S01.E04: A Long Ladder

[izabella]

49 minutes ago, mansonlamps said:

And don't judge me,  but while I am all for equality in nudity,  I have no desire to see the peen in my period dramas, I'm good with just chest/abs or a butt shot or two.  It doesn't really set my heart aflutter frankly. 

This is why the male directors, producers, writers, and movie makers don't show it.  They know a soft penis isn't...compelling...and often can look....silly...if he's hopping and flopping around after jumping out of bed.  That is not how men want to be seen by viewers.

[Roseanna]

3 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Hmm, that reminds a bit of Fanny Price (Mansfield Park), another character I'm not particularly fond of. But unlike Marian Fanny was able to read a room, for an observer character Marian has an unfortunate knack to put her foot in it - s. also last episode where of all people Ada had to tell her to STFU. Sometimes I feel as if two different writers write for Marian 🤷‍♂️

 

26 minutes ago, mansonlamps said:

I agree,  Marian's life experience makes her extraordinarily naive, but nothing she has done indicates any sort of malice.   She didn't have the internet to expand her very limited exposure to the world while growing up in Pennsylvania so she's making judgements based on what she knows.  Unfortunately she also doesn't seem to be self aware enough to understand her own limitations in social situations. 

As MissLucas said, Fanny in Mansfield Park could read people although she was 18 years old, lived in a her aunt's manor house and had met only a few people. Shy by nature and not "come out" until the second part of the novel, she keenly observed people who often forgot that she was present made better judgments than her uncle who had visited West Indies.

However, a better example is Anne Elliot in Austen's Persuasion who is a better judge of inner character than her godmother who sees only manners.  

[txhorns79]

I could just walk around those beautiful sets all day long just trying to find new details I previously overlooked. 

And could there be anything more Julian Fellowes than a scene where servants snip at one another over table settings? 

[Sarah 103]

19 hours ago, KarenX said:

I will just rant a minute about executive producers and show runners and associated personnel filling in details that the show doesn’t show. I feel like this started with JK Rowling and I was never much of a “formalist” in literary criticism (I preferred new historicism) but Eff Me if I don’t finally see the point and wish that authors and producers and whoever would STFU and stop adding crap that isn’t supported by the text/work and calling it GDMF canon.

Slightly on-topic/slightly off-topic. I have no problem with JK Rowling telling people in interviews and on websites what happened to the characters after the end of the 7th book, because as far as she knew, she wasn't planning on writing something else that would cover that time period in her Wizarding World Universe. I don't have an issue with her telling fans/readers who characters we didn't see in the 7th book's epilogue married and what they were doing. It's fun little bonus stuff that isn't really important to the main story.

If something is actually important and relevant to the story we are being told and watching in real time, than that information should be in the actual episode and not just mentioned in a bonus feature/podcast/website.  

[EtheltoTillie]

On 2/15/2022 at 6:31 PM, Haleth said:

I was surprised no one saw her. 

People spotting people in hallways is a tried and true soap opera technique.  It's big on Spanish telenovelas.

[eejm]

On 2/18/2022 at 12:26 PM, buckboard said:

Yes!  Just get a writer who would do the plot justice.

And they could also explain what Peggy was doing in Doylestown and why she needed a lawyer in New York.

Peggy being in Doylestown is one of my biggest questions.  I thought initially that she was possibly returning home from school, but I don’t think that was the case.  The school she attended (that Agnes and Ada knew) was a private black high school.  Peggy looks more like a college or grad student.  If she didn’t attend college, that surprises me as she from a prominent family.

[rollacoaster]

2 hours ago, izabella said:

3 hours ago, mansonlamps said:

And don't judge me,  but while I am all for equality in nudity,  I have no desire to see the peen in my period dramas, I'm good with just chest/abs or a butt shot or two.  It doesn't really set my heart aflutter frankly. 

This is why the male directors, producers, writers, and movie makers don't show it.  They know a soft penis isn't...compelling...and often can look....silly...if he's hopping and flopping around after jumping out of bed.  That is not how men want to be seen by viewers.

I'm not here for floppy peen either! They didn't show Turner's genitalia, just everything but, and for an unnecessarily long time. I'm just lobbying for similar treatment for an attractive man. 

[mansonlamps]

26 minutes ago, rollacoaster said:

I'm not here for floppy peen either! They didn't show Turner's genitalia, just everything but, and for an unnecessarily long time. I'm just lobbying for similar treatment for an attractive man. 

I totally agree,  but I saw multiple comments wishing for full male frontal?  Not sure of the appeal.

[Affogato]

13 hours ago, mansonlamps said:

I totally agree,  but I saw multiple comments wishing for full male frontal?  Not sure of the appeal.

I don’t think it has to be pornographic, people. I like naked people in general, even ones that aren’t perfect and could happily (and maybe nosily) watch them. The argument is why women and not men? Why should that exposure be common for the actresses, who may or may not be comfortable with it,  and avoidable for the male actors. Why undress the women at all if the men are mostly covered?

[peachmangosteen]

1 minute ago, Affogato said:

I don’t think it has to be pornographic, people. I like naked people in general, even ones that aren’t perfect and could happily (and maybe nosily) watch them. The argument is why women and not men? Why should that exposure be common for the actresses, who may or may not be comfortable with it,  and avoidable for the male actors. Why undress the women at all if the men are mostly covered?

Exactly. It was especially annoying in this instance since George got to put on a robe immediately and yet Turner sat there topless for like 5 minutes.

[MissLucas]

18 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Exactly. It was especially annoying in this instance since George got to put on a robe immediately and yet Turner sat there topless for like 5 minutes.

I agree with the sentiment but in this instance the actions (or non-actions in Turner's case) were actually serving characterisation and plot. George was uncomfortable and tried to distance himself as much as possible from the moment while Turner (like Marian not able to read the room) remained in her seductress pose hoping he'd change his mind if the ahem... goods remained on display.

[Affogato]

6 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

I agree with the sentiment but in this instance the actions (or non-actions in Turner's case) were actually serving characterisation and plot. George was uncomfortable and tried to distance himself as much as possible from the moment while Turner (like Marian not able to read the room) remained in her seductress pose hoping he'd change his mind if the ahem... goods remained on display.

Fair enough but the same message could have been communicated differently. She didn’t have to be unclothed in his bed. Being there could have been enough, since we can assume she wasn’t there to do any part if her real job. 
if it wasn’t a convention it wouldn’t in this case attract comment. 

[HappyHanna]

On 2/18/2022 at 12:31 PM, Pestilentia said:

The conversation between Marian and Raikes in the first episode concerned railroad stock that Marian knew her father owned. Raikes explained to her that stock rose and fell in value almost daily and that all that her father owned was now worthless. Seems like stealing those/lying about it would have been the 'easiest' way to defraud Marian if this is in fact where they are going. 

Given that "railroad goes bankrupt, investment gone" was done by Fellowes in Downton Abbey, I guess I am one of the few that thinks he is just going with the same trope in this one (along with scheming maid, old vs new money, distant relations...)

[Roseanna]

5 hours ago, Affogato said:

Fair enough but the same message could have been communicated differently. She didn’t have to be unclothed in his bed. Being there could have been enough, since we can assume she wasn’t there to do any part if her real job. 
if it wasn’t a convention it wouldn’t in this case attract comment. 

Maybe the aim was show that Turner wasn't good in seducing: she thought that being in the same bed nude was enough. Or maybe she had succeeded with this technique before and paid no attention to Mr Russell's different character and happy marriage. 

It's interesting that Russells sleep in separate bedrooms because it was an aristocratic habit.  But maybe either of them is f.ex. a bad sleeper, because they are in good terms and, as we have seen, have sex. 

In any case, this plot shows that giving subtle hints isn't Fellowes' habit: Turner's intentions were made clear several times. This is one more reason to me to believe that if there was something shady in Raikes, it would have been presented in the same manner.  

[buttersister]

I'm looking forward to seeing Christine Baranski and Nathan Lane together (do not disappoint me, Fellowes). Then, as he decides who the 400 (approved society) people are, and he meets the Russells (assuming that), and he likes Bertha--maybe--does that make it okay for Mrs. Astor while Agnes reads Ward McAllister the riot act? *Where's the popcorn?*

[Rosebud1970]

Nathan Lane!

He never disappoints. Looking forward to seeing him as Mrs. Astor's guard dog.

WRT to Turner. She had better hope that Russell never tells Bertha what she tried to do. Bertha Russell is as cold as ice (she got rid of Gladys' governess for a very minor infraction without so much as a faretheewell). But if she ever learns of Turner's night time incursion into Russell's bed, not only will she fire her, she will either have her killed or disfigured so badly that no one else would ever hire her for anything.

I'm getting a whiff of Ethan Frome here. But without the love. 

[rollacoaster]

16 hours ago, MissLucas said:

16 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Exactly. It was especially annoying in this instance since George got to put on a robe immediately and yet Turner sat there topless for like 5 minutes.

I agree with the sentiment but in this instance the actions (or non-actions in Turner's case) were actually serving characterisation and plot. George was uncomfortable and tried to distance himself as much as possible from the moment while Turner (like Marian not able to read the room) remained in her seductress pose hoping he'd change his mind if the ahem... goods remained on display.

Honestly, this makes sense. I do think that once it established that she was indeed nekkid, they could have chosen to focus on her face, or the back of her for the rest of the scene. 

It's probably cuz it's on HBO. That scene as presented here def wouldn't have been on network TV or PBS. 

I'm flashing back to all the gratuitous female nudity on GOT...

[CattyK]

1 hour ago, rollacoaster said:

Honestly, this makes sense. I do think that once it established that she was indeed nekkid, they could have chosen to focus on her face, or the back of her for the rest of the scene. 

It's probably cuz it's on HBO. That scene as presented here def wouldn't have been on network TV or PBS. 

I'm flashing back to all the gratuitous female nudity on GOT...

Yes.  The shot could easily have been framed differently so we weren’t looking at Turners naked chest.  Or George could have been wearing pajama pants and we could have at least seen his naked chest when he was standing.  

Speaking of GOT, I quit watching it because of the wholly unnecessary amount of female nudity.  That really made me mad.  

[PRgal]

On 2/19/2022 at 6:13 PM, eejm said:

Peggy being in Doylestown is one of my biggest questions.  I thought initially that she was possibly returning home from school, but I don’t think that was the case.  The school she attended (that Agnes and Ada knew) was a private black high school.  Peggy looks more like a college or grad student.  If she didn’t attend college, that surprises me as she from a prominent family.

It doesn’t surprise me that much. There were women’s colleges and some co-ed schools at that time, but few had black students.  Prominent  HBCUs like Spelman weren’t founded for another year or two.  

Edited February 21, 2022 by PRgal

[Roseanna]

5 hours ago, rollacoaster said:

It's probably cuz it's on HBO. That scene as presented here def wouldn't have been on network TV or PBS. 

I, for one, found quite hilarious that nowadays many female characters have bras when they make love.  Not to speak of the scene in Downton Abbey where Anna and Bates after just making love in their wedding night and lie talking over a half meter from each other entangled in their own sheets. 

That said, I think that the most important thing shouldn't be to excite audience (but I wonder how that would succeed after showing it all so many times) but to describe the characters' feelings and their relationship.    

[eejm]

2 hours ago, PRgal said:

It doesn’t surprise me that much. There were women’s colleges and some co-ed schools at that time, but few had black students.  Prominent  HBCUs like Spelman weren’t founded for another year or two.  

Yeah, I was thinking Peggy might be a Howard grad as that is/was coed.  I don’t know how many female students they had at the time, though.  It just seemed odd to me as Peggy doesn’t look like a high schooler.

[AZChristian]

1 hour ago, Roseanna said:

That said, I think that the most important thing shouldn't be to excite audience (but I wonder how that would succeed after showing it all so many times) but to describe the characters' feelings and their relationship.    

I think this scene on the show did exactly that.  Turner let George know that she was going to do anything to begin a "relationship" with him.  

He - although sleeping nude - showed his lack of interest in her by jumping out of bed and immediately covering himself and then putting on his bathrobe, signaling, "I don't care how brazen you are, I am NOT looking for sex on the side."

By staying there in bed and uncovering herself even more, Turner thought she could make him more interested.  She just made herself look desperate and pathetic.

[peachmangosteen]

6 hours ago, rollacoaster said:

I do think that once it established that she was indeed nekkid, they could have chosen to focus on her face, or the back of her for the rest of the scene. 

 

4 hours ago, CattyK said:

Yes.  The shot could easily have been framed differently so we weren’t looking at Turners naked chest.  Or George could have been wearing pajama pants and we could have at least seen his naked chest when he was standing.  

Exactly. 

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, eejm said:

Yeah, I was thinking Peggy might be a Howard grad as that is/was coed.  I don’t know how many female students they had at the time, though.  It just seemed odd to me as Peggy doesn’t look like a high schooler.

That's because Denée Benton is 30!  And people looked older back then.  Louisa Jacobson (Marian) is also 30.  

[MizLottie]

On 2/19/2022 at 12:53 PM, izabella said:

This is why the male directors, producers, writers, and movie makers don't show it.  They know a soft penis isn't...compelling...and often can look....silly...if he's hopping and flopping around after jumping out of bed.  That is not how men want to be seen by viewers.

Silly is what you see in Righteous Gemstones, there's a bare dick in every episode and they're all cringeworthy. 

Edited February 21, 2022 by MizLottie

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, AZChristian said:

I think this scene on the show did exactly that.  Turner let George know that she was going to do anything to begin a "relationship" with him.  

He - although sleeping nude - showed his lack of interest in her by jumping out of bed and immediately covering himself and then putting on his bathrobe, signaling, "I don't care how brazen you are, I am NOT looking for sex on the side."

By staying there in bed and uncovering herself even more, Turner thought she could make him more interested.  She just made herself look desperate and pathetic.

Yeah, I have to believe constantly showing her naked was supposed to emphasize desperate and pathetic. Though I'm sure there are some viewers who just appreciate the nudity, at a certain point she stops looking shocking and seductive and just starts looking like a social faux pas.

Edited February 21, 2022 by sistermagpie

[rollacoaster]

7 hours ago, CattyK said:

Speaking of GOT, I quit watching it because of the wholly unnecessary amount of female nudity.  That really made me mad.  

It was wholly exploitive. 

20 minutes ago, MizLottie said:

On 2/19/2022 at 2:53 PM, izabella said:

This is why the male directors, producers, writers, and movie makers don't show it.  They know a soft penis isn't...compelling...and often can look....silly...if he's hopping and flopping around after jumping out of bed.  That is not how men want to be seen by viewers.

Silly is what you see in Righteous Gemstones, there's a bare dick in every episode and they're all cringeworthy. 

I've heard that show is pretty funny. Cringeworthy, comic peen must only add to the shenanigans. And probably get pretty tiresome after a while. 

[Maisiesmom]

OK, so what happened to Mrs. Morris? Has she been thrown out of society, never to return? People were being catty even at the funeral. And will Marion ever figure shit out? She seems to have blinders on, going to Brooklyn (alone!), running into the "tainted" woman in the store, pissing her friend off (and the maid) by assuming they were poor. UGH! And Ada's weeping about her dog-I thought it was funny at first but as it went on and on, I started to share Agnes's opinion-buck up, missy! And Bannister commenting on the Russells's house, menu and table settings? Jeeze Louise knock it off! Once again, the gowns were beautiful, esp. the red dress (and cape!) that Bertha wore to the symphony. Now, Turner needs to go! George should really tell his wife (even though Bertha might cut a bitch!) but her not knowing what Turner is trying to do could be very damaging in the long run.  Anyway, it should be fun when Nathan Lane shows up. I'm sure his character will have lots to say about everybody and everything.

[AntFTW]

1 hour ago, Maisiesmom said:

OK, so what happened to Mrs. Morris? Has she been thrown out of society, never to return?

I guess we'll have to tune in to find out.

1 hour ago, Maisiesmom said:

And will Marion ever figure shit out?

[eleanorofaquitaine]

On 2/21/2022 at 4:45 AM, CattyK said:

Yes.  The shot could easily have been framed differently so we weren’t looking at Turners naked chest.  Or George could have been wearing pajama pants and we could have at least seen his naked chest when he was standing.  

Speaking of GOT, I quit watching it because of the wholly unnecessary amount of female nudity.  That really made me mad.  

We did see George's naked chest (and I must say that I suspect George is much more built and in far better shape than most Robber Barons of the era) but I would agree with those who say that it wouldn't have made much sense for him to stand there with his bare chest. He wasn't interested in Turner's seduction efforts and putting his robe on quickly sent that message. 

There is definitely inequities in tv when it comes to male and female nudity but I think in this particular scene, the nudity was communicating a message about these two characters. I would also say that on this show, as of now, we have seen more nude male chests, thanks to Oscar van Rhijn and John Adams IV, than we have seen female nude chests.

Edited February 22, 2022 by eleanorofaquitaine

[rollacoaster]

2 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

There is definitely inequities in tv when it comes to male and female nudity but I think in this particular scene, the nudity was communicating a message about these two characters. I would also say that on this show, as of now, we have seen more nude male chests, thanks to Oscar van Rhijn and John Adams IV, than we have seen female nude chests.

Good point. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 2/21/2022 at 4:45 AM, CattyK said:

Yes.  The shot could easily have been framed differently so we weren’t looking at Turners naked chest.  Or George could have been wearing pajama pants and we could have at least seen his naked chest when he was standing.  

Speaking of GOT, I quit watching it because of the wholly unnecessary amount of female nudity.  That really made me mad.  

Thank you

It's so obvious when you watch a movie or a TV whether people are just doing "male gaze" (women showing breasts all the time, sometimes women are even fully frontally nude, men are never nude) or whether people are respectful of the "female gaze" (men are actually seen as desirable sex objects sometimes, men are younger than the women sometimes, women aren't gratuitously nude for no reason).  Unfortunately that's a heteronormative way of putting it, and there should be a much more modern term for it that I'm ignorant of.

We can make all the plot justifications we want but as of now, Gilded Age is clearly showing a bias that's very obvious so far.  

Edited February 22, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[peachmangosteen]

And to me naked male chests aren’t in the same realm as naked female chests. For equality, I need to see some George ass, dammit! 

[Scarlett45]

On 2/17/2022 at 1:25 AM, Roseanna said:

Does anyone know about the American law in 1880ies? What were the legal rights of the women in 1880is (unmarried, married, widows)? Could she marry whom she pleased and at which age? Had she a right to with her wages and fortune what she wanted? What were conditions of divorce? Could she get the custody of her children after divorce or was the father always their sole guardian? 

Unmarried white women had generally the same property rights as men- they couldn’t vote or sit on juries, but they could be in charge of their own funds at the age of majority (21) assuming it wasn’t tied up in a trust.
 

They could buy/ and sell property (legally) but it wasn’t illegal to discriminate against them in matters of lending etc. They could move around/marry who they wanted at 21 (legally) but socially that was another matter. 
 

Married women were a different kettle of fish- unless your money was tied up in a family trust, anything you owned belonged to your husband. At marriage you became one legal person with your husband and that person was a man. Your kids were his unless he let you have custody/visitation. 
 

That’s why being a wealthy widow (like Ada) was a prime spot. You had the social benefits of having been married, children (and if you had a son to represent you when needed), and freedom to do what you wanted to do with your money. 
 

I know I’m a week behind everyone but I have to raise a glass to Peggy’s mom played by QUEEN AUDRA MCDONALD. Yes she was damn mad her child wouldn’t even stay for birthday cake- her husband is on her bad side for real now. 

[Scarlett45]

Also- I want to echo everyone’s sentiments that George didn’t fire Turner because he believed what he told her. He probably got a thrill of her flirting but was a wee bit surprised she would actually show up nude in his bed (she should be damn glad his wife wasn’t there! I think they normally hang out in her room, but they can change it up)

 

But this being tv I think they will sleep together (or at least be inappropriate). Not that I think George would ever want to leave Bertha, nor do I think he’d want to keep Turner as a mistress, something is going to happen. 

[Roseanna]

3 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Also- I want to echo everyone’s sentiments that George didn’t fire Turner because he believed what he told her. He probably got a thrill of her flirting but was a wee bit surprised she would actually show up nude in his bed (she should be damn glad his wife wasn’t there! I think they normally hang out in her room, but they can change it up)

Before, there has been several scenes which have shown that Bertha has her own bedroom. This was the only time we saw George's bedroom.

We have seen that George only comes to Bertha's bedroom when he either has some business with her (she is upset and needs comfort or they have succeeded about something) and/or wants to make love to her.

As Bertha's ladies' maid Turner knows that there is no chance that Bertha would be in George's bed.

She knows also that they don't make love very often which is why she had made her plan. 

4 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Unmarried white women had generally the same property rights as men- they couldn’t vote or sit on juries, but they could be in charge of their own funds at the age of majority (21) assuming it wasn’t tied up in a trust.

They could buy/ and sell property (legally) but it wasn’t illegal to discriminate against them in matters of lending etc. They could move around/marry who they wanted at 21 (legally) but socially that was another matter. 

Married women were a different kettle of fish- unless your money was tied up in a family trust, anything you owned belonged to your husband. At marriage you became one legal person with your husband and that person was a man. Your kids were his unless he let you have custody/visitation. 

That’s why being a wealthy widow (like Ada) was a prime spot. You had the social benefits of having been married, children (and if you had a son to represent you when needed), and freedom to do what you wanted to do with your money. 

Thank you!

[Scarlett45]

4 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Before, there has been several scenes which have shown that Bertha has her own bedroom. This was the only time we saw George's bedroom.

We have seen that George only comes to Bertha's bedroom when he either has some business with her (she is upset and needs comfort or they have succeeded about something) and/or wants to make love to her.

Yes, based on what we have seen George usually goes to Bertha’s room not vice versa- but it would’ve been a bit of drama if that particular evening Bertha just felt like visiting her husband in the middle of the night. 
 

Given the type of relationship George and Bertha have, I highly doubt if Bertha came to visit he would turn her away. Or it would’ve made for a good bit of writing if another member of the house staff saw Turner coming out of George’s room. 

[Scarlett45]

I also wanted to mention- I don’t think Mr Raikes is nefarious. I do think he genuinely likes Marion, and his proposal was genuine, but he also wants to social climb (nothing wrong with that). He ran into an old classmate who comes from “old money” and got invited to sit in their box. Did you see the size of the necklace on the young lady he was sitting next to? Marion had on a little diamond necklace but that thing was huge. 
 

I can see Mr Raikes making social connections, and maybe catching the eye of a younger daughter of a wealthy old money law partner. I see him being intrigued by the idea of marrying this wealthy woman, with a huge dowry and an “in” with a major law firm, and being conflicted because he does like Marion- but choosing the other woman in the end. 

[Roseanna]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

Yes, based on what we have seen George usually goes to Bertha’s room not vice versa- but it would’ve been a bit of drama if that particular evening Bertha just felt like visiting her husband in the middle of the night. 
 

Given the type of relationship George and Bertha have, I highly doubt if Bertha came to visit he would turn her away. Or it would’ve made for a good bit of writing if another member of the house staff saw Turner coming out of George’s room. 

I doubt if it was "proper" to a wife at that time to make sexual initiatives - at least directly.

In any case, the plot demanded that George was alone. Which was why they also had separate bedroom. 

[phoenics]

On 2/15/2022 at 2:40 PM, ribboninthesky1 said:

It's one thing if she had to endure all of that because she had nowhere else to go, but to tolerate it because she doesn't want to work for her father makes her appear almost as ungrateful and immature as Marian.

I think it's because of whatever caused her and her father to become estranged.  We've seen speculation that it's a baby he made her give away or a marriage he forced her into?  Whatever it is, Raikes appears to be helping her with it.

I'm concerned about what's going to happen with Raikes and Peggy's secret once Marian finally figures out he's no good?  I can see him turning on both of them.

[J-Man]

On 2/15/2022 at 5:53 AM, pasdetrois said:

I think another poster mentioned it - this series is stuffed with theater actors.

Not just theater actors -- MUSICAL theater actors! Seems a waste not to be able to use their musical talents on this show. Off the top of my head, all of these people have starred in major Broadway musicals:

Denée Benton (Peggy Scott)

Michael Cerveris (Watson)

Douglas Sills (M. Baudin)

Donna Murphy (Mrs. Astor)

Kelli O'Hara (Mrs. Fane)

Audra McDonald (Mrs. Scott)

Nathan Lane (Ward McAllister)

Bill Irwin (Cornelius Eckhard)

Christine Baranski (Agnes)

Celia Keenan-Bolger (Mrs. Bruce)

Katie Finneran (Mrs. Morris)

Debra Monk (Armstrong)

Claybourne Elder (John Adams)

Ron Raines (Mr. Thorburn)

Every time I hear the name "Morris" on this show I think of "The Heiress," in which Montgomery Clift plays a man named Morris who is a gold digger in pursuit of the homely New York heiress Olivia DeHavilland (who won an Oscar for her performance), whose father strongly disapproves. Somewhat of a parallel to some of this show's storylines. Was that movie (which was originally a play and is based on Henry James's "Washington Square) set in the same time period as "The Gilded Age?" The book was published in 1880, but I'm not sure if it took place at that time or further in the past.

 

 

 

[SomeTameGazelle]

 

On 2/14/2022 at 10:38 PM, DesiJF said:

Who is Mr. Russell' valet stalking? 

 

On 2/14/2022 at 11:05 PM, Broderbits said:

It seems like he's trying to catch a glimpse of someone he loves, or used to love.

I thought that the juxtaposition of his mooning in the street with Aunt Ada's admission that she had had a suitor whose station was beneath hers suggested that he was that suitor. (Since Aunt  Ada didn't remind Marian they had seen Cornelius Eckhart in the previous episode I didn't think she meant Cornelius.)

On 2/14/2022 at 11:08 PM, sistermagpie said:

But still, from a 21st century perspective it's weird to think dropping by the (pre-telephone) house of the person you hang out with every day more than anyone, who knows about your secret marriage proposal and who you hooked up with a secret lawyer is like barging into a stranger's house. 

 

If my new best friend said she was going to her parents' house that I had never been to for one meal, I think they would find it strange if I just dropped in during the meal without any urgent necessity.

On 2/16/2022 at 10:01 AM, MissLucas said:

I agree that Turner keeping her job after that stunt is unrealistic and George's lines sounded OOC. The only reason she's still around is plot armor.

 There was a brief and shining moment where I feared and hoped that George was going to strangle her to death.  Absolutely dreading the trouble she is going to cause, whether it is completing her alleged seduction or lying to someone that she has.

 

Edited March 24, 2022 by SomeTameGazelle
Cleaning up irrelevant quotes

[sistermagpie]

3 minutes ago, SomeTameGazelle said:

 

If my new best friend said she was going to her parents' house that I had never been to for one meal, I think they would find it strange if I just dropped in during the meal without any urgent necessity. 

 

But there's a big difference between something being strange like "Who's this? Oh, you're a friend of Sometamegazelle? Um, okay. We're having lunch. Would your friend like something to drink?" and "How dare you barge into our house, total stranger I could have turned away but invited to wait just so I could tell you that!" 

[SomeTameGazelle]

On 3/23/2022 at 10:16 PM, sistermagpie said:

But there's a big difference between something being strange like "Who's this? Oh, you're a friend of Sometamegazelle? Um, okay. We're having lunch. Would your friend like something to drink?" and "How dare you barge into our house, total stranger I could have turned away but invited to wait just so I could tell you that!" 

They went to see her in the parlor instead of turning her away because they assumed that Marian must have a good and urgent reason for suddenly showing up.  Peggy's father was a little blunter than Peggy's mother seemed to be about the intrusion, because he was already a little resentful that Peggy was working for Mrs van Rhijn.  He didn't think of it as a social call, but as an employer demanding the attention of an employee. 

[sistermagpie]

8 minutes ago, SomeTameGazelle said:

They went to see her in the parlor instead of turning her away because they assumed that Marian must have a good and urgent reason for suddenly showing up.  Peggy's father was a little blunter than Peggy's mother seemed to be about the intrusion, because he was already a little resentful that Peggy was working for Mrs van Rhijn.  He didn't think of it as a social call, but as an employer demanding the attention of an employee. 

But that's what I said. Those are all explanations for what was happening in this scene, taking place in the gilded age etc. etc. In 2022 if a friend drops by your house unexpectedly while you're visiting your parents you might all be surprised, but your parents would probably not react this way and if they did they'd probably wind up being the crazy ones in the story.

[Camera One]

Not much to say about this one.

I can't believe there was a subplot about a lost dog, but the butler's visit was amusing.  Mrs. Russell didn't react that she didn't get to return the dog herself?  Or was she not planning to?

I thought we would check in with Mrs. Morris in this one.  I wonder how she feels about Mrs. Fane helping out Mrs. Russell.

Marian interrupting Peggy's lunch with her parents was cringeworthy and unnecessary.

Wouldn't someone have seen Marian entering the house of The Disgraced?

[Chalby]

On 2/14/2022 at 10:44 PM, Noneofyourbusiness said:

Not blaming the father because he was "mad" seems more of the past to me.

I've always thought mothers must have continuously, and historically, been blamed for their partners inexcusable behaviour towards their children.

I say this because if men had been confronted or held accountable throughout the centuries for their despicable acts, we'd witness the results... there'd be far more progress in prosecuting this behaviour, strict laws set, preset jailtimes, as well as fines, and publicity.