S41.E08: Betraydar

[RedbirdNelly]

I have no idea what they were thinking with that vote--why over-vote for Tiffany? why not put most votes on Xander, some on Tiffany and either get him out--or get Tiff out when he plays and no longer has the idol? tossing a vote or 2 his way while hoping he played it made no sense.

Shan can't help herself I get. I like the fact she plays hard but she so over does it.

Could Ricard be more dumb eating the papaya? no, getting a reward doesn't mean you never eat camp food again--but you don't immediately come back and eat the food! 

[Lamb18]

11 hours ago, susannot said:

I like Shan and Ricard.  They are gamers.  Also Xander.  As someone said in the Live Chat thread, by hanging on to his idol. Xander displayed nerves of steel.  Also like Danny because dayum.  That is one fine hunk of man.

I like how Ricard plays. I feel like he's always looking toward the end while working out what to to get through the next tribal. And I like how he stands up to Shan. Also he doesn't take not getting his way so personally. He'll step back if he needs to in order to not jeopardize his end game. Shan would be a better player if she wouldn't be so obvious about wanting to control everyone's game.

[laurakaye]

11 hours ago, LanceM said:

I agree with Shan. In 41 seasons of Survivor we have never seen anything like this.

This is true.  But I feel like Shan, especially, is going too "meta" with the fact that she's on New Version Survivor and likes to call it out at every opportunity, and she's so thrilled to be a part of it that she's going to blow up her own game after she breaks her arm patting herself on the back.  I also gave some thought as to whether I would be as annoyed by her if she were a man, and I totally would.  Part of playing this game is listening to others' thoughts and strategies, giving them a hot minute to speak, and THEN debating the ideas.  She doesn't listen to anyone because she's too busy cutting them off and talking over them.  I'm trying to decide if I want her out at the next TC or I want to watch her talk herself into losing the game at FTC.

 

8 hours ago, Maverick said:

 So Peachy could have something to say to the camera as the Omniscient Narrator role he's cast himself as.

Ughhhh.....I hope all of the people on the street let Probst know that he can stop Jeff-'splaining immediately.  We understand.  And the "kids" who are watching also understand.

 

6 hours ago, GaT said:

Xander has to be suspicious of Ricard & his "use your idol" insistence. I mean seriously dude, could you be more obvious? 

Seriously, if Ricard of all people is sitting next to me at TC repeatedly demanding that I play my idol, I would do the complete opposite.  He has no prior relationship with Xander that I can recall.  In this way he and Shan are a perfect duo to sit next to at FTC - they both enjoy telling others what to do and how to vote.

I'm curious if Xander actually did find that advantage on the bench but didn't pick it up.  He was shown multiple times seeming to look at every part of that bench except the spot where the advantage was hidden.  I find it hard to believe that he didn't see it?  I also don't buy his explanation that he sat out to bond with the losers - he clearly knew there was a likely advantage on that bench, and I actually think he's smarter than that.  I guess we'll see during the flashback portion of next week's show.

[Lamb18]

10 hours ago, awaken said:

I don’t know why they bothered showing the hidden advantage at the challenge if xander wasn’t going to find it and it had no impact on the game. 

So Jeff can look cute and clever.

I thought Xander sat out because he knew advantages were often found at the sit out bench. He just didn't look hard enough for the one that was there.

[Lamb18]

@laurakaye, I thought Xander found the advantage because when he jumped in the water I thought I saw something white in his hand, which was curled like a fist. Then Jeff showed the bench with the advantage still there. But that sequence with Jeff could have been filmed at any time.

[JudyObscure]

3 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

There has also been discussion about the role of a pastor-to me the pastor helps instruct congregants even though we are all responsible to read the Bible and understand through the guidance of the Holy Spirit God's principles and lessons.  Additionally, a pastor should be a comfort to others through the challenges of life.  However, when I attend a church in which the pastor is not fulfilling obligations or trying to micromanage the lives of the members, I usually move on to another church. 

Last year, while we were all shut in, my pastor (a man) sent an e-mail almost every week reminding us that, even though closed, the church still needed money, even more money than usual!  He would always finish up by telling us that bringing our checks to the church should be "a last resort" and he would prefer we mail our checks or direct deposit through our banks.  During that time he never once sent an e-mail of comforting words or prayers and certainly didn't think of calling any of us to see if we were dead or alive.  So, yes, I moved to another church.

I believe God calls some people to be ministers, and some other people call themselves because they love the sound of their own voices and a congregation is the perfect captive audience.  I'm pretty sure Shan is the latter type. I would love to know more about her church.

ETA: I found her church, it's  Emmanuel Brinklow Seventh  Day Adventist in Maryland (Washington D.C. area.)  I can't read much of their site since I'm not on Facebook but I could find 2 pastors listed, not her, and no mention of her anywhere else.  Maybe she's a children's pastor?

Edited again because I'm thinking I'm being too harsh on her.  I also found out she has 66K followers on Instagram and that she's drop dead beautiful when she's glammed up, so she's probably witnessing in her own way more than I ever could.

Edited November 11, 2021 by JudyObscure

[KeithJ]

The funny thing is, when they first started talking about voting Heather, I was like "who's Heather?"

The more I watch this season, the more I just don't like any of them (which is a first for me I believe).

If I had to pick anyone, I guess I'd be rooting for Erika.

[peachmangosteen]

I can't stand Shan but honestly I think DeShawn came off like a baby in this ep. DeShawn and Danny had no good reasons for booting Naseer and Shan had several for why it wasn't a good idea. It feels like they're just mad that Shan (and the others) didn't fall in line with booting who they wanted.

Initially I didn't think I would like Xander but I liked the Yase dynamics and also they barely showed him in most of the earlier eps so I forgot about my initial thoughts. This episode reminded me that yea I kinda just don't like him. He comes off very fake and smarmy to me. And that voice, gah!

Evvie is my fave so I was super happy to see her win immunity.

[Leeds]

 

12 hours ago, Grrarrggh said:

I'm not a Christian but isn't that the whole point of a pastor? To tell parishioners what to do and how to interpret religious texts?

I'm not a Christian either but I don't think the role of a spiritual leader is "to tell" people what to do or how to interpret text, but rather to guide them.

 

[iMonrey]

Quote

Shan needs to get off my screen. I can not stand her. She's always talking and is annoying. 

Well, I'm pretty sure they are all always talking. The fact that every episode features more of Shan talking than, say, Heather talking, is very telling as to who is "important" this season, for one reason or another. 

Quote

Volunteering to sit out the RC so he could look for another advantage was smart,

I'm not sure he did, though. In his own words he sat out the challenge to throw his lot in with the losers. I know they edited in some very deliberate shots of him looking down around the bench while sitting there but those were obviously put in there for the suspense of "will he find the hidden advantage?" I think if had actually thought there might be one and looked for it but didn't find it, they'd show him telling us that so we could all have a good laugh at his expense.

Quote

I agree with Shan. In 41 seasons of Survivor we have never seen anything like this.

And I never wanted to, either.

[fishcakes]

I was sure Evvie, Xander, and Tiffany would stay together and then 30 seconds after last week's TC, they're running back to camp ready to throw each other under the bus. But then Xander and Tiff talked about voting together, Tiff and Evvie did vote together, none of them voted for each other, and Danny raised the possibility that the rift was a big act. So now I have no idea where Evvie and Xander stand with each other. It doesn't help that when Evvie gets excited, I can't understand a word she's saying. When she was explaining to Jeff how she knew the pyramid puzzle and then he turned to the camera and said, "that's how you play Survivor!" I was like ???? But I wouldn't be surprised if we never see that puzzle on the show again.

As for the Black alliance, Liana is the only one who still thinks that could be a thing. Shan said last night that Ricard was her number one, so I think she originally floated the other alliance just so she could ingratiate herself and Ricard in with Blue. She's clearly not on board, Danny always seemed non-committal at best, and at this point Deshawn would be just as glad if Shan walked into the ocean forever.

Ricard may not have seen earlier seasons where people got upset if people came back from reward and tried to eat, but it's happened. Jenna got into a spat with Deena in Amazon, and there was some petulance about Rob and Amber bringing back candy for everyone because they also brought some back for themselves. It probably still happens and they just don't show it. In any case, I didn't think what he did was terrible. He said he wanted to try it and took one small bite. Shan just enjoys being indignant about things.

Heather's bonehead whatever-that-was at TC not resulting in her getting voted out confirms for me that she has goat immunity. Naseer is probably going to be salty for a while, but she seems to be a complete non-entity for everyone else.

Edited November 11, 2021 by fishcakes

[Lamima]

So I dislike Shan and Ricard. But up thread someone said they thought those 2 were still a tight duo alliance above the AA (Cookout style) alliance. I disagree. I think she is all in on that. Every name she pushed...Evvie, Xander, Tiffany....did she even throw out Heather or no?...was a white name. And her vocally attacking Ricard for eating the papaya made me feel like she is looking for a reason to sever ties with him. Or have a reason to give when she throws him under the bus soon. I really see Danny, Liana, Shan and Deshawn going to the end. Maybe not F4 because that would be BB dumb of the gals to keep Danny and Deshawn to the very end...tougher to beat in II (I mean Danny should 100% be on everyone's lips from moment of merge...but he isn't). I think they will be more inclined to keep Nasheer and Erika over Danny and Deshawn. Even though Nasheer is likable and not good to go the the end with (especially for the unlikable Shan) he is not a smart gamer and can be manipulated. I see Heather being the last white person left. Maybe a black widow brigade 2.0 with Shan, Liana, Erika and Heather....and poor sweet Nasheer as the Erik. There was talk of girls alliance at beginning and I am betting this will be revisited. Especially with Deshawn coming in hot against Shan. 

Shan is no Parvati so I am not excited for this. Boo. But I also am not excited for another cookout Pajonjing with Danny, Liana, Shan and Deshawn as F4. This is likely going to be a disappointment of a season for me.

My faves are Xander and Evvie and I luvs me some Danny (that jump in the water 😋). I'd love to see Xander win it. But not gonna happen.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Lamima

[Cozytea]

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Last year, while we were all shut in, my pastor (a man) sent an e-mail almost every week reminding us that, even though closed, the church still needed money, even more money than usual!  He would always finish up by telling us that bringing our checks to the church should be "a last resort" and he would prefer we mail our checks or direct deposit through our banks.  During that time he never once sent an e-mail of comforting words or prayers and certainly didn't think of calling any of us to see if we were dead or alive.  So, yes, I moved to another church.

I believe God calls some people to be ministers, and some other people call themselves because they love the sound of their own voices and a congregation is the perfect captive audience.  I'm pretty sure Shan is the latter type. I would love to know more about her church.

ETA: I found her church, it's  Emmanuel Brinklow Seventh  Day Adventist in Maryland (Washington D.C. area.)  I can't read much of their site since I'm not on Facebook but I could find 2 pastors listed, not her, and no mention of her anywhere else.  Maybe she's a children's pastor?

Edited again because I'm thinking I'm being too harsh on her.  I also found out she has 66K followers on Instagram and that she's drop dead beautiful when she's glammed up, so she's probably witnessing in her own way more than I ever could.

I find this fascinating.  I haven't been to church since I was a kid. My mom was a committed churchgoer . Never missed a sunday.  Would go on Wednesday some weeks.  However she changed churches pretty often.  I never understood why. One day I asked her about it, she said I like going to churches that dont have too many people and where the pastor remembers why he's at the pulpit.  Your post made me think of that conversation. 

[HurricaneVal]

I haven't liked DeShawn since he first proposed completely unnecessarily throwing a challenge, but I think he showed us his ass last night.  I'm not fond of Shan either, but DeShawn couldn't stand not feeling like he was in charge and got all whiney about it.  I think Shan being strong and acting like a leader threatened his masculinity more than his game.  I have to say, as soon as Shan was all "help me learn, tell me how to communicate with you so I do it right next time" I'd have called bullshit on that, she couldn't have been more obvious about "and now I must handle this difficult person using these counseling tools I learned in seminary school" if she tried.

Naseer is too good for this game.

Ricard should have read the room and not snitched a piece of papaya.  Even if he was curious about what it tasted like, he should have waited for a better moment.  Or...maybe he can read a room and that was a deliberate aggressive act on his part for some obscure strategic reason.

Who knew surfer-doof Xander would turn out to be waaaaaay smarter than he looks, a brilliant strategist with balls of steel and apparently the observational skills of a nearsighted squirrel.  Either they didn't show us everything about the IC "negotiations" or that was a little bit of a dropped ball.  Xander should have negotiated safety for the next tribal council from everyone still competing in the endurance comp.

And now that we know there's a Heather, we learn she's a bit of a "Karen."

[kassandra8286]

1 hour ago, fishcakes said:

Ricard may not have seen earlier seasons where people got upset if people came back from reward and tried to eat, but it's happened. Jenna got into a spat with Deena in Amazon, and there was some petulance about Rob and Amber bringing back candy for everyone because they also brought some back for themselves.

Remember S4 with when Neleh and Pascal went on a yacht reward and when they came back she took the mint out of her mouth and offered it to the others?  That wasn't received very well either, lol.

What with Ricard's bad timing of "trying" a piece of papaya and the way he was so boneheadedly un-subtle in telling Xander to play his idol, I'm thinking he's not the most socially aware person out there. Must be why Shan had to be the Enforcer, he's just bad at it.

Edited November 11, 2021 by kassandra8286

[LadyChatts]

4 hours ago, RedbirdNelly said:

I have no idea what they were thinking with that vote--why over-vote for Tiffany? why not put most votes on Xander, some on Tiffany and either get him out--or get Tiff out when he plays and no longer has the idol? tossing a vote or 2 his way while hoping he played it made no sense.

Shan can't help herself I get. I like the fact she plays hard but she so over does it.

Could Ricard be more dumb eating the papaya? no, getting a reward doesn't mean you never eat camp food again--but you don't immediately come back and eat the food! 

This is what I don't understand.  It seems like they really want Xander and his idol out of the game.  They tried to get him to play it last night just so it'd be out of use.  But why not put more votes on him?  You're right that they still could have split the vote.  And either he'd play his idol and it'd be out of use, or he'd get voted off and his idol would go with him.  Doesn't make sense. 

Edited November 11, 2021 by LadyChatts

[DEL901]

I thought it was funny when they tried to convince Xander that Heather was the target.  He knew that didn’t make sense. 

When it comes to his surfer vibe, not sure if it is a put on, an exaggeration or how he normally behaves, but he’s an app developer and has a degree.  

[Kenzie]

4 hours ago, Lamb18 said:

But that sequence with Jeff could have been filmed at any time.

That could be a real possibility. It's hard to imagine otherwise why someone would give up their spot in a reward challenge in order to (presumably) explore a simple bench for an advantage and then not at least look under it.

[bankerchick]

What a season of unlikeable characters.  It wasn't until this morning that I even remembered that I PVR'd the show, which is surprising because last week was such an old-school Survivor episode I was hoping our show was back.  I'm even over Danny, though I agree with Lamima that the jump into the water was worth tuning in for.  Xander appears to have nerves of steel, and count me among those who hopes he found the advantage under the bench.  That is 100% why he volunteered to sit this one out, no way do I believe he was doing it so he could bond with the losers.

[Leeds]

32 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

When it comes to his surfer vibe, not sure if it is a put on, an exaggeration or how he normally behaves, but he’s an app developer and has a degree.  

Neither of which are particularly noteworthy these days.

[HurricaneVal]

Yeah, on retrospect, I think there's more to the hidden advantage on the bench story.  Maybe Xander did find it--it surely wasn't hidden all that well--but the instructions once he unwrapped it told him to put the packaging back in place.  🤷‍♀️ 

I guess we'll find out. 

Xander did say he was going about his strategy the same way he addresses software issues with his job...logically and methodically with an eye to branching issues.

[DEL901]

12 minutes ago, Leeds said:

Neither of which are particularly noteworthy these days.

Not noteworthy, however they demonstrate he isn’t the surfer/dropout/airhead his demeanour suggested.  

[Vikitty]

I'm happy because it looks like Shan and Ricard (the two people I don't want to win) are starting to crumble. Ricard with Papayagate and Shan getting on the outs of her alliance due to her big mouth and bad attitude.

Sad to see Tiff go as she was growing on me. Of the two "mom" figures, I prefer her over Heather.

I don't like Evie still but I enjoyed that her winning immunity threw a big wrench into the plot.

[Guest]

56 minutes ago, HurricaneVal said:

I haven't liked DeShawn since he first proposed completely unnecessarily throwing a challenge, but I think he showed us his ass last night.  I'm not fond of Shan either, but DeShawn couldn't stand not feeling like he was in charge and got all whiney about it.  I think Shan being strong and acting like a leader threatened his masculinity more than his game.  I have to say, as soon as Shan was all "help me learn, tell me how to communicate with you so I do it right next time" I'd have called bullshit on that, she couldn't have been more obvious about "and now I must handle this difficult person using these counseling tools I learned in seminary school" if she tried.

I agree that the way Shan tried to accommodate Deshawn was just guaranteed to make him more irritated. There's a way to make someone feel heard, but using language that sounds like you're reading it off of note cards isn't it. But there are also times where the only way to make someone feel heard is to 100 percent do what they want, which isn't ideal either. I'm still a bit more on Deshawn's side than Shan's, but neither of them were shining in those moments.

Just now, HurricaneVal said:

Yeah, on retrospect, I think there's more to the hidden advantage on the bench story.  Maybe Xander did find it--it surely wasn't hidden all that well--but the instructions once he unwrapped it told him to put the packaging back in place.  🤷‍♀️ 

I guess we'll find out. 

I have a hard time believing that they'd show Jeff specifically saying "I don't know if he looked for it, but he didn't find it" if Xander did actually find it. Because Jeff would obviously know if the advantage had some super-secret "put back the packaging" trickery.

[HurricaneVal]

Ah...but "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!"  This season is so filled with misdirection that at this point I don't believe anything I see.

[Guest]

Just now, HurricaneVal said:

Ah...but "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!"  This season is so filled with misdirection that at this point I don't believe anything I see.

That's fair enough. At this point it wouldn't be surprising to have Xander rip off his mask and be revealed as Malcolm.

[Andyourlittledog2]

Folks have been talking about Jeff the Omniscient but I've been thinking of Jeff the Apostle.  He's been doing this for seasons now but never more than this one: talking about Survivor like it's a religion beyond just any game. It is supposed to enlighten you, tell you about yourself and others and lift you up and change your life, make you a better person, there is nothing like it anywhere, you are the elect few that are allowed to play the game, etc. He has this glow of the true believer, impassioned apostle of Survivor and he is it's center, it's all knowing head. It's just weird is what I'm saying. He's become manic about it, talking to us like we are part of the cult or he wants us to be. I'm not saying he actually thinks about it being a real religion, but he seems to be imbuing it with religious overtones to a much greater degree than in seasons past. And he sounds crazy.

[bankerchick]

1 hour ago, tracyscott76 said:

At this point it wouldn't be surprising to have Xander rip off his mask and be revealed as Malcolm.

This would be awesome.

[deirdra]

17 hours ago, awaken said:

I don’t know why they bothered showing the hidden advantage at the challenge if xander wasn’t going to find it and it had no impact on the game. 

I was glad they showed it because Jeff was not subtle when he put it there and I assumed Xander saw Jeff's contortions and that's why he jumped at the chance to sit out on the hidden advantage bench. But apparently not.

Edited November 11, 2021 by deirdra

[Birnam Wood]

Liana, in confessional: “You just have to adapt! That’s what smart players do.”

Me, watching: “Well, this is awkward.”

Does anyone else get the sense that Heather is probably not nice to retail workers during the holiday season? She has that vibe.

[Chicago Redshirt]

6 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I can't stand Shan but honestly I think DeShawn came off like a baby in this ep. DeShawn and Danny had no good reasons for booting Naseer and Shan had several for why it wasn't a good idea. It feels like they're just mad that Shan (and the others) didn't fall in line with booting who they wanted.

The reasons for wanting to boot Naseer are pretty obvious IMO:

1. He is (seemingly) a sweetheart of a guy

2. He has not done anything to alienate anybody, and has seemingly been cool with everyone

3. He has been providing food and other help around camp, which will likely endear him to others

4. He has an idol which he can use to protect himself or another target of the AAA. 

5. As a Survivor superfan who actually has paid attention to the show and practiced things from it, there is a good chance that he could go on an immunity run.

All of the above makes Naseer a large threat at FTC.

Basically of the 10 still in the game, the three players as of now that I would least want to face are Xander, Evvie and Naseer. Xander has made the most memorable move in faking out Liana about the immunity idol, and he still has the idol because the players have not used their numbers to either send him home with a pocket idol or flush it.  Evvie has now won an individual immunity and survived an initial targeting. I don't think it is possible that she stays for much longer, but if she does and gets to the finals she could definitely win some votes for outlasting people. 

I think up till now, Heather and Erika have not done anything noteworthy (I discount the TBT because that was the producers foisting that on her). 

I think Ricard is too transparently a schemer to win.

And I think that of the AAA, DeShawn is the most threatening because he's got a pretty good social game. I think that Danny is going to be held back by already being a millionaire, Shan is ruffling a lot of feathers to make her winning more difficult than it might otherwise be, and Liana isn't the sharpest tool in the shed. 

Edited November 11, 2021 by Chicago Redshirt

[deirdra]

1 hour ago, tracyscott76 said:

I agree that the way Shan tried to accommodate Deshawn was just guaranteed to make him more irritated. There's a way to make someone feel heard, but using language that sounds like you're reading it off of note cards isn't it.

To me it sounded like Shan was saying to Deshawn - Ok, I now understand that you want to be heard. So I'll pretend to listen and then stick to my plan.

[bankerchick]

3 minutes ago, deirdra said:

So I'll pretend to listen and then stick to my plan.

'Not only that, but you need to stick to my plan too.'

[DEL901]

One of Shan’s problems is her lack of subtlety.    Maybe it works with her parishioners  to pretend to listen and then steamroll them to her position (or it worked before until she laughed about it on national tv), but she needs to understand that she is not in charge and is not operating from a position of authority over the others.  I don’t think the issue is her gender but how she minimally listens and then says a flat no without any discussion.   Maybe is she had asked DeShawn’s reasons, discussed them and presented the advantages of her plan…but she didn’t, he got his back up and now he doesn’t anything to do with her now. 

Edited November 11, 2021 by DEL901
Spelling

[Andyourlittledog2]

40 minutes ago, deirdra said:

2 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

I agree that the way Shan tried to accommodate Deshawn was just guaranteed to make him more irritated. There's a way to make someone feel heard, but using language that sounds like you're reading it off of note cards isn't it.

To me it sounded like Shan was saying to Deshawn - Ok, I now understand that you want to be heard. So I'll pretend to listen and then stick to my plan.

There is nothing more annoying than the realization that you are being 'handled'. And Shan reeks of someone who 'handles' people rather than truly listening and understanding them. 

[ProfCrash]

2 hours ago, Leeds said:

Neither of which are particularly noteworthy these days.

Only 1/3 of the adults in the US have a Bachelors degree and a smaller percentage of the American populace can do any real type of coding. Coders, even sucky ones, are making hundreds of thousands of dollars for a reason. We have temporary work visas for coders because there are not enough in the US. I would say both are actually note worthy for those reasons. 

Xander is playing a solid game and reading the room properly. His more chill vibe gives the impression that he is not seeng what is happening around him when he really is. He knew what Liana was up to, ok that one wasn’t exactly hard. He figured out that the Heather vote was stupid and likely being tossed out to throw him for a loop. 

I don’t get why Xander, Tiffany, and Evvie didn’t do more to try and convince Heather, Erika, and Nasser that they were at the bottom of the new mega alliance. Point out that Shan, Liana, and Ricard seemed to move into the Blue Alliance pretty easily. Heather noted that Shan was calling the shots, she should have been easy enough to persuade. Ask them point blank if they think that Shan, Liana and Ricard are going to be voted out before Erika, Nasser, and Heather. 

Or Heather, Erika, and Nasser are blindly hoping that they really are not at the bottom of the new mega alliance and are waiting for a time when they can work with Xander or Evvie or both to get rid of Danny and DeShawn. I just hope that the three of tem open their eyes and realize that they are screwed sooner rather then later. Pagoning isn’t fun like this. 

DeShawn can go any minute now. He is not happy if he is not the one calling the shots. Plain and simple. He sees himself as the mastermind and does not appreciate anyone who has a different thought. He is annoying and can depart.

And the mega alliance is freaking stupid. They should but the majority of votes on Xander so that he is gone if he doesn’t play his idol. It is really simple. There are 8 of them, 5 votes to Xander and 3 to a different target. If Xander plays his idol, then the 3 vote person goes home because the 5 Xander votes will go to the person who got 3 votes in case of a tie. This isn’t hard. But they are not smart enough to put that together. 

Bad game play, bad math, and boring outcomes.

[Leeds]

1 hour ago, DEL901 said:

One of Shan’s problems is her lack of subtlety.    Maybe it works with her partitioners to pretend to listen and then steamroll them to her position (or it worked before until she laughed about it on national tv), but she needs to understand that she is not in charge and is not operating from a position of authority over the others. 

Can you explain what a partitioner is?

Edited November 11, 2021 by Leeds

[DEL901]

21 minutes ago, Leeds said:

Can you explain what a partitioner is?

Darn autocorrect.   I meant parishioners.  

[Guest]

21 hours ago, LanceM said:

I agree with Shan. In 41 seasons of Survivor we have never seen anything like this.  

This is season 41 of Survivor?  Really?

You’d think someone would have mentioned it!

[peachmangosteen]

5 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

Doesn't make sense. 

Not much of what they’ve all been doing does tbh.

4 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

I have a hard time believing that they'd show Jeff specifically saying "I don't know if he looked for it, but he didn't find it" if Xander did actually find it. Because Jeff would obviously know if the advantage had some super-secret "put back the packaging" trickery.

Yea this. I know they’re into like non-linear storytelling and shit this season, but having Jeff straight up lie to the audience like that seems out of the realm of possibilities to me.

2 hours ago, bankerchick said:

'Not only that, but you need to stick to my plan too.'

Meanwhile DeShawn was like, ‘NO! Everyone is supposed to do as I say dammit!’

[iMonrey]

Quote

I have a hard time believing that they'd show Jeff specifically saying "I don't know if he looked for it, but he didn't find it" if Xander did actually find it. Because Jeff would obviously know if the advantage had some super-secret "put back the packaging" trickery.

Agreed. If they are going to go as far as Jeff just bald-faced lying to the audience that's where they'll be tearing their ticket with me. It's bad enough they've thrown in all these extra twists and advantages, but having Jeff just basically looking into the camera and saying such-and-such happened when it really didn't, that's going too far.

e.t.a. peachmangosteen beat me to it.

Edited November 11, 2021 by iMonrey

[blackwing]

21 hours ago, mojoween said:

Shan is bossy.  Super bossy.  And she thinks it’s pastoral!

What that actual fuck was Heather trying to accomplish?  Now I know why she didn’t get airtime for eight weeks.  She crazy.

I'm curious to know if Heather has been speaking this whole time, or if she suddenly decided to speak now.  She got airtime first in the episode solely because Shan told her she threw her name out as a decoy.  Then she had that inexplicable "ok it's time to talk" moment at TC.  I feel like she only did that because she felt like she is a "player" who has to make the "bold moves" to win the game.

She's a terrible player.  She almost won the IC, but I don't understand why she thought she was in danger in the first place?  She said she really needed it.

21 hours ago, Grrarrggh said:

I like Shan a lot and find it interesting so many people don't. If she was a man more people would love her game. Deshawn is getting on my nerves, and how can the others not realise how dangerous Ricard is?!

I don't fully understand why many people always throw out the "you just hate her because she's a woman" card.  And yet it seems pretty much accepted that no one is going to accuse other viewers of hating her simply because she is black, because it seems well understood that accusing someone of being a racist in the absence of them demonstrating that they are a racist is something that just isn't done.  So why is it ok to accuse others of being sexist in the absence of any demonstration that they are sexist?

I dislike Shan because I think she is bossy, controlling, and hypocritical.  She is upset that Deshawn won't listen to her.  "He's not listening to me.  He won't do it."  Yet at the same time, he could equally be saying the exact same thing about her.

20 hours ago, susannot said:

Naseer is lovable.  That is exactly why he will be voted out.  No one will want to sit next to him at FTC. Also he lacks the killer cutthroat gene.  Shan and Ricard have it.  Xander is sneaky and clever.  In fact I'm going out on a limb right now and predicting they'll be the Final 3.  I will revisit this prediction at the end to determine how wrong I was.

 

20 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Eh, I don't love him. He seems hopelessly naive. I know he's not privy to what we are but Danny and DeShawn keep throwing his name out there and yet he still thinks he's in tight with them. 

Count me among those who don't think that Naseer is lovable.  I agree that I find him naive, and I also think he comes across as desperate to fit in.  He has talked before about how English isn't his first language, so my feeling about him is that perhaps he is someone who feels like he hasn't fully been accepted by American society.  And here we have these cool guys, Danny and Deshawn, who are embracing him and treating him as an equal.  He strikes me as the nerd in high school that was always ignored or shoved into lockers, and now he's finally as cool as the people he thought were cool.  The relationship between him and Danny/Deshawn is very reminiscent to me of ubernerd Christian and the cool guy bohunk tandem of Dan the Cop and John the Wrestler from several seasons ago.

19 hours ago, dbell1 said:

I hate how the bottom feeders don’t go to people on the fringe of the core alliance and play into their fears. Why didn’t Heather, Evie, Tiff, Erika, Zander try and pull Naseer and Ricard? 

Imagine planning a potluck with Shan. You think you’re going with a bbq and next thing it’s vegan. She’s exhausting and too preachy (pun intended). Reminds me of why I quit the local church. 

And Ricard eating the papaya, he’s an asshole. Hope the cheese ruined his digestive system for a few days. People aren’t eating at all, and he come back from having a meal and goes for the loser’s food? I’d have put his name out there immediately.

Well, Erika and Heather clearly demonstrated that they continue to be bad at the game, they didn't even attempt to make any new alliances.  They seem convinced that they are strong and valued members of Blue and as far as they are concerned, they are with Naseer and the rest.

17 hours ago, GaT said:

Xander has to be suspicious of Ricard & his "use your idol" insistence. I mean seriously dude, could you be more obvious? 

Ricard and his innocent "I just wanted to try the papaya" was a complete ass.  He could have gone and gotten his own papaya.  Or at least he could have asked first before eating it.  I hope there is a fracture between him and Shan.  And I have no idea why he thought Xander would listen to him.  "Please play your idol."  With the impression that "you are the target so you need it, and you should thank me for telling you."  Then when Xander plays it needlessly, then Ricard can put "getting Xander to waste his idol" on his resume.  Ugh.

[TVbitch]

Heather looks like she could be Rachel Hunter's mom. 

Ricard could have saved papaya-gate by just saying, "I'm so sorry, I just wanted to taste it and wasn't thinking." But I'm kind of glad he doesn't suck up to Shan.

Shan cries over losing the challenge while everybody comforts her, then tells the guy who is upset they are changing the vote at tribal to stop being a baby. 

[blackwing]

10 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

Shan cries over losing the challenge while everybody comforts her, then tells the guy who is upset they are changing the vote at tribal to stop being a baby. 

Yep.  Yet another example of how she is a huge hypocrite.  When others do or say things, they are whining or stubborn or weak.  But when she does it, “it’s different”.

[ProfCrash]

I don’t like Shan is playing a good game or a game that I appreciate. She wants to be a strategist but is too emotional to be a solid strategist. She had chewed out Ricard how many times? Her logic about wanting the advantage back as a sign of faith before the last tribal council for the green tribe was ridiculous. Her response to the papaya bite was ridiculous. 

She is trying to control Ricard by playing on his emotions and make them feel bad for her. She fails to see how her arguments make no sense for the other person. She wants the advantage back when going to tribal so Ricard has a good reason for not voting for her. She is baffled when Ricard turns that argument around. And then she becomes whiny, pouty, and cries. 

She wasn’t wrong about keeping Nasser but the way she talked to DeShawn was condescending. She talks down to him and doesn’t listen to his point of view.  Then he gets upset when DeShawn disagrees with her and talks over him. She cannot have a conversation with people. She has to be right. And DeShawn approaches her talk about that and she says she’ll do better. Then at tribal she does the exact opposite. And the idea that she had to make sure he was heard, as a man, is ridiculous. How about just make sure he is heard. 

Her statement that she has to convince her parishioners that her way is the right way is telling. She is not interested in listening to people, so wants to control every thing.

There is a way to play the game Shan wants to play without being condescending and with out being so obvious about what she is doing. I mean Heather is on to Shan’s game. Heather handles it poorly but Heather see what is happening with Shan. 

I don’t like Ricard but he is playing a solid game. I love Nasser. I don’t think he is naive, I think he sees more then we think. I do think Nasser wants to fit in and he struggles because he has a different background. And I think his game play is provider enough and a non-strategic threat that people should worry about seeing him at the final tribal. 

 

[Chicago Redshirt]

I don't think that Shan's argument about wanting the advantage back was overall ridiculous. It's pretty basic: Ricard said that he would give it back and then clarified that statement to that he would give it back after tribal so he wouldn't be at risk of being backstabbed. Either he will or he won't. If he doesn't it's clear she can't trust him and thus should think of their alliance differently. What other way should she have approached it? There really isn't much appealing to whatever Ricard's viewpoint might have been on that. Or at least to the extent there was, she agreed to put the issue on hold until after tribal. She seemingly understood Ricard's logic that if she got the advantages back before tribal, she could backstab him and get away with it. 

Similarly, I think she might have overstated things about the papaya, but it wasn't a ridiculous reaction. She and most of the others she was with missed out on both the merge feast AND the most recent reward. For someone who had enjoyed both to come immediately back from the latter reward and be like, "I'm going to take your papaya because I want to" is pretty obnoxious.  It's hard for me to say for sure, but it didn't seem like Shan was alone in feeling like that was obnoxious. Liana tried to swat his hand away as he took the papaya and Danny asked him about whether he was eating the papaya and when Ricard said no, Danny said good. It may seem silly but it is the sort of thing that could get people to resent him and not vote for him to get the Sole Survivor prize or that could make people not want to work with him. 

[ProfCrash]

34 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I don't think that Shan's argument about wanting the advantage back was overall ridiculous. It's pretty basic: Ricard said that he would give it back and then clarified that statement to that he would give it back after tribal so he wouldn't be at risk of being backstabbed. Either he will or he won't. If he doesn't it's clear she can't trust him and thus should think of their alliance differently. What other way should she have approached it? There really isn't much appealing to whatever Ricard's viewpoint might have been on that. Or at least to the extent there was, she agreed to put the issue on hold until after tribal. She seemingly understood Ricard's logic that if she got the advantages back before tribal, she could backstab him and get away with it. 

Similarly, I think she might have overstated things about the papaya, but it wasn't a ridiculous reaction. She and most of the others she was with missed out on both the merge feast AND the most recent reward. For someone who had enjoyed both to come immediately back from the latter reward and be like, "I'm going to take your papaya because I want to" is pretty obnoxious.  It's hard for me to say for sure, but it didn't seem like Shan was alone in feeling like that was obnoxious. Liana tried to swat his hand away as he took the papaya and Danny asked him about whether he was eating the papaya and when Ricard said no, Danny said good. It may seem silly but it is the sort of thing that could get people to resent him and not vote for him to get the Sole Survivor prize or that could make people not want to work with him. 

She asked for it back before the Tribal after asking Ricard to hold it for her until after the Tribal. She failed to see that the same reason that she wanted it back early was why Ricard wanted to hold on to it for as long as he said he would. That is plain bad game play. Then she got emotional because she wasn’t getting her way. She threw a tantrum.

As for the papaya, they had three papayas. There was plenty to go around. While I get the principle of what you are saying, chewing out her Number One because he took a piece of papaya was ridiculous. It was an over reaction. Liana’s hand slap was also an over reaction but you could at least argue that it was at least playful. So yea, Ricard had just come back from a reward. He had a sandwich and some chips. It was more then the people at camp had but still not all that much in the grand scheme of things. Should he have waited until the others were done eating? Sure. Was he doing it to be an intentional asshole, no. 

My issue with Shan is that she moves into lecture mode when she doesn’t get her way. Then she moves into pouty mode. She ends up having a tantrum. She says that it is important for people to feel like she is listening to them so that they feel heard when they do what she wants them to do. I can’t imagine her as a Pastor, actually I can. She is the one who will find a passage in the Bible and tell people it means the exact opposite of what it really says so that she can get her way.

She is a bully. Maybe less aggressive then Russell and less brazen but a bully none the less. She uses her emotions as her weapon. She expects people to do what she wants and blows off other peoples thoughts. I hope to god it bites her in the ass.

[Hudson0325]

23 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Sure, it's still a game, but it's no longer chess. Now it's more like Bamboozled

I would describe it as Calvinball (fans of Calvin and Hobbs may remember)

[Tdoc72]

22 hours ago, iMonrey said:

For a minute there I thought maybe he volunteered to sit out the reward challenge because he figured there was a good chance it came with yet another advantage. But no, he just wanted to throw his lot in with the losers to assess the bittercakes. Which isn't a bad strategy in and of itself, but the game is such a crapshoot now it's hard to tell what's worth anything.

 

I think he did both. He was looking around the bench. But also listened to them, looking for info he could use. 

22 hours ago, awaken said:

I don’t know why they bothered showing the hidden advantage at the challenge if xander wasn’t going to find it and it had no impact on the game. 

When they showed it under the bench, it looked way bigger than the tiny package Jeff pulled up after. 

11 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I can't stand Shan but honestly I think DeShawn came off like a baby in this ep. DeShawn and Danny had no good reasons for booting Naseer and Shan had several for why it wasn't a good idea. It feels like they're just mad that Shan (and the others) didn't fall in line with booting who they wanted.

Evvie is my fave so I was super happy to see her win immunity.

DeShawn didn’t even get a chance to explain his reasons (faulty or not) for a Naseer boot because Shan gave him a no right away. 
Evvie is my fav too, but I fear she’s not long for this game. DeShawn and Naseer are my 2nd & 3rd favs. 

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

 

Meanwhile DeShawn was like, ‘NO! Everyone is supposed to do as I say dammit!’

I didn’t get that he was angry he didn’t get his way at all. He didn’t even say that. He was mad it wasn’t even being discussed. 
~~~
I don’t like Shan at all. I don’t like arrogance and condescension in anyone.  I don’t even care at this point who wins; I just want her to lose. 
 

Ricard remind me of this:  

Edited November 12, 2021 by Tdoc72

[blackwing]

21 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

She asked for it back before the Tribal after asking Ricard to hold it for her until after the Tribal. She failed to see that the same reason that she wanted it back early was why Ricard wanted to hold on to it for as long as he said he would. That is plain bad game play. Then she got emotional because she wasn’t getting her way. She threw a tantrum.

As for the papaya, they had three papayas. There was plenty to go around. While I get the principle of what you are saying, chewing out her Number One because he took a piece of papaya was ridiculous. It was an over reaction. Liana’s hand slap was also an over reaction but you could at least argue that it was at least playful. So yea, Ricard had just come back from a reward. He had a sandwich and some chips. It was more then the people at camp had but still not all that much in the grand scheme of things. Should he have waited until the others were done eating? Sure. Was he doing it to be an intentional asshole, no. 

My issue with Shan is that she moves into lecture mode when she doesn’t get her way. Then she moves into pouty mode. She ends up having a tantrum. She says that it is important for people to feel like she is listening to them so that they feel heard when they do what she wants them to do. I can’t imagine her as a Pastor, actually I can. She is the one who will find a passage in the Bible and tell people it means the exact opposite of what it really says so that she can get her way.

She is a bully. Maybe less aggressive then Russell and less brazen but a bully none the less. She uses her emotions as her weapon. She expects people to do what she wants and blows off other peoples thoughts. I hope to god it bites her in the ass.

Good post.  I fully agree that Shan is a bully through and through.  I’ve been saying this since the JD incident.

If I were the lead pastor of her church, I would fire her.  She pretty much admitted on national TV to millions of viewers that she bullies and/or bamboozles her parishioners.  She pretends to listen to them but in the end she makes sure they do things her way.  If I was a parishioner of hers, I would ask for her resignation.   
 

How can she have any credibility as a pastor after this statement of hers last night?   She doesn’t comfort or guide her parishioners.  She bullies them into doing what she wants.  And for her to freely admit it on TV... that’s just awful.