S04.E04: Interesting People on Christopher Street

[Pallas]

Midge establishes new rules. Susie gets a leg up from old friends. Abe has more in common with Asher than he thought.

[Aulty]

Why would Amazon only give the critics the first two, subpar, episodes to review when the second batch is SO much better. I'd even say that they could've covered everything from last week in one episode and then go straight to the good stuff.

During the final good bye from the strippers, right at the end, there was one covered in Tupperware which was hilarious 😅 (maybe she was also on in the first episode, but I didn't notice her).
Lenny is like a rash, appearing unannounced and then suddenly gone again.

I hope Suzie can turn her mob-backed business into something and gets to work with more people, so she isn't stuck with babysitting just Midge's career.
Abe's life keeps exploding like a clusterbomb. For someone with a background in mathematics, which requires rational thinking, he acts quite rash and not considering consequences, especially consequences that affect his family. Is Rose's matchmaking business over after the outrage over the musical review??

[Quilt Fairy]

8 hours ago, Aulty said:

During the final good bye from the strippers, right at the end, there was one covered in Tupperware which was hilarious 😅 (maybe she was also on in the first episode, but I didn't notice her).

I commented on it in the Ep3 thread, I lost track of where it was.  I'm glad I'm not the only one who caught it. 

8 hours ago, Aulty said:

I hope Suzie can turn her mob-backed business into something and gets to work with more people, so she isn't stuck with babysitting just Midge's career.

Did you catch the comment about Shy Baldwin?  "He's Giancanna's, we can't touch him."

[Sarah 103]

9 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Did you catch the comment about Shy Baldwin?  "He's Giancanna's, we can't touch him."

To me, that meant that couldn't go after Shy Baldwin. They're kind of like protective older brothers who will mess with anyone who hurts thier kid sister. Only in this case, they couldn't because of who he was connected to. 

18 hours ago, Aulty said:

I hope Suzie can turn her mob-backed business into something and gets to work with more people, so she isn't stuck with babysitting just Midge's career.

It's possible. She may be able to use her mob-backed business to get bookings for her acts. They couldn't pressure the Copacabana or a similar place to book of her acts as a headliner. They might be able to use thier connections to put pressure on the owner of a smaller club to book one of her acts once a week or once a month as the opening act. 

I loved Midge's set at the strip club about laundry and door to door salesmen. She's on her way to becoming more involved in the day to day running of the club. Not the business/financial side of it but the entertainment side. I could see her becoming something like a stage manager, except she'd need to hire someone to work backstage making sure the show runs more smoothly.  

Edited February 26, 2022 by Sarah 103

[jrzy]

Did anyone catch the what was happening with Susie's latest distastrous decision to rent an apartment from those mobsters?  She was too enamored with the view to hear what they were saying about having a little piece of her business,  she has no idea what she just got herself into.

I am getting a little tired of Susie's stupid choices,  isn't she supposed to be savvy?   Even played for a joke,  going to proverbial bed with 2 bad apples isn't going to turn out well.  My assumption is that they will want to share in her 10 percent and she just put her client at risk.

  

[shapeshifter]

6 minutes ago, jrzy said:

Did anyone catch the what was happening with Susie's latest distastrous decision to rent an apartment from those mobsters?  She was too enamored with the view to hear what they were saying about having a little piece of her business,  she has no idea what she just got herself into.

I am getting a little tired of Susie's stupid choices,  isn't she supposed to be savvy?   Even played for a joke,  going to proverbial bed with 2 bad apples isn't going to turn out well.  My assumption is that they will want to share in her 10 percent and she just put her client at risk.

While I don't care for those kind of plots either, I think it's par for the course with Susie, and, given that, I'd guess when it's all over she will break even, which means be broke again but not owe anybody anything. 🤷‍♀️

[jrzy]

1 minute ago, shapeshifter said:

While I don't care for those kind of plots either, I think it's par for the course with Susie, and, given that, I'd guess when it's all over she will break even, which means be broke again but not owe anybody anything. 🤷‍♀️

I actually should have put this comment in Ep 4,  but I think you probably are right,  Susie will learn some sort of lesson and come out okay.

[shapeshifter]

Copying over here where we belong:

32 minutes ago, jrzy said:

Did anyone catch the what was happening with Susie's latest distastrous decision to rent an apartment from those mobsters?  She was too enamored with the view to hear what they were saying about having a little piece of her business,  she has no idea what she just got herself into.

I am getting a little tired of Susie's stupid choices,  isn't she supposed to be savvy?   Even played for a joke,  going to proverbial bed with 2 bad apples isn't going to turn out well.  My assumption is that they will want to share in her 10 percent and she just put her client at risk.  

22 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

While I don't care for those kind of plots either, I think it's par for the course with Susie, and, given that, I'd guess when it's all over she will break even, which means be broke again but not owe anybody anything. 🤷‍♀️

20 minutes ago, jrzy said:

I actually should have put this comment in Ep 4,  but I think you probably are right,  Susie will learn some sort of lesson and come out okay.

But now I'm wondering if (using spoilers in case I'm prescient for once)...

Spoiler

...sadly wondering if the funeral in the previous episode followed by Susie getting mobbed up in this episode means that there will be a Chekhovian funeral in the series finale with Midge speaking for Susie 😥😭

 

[Lake Erie Lass]

Did anyone else think Lenny looked a lot thinner in Season 4 than when we last saw him?

Not sure whether his suits were roomier before, this season’s one was more fitted, if they’re alluding to drug use, or it’s just a coincidence…

Also, am so very tired of all the scenes with Abe. I don’t mind the family scenes in general, but giving him full story lines like his jealousy of Jason Alexander’s character and the FBI feels like the writers are grasping at straws. Keep the focus on the younger characters, please!

Also the whole Steiner play/church condemnation. Too much Abe this season.

[Sakura12]

These last 2 episodes were much better than the first 2. I was actually surprise when this one ended.

It seems like Midge found sometime for the dancers to rehearse the final number, is she changing her career to stage managing a burlesque club? 

Suzie's been in with these mobsters forever so it's not much different than before. They can probably can get her in places that she otherwise would not be able to get in and they implied that Shy is owned by another mobster. So that is the business. I also wonder if Suzie is Ace so she's not as interested in going on dates and finding someone like Midge is.

[bybrandy]

I also wondered about Suzie being ACE 

I almost didn't watch these because of that first episode but I'm super glad I did. 

I like Midge at the strip club and am excited for Suzie at the offices.  The mob guys aren't new.  

I could do without Jane Lynch and Joel but that is an always issue for me.

[kwnyc]

Abe is a selfish, vicious man. We've seen this in various ways throughout the first few seasons, but he NAMED NAMES to the FBI. By naming Asher as the guy who lit the fire, he did what the people who testified before the HUAC committee (just a few years before 1960), did. He also crushed the show he was sent to review. (Reality check: the Voice in 1960 was NOT an arbiter for NY theater. The Times, Herald-Tribute and a few other uptown dailies. The Voice was discovering off-off, and making celebrities of experimental theater artists and companies.)

(And yes, I think Buzz is gay: "roommate" and "dramaturge." Also not sure that "dramaturge" was a thing i 1960).

Just because Abe was jealous of Rose having gone out with Asher (when Abe broke up with her!). Damn, he is mean. In fact, he could have gotten Asher in a LOT of trouble.

Midge actually seems to be trying to work on/with other people. Standing up to Boise, and making the shows MUCH better, by advocating for safety and decent treatment of the women is the sort of thing she could end up being known for.

And, aw, she went looking for a lesbian bar for Susie! (John Waters was excellent in the scene...though I know someone who was up for the part who would have been to die for!) I flat out think Susie is a butch lesbian. But as close as she is to Midge, she does know that she could get in a lot of trouble, even if she's not famous. (I helped produce a play set in a lesbian bar in the late '50s, and another set on Christopher Street the first night of the Stonewall rebellion.)

Yep, Susie is very mobbed up. But in the way that was probably like many, many others who grew up in the Rockaways/Broad Channel, where it was a regular thing for many of the guys to become wise guys. The mob owned entertainers, and ran clubs, as we've already seen in Vegas. If Susie pays her "taste," it could work for her. If she can keep from gambling away everything she gets...

And here comes Sophie Lennon again! Susie actually COULD make some money if she got Sophie a gig on a game show, and Sophie kept it. And who called her "adopting" Alphie? You were right.

One thing that stuck with me through the first two episodes is that no one in the Weissman or Meisel family would be able to live their lives of relative ease without the help of working women who hold them up. That includes Zelda, Mei and Susie. There's an upstairs/downstairs quality to the show that may or may not be intentional, but The Weissmans and Maisels have a lot of privilege holding them up.

[Sarah 103]

51 minutes ago, kwnyc said:

Yep, Susie is very mobbed up. But in the way that was probably like many, many others who grew up in the Rockaways/Broad Channel, where it was a regular thing for many of the guys to become wise guys. The mob owned entertainers, and ran clubs, as we've already seen in Vegas. If Susie pays her "taste," it could work for her. If she can keep from gambling away everything she gets.

I think when it comes to gambling, Susie's learned her lesson. She will make the deals and arrangements, but all money will go to straight to Joel to manage/hold onto until it's needed for a business expense.

Susie is mobbed up, but I agree with you; between where she grew up and being in the entertainment industry at that time, it was almost inevitable. The mob pretty much ran Vegas during this era. In most other major cities, the mob was using nightclubs as a front or way to launder money earned from other illegal enterprises. 

[shapeshifter]

24 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

I think when it comes to gambling, Susie's learned her lesson.

That's not how addiction works in real life, but if it works that way on the show, I'm happy to be rid of that kind of drama. 
Sometimes a little retcon is good for the soul of the show.

[Sarah 103]

16 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

That's not how addiction works in real life, but if it works that way on the show, I'm happy to be rid of that kind of drama. 
Sometimes a little retcon is good for the soul of the show.

Yes, but this is a show that operates on TV Land logic, not real world logic. I don't see it as a retcon because the show acknowledges that Susie had a gambling problem. The agreement she made with Joel about the money was referenced. The gambling problem has been solved via willpower and the demands of the story-arc/plot.   

[millennium]

10 hours ago, kwnyc said:

Abe is a selfish, vicious man. We've seen this in various ways throughout the first few seasons, but he NAMED NAMES to the FBI. By naming Asher as the guy who lit the fire, he did what the people who testified before the HUAC committee (just a few years before 1960), did. He also crushed the show he was sent to review. (Reality check: the Voice in 1960 was NOT an arbiter for NY theater. The Times, Herald-Tribute and a few other uptown dailies. The Voice was discovering off-off, and making celebrities of experimental theater artists and companies.)

What I found most repulsive was Abe's vow to get a piece of chalk to mark off the parts of his wife that Asher had touched -- like she was a side of beef -- so that he could be sure to never touch them again.  I'm sure someone in the writer's room thought this line was very funny and never considered that it positioned wives as possessions that can be marked up or disfigured at their owners' whim.  I understand that prevailing attitudes in those days support that kind of thinking but we're not in those days anymore and it's not funny.

I finally realized what the structure of this show reminds me of -- Transparent.   A show ostensibly about the titular character (the trans parent) but in the long run proved to be more and more focused on the foibles of her quirky Jewish family.   Same formula in Mrs. Maisel.  FWIW, I hated Transparent.

[SnarkShark]

I think they very much need to get moving on Midge's rise back to success.   The show is stalling in a parallel to the earlier seasons, except this time the family mostly ignores her career, and because it's the 60s, she gets away with occasionally wearing pants in Greenwich Village.  

They just need to get over the hump, storywise, of her having a big enough break to overcome whatever unspecified blackballing occurred.  They'll probably END the series on her getting on The Tonight Show, or a close facsimile, so they won't take her career THAT far, and they did their road stories, but they need some middle ground to actually move things forward.  I dunno.  I actually don't know where they're going, at least in the short and mid terms. 

[CinAZ]

I agree with the thought that Midge is in a stalling pattern. It’s not good for keeping interest in the show. I want to see her ups and downs, not just the downs. 

Abe’s storyline drags down the entire show. I hate that they spend any time on him at all. He isn’t interesting, he isn’t funny, he isn’t likable. I do like the whole matchmaking thing with Rose. She is interesting, funny and likable. Her getting a bowl of whipped cream for Susie was perfect. Rose seems to know how to handle people without them knowing they have been handled.

Susie could do well with the mob backing her. I am sure they will open doors for Susie’s clients. And I am also sure Susie will eventually pay the price.

I am interested in where Alphie the magician’s career will go. He seemed to be really good.

[Nicola]

While Boise (is that his name?) definitely did NOT need to be going into the dressing room and that needed to be stopped, the way it was accomplished was peak fan fiction. He's just going to stand there while she yelled at and belittled him? Then do exactly what she said? Yeah no. In 1960 a strip club manager is going to be rolling his eyes and walking away before she got 1/4 through her spiel. I hate how this show constantly props Midge up. 

Normally I LOVE 50's/early 60s fashion but these ladies' hats that look like upside-down popcorn buckets are beyond hideous. Far prefer the likes of the flat flowered one Rose's client was wearing at the synagogue. 

Due to the long hair, for a second I honestly thought Alfie was a girl Suzie was seeing and just didn't want to talk about to Midge.

Sophie and the elevator was hilarious. 

It's so odd that I really like this show about a woman trying to be a comic, but cannot stand the main character or her "comedy." I always fast-forward her stand-up routines to avoid the secondary cringe.

Edited February 28, 2022 by Nicola

[txhorns79]

23 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

That's not how addiction works in real life, but if it works that way on the show, I'm happy to be rid of that kind of drama. 
Sometimes a little retcon is good for the soul of the show.

This is the same show where in the last episode Susie, an adult woman, was given paper and crayons to draw with by Marion while she did her matchmaking business, and Susie seemingly was entertained.  This show does not exist even parallel to reality.   

[shapeshifter]

37 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

This is the same show where in the last episode Susie, an adult woman, was given paper and crayons to draw with by Marion while she did her matchmaking business, and Susie seemingly was entertained.  This show does not exist even parallel to reality.   

I rolled with that one by explaining to myself that Susie was in a shock-induced fugue state
--which may mean I have an unhealthy relationship with the show, but it doesn't have very many episodes.
It's not like it's a soap opera or a reality show I'm going to watch daily for years.
So I make excuses. 🤷‍♀️

[HouseofBeck]

On 2/26/2022 at 8:23 AM, jrzy said:

Did anyone catch the what was happening with Susie's latest disastrous decision to rent an apartment from those mobsters?  She was too enamored with the view to hear what they were saying about having a little piece of her business,  she has no idea what she just got herself into.  

I was yelling at Susie to PAY ATTENTION to what she was agreeing to, arrgh! But here she is, gambling again, only this time with her own existence if those friendly mobsters stop being so friendly. At least she's happy right now, or at least committed and focused to all the bits and parts with the new place + expanding her business, and that's interesting to see.

I also managed to completely forget, between Susie grabbing Alfie in the bar and hustling him to her place, and then seeing him laid out on the couch with that long hair, that it was indeed not only a guy but the same guy. 

Sophie turning up was equal parts terrible and awesome; Jane Lynch is so good. What a great role to play. 

So many colors in this episode. My eyes stopped this short of bleeding (but I rather liked the colorspolsion anyway).

ETA: Abe and his insanity over Rose's ages-ago dating + his CHALK, what the FUCK, just had me seeing red. Because too many people still think that way even in this round of the '20s.  

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by HouseofBeck

[millennium]

Miriam assuming the role of house mother at the strip club seemed a bit presumptuous.   Those women were fending for themselves long before the impeccably dressed, perfectly coiffed housewife from the Upper West Side showed up.   I know Miriam's intentions are supposed to be good, and this is a comedy, but to walk into a situation like that and assume a bossy posture, changing this and that, all but snapping her fingers at the help, strikes me as entitled.   Like, you're all too dim to know you're doing things wrong, thank goodness I'm here now to show you the way forward.

I like Miriam a lot, but this season is not doing it for me.

[shapeshifter]

24 minutes ago, millennium said:

Miriam assuming the role of house mother at the strip club seemed a bit presumptuous.   Those women were fending for themselves long before the impeccably dressed, perfectly coiffed housewife from the Upper West Side showed up.   I know Miriam's intentions are supposed to be good, and this is a comedy, but to walk into a situation like that and assume a bossy posture, changing this and that, all but snapping her fingers at the help, strikes me as entitled.   Like, you're all too dim to know you're doing things wrong, thank goodness I'm here now to show you the way forward.

I like Miriam a lot, but this season is not doing it for me.

You're not wrong, @millennium, but have you met my sister? 
Hah. Well, obviously not. But I guess that's why I'm okay with everything that's not okay on the show.
It's like: Yes. Thank you. I'm not crazy. This is what (some of) my family is like.

[tennisgurl]

This season seems to be lacking in forward momentum. Not even just that Midge's career has taken several steps back after getting fired, but that Midge hasn't really learned anything from the experience. She has spent the last few seasons growing as a character but now she doesn't really seem to be changing, other than growing an increasingly massive ego. I would like to see her try some different things, show some growth, start building her career more. I know that they cant have her be too successful too fast, but I am worried that the the show could spin its wheels too much. 

Still liked a lot about the episode though. Midge trying to find a lesbian bar for Suzie was awkward but fun, especially the appearance of John Waters, the strip show stuff has a lot of color, even if I find it rather annoying that all of the strippers need Midge, a rich former housewife, to save them after presumably doing fine without her, and I like Rose and Suzie as a comedic duo a lot. 

I usually like Abe more than a lot of people, but he was just insufferable this week. What a petty dick, I hope Jason Alexander writes a thunderously successful play about what an asshole Abe is. 

[kwnyc]

9 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

You're not wrong, @millennium, but have you met my sister? 

That's it! You just got me to remember that this milieu and these characters remind me of the writing of the late Wendy Wasserstein, especially the play "The Sisters Rosenzweig," which is set on the UWS and the main character (the late Madeleine Kahn) went by the name "Gorgeous." Suddenly, I see so many parallels. 

[pasdetrois]

On 2/26/2022 at 7:18 PM, kwnyc said:

The mob owned entertainers, and ran clubs, as we've already seen in Vegas.

Years ago I read that a band called Tommy James and the Shondells was owned and harassed by the mob. The lead singer talked about having to hide out.

After learning that Rose dated Asher, Abe steps into a hallway and becomes a raging demon. Way too dark. And the chalk comment was loathsome.

Edited February 28, 2022 by pasdetrois

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Midge trying to find a lesbian bar for Suzie was awkward but fun,

I didn't love that.  I thought it was very presumptuous on Midge's part, and really was more about Midge being uncomfortable with Susie being such a blank page to her than Midge caring about Susie's love life.  It reminded me a little bit of that Sex and the City episode where Miranda's co-worker decides she's a lesbian, and tries to fix her up with a woman.  Miranda then suddenly gets positive attention from her boss as well.  During the episode, Miranda attributes this positive attention to her boss and co-workers previously feeling threatened by not knowing her deal, and now being happy because she has been comfortably placed into a box.

39 minutes ago, pasdetrois said:

 

After learning that Rose dated Asher, Abe steps into a hallway and becomes a raging demon. Way too dark. And the chalk comment was loathsome.

The whole thing was gross and ridiculous.  

And were we supposed to believe that Sophie was confused about how an elevator worked?  How did she get up to Susie's floor of the building if she didn't understand how they worked?  You know Sophie is not taking the stairs. 

[Insert Username]

Ugh, Abe went from being my favorite to someone I loathe. He gave up a tenured teaching position WITH AN AMAZING RENT-FREE APARTMENT to go back to his communist roots (which may hurt his son's career in the CIA). Of course, dumbass Rose also gave up her trustfund because they wouldn't allow her to be on the family board. I don't know, since you live in NYC and seem to never get back to Oklahoma, it doesn't seem likely that you would be able to add much to the board anyway. If I had regular checks with zero work or effort on my side, especially when my husband just blew up his career and our home, I might find it in me to keep my mouth shut for a while. Ugh, these two are both spoiled, entitled children, but at least Rose has wit, style, and is concerned about other people. Abe is a self-involved jackass and his reactions to moving in with Midge and Rose having dated Asher were both disgusting.

[Nicola]

57 minutes ago, Insert Username said:

 Of course, dumbass Rose also gave up her trustfund because they wouldn't allow her to be on the family board.

This STILL pisses me off. I know the show meant it to be a Giant Feminist Statement but she just comes off looking like an idiot and reinforcing stereotypes about women being overly emotional and irrational. It would have been much more interesting to show her finding a way-- legal loophole perhaps-- to get on the board. They took the easy way out and went for drama/big emotions over a payoff that would have taken more time and trouble in the writer's room, but would have made much more sense and shown increased agency for the character. 

And now: Where is the money coming from?! How are they even paying Zelda? Abe makes nothing, Rose's matchmaking business is likely kaput and it sounds like Midge gave most of her savings to her former FIL to pay for the apartment? I'm sure I'm missing something... 

Edited February 28, 2022 by Nicola

[shapeshifter]

51 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

And were we supposed to believe that Sophie was confused about how an elevator worked?  How did she get up to Susie's floor of the building if she didn't understand how they worked?  You know Sophie is not taking the stairs. 

Now that you mention it, I guess Sophie was supposed to appear medicated, but Jane Lynch acting like she's on a sedative just appears like a normal person since she's always playing characters that are boiling under the surface.

 

 

[Nicola]

7 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

 more about Midge being uncomfortable with Susie being such a blank page to her than Midge caring about Susie's love life. 

This is interesting. I wonder if we are meant to view this through a 1960 or 2022 lens. In the SatC episode you mentioned, I feel like the context has changed. There's a lot of emphasis now on identity (in many different ways), and the verbal tag for a person's expression of it, and I think most folks are wary of causing offense because they don't want anyone to feel as if they are not being "seen" or represented. Even moreso, they are afraid to participate in what might be considered erasure. Some people might feel more comfortable that they fit into a "category," but ironically this might just reinforce putting people in a box!  Eventually, we could loop around to, "Hey, I'm an individual and I don't need or want a label. I have this quality and that tendency, but in the end I am just me." Who knows. Suzie might be asexual or bisexual or lesbian or none of the above. We just don't have information beyond what we've been shown, and maybe she herself isn't sure. All we know is that she doesn't mention her love life, if she has one, and she prefers to dress in a manner that is more traditionally male. I'm sure "lesbian" was the go-to stereotype in 1960. 
 

Perhaps Midge was viewing this as "maybe I should consider the existence of another human being other than myself," which on the face of it is a step forward for her character, but yeah this was definitely not the way do that. Suzie's response was perfect-- "You don't think I can't find a lesbian bar if I don't want to?" I think her anger was also partially about Midge not trusting her to navigate on her own, especially when she prides herself on a tough exterior. 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Nicola

[iMonrey]

Quote

the strip show stuff has a lot of color, even if I find it rather annoying that all of the strippers need Midge, a rich former housewife, to save them after presumably doing fine without her,

They were doing OK but clearly they could be doing better. I mean, the whole place was kind of a mess but they were apparently pretty complacent so long as everyone got paid. It may not have occurred to any of them they could do better and make more money, or they simply may not have had any interest in trying. That's what I think this story is going for. Midge takes sort of a seedy, run-down strip joint and turns it into a high-end burlesque show. 

One weird thing I noticed is that during one of her sets all the strippers were backstage watching and the waitresses all stopped to watch, and Boise got really mad. I'm not sure if he was just mad that the waitresses were all standing around or if it's deeper than that, like he realizes Midge is taking over.

[Pallas]

16 hours ago, iMonrey said:

One weird thing I noticed is that during one of her sets all the strippers were backstage watching and the waitresses all stopped to watch, and Boise got really mad.

Midge was cracking wise about how housewives step out on their neglectful husbands while the husbands are at work, or the strip club. My guess is that Boise has or had a wife.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Pallas

[Blakeston]

On 2/27/2022 at 5:38 AM, millennium said:

What I found most repulsive was Abe's vow to get a piece of chalk to mark off the parts of his wife that Asher had touched -- like she was a side of beef -- so that he could be sure to never touch them again.  I'm sure someone in the writer's room thought this line was very funny and never considered that it positioned wives as possessions that can be marked up or disfigured at their owners' whim.  I understand that prevailing attitudes in those days support that kind of thinking but we're not in those days anymore and it's not funny.

I finally realized what the structure of this show reminds me of -- Transparent.   A show ostensibly about the titular character (the trans parent) but in the long run proved to be more and more focused on the foibles of her quirky Jewish family.   Same formula in Mrs. Maisel.  FWIW, I hated Transparent.

As much as I dislike the writers' insistence on keeping Abe (and Moishe and Shirley) right in the center of the action, I think the writers understand that his chalk comment was completely despicable. I think they put a lot of thought into their representations of gender dynamics. And they have no qualms about depicting Abe as a horrible person.

Agreed on the similarities to Transparent. The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, Transparent, and the film The Meyerowitz Stories have all depicted Jewish families in the same way - insufferable selfish narcissists who create chaos everywhere, and scream at one another constantly without actually listening to one another. I've seen too much of it, at this point.

 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Blakeston

[LadyRose]

20 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

And were we supposed to believe that Sophie was confused about how an elevator worked?  

Of course Sophie knows how the elevator works. She was manipulating Susie into pushing the buttons for her. She plays dumb until people do what she wants them to. (If she can't actually order them to do thing, like she does her servants...or did.)

 

[luvthepros]

21 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

Years ago I read that a band called Tommy James and the Shondells was owned and harassed by the mob. The lead singer talked about having to hide out.

After learning that Rose dated Asher, Abe steps into a hallway and becomes a raging demon. Way too dark. And the chalk comment was loathsome.

That was some damn good acting there from Shaloub.

[chessiegal]

When Susie walked into that apartment and the one guy says it could use a spruce, I laughed. Palladinos must like the word spruce.

From Gilmore Girls "Lost and Found".

Quote

MARY: It’s a very quiet street and the owner keeps the building up beautifully. He hasn’t remodeled it at all. Plus, I bet he could be persuaded to give the floor a little spruce if you like.

LORELAI: Oh yeah, we’d like a spruce.

LUKE: A spruce is unnecessary.

LORELAI: Hey, you never turn down a spruce.

 

[Nicola]

Abe doesn't deserve a cape. 

[Sarah 103]

On 2/28/2022 at 12:38 PM, Insert Username said:

Ugh, Abe went from being my favorite to someone I loathe. He gave up a tenured teaching position WITH AN AMAZING RENT-FREE APARTMENT to go back to his communist roots (which may hurt his son's career in the CIA). 

The CIA probably knew about Abe's past when they hired Noah (Midge's brother/Abe's son). Noah was clearly aware of it. Bell Labs was not, because they hired Abe before the background investigation neeed for his security clearance was finished. 

[qtpye]

On 2/28/2022 at 12:38 PM, Insert Username said:

Ugh, Abe went from being my favorite to someone I loathe. He gave up a tenured teaching position WITH AN AMAZING RENT-FREE APARTMENT to go back to his communist roots (which may hurt his son's career in the CIA). Of course, dumbass Rose also gave up her trustfund because they wouldn't allow her to be on the family board. I don't know, since you live in NYC and seem to never get back to Oklahoma, it doesn't seem likely that you would be able to add much to the board anyway. If I had regular checks with zero work or effort on my side, especially when my husband just blew up his career and our home, I might find it in me to keep my mouth shut for a while. Ugh, these two are both spoiled, entitled children, but at least Rose has wit, style, and is concerned about other people. Abe is a self-involved jackass and his reactions to moving in with Midge and Rose having dated Asher were both disgusting.

Where are Midge's brother and his try-hard wife? Why are they not helping to financially support the dumbass parents?

I do like Rose but her giving up her trust fund money was a stupid plot point. It would have made more sense if Rose had found out that her brother mismanages funds and now the trust was empty.

 

[kwnyc]

1 hour ago, qtpye said:

Where are Midge's brother and his try-hard wife? Why are they not helping to financially support the dumbass parents?

Well, he is a government employee. Probably didn't make that much as a CIA analyst!

[SnarkShark]

On 2/27/2022 at 9:06 PM, shapeshifter said:

I rolled with that one by explaining to myself that Susie was in a shock-induced fugue state
--which may mean I have an unhealthy relationship with the show, but it doesn't have very many episodes.
It's not like it's a soap opera or a reality show I'm going to watch daily for years.
So I make excuses. 🤷‍♀️

I'm perfectly fine with stuff done overtly for comedy.  This isn't a straight drama. 

 

In other words, no excuse is needed.  As long as they don't do stuff like that too often. 

[Clanstarling]

On 2/26/2022 at 6:23 AM, jrzy said:

I am getting a little tired of Susie's stupid choices,  isn't she supposed to be savvy?   Even played for a joke,  going to proverbial bed with 2 bad apples isn't going to turn out well.  My assumption is that they will want to share in her 10 percent and she just put her client at risk.

I've never thought that Susie was supposed to be savvy - at the start she was managing a low end comedy bar until Midge came along and she got big ideas. She's been - to me - an innocent in many ways, but with a sarcastic and mean exterior. She had very little knowledge about how to manage a client - just a desire and a bulldog tenacity. So for me, she's not savvy - but learning.
 

On 2/28/2022 at 8:37 AM, pasdetrois said:

Years ago I read that a band called Tommy James and the Shondells was owned and harassed by the mob. The lead singer talked about having to hide out.

After learning that Rose dated Asher, Abe steps into a hallway and becomes a raging demon. Way too dark. And the chalk comment was loathsome.

I watched a documentary on Rose Marie (for those who don't know her, a comic from the 50's/60's). It was fascinating - she talked about the mob being in the business, and about either she or her husband getting on the wrong side of the mob in, I think Chicago. It was on Netflix. Don't know if it's still there.

[kwnyc]

On 3/6/2022 at 10:08 AM, Clanstarling said:

I've never thought that Susie was supposed to be savvy - at the start she was managing a low end comedy bar until Midge came along and she got big ideas. She's been - to me - an innocent in many ways, but with a sarcastic and mean exterior. She had very little knowledge about how to manage a client - just a desire and a bulldog tenacity. So for me, she's not savvy - but learning.

Yes. This. She's actually got some very good managerial instincts: she got Sophie on BROADWAY, and has a survivor's instincts. Of course, she's also played by one of the best actors around, so there's that.

[Clanstarling]

2 hours ago, kwnyc said:

Yes. This. She's actually got some very good managerial instincts: she got Sophie on BROADWAY, and has a survivor's instincts. Of course, she's also played by one of the best actors around, so there's that.

I'd never seen Alex Borstein before this - but I do think she's an amazing actress and deserving of an Emmy. Susie's my favorite character by far.

[kwnyc]

On 3/8/2022 at 2:16 PM, Clanstarling said:

I'd never seen Alex Borstein before this - but I do think she's an amazing actress and deserving of an Emmy.

I can go into detail on the appropriate thread, but watch the American version of "Getting On," with Alex Borstein, Laurie Metcalf and Niecy Nash.

[janie jones]

On 3/1/2022 at 5:56 AM, LadyRose said:

Of course Sophie knows how the elevator works. She was manipulating Susie into pushing the buttons for her. She plays dumb until people do what she wants them to. (If she can't actually order them to do thing, like she does her servants...or did.)

I don't know what Sophie's deal was supposed to be in t hat scene, but I don't think she was playing dumb. I noticed when she first walked up to the elevator she started looking around. I remember it because I thought it was an interesting acting/directing choice, rather than just having her looking at the elevator door. I realized when Susie pressed the button for her, she was supposed to have been looking around for a way to get into the elevator. If I recall, she wouldn't have known that Susie might have seen her doing that.

On 2/28/2022 at 2:05 PM, iMonrey said:

They were doing OK but clearly they could be doing better. I mean, the whole place was kind of a mess but they were apparently pretty complacent so long as everyone got paid. It may not have occurred to any of them they could do better and make more money, or they simply may not have had any interest in trying. That's what I think this story is going for. Midge takes sort of a seedy, run-down strip joint and turns it into a high-end burlesque show.

Yeah, I didn't take it as these women being dumb and helpless without Midge, but that they were complacent. I know I've been in work situations when someone new comes in and presents a different way of doing things, and it's like, duh, why haven't we been doing that all along. Not that the way Midge herself is going about it wouldn't be obnoxious to be around.

[Emily Thrace]

On 2/26/2022 at 8:23 AM, jrzy said:

Did anyone catch the what was happening with Susie's latest distastrous decision to rent an apartment from those mobsters?  She was too enamored with the view to hear what they were saying about having a little piece of her business,  she has no idea what she just got herself into.

I am getting a little tired of Susie's stupid choices,  isn't she supposed to be savvy?   Even played for a joke,  going to proverbial bed with 2 bad apples isn't going to turn out well.  My assumption is that they will want to share in her 10 percent and she just put her client at risk.

  

Eh the mob was a little more friendly in those days. Investing in someone they see as having potential was standard practice. They may ask for a cut later but it doesn't mean they are malicious. Investing in the community is how they gained support and stayed in business. The old Mafia liked to rule with love not just fear. 

[Iseut]

I really don't know where they're going with the Abe stuff. That was gross. I hope there is actual comeuppance for him. But I'm mostly concerned that his behavior is part of the usual Sherman-Palladino MO where a man becomes violently jealous and it's somehow supposed to be a sign of him being a romantic hero (Luke, Dean, and Jess in GG and Joel in S1 of this show). Blecch.