S19.E12: The Model as Muse

[carrps]

Doesn't look plus size to me. Looks "normal."

[rhygirl720]

5 minutes ago, carrps said:

Doesn't look plus size to me. Looks "normal."

she is a size 12. but considered plus size and she definitely has curves.

[carrps]

Isn't the average American woman now a size 14? I guess Vogue can consider any size they like as "plus." And she has boobs, but not much hips. I'd imagine seeing her IRL and considering her on the thin side since the camera supposedly adds pounds. And I'd love to be as tall as she is. I can starve myself thin, but I can't add inches to my height.

[staphdude]

On 1/21/2022 at 3:00 PM, Leeds said:

I thought the anorexic look had "left the building", but apparently not.

And what happened to models  "children are seen and not heard"

Other than Nina she has more experience in the industry than most on that show so her input was more than relevant

12 hours ago, Vermicious Knid said:

No breasts or hips. Nothing like those pesky body parts on actual women that can get in the way.

So just like most working models…there is a reason she is so successful. Body type and modelling talent.

 

[BlackberryJam]

I’m not into judging any woman based on her body, be it large or small. It’s easier to show off clothes on bodies when the bodies are all the same, and there’s little to the body that will alter the line of the clothes, like a hanger. That has nothing to do with whether clothes will look good on other body shapes. 
 

Coco Rocha shows that modeling is more than walking down a runway without tripping. She knows her job is to show off the clothes or express the emotion and she nails it. She’s a woman who has been successful in a tough industry for almost 20 years. She speaks out about eating disorders, scouting models too young and she taught a class on the industry at Harvard. She also has three children. She happened to hit the genetic lottery which keeps her thin and she’s trained her body to move and express emotion. I see no reason to see her as less of a real woman because of that.

[Bluesky]

2 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

I’m not into judging any woman based on her body, be it large or small. It’s easier to show off clothes on bodies when the bodies are all the same, and there’s little to the body that will alter the line of the clothes, like a hanger. That has nothing to do with whether clothes will look good on other body shapes. 
 

Coco Rocha shows that modeling is more than walking down a runway without tripping. She knows her job is to show off the clothes or express the emotion and she nails it. She’s a woman who has been successful in a tough industry for almost 20 years. She speaks out about eating disorders, scouting models too young and she taught a class on the industry at Harvard. She also has three children. She happened to hit the genetic lottery which keeps her thin and she’s trained her body to move and express emotion. I see no reason to see her as less of a real woman because of that.

She also showed that the models they typically use are just not that good.  She made every dress look like a work of art.  Usually there’s one that is not flattering.  I think if Chasity had one of the plus size models in that Disney dress there’s no way they could ignore how bad it was.  

[IdEatThat]

I absolutely loved this challenge.  I hope we see this every season.  It leveled the playing field and really showed the strengths and weaknesses of each designer.  I loved seeing the editorial photos.   It reminded me of the best days of America’s Next Top Model.   I always loved seeing the photos.  I used to buy Vanity Fair back in the dark ages when people bought physical magazines just to look at all the pictures, including the ads.   This was my favorite episode of the season.  Well done Project Runway.

[lovinbob]

Did Chasity and Coco think they were coming up with some original insight about villains just being misunderstood? It’s basically the plot of Wicked as well as the Descendants movies. 

[theatremouse]

I don't think they thought they invented the concept. I thought it was more like Chasity is really really really really into it.

[Fellaway]

11 hours ago, sharkerbaby said:

They also touched on the freezing out of Shantal.  In fact, Bones was rather snarky about her and definitely threw some shade her way.  (I would choose much stronger words if I were not commenting on a public forum).  I will say that pretty much every designer has named Shantal as the winner

Is that the sole basis for their attitudes? Because, wow, nasty and petty and immature.

Of this lot, I do think Shantall is the best and should win, but, overall, in most any other season, I'd put her middle of the pack. It's just been that mediocre of a season.

[HurricaneVal]

5 hours ago, IdEatThat said:

It reminded me of the best days of America’s Next Top Model.   I always loved seeing the photos.

This.  I could not stop thinking exactly this.

[Glade]

I preferred Corals photo, which was more bold and eye-catching than Shantalls, and I also applaud the color choice.  I liked Kristinas design, Chastity's was a really boring costume: forgettable.  Bones produced a bad photo, and the hood on Coco was completely unnecessary, the flags weren't good either.  I'm sure he would have made a better final collection then Chasity, though.

[Vermicious Knid]

I probably should have used non-model or ordinary instead of actual. The average woman is said to be 5'4" and a size 14, so clothing shown on a professional model is generally not applicable in real life.

[Cheyanne11]

13 hours ago, lovinbob said:

Did Chasity and Coco think they were coming up with some original insight about villains just being misunderstood? It’s basically the plot of Wicked as well as the Descendants movies. 

 

11 hours ago, theatremouse said:

I don't think they thought they invented the concept. I thought it was more like Chasity is really really really really into it.

Oh, I definitely got the feeling Chasity thought she had this new insight into villains.  Her "I've always thought" had that "prepare to have  your minds blown by this idea" tone about it to me.

[Mahfouz]

I guess my anxiety about whether or not Bones would drip some armpit sweat on his or somebody else's design is moot now. 

Saying that, I appreciate how Bones went out. I feel as if I have the best idea of who Bones is as a person compared with the rest of the designers and I absolutely cannot fault him for taking control of the photo shoot. It's his design, his aesthetic, his vision, AND he has the experience of being a part of photo shoots AND, most importantly, the temerity to demand what he wants. Coco is ONLY a tool and, frankly, should keep her mouth shut about what Bones wants out of his design/photo. 

 

[sharkerbaby]

A tool that has a helluva lot more experience in the industry than he does.  If he has no interest in being successful in fashion and selling garments then sure, disregard others experience based advise, compose the photo however he wants and try to sell the prints.

For that matter, if your tool can't maneuver and move in your tornado inspired garment you're never going to see your vision in a photo either. 

Edited January 24, 2022 by sharkerbaby

[Mahfouz]

23 minutes ago, sharkerbaby said:

A tool that has a helluva lot more experience in the industry than he does.  If he has no interest in being successful in fashion and selling garments then sure, disregard others experience based advise, compose the photo however he wants and try to sell the prints.

For that matter, if your tool can't maneuver and move in your tornado inspired garment you're never going to see your vision in a photo either. 

I certainly don't think Bones did himself any favors with his design.

However, if the model did not appreciate his feedback she should have modeled better. But clearly there was something off between what Bones wanted to see and what the infallible one was doing. It wasn't Coco's design, nor would she suffer any consequences for any of her choices. This was all on Bones. If I were on a show like this and it was my time to be auf'd I would prefer to have it come down to my choices. 

 

[IslandGirl]

Coco looked horrified when Bones said something like, “I want to trap your legs!” I think that set things off on the wrong leg  foot, worsened only by Bones’ er, um, enthusiastic direction. On the aftershow Christian really gave it to Bones about this & a couple other things. It was clear that while Christian likes Bones, he definitely has his number & calls him out.

 

Thanks to whoever posted the link to the aftershow. I absolutely loved Christian’s photo choices. The one he chose for Bones was really good.

[caitmcg]

2 hours ago, Mahfouz said:

However, if the model did not appreciate his feedback she should have modeled better. But clearly there was something off between what Bones wanted to see and what the infallible one was doing. It wasn't Coco's design, nor would she suffer any consequences for any of her choices. This was all on Bones. If I were on a show like this and it was my time to be auf'd I would prefer to have it come down to my choices. 

 

I don’t think Coco’s comments were as personal as that. She was talking about Bones's participation in a professional context relative to her (extensive) experience, and how he was stepping over the photographer, not her. In the snippet that ran in the preview, she said that if he'd behaved that way in one of her normal photo shoots, the photographer would have shut it down. The other designers all participated and suggested ways for Coco to pose without overstepping.

[StatisticalOutlier]

I wonder if Coco stayed perched on the 3" of the front of her chair seat for the entire runway and judging.  Maybe her legs were long enough to keep her perched there without effort, but it didn't look comfortable.  Or maybe it was just an extended isometric session.

 

[kirklandia]

"It reminded me of the best days of America’s Next Top Model.   I always loved seeing the photos."

Me too.  Although one of the things that bugged me about ANTM was the degree to which the selection of each contestant's photo influences the outcome. Tyra had complete control.  
So I did like that PR let the designers select the photo.

Did ANTM ever let models choose the photo they wanted to represent them?

[Stats Queen]

On 1/23/2022 at 7:29 PM, IdEatThat said:

I absolutely loved this challenge.  I hope we see this every season.  It leveled the playing field and really showed the strengths and weaknesses of each designer

Right. It isn’t about plus size models it’s about creating an even playing field for each challenge to display the contestants abilities and creativity.

Bravo throwing in a couple of plus sized women in each episode doesn’t level the field at all, it makes it even more unlevel. I feel hat they are playing lip service to “body diversity”. Either go all the way in or don’t go in at all. 
I truly understand that design is an art and that tall, thin models seem to best display “art”. However, that is art and it is subjective to the industry.

The fact of the matter is that you can make the best “art” in the world,  ut if no one will buy it (because they don’t have any clue what it would look like on them), then you created beautiful art but may have a hard time selling your “art”. 
 

However, in this day and age, there are new types of “hangers” around, many of which the majority of woman might be interested in. 
 

i am 5’2” and I have now idea how any of this clothes would look on me as all the models, including plus size are tall.

So Bravo, either level the playing field as in this last challenge and make each episode challenge all the designers the same way. If you don’t your just playing lip service to “we welcome body diversity” because no, you do not.

[RedbirdNelly]

I am a very not in the know person for fashion but I know who Coco is. I learned from watching ANTM. She is someone that helps me truly "get" what makes a great model. You see her pose and a light bulb goes off for me. I get why she is big. She just does things that aren't natural to everybody else--and she comes off to me as pretty normal and nice. 

I enjoyed this episode. I was puzzled by how much Chasity kept focusing on the Disney villain thing--if it was a new concept, I would have been on board but it's not. And the dress was not that interesting. I liked Bones and I thought aspects of his dress were really nice but he did not meet the challenge well. 

[RoxiP]

Now Coral is an artist...if she's an artist why can't she draw on her cat liner evenly?  Is it a new trend to make your eye liner go up before you reach the end of your eyes?  I think both Coral and one other designer (maybe Anna?) have both done that this season.  It is distracting.

At least this episode the designers didn't dress to compete with their fashion.  I guess having to actually go to the photo shoot kept them from overdoing their own personal wear.

I think what Christina made was just ugly, unflattering, and looked more like a Cirque de Soleil costume than an editorial garment.  

[HurricaneVal]

That eye makeup is a "thing" these days.  One of my teen nieces is really into it, and other funky eyeliner techniques.

[RoxiP]

15 minutes ago, HurricaneVal said:

That eye makeup is a "thing" these days.  One of my teen nieces is really into it, and other funky eyeliner techniques.

I could never do a regular cat eye....perhaps this alternative is for people like me...LOL!

[BloggerAloud]

Shantall is doing very well on this show and I like a lot of her designs, I just wish there was more acknowledgement that this is essentially, for her, an all stars season since she's already competed on a version of the show before and was first runner up. Like obviously the version she was on had different judges and whatnot, but there is something about already knowing a lot of the ins and outs of reality competition before you get there.

 

If you watch the after show with Christian, he chose better photos for all the designers and it was wild how much better each one of his choices were.

Edited January 27, 2022 by BloggerAloud

[Pallida]

I figure Christian had more time to do better photo comparisons to pick the correct one AND he has the experience to choose. On Twitter, Bones really dismissed the wisdom or expertise that tend to come from those with experience. I'm not saying new people can't or won't have fresh ideas, but at least take a moment to listen to see if it might have some bits of useful stuff before being dismissive and domineering.

[BloggerAloud]

4 hours ago, Pallida said:

I figure Christian had more time to do better photo comparisons to pick the correct one AND he has the experience to choose. On Twitter, Bones really dismissed the wisdom or expertise that tend to come from those with experience. I'm not saying new people can't or won't have fresh ideas, but at least take a moment to listen to see if it might have some bits of useful stuff before being dismissive and domineering.

You're right. Also he has a detachment from it because it's not his garment so there aren't a lot of emotions wrapped up in this legendary model wearing the clothes and such.

[Leeds]

Why was Kristina wearing surgical shorts at the photo shoot?

Edited January 28, 2022 by Leeds
Christina or Coral; not sure which

[Ms Blue Jay]

I have no idea what happened last week.  My PVR didn't tape the show!?  I don't know.  I'm so beyond confused.

1.  Coco Rocha is incredible.  I was so moved by her modelling, she blew me away.   I watched many seasons of ANTM, and I don't think that any of the best models from the 20 or 30 seasons of that show could touch somebody like Coco.

2.  I actually loved Kristina's photo.  I don't care that Nina thinks she's Queen of the Editorial.  Vogue Italia is a million times better at editorials than Elle, anyway.  But I loved that photo.

3.  I. DON'T. GET. CORAL.  I DON'T. FREAKING GET IT!!!!!!!   I thought that her dress was a Lanvin rip off and so so so so overrated!  I preferred Bones!  I think they wanted an all 4 female finale and were going to kill themselves to get there.  It's not like I think Bones is amazing, but I did really like his outfit this week.

For my money, Chasity's picture was awful, what the hell?   Worse than Bones's.

But Shantell and Kristina did have my top 2 photos. 

Ever since Christian saved Shantell they have determined that Shantell will be the winner, maybe to prove Christian right?  

I feel like Coral was trying to do something like this and failing:

Edited January 28, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 1/21/2022 at 3:21 PM, chitowngirl said:

I never even noticed Coco’s face. I was immediately drawn to the clothing, which is the point and function of modeling, for the most part.

Coco is an absolute genius with her face.  I think that people think that the "point of modelling is to draw you to the clothing", but I think modelling is meant to be aspirational.  Actually, some models distract you from the clothing, and you start thinking, if I want to look like her, I should get that outfit.  Interesting psychology.  Somebody like Naomi Campbell is going to walk in an outfit and you're going to think damn!  Maybe I can look that good too!  You're not going to be able to ignore her face or her body.  

Coco is so theatrical, almost like an actor.  I think she draws you into the editorial like it's an art piece, and you start fantasizing over the art.  A lot of high fashion editorials don't even showcase the clothing and you have to kind of look for it, like a Steven Meisel.  He cares more about the art story.   You're just really buying into the story.  

Edited January 28, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Boo Boo]

I love Coco!  She has such unique features that may not be the typical standard model beauty but to me make her so fascinating.  Loved what she brought to the show this week.

I wish Bones had stayed.  Chasity's design was horrific.  I haven't liked much of what she's put out.  It tends to look cheap to me.