S01.E04: A Long Ladder

[retired watcher]

On 2/14/2022 at 10:57 PM, peridot said:

Marian thought she could drop by without invitation because they were nobody and don't deserve the courtesy afforded to everyone else.
I was half expecting her not to have any card at all, after she barged her way into their home.

The remark about her aunt "letting her stay" was messed up, I'm glad Peggy snapped back to stop pretending they were friends.

George really should have let his wife know what her maid did.  She would feel humiliated that her husband has a secret with one of her staff.

I was expecting for the butler's visit to the new home to be a positive thing, not looking down his nose at the other staff.

I really can't understand Marian's thought process - she respects her aunts enough to snub Mrs. Chamberlain but not enough that it affects her courting with Raikes?  I really hated that she dragged Peggy into the shop too, without trying to read the room.

I may be wrong but I got the impression the butler was tying to help the Russell's butler by letting him know the proper way things should be done.

[Atlanta]

I'm becoming a Bertha fangirl. She doesn't take crap and is ride or die with her husband. Those two took their wedding vows seriously. They are two peas in a pod. Don't tussle with the Russells! 

[CattyK]

7 hours ago, dmc said:

I don't know crawling in to bed naked with someone is a seduction more like an assault.    I feel like that's the weird aspect here, what made her think this would work?

I thought the scene would be that she gets in bed with him, starts touching him, he doesn’t fully wake up but turns over and starts responding, then they’re doing the deed.  Maybe then he wakes up and is shocked etc but it is too late.    Based on my opinion of Fellowes love of unlikely overly melodramatic plot points, that’s what I was afraid would happen.  So that’s what I think Turner was hoping for.  
What comes after that scenario though, I don’t know, maybe she hoped to get pregnant.  

needless to say, I was relieved when he quickly woke up.   

[AntFTW]

7 minutes ago, Atlanta said:

I'm becoming a Bertha fangirl. She doesn't take crap and is ride or die with her husband. Those two took their wedding vows seriously. They are two peas in a pod. Don't tussle with the Russells! 

I've become a devil's advocate with Bertha. Bertha is not that great of a person... BUT the other people are just so much worse, which puts me in a position to defend Bertha.

[Athena5217]

On 2/14/2022 at 10:57 PM, peridot said:

I really can't understand Marian's thought process - she respects her aunts enough to snub Mrs. Chamberlain but not enough that it affects her courting with Raikes?  I really hated that she dragged Peggy into the shop too, without trying to read the room.

But she didn’t snub Mrs. Chamberlain. She was polite to her in the store and Mrs. C had to tell her they couldn’t hang out. This and her interactions with Peggy show how naive she is. She invited Peggy to her aunts’s house because it never occurred to her they wouldn’t want a Black woman in their house—just like it never occurred to her that a Black women wasn’t welcome in that store. Marian is prejudiced in thinking Peggy must be poor because she is Black, but I doubt she has had many relationships with Black people before Peggy.

Peggy is justified in her anger at Marian, but I hope she will forgive her because Marian does seem to like her and support her writing.

[AntFTW]

4 hours ago, Atlanta said:

I know Agnes is old money, but I'm not getting the impression they are mega wealthy. Was the late Mr Van Rijn rich? It was mentioned that their brother lost their money, IIRC.

My impression is that the Van Rhijn family is wealthy. Agnes' and Ada's brother, Henry Brook, lost the Brook family fortune and that is why Agnes married into the wealthy Van Rhijn family.

The appearance of wealth among the Old Money is not as extravagant as you would see the Russells and now the Chamberlains. New Money tended to have more wealth because they made their money in the "hottest" growth industries of the era. Old Money was conservative relative to New Money. Within the show, we've seen inside the houses of the Astors, the Fanes, the Morrises, the Fishes and obviously the Van Rhijns. Those Old Money houses are pretty conservative compared to that of the Russells and the Chamberlains, which we see for the first time in this episode.

Edited February 17, 2022 by AntFTW

[Hiyo]

Yeah, and I think old money also didn't flaunt their wealth the way new money did, even if they ended up eventually accepting the way new money would throw their money around.

I mean, we may swoon at the lavish sumptuousness of Bertha's outfits, but I have a feeling a lot of old money at the time would see her as a tacky and gauche nouveau riche try hard.

Edited February 17, 2022 by Hiyo

[Roseanna]

8 hours ago, BabyBella94 said:

He did bring her alone into the office, he shouldn't have done that. It wasn't something a "society lady" does. 

Even "society lady" can have sensitive matters she wants to negotiate with a lawyer in private. How can she do that if she can't be alone in his office? Besides, already in the pilot Marian and Mr Raikes were alone in his office.

Does anyone know about the American law in 1880ies? What were the legal rights of the women in 1880is (unmarried, married, widows)? Could she marry whom she pleased and at which age? Had she a right to with her wages and fortune what she wanted? What were conditions of divorce? Could she get the custody of her children after divorce or was the father always their sole guardian? 

[Roseanna]

54 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

Yeah, and I think old money also didn't flaunt their wealth the way new money did, even if they ended up eventually accepting the way new money would throw their money around.

I mean, we may swoon at the lavish sumptuousness of Bertha's outfits, but I have a feeling a lot of old money at the time would see her as a tacky and gauche nouveau riche try hard.

Exactly. When everyone knows who you are, you don't have show it with clothes (cf. English aristocracy). In the same time, Russells built a new house, but the Old Money has lived in their houses for generations (cf. Lady Mary said to Carlisle something like: our kind of people doesn't buy furniture, we inherit them).

 

 

[Roseanna]

12 hours ago, Straycat80 said:

Did anyone else notice during the scene in the theater box when Marian said something about Raikes there was a ‘look’ that passed between Bertha and Mrs. Fain? Definitely think something is shady about him now.

As somebody already said, the explanation of that look might be different: Bertha had made an elemental mistake by asking openly whether Mr Raikes had money. That showed her vulgarity. 

Generally, I find rather odd that Raikes is not credited for the great service he did to Marian by refusing his lawyer's bill about his father's estate but deemed shady because his little errors in the proper courting - especially as they follow Fellowes' concept of romance (cf. Tom Branson and Lady Sybil, Henry Talbot and Lady Mary). 

[Roseanna]

Continueing:

To me, Agnes' claim "I am always right" is a hint that she actually woudn't be. Agnes has strong class prejudices.

But let's wait and see. 

[Affogato]

5 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Even "society lady" can have sensitive matters she wants to negotiate with a lawyer in private. How can she do that if she can't be alone in his office? Besides, already in the pilot Marian and Mr Raikes were alone in his office.

Does anyone know about the American law in 1880ies? What were the legal rights of the women in 1880is (unmarried, married, widows)? Could she marry whom she pleased and at which age? Had she a right to with her wages and fortune what she wanted? What were conditions of divorce? Could she get the custody of her children after divorce or was the father always their sole guardian? 

I found this when posting in 1883:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_women's_legal_rights_in_the_United_States_(other_than_voting)

varies from state to state and apparently being married was a huge componenr

 

[Roseanna]

1 hour ago, Affogato said:

I found this when posting in 1883:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_women's_legal_rights_in_the_United_States_(other_than_voting)

varies from state to state and apparently being married was a huge componenr

 

Thank you.  

Of course life (i. e. fathers and husbands) could be different from law. 

[izabella]

4 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Generally, I find rather odd that Raikes is not credited for the great service he did to Marian by refusing his lawyer's bill about his father's estate but deemed shady because his little errors in the proper courting - especially as they follow Fellowes' concept of romance (cf. Tom Branson and Lady Sybil, Henry Talbot and Lady Mary). 

Maybe Marian didn't tell anybody what Raikes did about his fee. 

In any case, I don't think it would matter to Agnes, Ada, or Old NY.  Raikes was beneath Marian in terms of social class, and as Ada told her, "marrying beneath you is no guarantee of happiness," or something like that.  No matter how he courted Marian, he'd still be beneath her and therefore undesirable.

[Affogato]

6 hours ago, Roseanna said:

As somebody already said, the explanation of that look might be different: Bertha had made an elemental mistake by asking openly whether Mr Raikes had money. That showed her vulgarity. 

Generally, I find rather odd that Raikes is not credited for the great service he did to Marian by refusing his lawyer's bill about his father's estate but deemed shady because his little errors in the proper courting - especially as they follow Fellowes' concept of romance (cf. Tom Branson and Lady Sybil, Henry Talbot and Lady Mary). 

Well, to be cynical, if he stole from her father he would not want to draw attention to himself. Charging Marian a fee he knows she cannot pay might attract her aunt’s lawyer or other undesired attention. Best be magnanimous. 

[OtterMommy]

19 hours ago, dmc said:

I don't know crawling in to bed naked with someone is a seduction more like an assault.    I feel like that's the weird aspect here, what made her think this would work?

I agree that this should be recognized as assault instead of whitewashed into "seduction."  I think that is much more revealing as to Turner's character.

My theory as to why George didn't fire her on the spot: He's very protective of his wife and he realizes how ruthless Turner is.  Therefore, he may think it is safer to keep her under his roof where he can maintain some control instead of kicking her out where she can say or do anything in revenge that might harm his wife.

[Roseanna]

47 minutes ago, Affogato said:

Well, to be cynical, if he stole from her father he would not want to draw attention to himself. Charging Marian a fee he knows she cannot pay might attract her aunt’s lawyer or other undesired attention. Best be magnanimous. 

"If" he stole?

If Marian's father had owned his house as he had claimed to his daughter, how on earth could it been stolen? Was there no law in the US? Had the town no register who owned houses?

[Emmybean]

10 hours ago, Hiyo said:

Yeah, and I think old money also didn't flaunt their wealth the way new money did, even if they ended up eventually accepting the way new money would throw their money around.

I mean, we may swoon at the lavish sumptuousness of Bertha's outfits, but I have a feeling a lot of old money at the time would see her as a tacky and gauche nouveau riche try hard.

The Mrs Astors of this time would go to Paris, buy the latest fashions at Worth, then put them away for two years so they wouldn’t seem flashy and new-fangled.

[Tango64]

26 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

"If" he stole?

If Marian's father had owned his house as he had claimed to his daughter, how on earth could it been stolen? Was there no law in the US? Had the town no register who owned houses?

I don't recall details of how it was described in the first episode, but if her father was in great debt when he died, perhaps including mortgages on the house, there might have been no choice but to sell it. His daughter doesn't automatically get the house in those circumstances. Same as today.

[Affogato]

33 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

"If" he stole?

If Marian's father had owned his house as he had claimed to his daughter, how on earth could it been stolen? Was there no law in the US? Had the town no register who owned houses?

He may not have had his house but had other assets. The money from the sale of the house could have been sipjoned to the lawyer. He could even have tried to hide assets for marion from his debtors with the help of the lawyer and the lawyer kept them. 

[HappyHanna]

15 hours ago, retired watcher said:

I may be wrong but I got the impression the butler was tying to help the Russell's butler by letting him know the proper way things should be done.

I'm somewhat torn on this. While I like Bannister as a character, I want to think he was helping. However, as there was (is? I don't go much in for fancy parties :) ) a difference between the American and European place setting, I took it partly as another Old Money vs New Money snub (Old Money uses the European setting, whereas New Money (how uncouth!) uses the American setting).  While I couldn't find through a quick google anything that spells out the differences, I did see a number of pictures from sources showing the oyster fork on its own spoon, so maybe American wins out with the New Money. :) 

[izabella]

29 minutes ago, Tango64 said:

I don't recall details of how it was described in the first episode, but if her father was in great debt when he died, perhaps including mortgages on the house, there might have been no choice but to sell it. His daughter doesn't automatically get the house in those circumstances. Same as today.

Raikes said her father never owned the house - it was rented.

[sempervivum]

My favorite scene was the overhead view of the Russells' amazing kitchen.  A staff the size of a large restaurant now (pre-plague, at least) for a household of 4! I know some of them were not kitchen servants, but there were a lot of folks shown buzzing around carrying food and taking stuff out of ovens.

Re. snobby Old Money butler sneering at New Money menu, etc. : I wondered why Mrs. Russell wouldn't be checking out the latest rules for table arrangements in the many ladies' magazines of the day? And why Church and Ze French Chef wouldn't be au courant about the correct choices?

Re. Raikes at the opera: am I the only one who was wondering about the cutesy reaction of Mrs. Schermerhorn, imploring him to return to her box (so to speak)? She's looked almost as attractive as Bertha to me.  Also, Mr. Fane attended with his wife, why wasn't George there?

[KarenX]

2 minutes ago, sempervivum said:

Re. snobby Old Money butler sneering at New Money menu, etc. : I wondered why Mrs. Russell wouldn't be checking out the latest rules for table arrangements in the many ladies' magazines of the day? And why Church and Ze French Chef wouldn't be au courant about the correct choices?

Also… who says that Agnes and Ada are even up to date? It seems like a fossilized house. One advantage of having children in society is keeping up with trends. Maybe the Russell staff is savvy about who to listen to, too. 
 

Picking who to imitate is a skill on its own.

[AntFTW]

2 hours ago, Tango64 said:

I don't recall details of how it was described in the first episode, but if her father was in great debt when he died, perhaps including mortgages on the house, there might have been no choice but to sell it. His daughter doesn't automatically get the house in those circumstances. Same as today.

The house was rented. Therefore, he could not have had a mortgage on the house.

Marian had no money. She could not have afforded to continue paying the rent. The rent was paid until the end of the month, which gave Marian time to arrange the move to New York.

[Nicmar]

22 hours ago, Roseanna said:

The hotel yes  but not the office. 

Besides, Gladys went to the hotel to meet a man and her governess thought it was "innocent". It seems that Fellowes doesn't exactly follow the habits of the time.

Am I missing something? How did Mrs. Russell know that Gladys went into a hotel to meet with a guy?

[Roseanna]

1 hour ago, sempervivum said:

Re. Raikes at the opera: am I the only one who was wondering about the cutesy reaction of Mrs. Schermerhorn, imploring him to return to her box (so to speak)? 

Wasn't Mrs Schermerhorn saying something like that she had "reserved" Mr Raikes to another lady in her box, hinting that he should concentrate on her, not Marian.

In any case, Raikes has been accepted (a guest in "the academy box") easily and swiftly, whereas Russells are not.

I would rather guess that if Raikes has a secret it's something like that he is an heir to a rich aunt but he wants Marian and her aunts to accept him for himself.

[AntFTW]

5 minutes ago, Nicmar said:

Am I missing something? How did Mrs. Russell know that Gladys went into a hotel to meet with a guy?

The guy was stupid enough to send a letter to the Russells' house and Bertha read it.

[Roseanna]

8 minutes ago, Nicmar said:

Am I missing something? How did Mrs. Russell know that Gladys went into a hotel to meet with a guy?

I don't remember if it was told, but it's really easy to guess: somebody who knew the family had seen Gladys and the guy in the hotel and told her mother. After all, circles are small.

[Carolina Girl]

19 hours ago, Adgirl said:

Dowager Countess lament having to break in a new ladies' maid

It is amusing that this same actress, Maggie Smith, as the Countess of Trentham, would also make a similar remark - "I'm breaking in a new lady's maid and I'm frankly exhausted" - in another Fellowes project - "Gosford Park."

[AntFTW]

22 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

I don't remember if it was told, but it's really easy to guess: somebody who knew the family had seen Gladys and the guy in the hotel and told her mother. After all, circles are small.

Bertha opened Gladys' letter that I assume she received in the mail. That's how she found out.

 

ETA: May have been a footman instead of mail... I'm speculating.

Edited February 17, 2022 by AntFTW

[Carolina Girl]

17 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

I think they are wealthy, isn’t that the whole point of the show, the great wealth of the old money Van Rijns, etc?

There's an old saying:

Old money's motto is "if you have it, hide it."

New money's motto is "if you've got it, flaunt it."

[blackwing]

I enjoyed this episode a lot, and this was the first episode where I didn't find Bertha to be nasty.  I saw her for the first time as how she is probably to be intended, since she is supposed to be the protagonist of the show.  She is a woman who is trying to break into society and is facing an uphill climb.  I thought she was very appreciative of Mrs. Fane inviting her to the concert, and she looked like she was enjoying herself.

Question... are the Russells supposed to be Jewish?  George looks Jewish, and I'm pretty sure the actor is Jewish.  I think there was a lot of anti-Jewish sentiment back then amongst the Old New York families and that could be an additional reason why they don't want to accept them.

It should have been obvious to Marian that Peggy's family is wealthy.  Or at the very least, not poor.  She wears expensive clothes and hats, if she had been poor she would have had maybe two or three simple dresses.  We learned that Peggy's dad owns a drug store which seems to provide the source of their wealth.  Peggy is now employed as a secretary in the van Rhijn house and is a soon-to-be-published writer. 

But how did she earn her living before moving to New York?  What was she doing in Doylestown?  Also, I'm pretty sure she told Marian that she was visiting her parents in Brooklyn.  I don't think she had planned to make the move permanent.  She didn't say anything about how she was leaving Doylestown permanent, did she?  What about all of her affairs/belongings/job in Pennsylvania?

2 hours ago, sempervivum said:

Re. Raikes at the opera: am I the only one who was wondering about the cutesy reaction of Mrs. Schermerhorn, imploring him to return to her box (so to speak)? She's looked almost as attractive as Bertha to me.  Also, Mr. Fane attended with his wife, why wasn't George there?

I don't think George was invited?  And he probably wouldn't have any interest anyways.  I don't think George particularly cares about making it into Old Money society... he said it this episode, he cares about making his wife happy and his wife wants to break into society, so he only cares in the sense that Bertha cares.  I think Mr. Fane was there simply because it was their box.  

I too am suspicious of how Raikes has come into society so quickly, to the point where he is being set up with an Old Money family's daughter.

On 2/15/2022 at 7:29 PM, BabyBella94 said:

I wonder if there is gonna be a storyline with Marian's mother?  

I'm pretty sure Marian's mother is dead?  That's why she had to move to New York to live with her aunts.  Her father died and she had no one left and didn't have a place to stay.

[Carolina Girl]

32 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

The guy was stupid enough to send a letter to the Russells' house and Bertha read it.

GMTA - that was, word for word, my "thought" remark to that question.

[Tango64]

3 hours ago, izabella said:

Raikes said her father never owned the house - it was rented.

In that case, the question of it it being "stolen" is moot. Thanks for the info.

[FrankOFoley]

Quick question. Did women of that era really drag the hems of their dresses (and trains) on the ground? Bertha must have the cleanest floors in town.

[chitowngirl]

8 minutes ago, FrankOFoley said:

Quick question. Did women of that era really drag the hems of their dresses (and trains) on the ground? Bertha must have the cleanest floors in town.

The ruffle on the bottom is detachable, so that’s what gets cleaned more often than the whole dress. The same for men’s shirts-the collar detaches.

[caitmcg]

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

I don't think George was invited?  

He wasn’t, Aurora Fane invited Bertha to join them in their box as part of the directive to extend an olive branch/help her start to break in to society.

[BabyBella94]

17 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Even "society lady" can have sensitive matters she wants to negotiate with a lawyer in private. How can she do that if she can't be alone in his office? Besides, already in the pilot Marian and Mr Raikes were alone in his office.

Does anyone know about the American law in 1880ies? What were the legal rights of the women in 1880is (unmarried, married, widows)? Could she marry whom she pleased and at which age? Had she a right to with her wages and fortune what she wanted? What were conditions of divorce? Could she get the custody of her children after divorce or was the father always their sole guardian? 

She didn't want to go into the office he kind of kept on asking her until she felt like she should. She even says they shouldn't be in the office alone. In the pilot it was a different situation and different scenario.  He might not have taken her money but he is somewhat dishonest in his courting ways, he knows better. 

3 hours ago, blackwing said:

I'm pretty sure Marian's mother is dead?  That's why she had to move to New York to live with her aunts.  Her father died and she had no one left and didn't have a place to stay.

She could've just left her daughter and become a "fallen woman" that's a more interesting trope than the whole "angelic mother dies in childbirth" or something else. 

[JasonCC]

It just occurred to me Bertha might have trouble hiring a new Governess and might just want to hurry up and get Gladys out. Any applicant is going to be "....how old is she?" and not particularly want such a brief job.

Can they give her a ladies' maid before she comes out? 

As I've said before I think Bertha Russell shaves a year or two off Gladys age.'
 

[Athena5217]

9 hours ago, sempervivum said:

Re. Raikes at the opera: am I the only one who was wondering about the cutesy reaction of Mrs. Schermerhorn, imploring him to return to her box (so to speak)? She's looked almost as attractive as Bertha to me.  Also, Mr. Fane attended with his wife, why wasn't George there?

I think the box seats 4 so if Marian had already been invited, there was only seat left in the box. I suspect George wouldn’t have wanted to go anyway.

[AntFTW]

41 minutes ago, Athena5217 said:

I suspect George wouldn’t have wanted to go anyway.

I agree. It was really for Bertha to transition her into society anyway. George put the Fanes in play for that purpose, to help Bertha.

[Roseanna]

9 hours ago, BabyBella94 said:

He might not have taken her money but he is somewhat dishonest in his courting ways, he knows better. 

These kind of rules suit to men who have inherited their wealth and position. If Mr Raikes had acted like that, he would still be a country lawyer. 

Having just read a biography about a man who made a successful career in the export industry between the World Wars, I see that Mr Raikes has the same kind of character, ambition and winning principle: "wait for the right moment and then act swiftly". That kind of man is able "to jump on the back of a galloping horse".

[Roseanna]

19 hours ago, izabella said:

In any case, I don't think it would matter to Agnes, Ada, or Old NY.  Raikes was beneath Marian in terms of social class, and as Ada told her, "marrying beneath you is no guarantee of happiness," or something like that.  No matter how he courted Marian, he'd still be beneath her and therefore undesirable.

Yes, it's the way Agnes thinks but I find it stupid. A poor man who is talented, ambitious and industrious is a far better match than a man who has inherited his wealth and position and thinks that he doesn't need to do anything himself. If a upper class family is wise, it gets at least some new members from the rising class.   

[Pestilentia]

 

The conversation between Marian and Raikes in the first episode concerned railroad stock that Marian knew her father owned. Raikes explained to her that stock rose and fell in value almost daily and that all that her father owned was now worthless. Seems like stealing those/lying about it would have been the 'easiest' way to defraud Marian if this is in fact where they are going.   

I don't know if stocks of that day were bearer bonds where anyone could redeem then (I remember that from Bonanza, lol) or would require a legal transfer of ownership but as an attorney Raikes could easily manage to make off with the money either way.

 

[chediavolo]

On 2/14/2022 at 10:01 PM, AntFTW said:

Peggy: What are you doing here?

Marian: I thought I'd surprise you.

Peggy: You succeeded!

I thought the entire family was incredibly rude to Marion, up until  the time where she took out the shoes!

Edited February 18, 2022 by chediavolo

[Roseanna]

28 minutes ago, Pestilentia said:

 

The conversation between Marian and Raikes in the first episode concerned railroad stock that Marian knew her father owned. Raikes explained to her that stock rose and fell in value almost daily and that all that her father owned was now worthless. Seems like stealing those/lying about it would have been the 'easiest' way to defraud Marian if this is in fact where they are going.   

I don't know if stocks of that day were bearer bonds where anyone could redeem then (I remember that from Bonanza, lol) or would require a legal transfer of ownership but as an attorney Raikes could easily manage to make off with the money either way.

 

Actually, we have been seen with Mr Russell and aldermen's schme that the value of railway stocks can go up and down. And I don't trust at all Marian's father's business sense.

There are three possibilities: If Raikes has stolen Marian's heritage, he has all the reason to stay far from her. If Marian has even a small fortune, he would have a reason to court her for money. If she is penniless, he is courting her because he loves her. 

[Affogato]

1 hour ago, Roseanna said:

Actually, we have been seen with Mr Russell and aldermen's schme that the value of railway stocks can go up and down. And I don't trust at all Marian's father's business sense.

There are three possibilities: If Raikes has stolen Marian's heritage, he has all the reason to stay far from her. If Marian has even a small fortune, he would have a reason to court her for money. If she is penniless, he is courting her because he loves her. 

That’s the puzzler. Of course perhaps he is grnerally a thief and a swindler who happens to love her. That sounds like Marian’s luck. 

[izabella]

It's interesting that people are suspicious of Raikes, when he has seemed to be the most open and forward about his desires, motivations and plans.  Everyone else has been shown to be scheming, plotting, and manipulating while Raikes has spelled out exactly what he wants to the people he wants it from.   Hey, Marion, I want to stay in touch while you're in NY!  Hey Marian, I want to move to NY and see how the other half lives!  Hey Marion, you're the best thing since sliced bread, marry me!  Ok, well, let me know if you change your mind, cuz I'm waiting for you.  Hell yeah, my college friend invited me to the opera box, and I'm enjoying the hell out of it!

It's even more interesting that his being open and forward is exactly what is making people suspicious.  We are not that different from Agnes!

[Roseanna]

13 minutes ago, Affogato said:

That’s the puzzler. Of course perhaps he is grnerally a thief and a swindler who happens to love her. That sounds like Marian’s luck. 

That sounds like Agatha Christie. In her detective stories there was no guarantee that the lovers get each other for one of them could be a murdered.

Instead, Fellowes's plots are never that complicated. In Downton Abbey, only a maid was betrayed by a gentleman and left alone to care for her baby whereas Lady Edith's married lover would have got divorce in Germany and married her, if the Nazis hadn't murdered him.