S41.E08: Betraydar

[DEL901]

19 minutes ago, blackwing said:

How can she have any credibility as a pastor after this statement of hers last night?   She doesn’t comfort or guide her parishioners.  She bullies them into doing what she wants.  And for her to freely admit it on TV... that’s just awful.  

I am always amazed at what people will say on camera assuming no blow back.  It is one thing to lie or even to steamroll DeShawn, but that confessional that she treats her parishioners this way….she will get and deserve real life blow back.  

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, ProfCrash said:

She asked for it back before the Tribal after asking Ricard to hold it for her until after the Tribal. She failed to see that the same reason that she wanted it back early was why Ricard wanted to hold on to it for as long as he said he would. That is plain bad game play. Then she got emotional because she wasn’t getting her way. She threw a tantrum.

As for the papaya, they had three papayas. There was plenty to go around. While I get the principle of what you are saying, chewing out her Number One because he took a piece of papaya was ridiculous. It was an over reaction. Liana’s hand slap was also an over reaction but you could at least argue that it was at least playful. So yea, Ricard had just come back from a reward. He had a sandwich and some chips. It was more then the people at camp had but still not all that much in the grand scheme of things. Should he have waited until the others were done eating? Sure. Was he doing it to be an intentional asshole, no. 

My issue with Shan is that she moves into lecture mode when she doesn’t get her way. Then she moves into pouty mode. She ends up having a tantrum. She says that it is important for people to feel like she is listening to them so that they feel heard when they do what she wants them to do. I can’t imagine her as a Pastor, actually I can. She is the one who will find a passage in the Bible and tell people it means the exact opposite of what it really says so that she can get her way.

She is a bully. Maybe less aggressive then Russell and less brazen but a bully none the less. She uses her emotions as her weapon. She expects people to do what she wants and blows off other peoples thoughts. I hope to god it bites her in the ass.

Yes, asking for the idol's return prior to tribal was short-sighted. But once Ricard pointed that out to her, she stood down pretty much immediately. She only started to really make a big deal out of it when tribal was over and he still didn't give it back to her. I didn't see her as being particularly emotional about it at that point.

There were three papaya for five people who hadn't been eating much. That is not really "enough to go around" IMO. But even if we agree for discussion's sake that it was, it still doesn't entitle Ricard to just help himself to some without asking. It's not ridiculous IMO to think that is obnoxious or to confront someone you're allied with both publicly and privately about how obnoxious that is. 

Liana's slap wasn't playful. She seemed pissed. And so if at a minimum Shan, Liana and Danny all thought it was wrong for Ricard to take the papaya, maybe, just maybe, others did too and what Shan did was not an overreaction but a common or expected reaction. I for sure know if I was in Shan or Liana's spot and Ricard came and just grabbed a piece of papaya immediately after just eating grilled cheese and chips I wouldn't look at him the same way.

How Shan responded to DeShawn was a big error. But I don't see her as any more of a bully or closeminded as most other players in this season or players in general. I don't think she has done much more insisting that things go her way than Tiffany, Ricard, Evvie, DeShawn, or Danny, for example.

"Maybe less aggressive than Russell?" Really?

59 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Good post.  I fully agree that Shan is a bully through and through.  I’ve been saying this since the JD incident.

If I were the lead pastor of her church, I would fire her.  She pretty much admitted on national TV to millions of viewers that she bullies and/or bamboozles her parishioners.  She pretends to listen to them but in the end she makes sure they do things her way.  If I was a parishioner of hers, I would ask for her resignation.   
 

How can she have any credibility as a pastor after this statement of hers last night?   She doesn’t comfort or guide her parishioners.  She bullies them into doing what she wants.  And for her to freely admit it on TV... that’s just awful.  

It first needs to be said that how she is in the game does not necessarily have anything to do with how she is as a pastor. Yes, even when she's saying in the confessionals "This is how I am as a pastor," that doesn't mean that it is actually so. Admittedly, I probably would not want a pastor who would contemplate going on a game like Survivor that is based on lying and backstabbing. But participating in it doesn't mean they are disqualified from being a pastor, any more than their participating in a game of Werewolf or Grand Theft Auto means that they aren't trustworthy in their real life. 

Also, when we look at what she actually said in the confessional it more boils down to this: Parishioners have a lot of opinions about everything from potlucks to fundraisers. As a pastor, I have to take all that information in and convince everyone that the way I think is the best way is in fact the best way.

That doesn't involve bullying, necessarily. That's just what leadership sometimes is: taking divergent views on a subject and either creating a consensus or explaining to the "losers" why they aren't going to get their way.

But let's assume for the sake of discussion that she does sometimes bully parishioners into doing what she wants. The questions that emerge from that include: 1. How does she bully them? 2. What is she bullying them into doing? 3. How often does she have to bully them?

What you might label as bullying might be something that rarely comes up in the context of the pastor/parishioner relationship because generally the parish may be of a similar mindset. Or it may be something that needs to come up from time to time because sometimes sinners need to be "bullied" into doing the right thing. 

Because let's face it: there are inevitably be times when parishioners are going to steadfastly refuse to straighten up and fly right. A good pastor might be required to do the literal "Come to Jesus" talk with someone about their adultery, drug use, domestic violence, racism or any of the many common sins they might encounter.

Edited November 12, 2021 by Chicago Redshirt

[Never Again]

So my tribe wins reward and we go eat sandwiches, the other tribe back at camp has some papayas.  I get back from reward and want to taste the papaya but get chastised for it because I just had a grilled cheese sandwich.  You couldn’t have the grilled cheese, but I can’t have the papaya. So how did I win a reward? To me, the papayas are for everyone and the grilled cheese was the reward for the winners.  Is it nice for me to have some papaya when you didn’t have grilled cheese? No, not really.  But it’s not WRONG, except in the sense that I don’t want to piss off people that might then vote me out.  But to me the concept of a reward is that “to the victor belongs the spoils”. The team that won should have more to eat than the team that lost.  That’s literally the entire point of that reward challenge.  It shouldn’t be that the losing team is the only one that can eat the papaya because that negates the advantage the winning tribe just earned 

[Lantern7]

I meant to post last night. I watched it because I didn't have to get up early this morning, but I wound up over-napping. I don't think there's a parallel to the series itself, but I am going to relegate the show to Thursday evening viewing because The Challenge: All Stars will now take priority Thursday morning.

I'm still not feeling strongly about any one person because I'm not really invested that much. All I know is that the real antagonist of the season is Probst. Dude had a year to retool the show, and this is what we got. Also, I think Xander is a dumbass. I honestly believe Probst was feeding him hints about the hidden advantage while doing his usual commentary, and that got cut from the episode. "GO! YOU GOTTA DIG DEEP!! DID YOU CHECK THE AREA UNDER THE BENCH! LIKE, MAYBE SOMETHING IS WEDGED IN THERE, AS OPPOSED TO BEING ON THE GROUND!!! GRILLED CHEESE IS ON THE LINE, PEOPLE!!!!"

I don't eat cheese. I probably would've gorged on the chips. Regarding Ricard . . . if he just had that one bit of papaya and no more, then the resulting controversy was unnecessary. I can buy him eating more than one papaya, and the editing made it look like Shan was being a rhymes-with-witch about the whole thing. I can see her getting cast as the bad guy by the editors, most of whom wouldn't be as "woke" as Probst on gender politics. In this one scene, anyway. Shan does seem like she's exhausting. I'm not mad at her in general because -- once again -- I'm detached.

And then Probst wrecks the Immunity Challenge by playing Monty Hall with rice. Yes, it's more interesting than Probst offering a gorge fest for players feeling safe, but it gives him more power to wield and meddle. Once again: Probst Is The Enemy.

More study groups! Wheeeeeee!!!!

I don't think I'll watch "live" until the finale. I know it's messed up that I'd take The Challenge over Survivor, especially since the people on this show aren't actually professional assholes, but here I am.

ETA: Erik took last week off. Apparently, this didn't take him long to complete. I like Chibi Evvy.

 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Lantern7

[SVNBob]

13 hours ago, HurricaneVal said:

Ricard should have read the room and not snitched a piece of papaya.  Even if he was curious about what it tasted like, he should have waited for a better moment. 

 

7 hours ago, blackwing said:

Ricard and his innocent "I just wanted to try the papaya" was a complete ass.  He could have gone and gotten his own papaya.  Or at least he could have asked first before eating it.

This would have taken a lot of the sting out of the situation.

However it wouldn't have taken the sting of the papaya out of Ricard.  In a huge dose of irony, it turns out he's allergic to papaya.  And that was how he found out.

 

6 hours ago, blackwing said:

6 hours ago, TVbitch said:

Shan cries over losing the challenge while everybody comforts her, then tells the guy who is upset they are changing the vote at tribal to stop being a baby. 

Yep.  Yet another example of how she is a huge hypocrite. 

I knew she was a huge hypocrite based on her profession.  (Then again, I am biased.  I live near to the definite religo-grifter Joel Osteen, so I don't hold many religious leaders (well, "Christian" ones mainly) in high regard.  People who actually practice what they preach are cool by me.)

 

[Leeds]

9 hours ago, TVbitch said:

Heather looks like she could be Rachel Hunter's mom. 

 

I'd probably agree with you if I had any idea who Rachel Hunter is.

[SVNBob]

3 minutes ago, Leeds said:

I'd probably agree with you if I had any idea who Rachel Hunter is.

Stacy's Mom.

She's got it going on.

 

(Real answer: Former supermodel and ex-wife of Rod Stewart)

[Leeds]

14 minutes ago, SVNBob said:

(Real answer: Former supermodel and ex-wife of Rod Stewart)

Well that narrows it down . . .

[Lantern7]

2 hours ago, Leeds said:

Well that narrows it down . . .

This should help. I hope.

Xander is good with portmanteaus. I don’t think he’s bright, but I also don’t think someone gave him the word “Betraydar” to use.

Edited November 12, 2021 by Lantern7

[himela]

On 11/11/2021 at 4:43 AM, Grrarrggh said:

I like Shan a lot and find it interesting so many people don't. If she was a man more people would love her game.

That's unfair and I'm tired of hearing that. I hate every person who is cocky and arrogant, despite their gender. If I had to dislike someone's aggressive game I'd dislike a man's aggressive game more because it usually includes misogyny as well.

Shan, above all else, has a hypocrisy as well in my opinion because she uses the fact of her being a pastor to win over people and to justify her shitty behavior. She is not the player Shan, she is the pastor Shan who wants people to love her and listen to her because she is a pastor but not behave like an actual pastor herself.

[himela]

On 11/11/2021 at 8:34 AM, GaT said:

Why aren't they voting Shan out? Seems like an easy choice to me.

The cause.

[Chicago Redshirt]

8 hours ago, Never Again said:

So my tribe wins reward and we go eat sandwiches, the other tribe back at camp has some papayas.  I get back from reward and want to taste the papaya but get chastised for it because I just had a grilled cheese sandwich.  You couldn’t have the grilled cheese, but I can’t have the papaya. So how did I win a reward? To me, the papayas are for everyone and the grilled cheese was the reward for the winners.  Is it nice for me to have some papaya when you didn’t have grilled cheese? No, not really.  But it’s not WRONG, except in the sense that I don’t want to piss off people that might then vote me out.  But to me the concept of a reward is that “to the victor belongs the spoils”. The team that won should have more to eat than the team that lost.  That’s literally the entire point of that reward challenge.  It shouldn’t be that the losing team is the only one that can eat the papaya because that negates the advantage the winning tribe just earned 

You won a reward because grilled cheese and chips>papaya. You got chastised for it because you were a presumptive douche and just grabbed for the papaya assuming that no one would care, when if you had asked "Hey, you found papaya, can I try a little piece?" maybe that would not have rubbed people the wrong way. A large part of the problem IMO was Ricard acted like he was entitled to the papaya. And he simply wasn't.

I don't know if there is a hard and fast rule about food sharing, but it seems to me that the only things that require sharing of most food is common courtesy and not wanting to alienate potential voters. If Naseer wanted to say, "This papaya is only to be shared between me, Shan and Liana and the rest of you can go find your own papaya" he could.  There's no inherent agreement that food (other than that provided by production) has to be shared. And we certainly have seen people in Survivor over the years upset that when Survivors take more than their share. 

The fact that it could and did piss off people is what makes it wrong for Ricard to take the papaya without asking. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

Taking comments about Shan to her thread.

[AncientNewbie]

My main takeaway this week is that Naseer's kid is going to be a real challenge for the Mariano girls on Children of Survivors Survivor. 

I didn't think it was as solid as last week, but I enjoyed it, interpersonal drama and all. The cracks seem to be forming (or we're all being played by contestants and editors) and this is where it gets interesting for me. 

[Birnam Wood]

Has Rupert weighed in on Papayagate yet? Has a violation of banana etiquette occurred?

[KeithJ]

Where are the Ponderosa videos officially released?  I see a couple uploads of Tiffany's on YouTube but they're not from any official accounts.  I checked cbs.com and Paramount Plus and don't see them there.

[blackwing]

I am way curious about what would have happened if some had sat out and got the individual portion of rice.  Would they have cooked it themselves and ate it themselves, or would they have shared?  What if that person didn't know how to light a fire.  Would the firestarter negotiate with that person for some of the rice?

10 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

I'm still not feeling strongly about any one person because I'm not really invested that much. All I know is that the real antagonist of the season is Probst. Dude had a year to retool the show, and this is what we got. Also, I think Xander is a dumbass. I honestly believe Probst was feeding him hints about the hidden advantage, and that got cut from the episode. "GO! YOU GOTTA DIG DEEP!! DID YOU CHECK THE AREA UNDER THE BENCH! LIKE, MAYBE SOMETHING IS WEDGED IN THERE, AS OPPOSED TO BEING ON THE GROUND!!! GRILLED CHEESE IS ON THE LINE, PEOPLE!!!!"

I have thought that Jeffy has been an antagonist for years.  He makes the show all about him.  I'm so tired of his running commentary during the challenges.  Yes, there has to be some discussion and play by play, but his added comments ("And Yase is completely out of it, this is the worst team that has ever played this game") just really aren't necessary.  

I particularly cannot stand the "I've got a secret and I'm gonna share with you" direct talks to the camera this season.  They could have easily just had a highlighted circle on the clue under the bench like they did in the past.  We didn't need those extra few moments of Jeffy desperate for attention and trying to be all everyday folksy "I'm a fan of the game just like you" with the viewers.

4 hours ago, Leeds said:

I'd probably agree with you if I had any idea who Rachel Hunter is.

Damn... now I feel even older than I already am... :(   I remember seeing Rod Stewart in person in a restaurant in Chicago about 20 years ago and patrons were going nuts while he was playing it cool.  This was around 2000 when he was obviously years removed from the height of his fame in the 70s and 80s, and people were still agog that he was in the room.  Now apparently he must be in the "who dat" category with the youngsters!

[peachmangosteen]

32 minutes ago, KeithJ said:

Where are the Ponderosa videos officially released?  I see a couple uploads of Tiffany's on YouTube but they're not from any official accounts.  I checked cbs.com and Paramount Plus and don't see them there.

They used to be on the SurvivorOnCBS youtube but I don't see Tiffany's there. Where did you find them on youtube?

[KeithJ]

2 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

They used to be on the SurvivorOnCBS youtube but I don't see Tiffany's there. Where did you find them on youtube?

 

Just searched for it.

[North of Eden]

Man, this discount, knock off version of The Cookout is going to flame out sooner rather than later! Seriously it looks like Deshawn has an issue with strong women of color and can't handle it.

Still these last few episodes have been fun with the departure of the old excuse "It's what the tribe wants" to justify boring block voting.

[Lamima]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

They used to be on the SurvivorOnCBS youtube but I don't see Tiffany's there. Where did you find them on youtube?

I started a Ponderosa thread. Found it on u tube. That's always where I watch them.

[blackwing]

34 minutes ago, North of Eden said:

Man, this discount, knock off version of The Cookout is going to flame out sooner rather than later! Seriously it looks like Deshawn has an issue with strong women of color and can't handle it.

Nothing he has said has given me the impression that he has an issue with strong women of any colour.  He doesn't like Erika because Erika was gunning for his ally Sydney (and personally I find the thought of characterising Erika as a "strong woman" to be funny... she is about as useless as they come).  He doesn't like Shan because Shan is a bully and a tyrant.  Her way is always the correct way.

Unless he comes out and says something to the effect of "I don't like it when a POC woman tells me what to do", I'd say the assertion that he has general issues with strong minority women is a bit bold.

It looks rather to me that Shan has an issue with anyone who doesn't obey her, and she can't handle it.

[CountryGirl]

I can't believe I'm typing this, but I am bummed that Tiffany is gone.

But I am thrilled that Xander is still there and did not fall for Ricard's "totally not obvious at all" ploy to get him to waste his idol.

I am another who doesn't see the foursome of Shan, Liana, Deshawn and Danny lasting as there is too much friction between Deshawn and Shan. Both came off badly in their spats. He also bugged me with his "how very dare they!" venting about Xander, Tiffany, and Evvie scrambling. They are allowed to play the game, too. That has always been a pet peeve of mine when a player (or players) in the majority act as if it's a personal affront for anyone on the bottom doing anything besides lying down and accepting their personal pecking order. So you had some votes come your way. Get over it.

Ricard eating the papaya after having a big lunch with real food was such a Ricard thing to do. How ironic that he's allergic.

[Hanahope]

Xander had the right idea to look for an advantage on the bench.  it was hard to tell if he looked very hard, he was only shown looking in the most obvious places, like maybe he didn't want the others to see him looking.  he should have looked a bit harder, given the advantage was hidden a lot better this time.  i wonder if they will re-hide the advantage elsewhere.

Ricard could take a piece of papaya, but he probably should have had a bit more social awareness to not do so.

i'm really annoyed at the whispered TC.  

at least Tiffany doesn't seem to be bitter and is happy to have made jury.  i was so-so on her early on, but she did have some good gut feelings.  she should have tried to get in more with the majority, if she could.

DeShawn is clearly anti-Shan and is going to lead the group against her, or at least will try.  so far, Shan seems to be getting her way with the majority, but there will be some who rebel against her.  

[Chicago Redshirt]

32 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Nothing he has said has given me the impression that he has an issue with strong women of any colour.  He doesn't like Erika because Erika was gunning for his ally Sydney (and personally I find the thought of characterising Erika as a "strong woman" to be funny... she is about as useless as they come).  He doesn't like Shan because Shan is a bully and a tyrant.  Her way is always the correct way.

Unless he comes out and says something to the effect of "I don't like it when a POC woman tells me what to do", I'd say the assertion that he has general issues with strong minority women is a bit bold.

It looks rather to me that Shan has an issue with anyone who doesn't obey her, and she can't handle it.

There are multiple ways to look at this interaction between Shan and DeShawn. 

Let's recap what happened with some paraphrasing just so we can remember what we're talking about:

Danny: is at first talking to Shan only: What if we split Tiffany and Naseer?

Shan: starts to make the point that Xander is more dangerous, a bigger question mark, and they don't know what Yellow is doing.

Danny: I don't want us to be sitting at the end and have Naseer waving it in our face that we should have gotten rid of him.

It's at this point that DeShawn walks in.

Danny explains to DeShawn that he has proposed a split between Naseer and Tiffany.

DeShawn: I love it. After the next vote, Naseer is going to know he's on the chopping block. Right now he feels comfortable.

Shan: You guys, Xander is a threat...

DeShawn (interrupting her): They're both threats

Shan: Xander is a bigger threat than Naseer

DeShawn (interrupting her again): I don't think you know that.

Shan: Xander working with Tiffany and Evvie is a bigger threat, plus he has both the idol and an extra vote.

Liana walks up, but we go to a confessional in which DeShawn says he's quite pissed at Shan and characterizes things that Shan "shut it down" when they mentioned Naseer's name and how "that's not going to work for me, Miss Ma'am. You need to listen to what I have to say." 

So to take a pause from what happened: At no point in what was shown to us did Shan tell DeShawn or Danny, "It's my way or the highway," not listen to them, interrupt them or any of that. They made their points, she made her points. I don't think Shan was loud, rude or disrespectful in the least toward DeShawn. If anything, it was DeShawn who wasn't being fair to what Shan was saying by interrupting her twice. 

Shan goes on to make the point that Naseer is a number in their pocket, while Xander is not and that Naseer will make it easier to get the four of them to the end. 

[I admit, part of my take about this is might be colored by it seeming to me that Shan has the way stronger side of this argument. It is better to get Xander out sooner than Naseer because they can count on Naseer for now, Xander has both the idol and the extra vote, and Xander has a greater ability to pull people over to his side than Naseer does. Although Naseer is a threat, they should be able to get rid of him fairly easily with the AAA and Ricard at some point.]

DeShawn continues in his confessional to say that if it keeps up, he may think that Shan's got to go.

Then DeShawn and Shan have their conversation. 

DeShawn: We got to communicate better because I don't do well when people tell me what to do and you're not absorbing my opinon

Shan: Help me understand. When did you feel like I was not absorbing your opinion

DeShawn: When I came up to the beach and said possibly -- just possibly -- Naseer, it was like, "No." I need to know you're going to listen to my opinion.

Shan: I do want to hear you and your voice does matter to me, so I will listen to you more. 

I think Shan is genuine when she talks about how she needs help to understand how DeShawn did not feel heard.

Again, there may be more to what is going on, but it seems like DeShawn's reaction to what Shan said and did is way overblown. Could that because he has an issue with "Miss Ma'am" daring to not listen to him sufficiently? Yes, IMO.

[HurricaneVal]

I agree with all that.  I'm no Shan fan, and I felt that her attempts to improve communication with DeShawn were a bit patronizing and "counselor handling difficult person" in character.  But I also feel that DeShawn really showed his ass with that whole conversation.  When Shan entered in the conversation with DeShawn and Danny, trying to point out the threat that Xander presents, that's all it was, trying to present another option and get the discussion going on which threat needs to go first.  But DeShawn did NOT take that well at all. 

I do like that Shan is playing hard and trying hard.  I just don't like how emotionally manipulative she is all while professing to be cool and calculated.

[PokerNerd]

Let's not overreact and burn down Shan's church if she isn't fired immediately. You can tell the starvation, sleep deprivation and general paranoia of being in the game are getting to her.

Before the merge, her attitude in confessionals were much more playful and upbeat. The game is getting intense and she's running into some people she that put up some resistance for the first time. I think she is a person with a lot of charm who's used to getting her way. It reminds me when Ted Lasso first meets Dr Sharon who is the first character to be unimpressed. The combination of the higher degree of difficulty and the extended time in little food are making her stumble, but I do think she's savvy enough about interpersonal skills to recover and mend fences.

[Hera]

From what we were shown, I didn't see anything offensive in Shan's behavior towards Deshawn and Danny until Shan did the transparent, "I want to hear you out so I can learn" thing to Deshawn, but he was already upset with her at that point. To me, it looked like they had a disagreement about who to vote out, Shan articulated her arguments for Xander and Deshawn and Danny failed to present any equally strong reasons for voting out Naseer. It's not that Shan wasn't listening, it's that she wasn't agreeing with them, and rightly so, in my opinion.

2 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I admit, part of my take about this is might be colored by it seeming to me that Shan has the way stronger side of this argument.

I definitely have this same bias, along with previous experience of having an ex equate my not agreeing with him to my not listening to him—he claimed that the fact I had rebuttals to his arguments was proof that I wasn't listening, but instead was thinking up what to say next while he was talking. 🙄 So I am aware that some people use "you're not listening to me because you're not agreeing with me" as a manipulative tactic to try to quash dissent.

A more generous reading is that their individual games were at cross-purposes. Shan wants to make sure that Yellow are split up so that Liana has no choice but to stick with her and also to get rid of Xander who holds the same advantages she does; Danny and Deshawn have their Day 1 grudge against Naseer and are worried he might make a move against them specifically and want to blindside him before he has a chance to do that or thinks to use his idol to save himself.

[Cornhusker12]

On 11/11/2021 at 2:35 PM, Andyourlittledog2 said:

Folks have been talking about Jeff the Omniscient but I've been thinking of Jeff the Apostle.  He's been doing this for seasons now but never more than this one: talking about Survivor like it's a religion beyond just any game. It is supposed to enlighten you, tell you about yourself and others and lift you up and change your life, make you a better person, there is nothing like it anywhere, you are the elect few that are allowed to play the game, etc. He has this glow of the true believer, impassioned apostle of Survivor and he is it's center, it's all knowing head. It's just weird is what I'm saying. He's become manic about it, talking to us like we are part of the cult or he wants us to be. I'm not saying he actually thinks about it being a real religion, but he seems to be imbuing it with religious overtones to a much greater degree than in seasons past. And he sounds crazy.

Hahaha this is absolutely spot on, and I find it hilarious. He's a maniac this season.

Edited November 12, 2021 by Cornhusker12

[peachmangosteen]

6 hours ago, Lamima said:

I started a Ponderosa thread. Found it on u tube. That's always where I watch them.

But it's just on some random youtube, not the official CBS one. I'm just confused by that lol.

[Nashville]

On 11/11/2021 at 8:34 AM, JudyObscure said:

ETA: I found her church, it's  Emmanuel Brinklow Seventh  Day Adventist in Maryland (Washington D.C. area.)  I can't read much of their site since I'm not on Facebook but I could find 2 pastors listed, not her, and no mention of her anywhere else.  Maybe she's a children's pastor?

I may be mistaken, but I seem to recall some reference (can’t remember from where) to Shan being a youth pastor.

 

On 11/11/2021 at 10:18 PM, Never Again said:

So my tribe wins reward and we go eat sandwiches, the other tribe back at camp has some papayas.

The reward winners were given sandwiches, the others went out and gathered papaya themselves - BIG difference. 

Quote

 I get back from reward and want to taste the papaya but get chastised for it because I just had a grilled cheese sandwich.  You couldn’t have the grilled cheese, but I can’t have the papaya.

Who said you can’t have papaya?  You’re perfectly free to stuff yourself with all the papaya you want.  All you have to do is go out and get it, same as the reward losers did.

 

Quote

So how did I win a reward?

Looking at the inverse: So how did your reward entitle you to freely benefit from the exertions of others?

 

Quote

To me, the papayas are for everyone and the grilled cheese was the reward for the winners.  Is it nice for me to have some papaya when you didn’t have grilled cheese? No, not really.  But it’s not WRONG, except in the sense that I don’t want to piss off people that might then vote me out.  But to me the concept of a reward is that “to the victor belongs the spoils”. The team that won should have more to eat than the team that lost.  That’s literally the entire point of that reward challenge.  It shouldn’t be that the losing team is the only one that can eat the papaya because that negates the advantage the winning tribe just earned 

So in your mind, the only way the reward would be sufficiently “rewardy” is if the losers are required to just sit there doing nothing - and more significantly, EATING nothing - while the winners enjoy their reward?  Pardon my French, but that’s fucked up; a reward for the winners doesn’t automatically translate to a punishment for the losers unless such was specifically stated in the rules of the challenge.

Here’s the thing: the papayas around the camp are for everyone, Ricard included; however, that doesn’t translate to Ricard or anybody else being automatically entitled to papaya - or any other foodstuff in camp, for that matter - which was gathered by someone else. When someone gathers food, it’s theirs to do with as they wish; they can eat it all by themselves, or share it with whomever they choose. Sharing food with the rest of camp is generally considered a nice thing to do - not to mention strategically beneficial - but it has never been a requirement.

While the winners were off enjoying their just rewards and stuffing themselves with grilled cheese, Naseer didn’t sit around feeling sorry for himself; he got off his butt and expended the effort and calories required to gather the papaya.  Those papaya were Naseer’s, and he chose to share them with the other reward losers.  Ricard was not part of that group - so for Ricard to just stroll into camp, see food gathered by another, and just grab some without so much as a “May I?” was both greedy and presumptuous in the extreme.  IMHO Riccy was lucky to get off with nothing more than a handslap - and for him to complain afterwards about being chastised…?  There’s a reason it’s called “bitching”, yaknow.

And lest anybody thinks this concept of food ownership was some impossibly arcane bit Ricard couldn’t possibly be expected to know, I’ll simply say this: how many OTHER reward winners did you see walk into camp and immediately try to glom onto the losers’ papaya?  😉

 

On 11/12/2021 at 1:22 AM, SVNBob said:

However it wouldn't have taken the sting of the papaya out of Ricard.  In a huge dose of irony, it turns out he's allergic to papaya.  And that was how he found out.

Karma papaya?  Who knew?  🤣

Edited November 13, 2021 by Nashville
Typo

[Fretful]

On 11/12/2021 at 9:57 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

There are multiple ways to look at this interaction between Shan and DeShawn. 

Let's recap what happened with some paraphrasing just so we can remember what we're talking about:

Danny: is at first talking to Shan only: What if we split Tiffany and Naseer?

Shan: starts to make the point that Xander is more dangerous, a bigger question mark, and they don't know what Yellow is doing.

Danny: I don't want us to be sitting at the end and have Naseer waving it in our face that we should have gotten rid of him.

It's at this point that DeShawn walks in.

Danny explains to DeShawn that he has proposed a split between Naseer and Tiffany.

DeShawn: I love it. After the next vote, Naseer is going to know he's on the chopping block. Right now he feels comfortable.

Shan: You guys, Xander is a threat...

DeShawn (interrupting her): They're both threats

Shan: Xander is a bigger threat than Naseer

DeShawn (interrupting her again): I don't think you know that.

Shan: Xander working with Tiffany and Evvie is a bigger threat, plus he has both the idol and an extra vote.

Liana walks up, but we go to a confessional in which DeShawn says he's quite pissed at Shan and characterizes things that Shan "shut it down" when they mentioned Naseer's name and how "that's not going to work for me, Miss Ma'am. You need to listen to what I have to say." 

So to take a pause from what happened: At no point in what was shown to us did Shan tell DeShawn or Danny, "It's my way or the highway," not listen to them, interrupt them or any of that. They made their points, she made her points. I don't think Shan was loud, rude or disrespectful in the least toward DeShawn. If anything, it was DeShawn who wasn't being fair to what Shan was saying by interrupting her twice. 

Shan goes on to make the point that Naseer is a number in their pocket, while Xander is not and that Naseer will make it easier to get the four of them to the end. 

[I admit, part of my take about this is might be colored by it seeming to me that Shan has the way stronger side of this argument. It is better to get Xander out sooner than Naseer because they can count on Naseer for now, Xander has both the idol and the extra vote, and Xander has a greater ability to pull people over to his side than Naseer does. Although Naseer is a threat, they should be able to get rid of him fairly easily with the AAA and Ricard at some point.]

DeShawn continues in his confessional to say that if it keeps up, he may think that Shan's got to go.

Then DeShawn and Shan have their conversation. 

DeShawn: We got to communicate better because I don't do well when people tell me what to do and you're not absorbing my opinon

Shan: Help me understand. When did you feel like I was not absorbing your opinion

DeShawn: When I came up to the beach and said possibly -- just possibly -- Naseer, it was like, "No." I need to know you're going to listen to my opinion.

Shan: I do want to hear you and your voice does matter to me, so I will listen to you more. 

I think Shan is genuine when she talks about how she needs help to understand how DeShawn did not feel heard.

Again, there may be more to what is going on, but it seems like DeShawn's reaction to what Shan said and did is way overblown. Could that because he has an issue with "Miss Ma'am" daring to not listen to him sufficiently? Yes, IMO.

Count me in as one of the people who think that DeShawn was very much in the wrong here.  I think it's just the way Shan sometimes comes off.  He also WAS acting like a baby a tribal.  I didn't see where Shan was ordering him to vote for Heather- she suggested it and he got all put out.  When she tried to approach him, he doubled down.  

I remember so long ago on Cook Islands, when the Manihiku tribe was imploding and someone (maybe Nate) said the problem was that they needed a leader, but African Americans in general don't like being told what to do (paraphrasing).  So, possibly, that comes int the equation a bit for DeShawn.

[Nashville]

Purely MHO but I think the reason Shan and DeShawn butted heads so spectacularly is because they’re both over-the-top control freaks; Shan just has a little more polish on her act than DeShawn does. It’s not a gender thing, it’s an asshole thing.

[ProfCrash]

8 hours ago, Nashville said:

Purely MHO but I think the reason Shan and DeShawn butted heads so spectacularly is because they’re both over-the-top control freaks; Shan just has a little more polish on her act than DeShawn does. It’s not a gender thing, it’s an asshole thing.

This. Both of them want to be seen as the person making moves and being in charge. All the while, Danny and Ricard are chilling behind them working on their pitch that they were a part of a duo and were fine with letting the other person put their neck out publicly while they were jointly making decisions. And the thing is, I think everyone knows that Shan and Ricard and DeShawn and Danny are working together so I don't think it is a hard sell.

We have not seen DeShawn be as aggressive with Danny as Shan has been with Ricard. That could be because Shan and Ricard have been in the tribal pressure cooker the entire game and the level of anxiety that she can tolerate is different then DeShawn.It could also be that Danny has a chill vibe that comes from a lot of experience in game induced pressure situations and screams "Sure, bring that shit at me and I will shut it down in 5 seconds flat."

I have never appreciated the control freaks in this game, and that includes Boston Rob and Tony and Dan (from Mike H's season, hell Mike's game into the point that he screwed up and ended up pissing off Dan) and the others who want to dictate how everyone should play. If they manage to convince people play their game then they deserve to win, I just don't like it. It is more that I am baffled that the other players are willing to allow someone else to control their game. It is lazy on their part and normally the control freak is this smug personality that gloats in their talking heads.

And then you have the control freaks who are bullies, like Russell, who are controlling things and talking all sorts of nasty shit in their talking heads. I love the Sandra's who see right through Russell, tell Russell that he is an asshole to his face and burn his hat, tell others Russell's game, and then shrugs her shoulders when Rupert and Colby ignore everything she is telling them and destroy their own game. Sandra knew she was going to win because she knew what she had done to warn the others and she knew that her own social game was strong. Parvati knew that Sandra was going to win because Parvati knew that Russell was a bully, control freak with a crap social game. That was my favorite season.

Shan falls far more into bullying game play then controlling. There is no subtlety to what she is doing. She treated JD the same way Tom treated the dude who finished third because he felt guilty for playing the game and not Tom's version of "honorable", Ian I think. Watching people who are granted respect and authority because of their jobs, Fireman and Pastor, use those positions as emotional manipulation to win a game like Survivor grosses me out. She might not be being an asshole in her talking heads, she is no where near as disgusting a person as Russell is, but the level of manipulation she is willing to use to advance her game is gross. And the fact that she is doing so knowingly, while putting it to music, is even worse.

DeShawn is not all that smooth in his game play either but we have seen less of him because Blue was winning. DeShawn and Shan are butting heads because they both want to be the person controlling the game and manipulating the others. The difference is that Shan seems to think she can find a way to control DeShawn and I think DeShawn understands that he cannot control Shan.

 

[peachmangosteen]

45 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

Watching people who are granted respect and authority because of their jobs, Fireman and Pastor, use those positions as emotional manipulation to win a game like Survivor grosses me out.

This. It's really nasty.

[Fretful]

On 11/11/2021 at 4:29 PM, TVbitch said:

Heather looks like she could be Rachel Hunter's mom. 

 

They are the same age.

[Wonderlad71]

 

[blackwing]

9 hours ago, Wonderlad71 said:

 

She looks so different with the straight hair and the makeup.  This was an interesting interview.  She still seems like she can't let things go, even months later she is rehashing and doing the play by play of why people voted the way they did.  But I suppose that is understandable.  It's interesting how much she won me over the last several weeks.  I hated her in the beginning and wanted her out, but as Yellow coalesced, I was rooting for her.  She's way more strategic than I had given her credit for.  I could easily see her being asked back to play on some kind of Second Chances season.

She obviously knows who is in the final tribal but I thought it was interesting that she talked about the power struggle between Shan and Deshawn and said who she thinks was in control at least for this past tribal council. 

On 11/15/2021 at 7:55 AM, ProfCrash said:

Shan falls far more into bullying game play then controlling. There is no subtlety to what she is doing. She treated JD the same way Tom treated the dude who finished third because he felt guilty for playing the game and not Tom's version of "honorable", Ian I think. Watching people who are granted respect and authority because of their jobs, Fireman and Pastor, use those positions as emotional manipulation to win a game like Survivor grosses me out. She might not be being an asshole in her talking heads, she is no where near as disgusting a person as Russell is, but the level of manipulation she is willing to use to advance her game is gross. And the fact that she is doing so knowingly, while putting it to music, is even worse.

DeShawn is not all that smooth in his game play either but we have seen less of him because Blue was winning. DeShawn and Shan are butting heads because they both want to be the person controlling the game and manipulating the others. The difference is that Shan seems to think she can find a way to control DeShawn and I think DeShawn understands that he cannot control Shan.

 

Yep.  I am surprised that even though this show has aired for over twenty years and you would think that people have to know what it takes to win the game and what people are willing to say to win the game, that some still fall for the manipulation.  I wish there was a way to win the game without manipulating people's emotions.  It's not just the ones taking advantage of their noble occupations (Shan the pastor, Tom the fireman, Jeremy the fireman, Ben the PTSD Marine)... it's the ones that bring in their personal situations in final tribal council to win and act like they didn't bring it up in an effort to win.  Jeremy "SOB SOB SOB and my wife is SOB pregnant!!!"  Won with unanimous vote.  Adam "SOB SOB SOB I didn't want to tell anyone but SOB my mom is dying!"  Won with unanimous vote.

[ProfCrash]

1 minute ago, blackwing said:

She looks so different with the straight hair and the makeup.  This was an interesting interview.  She still seems like she can't let things go, even months later she is rehashing and doing the play by play of why people voted the way they did.  But I suppose that is understandable.  It's interesting how much she won me over the last several weeks.  I hated her in the beginning and wanted her out, but as Yellow coalesced, I was rooting for her.  She's way more strategic than I had given her credit for.  I could easily see her being asked back to play on some kind of Second Chances season.

She obviously knows who is in the final tribal but I thought it was interesting that she talked about the power struggle between Shan and Deshawn and said who she thinks was in control at least for this past tribal council. 

Yep.  I am surprised that even though this show has aired for over twenty years and you would think that people have to know what it takes to win the game and what people are willing to say to win the game, that some still fall for the manipulation.  I wish there was a way to win the game without manipulating people's emotions.  It's not just the ones taking advantage of their noble occupations (Shan the pastor, Tom the fireman, Jeremy the fireman, Ben the PTSD Marine)... it's the ones that bring in their personal situations in final tribal council to win and act like they didn't bring it up in an effort to win.  Jeremy "SOB SOB SOB and my wife is SOB pregnant!!!"  Won with unanimous vote.  Adam "SOB SOB SOB I didn't want to tell anyone but SOB my mom is dying!"  Won with unanimous vote.

I can't watch the interview at work but the interviews after the episode are asking people about what happened in the game. I think it is less not letting it go but being asked to relive what happened. And she is not wrong, at least in the interviews that I read and her Ponderosa video. There are three people with idols and two of those people have advantages but they were not targeted. There is no reason that Xander was not the target of the vote with the other votes being put on Tiffany if Xander played his idol. The over all game play by the majority was stupid.

Jeremy played a great game and earned his win. At least, I think he earned it. Jeremy won without bullying and without being an asshole. He played a solid game that was well balanced.

But yeah Adam was annoying. He was playing with peoples emotions.

Realistically, the players out there have a good idea about what backstories are going to help people at final tribal. Everyone was talking about Ben's Marine Corp background. And they knew about the PTSD because he was struggling with certain noises and activities at camp. He couldn't hide that. That was not intentional manipulation but his illness showing itself in real life.

Ben played an interesting game and was in a good place to win even though he was not my choice. The Marine Corp/PTSD played a role but he did a lot to put himself in that position.

[Never Again]

On 11/13/2021 at 5:49 PM, Nashville said:

On 11/11/2021 at 11:18 PM, Never Again said:

So my tribe wins reward and we go eat sandwiches, the other tribe back at camp has some papayas.

The reward winners were given sandwiches, the others went out and gathered papaya themselves - BIG difference. 
 

no, the reward winners EARNED the sandwiches by winning the challenge.  Just like the losing tribe attempted to do as well, but unfortunately for them they were unable to earn them 

On 11/13/2021 at 5:49 PM, Nashville said:

Quote

 I get back from reward and want to taste the papaya but get chastised for it because I just had a grilled cheese sandwich.  You couldn’t have the grilled cheese, but I can’t have the papaya.

Who said you can’t have papaya?  You’re perfectly free to stuff yourself with all the papaya you want.  All you have to do is go out and get it, same as the reward losers did.

not the case in Survivor, ever. While I can recall on one hand a few people who hid food, I need both hands and all my toes to recall people shimmying up trees for fruit, or throwing things trying to knock down coconuts, or fishing, or catching small animals, or killing the chickens, and then sharing them with the others in camp.

On 11/13/2021 at 5:49 PM, Nashville said:

 

Quote

So how did I win a reward?

Looking at the inverse: So how did your reward entitle you to freely benefit from the exertions of others?

 

see above.  Food caught at camp is generally shared.  Food won at reward is not. 
 

On 11/13/2021 at 5:49 PM, Nashville said:

Quote

To me, the papayas are for everyone and the grilled cheese was the reward for the winners.  Is it nice for me to have some papaya when you didn’t have grilled cheese? No, not really.  But it’s not WRONG, except in the sense that I don’t want to piss off people that might then vote me out.  But to me the concept of a reward is that “to the victor belongs the spoils”. The team that won should have more to eat than the team that lost.  That’s literally the entire point of that reward challenge.  It shouldn’t be that the losing team is the only one that can eat the papaya because that negates the advantage the winning tribe just earned 

Expand  

So in your mind, the only way the reward would be sufficiently “rewardy” is if the losers are required to just sit there doing nothing - and more significantly, EATING nothing - while the winners enjoy their reward?  Pardon my French, but that’s fucked up; a reward for the winners doesn’t automatically translate to a punishment for the losers unless such was specifically stated in the rules of the challenge.

😉

um, yes? That has always been how rewards are handled.  Jeff even specifically said “winners your grilled cheese sandwiches are waiting for you back at camp, losers I got nothing for you but the smell of grilled cheese sandwiches”

i know you said a lot more of the same, but it’s a busy week and so I’ll stop here… The point to me is that I has always been how rewards are handled. You don’t share them.  How many times have we seen contestants go crazy watching others eat, whether at a reward or an auction?   

I can tell you this, if I’m there and I find out I can eat just as much by exerting some minor effort to get a papaya as I would by knocking myself out in a tough challenge for a sandwich, trust me I will put little effort into the challenge, forgo the reward, eat what’s available in camp, and save my energy for the immunity challenge.  Hopefully I can put on a good enough show so no one notices I took a dive

[blackwing]

21 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

Jeremy played a great game and earned his win. At least, I think he earned it. Jeremy won without bullying and without being an asshole. He played a solid game that was well balanced.

But yeah Adam was annoying. He was playing with peoples emotions.

Realistically, the players out there have a good idea about what backstories are going to help people at final tribal. Everyone was talking about Ben's Marine Corp background. And they knew about the PTSD because he was struggling with certain noises and activities at camp. He couldn't hide that. That was not intentional manipulation but his illness showing itself in real life.

Ben played an interesting game and was in a good place to win even though he was not my choice. The Marine Corp/PTSD played a role but he did a lot to put himself in that position.

That's what I found annoying about Jeremy's sobbing reveal that his wife was pregnant... he was going to win the game anyways, he played a great game.  Some would say he didn't tell everyone about the pregnancy to manipulate them... but the optics don't look good, it's final tribal council, you pull out all the stops, and he made people that much more wanting him to win perhaps because his wife was pregnant.  I felt like Spencer deserved some votes, and he may have gotten them but the pregnancy reveal pushed it into a unanimous vote.

I am always going to believe that Ben the Marine's win was brought about by producer manipulation.  He had a decent alliance and he had his marine background which made people view him positively, but he also magically found idol after idol.  And don't even get me started about that ridiculous newly introduced fire-making challenge, which Jeffy admitted was designed to save a strong player who might have traditionally gotten voted out in the #4 spot.  In the final tribal, I recall both he and Chrissy being criticised for their poor social game, but he did talk about his PTSD and his Marine-ness which probably helped him.  I know many viewers thought Chrissy deserved to win that season.

13 hours ago, Never Again said:

I can tell you this, if I’m there and I find out I can eat just as much by exerting some minor effort to get a papaya as I would by knocking myself out in a tough challenge for a sandwich, trust me I will put little effort into the challenge, forgo the reward, eat what’s available in camp, and save my energy for the immunity challenge.  Hopefully I can put on a good enough show so no one notices I took a dive

I highly doubt many contestants would think this way... we only see a sliver of their time on the island.  There are countless hours upon hours of sitting around bored with not a whole lot to do.  A reward represents not only the food or activity reward, but a chance to break from that boredom.  Plus sometimes there are hidden advantages to be found at the reward.  And even if they had been given a choice... you can either have grilled cheese or papaya... I really don't know if anyone would choose papaya.  Grilled cheese has protein and carbs which is important to help you keep up your strength.  Plus there would likely be some side dishes and beverages, a great change from the usual water.  Papaya gives you some fiber and maybe some vitamins... but it can also make you poop, perhaps with disastrous diarrheatic results if you're not used to it.

The way I see it has nothing to do with "reward food is for the winners, food found on the island is for everyone, so the winners should have been entitled to both".  It's about basic common courtesy.  The winners got to have their grilled cheese feast.  The losers found three papayas for the five of them.  They are hungry and haven't really eaten.  They find some papayas and are in the midst of cooking them but didn't eat cook and eat fast enough, so the winners come back and say "oh thanks for cooking dinner for everyone, that's communal food, we all deserve our portion".  That sounds pretty crappy.

You would think that most people should know that if you just ate a grilled cheese feast, and there are others who are starving, then let the ones who are starving eat the three papayas.  The evidence to me is that none of the other winners except for Ricard "just wanted to try the papaya".  They had the grace enough to let the losers eat it.

Where there were three papayas, there might be more.  If I was a winner, I would have said, that looks good, let's try to find some more for next time because I want to see what it tastes like.

[ProfCrash]

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

That's what I found annoying about Jeremy's sobbing reveal that his wife was pregnant... he was going to win the game anyways, he played a great game.  Some would say he didn't tell everyone about the pregnancy to manipulate them... but the optics don't look good, it's final tribal council, you pull out all the stops, and he made people that much more wanting him to win perhaps because his wife was pregnant.  I felt like Spencer deserved some votes, and he may have gotten them but the pregnancy reveal pushed it into a unanimous vote.

I am always going to believe that Ben the Marine's win was brought about by producer manipulation.  He had a decent alliance and he had his marine background which made people view him positively, but he also magically found idol after idol.  And don't even get me started about that ridiculous newly introduced fire-making challenge, which Jeffy admitted was designed to save a strong player who might have traditionally gotten voted out in the #4 spot.  In the final tribal, I recall both he and Chrissy being criticised for their poor social game, but he did talk about his PTSD and his Marine-ness which probably helped him.  I know many viewers thought Chrissy deserved to win that season.

I thought Chrissy should win and would have won except for the fire challenge. That remains bullshit. Ben lost that immunity challenge and should have been voted out. It was crap. Still dislike the fire challenge but at least you can plan for it.

[Never Again]

6 hours ago, blackwing said:

20 hours ago, Never Again said:

can tell you this, if I’m there and I find out I can eat just as much by exerting some minor effort to get a papaya as I would by knocking myself out in a tough challenge for a sandwich, trust me I will put little effort into the challenge, forgo the reward, eat what’s available in camp, and save my energy for the immunity challenge.  Hopefully I can put on a good enough show so no one notices I took a dive

I highly doubt many contestants would think this way... we only see a sliver of their time on the island.  There are countless hours upon hours of sitting around bored with not a whole lot to do.  A reward represents not only the food or activity reward, but a chance to break from that boredom.  Plus sometimes there are hidden advantages to be found at the reward. 
 

I would still play in the reward challenge but as I said I would put little effort in and  reserve my energy for immunity.  I would still be playing, therefore if any advantages are there I can find them too, and get a break from the boredom as well.  I would just not find the food itself “worth playing for” if I can eat something else back at camp and not allow the winners to eat it

 

6 hours ago, blackwing said:

 

And even if they had been given a choice... you can either have grilled cheese or papaya... I really don't know if anyone would choose papaya.  Grilled cheese has protein and carbs which is important to help you keep up your strength.  Plus there would likely be some side dishes and beverages, a great change from the usual water.  Papaya gives you some fiber and maybe some vitamins... but it can also make you poop, perhaps with disastrous diarrheatic results if you're not used to it.

 

i don’t know, man, I’ve seen the contestants cook and eat rat. Not even for food challenges but just because they were starving.  I doubt they would turn their noses up at papaya.  Personally I’d rather have the fruit but yes I would expect most people want the grilled cheese.

6 hours ago, blackwing said:

The way I see it has nothing to do with "reward food is for the winners, food found on the island is for everyone, so the winners should have been entitled to both".  It's about basic common courtesy.  The winners got to have their grilled cheese feast.  The losers found three papayas for the five of them.  They are hungry and haven't really eaten.  They find some papayas and are in the midst of cooking them but didn't eat cook and eat fast enough, so the winners come back and say "oh thanks for cooking dinner for everyone, that's communal food, we all deserve our portion".  That sounds pretty crappy.

You would think that most people should know that if you just ate a grilled cheese feast, and there are others who are starving, then let the ones who are starving eat the three papayas.  The evidence to me is that none of the other winners except for Ricard "just wanted to try the papaya".  They had the grace enough to let the losers eat it.

Where there were three papayas, there might be more.  If I was a winner, I would have said, that looks good, let's try to find some more for next time because I want to see what it tastes like.

Agree to disagree.  My whole family disagrees with me but this is how I see it 

[mythoughtis]

On the food debate.  Ricard should have kept his hands to himself.  Since he’s never had papaya up until now, then that means the groups hasn’t been eating papaya.  So not something they normally have shared yet.  He should have politely said:  ‘ I’ve never had papaya.  If there any left when you get done, will you let me know? Can we get more for tomorrow? ‘ He should have been full anyway on grilled cheese and chips.  This was a game error that he didn’t have to make if he had  just given five minutes thought.  Food is a big deal in the survivor game.  Remember the guy in an early season who got voted out because the group thought he had food in his pack that  he’d brought in with him and hadn’t shared?  

[JudyObscure]

Calories in one whole papaya =119

Calories in grilled cheese sandwich = 460

Calories in 1ounce potato chips =152

The papaya is almost entirely fast burning carbs, while the grilled cheese and chips have carbs, protein and fat. The fat is the most important part for staving off hunger and I imagine Ricard had eaten more than a few chips. He should have just left the papaya strictly alone.

If the others have the will power they would be better off not even touching their small portion of papaya.  The fruit sugar would set off an insulin response and they would be much hungrier than if they had just stayed fasting. Any energy they would get from it would be gone in minutes and leave them a little shakey.

 

 

Edited November 20, 2021 by JudyObscure