TV Tropes: Love 'em or Loathe 'em

[DoctorAtomic]

I think they're kind of missing that nuance with Superman today. I'm not really a comic book movie guy, or have a favorite one, but I don't have anything against the movies - I think there's a lot of good there, teamwork, etc., but I think they're kind of missing that. Sure, an Ironman isn't that guy; criticizing him within this context wouldn't be fair.

I would say the first round of Spiderman did a good job with the 'with great power comes great responsibility' theme. And casting Bale for Batman was a good choice.

You get an actor that can work between the lines like Reeves did. That's something special.

Edited November 15, 2019 by DoctorAtomic

[auntlada]

14 hours ago, SVNBob said:

Do you mean this one?

It's the pinnacle example of how well Reeve understood the duality of Clark/Superman, and shows in real time the difference between the two halves.

It's also the pinnacle answer to the question of "How come no one can tell Clark Kent is just Superman wearing glasses?"

Or this one:

[Dr.OO7]

I hate the No Periods, Period trope.

Once again, I'm not asking for 24/7 discussion of this issue, but it's ridiculous how absent this subject can be, especially on female-dominant/centric shows--Full House, Cosby, Just The Ten Of Us, had houses chock full of women, including several girls who undoubtedly reached the age of menarche at some point in the show's run, yet somehow the topic never came up.

[scarynikki12]

I remember Cosby did an episode when Rudy got her period but that's the only example I have.

[Mittengirl]

I know the topic was mentioned on The Cosby Show, but don’t remember which of the two younger girls was involved.  I also remember Blossom and Roseanne having episodes about “Aunt Flo”.  I think there have been others, as well.

Personally, I don’t see the need to mention it.   I can’t imagine many of the young actresses are all that comfortable with the topic.  Besides, how many times have there been episodes that focused on boys having their first wet dream?  

Edited November 17, 2019 by Mittengirl

[Bastet]

What we need are more brief casual references to periods, as the part of life they are, rather than the two poles of either ignoring them or centering Very Special Episodes around menarche (and then ignoring them again until some godsawful episode about menopause).  Not that there can't be any menarche or menopause storylines in the midst of that normalcy, of course, just that they need to be done better; Roseanne did menarche well with Darlene, and Cybill did menopause well with Cybill, but I'm struggling to come up with other good examples.

[biakbiak]

18 minutes ago, Mittengirl said:

Besides, how many times have there been episodes that focused on boys having their first wet dream?  

Perhaps not a full episode but many, many jokes about it in different shows. 

[Dr.OO7]

47 minutes ago, Bastet said:

What we need are more brief casual references to periods, as the part of life they are, rather than the two poles of either ignoring them or centering Very Special Episodes around menarche (and then ignoring them again until some godsawful episode about menopause).  Not that there can't be any menarche or menopause storylines in the midst of that normalcy, of course, just that they need to be done better; Roseanne did menarche well with Darlene, and Cybill did menopause well with Cybill, but I'm struggling to come up with other good examples.

Exactly. Cosby had a a house full of women, yet we only got those two VSEs about Rudy and Claire, respectively.

And it's ridiculous when we don't even get that much. Full House had THREE girls living in that house, plus a fourth who frequently visited, 2 of whom surely reached the age of menarche and a third who likely did too, but we got no mention of it. And a show like that could have gotten some good mileage out of them lamenting that they didn't have their mother to talk to about it.

[Glendenning]

"lamenting that they didn't have their mother to talk to about it."

Wouldn't they have just talked to "Aunt" Becky? It's never really mentioned, but i'm sure that even D.J. - who remembers their mom, Pam - would look to Becky for um, lady issues.

[Luckylyn]

Roseanne had an episode about Darlene’s first period and an episode about Roseanne’s PMS making everyone miserable Dan’s birthday.  It’s a hilarious episode but it bugs how PMS is treated as a joke.  I suffer from week long PMS sometimes.  I have bad headaches, breast tenderness that can be painful, intense fatigue, appetite changes, bloating, and the cliche moodiness can happen for me too.  PMS is not just a woman  being snippy to people for one day a month.  It can feel pretty horrible on a physical level as well as emotionally.  I’m so happy those months when my PMS lasts only a couple of days instead of a full week.  

Madmen had an episode where Sally got her period for the first time while sneaking off to the museum with a boy.  She was so freaked out she ditched the boy and rushed home to her mother’s for comfort. 

Modern Family had an episode where all the Dunphy women had their period at the same time. It focused on how the men of the family were bothered by the women’s moodiness.

There is a tv trope of a woman’s period being an inconvenience to the men in her life or a source of humor and not really much of a focus on how symptoms other than moodiness and how they make the woman feel.  

[merylinkid]

Superman/Clark Kent -- watch without the sound on to see how its really all in the body language.   Both clips.   Especially when he decides to tell Lois the truth.

Re periods on tv -- they don't mention going to the bathroom a lot either.   Ocassional references to needing to buy toilet paper but that's it.    Common occurrences, which with a houseful of women would be every single month -- don't get mentioned a lot on tv shows.   Rarely are headaches, toothaches, or just plain tired feet mentioned.   You have 22 to 40 some odd minutes to tell a story.   You can only do so much.

[Homily]

1 hour ago, Luckylyn said:

There is a tv trope of a woman’s period being an inconvenience to the men in her life or a source of humor and not really much of a focus on how symptoms other than moodiness and how they make the woman feel.  

There was an episode of Big Bang Theory where we see Amy interacting with Sheldon very normally and she doesn't seem to be in pain or troubled in any way and then in the very next scene we see Sheldon telling people that Amy is suffering from excruciatingly painful cramps.  Ok,  if her cramps are that painful she's not walking and talking and acting perfectly normally - who could be? So do the writers not grasp how godawful PAINFUL cramps can actually be?  As you say it's one more example of how it's a minor annoyance that bothers the man in her life far more than it does her.  Grrrrrrr

Edited November 17, 2019 by Homily

[Glendenning]

TV/movie tropes about Nicholas II of Russia and his family annoy me endlessly

I remember watching the animated "Anastasia" as a child and going "this is enormously historically inaccurate!"

[Luckylyn]

1 hour ago, Homily said:

There was an episode of Big Bang Theory where we see Amy interacting with Sheldon very normally and she doesn't seem to be in pain or troubled in any way and then in the very next scene we see Sheldon telling people that Amy is suffering from excruciatingly painful cramps.  Ok,  if her cramps are that painful she's not walking and talking and acting perfectly normally - who could be? So do the writers not grasp how godawful PAINFUL cramps can actually be?  As you say it's one more example of how it's a minor annoyance that bothers the man in her life far more than it does her.  Grrrrrrr

I don’t think any show has ever realistically dealt with how painful cramps can be.  There are times it’s so intense that just getting up to walk is very difficult.

[Shannon L.]

On 11/17/2019 at 4:32 AM, Luckylyn said:

Modern Family had an episode where all the Dunphy women had their period at the same time. It focused on how the men of the family were bothered by the women’s moodiness.

They also did an episode that included Lily's first period (not a VSE, it was just part of what was going on the episode) and I kind of liked how they handled it.  Lily shut herself in her room and when Mitch and Cam realized why, they didn't know what to say to her so they called on the women of the family to help.  Of course, because it's a comedy, the women came over with ridiculous pamphlets, advice and natural healing medications for physical discomfort, but in the end, Mitch and Cam kicked them out, sat on the floor outside Lily's room and, speaking through the door, told her that while they didn't know exactly what she was going through, they understood what how uncomfortable and awkward it can be when your body start to change. 

Edited November 18, 2019 by Shannon L.

[Homily]

2 hours ago, Luckylyn said:

I don’t think any show has ever realistically dealt with how painful cramps can be.  There are times it’s so intense that just getting up to walk is very difficult.

It would be easy to blame it on male writers, and that's probably partly true but IME the people most dismissive of how painful cramps can be are women who've never experienced really bad cramps.  As a teenager I lost count of how many times some woman teacher or school nurse or whoever would tell me "just walk it off",  I'd love just once for a TV show not to focus on the moodiness that gets associated with PMS or your period and talk about how debilitating cramps can be for some women.

[auntlada]

5 hours ago, merylinkid said:

Re periods on tv -- they don't mention going to the bathroom a lot either.   Ocassional references to needing to buy toilet paper but that's it.    Common occurrences, which with a houseful of women would be every single month -- don't get mentioned a lot on tv shows.   Rarely are headaches, toothaches, or just plain tired feet mentioned.   You have 22 to 40 some odd minutes to tell a story.   You can only do so much.

Also, many of the shows that have had it as a plotline are sitcoms, so it's going to be treated in a comedic way. Unless it's a very special episode, pretty much everything is treated in a comedic way, regardless of the seriousness of it.

[Bastet]

6 hours ago, merylinkid said:

they don't mention going to the bathroom a lot either.   Ocassional references to needing to buy toilet paper but that's it.    Common occurrences, which with a houseful of women would be every single month -- don't get mentioned a lot on tv shows.   Rarely are headaches, toothaches, or just plain tired feet mentioned.

Right, but those things are occasionally and casually mentioned in a way periods, cramps, tampons, etc. aren't.  It's that lack of occasionally being a benign background reference on TV in the same way other routine parts of life are that's one problem, perpetuating the taboo against women's natural bodies and functions. 

We get a character taking off a pair of heels and rubbing - or having rubbed - her feet as the background of a conversation, a character unloading groceries that include toilet paper in the midst of the scene's conversation/action, etc. but symptoms and products related to periods are not casually included in the same way.  Periods only exist as a plot point, and almost always in a narrow way that too often revolves around how the men in a menstruating or menopausal woman's life are affected by her cycle -- she's moody, she doesn't want to have sex, she's got the bedroom windows open and the ceiling fan going in January, etc. and Poor Befuddled Male is just hanging on for the ride.

[SweetieDarling]

9 hours ago, Luckylyn said:

I don’t think any show has ever realistically dealt with how painful cramps can be.  There are times it’s so intense that just getting up to walk is very difficult.

I am not trying to be argumentative, but many people watch tv for entertainment and for an escape from their own lives. Personally, I find nothing entertaining about menstruating, and it is something I would prefer to escape or be distracted from if it happens to be "that time" for me. Mileage may vary.

[Glendenning]

And to be honest, the "but why are there no very special episodes about Teh Boyz First Wet Dweam!" shows an amazing amount of tone-deafness. A young girl's first period is seen as much more meaningful and important by the world - and being frank here, even by many women writers - in a way that a wet dream or the first puberty moustache simply is not.

[Blergh]

In too many shows to even list: nosy pests are actually charming friends of their victims -regardless of how much their meddling makes things far worse for said victims than had they simply minded their own AND any and all meddling is supposedly done because the pests CARE for their victims! Why are there so many shows that perpetuate this destructive rot and too few where victims  get depicted calling the pests for the shallow, mean, indiscreet folks they actually ARE! 

Edited November 19, 2019 by Blergh

[Glendenning]

1 hour ago, Blergh said:

In too many shows to even list: nosy pests are actually charming friends of their victims -regardless of how much their meddling makes things far worse for said victims than had they simply minded their own AND any and all meddling is supposedly done because the pests CARE for their victims! Why are there so many shows that perpetuate this destructive rot and too few where victims  get depicted call the pests for the shallow, mean, indiscreet folks they actually ARE! 

Bewitched being the UberExample - Mrs Kravitz: "I was just here for a snoop, uh, a scoop of sugar"

[Homily]

6 hours ago, Glendenning said:

Bewitched being the UberExample - Mrs Kravitz: "I was just here for a snoop, uh, a scoop of sugar"

In fairness to Mrs Kravitz she was seeing some really bizarre stuff and no one would believe her!  She was the real victim IMO, poor thing!

[janie jones]

On 11/13/2019 at 12:39 AM, methodwriter85 said:

Watched Daybreak and was reminded of this one...

When a guy who looks like this:

Is somehow a high school outcast. (This also applies to the ladies as well.)

Believe me, in my own high school days, a guy who showed up as a new kid who looked like that would have been beating off the girls (and a few guys) off with a stick.

I know nothing about this dude, but I think he looks super creepy, so I can totally buy him as an outcast. 

On 11/16/2019 at 7:10 PM, Mittengirl said:

I know the topic was mentioned on The Cosby Show, but don’t remember which of the two younger girls was involved.  I also remember Blossom and Roseanne having episodes about “Aunt Flo”.  I think there have been others, as well.

Personally, I don’t see the need to mention it.   I can’t imagine many of the young actresses are all that comfortable with the topic.  Besides, how many times have there been episodes that focused on boys having their first wet dream?  

"You're blossoming, Blossom!"  I'll never get that ridiculous line out of my head.

In my opinion, wet dreams are not the male equivalent of periods.

[Glendenning]

There is no male equivalent - at least not in how society sees and considers it - of the young girl's first period so saying "why aren't there VSE's about the male version" is pointless. And many of these "first period" VSEs are written by women. LMAO at the idea that women can't be sexist. And it's not "internalized", it's just plain old sexism.

[Mabinogia]

I just think it would be nice to acknowledge that periods are just a part of life rather than being a 'very special episode' or a comic excuse for why some guys wife is being 'bitchy'. Just having two women in a work loo talking and one just saying "ugh, cramps" is enough. And if not, stop making the only time periods are referenced 1) when a young girl gets her first one in school and has blood on her skirt/pants, 2) a dad has to buy tampons, or 3) a woman is being less than nice and someone snidely comments about her "time of the month". 

[Glendenning]

the media (and real life) trope where people make excuses for evil and/or violent women and girls. No, women don't just kill in response to abuse, they can kill for any reason and no reason, just like boys and men do. Being marginalized by society shouldn't give you a free pass.

[Mabinogia]

23 hours ago, Glendenning said:

the media (and real life) trope where people make excuses for evil and/or violent women and girls. No, women don't just kill in response to abuse, they can kill for any reason and no reason, just like boys and men do. Being marginalized by society shouldn't give you a free pass.

OMG I was watching something the other day and someone basically say that men are natural killers but women will only kill for a man. WTeverlovingF? Woman are every bit as evil and fucked up as men. We aren't angels. We're people. Some are great, some are horrible but we don't do evil things because a man told us to. We actually are capable of doing things for ourselves. That pissed me off sooooooo much. Not because I want women to be killers, but because I am sick of people trying to take away our agency. 

[selkie]

On 11/17/2019 at 2:36 PM, Bastet said:

 Periods only exist as a plot point, and almost always in a narrow way that too often revolves around how the men in a menstruating or menopausal woman's life are affected by her cycle -- she's moody, she doesn't want to have sex, she's got the bedroom windows open and the ceiling fan going in January, etc. and Poor Befuddled Male is just hanging on for the ride.

And then there was 'Babylon 5', where Delenn's 'I seem to be having these cramps' line to Susan Ivanovs seemed to be a bit of a throwaway line at first, but then in true JMS/B5 style it ends up being a clue about a huge plot point involving her becoming human enough that she could actually have a child with Sheridan several years down the road.

As long as I'm thinking of JMS shows, cramps made a reappearance in 'Sense 8', where you have a group of people who who can feel everything the rest of their cluster is feeling, and there's a bit where Sun gets horrible cramps and Lito ends up feeling like he's about to keel over and die from her pain. 

[ratgirlagogo]

On 11/18/2019 at 8:03 PM, Mabinogia said:

the only time periods are referenced 1) when a young girl gets her first one in school and has blood on her skirt/pants, 2) a dad has to buy tampons, or 3) a woman is being less than nice and someone snidely comments about her "time of the month". 

Or  4) when she misses a period or is late and has pregnancy panic.

[auntlada]

8 hours ago, ratgirlagogo said:

Or  4) when she misses a period or is late and has pregnancy panic.

And it's always just 1-2 days late because she is always so regular that she is never even one hour late.

[Homily]

10 hours ago, ratgirlagogo said:

Or  4) when she misses a period or is late and has pregnancy panic.

Which leads to another thing that happens a lot that annoys me.  Pregnancy panic which leads to nothing and no explanation is ever given as to what was actually wrong.  A few days late is a logical explanation but in the scenarios I'm thinking of that's never given as an option.  Something is wrong - and then it's not.  Annoying.

Edited November 23, 2019 by Homily

[DoctorAtomic]

Women's periods on TV are as precise as a Swiss watch. 

[Mabinogia]

44 minutes ago, auntlada said:

And it's always just 1-2 days late because she is always so regular that she is never even one hour late.

I have a one week window before I can even tell if I'm late or not. I WISH I had a TV period. They seem like the greatest. They are always on time, never seem that big a bother, and are the perfect excuse to be a total bitch and eat lots of ice cream. 

[scarynikki12]

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Women's periods on TV are as precise as a Swiss watch. 

And a source of jealousy for all of us in real life.

[Haleth]

On 11/23/2019 at 12:36 AM, ratgirlagogo said:

Or  4) when she misses a period or is late and has pregnancy panic.

Unless she throws up and/or faints she should know it's not a tv pregnancy.

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

Unless she throws up and/or faints she should know it's not a tv pregnancy.

Oh, no a woman can't possibly faint or throw up for any other reason but pregnancy. 

[smittykins]

Or if she’s in a bar/restaurant and orders a nonalcoholic drink.  She’s totes pregnant.

[Mabinogia]

8 hours ago, smittykins said:

Or if she’s in a bar/restaurant and orders a nonalcoholic drink.  She’s totes pregnant.

And hasn't told anyone yet, but now they all know because she just ordered the Non-Alcoholic Drink of Obvious Pregnancy! dun dun dun. Can't possibly be because she just doesn't feel like paying too much for a watered down drink.

Next time I'm out with a group at dinner I want to order a Sprite, just to see the looks on their faces. lol

[smittykins]

Bonus points if she orders a Virgin Mary.

[scarynikki12]

If a character rents a car they'll often get a stick shift. This leads to the inevitable scene: "I thought you said you could drive a stick!" This scene will never take place as they are leaving the rental lot but miles later in the middle of the city. Bonus points if it's on a steep hill.

[Glendenning]

This applies to Vietnam War television as well - who else remains haunted by CCR's "Fortunate Son"?

[DoctorAtomic]

I've never been in combat but the live action video makes me feel like it. 

Edited November 25, 2019 by DoctorAtomic

[selkie]

11 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

If a character rents a car they'll often get a stick shift. This leads to the inevitable scene: "I thought you said you could drive a stick!" This scene will never take place as they are leaving the rental lot but miles later in the middle of the city. Bonus points if it's on a steep hill.

it's common for an automatic rental to cost twice as much in many parts of Europe where manual is still the default. And for the rental clerk to try to upsell the heck out of a customer to try to get them to take that far more expensive option once they hear a North American English accent.  

[Haleth]

On 11/24/2019 at 10:45 PM, scarynikki12 said:

If a character rents a car they'll often get a stick shift. This leads to the inevitable scene: "I thought you said you could drive a stick!" This scene will never take place as they are leaving the rental lot but miles later in the middle of the city. Bonus points if it's on a steep hill.

This has led to many amusing segments on The Amazing Race.

[ABay]

My first car was stick shift because it meant no one in my family would try to borrow my vehicle. When I moved to a hilly place, I really regretted it. Steep hills wouldn't be so stressful if people would leave a little space between cars.

[tennisgurl]

On television, no one enters their chosen profession just because they liked it or because they were good at it or because they needed a job, it’s always part of some big dramatic tragic backstory. “I run a soup kitchen because I was homeless as a child!” “I became a cop because my father was a cop who was murdered and it’s the one case I can’t solve!” “I own a muffin shop because my mother made muffins and she died and her dying wish was for me to make muffins with her special muffin recipe!” I mean, sure some people get involved with jobs or charities because of personal experiences, but not EVERYONE! 

[Mabinogia]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

“I became a cop because my father was a cop who was murdered and it’s the one case I can’t solve!”

Has there ever been a cop on TV who didn't get into the career because either someone they loved was murdered and they are determined to solve it or every other member of their family is a cop. And is there any "beloved" doctor on TV who doesn't break all the rules because he/she cares so damned much! They are all mavericks who drink too much or sleep around and have some epic backstory that makes them so heroic. 

I used to love cop and doctor shows but they are all the same and they are all boring as hell because of it. 

I will say that it does sometimes make it easier to tell them apart. Beckett, homicide cop with murdered mother vs Benson, SVU cop with raped mother. It's like Garanimals for cop shows. (and now I have really just dated myself lol)

Edited November 27, 2019 by Mabinogia

[Bastet]

3 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

Has there ever been a cop on TV who didn't get into the career because either someone they loved was murdered and they are determined to solve it or every other member of their family is a cop.

One of the numerous things I loved about Sharon Raydor on Major Crimes was her backstory on becoming a cop:  She and her husband both planned to go to law school, him first.  She became a cop for the pay and benefits and it being a law-related job, and wound up staying longer than intended because her husband wasn't working steadily after he passed the bar.  He eventually left her, with two kids to take care of by then; law school just wasn't realistic any more, and she'd come to really like her job.

Of the whole squad, Buzz is the only one who chose his career based on a family member (his dad and uncle) being killed in a case that went unsolved - complete with storyline in which he solves said case.  And none of them became cops because a parent had been one. 

Julio did become a cop to avenge the death of his cat, though.  🙂  He grew up in gang territory (and continued to live there), and saw lots of shit, including his cat killed by a couple of bangers.  He became a cop out of a general desire to protect people in those neighborhoods from gangs, but particularly enjoyed later arresting those two guys for crimes that wound up putting them away for life.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Bastet

[Raja]

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

Has there ever been a cop on TV who didn't get into the career because either someone they loved was murdered and they are determined to solve it or every other member of their family is a cop. And is there any "beloved" doctor on TV who doesn't break all the rules because he/she cares so damned much! They are all mavericks who drink too much or sleep around and have some epic backstory that makes them so heroic. 

I used to love cop and doctor shows but they are all the same and they are all boring as hell because of it. 

I will say that it does sometimes make it easier to tell them apart. Beckett, homicide cop with murdered mother vs Benson, SVU cop with raped mother. It's like Garanimals for cop shows. (and now I have really just dated myself lol)

Most TV cops have a partner without the drama and often one of the extended squad has the civil service test to get a better job background. With another on the squad being a Ranger SEAL veteran.