanks. I looked but couldn’t see the syringe but assumed it was heroin especially with Lenny’s reaction. 

[brillia79]

8 minutes ago, AuntieMame said:

Thanks. I looked but couldn’t see the syringe but assumed it was heroin especially with Lenny’s reaction. 

I get that they had to make it obvious it was heroin, but was/is heroin available as a liquid injectable? All my movie knowledge is of heroin in powder form or crystal form that has to be cooked and injected.

[theredhead77]

This story was stellar. I just re-watched episode 1 and everyone has come so far. 

My other take-away is Lenny is 110% in love with Midge and I'd be perfectly happy if this show chooses an alternate time-line where Lenny is alive and he and Midge live happily ever after to an old age. Between the smoldering looks from Lenny and some other situations it's been a tough week for my "never having kids" ovaries. 

[AuntieMame]

26 minutes ago, brillia79 said:

I get that they had to make it obvious it was heroin, but was/is heroin available as a liquid injectable? All my movie knowledge is of heroin in powder form or crystal form that has to be cooked and injected.

I thought the vial looked like white powder. But I missed the syringe so what do I know, lol. If it was indeed liquid it could be morphine in solution which addicts like but is difficult to obtain. 

[Sarah 103]

1 hour ago, AuntieMame said:

I hope she doesn’t get hurt having an illegal abortion.

She knows way too many doctors/nurses for that to be a problem. If she gets one, it's going to be illegal, but safe. It will be done by a trained medical professional. 

1 hour ago, theredhead77 said:

My other take-away is Lenny is 110% in love with Midge and I'd be perfectly happy if this show chooses an alternate time-line where Lenny is alive and he and Midge live happily ever after to an old age.

Lenny is totally in love with Midge. Usually love makes people/characters stupid but he is that rare character/person who it has not. He knows a serious long term relationship with Midge is like the third or fourth chocolate covered marshmellow. It looks great, you may want it, you may enjoy it, but you know it will be something you regret and something that will not end well, and therefore he avoids it. 

[Insert Username]

God, Midge just can’t help herself can she? She could have made up some funny, cute, slightly risqué story about the lucky dress, but oh no, she just has to tell a roomful of club women and Jackie freaking Kennedy that she had a one night stand with a married man. WTF? It reminds me of when she ruined her coworker’s wedding reception.

I also loved Susie finally calling Midge on her shit and not being at her beck and call. Midge never once considers what turning down these gigs means for Susie’s finances too. And now Susie has other clients and can’t give Midge all of her attention. I love the chaos of the office and her growing crew.

Lenny’s takedown was epic. 

I don’t understand Mei and Joel. They have no chemistry. One minute she is panicked but the next she is shown as Joel’s rock. The character was not given much depth…would she really be so dense about the fact that Joel’s kids would be with them sometimes?Andno one considered how Mei’s family might feel about her marrying a white man? They might forbid it. According to Susie’s boys, her family terrifies the Italian mob.

[bybrandy]

Jane Ginsburg was born in 1955 while both her parents were in law school.  It isn't like there haven't always been women who bucked the trend and managed to make a situation work.  I just don't see Mei there being somebody is going to make that choice.  I still think she's leaning towards abortion because I don't think she's okay with the intense level of compromise coming her way otherwise.  Joel is planning on marriage and the baby because Joel hasn't considered the alternative, but at the very least Mei is considering the alternatives.

I don't know how likely or not Mei would be to get the pill unmarried in 1960.  My mom was in college when her first three children were born in 58, 59, and 62 and went on the pill immediately after my brother was born in 62.  She used a diaphragm prior to that but found it impractical for reasons that I could explain but you'd probably prefer I didn't.  She credits the pill with saving her life.  She graduated with a math degree just a semester later than her husband and they both became computer programmers.  He was recruited and the need was growing so much faster than qualified candidates they asked him if he knew anybody and he was like, "My wife is about to graduate..."  Cue a 50 year career that supported all 5 of her children.  

For Mei, Shirley would probably happily have them move in or move in with them and be full time child care... but again... I mean she seemed shocked about the idea that she was going to have to interact with Joel's kids.  She isn't thinking about her future if they have this baby.  

[debraran]

Besides abortion or some trick that wont work to end it (I hope they don't go here) she can have a spontaneous miscarriage which is common for many or maybe is thinking adoption but I doubt it. She's too smart to not plan, so short of being in shock, her odd expression leaves me feeling something else. They aren't communicating well but although Joel is trying to be supportive, "We will do this", he's not listening either. I'll give him a pass, he had his dad ill but we will see what happens. Why the writers wanted the mixed marriage AND that, IDK, but leave unplanned pregnancy to Call The Midwife (another great show) and the outcome. This show should be about Midge and close family.

 

[Daff]

18 hours ago, iMonrey said:

don't get how this works. If the club is illegal how is it managing to get by for so long before finally getting raided? 

I assumed that they turned a blind eye as there were a handful of patrons early on with correspondingly little profit. Once the changes were made, traffic picked up significantly, drawing unwanted attention. This could be especially true if police in that precinct were on the take. Little in the till at the onset, but now, more money to demand a cut. 

[Pallas]

Please discuss the full season or the show as a whole in Season 4 General Discussion. This topic is for discussing the episode. 

 

[Clanstarling]

16 hours ago, AuntieMame said:

The medical causes of first trimester  spontaneous abortion usually aren’t known. Sometimes nature just culls a pregnancy that isn’t viable for whatever reason. It’s more common than people realize but because it’s so often a source of emotional pain and sometimes shame, people don’t really talk about it. 

Yeah, I learned how common it is after I'd already told everyone about my pregnancy. I learned to wait until the end of the first trimester after that.

14 hours ago, brillia79 said:

Yep. There was an episode of Mad Men (maybe the first episode) where Joan took Peggy to the doctor to get her on the pill. The prescribing doctor said he would take her off it if he felt like she was abusing it (by having sex). And this was from a doctor who generally looked the other way for pay.

When I was divorced in the early 80's, the male gyno did not want to prescribe me the pill - he thought I should use condoms for the few occasions I would have sex. I basically ordered him to write a prescription, which he did under some protest. (not that it matters, they didn't come in handy for quite awhile, I have always been a person who wants to be prepared).

PBS has a timeline of birth control history. Here's 1960. It is possible Mei could have gotten some given her field of study, but it seems unlikely she would have to me.

Quote

1960
With an eye on maximizing profits, Searle attempts to license lower doses of Enovid (2.5 and 5 milligram doses), but the FDA demands complete field trials for the lower dose versions as well.

Winter: The FDA reviews Searle's application for the first drug in history to be given to a healthy person for long-term use. Searle is doing $37 million in annual sales of the Pill for "menstrual disorders" and pushes the FDA for approval.

April: John Rock tells the national press that the Pill, since it simply extends a woman's "safe period," should be considered an extension of the Vatican-approved rhythm method.

May 11: Searle receives FDA approval to sell Enovid as a birth control pill. Searle is the first and only pharmaceutical company to sell an oral contraceptive and it has a lucrative monopoly.

It is with some irony that it was used first for menstrual disorders instead of birth control, and some of the current people against the Pill assume the pill is only for sexual activity and ignore  the fact that it continues to be used for menstrual disorders as well (such has endometriosis and fibroids I think - I forget which one my daughter has, but without the pill she's in a great deal of pain).

Edited March 14, 2022 by Clanstarling

[Suzn]

10 hours ago, Insert Username said:

God, Midge just can’t help herself can she? She could have made up some funny, cute, slightly risqué story about the lucky dress, but oh no, she just has to tell a roomful of club women and Jackie freaking Kennedy that she had a one night stand with a married man. WTF? It reminds me of when she ruined her coworker’s wedding reception.

Midge has her head up her ass and can't read the room.  Those club women were almost certainly all married (maybe a widow or two) and would not be amused by a story of Midge having sex with a married man.  In fact I really doubt they would appreciate a story of her having sex at all.

I can't speak for a sophisticated crowd in NYC in 1960, but in general people may have been having lots of unmarried sex, but they weren't openly talking about it.

Edited March 14, 2022 by Suzn

[kwnyc]

On 3/12/2022 at 12:17 AM, quangtran said:

I thought it became clear as the season went on that the theme of the season was women.

Yes. Women and The Mob. Susie's in with them now (and the boys "encouraging" Midge to open for Tony Bennett could get rough quickly).

Mei's family is the downtown Mob, and even Susie's guys were afraid of them.

Presumably it was the Mob that wants Shy to stay firmly closeted with no trace of his former associates around.

And, then there's the matchmaking mafia...

One thing I DIDN'T believe is Abe giving Rose her own stationary. He's a physical coward, and does not like anything that makes him upset.

Moishe's near-death experience was just the way to get everyone to realize how much they appreciate him and need him. Even self-centered Abe. 

I still don't think Mei is going to have Joel's baby. It would make it impossible for her to complete med school and do a residency. (And what if she gets a residency outside of NYC?) And she did look thunderstruck at everyone's assumption that she's going to be a wife, mom and step-mother.

As for Midge & Lenny, he's done so much for her...and historically, we know he's going to be dead in six years. :-( It seems like Midge found his works in the bathroom, and knows he's doing drugs. 

On the one hand, I agree with him that you have to work the system to get up in it. On the other hand, Midge has had enough of eating shit, and wants to find her own way. In the theater, she'd be an actor who doesn't want to play the same old roles on Broadway and TV, but ends up doing experimental theater or founding a company that achieves her vision...(I am indie theater ride or die, so I see people like this all the time). 

The war in Midge, since the first episode has been between the Good Girl and the Berserker. Lenny's a Berserker, too, but he's a guy. A woman couldn't do the things Lenny does, though they eventually lead to his death. The strip club was a place where Midge was surrounded by women, was able to manage the men into making it a safe space (of a sort), and do her work the way she wanted to. 

(And presumably, the mob didn't pay the cops enough protection to keep them from raiding the place.) 

I won't speculate much as this isn't the place, but I feel like next season is probably going to be a few years in the future, with flashbacks depicting the years between 1960 and, say, 1970 or so.

 

[pasdetrois]

17 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

She knows way too many doctors/nurses for that to be a problem. If she gets one, it's going to be illegal, but safe. It will be done by a trained medical professional. 

I learned recently that a childhood friend's big sister had a safe abortion in the late 1960s. Her medical student husband performed the procedure in their kitchen. If she wishes to, medical student Mei can find a way.

Luke Kirby did a swell job not turning the Bruce portrayal into a caricature. 

At the end of this season, I enjoyed the burlesque routines more than anything else. They had some fantastic dancers play those parts. The bathtub performance was awesome.

I wondered if the magician was gender fluid, but settled on a "him." What a weird character.

Edited March 14, 2022 by pasdetrois

[kwnyc]

56 minutes ago, pasdetrois said:

I wondered if the magician was gender fluid, but settled on a "him." What a weird character.

"What's it all About, Alfie?" ;-)

[theredhead77]

2 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

I enjoyed the burlesque routines more than anything else. They had some fantastic dancers play those parts. The bathtub performance was awesome.

What I liked most about the burlesque show, and the "titty show" is the casting of women of multiple sizes. 

 

21 hours ago, AuntieMame said:

Thanks. I looked but couldn’t see the syringe but assumed it was heroin especially with Lenny’s reaction. 

I loved that he didn't get angry. Just took the case, told Midge that wasn't for her, all was well (lies!), let her know they needed to go bail people out and he'd take her out for food after. 

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

I learned recently that a childhood friend's big sister had a safe abortion in the late 1960s. Her medical student husband performed the procedure in their kitchen.  If she wishes to, medical student Mei can find a way.

More like: If the Palladinos want Mei to find a way, she will.
With regards to you childhood friend's sister: Not all medical students are created equal, IMO; she was lucky.

 

3 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

Luke Kirby did a swell job not turning the Bruce portrayal into a caricature. 

Excellent point! It's hard not to just swoon at Luke Kirby's portrayal and admire the acting for its nuance.

 

3 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

At the end of this season, I enjoyed the burlesque routines more than anything else. They had some fantastic dancers play those parts. The bathtub performance was awesome.

I agree the burlesque routines were fantastically performed, choreographed, and cast, with perfect wardrobing. 
But I also agree with those who felt the total percentage of time spent on the burlesque routines was disproportionate to their importance to the story.

[Claire85]

Anyone else have the cuckoo song from the closing stuck in their head? No, just me? Carry on. 
 

ETA it’s called “Friday Afternoons (Cuckoo)” by Benjamin Britten. 

Edited March 14, 2022 by Claire85
Typo

[shapeshifter]

11 minutes ago, Claire85 said:

Anyone else have the cuckoo song from the closing stuck in their head? No, just me? Carry on. 

No, but every time this thread comes to the top of my stream, I hear in my head: 

• How do you get to Carnegie Hall?
• Practice. Practice. Practice.

https://www.carnegiehall.org/Explore/Articles/2020/04/10/The-Joke

[MaryHedwig]

On 3/13/2022 at 9:12 AM, Clanstarling said:

That final scene with him was everything. This season there were , for me, only three memorable scenes - Susie's funeral scene, Abe and Moishe in this episode, and Lenny's scene. I thought it was in general a meh season. Everything blends together and we nearly stopped watching the show entirely.

You forgot to mention the Dorothy in Kansas strip scene! (I am kidding but I am impressed that someone thought they could go there.)

[Carolina Girl]

On 3/14/2022 at 4:54 AM, Daff said:

I assumed that they turned a blind eye as there were a handful of patrons early on with correspondingly little profit. Once the changes were made, traffic picked up significantly, drawing unwanted attention. This could be especially true if police in that precinct were on the take. Little in the till at the onset, but now, more money to demand a cut. 

Or a rival joint, jealous of their success, might have arranged for THEIR police protection unit to stage a raid.  

Oh, and I'm calling bullshit on Susie not having somewhere to bring Gordon Ford to see Midge.  Joel would have turned over the stage to her for a set anytime she wanted.  

[The Mighty Peanut]

On 3/13/2022 at 8:42 PM, brillia79 said:

I get that they had to make it obvious it was heroin, but was/is heroin available as a liquid injectable? All my movie knowledge is of heroin in powder form or crystal form that has to be cooked and injected.

You have to cook it to a liquid in order to inject it, maybe there is such a thing as precooked? Medical morphine and fentynal are delivered in a drip, I suppose heroin would be no different. 

This was a strange time for hard drugs. Post prohibition, pre-Vietnam, pre-opiate crisis. Perhaps it would have been easier to procure.

I probably should have googled before posting but where's the fun in that?

Edited March 17, 2022 by The Mighty Peanut

[haje]

I won't lie I pretty much just put this show on as background so I can barely remember what happens in the show anymore but I do pay far more attention when Luke Kirby shows up. The dude has IT. I do wonder if the Palladino's regret not just casting him as a character inspired by Lenny Bruce. From what I remember he was meant to be more of a cameo role in that first season but they expanded his role, they obviously couldn't have predicted the kind of chemistry he would have with Brosnahan although I'm sure a part of my enjoyment of the character is that he doesn't overstay his welcome. Just comes in, does some very good romantic gazing and good banter with Midge, gives her some advice but also isn't afraid to call her out when needed and then leave us wanting more. They gave Kirby a hell of a showcase in this episode and he nailed it.  

Edited March 16, 2022 by haje

[Daff]

On 3/14/2022 at 3:43 PM, kwnyc said:

"What's it all About, Alfie?" ;-)

In my mind, I’m going with bipolar (aka, manic-depression) with mild anxiety. Just don’t want the future to reveal that he’s a dangerous psychopath. He’s kind of like a cute, but mischievous puppy. It seems that’s the way Susie treats him-but she’s not always the best judge of character. 

[whiporee]

On 3/13/2022 at 6:42 PM, brillia79 said:

I get that they had to make it obvious it was heroin, but was/is heroin available as a liquid injectable? All my movie knowledge is of heroin in powder form or crystal form that has to be cooked and injected.

Probably morphine, which is almost always liquid. That was a prescription or something taken from a pharmacy, not street drugs. 

[kittykat]

I was already happy with the episode but ending the season with Sparks was icing on the snowstorm cake.

I do hope Midge can still find a way to do the Bennett shows now that she's received the 3rd degree from Lenny but I'm assuming another break is coming instead.

Between Rose's set last episode and all things Lenny this time, I think Marin Hinkle and Luke Kirby are going to have some nice Emmy reals.

[gorgy]

First off, eight episodes is not a season. Quality wise, it felt like they were finally getting in a good groove after a rollercoaster start.

• I'm happy they gave Shirley a scene she can act in with Abe. I know the character is meant to be abrasive and is there for comic fodder, but I always thought there was more she could do as an actress, and she really came through. 
• Susie's second line being a clothesline was amusing. Plus, the one mafia guy mentioning how the the woman on the other end of the clothesline's boss "paints houses" for them is a sly nod to the mafia, which is amusing in its own demented way.
• I'm never not amused by the sheer ambivalence to child raising on this show, but what's up with Archie and Imogen's young ones? Archie working at the club at night and presumably still has his day job, and now Imogen working days as a personal assistant to Abe, who I imagine is very needy, like where are the children? I don't think they're even school age. I know they had to come up with some excuse to have Archie and Imogen do something on the show, but they could just be friends that occasionally hang out. 
• The chock-full-of-whimsy strip club setting was a fun detour in the life of Midge, but it's time to move on. Goodbye Boise, we hardly knew ye.
• I have nothing to add that hasn't already been said about Luke Kirby's Lenny Bruce performance. Good stuff as usual.
• Between Susie's mafia connections, Mei's shady underground family, and The Matchmakers, a lot of interesting parties intertwined with  the lead characters. I wonder if they'll all interact next season. 
• It's a shame this show is ending after next season. It's finally starting to feel, for me at least, something more substantial. At the beginning, it came off as a premium-cable Gilmore Girls where the Palladinos were finally allowed to say fuck, but this season has been a bit more dramatic and the show is all the better for it.
• I don't know the first thing about camera trickery other than knowing when I like it. This episode - I liked it.

Edited March 17, 2022 by gorgy

[kwnyc]

48 minutes ago, gorgy said:

I'm happy they gave Shirley a scene she can act in with Abe. I know the character is meant to be abrasive and is there for comic fodder, but I always thought there was more she could do as an actress, and she really came through. 

You're not going to see better acting than that scene. Beautifully played!

[luvthepros]

On 3/15/2022 at 5:07 PM, Carolina Girl said:

Or a rival joint, jealous of their success, might have arranged for THEIR police protection unit to stage a raid.  

Oh, and I'm calling bullshit on Susie not having somewhere to bring Gordon Ford to see Midge.  Joel would have turned over the stage to her for a set anytime she wanted.  

Others have said same, myself included. Agree......BS.

[luvthepros]

3 hours ago, gorgy said:

First off, eight episodes is not a season. Quality wise, it felt like they were finally getting in a good groove after a rollercoaster start.

• I'm happy they gave Shirley a scene she can act in with Abe. I know the character is meant to be abrasive and is there for comic fodder, but I always thought there was more she could do as an actress, and she really came through. 
• Susie's second line being a clothesline was amusing. Plus, the one mafia guy mentioning how the the woman on the other end of the clothesline's boss "paints houses" for them is a sly nod to the mafia, which is amusing in its own demented way.
• I'm never not amused by the sheer ambivalence to child raising on this show, but what's up with Archie and Imogen's young ones? Archie working at the club at night and presumably still has his day job, and now Imogen working days as a personal assistant to Abe, who I imagine is very needy, like where are the children? I don't think they're even school age. I know they had to come up with some excuse to have Archie and Imogen do something on the show, but they could just be friends that occasionally hang out. 
• The chalk-full-of-whimsy strip club setting was a fun detour in the life of Midge, but it's time to move on. Goodbye Boise, we hardly knew ye.
• I have nothing to add that hasn't already been said about Luke Kirby's Lenny Bruce performance. Good stuff as usual.
• Between Susie's mafia connections, Mei's shady underground family, and The Matchmakers, a lot of interesting parties intertwined with  the lead characters. I wonder if they'll all interact next season. 
• It's a shame this show is ending after next season. It's finally starting to feel, for me at least, something more substantial. At the beginning, it came off as a premium-cable Gilmore Girls where the Palladinos were finally allowed to say fuck, but this season has been a bit more dramatic and the show is all the better for it.
• I don't know the first thing about camera trickery other than knowing when I like it. This episode - I liked it.

Kindly remind me......what camera trickery do you speak of?

2 hours ago, kwnyc said:

You're not going to see better acting than that scene. Beautifully played!

Agree. Was nice to see the actress/comedian had some meat to work with.

[gorgy]

12 hours ago, luvthepros said:

Kindly remind me......what camera trickery do you speak of?

I don't think "trickery" is the right word, but mostly how certain scenes were filmed. Something like how the camera would pan and circle around Lenny when he was calling Midge out after his set on stage, instead of doing like a sitcom-y back-and-forth camera cut for reaction shots. It just made it seem more intimate. Like most things, I don't know what I'm talking about, but so often this show's camera work really helps elevate it and I generally don't know how to properly communicate that.

Edited March 17, 2022 by gorgy
clarity

[Suzn]

I have criticized this show a lot but I want to praise this episode for the scene with Abe reading Moishe's obituary.  It felt real and heartfelt and I particularly liked the looks Abe and Moishe exchanged.  There was more said in that look than words could have accomplished.  I loved Moishe mouthing "Thank you".  Wonderful moment. 

[Aulty]

14 hours ago, gorgy said:

First off, eight episodes is not a season.

Tell that to Sherlock fans who only got 3 episodes per season and always had to wait 2-3 years for the next one 😄

The shortened season came courtesy of Corona. As far as I know it was quite a challenge to get production going and they couldn't film everything on location as planned. That being said, in my opinion the problem is the season only had 4 episodes worth of story.

Edited March 17, 2022 by Aulty

[Blakeston]

A sitcom having roughly eight hours of content in a season is pretty good nowadays.

It's common for half-hour sitcoms to have only 10 episodes or so.

[Nicola]

When they first brought up the Tony Bennett thing I thought Midge turned it down because she got the offer since, essentially, a boy liked her. But the no opening thing? For Tony Bennett in 1960? STFU Midge, for real, and STFU show, for using the real-life character of Lenny Bruce to prop her overrated ass up. Lucille Ball played the system by marrying a genius and doing the part of a ditzy housewife; within a decade she'd parlayed that into being most powerful person in Hollywood, male or female. 

You can't beat the system if you're not infiltrating it. 

Edited March 18, 2022 by Nicola

[shapeshifter]

13 minutes ago, Nicola said:

When they first brought up the Tony Bennett thing I thought Midge turned it down because she got the offer since, essentially, a boy liked her. But the no opening thing? For Tony Bennett in 1960? STFU Midge, for real, and STFU show, for using the real-life character of Lenny Bruce to prop her overrated ass up. Lucille Ball played the system by marrying a genius and doing the part of a ditzy housewife; within a decade she'd parlayed that into being most powerful person in Hollywood, male or female. 

You can't beat the system if you're not infiltrating it. 

All of this post is true.
So, either Midge is going to end up a Nobody who could have been Somebody, or she'll get one more lucky break and not blow it.

[Sarah 103]

On 3/16/2022 at 8:03 PM, gorgy said:

I don't think "trickery" is the right word, but mostly how certain scenes were filmed. Something like how the camera would pan and circle around Lenny when he was calling Midge out after his set on stage, instead of doing like a sitcom-y back-and-forth camera cut for reaction shots. It just made it seem more intimate. Like most things, I don't know what I'm talking about, but so often this show's camera work really helps elevate it and I generally don't know how to properly communicate that.

Even though it's television, I do think cinematography, camera work, or editing are probably the best terms for what you are describing. I agree with you. Having the camera circling them increased the momentum and intensity of the scene. 

[Nicola]

Once again, zero consequences for Midge. Did she even tell Suzie about the debacle of the Jackie Kennedy luncheon? She called her right after and... I mean... it never even came up. Not to mention insulting Sophie multiple times to her face in front of a tourist-scrubbed studio audience. That storyline just... vanished.

Luke Kirby was such a smash in this episode that we need to make sure to remember how wonderful Abe, Shirley, and Moishe were as well. Those are adults acting!

[luvthepros]

On 3/16/2022 at 8:03 PM, gorgy said:

I don't think "trickery" is the right word, but mostly how certain scenes were filmed. Something like how the camera would pan and circle around Lenny when he was calling Midge out after his set on stage, instead of doing like a sitcom-y back-and-forth camera cut for reaction shots. It just made it seem more intimate. Like most things, I don't know what I'm talking about, but so often this show's camera work really helps elevate it and I generally don't know how to properly communicate that.

Thanks for the explanation!

Edited March 18, 2022 by luvthepros

[luvthepros]

10 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

Even though it's television, I do think cinematography, camera work, or editing are probably the best terms for what you are describing. I agree with you. Having the camera circling them increased the momentum and intensity of the scene. 

Agree.

[shapeshifter]

On 3/16/2022 at 3:58 PM, gorgy said:

I don't know the first thing about camera trickery other than knowing when I like it. This episode - I liked it.

On 3/16/2022 at 7:06 PM, luvthepros said:

Kindly remind me......what camera trickery do you speak of?

On 3/16/2022 at 8:03 PM, gorgy said:

I don't think "trickery" is the right word, but mostly how certain scenes were filmed. Something like how the camera would pan and circle around Lenny when he was calling Midge out after his set on stage,

"Trickery" was part of a Jeopardy! clue this past week. 
Perhaps you are a watcher and the term snuck into your psyche through osmosis? 🤔😉

Anyway, good point about how the camera work added to the scene.
I haven't re-watched,  but, IIRC, the panning of the camera added to the import of The Carnegie as a venue and as a worthy long-term goal, to be reached by "practice, practice, practice" (as the old adage goes) whether as an opening act for someone else or otherwise.