S03:E09 The Grand Jury

[Guest]

Quote

Monica Lewinsky and Linda Tripp tell their stories to 23 strangers.

Airing November 2, 2021

[Spartan Girl]

The grand jury reading Linda for filth was *chef’s kiss*.

[peridot]

I expected for the grand jury to be against Monica, but I was pleasantly surprised that they felt sympathy for her.  I laughed when the OIC guy tried to derail the question about Monica being held at the Ritz.  I laughed even harder at the derision they showed Tripp.

I'm so glad that Paula dumped her lazy, shit-bag husband, who never believed her and just wanted money.  Good for her! 

I had no sympathy for Bill, who tried to justify his philandering by saying the office made him feel dead inside.  The stories about the cigar and being on the phone during sex shows otherwise, he reveled in his power.

I can't believe Starr didn't care about a rape, and wanted it buried in the appendix.  Man, none of these guys cared about women at all.

[CeeBeeGee]

47 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

The grand jury reading Linda for filth was *chef’s kiss*.

Yes! How satisfying was that? And all those black women giving Monica the side-eye but also asking empathetic and caring questions of her like girl, what were you THINKING? And caring about her ordeal at the Ritz-Carlton.

Loved all the jurors' unimpressed, "not buying it" expressions whenever Linda tried to justify her betrayal. Oh, and their "what are you smoking?" expressions at her paranoia. Great episode--never thought I would find grand jury testimony so interesting!

ETA: FUCK Steve Jones. Good for you, Paula. I don't even know if I believe IRL Paula but Show!Paula--kick him to the curb, girl. I loved her realization that the whole rigamarole--lawyers, lawsuits, everything--was just to get him to believe her. HE initiated the lawsuit after the article and HE turned down the settlement.

Edited November 3, 2021 by CeeBeeGee

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, peridot said:

 

I can't believe Starr didn't care about a rape, and wanted it buried in the appendix.  Man, none of these guys cared about women at all.

Broaddrick's allegation was that Clinton raped her in 1978.  As far as I know, her allegations were never corroborated, and when she had the chance to discuss them in the late 90s, she lied under oath that they never occurred before changing her story.  I kind of understood Starr's position here.  If the Clinton's never asked her to lie, hadn't spoken with her in a couple of decades and she already destroyed her credibility, what exactly is Starr supposed to do with her claims?  I'm not saying her allegation isn't serious, but I honestly don't know that Starr's report would be the forum to try and adjudicate it.  

I think Sarah Paulson is doing a great job.  You can see Linda's horror as she recognizes how all this is playing and that her preferred version of events is being disregarded.       

Also, I loved Linda's line about how her comment about the tie was meant as "Pro-Marshall's" rather than being pro-affair.  It was both pathetic and hilarious. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

I've written about how Beanie constantly takes me out of the show because her eyes especially are not like Monica's.

As a suggestion, an actor like Kelli Garner, someone who looks a bit more like Monica?  I am sure she is capable.

I'm sorry, but Beanie's eyes and teeth are sooooooo not like Monica's.  It's all I can think about.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[DanaK]

Boo on the grand jury for lecturing Monica at times, but cheers for them wanting to hear about the FBI’s treatment of her

Yay on the grand jury for going hard on Linda and her self-justifications. You don’t keep suggesting someone continue an affair if you are worried about their mental and emotional health. It’s clear she stayed involved with Monica because she hated the Clintons and made it all about her

[laprin]

Why do I continue to watch this show as if I don’t know any details or how it ends? That’s how good this show is!

I wish Linda was still alive. I want to know if she would have had any new appreciation at all for how she came off. 

[DanaK]

Man, poor Monica had to come back in and detail the sex acts. At least Starr’s people decided to have a woman agent do the questioning in private, though recorded

[lovinbob]

I can’t believe the questions Monica had to answer about the intimate details. And also, god love her—she was so honest. I think she could have gotten away with “not remembering” who initiated shat and whether her undies were off or not. Plus the cigar thing—she certainly could have gotten away with not mentioning that. It’s not like Clinton would have offered up that detail. 

Kudos to Annaleigh Ashford. Her fire in that final scene with Paula’s husband was great. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I've written about how Beanie constantly takes me out of the show because her eyes especially are not like Monica's.

As a suggestion, an actor like Kelli Garner, someone who looks a bit more like Monica?  I am sure she is capable.

I'm sorry, but Beanie's eyes and teeth are sooooooo not like Monica's.  It's all I can think about.

Quoting myself, now that I've seen the episode.  Beanie in the last scene with the 1 lone female questioner was good.  That was believable, but of course really sad.

Couldn't Monica have used the 5th amendment?  What does it possibly get her to cooperate and give full answers?  If that was an option, her lawyer should have advised it.

The female questioner played Cathy on "The Office", and she played a very hatable character.  She was different here, which is great, but she still has a very Valley Girl accent.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

57 minutes ago, lovinbob said:

Kudos to Annaleigh Ashford. Her fire in that final scene with Paula’s husband was great. 

I guess it's fun but the 180 degree turnaround wasn't exactly telegraphed on the show at all, unless I missed a crucial scene?

[LADreamr]

18 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Couldn't Monica have used the 5th amendment?  What does it possibly get her to cooperate and give full answers?  If that was an option, her lawyer should have advised it.

I believe it was a condition of her immunity deal that she had to be that forthcoming with the details.

[hoodooznoodooz]

Despite my opinion of her as a human being and how delusional she was, I thought Linda’s statement was pretty good.

Edited November 4, 2021 by hoodooznoodooz

[xhoipolloix]

Quote

Despite my opinion of her as a human being and how delusional she was, Linda’s statement was pretty good.

Agree! It was shockingly good. But I think at that point every body had already made up their mind about her and weren't listening.

[hoodooznoodooz]

Difficult to watch Monica rhapsodizing about getting married and taking on her husband’s last name one day.

[hoodooznoodooz]

The casting of the grand jury was brilliant.

Linda Tripp’s daughter. My heart aches for her. She was so normal and had so much compassion. To grow up with a mom like that. 

[hoodooznoodooz]

Broaddrick Wikipedia is very disturbing. 

[Sara2009]

8 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I guess it's fun but the 180 degree turnaround wasn't exactly telegraphed on the show at all, unless I missed a crucial scene?

Paula and her husband had a very similar fight in a previous episode, so it didn’t seem that sudden to me. Different strokes and all that.

[Spartan Girl]

6 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Despite my opinion of her as a human being and how delusional she was, Linda’s statement was pretty good.

 

4 hours ago, xhoipolloix said:

Agree! It was shockingly good. But I think at that point every body had already made up their mind about her and weren't listening.

It was a good statement, but that’s all it was: “a good statement.” I couldn’t buy it as anything more than that. She used and exploited Monica for her own gains. At the end of the day, only thing she was really sorry for is that it bit her in the ass.

[Medicine Crow]

10 hours ago, laprin said:

Why do I continue to watch this show as if I don’t know any details or how it ends? That’s how good this show is!

I wish Linda was still alive. I want to know if she would have had any new appreciation at all for how she came off. 

Linda died in 2020 of pancreatic cancer ... not an easy way to go!!!  I'm thinking she had a lot of time to think about her "life"!!!

[Retired at last]

11 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

What does it possibly get her to cooperate and give full answers?  If that was an option, her lawyer should have advised it.

Wasn't that part of the agreement she signed? She had to be truthful or she would lose the immunity.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I understand now thanks to everyone's explanations, it just sucks.  What would she have been charged with?  Obstruction of justice ?  She was cornered and tricked by the Feds and then forced to spill everything to not be implicated.  

[hookedontv]

13 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I've written about how Beanie constantly takes me out of the show because her eyes especially are not like Monica's.

As a suggestion, an actor like Kelli Garner, someone who looks a bit more like Monica?  I am sure she is capable.

I'm sorry, but Beanie's eyes and teeth are sooooooo not like Monica's.  It's all I can think about.

I agree. Most of the actors really look or act like the people they are playing, except for Beanie. I only see Beanie as well. Her transformation to Monica wasn't successful IMO, and much of that has to do with her eyes, height and shape.  Beanie's Monica comes off as clunky with no poise whatsoever. Her eyes especially when she is worred or concerned really take me out of it. 

When I first saw Edie Falco as Hillary, I only saw Edie. However, her mannerisms and movement pulled me into her Hillary character. And while I don't think that Clive Owen (didn't know it was him until a few episodes in!) looks like Clinton, his voice and his charisma pulled me in. 

Sarah Paulson is doing a great Linda Tripp. What a miserable woman. I found this article short article and I'm wondering if Allison Tripp was watchng the same series as I was: “They’ve shown her as a hard-working, loyal, gritty woman who has a lot of integrity,” Allison, herself a mother of four, said of Episode 1.

Also interesting in the article was that Tripp remarried (had no idea), and that she owned a Christmas shop! 

https://www.bustle.com/entertainment/linda-tripp-husband-kids-daughter-son

[Ms Blue Jay]

13 minutes ago, hookedontv said:

 And while I don't think that Clive Owen (didn't know it was him until a few episodes in!) looks like Clinton, his voice and his charisma pulled me in. 

I'm not really good with Clinton, other people can comment better than me, but the best is when Clive is off screen but we can hear his voice, I think, damn that is eerie!

Edited November 3, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[LADreamr]

25 minutes ago, hookedontv said:

Also interesting in the article was that Tripp remarried (had no idea), and that she owned a Christmas shop! 

I have little sympathy for her (except for whatever pain caused her to be that needy for importance and validation), but a part of me is glad she got to have that bit of happiness... assuming she allowed it be happy, and not just another source of drama, that is.

Edited November 3, 2021 by LADreamr

[qtpye]

Was the real Monica's voice as girlish as Beanie's voice?

I have heard Monica speak recently but have no idea how she sounded then.

[LADreamr]

3 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Was the real Monica's voice as girlish as Beanie's voice?

I have heard Monica speak recently but have no idea how she sounded then.

This interview is from one year later:

 

[Emmeline]

16 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I've written about how Beanie constantly takes me out of the show because her eyes especially are not like Monica's.

As a suggestion, an actor like Kelli Garner, someone who looks a bit more like Monica?  I am sure she is capable.

I'm sorry, but Beanie's eyes and teeth are sooooooo not like Monica's.  It's all I can think about.

I’ve had a hard time with the entire series because of the Monica casting of Beanie.  I just can’t get my head around it.  

[chabelisaywow]

2 hours ago, LADreamr said:

have little sympathy for her

I don’t know if I have sympathy for Linda Tripp but I don’t think she should have been vilified as much. While I don’t agree with how she went about it - I don’t think she should be blamed more for snitching than the actual deed that she snitched on. Monica told 11 people. How about all the WH staffers who knew as well?

 Linda Tripp was a wife and a mother and remarried - Monica didn’t get to experience any of those things - not because Linda snitched on her. 

If Monica still has resentment towards her - I don’t think she’s learned a thing. 
 

If anything - without the dress - Monica would have been written off as a crazy who imagined the whole thing. I don’t know what’s worse.

[LADreamr]

30 minutes ago, chabelisaywow said:

If Monica still has resentment towards her - I don’t think she’s learned a thing. 

I don't believe she does, actually.  If I remember right, she was very gracious towards her, when she died.  Monica has had the worst outcome from this whole thing, and from the beginning, she's been the classiest person involved.

[chlban]

38 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I understand now thanks to everyone's explanations, it just sucks.  What would she have been charged with?  Obstruction of justice ?  She was cornered and tricked by the Feds and then forced to spill everything to not be implicated.  

Obstruction of Justice and Perjury for lying about the affair. Felonies. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, chlban said:

Obstruction of Justice and Perjury for lying about the affair. Felonies. 

Thanks

[CeeBeeGee]

I almost forgot: ROTATE!

That sequence was fucking hilarious. Is there nothing that doesn't aggrieve Linda?

[dubbel zout]

Whoever did Judith Light's makeup this episode made her look like a corpse. Was that intentional? Or was it just bad lighting? Either way, it was terrible.

[tvfanatic13]

5 hours ago, Emmeline said:

I’ve had a hard time with the entire series because of the Monica casting of Beanie.  I just can’t get my head around it.  

 

2 hours ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

The casting of Beanie has always bugged me, since it was announced.  What did they do, just call Central Casting and ask for “fat Jewish girl?”  Monica doesn’t resemble Beanie Feldstein any more than two people of any ethnicity might resemble each other.   I’m going to be frank here, Beanie is much heavier than Monica ever was, and her face and figure are much less (conventionally) attractive.   Monica is, at best, “zaftig,” which is a complement in some circles. (Jake Tapper thought so).   Sure, she struggled with her weight at times, but who doesn’t?  The casting of Beanie comes off as just one more fat joke.  And Beanie’s portrayal of the character is completely wrong, especially the mousy, whispery cracking baby voice.   Monica, when interviewed, even back then, comes off as polished, well -spoken, and effervescent.  She’s always smiling a huge smile.  She’s almost too eager to ingratiate herself.  You can totally get why Clinton was attracted to her.  That’s part of what was so infuriating about the coverage of her at the time and all the “why would he pick her when he could have any woman he wanted” nonsense.   You could see why.    Beanie?  Not so much.  She’s supposedly met Monica and hung out with her, maybe she just doesn’t have it in her to be like her despite her best efforts.   Anyway, it’s like the creators of this show bought into all the inaccurate and insulting things that were said about Monica then and cast her that way.  Sad that Monica apparently okayed this casting choice.  I really hope she doesn’t see herself that way.  Maybe she saw something in Beanie that I don’t, or maybe there just wasn’t much of a choice.  

In hindsight, Monica should not have taken the immunity deal and most likely would not have had she known all the sordid details she would be required to admit.  (Why on earth did she volunteer the cigar thing?  She was so young and so eager to be a good girl and help.).  She probably thought at first that she could just say they had a sexual relationship and leave it at that.  Who could have imagined otherwise?  Of course, that is Clinton’s fault because of the way he parsed the definition of “sexual relations.”  Nobody knew he would do that.   It was brilliant lawyering on his part, though he obviously didn’t care how it affected Monica.   Still, her lawyers should’ve just dared Starr to charge her with perjury and waste time on a trial. They never would have.  But they scared her, she and her family were naive and took the first advice they got, which was to cooperate.  They just wanted it all over.  It’s understandable, but it’s a shame.  Ken Starr is a horrible person, it seems like.  He was so fixated on this!  And then he hears about another person who also lied in an affidavit in the Paula Jones case, but even worse, she was raped, and he ignores it?  It is my understanding that Clinton also lied about Juanita in his deposition, it’s the same thing he did with Monica.   Had Monica not been handed to them on a silver platter by Tripp, Juanita could’ve formed the same basis for a perjury trap for Clinton if she had recanted earlier (though there were no tapes or blue dress for corroborating evidence).   But Starr already had his prey, he didn’t need her.    It’s all so awful, how this poor girl was just used as a pawn by everyone in this case.  And super ironic because this was, of all of them, the only actual consensual relationship they uncovered.    (I know, I know, he took advantage of his age and position, but legally, that’s not a crime unless it’s unwanted or she gets fired or there’s some other quid pro quo).

Ditto to all of this.  The casting of Beanie has bothered me since day 1. 

[chabelisaywow]

4 hours ago, LADreamr said:

I don't believe she does, actually.  If I remember right, she was very gracious towards her, when she died.  Monica has had the worst outcome from this whole thing, and from the beginning, she's been the classiest person involved.

Sorry I binged all the boards before posting. I thought I read that Monica said in an interview she still resents Linda Tripp. 
 

There are so many facets to this story - when it happened I was a few years older than Monica. I didn’t pay attention at the time because I was young and not interested. Lol even back then Bill Clinton was not in any way, shape or form attractive. 
 

I have an uncle from Little Rock. One time when my grandmother visited there she got to meet Bill Clinton. I heard she bypassed the SS went right up to him and introduced herself. She just passed this year at age 94. I never asked if she thought he was attractive or anything. Lol 

[toodywoody]

I felt so bad for Monica having to go into extreme detail about everything.

And Juanita Broaddrick I did not know about.

How in the hell did so many women just forgive Clinton for all the shit he did to so many women. I know we are in a different day and time, but seriously. 

[Tdoc72]

6 hours ago, LADreamr said:

This interview is from one year later:

 

She’s so personable, I can see why the grand jury ended up liking her. I always thought she had the best hair—thick and shiny but they really made it look gross in that interview. 

[hoodooznoodooz]

The best photos of Monica are when she’s wearing a dark sweater vest over a white T-shirt, and her hair is a loose short bob. The bullet head hair is terrible.

[Spartan Girl]

Rewatched this episode and it’s pretty obvious why the grand jury sympathized with Monica despite the initial judgment she got. She was contrite, honest, and completely owned her mistakes and poor choices. Meanwhile Linda demonstrated no remorse whatsoever and played the victim, spouting off her delusional self-justifications and conspiracy theories. The jury saw right through that bullshit.

On 11/2/2021 at 11:53 PM, txhorns79 said:

Broaddrick's allegation was that Clinton raped her in 1978.  As far as I know, her allegations were never corroborated, and when she had the chance to discuss them in the late 90s, she lied under oath that they never occurred before changing her story.  I kind of understood Starr's position here.  If the Clinton's never asked her to lie, hadn't spoken with her in a couple of decades and she already destroyed her credibility, what exactly is Starr supposed to do with her claims?  I'm not saying her allegation isn't serious, but I honestly don't know that Starr's report would be the forum to try and adjudicate it.  

Interesting that the actress that plays her was also the Klan wife in BlackkKlansman. 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Spartan Girl

[ifionlyknew]

34 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

She was contrite, honest, and completely owned her mistakes and poor choices. Meanwhile Linda demonstrated no remorse whatsoever and played the victim, spouting off her delusional self-justifications and conspiracy theories. The jury saw right through that bullshit.

Monica has always owned her mistakes.  And not only did Linda Tripp have no remorse for what she did but neither did Bill Clinton. He might have said he screwed up but I will always believe he thinks screwing up means he feels bad he got caught. Not that he shouldn't have done it but he should have been more careful.

9 hours ago, Tdoc72 said:

She’s so personable, I can see why the grand jury ended up liking her.

Monica in real life is very personable but I do not find Beanie portraying Monica personable.  As others have mentioned she just does not come across as Monica.   In all the interviews I have seen of Monica she always comes across as someone you would could become fast friends with.  Which is probably why she it was so easy for Linda Tripp to befriend her.  

40 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Interesting that the actress that plays her was also the Klan wife in BlackkKlansman. 

I thought that was her!!

10 hours ago, chabelisaywow said:

There are so many facets to this story - when it happened I was a few years older than Monica. I didn’t pay attention at the time because I was young and not interested. Lol even back then Bill Clinton was not in any way, shape or form attractive. 

I don't think it was his physical appearance that was so alluring.  People say he is very charming in person. And there is a the whole smart and powerful thing going on.   I myself never found him appealing. I always thought Al Gore was way more attractive.

[cardigirl]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

Interesting that the actress that plays her was also the Klan wife in BlackkKlansman. 

In what way?

[cardigirl]

13 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

I almost forgot: ROTATE!

That sequence was fucking hilarious. Is there nothing that doesn't aggrieve Linda?

Have you ever been behind someone who doesn't understand how to use that contraption.  I felt her frustration. LOL. 

On 11/3/2021 at 1:14 AM, Ms Blue Jay said:

The female questioner played Cathy on "The Office", and she played a very hatable character.  She was different here, which is great, but she still has a very Valley Girl accent.

So being Cathy from "The Office" informs this character?  

[Ms Blue Jay]

13 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

I almost forgot: ROTATE!

That sequence was fucking hilarious. Is there nothing that doesn't aggrieve Linda?

I've never had a waffle maker, so yeah she really annoyed me here.  Not that waffle makers are some insane luxury, but it always annoys me when I read a cookbook and the recipe inevitably says "Turn your waffle maker on".  Like every house in the world has one.

[jmcd44]

12 hours ago, Tdoc72 said:

I always thought she had the best hair

Agree! Her hair remains absolutely gorgeous. 

 

2 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

In all the interviews I have seen of Monica she always comes across as someone you would could become fast friends with.

I bet I would've loved Monica at her age (I love her now)-we would've been work friends for sure (no taping from me though!). Monica seems like someone who was very considerate (not to some wives I guess). Apparently she sent apology notes to her Watergate neighbors and that seems like that would've never crossed my mind at 25. I can see why the Grand Jury found her relatable and charming. 

[AllyB]

13 hours ago, toodywoody said:

I felt so bad for Monica having to go into extreme detail about everything

The thing is, she only had to go into so much detail because of Clinton trying to be "clever" about the definition of sexual relations. By saying 'yes we did stuff but I never intended to cause arousal' he created a situation where Starr's team wanted to prove that he did in fact intended to prove arousal. And to do that they wanted every last detail.

[hookedontv]

20 hours ago, qtpye said:

Was the real Monica's voice as girlish as Beanie's voice?

I have heard Monica speak recently but have no idea how she sounded then.

That's actually a very good point. Beanie's voice is much more childish than Monica's. While Monica was in her earlier 20's when this happened, Beanie's performance to me seems to be more bewildered and childish. I feel that Monica had more poise than Beanie is giving, if that makes any sense. 

[Milburn Stone]

On 11/3/2021 at 2:06 AM, hoodooznoodooz said:

Despite my opinion of her as a human being and how delusional she was, I thought Linda’s statement was pretty good.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that. I was like, "Wait a second...this is actually valid, and cogent."

[DanaK]

1 hour ago, AllyB said:

The thing is, she only had to go into so much detail because of Clinton trying to be "clever" about the definition of sexual relations. By saying 'yes we did stuff but I never intended to cause arousal' he created a situation where Starr's team wanted to prove that he did in fact intended to prove arousal. And to do that they wanted every last detail.

Did they really need to though? It seems the whole ordeal was just because Clinton's enemies wanted to catch him doing something illegal, so they tried to get him to lie about his affair with Monica while he was being deposed about Paula. I can totally understand why he had to do a deposition about Paula, as she had accused him of wrongdoing. But then the lawyers had heard about Monica and tried to get him to lie about it, which he essentially did (but only because a Paula lawyer provided him an out with an overly specific definition). But it was an affair that both he and Monica participated in and she didn't see it as abuse, and it shouldn't have been brought up and Ken Starr shouldn't have turned it into an investigation, especially given he was already flopping on his other investigations of the Clintons. This was a mess that could have and should have been avoided, especially getting the nitty gritty details. That last part is probably what hurt Monica the most, with people knowing every last sexual detail of her affair with Bill; well, that and the tapes. Everyone involved that tried to make the affair public and get all the details, including Linda, were just out to get something for themselves, including taking Bill down. I think the grand jury and the reporters at the press conference really saw through Linda and her excuses. The women caught up in this mess, including Hillary, did not deserve any of it, though I'm not sure what to think of Juanita Broderick and her flip-flopping, even now. Of course, Bill and Monica were in the wrong for having the affair, but to get sicced on by a federal investigator and forced to testify about it in detail that was then made very public was unnecessary. This was a really good episode that was by turns infuriating and interesting