S01.E04: A Long Ladder

[Emmybean]

Re Mr Raikes, he probably is an adventurer, but I find his rise less surprising. He’s handsome, personable, and probably a quick learner. He has a very influential friend in his profession. I suspect Raikes will be an associate at Cadwalader or Cravath in short order. It’ll be easier for Raikes to fit in than Bertha Russell.

I’d liked Bannister but he was a total dick to the Russell household.

Oscar the adventurer:  I suspect the van Rhijn fortune is actually pretty modest and Oscar has acquired Astor level tastes.

Dear Mr Russell, you’re the best of the Manhattan lot but Turner needs to go. 

I feel like we’re seeing the first draft, that nothing about the show or its characters has been fleshed out. I don’t understand how that happens on a prestige show like this.

 

Marian’s naïveté makes little sense. Unless she was kept in a closet, she would have known that a woman with Mrs Chamberlain’s background would be anathema to a well brought up young woman, even in Doylestown.
 

 

Edited February 16, 2022 by Emmybean

[quangtran]

7 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Lots of speculation about this, but if you watch those "Inside the Episode" shorts, the actor playing Raikes seems to think his character is genuine. Which leads me to believe the writing is just kind of lazy in regards to this storyline.

7 hours ago, dmc said:

Or Fellows hasn’t told him he’s shady yet.

I haven't heard the podcast yet, but based on all every actor interview I've read, all of them were taught to treat their character as the hero in their own story despite whatever terrible things the writers make them do, so Thomas Cocquerel playing him from a sympathetic angle isn't indicative of Raikes not being a con artist.

[Darian]

I was so glad that George tossed the maid out of his bed, and I can't remember (or find) the smart person who said he was possibly being kind to Bertha, who would be hurt if she does like the maid or just by the betrayal) but I think her still being in the household is a mistake. I think she will undermine Bertha every chance she gets and she showed she's canny when she said all she would care about is him, which reminded of when George said something about wishing his love were enough and Bertha said it was almost enough. I don't know if that seed will grow but it was smart, albeit nasty, one to plant.     

[MissLucas]

Me: I don't think I'll ever loathe* a Fellowes character more than Lady Mary.

Fellowes: Hold my quill...

Addendum for Lady Mary fans: love to loathe. She had a functioning brain which is more than can be said of Marian.

Also me during the first 5 minutes of this episode: Damn, Peggy looks great - her wardrobe is way superior to Marian's.

Marian: I guess Peggy and her family need some old banged up and mangled shoes.

*headdesk*

Alternative title for this episode: Clueless Women or nearly one hour of Fremdschämen

Marian scored a new record for how many times I wanted to whack a character on my screen during one episode: Not noticing what was going on in Bloomingdale's with Peggy. Asking Mrs Chamberlain how she had met her husband. The carpet bag (props to the props department I guess) desaster. 

Also whack-worthy: Miss Turner. You're not a femme fatale but an idiot and lucky you still have your job (among other things). I wonder if she makes her next move on Larry, slightly better chances at succeeding but of course she's after the big fish. Anyway she'll make more trouble.

Various notes:

Ada said Agnes wants Marian to marry into the 400 families. How's that supposed to work since Marian has no money and the personality of a turnip?

Agnes scolding Ada for reading German books because Ada had used the term 'self-destructive' and then telling her to stick to Louisa May Alcott was hilarious.

Mr Raikes starts to look like Seth McFarlane. 

Bertha's red opera gown was fantastic as was the camera work showing it sweeping down that staircase and the matching cape. I also liked the gown with the swallow print.

I enjoyed Bannister's tour of the Russell mansion. I'm sure Agnes would have approved LOL!

Hi, Adelheid - you look like fun. I'm rooting for you to become Gladys' Anna (preferably without a murderous husband).

 

 

Edited February 16, 2022 by MissLucas

[Snazzy Daisy]

45 minutes ago, rollacoaster said:

Since we got nearly full frontal female nudity, can we get something close to that from a hot male?

Asking for myself. 😉

Which one - Mr George Russell or Mr T Thomas Fortune? 😅

[BabyBella94]

6 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

Me: I don't think I'll ever loathe* a Fellowes character more than Lady Mary.

Fellowes: Hold my quill...

Addendum for Lady Mary fans: love to loathe. She had a functioning brain which is more than can be said of Marian.

Also me during the first 5 minutes of this episode: Damn, Peggy looks great - her wardrobe is way superior to Marian's.

Marian: I guess Peggy and her family need some old banged up and mangled shoes.

*headdesk*

Alternative titles for this episode: Clueless Women or nearly one hour of Fremdschämen

Marian scored a new record for how many times I wanted to whack a character on my screen during one episode: Not noticing what was going on in Bloomingdale's with Peggy. Asking Mrs Chamberlain how she had met her husband. The carpet bag (props to the props department I guess) desaster. 

Also whack-worthy: Miss Turner. You're not a femme fatale but an idiot and lucky you still have your job (among other things). I wonder if she makes her next move on Larry, slightly better chances at succeeding but of course she's after the big fish. Anyway she'll make more trouble.

Various notes:

Ada said Agnes wants Marian to marry into the 400 families. How's that supposed to work since Marian has no money and the personality of a turnip?

Agnes scolding Ada for reading German books because Ada had used the term 'self-destructive' and then telling her to stick to Louisa May Alcott was hilarious.

Mr Raikes starts to look like Seth McFarlane. 

Bertha's red opera gown was fantastic as was the camera work showing it sweeping down that staircase and the matching cape. I also liked the gown with the swallow print.

I enjoyed Bannister's tour of the Russell mansion. I'm sure Agnes would have approved LOL!

Hi, Adelheid - you look like fun. I'm rooting for you to become Gladys' Anna (preferably without a murderous husband).

 

 

Marian is still part of an old money family. She's a Brook/Livingston.

[CattyK]

7 minutes ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

Which one - Mr George Russell or Mr T Thomas Fortune? 😅

Mmmm….Both, please!  😉

[AZChristian]

12 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

Fremdschämen

One of my favorite words EVER.

[AntFTW]

1 hour ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

Stop throwing shades y’all… 😂

 

[BabyBella94]

I wonder if there is gonna be a storyline with Marian's mother?  

[rollacoaster]

35 minutes ago, CattyK said:

44 minutes ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

Which one - Mr George Russell or Mr T Thomas Fortune? 😅

Expand  

Mmmm….Both, please!  😉

 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2022 by rollacoaster

[eejm]

1 hour ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

Which one - Mr George Russell or Mr T Thomas Fortune? 😅

That’s why I recognized Fortune - he was in the Halston miniseries!  He played one of Halston’s early partners.  He looked super familiar but I couldn’t place him in the 1880s garb.

 

As others have said I think George didn’t fire Turner because that would have looked much worse than keeping her with a major warning.  Besides, didn’t George tell the alderman something along the lines of, “I only give a second chance once,” or something like that?  Maybe that’s what we’re seeing here.

Edited February 16, 2022 by eejm

[HappyHanna]

4 hours ago, SailorGirl said:

She told the Aunts she was going to Brooklyn because she knew a friend would need cheering up.

I probably need to rewatch, because I find this perplexing and hope that there was more explanation than this (which is what I remember).  Clearly Marian is an unobservant dimwit, but even she should have noticed that this is the only time Peggy has ever gone to her parents' home. And this visit is just a short one (dinner for her mother's birthday, so a few hours at the most?). So what cheering up does she think Peggy could possibly need in an afternoon?  

[rollacoaster]

46 minutes ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

1 hour ago, rollacoaster said:

Since we got nearly full frontal female nudity, can we get something close to that from a hot male?

Asking for myself. 😉

Which one - Mr George Russell or Mr T Thomas Fortune? 😅

 

47 minutes ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

 

39 minutes ago, CattyK said:

Mmmm….Both, please!  😉

 

[Melina22]

58 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

I enjoyed Bannister's tour of the Russell mansion. I'm sure Agnes would have approved LOL!

I love Bannister. I have such fond memories of him in Hitchhikers and he's a delight here. And he doesn't have to spend this series in his bathrobe! 

"I haven't been thrilled since 1865." 🤣🤣🤣🤣Agnes is finally starting to grow on me. 

[izabella]

1 minute ago, HappyHanna said:

I probably need to rewatch, because I find this perplexing and hope that there was more explanation than this (which is what I remember).  Clearly Marian is an unobservant dimwit, but even she should have noticed that this is the only time Peggy has ever gone to her parents' home. And this visit is just a short one (dinner for her mother's birthday, so a few hours at the most?). So what cheering up does she think Peggy could possibly need in an afternoon?  

I was shocked Agnes didn't immediately ask who exactly Marian knows in Brooklyn and how she could possibly know her well enough to visit. 

Also, Agnes knew Peggy had gone home to Brooklyn that day, so who would be accompanying Marian on this carriage/docks/ferry trip to Brooklyn?  She didn't want her going out alone in the streets around their house, so I'm mystified why she didn't question Marian at all.

 

[Melina22]

51 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

1 hour ago, MissLucas said:

Fremdschämen

One of my favorite words EVER.

It's a new one for me and I love it. I feel it all the time. 

[mojito]

3 hours ago, SailorGirl said:

So her intent was sincere; her execution, however, was that of a naive, sheltered wealthy white woman making assumptions about Peggy's familial and financial situation based solely on her being black.

The way Agnes talked about Brooklyn....Marian probably expected to find sidewalk-less streets with chickens walking around. I think Marian thought she was "rescuing" Peggy from her family, giving her a chance to get away if she needed to.

For a moment, I thought she'd packed a bag and was expecting to spend the night! Now, that would've been awkward. 

As for Peggy going alone to Brooklyn...Well, nobody of note would see her there, so who cares?

2 hours ago, CarpeFelis said:

As she was leaving his bedroom and looking around, it made me wonder if she’s going to try to make people think she really is sleeping with him.

I thought she was going to pull something to get Bertha's attention but then she'd be in for an ass-whoopin' and I don't think she's that dumb.

My best chuckle came from Ada in the beginning when she declared that she had a hundred things to do. I'd been thinking, while watching this show, that someone who spent the day doing crosswords, watching The View and the evening news, and walking the dog to the park would still have a more productive day than any of those rich women.

"To spend time in her [Chamberlain] company is to be contaminated." What a god-awful piece of dialog.

[dmc]

1 hour ago, Darian said:

I was so glad that George tossed the maid out of his bed, and I can't remember (or find) the smart person who said he was possibly being kind to Bertha, who would be hurt if she does like the maid or just by the betrayal) but I think her still being in the household is a mistake. I think she will undermine Bertha every chance she gets and she showed she's canny when she said all she would care about is him, which reminded of when George said something about wishing his love were enough and Bertha said it was almost enough. I don't know if that seed will grow but it was smart, albeit nasty, one to plant.     

I said this.  I think he really thinks his wife likes her.  Granted, I think his wife would change her opinion if she knew what happened.  I also don't think men necessarily think like women do.  He told her no forcefully, he thinks that's the end of the matter.  I don't think it is unless the writing is REAL sloppy.  

I also agree that Bertha will go off the deep end with the society deal and he will grow unhappy and have a weak moment.  I don't know he will sleep with her but maybe consider it.  IE Lord Grantham and that maid war widow

 

Edited February 16, 2022 by dmc

[Snazzy Daisy]

15 minutes ago, eejm said:

As others have said I think George didn’t fire Turner because that would have looked much worse than keeping her with a major warning.  Besides, didn’t George tell the alderman something along the lines of, “I only give a second chance once,” or something like that?  Maybe that’s what we’re seeing her.

Am hoping for more drama between Mr Church and Ms Turner re her erotically charged behaviour… 😂

[dmc]

20 minutes ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

Am hoping for more drama between Mr Church and Ms Turner re her erotically charged behaviour… 😂

I am hoping the servants get better written so we are more invested in their nonsense.  Ms. Turner is a caricature.  There is no earthly reason why she thinks this would work.  Her motivations are muddy at best.  Then the guy in charge who keeps passive aggressively correcting her is no Carson.  If this guy is running the house, why is he letting the servants act like this

 

Also they barely look for Ada's dog

Edited February 16, 2022 by dmc

[sistermagpie]

32 minutes ago, izabella said:

I was shocked Agnes didn't immediately ask who exactly Marian knows in Brooklyn and how she could possibly know her well enough to visit. 

Also, Agnes knew Peggy had gone home to Brooklyn that day, so who would be accompanying Marian on this carriage/docks/ferry trip to Brooklyn?  She didn't want her going out alone in the streets around their house, so I'm mystified why she didn't question Marian at all.

 

Yes, did she forget she doesn't like Marian going out alone? She also went to Chamberlain's alone.

It probably took Marian longer to get to Peggy's house than the length of time Peggy even planned to be there.

[JenE4]

It’s the little insults that really amuse me—the consecrated grave, the shouldn’t shop with me in public, Mrs Chamberlain sending a carved box filled with her scandalous aura, the old shoes of prejudicial assumption (though that one wasn’t funny, unlike) the dog exchange upon which one’s entree into society hinges!

But my favorite part was the Old Money butler going over there and giving the backhanded compliments to the New Money chef and butler! Oooh! Burn! (And, I knew those 5 glasses in a line last week were distracting. They should have been in a square, apparently.) That guy really got into the other butler’s head!

I also liked the five footmen serving the four Russells eating dinner, and as soon as Bertha said they were done, the footman rushed over and pulled out Larry’s chair while he was putting a fork in his mouth. Lol.

Discussion of literal trainwrecks right before Bertha tells George about how she’s going to take on Ann Morris to get on the board of the Red Cross. Foreshadowing for the figurative train wreck to come? 

Uh, George, something tells me Bertha shouldn’t trust this naked ladies maid. I doubt she’ll have Bertha’s best interests at heart.

[Sakura12]

I don't see how Turner is helping Bertha since she doesn't seem all that observant since George doesn't seem at all lonely and he likes his wife's ambition. I still think she's basing everything off her old money knowledge. Most of those men may have slept with her. George and Bertha came up from nothing together. He knows she's not with him for his money. While someone like the maid is trying to get with him for his money. And since he got Mrs Fane to be her guide into society, the maid is not needed. He should've accused her of stealing or something and had Bertha fire her. She's going to be trouble now that she's been rejected. 

And then there's Marion, wow. What about Peggy screamed she needed used shoes? You see her everyday, she dresses better then you do. Agnes is not buying her clothes like she does for you. Why would she think Peggy needs castoffs? I wish Peggy had said I work for your Aunt, she let's you live there. 

As for Peggy's father, he was a former slave that made it into his own house with servants. Of course he's not going to understand why his daughter is choosing to live in servants quarters. Not realizing she's ambitious like him and wants to make a name for herself like he did. 

 

[Atlanta]

Who got Pretty Woman vibes from Bertha in her red gown, white opera gloves, and fancy necklace when heading to the theater?

[dmc]

10 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

I don't see how Turner is helping Bertha since she doesn't seem all that observant since George doesn't seem at all lonely and he likes his wife's ambition. I still think she's basing everything off her old money knowledge. Most of those men may have slept with her. George and Bertha came up from nothing together. He knows she's not with him for his money. While someone like the maid is trying to get with him for his money. And since he got Mrs Fane to be her guide into society, the maid is not needed. He should've accused her of stealing or something and had Bertha fire her. She's going to be trouble now that she's been rejected. 

And then there's Marion, wow. What about Peggy screamed she needed used shoes? You see her everyday, she dresses better then you do. Agnes is not buying her clothes like she does for you. Why would she think Peggy needs castoffs? I wish Peggy had said I work for your Aunt, she let's you live there. 

As for Peggy's father, he was a former slave that made it into his own house with servants. Of course he's not going to understand why his daughter is choosing to live in servants quarters. Not realizing she's ambitious like him and wants to make a name for herself like he did. 

 

I like he likes his wife the way she is and he likes their life the way it is.  That doesn't mean that when she's more invested in society because she gains more acceptance and changes as a result...he will still be into it.  I have seen a lot of marriages suffer when one party becomes obsessed with something.  I cannot tell you have many people I know whose marriage broke up after long fertility struggles.  The husband was supportive at first but when it turned into trying everything to have a baby and that took over their lives he was less and less so.  

 

Edited February 16, 2022 by dmc

[TV Anonymous]

One thing I would like to add. I do not quite understand the disdain that Mrs. Van Rhijn had towards Mr. Raikes. Yes, he did not come from money but he was a UPenn-graduate lawyer FFS. Now that he took practice in New York, his future was brilliant. Besides, it was not like Miss Brook owned or achieved anything on her own.

[Atlanta]

3 minutes ago, TV Anonymous said:

One thing I would like to add. I do not quite understand the disdain that Mrs. Van Rhijn had towards Mr. Raikes. Yes, he did not come from money but he was a UPenn-graduate lawyer FFS. Now that he took practice in New York, his future was brilliant. Besides, it was not like Miss Brook owned or achieved anything on her own.

Amen. He's an Ivy League law grad which means he's not poor and has connections. It seems that Marion and her family aren't rolling in the dough.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

2 hours ago, Darian said:

I was so glad that George tossed the maid out of his bed, and I can't remember (or find) the smart person who said he was possibly being kind to Bertha, who would be hurt if she does like the maid or just by the betrayal)

That's what George said.

3 hours ago, Emmybean said:

Oscar the adventurer:  I suspect the van Rhijn fortune is actually pretty modest and Oscar has acquired Astor level tastes.

Marian’s naïveté makes little sense. Unless she was kept in a closet, she would have known that a woman with Mrs Chamberlain’s background would be anathema to a well brought up young woman, even in Doylestown.

Oscar's exact words were "I need more money".

Marian didn't learn Mrs Chamberlain's background until after she visited her.

52 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

And then there's Marion, wow. What about Peggy screamed she needed used shoes? You see her everyday, she dresses better then you do. Agnes is not buying her clothes like she does for you. Why would she think Peggy needs castoffs? I wish Peggy had said I work for your Aunt, she let's you live there.

The shoes were for Peggy's family rather than Peggy herself (or she could have given them to her at home), but she should have known better than to assume Peggy came from poverty.

[BabyBella94]

11 minutes ago, TV Anonymous said:

One thing I would like to add. I do not quite understand the disdain that Mrs. Van Rhijn had towards Mr. Raikes. Yes, he did not come from money but he was a UPenn-graduate lawyer FFS. Now that he took practice in New York, his future was brilliant. Besides, it was not like Miss Brook owned or achieved anything on her own.

Because he's not of old money. He might have good social connections and a good job but that's not good enough for Agnes. 

[MissLucas]

1 hour ago, JenE4 said:

But my favorite part was the Old Money butler going over there and giving the backhanded compliments to the New Money chef and butler! Oooh! Burn! (And, I knew those 5 glasses in a line last week were distracting. They should have been in a square, apparently.) That guy really got into the other butler’s head!

I will so watch out for those glasses come next dinner chez Russells!

1 hour ago, Atlanta said:

Who got Pretty Woman vibes from Bertha in her red gown, white opera gloves, and fancy necklace when heading to the theater?

Thanks! There was a sense of familiarity but may lazy brain could not come up with the correct connection.

[mojito]

1 hour ago, Atlanta said:

Who got Pretty Woman vibes from Bertha in her red gown, white opera gloves, and fancy necklace when heading to the theater?

I got it when we learned that George got Fane to have his wife to include Bertha in societal activities. I recall the boutique scene, I think, when Gere told the lady in the store that they'd better do some serious sucking up to Roberts.

Larry seems like he's not yet interested in girls. He seems very boyish still.

Edited February 16, 2022 by mojito

[izabella]

4 hours ago, Emmybean said:

I feel like we’re seeing the first draft, that nothing about the show or its characters has been fleshed out. I don’t understand how that happens on a prestige show like this.

That's how it feels to me, too.   The Turner story line is the most egregious example of the unfinished writing.

I liked that we learned a little more about Ada.  It sounds like she had a first love, but her father shut that down for reasons.  I wasn't entirely sure why Ada became so upset when Marian asked her if she ever wondered about the road not taken.

 

[Hiyo]

Quote

This he can’t accept or understand why she wants to make it as a writer when she could concentrate on the pharmacy

Were pharmacy's really that lucrative back then? I mean, Peggy's family is living quite well (and I guess Brooklyn was much cheaper to live in and build homes in than Manhattan back then), and good for them, so I guess they were a good way to make money?

Quote

I also agree that Bertha will go off the deep end with the society deal and he will grow unhappy and have a weak moment.  I don't know he will sleep with her but maybe consider it

If he does, it will probably lead to Bastard Baby Scandel! which you know will be revealed right before Bertha is about to be accepted into high society and maybe derail her chances...until the next season, anyway.

[Melina22]

3 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

As for Peggy's father, he was a former slave that made it into his own house with servants. Of course he's not going to understand why his daughter is choosing to live in servants quarters. Not realizing she's ambitious like him and wants to make a name for herself like he did. 

 

Now there's a show I'd love to watch. From slavery to wealth in one lifetime! How could that not be a fascinating series? 

[sharifa70]

On 2/14/2022 at 7:38 PM, DesiJF said:

Who is Mr. Russell' valet stalking?  Man, creepy much?

I mean, he is an Observer.

[Melina22]

22 minutes ago, sharifa70 said:

I mean, he is an Observer.

Just like the butler will always be Arthur Dent to me, the valet will always be an Observer from Fringe. Maybe it would help if he had hair? 

[Roseanna]

14 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:

 

1. What was so wrong with hot soup for lunch and trifle for dessert? 

Nothing wrong in itself.  American Old Money simply had their food habits that differed from French ones.

Edited February 16, 2022 by Roseanna
correcting one letter

[caitmcg]

2 hours ago, izabella said:

I liked that we learned a little more about Ada.  It sounds like she had a first love, but her father shut that down for reasons.  I wasn't entirely sure why Ada became so upset when Marian asked her if she ever wondered about the road not taken.

That was the man who sought her out at Clara Barton’s talk and who Agnes sent away with the news that Ada has no money in the previous episode. Agnes said her father refused him back in the day because he’d been heard saying he was marrying for money. (Ironically, just what Agnes’s own son is aiming to do, and that George Russell pegged him for.)

[Roseanna]

Louisa Jacobson has told (in her interview to Insider) that integral scenes about Tom and Marian's relationship were cut out. So it isn't Fellowes' fault that Raikes' character has been misunderstood.

It wasn't only that Raikes refused to get a fee about Marian's heritage, but after she had to sell all their goods, he wanted her to have at least the most precious things. I don't think anybody can deny that it was a nice act.

Of course people do "nice" things also from bad motives. But I think Raikes' motive was simply to help the woman he was falling hard. 

If the Crawleys didn't twice know that a distant relative was the heir to the title and fortune, Raikes could hardly know that Marian's Aunt Agnes was Old Money. 

All in all, I don't believe at all that Raikes is an adventurer but is simply a man who, besides having a fine university decree and good connections, knows what he wants and how he will get it. 

 

 

[Roseanna]

2 hours ago, caitmcg said:

That was the man who sought her out at Clara Barton’s talk and who Agnes sent away with the news that Ada has no money in the previous episode. Agnes said her father refused him back in the day because he’d been heard saying he was marrying for money. (Ironically, just what Agnes’s own son is aiming to do, and that George Russell pegged him for.)

It's quite natural that a mother is blind about his son.

Also, like Mr Knight showed in Jane Austen's Emma when he said that Mr Elton isn't going to marry Harriet who had no fortune nor connections, men tend to have better judgment about other men because they can observe them in situations where there are no women present.

Because Agnes had got information about Ada's admirer from her father, I don't trust her judgment about Raikes. 

In addition, Agnes seems to love to utter such biting one-liners as Dowager Countess and we saw that the latter didn't always act according to them. I am sure that there will be situation when Agnes have to get to know the Russells.

But Bertha made an elemental mistake when she tried to force it with Ada's dog. By letting a servant to return it immediately, she had shown kindness, indeed ordinary politeness instead. Now she showed that she always had mercenary motives. 

[Haleth]

I watched the opening credits for the first time in this episode.  In the montage there is a shot of a beautiful red gown on the stairs and I was thinking, wow, I hope we get to see this gown!  Lo and behold, we did!  (More than Pretty Woman it reminded me of Scarlett's gown at Ashley's birthday party.)

7 hours ago, MissLucas said:

I will so watch out for those glasses come next dinner chez Russells!

But only if that's how Mrs Astor arranges them.

I'm on the bandwagon that Raikes is ambitious but not a scoundrel.  He knows Marian has no money and no claim to the Van Rijn money so his interest in her isn't financial.  He'd be a perfectly good match for a penniless young woman.  I don't know how Agnes thinks she can find an Old Money suitor who would be interested in a woman with no money, regardless of her lineage.

Turner.  If her scheme is to get money, she'll cause trouble.  If her scheme is to get the man, any trouble she causes will make him even more angry at her.

[AntFTW]

9 hours ago, dmc said:

I like he likes his wife the way she is and he likes their life the way it is.  That doesn't mean that when she's more invested in society because she gains more acceptance and changes as a result...he will still be into it. 

I think that's right. As Ms. Turner was telling George that Bertha's society ambitions are eclipsing her love for George, I thought that couldn't have been more wrong.

With the Russells, they are using every opportunity for both of their benefits. That was highlighted really well in this episode. George is using his leverage over Charles Fane to help Bertha get into society. Bertha is using society to help the public image of George's company by suggesting the company take up the cause of the Red Cross. It was Bertha's society ambitions and knowing Anne Morris that helped George get to Mr. Morris.

It's not a mostly or wholly one-sided endeavor. George's business end is helping Bertha and Bertha's society end is helping George.

Edited February 16, 2022 by AntFTW

[Roseanna]

29 minutes ago, Haleth said:

Turner.  If her scheme is to get money, she'll cause trouble.  If her scheme is to get the man, any trouble she causes will make him even more angry at her.

Wouldn't Larry Russell gave been a better, and at least easier, catch, although a better tactics would have been to let him imagine that he seduced her? Afterwards, his father would no doubt have paid all that was needed to get his son out of trouble.

[AntFTW]

2 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

Wouldn't Larry Russell gave been a better, and at least easier, catch, although a better tactics would have been to let him imagine that he seduced her? Afterwards, his father would no doubt have paid all that was needed to get his son out of trouble.

Bertha would go nuts!

[Roseanna]

3 hours ago, Haleth said:

I'm on the bandwagon that Raikes is ambitious but not a scoundrel.  He knows Marian has no money and no claim to the Van Rijn money so his interest in her isn't financial.  He'd be a perfectly good match for a penniless young woman.  I don't know how Agnes thinks she can find an Old Money suitor who would be interested in a woman with no money, regardless of her lineage.

Because Agnes is a snob she just can't value Marian's chances to marry well realistically.

The list of characters reveals that Mrs Fane is Agnes' niece of marriage and helps Marian break into society. That would be a clever move from Agnes' part as she doesn't need to do anything herself, but she doesn't know Mrs Fane is also helping Mrs Russell. 

Edited February 16, 2022 by Roseanna
adding a letter

[Melina22]

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

I watched the opening credits for the first time in this episode.  

The Gilded Age is on the very short list of shows whose credits I watch every time just because they're beautiful. I never get tired of the last half of the credits showing the gorgeous marble show title in creation. 

[ahpny]

On 2/14/2022 at 10:45 PM, sistermagpie said:

George really should have tossed that maid out. It's not protecting your wife to have her hanging around.

George has already been shown to be both bright and realistic. But it was neither to "pretend" this never happened. Yeah, like that's going to end well. In fact, his "this never happened" stance was both stupid and unrealistic, and out of character as coming from George. Maybe he's a closet narcissist who sees women throwing themselves at him all the time because he just that irresistible? Maybe he routinely rebuffs them all with little thought because such is the lot of babe magnets like him. Regardless, it just seemed off.  

[Hiyo]

Quote

Maybe he routinely rebuffs them all with little thought because such is the lot of babe magnets wallets like him.

Fixed it for you.

[MissLucas]

I agree that Turner keeping her job after that stunt is unrealistic and George's lines sounded OOC. The only reason she's still around is plot armor.