S03.E09: All the Bells Say

[Schweedie]

Now that was a season finale, dang.

I loved the moment with Shiv, Roman and Kendall when they were heading off after they finally got Kendall up off the ground - she asked him where he wanted to wait and he asked "Can I be with you guys?" Even with how fucked up their relationships with one another are, they're still the best they all have.

[CouchTater]

Can anyone tell me what other prospects Willa may have? He obviously annoys her at times, but he seems mostly benign and loving.  In her shoes, I'd absolutely marry Connor!  But she clearly has genuine concerns.  I'd love to know a little more about her.

[stacyasp]

8 hours ago, HC87 said:

Shiv looked really fat this episode....just sayin' 

She’s got a big butt and that dress was not the best style/ cut for her...but fat no.

[Msample]

Sometimes its the little things that make this show so awesome and hilarious at the same time, like Greg getting intel via “Lackey Slack”. 

[Blakeston]

This episode was riveting, but at the same time, I'm disappointed.

I'm sure the writers want us to believe that Everything Has Changed! But has it, really? 

Logan is still untouchable - he'll have a lofty position within the company. The kids are united against him at the moment, but how long will that last?

Tom and Shiv seem to have crossed the point of no return. But have they really? It seemed like their relationship had entered new territory at the end of last season, with Shiv begging Logan to spare Tom...but then the writers acted like it had never happened.

I won't be surprised if season 4 involves re-treading a lot of the same character beats and plot points that we've seen many times before.

 

[ahpny]

11 hours ago, Lady S. said:

11 hours ago, Johnny Dollar said:

I love Tom’s angle, but I don’t know why he needs Greg. What does he bring to the fight that makes him an attack dog?

.Absolutely nothing, Tom's just genuinely attached to him

"Attached" might be an odd characterization of Tom's connection with Greg, but their relationship is certainly enigmatic. While some have suspected that there's a viper lurking beneath Greg's clueless and bumbling demeanor, that's hardly clear (despite the "Greenpeace is bad" shtick). It's even less clear how Greg can be useful to Tom, but he is the one non-Logan connection to the Roy family that Tom hasn't yet burned to the ground, so maybe that has something to do it.

[MizLottie]

This episode felt like a roller coaster, I thought the first half was the frustratingly slow ride up and everything after was hold on and scream. 

 

How could Rava have allowed those kids to go overseas with troubled dad to their shitty grandmother's wedding and around toxic grandpa who spies on them?  It positively made me shiver to see Iverson and Logan cuddling over a book, you could just see Logan sizing up the further usefulness of the boy towards effing with Kendall. 

[cardigirl]

My take on Shiv and Tom is that she crossed a line when she said he wanted her because she didn't want him and that she was so above him.  I think next season may see Tom come into his own, and their dynamic may change, particularly if he has real power. It remains to be seen if Logan will deal with Tom in the same way he's dealt with the three kids, i.e., appearing to offer them something and then changing his mind or pulling it away. 

But holy heck was I proud of Tom for carving his own path. 😉 I hope it's not a fluke and that the Tom we saw building his relationship with Logan this season, doesn't disappear next season.   

 

[BC4ME]

I've been waiting the whole time for "Shiv" to finally herself be shivved and it finally happened.

[Madhattter]

I've been thinking all night about this finale. Obviously have questions about where this is all going to go, especially given how this season proved that lots of stuff that seems to be earth shattering in the season finale ends up coming to nothing the next season. But one logistical point of confusion from this finale:  The assumption is that Tom gave Logan a heads up about the kids planning to use the holding company provision to stop him from moving forward with the deal. Logan then calls the ex wife to get her to renegotiate and she sells out the kids. But, if Tom had NOT given Logan that heads up, and the kids had come in and "surprised" him with the holding company and using it to block his deal, couldn't Logan have just called the ex-wife then to renegotiate then?  Essentially, he didn't need advance notice to renegotiate with the ex wife to get his way, right?  I understand the betrayal by Tom (which Shiv clearly gets but maybe Roman and Kendall don't yet) is more dramatic, and I guess that is the point? 

[pasdetrois]

Shiv's eyes in her sidelong glances remind me of Simone Signoret.

I was a bit distracted by the poor fit of her flowered dress. So many of her mannerisms are one-note, so it was good to see the actress given the chance to show some range.

I'd seen Tom M. in multiple British productions and was underwhelmed, but holy cow this is the performance of a lifetime. It is uncanny.

Hopefully the next season will be as compelling as this last episode was. In some of the earlier episodes I was bored.

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, Lassus said:

You were paying attention, so I have to actually ask you.  I'm not sure if it was terribly minor or a setup for later, but what were the business things that Greg was talking about in this episode with Tom a couple of times?  They sounded like actual adult sentences about things, which was confusing.

Iirc, he was basically on a slack with a lot of underlings at companies and that let him know which bigwigs were in town, which clued them in to what was going on.

2 hours ago, Jordan Baker said:

Most surprising scene of the episode--Logan reading to his grandson. It was both unexpected and funny (the way Logan wanted a book with more action).

That he made it a few sentences before needing to judge the kid as a pussy for wanting a comfort story and then demanding a story he liked instead. Nice little dynamic of the two kids knowing each other, sort of mirroring his own kids. Sophie understood that sometimes he just still liked that story, and Iverson under worse scrutiny from grandpa as the boy and the one showing weakness.

2 hours ago, Schweedie said:

Now that was a season finale, dang.

I loved the moment with Shiv, Roman and Kendall when they were heading off after they finally got Kendall up off the ground - she asked him where he wanted to wait and he asked "Can I be with you guys?" Even with how fucked up their relationships with one another are, they're still the best they all have.

Loved that moment! Also made me think of in the car when they say how they'll have to fight out who gets what if Logan is gone but then they all agree that that would just be fun.

37 minutes ago, ahpny said:

"Attached" might be an odd characterization of Tom's connection with Greg, but their relationship is certainly enigmatic. While some have suspected that there's a viper lurking beneath Greg's clueless and bumbling demeanor, that's hardly clear (despite the "Greenpeace is bad" shtick). It's even less clear how Greg can be useful to Tom, but he is the one non-Logan connection to the Roy family that Tom hasn't yet burned to the ground, so maybe that has something to do it.

Yeah, that's my impression of him too. When he agreed to a deal with the devil he didn't even known what he was agreeing to. Not that this doesn't mean he doesn't have the potential to be terrible--people can be terrible in a passive way. But that's more what I see with Greg, that he's still a normal person who's not particularly good rather than someone who's secretly really bad or ambition.

31 minutes ago, MizLottie said:

How could Rava have allowed those kids to go overseas with troubled dad to their shitty grandmother's wedding and around toxic grandpa who spies on them?  It positively made me shiver to see Iverson and Logan cuddling over a book, you could just see Logan sizing up the further usefulness of the boy towards effing with Kendall. 

Eh, they had a nanny and Logan doesn't usually have much interest in them anyway.

20 minutes ago, Madhattter said:

But, if Tom had NOT given Logan that heads up, and the kids had come in and "surprised" him with the holding company and using it to block his deal, couldn't Logan have just called the ex-wife then to renegotiate then?  Essentially, he didn't need advance notice to renegotiate with the ex wife to get his way, right?  I understand the betrayal by Tom (which Shiv clearly gets but maybe Roman and Kendall don't yet) is more dramatic, and I guess that is the point? 

Yes, I took the "who told him we were coming?" as just a side thing. It didn't matter when Mom betrayed them--she would have done it anyway. Having it be this dramatic just gave it an extra humiliating note, and a specifically painful one for Shiv. Tom just declared for Logan and that's what was important.

[dmc]

10 hours ago, HC87 said:

Shiv looked really fat this episode....just sayin' 

Wow unsolicited fat shaming commentary of a completely normal healthy female body followed by the douchecanoe phrase of the century just sayin (not even completely spelled out in its entirety).  
🙄🤦‍♀️🤷‍♀️

I am excited to see what happens next year with the show.  Will miss the lively discussion with most of you!

Edited December 13, 2021 by dmc

[Ms Blue Jay]

2 hours ago, CouchTater said:

Can anyone tell me what other prospects Willa may have? He obviously annoys her at times, but he seems mostly benign and loving.  In her shoes, I'd absolutely marry Connor!  But she clearly has genuine concerns.  I'd love to know a little more about her.

LOL it made me think of how Mireille Enos tells the story of marrying Alan Ruck.  She had a crush on Alan Ruck/Cameron from Ferris Bueller since childhood and when she became an adult she pursued him and married him.  LOL!  And on Succession marrying Alan/Connor is looked at as "Fuck it"  

[Ms Blue Jay]

24 minutes ago, pasdetrois said:

Hopefully the next season will be as compelling as this last episode was. In some of the earlier episodes I was bored.

It is frustrating when a season does a lot of filler all building up to a big finale at the end.  But honestly, I didn't really notice how slow or NON moving the plot was this entire season until people here pointed it out.

[Alexander Pope]

7 hours ago, Pete Martell said:

Sarah Snook is gorgeous. I don't like some of the clothes they give Shiv, like that Dick Tracy villain suit she had on when she tried to manipulate Gerri last week, but I have to remind myself not to expect a fashion parade and there's a reason why they sometimes chose less flattering clothes. When they get it right, like that grey knit dress she wore a few episodes back, you  get why Tom held out for as long as he did. 

Totally agree.  I think the costume designers are very aware of the many ways that Shiv doesn't look quite right and that it's all deliberate.  Shiv has been struggling this season in multiple ways, in private and in public, and the clothes show it.

[Lassus]

29 minutes ago, pasdetrois said:

I was a bit distracted by the poor fit of her flowered dress.

It didn't seem a poor fit to me, simply made to be tight and form-fitting.  Subjective?

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 minute ago, Lassus said:

It didn't seem a poor fit to me, simply made to be tight and form-fitting.  Subjective?

Oh I love when she wears dresses like that that show off her curves.

Did you guys notice in the van, Roman said to Kendall and Shiv, "I don't want you guys to big brother me".  I thought that would add fuel to our debate of whether Roman or Shiv is younger 😉

[iMonrey]

I guess I'm in the minority but I feel like this season has been all over the map. It started out with the FBI raiding Wayco headquarters and Kendall turning against the family and going public with Greg's papers, and then . . . that all just sort of got swept under the rug and went nowhere. And then there was that one episode where they were picking the president? WTF? And then suddenly it was all about acquiring this new company, and a lot of scenes with Alexander Skarsgard. 

I get that these are some really well drawn, fascinating characters and the actors are terrific and the dialogue is fantastic and all the little pieces are fun to watch. But big picture, it kind of never goes anywhere. And I, for one, am sick of Logan. The cranky old bastard who tells everyone to fuck off is a one-note character I do not find entertaining or amusing. Everyone is jockeying for positions they will never have so long as this character remans alive. I was frankly hoping he would die back when he almost had a heart attack earlier this season.

I tend to agree with Blakeston, above, the show just sort of keeps hitting the reset button so they can continue to play out the same dynamics over and over again.

[Lassus]

11 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

LOL it made me think of how Mireille Enos tells the story of marrying Alan Ruck.  She had a crush on Alan Ruck/Cameron from Ferris Bueller since childhood and when she became an adult she pursued him and married him.

I would like to very sadly report that this did not entirely work out with me and Mia Sara.

[pasdetrois]

I am - ahem- curvy and would kill for SS' posterior. No shame in form-fitting.

But this dress seemed poor fit vs form-fitting because of the way it pulled at the hips and bust. Perhaps I've been watching too much Project Runway.

I appreciate the suggestion that the fit was intentional to reflect Shiv's harried state of mind and/or pregnancy.

Edited December 13, 2021 by pasdetrois

[sistermagpie]

2 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Oh I love when she wears dresses like that that show off her curves.

Did you guys notice in the van, Roman said to Kendall and Shiv, "I don't want you guys to big brother me".  I thought that would add fuel to our debate of whether Roman or Shiv is younger 😉

Caught that the same way. It was like an alarm going off on my screen. LOL.

[Lassus]

2 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I tend to agree with Blakeston, above, the show just sort of keeps hitting the reset button so they can continue to play out the same dynamics over and over again.

I think this is completely fair.  It is, ultimately, a soap opera; and this has not been the most narratively interesting season, more like a lot of snapshots. 

But it is still eminently watchable, even with those sins.

[Ms Blue Jay]

4 minutes ago, pasdetrois said:

I am - ahem- curvy and would kill for SS' posterior.

I would too.  She should release a workout video.

[aghst]

2 hours ago, stacyasp said:

She’s got a big butt and that dress was not the best style/ cut for her...but fat no.

She's Rubenesque.

She's got baby bearing hips.

Baby got Back!

[poeticlicensed]

So at the end of the day, there will be no succession within the family. Logan would rather sell than turn the company over to his kids. Im trying to figure out if its because he sees their shortcomings business wise, or if its all about screwed up family relationships and inability to love. 

As for Shiv and Tom, I'd be more than devastated if my husband sold me down the river , but Tom knows the score with Shiv and he has also seen the kids lose to Logan every single time. He knows if shiv tossed him to the curb he'd be out of the company with crumbs. He decided to hitch his wagon to the one who he sees winning over and over and assumes his loyalty will be rewarded. Watch out Tom, this may come back and bite him. If the sale goes through I cannot imagine Mattson and Tom having a good dynamic. They are polar opposites. Actually I'm a bit tired of the old yes men Logan surrounds himself with. Hoping they get screwed in the end. 

[aghst]

1 hour ago, Blakeston said:

 

Logan is still untouchable - he'll have a lofty position within the company. The kids are united against him at the moment, but how long will that last?

For a second, as they went to confront their father, the Roy kids were asking each other were they ready to kill their father -- push him out of the company.

As they were driving, I thought there is no way they're going to end the Logan character, he's too central.

Just as they were not going to kill off Kendall with at least two more seasons left.

 

[aghst]

38 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

It is frustrating when a season does a lot of filler all building up to a big finale at the end.  But honestly, I didn't really notice how slow or NON moving the plot was this entire season until people here pointed it out.

Never bored.

If you're expecting a lot of action and "movement" Succession was never that show.

The events are things like some charity dinner in season 1 where Logan spoke for the first time since he was hospitalized.

Or the family going to New Mexico to have a family therapy weekend.

Or all the different family gatherings they've had over the years, like the hunting lodge for Boar on the Floor.

Not a lot happening at these events rather than the characters being their glorious awful selves.

People who think the point of the show is Logan choosing one of them are wrong.  It's about the journey, with the great dialogue (putdowns) acting and writing.

 

[DrSparkles]

11 hours ago, HC87 said:

Shiv looked really fat this episode....just sayin' 

Do you mean “phat”?

[Lassus]

15 minutes ago, aghst said:

As they were driving, I thought there is no way they're going to end the Logan character, he's too central.

I think it could have worked with them forcing him out and him clawing his way back.  I can see why they wouldn't, but it was one idea.

17 minutes ago, aghst said:

Just as they were not going to kill off Kendall with at least two more seasons left.

I feel like I had already heard the 4th was it.

[Absurda]

13 hours ago, Diapason Untuned said:

No wonder they're all so fucked up, especially Roman. Then he tried to play it off as a lesson for them to succeed, which would have made some sort of sense, if Logan himself hadn't basically manipulated them so he could keep them locked to him, He fucked all of them over when they were trying to gain some measure of independence from him, he doesn't get to complain about the real world to them now. 

OMG so much this!  Shiv had a career away from the company and Logan couldn't stand it.  He manipulated her into giving it up and joining the company.  He can't legitimately complain about them not being independent of him when he makes their dependence a condition for his love and approval.

[Carolina Girl]

11 hours ago, aghst said:

So what happened to the docs that Greg hid for the second time?  

I believe DOJ told Kendall that the docs didn't have the "juice" he thought they did.  

[sistermagpie]

1 minute ago, Absurda said:

OMG so much this!  Shiv had a career away from the company and Logan couldn't stand it.  He manipulated her into giving it up and joining the company.  He can't legitimately complain about them not being independent of him when he makes their dependence a condition for his love and approval.

Kendall tried to take the buy out Logan threw in his face and Logan wouldn't accept that either!

[BlackberryJam]

I’m stepping back from discussions of women’s bodies, but if anyone wants to engage in a discussion of Brian Cox as fat but wearing oversized clothes that make him look like a lumbering rhino with sagging skin that will kill you, I’m down.

I can actually imagine a scene of Logan and Tom next season with Tom pushing for a bigger piece or more support and Logan saying, “You fucked my daughter. Did you really think I’d reward you for fucking my daughter?” And Tom is right back scraping again.

As to the divorce, I imagine it’s written that with Caroline’s share/interest taking a back seat, that there has to be a supermajority (usually 2/3) to agree to the change in control/sell the company as part of the decree. So she could stop the sale because without the kids votes, Logan couldn’t put together a supermajority. 

Caroline and Logan can renegotiate their divorce settlement at any time by agreement as long as they have included language in that original settlement that they can renegotiate. It seems to me that Caroline is just agreeing to remove the language that Logan needs a supermajority in order to change control (sell) in exchange for whatever she wanted for her bowl of porridge husband. 

This is different from a hostile takeover attempt like what Sandy and Stewy were trying. I totally missed Stewy’s one-liners this episode. 

Logan was done with Kendall, but he tried to isolate both Shiv and Roman, and sell the same pile of shit he’s been selling them for years. They stuck together for the very first time. And Logan still won.

From Logan’s perspective, the historic fine from the DoJ is going to cripple him and his ability to expand. So as Mattson said, he’s stuck with content but only an antiquated way to push it out. While Mattson has the way to push but not the content. Mattson is just a version of Logan who isn’t torturing his own children. He’s bored and likes the game. He’s been playing the Roys from the moment he walked into Kendall’s birthday party. 

Logan selling now is better for him financially that paying the DoJ fine, being crippled financially and ending up with Sandy and Stewy in charge. 

Logan didn’t let his children develop the skills to make their own piles. He pulled Shiv out of her political career. He kept Kendall down. He abused Roman. He ignored Connor. All the while dangling his approval like a carrot. 

I love this show.

[Carolina Girl]

4 hours ago, NeenerNeener said:

I don't know which line made me laugh harder:

We just walked in on Mom and Dad fucking us

or

Get in there, Greg. If Roman marries her he'll invade France

I vote for the Greg line.  I totally snorted when he said that.  

[ahpny]

2 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

Caroline and Logan can renegotiate their divorce settlement at any time by agreement as long as they have included language in that original settlement that they can renegotiate.

That last part of this is not correct. Such language does not need to be in the original agreement. As long as the parties to an agreement want to change it, and their changes don't need the consent of anyone else (as appears to be the case here), they can change that agreement at any time no matter what the original document says or doesn't say.

As others had mentioned, this means that Logan didn't need advance notice to run to Caroline before the kids ran to him with their threat. Logan could just as easily have gone to Caroline after receiving their kids' threat and defuse that in exactly the same manner with exactly the same effect. However, Caroline may then had more leverage and might have demanded more in exchange since supermajority voting rites would then have been not just of hypothetical or prospective value, but of an exceeding high current value. It's unclear how much Caroline knew (or cared about) the status of the GoJo deal negotiations, however.

[poeticlicensed]

The true love story of Succession is Tom and Greg. 

Logan controls his children like he controls his company, through a combo of fear and manipulation. He will never let them go and they will always come back for more. I think Connor has the best life. Logan thinks he's a fuckwit so he gets left alone to enjoy his billions. 

[Carolina Girl]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

Yes, I took the "who told him we were coming?" as just a side thing. It didn't matter when Mom betrayed them--she would have done it anyway.

Certainly if Kendall remembered that the three of them had to approve the sale, that for sure Logan would remember it as well and anticipated the pushback.  I would not surprise me if he had had that revision drafted and presented to Caroline for signing before he even left Switzerland.  

[FemmyV]

This episode felt like such a perfect bookend for the Season 2 finale that I have to wonder if they were both banged out around the same time, and the rest of this season was engineered to get us here.  Season 2 yacht scenes showed the Roy kids actually cared very much for each other and knew Daddy was toxic, but also were still willing to sacrifice each other and/or unwilling to believe there would be serious consequences for whomever that sacrifice would be. Season 2 finale, Tom lobbed the idea of a life without Shiv, who felt guilt enough to go to Logan and protect him.

So now we got to see them realize their potential together, if only too late, and Tom betray two of the three Roy kids.

Tom is a fascinating character and I hate him more than I hate the Roy kids because they never had a choice in who they were going to be shaped by, while Tom makes his own choices (including marriage to Logan's daughter) shaped solely by his own ambition. I totally love Matthew McF's work here, and I hope Tom gets brutally fucked in the end, lol.

I'd love to see Kendall walk away, go find and make peace with the Vaulter guy and back him in a new venture. Or focus on starting his own boutique business he can nurture.

Roman really does have problems and needs a therapist. Recall the anecdote about how he was caged like a dog, as a kid, and his sibs claiming he enjoyed it? Welp ... I did like him and Gerri together, but she is at risk, now, so unless they go public together that's dead.

I've grown to enjoy WilCon.

Overall, I wish the season had more, better highlights between these two episodes. But at least we will get more Skarsgard, next go-round.

 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by FemmyV
spelling

[evansmom10]

13 hours ago, Lassus said:

I've considered this, but did a single other person know what they were planning?  

It is true Logan might have simply KNOWN about this possibility and prepared, of course, and that Tom had nothing to do with it  He was pretty warm with her at the time.

Connor did, but, then I think-he nothing to gain from GoJo acquisition but, maybe he was so pissed about that conversation at the table and wanted to flex, that HE was the oldest and HE calls the shots? 

[poeticlicensed]

1 hour ago, BlackberryJam said:

I love this show

What the heck am I gonna watch now? Tried Billions and do not like. Sigh

In an interview right before the start of the season the actors were asked the characterize the season in one word. One said "Armageddon". Indeed. 

[Absurda]

21 minutes ago, FemmyV said:

Tom is a fascinating character and I hate him more than I hate the Roy kids because they never had a choice in who they were going to be shaped by, while Tom makes his own choices (including marriage to Logan's daughter) shaped solely by his own ambition. I totally love Matthew McF's work here, and I hope Tom gets brutally fucked in the end, lol.

For me, Tom has been the hardest character for me to get a read on.  I've always thought his occasional bafoonishness was an act hiding a sharper intellect, but really couldn't tell if I was reading too much into him or not.  I will say, as much as I love the actor, I do hate the character for how he treats Greg and other subordinates (the human furniture is where he lost me).

[Lassus]

28 minutes ago, evansmom10 said:

Connor did, but, then I think-he nothing to gain from GoJo acquisition but, maybe he was so pissed about that conversation at the table and wanted to flex, that HE was the oldest and HE calls the shots? 

Yeah, but even the show's makers have said it's Tom now.  My own speculation was sorta misguided.

[Ellaria]

56 minutes ago, FemmyV said:

Tom is a fascinating character and I hate him more than I hate the Roy kids because they never had a choice in who they were going to be shaped by, while Tom makes his own choices (including marriage to Logan's daughter) shaped solely by his own ambition. I totally love Matthew McF's work here, and I hope Tom gets brutally fucked in the end, lol.

I'd love to see Kendall walk away, go find and make peace with the Vaulter guy and back him in a new venture. Or focus on starting his own boutique business he can nurture.

Roman really does have problems and needs a therapist. Recall the anecdote about how he was caged like a dog, as a kid, and his sibs claiming he enjoyed it? Welp ... I did like him and Gerri together, but she is at risk, now, so unless they go public together that's dead.

I've grown to enjoy WilCon.

31 minutes ago, Absurda said:

For me, Tom has been the hardest character for me to get a read on.  I've always thought his occasional bafoonishness was an act hiding a sharper intellect, but really couldn't tell if I was reading too much into him or not.  I will say, as much as I love the actor, I do hate the character for how he treats Greg and other subordinates (the human furniture is where he lost me).

Tom is fascinating AND hard to read. He is smart and ambitious and, as we now know, ruthless. The Roy siblings sidelined him for too long and underestimated him. It should be no surprise that he made the killer move that he did last night. The signs were there. But somehow I was surprised. We will see a different version of Tom in S4. Can't wait to see his reaction when he realizes that Shiv is aware of his betrayal.

39 minutes ago, evansmom10 said:

Connor did, but, then I think-he nothing to gain from GoJo acquisition but, maybe he was so pissed about that conversation at the table and wanted to flex, that HE was the oldest and HE calls the shots? 

That's not Connor's game. Connor wants to be wanted, to be included but he isn't about making big moves. I like WilCon, too. It's about as close to normal as this show gets.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Ellaria Sand

[cloeymoon]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I guess I'm in the minority but I feel like this season has been all over the map. It started out with the FBI raiding Wayco headquarters and Kendall turning against the family and going public with Greg's papers, and then . . . that all just sort of got swept under the rug and went nowhere. And then there was that one episode where they were picking the president? WTF? And then suddenly it was all about acquiring this new company, and a lot of scenes with Alexander Skarsgard. 

I agree with all of this, same thoughts. But, despite the unresolved plot lines, I did enjoy the season. However, since Ken's big cliffhanger from season 2 ended up being so underwhelming, who knows If the one from season 3 will hold water once it returns.

[Jordan Baker]

It was shocking (to me) when Tom walked into the room and was revealed as the leak. It seems odd now, though, that I didn't realize something was up when Tom had that conversation with Greg. I think I was so focused on what was going to happen with the siblings and Logan that I just glossed over the Tom/Greg scene. 

Did anyone guess, from the Tom/Greg scene, what Tom was about to do/had done?

[peachmangosteen]

When I realized Tom sold the sibs out, I legit gasped lol. Then I thought good for him. Then I was like I hope the sibs murder him. This show, man!

4 hours ago, Blakeston said:

This episode was riveting, but at the same time, I'm disappointed.

I'm sure the writers want us to believe that Everything Has Changed! But has it, really? 

Logan is still untouchable - he'll have a lofty position within the company. The kids are united against him at the moment, but how long will that last?

Tom and Shiv seem to have crossed the point of no return. But have they really? It seemed like their relationship had entered new territory at the end of last season, with Shiv begging Logan to spare Tom...but then the writers acted like it had never happened.

I won't be surprised if season 4 involves re-treading a lot of the same character beats and plot points that we've seen many times before.

Exactly this. I mean, the last half of the finale was insane but I really have no faith that anything different will come from it. 

3 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Did you guys notice in the van, Roman said to Kendall and Shiv, "I don't want you guys to big brother me".  I thought that would add fuel to our debate of whether Roman or Shiv is younger 😉

I thought the same thing lol. For me, that was confirmation that Roman is the youngest. It honestly just makes the most sense.

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I get that these are some really well drawn, fascinating characters and the actors are terrific and the dialogue is fantastic and all the little pieces are fun to watch. But big picture, it kind of never goes anywhere. And I, for one, am sick of Logan. The cranky old bastard who tells everyone to fuck off is a one-note character I do not find entertaining or amusing. Everyone is jockeying for positions they will never have so long as this character remans alive. I was frankly hoping he would die back when he almost had a heart attack earlier this season.

Seconded.

2 hours ago, Lassus said:

I feel like I had already heard the 4th was it.

I hope so. I just don’t think this is a show that should go on and on. It’s gonna lose steam and I’d hate to see it go out with a whimper, better for them to go out before it gets even more stale.

[FemmyV]

1 hour ago, Absurda said:

For me, Tom has been the hardest character for me to get a read on.  I've always thought his occasional bafoonishness was an act hiding a sharper intellect, but really couldn't tell if I was reading too much into him or not.  I will say, as much as I love the actor, I do hate the character for how he treats Greg and other subordinates (the human furniture is where he lost me).

I think he plays the midwestern niceness and “wow I can’t believe how far I’ve come” to the hilt. But everything he did last night shouldn’t really have surprised us, when you consider how completely he tried to set up Greg to take the fall for the cruises cover-up in seasons 1 and 2. 
 

And yet, here we are. We’ve known he is unhappy with Shiv, but is trying to get her knocked up to solidify his status. Next season ought to be a doozy for SS.

[Evie]

4 hours ago, Jordan Baker said:

It was shocking (to me) when Tom walked into the room and was revealed as the leak. It seems odd now, though, that I didn't realize something was up when Tom had that conversation with Greg. I think I was so focused on what was going to happen with the siblings and Logan that I just glossed over the Tom/Greg scene. 

Did anyone guess, from the Tom/Greg scene, what Tom was about to do/had done?

I didn't at the time, but looking back, he called him Sporus, harkening back to the castrate and marry conversation. Like Nero, he killed his wife and castrated and married his slave, metaphorically, of course lol.

 

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Evie

[Lassus]

1 hour ago, FemmyV said:

We’ve known he is unhappy with Shiv, but is trying to get her knocked up to solidify his status.

I mean, this IS somewhat unfair.  "Unhappy with" is not "irretrievably horrified by" (certainly not at that point in the tale) and many people way more miserable than that have wanted to have children with no status to gain at all.  He might actually want a child for the same familial and emotional reasons millions of other people want children.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Lassus