S14.E08: Striking a Balance

[Racj82]

7 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I won't argue with you but I personally don't think Noi would be stressing so much over it if he told her point blank that he had a $1,000,000 in the bank.

I'm saying right now, under the circumstances we have been presented with, that's all she wants to hear. I'm sure she would be happy with a million in the bank but that's not their situation. So, right now, that's all she wants to here. I got a job. She's worried about stability and from the outside looking in, what Steve is doing doesn't provide that. I'm sure he has bank saved up but it's probably the amount that will only go so far.

[Yeah No]

4 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

I'm saying right now, under the circumstances we have been presented with, that's all she wants to hear. I'm sure she would be happy with a million in the bank but that's not their situation. So, right now, that's all she wants to here. I got a job. She's worried about stability and from the outside looking in, what Steve is doing doesn't provide that. I'm sure he has bank saved up but it's probably the amount that will only go so far.

You said you didn't think anything he said or did would ease her mind about money.  I offered a scenario that I think would ease her mind.  Even half that might ease her mind.  We don't know how much money he has.  Unless he tells her how much he has as a cushion it's all just speculation and I can understand how she is worried about it.  The way she is acting is making me think she doesn't know how much he has or if she does it's not a lot and if so I would completely understand her feelings.

[StatisticalOutlier]

2 hours ago, Racj82 said:

From 2015 to 2019 the median household income was 71k. So that's at least 2 people.

I love demographics.  And for the sake of accuracy, I'll point out that a "household" can have just one person.  In fact, single-person households are the second most prevalent type in the U.S., after two-person households. 

As for the show, what I find funny is that Lindsey is calling out Katina for rolling her eyes when she was talking, when on the honeymoon, it was Alyssa calling out Lindsey for making faces as she was talking, and I don't remember Lindsey saying, "You know, Alyssa?  You have a point.  Making faces while you're talking is immature and rude."

And I'm on Mark's side.  So what if Lindsey doesn't like to sweep things under the rug?  She and Katina don't share a rug, or at least a rug that actually matters.  So what if Katina thinks Lindsey's an ass?  Why does Lindsey need to address that in public, and moreover, why does Mark need to address it on Lindsey's behalf?  (ETA: Especially because it's not going to be Mark saying, "You really hurt Lindsey's feelings," at least if Lindsey has any say in the matter.  Instead, it's going to be, "Rolling your eyes is rude and immature and you need to stop it."  I'm not sure anybody should be issuing that edict, but if it has to be someone, it should be Lindsey and not Mark--she's the one who has the problem with  it.)

Then again, I'm not one to pick fights, and I couldn't last 10 seconds with a partner who picks fights.  All of this just makes me issue my usual lament:  "What is wrong with people?"

Edited February 25, 2022 by StatisticalOutlier

[Ilovepie]

13 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

I love demographics.  And for the sake of accuracy, I'll point out that a "household" can have just one person.  In fact, single-person households are the second most prevalent type in the U.S., after two-person households. 

As for the show, what I find funny is that Lindsey is calling out Katina for rolling her eyes when she was talking, when on the honeymoon, it was Alyssa calling out Lindsey for making faces as she was talking, and I don't remember Lindsey saying, "You know, Alyssa?  You have a point.  Making faces while you're talking is immature and rude."

And I'm on Mark's side.  So what if Lindsey doesn't like to sweep things under the rug?  She and Katina don't share a rug, or at least a rug that actually matters.  So what if Katina thinks Lindsey's an ass?  Why does Lindsey need to address that in public, and moreover, why does Mark need to address it on Lindsey's behalf?  (ETA: Especially because it's not going to be Mark saying, "You really hurt Lindsey's feelings," at least if Lindsey has any say in the matter.  Instead, it's going to be, "Rolling your eyes is rude and immature and you need to stop it."  I'm not sure anybody should be issuing that edict, but if it has to be someone, it should be Lindsey and not Mark--she's the one who has the problem with  it.)

Then again, I'm not one to pick fights, and I couldn't last 10 seconds with a partner who picks fights.  All of this just makes me issue my usual lament:  "What is wrong with people?"

I am with you @StatisticalOutlier - what is wrong with these people indeed! I find fault with both Katina and Lindsey in that exchange. Both behaving like assholes IMO. How hard is it to be polite and keep it together for the sake of the group? They made everyone uncomfortable. Everyone. Including me as a viewer. I really wish the producers would stop these group meet ups. Some casts become good friends, but that is not happening with these people. It's hard to watch.

If I was Mark, I would not go near these other couples with Lindsey. I would have a stomach ache waiting for the altercation to happen, because you know it's coming. I would be moving in with Chris because I wouldn't want to walk on eggshells all the time waiting for my spouse to verbally abuse me. Because that's how I view it now. Verbal abuse. She is vicious and emasculated him and purposefully embarrassed him in public. I would be out. Mark doesn't deserve that from her at all. No-one does.

[Kip1]

Where are the experts? They have all but disappeared. They're certainly not experts in matching people up. They could at least try to help these people. In earlier seasons, the experts would show individuals or couples video clips of when they responded poorly and when they got things right. Mark and Lindsey could make a game out of Katina's eye rolling - every time she does it they could squeeze each other's hand, wink at each other, give a kiss on the cheek - then laugh about or discuss her behavior in private.

[Kip1]

3 minutes ago, Ilovepie said:

... I wouldn't want to walk on eggshells all the time waiting for my spouse to verbally abuse me. Because that's how I view it now. Verbal abuse. She is vicious and emasculated him and purposefully embarrassed him in public. I would be out. Mark doesn't deserve that from her at all. No-one does.

I agree. What Lindsey said was beyond the pale. I can't imagine coming back from that. Definitely verbal abuse. And little of what she said was related to their argument.  She just threw everything out there.

[Racj82]

13 minutes ago, Ilovepie said:

I am with you @StatisticalOutlier - what is wrong with these people indeed! I find fault with both Katina and Lindsey in that exchange. Both behaving like assholes IMO. How hard is it to be polite and keep it together for the sake of the group? They made everyone uncomfortable. Everyone. Including me as a viewer. I really wish the producers would stop these group meet ups. Some casts become good friends, but that is not happening with these people. It's hard to watch.

If I was Mark, I would not go near these other couples with Lindsey. I would have a stomach ache waiting for the altercation to happen, because you know it's coming. I would be moving in with Chris because I wouldn't want to walk on eggshells all the time waiting for my spouse to verbally abuse me. Because that's how I view it now. Verbal abuse. She is vicious and emasculated him and purposefully embarrassed him in public. I would be out. Mark doesn't deserve that from her at all. No-one does.

Yeah I've maintained from the beginning that I've understood where all three people were coming from. Just how they handled it was the problem. Katina can not like Lyndsey without being so snotty and Lyndsey can not take the bait because she knows it's just going to make it a whole argument. While I've been defending Mark, he should have leaded with stating he understood why Lyndsey wanted to speak up. Just that it wasn't going to go anywhere good if she did.

42 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

You said you didn't think anything he said or did would ease her mind about money.  I offered a scenario that I think would ease her mind.  Even half that might ease her mind.  We don't know how much money he has.  Unless he tells her how much he has as a cushion it's all just speculation and I can understand how she is worried about it.  The way she is acting is making me think she doesn't know how much he has or if she does it's not a lot and if so I would completely understand her feelings.

I feel like this is going around in circles. Right now as in at this moment in the show, all she wants to hear is that he is working and stable. Steve isn't going to magically gain a million dollars in the bank overnight so that's why I'm not thinking about that. If he had that he would of said that. Since he hasn't, that's not something he's going to say or do.

We need Noi on the afterparty. We need to hear specifically how much Steve has told her at this point regarding how he handles his freelance work, his future planning for being self employed, if he has disclosed his savings. It will help us all understand everything better.

[Racj82]

49 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

3 hours ago, Racj82 said:

From 2015 to 2019 the median household income was 71k. So that's at least 2 people.

I love demographics.  And for the sake of accuracy, I'll point out that a "household" can have just one person.  In fact, single-person households are the second most prevalent type in the U.S., after two-person households

That is fine and I understand that. It not really the main point I was trying to make.

I just really don't like how Lyndsey tries to act how she is down for whatever, super supportive and open to all types of guys while insulting her new husband and throwing her support back in his face as if that was what the argument was about. As it has been said, she is a real nasty piece of work.

[ByTor]

2 hours ago, Racj82 said:

He unemployed in that he's not employed by a certain company. He's not working for anyone. 

Self-employed is not the same as unemployed, and if that's how he meant it then he's not that great at explaining himself. Plus, if he was self-employed, why the mentions of "I can always get a job?" Sounds like a jobless person to me. And like someone who doesn't want to look for a job.

Edited February 25, 2022 by ByTor

[rlc]

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, but a noodle is never just a noodle.

[Intuition]

On 2/24/2022 at 10:19 AM, Racj82 said:

Mark is not wimp. He just doesn't like handling conversations or disagreements the way Lyndsey does. I'm tired of defending Mark at this point but I feel like a lot of this is gendered. When they say he might be afraid her, they are talking about the verbal abuse and insults he gets. Something he does not want to and shouldn't have to deal with. He likes her but the popping off and being cool the next day is scary in its own right. 

I agree with you that Mark's style of communicating is very different from Lindsey's but I still think he's a wimp.  It's not just that he doesn't handle conversations and disagreements the way she does, he just doesn't want to handle them at all.  He wants to avoid confrontation and people not liking him.  Lindsey does not avoid those things.  She is a straight shooter and can be too direct and cruel.  He is just the opposite.  He wants to smooth everything over and not have to come out taking a stand on something if it means other people might not like him.  He will throw Lindsey under the bus and not defend her in order to achieve that, which is in my opinion wimping out.  

15 hours ago, kikicat said:

Agreed. I don't think Mark is a wimp. He does seem kind of sensitive, I guess? Not a bad thing, IMO. He's a caring guy with tender feelings who doesn't like to be the center of attention. No match for loud, brash Lindsey. It's too bad because at times they did seem to be good for each other.

It's nice to be a sensitive person but he needs to put his big boy pants on and grow a spine when the situation calls for it, too.  He had no problem growing a spine and complaining to Lindsey about her comment which is ironic because she has busted her back for him already while he's just afraid of Katina so it's easy for him to take it out on Lindsey instead of the person responsible.  No matter what Lindsey's role was in what happened before this she definitely didn't deserve having snide faces made when she was talking to the group.  I think Lindsey deserves to be able to say something in response to Katina's snide faces and I think he should have supported her on that.

On 2/24/2022 at 10:40 AM, OFDgal said:

Lindsey said she was going back to South Boston. I had also thought she lived in the South End.  Mark's friend had on a Brockton t-shirt so maybe that's where he's from?  

I've read online that he's actually from Quincy.

 

[Racj82]

1 hour ago, ByTor said:

Self-employed is not the same as unemployed, and if that's how he meant it then he's not that great at explaining himself. Plus, if he was self-employed, why the mentions of "I can always get a job?" Sounds like a jobless person to me. And like someone who doesn't want to look for a job.

He means if freelance doesn't pan out the way he hopes or plans, he can just get hired at an actual company again. I don't think it's that complicated but I will say he's not the best at laying it all out there in terms of information.

[Gypsy Blue]

42 minutes ago, Intuition said:

No matter what Lindsey's role was in what happened before this she definitely didn't deserve having snide faces made when she was talking to the group.  I think Lindsey deserves to be able to say something in response to Katina's snide faces and I think he should have supported her on that.

This is exactly what she was doing when Alyssa was talking, so it's a bit hypocritical to call out someone else for doing the same thing.  I mean, I'd be doing the same thing every time Alyssa talked as well, but what's the purpose of calling someone else out for the same thing you just did?  Drama... that's what.

And wasn't it one of Lindsey's family that told Mark to do exactly as he did?  Tell her it made him feel uncomfortable?

Really, I think this all comes down to she's a mean drunk.  She seems to be able to keep her mouth shut and let things slide, or at least be reasonable, when she's sober.  But get a couple of drinks in her and she's just mean and nasty.

[StatisticalOutlier]

53 minutes ago, Intuition said:

It's not just that he doesn't handle conversations and disagreements the way she does, he just doesn't want to handle them at all.  He wants to avoid confrontation and people not liking him. 

Has he said he avoids confrontation because he doesn't want people not to like him?  I honestly don't remember, and ask because I avoid confrontation because I don't like confrontation, especially in public.  And I generally don't feel the need to have a confrontation at all because I don't care if people like me or not.  Not because I'm scared people won't like me.

Quote

I think Lindsey deserves to be able to say something in response to Katina's snide faces and I think he should have supported her on that.

I couldn't disagree more. 

In a perfect world, Katina wouldn't make faces (and neither would Lindsey at Alyssa during the honeymoon).  But if Katina is going to make faces, the recipient of the faces has a choice:  respond or ignore.  Lindsey votes respond, Mark votes ignore.  But it's not just "respond" because Lindsey absolutely knows it won't stop at a response, and will turn into a fight. 

I'd be really pissed if my partner knew how much I didn't like public fighting, and chose to have one anyway, especially over something I see as inconsequential--an acquaintance rolling her eyes at me.  Who. Cares.

13 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

I don't think it's that complicated but I will say he's not the best at laying it all out there in terms of information.

Or the show is purposely not laying it all out there.  Just show me his most recent bank or brokerage statements and income tax returns for the last three years.  In no conception of any universe would I (or should any other person) accept "Trust me."

Edited February 25, 2022 by StatisticalOutlier

[Racj82]

8 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Or the show is purposely not laying it all out there.  Just show me his most recent bank or brokerage statements and income tax returns for the last three years.  In no conception of any universe would I (or should any other person) accept "Trust me.

I agree but I don't think Steve owes US that information.  I hope he is breaking it down to her though. My only issue is it almost feels like he's telling her to not worry on good faith. That's why I want Noi on the afterparty removed from editing to just tell us what she knows and doesn't know about his finances and freelance work. I don't know if my particular feeling about Steve is editing or not.

[Crashcourse]

Right now, fortunately, Lindsey and Mark are around people they know and are being filmed.  Mark is really going be put in an uncomfortable position when he and Lindsey are out among strangers, and she opens her loud, drunken mouth over something/someone she doesn't like.  She'll be expecting him to defend her, but she could be putting herself and him in danger.    

I won't be surprised if they stay married on decision day, but I also won't be surprised if Mark bounces shortly afterwards. 

[Lindz]

It's so funny watching the Kat & Lindsey drama & how they get so close to sinking to trash reality TV level of yelling or fighting... All it takes is one to yell. Nobody likes Lindsey. She's too much & her cutting off Steve was too much. The group would probably prefer Lindsey not be there. Kat was also doing too much & she knows Lindsey wouldn't ignore it. Now why couldn't they handle it like adults? Why couldn't Kat say, "I'm uncomfortable with the sexual innuendos. Please stop." Why couldn't Lindsey ask Kat what her problem was one-on-one? Oh ya. Because Kat can't stand Lindsey & won't hide it. 😅😂 

[StatisticalOutlier]

20 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

I agree but I don't think Steve owes US that information.

Oh, I do.

20 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

I hope he is breaking it down to her though.

If he is, it's obviously not persuading her, which makes me want even more to know what he's got that he thinks is "enough." 

But also, how can it be that Mark has gone his entire life without eating a taco? 

[ByTor]

51 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

He means if freelance doesn't pan out the way he hopes or plans, he can just get hired at an actual company again. I don't think it's that complicated but I will say he's not the best at laying it all out there in terms of information.

Sorry to belabor the point, but I am a believer in "if it walks like a duck & quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, we have a duck." None of the conversations hinted at him freelancing or being self-employed, rather he specifically said that he was not working, was unemployed, etc. and his family referred to him as a "vagabond." I DO, however, believe that while he was unemployed (had no income) during filming, he did start consulting work subsequently. I wonder if that is a hint that he and Noi stayed together! I'm not spoiled, so just a guess.

40 minutes ago, Gypsy Blue said:

And wasn't it one of Lindsey's family that told Mark to do exactly as he did?  Tell her it made him feel uncomfortable?

That is what really made me feel sorry for him. I guess her friends don't know her as well as they think they do!!

4 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

But also, how can it be that Mark has gone his entire life without eating a taco? 

Right??

Edited February 25, 2022 by ByTor

[Elizzikra]

4 minutes ago, ByTor said:

 None of the conversations hinted at him freelancing or being self-employed, rather he specifically said that he was not working, was unemployed, etc. I DO, however, believe that while he was unemployed (had no income) during filming, he did start consulting work subsequently.

He said in an earlier episode that he did some consulting gigs. I think that was before they were matched so I don’t know if has said that to Noi or not… but he has said it to the camera.

[Lindz]

It was dumb of Mark to hold onto his issue with Lindsey addressing Kat rolling her eyes. He knew she wouldn't ignore him acting differently! Minutes before, she didn't ignore Kat acting out! HELLO! He should've faked it til they got home or explained how he feels about what she did & needs space. Like. Come on. You can't act like a downer around somebody & think they'll just ignore it. Just. Bizarre. Lindsey needs to listen to Mark & agree to ignore Kat's expressions while amongst the group. It's so simple! 😖😂

[Racj82]

11 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Oh, I do.

If he is, it's obviously not persuading her, which makes me want even more to know what he's got that he thinks is "enough." 

But also, how can it be that Mark has gone his entire life without eating a taco? 

I don't think any of these people owe us their full financial layout. Noi does deserve it though.

I never eaten a taco before. In general I've never eaten Mexican food in my life.

It's not really crazy. It almost never is. People eat what they want to eat. Like what they like. I've never had an interest in eating tacos so I've never eaten it. That's the whole explanation. Of course, I could like it if I tried it. But, I don't want to try it so I haven't. 

[Racj82]

46 minutes ago, Crashcourse said:

Right now, fortunately, Lindsey and Mark are around people they know and are being filmed.  Mark is really going be put in an uncomfortable position when he and Lindsey are out among strangers, and she opens her loud, drunken mouth over something/someone she doesn't like.  She'll be expecting him to defend her, but she could be putting herself and him in danger.    

I won't be surprised if they stay married on decision day, but I also won't be surprised if Mark bounces shortly afterwards. 

Lyndsey totally reads as the type, to me, that would pop shit to a guy in a bar and leave her man to deal with the mess. 

1 hour ago, Intuition said:

I agree with you that Mark's style of communicating is very different from Lindsey's but I still think he's a wimp.  It's not just that he doesn't handle conversations and disagreements the way she does, he just doesn't want to handle them at all.  He wants to avoid confrontation and people not liking him.  Lindsey does not avoid those things.  She is a straight shooter and can be too direct and cruel.  He is just the opposite.  He wants to smooth everything over and not have to come out taking a stand on something if it means other people might not like him.  He will throw Lindsey under the bus and not defend her in order to achieve that, which is in my opinion wimping out.  

It's nice to be a sensitive person but he needs to put his big boy pants on and grow a spine when the situation calls for it, too.  He had no problem growing a spine and complaining to Lindsey about her comment which is ironic because she has busted her back for him already while he's just afraid of Katina so it's easy for him to take it out on Lindsey instead of the person responsible.  No matter what Lindsey's role was in what happened before this she definitely didn't deserve having snide faces made when she was talking to the group.  I think Lindsey deserves to be able to say something in response to Katina's snide faces and I think he should have supported her on that.

I've read online that he's actually from Quincy.

 

I hear ya but not liking confrontation or not liking it the way Lyndsey does just will never equal wimp to me.

And he has been shown to her have her back before. 

I think the plane ride from hell plays in head like Vietnam flashbacks, while also playing as a flash forward to his future and he's just trying tooth and nail to never have to experience that again. I don't know why anyone would. There is a way he could have dealt with the situation. Let Lyndsey confront Katina but jump in when needed. Also, not lead with judgment on the side. He didn't handle it the best. But a sensitive or thoughtful man being labeled as a wimp is just something I don't personally like.

[Crashcourse]

2 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

Lyndsey totally reads as the type, to me, that would pop shit to a guy in a bar and leave her man to deal with the mess. 

And possibly get him shot. 

[Lindz]

Here's an idea: How about these people be adults & tell their spouses what they need? SO SIMPLE!!! 😂😂 This would stop the repetitive conversations that go nowhere. Like Steve's job situation. COME ON! 

[Lindz]

Is this really the first group activity since the honeymoon? It's shocking to see the Mark/Lindsey argument so soon. They couldn't even make it the first outing without incident. YIKES! 😬😅 

[gingerandcloves]

So what do we think - did Mark have bedbugs in his apartment or was it actually roaches (per Lindsey's bathroom rant)?

[StatisticalOutlier]

2 hours ago, ByTor said:

None of the conversations hinted at him freelancing or being self-employed, rather he specifically said that he was not working, was unemployed, etc. and his family referred to him as a "vagabond."

I'm with you, except on the After Show, in starting the discussion with Steve, Keisha said to him, "Self-employed and unemployed are two very different things."  That's when he did the air quotes thing with "currently employed."  Why did she say "self-employed"? 

But then she asked about whether he has savings, which would presumably be important to a person who is unemployed; none of the employed people are asked about whether they have savings.

And Steve isn't helping by not saying (or being shown saying, producers) outright, "I have a job and bring home money every month.  It's just that I do it on a freelance basis instead of as somebody's employee."

I'm kind of liking your theory about him taking consulting gigs after filming, but before the After Party was filmed.  Maybe that's why Keisha was thinking in terms of self-employed, when it doesn't appear from the episodes that he's performing work.

I get it--I did what Steve did for years.  I'd work for a while, then I'd quit and fool around for a while, and then get a job again.  BUT I was never responsible for anyone but myself, and never even intertwined financially with anyone else.  That's not the situation Steve is in. 

[kristen111]

On 2/24/2022 at 1:37 PM, Mindthinkr said:

I thought someone posted what Noi put on SM about Noodlegate. I can’t seem to find it. 
Can anyone help? 

What did she say?  I don’t do SM.  Then again, the show itself tells the world, not only SM.

 

Edited February 26, 2022 by kristen111

[watchingtvaddict]

13 minutes ago, kristen111 said:

What did she say?  I don’t do SM.  Then again, the show itself tells the world, not only SM.

 

 

On 2/25/2022 at 4:58 AM, Vanderboom said:

I wish these people could communicate like actual adults, but then again sensible people do not make good television.

 

Here it is 

 

[qtpye]

18 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

For the record, in her bathroom rant, Lindsey said he makes "60 thousand" selling gym memberships.  I remember him being described as managing a gym earlier in the season (I noticed this because from the chest up he looks like a gym rat, but oof, that belly).

And a tidbit from the after show:  Chris said he did exactly the same thing Steve did--he got laid off by an education company (which makes me remember that his friends call him "Professor") and used his severance to drive around New England and Canada for two months, sleeping in the back of his Explorer.

There have been comments here speculating that Steve is doing freelance work, but on the aftershow, he made it clear he's not currently working.  He even asked why the title of "currently employed" (he used air quotes) is so important--he says he has "enough to take care of us."  I'd be real interested in knowing what he considers "enough."  Although I'm not sure Noi would ever be comfortable without actual cash money flowing in every month, preferably from an actual job.

I have a friend who is terrified of dogs, and whenever she encounters one, you can see it on her face.  And I swear I see the same look on Noi's face when they talk about Steve not having a job.  What's funny is that one of his friends said his company is always hiring sales engineers, no doubt as a way to illustrate Steve's employability, but Noi's take was the opposite--she couldn't understand why he doesn't have one of those jobs right now.

Also, Chris articulated what I'd said about Alyssa--that yes, she was trying, but she wasn't trying at the right thing, i.e., the marriage.  I noticed something similar with Lindsey.  At the bowling alley, Mark was telling her that it was awkward when she started provoking Katina because she knew how Katina would react, and she asked who he was there for, and he said he was there for her but that when she does stuff like this when they're together, it makes him uncomfortable.  She continued to defend her actions, saying she can't just brush stuff under the rug, and Mark said that they are a team, and if she can't get that, it's not gonna work.

She immediately jumped into "I'm being a team for you in all your chaos."  How she took a day off work and put on a hazmat suit to clean out his apartment.  All of which is true, but it has zero to do with what was at issue right then--Mark saying that her picking a fight with Katina makes him uncomfortable.

If you asked Alyssa if she was trying, she would honestly say, "Yes."  And if you asked Lindsey if she was being a team player with Mark, she would honestly say, "Yes."  And they'd both be wrong because they're ignoring the specifics.

 

17 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Thank you, that's exactly how I see it.  It doesn't even matter if Lindsey should have said anything to Katina or not, it's that Mark should have supported her, not made the others think he's against her.  And knowing that Katina was instigating here he should have said something to HER first, and then take up Lindsey's reaction with her later on after they got home.  Like he should have asked Katina to please not make things worse.  That's all it would have taken.  In situations like that a united front would go a long way to showing someone like Katina that someone with a backbone is defending Lindsey and maybe she'd better think twice before doing it again.  Mark is intimidated by Ola and Katina but that's his problem.  I know they wouldn't intimidate my husband.  In 41 years he has never left me hanging in public like that when someone has dissed me even if I reacted to it.  I could see Mark doing that if she were clearly being ridiculous and offensive, but not this time.

Lindsey has a point that she has stood by Mark even through all of his apartment shit and he can't even support her when someone disrespects her like that?  I also think the editing was doing its best to make Lindsey's comments about relationships look stupid, when actually they were NOT.  Perhaps the people she was talking to didn't really care to hear it, and she may have not read the room accurately before saying it, but her comments certainly weren't ridiculous or stupid because Katina is NO expert on relationships despite what she seems to think.  But I thought the show really wanted Lindsay to look ridiculous and stupid.  Plus, it is clear that Lindsey has her issues but we STILL never really saw what happened between her, Ola and Katina on the plane weeks ago that started all of this and I am still side eyeing why the show did that.  I am thinking even more now that the show is trying to make Lindsey look worse by doing stuff like that.  And they know that because of the way she seems the audience will buy it.

I think one of the big problems is that we did not see what happened on the plane. For instance, when Michael said Jasmina cut him off, it was very helpful to be able to flashback and see that was not the case. It feels like Mark is still embarrassed about whatever the Hell Lindsey did to Olaj on the plane and Katina is still angry about it. Olaj seems over it, particularly after Lindsey dm'd him an apology.

The flashbacks were also great for highlighting how Alyssa lies like a rug.

17 hours ago, Tunia said:

I suspect that a good part of Noi's concern ever Steve's freelance style may be the lack of concrete stability, the lack of a base to his employment that would provide such things as maternity benefits, medical plans, etc. that she doesn't want to be responsible for providing long term.  She wants those three kids - "no compromise".  Maybe she has unexpressed thoughts of someday being a SAHM, and that would require a more grounded employment for Steve.

A great advantage of candlepin bowling is that it doesn't screw up those $50 manicures!  You can't put gel or acrylic nails into the holes of a traditional bowling bowl without doing serious damage to those nails.  They'll snap with the first release.  All the MAFS women still have their wedding nails intact.

 

17 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I might be able to look at it that way if I knew he had tons of money, but if that's the case he still hasn't reassured her enough.  He doesn't have to tell her he has a lot of money, just make comments like, "Don't worry I will be able to keep this lifestyle and we will still be able to afford everything we want anyway".  That's all it would take for now.  He should know how it would look to someone that just met him and adjust what he says to help them out.  Instead he digs his heels in about his "lifestyle" like that's what she's against.  It's not - her problem is worrying about financial security.  I don't think she would care if he took time off if she knew he had that much money saved up.  He wasn't addressing the real issue.  Also, if he really had that much money I don't know if he would have reacted that way.

Did you guys notice that we have had a couple of unemployed men on this show but never any unemployed women?

My apologies if I am not remembering that correctly.

[LuvMyShows]

For anyone who cares, I rewatched the entire saga of the Katina-rolls-her-eyes-and-Mark-calls-out-Lyndsey.  They are two completely separate scenes, and are not at all as many people here are seeming to remember.  The whole transcript is in the Spoiler tag since it is sorta long.

Spoiler

 

Originally Lyndsey says her spiel about conflict being necessary for intimacy, then we see Katina have kind of an exaggerated confused look and open her mouth silently in disbelief.   Lyndsey: "Why do you keep rolling your eyes?"    Katina: "I'm not tryna argue with you on camera again.  You know not to talk to me girl. Stay over there."  Lyndsey looks flabbergasted.  Olu then leans over to Katina and whispers "We don't want to get you amped up" and Mark whispers to Lyndsey "We don't want to have any arguments tonight."  And then Chris says to everyone "It's OK, we can move on."  That is the end of that scene and some more scenes occur. 

Then we hear but don't see Lyndsey: "Mark, what's up dude?  You just shifted your whole demeanor." 

Mark: "I didn't like the way you, like, spoke like that with her." 

But we still haven't seen them cause they are just showing generic bowling stuff. 

Lyndsey: "With who?"

Mark: "Katina" and now they are showing Katina.  Then they show more generic bowling.

Mark: "You were like 'Why are you rolling your eyes?'"

Lyndsey:  "Oh, so now you're going to be mad at me about that?" ...and we still haven't seen them on camera

Finally we see them when Mark replies, "You shouldn't have said that.  It's awkward.  I feel awkward when you do that."

They appear to be sitting apart from everyone else. 

Lyndsey: "OK.  You don't think that this woman making eyes and rolling her eyes...."

Mark interrupts to say "I think that given your history, you shouldn't say anything.  It's going to cause an argument."

They show some production people and we can see that Lyndsey and Mark are all the way to one side of the bowling alley, right near the wall.  Lyndsey: "OK Mark, who are you here for?" and the camera pans to a view of the whole bowling alley, and they are definitely not near the other couples at all.

Mark: "You. That's why I said 'Don't do it'"

Lyndsey: "OK, what did I do that upset you? You literally watched this woman rolls her eyes, acts like a child, and guffaws at me."

Mark: "And then you had to jump in and say 'What are you rolling your eyes for?"

Lyndsey: "I said 'Yeah.  Why are you rolling your eyes?"

Mark: "Right, but you know what that's literally going to do?  That tone's gonna piss her off.  It's gonna piss her off."

Lyndsey: "I don't care. She was already pissed off based on her eye rolling."

Mark: "If I tell you when we're together it makes me uncomfortable when you do that, don't do that."

Lyndsey: "OK I don't like to brush things under the rug.  I like to direct..." 

Mark: "OK well this is a team. And if you can't get that, this isn't going to work."

Lyndsey: "No, but I'm being here for you as a team, during all your fucking chaos. I'm not a team for you when I put my fucking hazmat suit on and give up a day of work [they replay the hazmat suit scene] to help you move out of  your chaotic life..."

Mark: "We're going in the past. We're going in the past right now."

Lyndsey: "Nonono we're talking about right now.  You're asking about a team..."

Then Mark walks away saying "I'm good.  I'm good." 

And Lyndsey says "That's what I thought.  Walk away.  Call your mom.  See if she can let you in tonight." 

And Mark turns back and says "Have another drink."

 

The upshot is...at the time of the supposed eye-rolling (which is actually not what Katina did), Mark did not have any discussion about it with Lyndsey....he just quietly whispered to her "We don't want to have any arguments tonight" and Olu quietly whispered to Katina   "We don't want to get you amped up".  Katina's reaction to Lyndsey had been comparable to what Lyndsey had done in reaction to Alyssa's speaking during the honeymoon.  And while I didn't like Katina's response when Lyndsey asked why she rolled her eyes, Lyndsey absolutely should not have mentioned anything about rolling eyes in the first place, since she herself had done something very comparable to someone else.  And actually it was either at that Alyssa thing or another time, that Lyndsey went so far as to say something as a denigrating aside to Mark about whoever was talking, so Lyndsey really really needs to simmer down with taking offense at people's reactions to her.  If Mark had jumped in to say anything to Katina at this point, it would have been needless, inappropriate, and inflammatory shit-stirring.

It was only later, when Mark and Lyndsey were at the other end of the bowling alley away from all the other couples, that Lyndsey asked Mark what was wrong because she noticed his demeanor had changed, and the whole argument ensued.  Lyndsey initiated that conversation, not Mark, who was simply answering her question.

[Gypsy Blue]

3 hours ago, qtpye said:

Did you guys notice that we have had a couple of unemployed men on this show but never any unemployed women?

I don't think such a big deal is made over a woman not working.  I've wondered about whether some of the women this season have jobs.  Like Katina, her husband is expecting her to prepare all meals for him... is she supposed to work and do that as well?  I tend to not pay attention to what profession any of them have, so it might already be known.  It just seems like they all have an awful lot of time on their hands.

There was an issue on the Jamie and Beth season where Beth was claiming to have some important sounding job and really she just kind of occasionally worked for her dad.  It was a problem for Jamie, I don't think because he was worried about her income, but more that she wasn't truthful... If I'm remembering this all correctly.

I assume most of them are on the show for fame and kickstarting some kind of entertainment career, so I don't know why it gets brought up so much, other than drama.

Edited February 26, 2022 by Gypsy Blue
typos

[LuvMyShows]

6 hours ago, ByTor said:

That is what really made me feel sorry for him. I guess her friends don't know her as well as they think they do!!

At the time the friends suggested it, I remember thinking that it would never work.  I think the friends have no idea about this side of her, because they probably never confront her, and if they do, maybe there are enough people around that she feels some sense of pressure to respond in the right way...but if it's just her partner, especially one that she feels isn't manly enough, then she will try to steamroll her way over him rather than work through the issue.

2 hours ago, qtpye said:

Did you guys notice that we have had a couple of unemployed men on this show but never any unemployed women?

Elizabeth was basically unemployed, sorta kinda working for her dad in some ill-defined capacity.

ETA: Just saw GypsyBlue already addressed this!

Edited February 26, 2022 by LuvMyShows

[qtpye]

22 minutes ago, Gypsy Blue said:

I don't think such a big deal is made over a woman not working.  I've wondered about whether some of the women this season have jobs.  Like Katina, her husband is expecting her to all meals for him... is she supposed to work and do that as well?  I tend to not pay attention to what profession any of them have, so it might already be known.  It just seems like they all have an awful lot of time on their hands.

There was an issue on the Jamie and Beth season where Beth was claiming to have some important sounding job and really she just kind of occasionally worked for her dad.  It was a problem for Jamie, I don't think because he was worried about her income, but more that she wasn't truthful... If I'm remembering this all correctly.

I assume most of them are on the show for fame and kickstarting some kind of entertainment career, so I don't know why it gets brought up so much, other than drama.

Katina works in some capacity with helping state employees with retirements.

Olaj also works for the state and she mentioned that she might have retired him in the future or something to that effect.

This is a terrible show to come on for fame though I agree that some of the people seem more motivated by that than having a good marriage.

[gingerandcloves]

Jasmina works in childhood education, I think as a preschool teacher.

Noi works as a recruiter/headhunter I think.

Lindsey is in nursing in some capacity, used to be hospice care.

Alyssa rescues dogs and rides horses, dontcha know. Oh, and I think she is some type of social media manager.

Other than Beth, I don't remember anyone else not having a job.

Actually, I should say I don't remember any of the women not having a job. Who can forget Michael from D.C.? LOL.

Edited February 26, 2022 by gingerandcloves

[bref]

Wasn't ChristinA living in her car  before her season?

[Elizzikra]

Quote

Noodlegate

I don't know why I'm thinking about it or why it matters but did Steven dump the noodles down the sink or did he drain them so they could still be eaten?

Quote

Lindsey is in nursing in some capacity, used to be hospice care.

Do we know that she is a nurse? I know she used to work in hospice and she is identified now as a "healthcare project manager," which could mean all sorts of things but doesn't sound like a direct care-giving, bedside role. 

ACE is a social media manager which is why it was shocking to me that she was so inept about managing how she came off looking throughout her time on the show. Maybe she is better with still content than video?

Edited February 26, 2022 by Elizzikra

[qtpye]

3 minutes ago, bref said:

Wasn't ChristinA living in her car  before her season?

She might have been but she had a job as a stewardess.

[Elizzikra]

1 minute ago, qtpye said:

She might have been but she had a job as a stewardess.

The house she showed during Pepper's visit was her mom's but there were rumors that she was actually homeless. She was also new to the flight attendant job, I think and didn't really seem to have a stable career.

[StatisticalOutlier]

2 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

Do we know that she is a nurse? I know she used to work in hospice and she is identified now as a "healthcare project manager," which could mean all sorts of things but doesn't sound like a direct care-giving, bedside role.

She said she was stepping in as nurse and safety officer in the toilet-seat-up conversation.  And when Katina told her to let Steve speak when she jumped up, I thought, "You don't want to get between a nurse and her germ discussion.  They're passionate."

[Lindz]

9 hours ago, ByTor said:

10 hours ago, Gypsy Blue said:

And wasn't it one of Lindsey's family that told Mark to do exactly as he did?  Tell her it made him feel uncomfortable?

That is what really made me feel sorry for him. I guess her friends don't know her as well as they think they do!!

Mark should've asked if that's what he'd done. He probably hadn't. Talk is cheap. Plus. He probably hadn't been in a relationship with her. Mark should've asked his WIFE & let her share her theory of what he should say or do. 😂😂

[Yeah No]

8 hours ago, gingerandcloves said:

So what do we think - did Mark have bedbugs in his apartment or was it actually roaches (per Lindsey's bathroom rant)?

I was wondering about that myself.  Maybe he had both?  With this show you never know.  We've had an eagle tattoo turn into a lion tattoo already so why not roaches turning into bedbugs, LOL?

[Racj82]

3 hours ago, Gypsy Blue said:

I don't think such a big deal is made over a woman not working.  I've wondered about whether some of the women this season have jobs.  Like Katina, her husband is expecting her to prepare all meals for him... is she supposed to work and do that as well?  I tend to not pay attention to what profession any of them have, so it might already be known.  It just seems like they all have an awful lot of time on their hands.

There was an issue on the Jamie and Beth season where Beth was claiming to have some important sounding job and really she just kind of occasionally worked for her dad.  It was a problem for Jamie, I don't think because he was worried about her income, but more that she wasn't truthful... If I'm remembering this all correctly.

I assume most of them are on the show for fame and kickstarting some kind of entertainment career, so I don't know why it gets brought up so much, other than drama.

I've never gotten any indication that anyone on this show except for Jamie O and maybe Myrla did this for fame. Fame in the grander sense. No one has a made a career out of this except for Jamie. I guess Karen and Miles have their youtube thing but that's barely high profile. I don't think anyone by and large does it for that. This isn't the show for that. At this point, love is blind would be better for that goal. 

[watchingtvaddict]

It's been 2 weeks or so, I think Noi needs to slow her roll. What does she expect him to do? Drop filming and getting to know her to get back into the job market and start going to interviews? If he does get a job it will probably not be one that allows for the flexibility of going through the MAFs process.  

It sounds to me like she wants Steve to get right back to work so she can quit and become a SAHM to 3 kids. She knows having kids is super expensive but she is dead set on 3. I'm thinking she wants her husband to be 100% responsible for the finances.

I also believe in her introduction she mentioned two exes. She traveled around Europe with one and the ex from the UK invited her to Mexico. I'm thinking she is accustomed to a certain lifestyle and Steve might not want to spend as much as her when it comes to certain things. 

I think this couple is mismatched when it comes to finances. Neither seems to want to compromise when it comes to their idea of how to manage money and they probably don't agree on what's reasonable when it comes to budgeting or saving. 

 

[Yeah No]

7 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

I'm with you, except on the After Show, in starting the discussion with Steve, Keisha said to him, "Self-employed and unemployed are two very different things."  That's when he did the air quotes thing with "currently employed."  Why did she say "self-employed"? 

But then she asked about whether he has savings, which would presumably be important to a person who is unemployed; none of the employed people are asked about whether they have savings.

And Steve isn't helping by not saying (or being shown saying, producers) outright, "I have a job and bring home money every month.  It's just that I do it on a freelance basis instead of as somebody's employee."

I'm kind of liking your theory about him taking consulting gigs after filming, but before the After Party was filmed.  Maybe that's why Keisha was thinking in terms of self-employed, when it doesn't appear from the episodes that he's performing work.

I get it--I did what Steve did for years.  I'd work for a while, then I'd quit and fool around for a while, and then get a job again.  BUT I was never responsible for anyone but myself, and never even intertwined financially with anyone else.  That's not the situation Steve is in. 

You can be self-employed and yet not working (or technically "unemployed") at the same time.  My husband was self-employed for 10 years.  He only made money when he got work which was not all the time.  He had busy seasons and down seasons.  So technically he didn't have a "job" in the sense of being an employee that's part of a company with a regular salary.  But what really mattered is how much he made in a year, not how much he made every week or even month, so those down seasons didn't tell the whole story. Eventually he was able to turn it into a business which changed it in terms of tax status.  In Steve's case, he is really technically "unemployed" when he doesn't have a "gig".  He doesn't seem to have a small business either so he can't even say he's employed by his own company.  He's in that nether world between being an employee and having his own business.  He probably gets a 1099 tax form from every employer he works for on a contractual basis (as opposed to a W-2).  But he needs to explain to Noi that it's the big picture that counts with regard to his income and to focus on the "down times" doesn't take into account how much he makes in a year, which is likely a respectable number.  Either Steve is unable or unwilling to explain all of this to her and how it works out in terms of annual earnings or the show is deliberately leaving that part out, which I wouldn't put it past them to do.

[Yeah No]

7 hours ago, qtpye said:

I think one of the big problems is that we did not see what happened on the plane. For instance, when Michael said Jasmina cut him off, it was very helpful to be able to flashback and see that was not the case. It feels like Mark is still embarrassed about whatever the Hell Lindsey did to Olaj on the plane and Katina is still angry about it. Olaj seems over it, particularly after Lindsey dm'd him an apology.

I know I keep saying that too.  At first I thought maybe they didn't have footage of it because it happened on the plane, but now I'm not so sure about that.  It would be like this show to deliberately not show us that footage so it could put a different spin on it than we might have gotten from seeing it for ourselves.  There was so much footage of Alyssa to show that she was full of shit that we didn't even need to see it all compiled, but the show made sure we saw it again in a montage because it fit with the narrative they wanted to push about her, which is actually not far from the truth in this case.  But if they did purposely withhold the footage of the plane incident between Lindsey and the others I would be suspicious as to their motives for doing that.  It sounds to me like there might have been cause for apology on both sides, but the show doesn't want us to think that and we'll probably never really know that for sure.

[watchingtvaddict]

7 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I know I keep saying that too.  At first I thought maybe they didn't have footage of it because it happened on the plane, but now I'm not so sure about that.  It would be like this show to deliberately not show us that footage so it could put a different spin on it than we might have gotten from seeing it for ourselves.  There was so much footage of Alyssa to show that she was full of shit that we didn't even need to see it all compiled, but the show made sure we saw it again in a montage because it fit with the narrative they wanted to push about her, which is actually not far from the truth in this case.  But if they did purposely withhold the footage of the plane incident between Lindsey and the others I would be suspicious as to their motives for doing that.  It sounds to me like there might have been cause for apology on both sides, but the show doesn't want us to think that and we'll probably never really know that for sure.

They speak about what happened on the Aftershow. You can check out the thread or watch the show to find out more. 

[Yeah No]

1 minute ago, watchingtvaddict said:

They speak about what happened on the Aftershow. You can check out the thread or watch the show to find out more. 

I have watched the Aftershow and it's still 2nd hand information.  I don't buy anyone's opinion on what went down especially if they were part of it because they're obviously biased and we're only going to get their side of it, which may not be in line with my assessment of what actually went down if I saw it unedited going down with my own two eyes.  Often the participants on this show have widely different accounts and opinions on how a situation went down that we have seen on camera and in the end neither of them really tell the whole truth.  I'd prefer to make up my own mind about this situation after seeing it for myself.

[Starlight925]

I was appalled at Lindsay's bathroom, on-mic rant about Mark and his income.  I know that at the time, Mark hadn't yet heard that, but hearing it later on film would cause me to slam the door on that relationship.  

In one of Alyssa's "off camera" rants (to the awesome producer who obviously used their phone), she slammed Chris's career as "just a real estate agent".

These have to be the two worst women the show has ever had.

Here are two hard-working men who appear to have hearts of gold, yet they are being slammed for their "minimal" careers.  I. Just. Want. To. Scream.

You know how many men sit at home playing video games all day?  You know how many women will be clawing their way to get at Mark and Chris, one these couples are finally split up?

Chinless/double chin Alyssa and always-inserts-herself Lindsay should move in together. I predict they will be single for a looooong time.