TV Tropes: Love 'em or Loathe 'em

[DearEvette]

8 hours ago, Camille said:

I apologize if I'm about to offend any recovering addicts, but I can't stand the Off The Wagon trope. It's such an irritating cliché that nearly everytime there's a character who's an addict, they'll have a storyline that results in them breaking their sobriety.

This is kinda related to one my pet peeves in tv writing.  Your identity is your storyline or your only storyline must be related to your identity.  Basically a character from any marginalized group only gets a storyline if it somehow involves their 'otherness' a.k.a the 'very special episode.'  All the rest of the time they are simply the side-kick, sage, or cheerleader to the main character.

[Blergh]

15 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

This is kinda related to one my pet peeves in tv writing.  Your identity is your storyline or your only storyline must be related to your identity.  Basically a character from any marginalized group only gets a storyline if it somehow involves their 'otherness' a.k.a the 'very special episode.'  All the rest of the time they are simply the side-kick, sage, or cheerleader to the main character.

Good point. It seems in Degrassi:TNG there was a character named Hazel who was the Queen Bee Paige's sidekick and nothing more but then there was a Very Special Episode in which she revealed that she was born in Somalia & Muslim and proud to be both. Of course, how it was that even the principal and teachers seemed to have no prior knowledge of her birthplace or faith went totally unaddressed . What was worse also after this episode, they did absolutely NOTHING with these revelations re the character. They even had her date the class president Jimmy Brooks without any question of how she could date a non-Muslim when Muslim women are expected to only marry other Muslims if they want to remain in that faith (to say nothing of whether her Somalian parents would have had any issues over it). 

[methodwriter85]

In that particular case, I always thought it was more about the fact that the actress playing Hazel couldn't act and the writers realized that. In that subset they lucked out with some of the kids turning out to be good actors but Hazel wasn't one of them. They did pretty much lavish all the attention on Paige and Craig, followed after that by Manny and Emma.

But yeah, your point remains. On the Chilling Adventures of Sabrina Theo is set up as the trans person...and that's pretty much it.

[Bastet]

9 hours ago, Camille said:

I apologize if I'm about to offend any recovering addicts, but I can't stand the Off The Wagon trope. It's such an irritating cliché that nearly everytime there's a character who's an addict, they'll have a storyline that results in them breaking their sobriety.

That was another way - in addition to the character of Sharon Raydor, as discussed above - The Closer and Major Crimes were refreshing; Andy Flynn - who'd been sober for over 20 years by the time the second series ended - never relapsed, or even had one of those staring at the glass, deciding whether to drink scenes in 13 seasons.  And it's not that his recovery was brushed off as a given because it had been so long; he still worked a program and was very clear about always being an alcoholic, just one who chooses each day not to drink because of what it does to him.

It's not that there shouldn't be fell off the wagon storylines (and the franchise indeed included peripheral characters with addictions who did relapse), it's just that, like you said, it's annoying for it to happen to seemingly every main character who deals with addiction.  So it was refreshing to have that balanced out some.

10 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I've always wanted to see someone anyone from IA on any of the shows point that out. There are a lot of cases in TV and real life that get over turned due and so many police departments do get sued to shotty police work, bad and/or dirty cops. And yet that part never comes up. 

As anyone who has so much as skimmed the shows' threads knows, I love Sharon Raydor beyond reason and would have watched a show about her reading the phone book.  And I like the ensemble of squad characters, so I was quite happy for The Closer to transition to Major Crimes the way it did.  But, I would have also loved to see a show about Sharon as the head of FID (Force Investigation Division [one of the two parts of the Professional Standards Bureau], which investigated - under a federal mandate, after all the crap the LAPD was up to being exposed - all uses of force). 

IA is always just "the rat squad" seen through the "real cops'" eyes on these shows, and, while it was really nice to see more and more of FID Sharon over three seasons, she was still regarded by almost all the characters as an adversary.  I'd have enjoyed a show about her division - from their perspective, and doing the full scope of their jobs (not just when she had to interact with the Major Crimes squad).  Setting those characters aside, just in general I'd like to see a show about an IA division, where they are the heroes.  There are a ton of potential storylines for such a show, most of which have not already been seen on every other cop show that has ever aired in the history of television.

[izabella]

It's not the worst one out there, but I hate the trope of parents deciding to sell their house and 1) they don't tell their adult children about it, 2) the real estate agent accidentally spills the beans to the adult kids when they show up at the house or call, and 3) the adult kids freak out and act like whiny little bitches because they don't want the parents to sell the house even though they only visit at Christmas or Thanksgiving.

[Dr.OO7]

3 hours ago, Bastet said:

never relapsed, or even had one of those staring at the glass, deciding whether to drink scenes in 13 seasons.  And

That is PRECISELY what I hate about the Off The Wagon trope. There's ALWAYS a scene like that.

[Browncoat]

 

[ganesh]

I say that all the time. 

[andromeda331]

18 hours ago, Bastet said:

That was another way - in addition to the character of Sharon Raydor, as discussed above - The Closer and Major Crimes were refreshing; Andy Flynn - who'd been sober for over 20 years by the time the second series ended - never relapsed, or even had one of those staring at the glass, deciding whether to drink scenes in 13 seasons.  And it's not that his recovery was brushed off as a given because it had been so long; he still worked a program and was very clear about always being an alcoholic, just one who chooses each day not to drink because of what it does to him.

It's not that there shouldn't be fell off the wagon storylines (and the franchise indeed included peripheral characters with addictions who did relapse), it's just that, like you said, it's annoying for it to happen to seemingly every main character who deals with addiction.  So it was refreshing to have that balanced out some.

As anyone who has so much as skimmed the shows' threads knows, I love Sharon Raydor beyond reason and would have watched a show about her reading the phone book.  And I like the ensemble of squad characters, so I was quite happy for The Closer to transition to Major Crimes the way it did.  But, I would have also loved to see a show about Sharon as the head of FID (Force Investigation Division [one of the two parts of the Professional Standards Bureau], which investigated - under a federal mandate, after all the crap the LAPD was up to being exposed - all uses of force). 

IA is always just "the rat squad" seen through the "real cops'" eyes on these shows, and, while it was really nice to see more and more of FID Sharon over three seasons, she was still regarded by almost all the characters as an adversary.  I'd have enjoyed a show about her division - from their perspective, and doing the full scope of their jobs (not just when she had to interact with the Major Crimes squad).  Setting those characters aside, just in general I'd like to see a show about an IA division, where they are the heroes.  There are a ton of potential storylines for such a show, most of which have not already been seen on every other cop show that has ever aired in the history of television.

I would really love to watch a show about an IA squad! That would be a great idea. No limit on different kinds of cases they could be investigating cops and figuring out if they are dirty or not. There's no shortage of cases they could draw from. 

[Raja]

3 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I would really love to watch a show about an IA squad! That would be a great idea. No limit on different kinds of cases they could be investigating cops and figuring out if they are dirty or not. There's no shortage of cases they could draw from. 

There was that movie with Andy Garcia and Laura Metcalf chasing Richard Gere's dirty LAPD  patrolman.

[Ceindreadh]

4 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I would really love to watch a show about an IA squad! That would be a great idea. No limit on different kinds of cases they could be investigating cops and figuring out if they are dirty or not. There's no shortage of cases they could draw from. 

Line of Duty is a UK show based around an anti-corruption police unit. I presume it’d be the equivalent of IA. 

[CoderLady]

7 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

Line of Duty is a UK show based around an anti-corruption police unit. I presume it’d be the equivalent of IA. 

I'd watch the hell out of an American series if it was as good as Line of Duty.

[Dr.OO7]

Ashes To Crashes

Every single time someone is cremated, something happens that results in the ashes being spilled.

It's just tacky and disrespectful.

[Melina22]

1 minute ago, Camille said:

Every single time someone is cremated, something happens that results in the ashes being spilled.

It's just tacky and disrespectful.

So true. It's the only reason ashes are ever mentioned apparently. 

Two tropes that have really annoyed me lately :

First, almost every show has people tied to chairs. It's constant. I mean, how common is this really? At this very moment, are there people tied to chairs all over North America? (I hope not.) 

Second, the ridiculous trope I keep seeing where a young girl, a woman, or occasionally a guy, tries on high heels for the first time, and you'd swear they were on stilts. They're teetering and falling constantly. Sure, heels get some getting used to, but it's not like trying to ride a unicycle. They're just not that hard to walk in, unless they're ultra, ultra high stilettos, and even then... 

[Dr.OO7]

52 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

First, almost every show has people tied to chairs. It's constant. I mean, how common is this really? At this very moment, are there people tied to chairs all over North America?

And when they're untied, we get the inevitable "Cuffs Off, Rub Wrists". I just saw a Chicago PD episode where they rescued a little girl who was tied up in this manner and even SHE did it. AARGH.

[janie jones]

1 hour ago, Camille said:

And when they're untied, we get the inevitable "Cuffs Off, Rub Wrists". I just saw a Chicago PD episode where they rescued a little girl who was tied up in this manner and even SHE did it. AARGH.

I think I do this when I take off my watch.

[Bort]

I would imagine that in reality, if one is tied up or handcuffed, the wrists are bound tightly enough that they chafe and it restricts blood flow. So I find that to be a touch of realism.

[Dr.OO7]

4 hours ago, kariyaki said:

I would imagine that in reality, if one is tied up or handcuffed, the wrists are bound tightly enough that they chafe and it restricts blood flow. So I find that to be a touch of realism.

It is, actually. It just still annoys me.

[Melina22]

12 hours ago, janie jones said:

I think I do this when I take off my watch.

Good practice for when you're tied to a chair which, according to TV, is almost inevitable. 

[janie jones]

Ha!  Today I caught myself moving my ring out of the way and rubbing my finger in the same way.

[Spartan Girl]

The nice stable love interest getting fridged.

I speak of poor Bob on Stranger Things. He was genuinely a great guy who loved Joyce and cared about the kids. And even though they weren't exactly sold on Bob and his dorky dad attempts, Jonathan and Will were supportive enough of Joyce dating him.

And then he got killed off. Presumably to make space for a Hopper/Joyce hookup. I mean, I like Hopper and all but Bob was so damn likable that it doesn't seem fair. But at least he went out a hero -- the Goonies would be proud.

[janie jones]

9 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Bob was so damn likable

This led me to believe the entire season that he was secretly a bad guy, so while he was nice, I was never fond of him.

[Dr.OO7]

I dislike any trope that falls under "Double Standard".  I can't stand it when certain behaviors are portrayed as a-ok for one set of people, but despicable for another.

[catlover79]

On 7/16/2019 at 11:40 AM, Camille said:

I dislike any trope that falls under "Double Standard".  I can't stand it when certain behaviors are portrayed as a-ok for one set of people, but despicable for another.

Or as I call it, the "do as I say, not as I do" trope.

[Dr.OO7]

Protagonist Centered Morality.

One of the Double Standard tropes.

"If a recurring/secondary/tertiary character were saying/doing this, it would be godawful. But it's the lead character, so it's just perfect and wonderful!"

[catlover79]

1 hour ago, Camille said:

Protagonist Centered Morality.

One of the Double Standard tropes.

"If a recurring/secondary/tertiary character were saying/doing this, it would be godawful. But it's the lead character, so it's just perfect and wonderful!"

Again, Olivia Benson is the QUEEN of this trope. 😷

[Danny Franks]

On ‎7‎/‎23‎/‎2019 at 1:21 AM, Camille said:

Protagonist Centered Morality.

One of the Double Standard tropes.

"If a recurring/secondary/tertiary character were saying/doing this, it would be godawful. But it's the lead character, so it's just perfect and wonderful!"

Hospital shows are the kings of this trope. I lost count of the amount of times Doug Ross or Luka Kovac would pull some unethical. illegal but 'morally righteous' bullshit that would leave someone else in an impossible situation, but we cheer them because they end up being right. Or at least still morally intact and smug.

And let's not even get started on House.

[Anduin]

In TV and movies, if a stray ball is heading towards you, you catch it easily with hand or foot, and send it back to its owner, who also catches it easily. In real life, though, I'm just not highly coordinated. I don't embarass myself, but I don't look graceful either.

[Luckylyn]

I enjoy the couple falling in love while pretending to be a couple trope.   I hate the while they’re pretending to be a couple they decide they must have a public fight to break up the fake relationship.  Since when are public break ups mandatory?  In my experience, I find out about my friends break ups second had because they usually happen privately.    Only one person I know had a public break up and that’s when she realized her boyfriend was married when she accidentally ran into him and his wife at a street fair which lead to an ugly argument.   The type of break up I most commonly see is ghosting where one partner just stops communicating and seeing someone without bothering to have the break up conversation.  One guy moved out of his girlfriend’s apartment while she was at work and left her a break up voicemail.   A lot of people try to avoid ugly break up scenes and so the fake couple must have a public break up to be believable never works for me. 

[DoctorAtomic]

15 minutes ago, Luckylyn said:

Only one person I know had a public break up and that’s when she realized her boyfriend was married when she accidentally ran into him and his wife at a street fair which lead to an ugly argument.

You could pitch an entire tv pilot just around these scene.

[DearEvette]

On 7/22/2019 at 8:21 PM, Camille said:

Protagonist Centered Morality.

One of the Double Standard tropes.

"If a recurring/secondary/tertiary character were saying/doing this, it would be godawful. But it's the lead character, so it's just perfect and wonderful!"

Ugh.  I hate this.  I hate it when a show tries to tell me that a lead character doing terrible things is ok by making everyone else around him in the show give them a pass and creating plot apologia. 

But I also hate it in fandom discussion when fans give them a pass.  Or even worse, dogpile on a secondary character for rightly calling the main character on their shitty behavior.  It is the acceptance of it that allows the trope to flourish. 

[Bastet]

4 hours ago, Luckylyn said:

I hate the while they’re pretending to be a couple they decide they must have a public fight to break up the fake relationship.

This reminds me of what bugs me about characters pretending to be a couple: they always act sickeningly sweet, with ridiculous pet names, constant hand-holding, and overall schmoopiness. Yes, some real couples act like that, but most couples interact normally.  It's not necessary to act like a lovesick fool to play at being a couple.  Just once, when it's cops doing it as a cover, I would really like to have the bad guy watch their routine and just laugh, saying they're obviously cops and walking away without doing what they were trying to catch him in the act of.

[Domenicholas]

Speaking of couples, I hate when the usually male half of the couples break up with their significant other because it's too dangerous to be with him/she couldn't handle his life/he's doing it for her benefit. It always comes off as condescending, so I love it when the usually female half tells him that it's her choice/for her to decide what's too dangerous for her, and he has no right to decide that for her.

[Annber03]

7 hours ago, Anduin said:

In TV and movies, if a stray ball is heading towards you, you catch it easily with hand or foot, and send it back to its owner, who also catches it easily. In real life, though, I'm just not highly coordinated. I don't embarass myself, but I don't look graceful either.

I always like it when I see a character on TV who sucks at sports, 'cause I can relate very well to that :D. If a ball's coming at me, my first instinct is to put my hands up and duck. Which is fine if you're playing dodgeball, but for any other game involving a ball...:p. 

[DoctorAtomic]

39 minutes ago, Domenicholas said:

It always comes off as condescending, so I love it when the usually female half tells him that it's her choice/for her to decide what's too dangerous for her, and he has no right to decide that for her.

And then she dies and he quits because he has too much manpain.

[Bort]

15 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

And then she dies and he quits because he has too much manpain.

That's also a trope: fridging.

[DrSpaceman]

Not sure what this is called, or if it has a name, but Orange is the New Black :

Spoiler

Doggett takes a GED test and isn't given extra time for her dyslexia, so she thinks she surely failed and is all mad and upset.  So much so that she decides to go back to drugs, dies that night

Of course it ended up she passed the test anyway, we learn later, which I think every view could see coming

Happens a lot, someone thinks they surely failed at some test and ends up doing something stupid and irreversible, only to later find out they passed

Edited July 30, 2019 by Drogo
Added spoiler tags.

[Blergh]

 There's something else I hate about Orange is the New Black as well as Empire, Mayans MC and Snowfall,etc.: they   pretend to   conjure sympathy for oppressed folks of different backgrounds but, IMO, in actuality  do nothing but  get used by   phobes to 'validate' (for them)  some of the worst stereotypes that folks of different backgrounds which make it all that much worse for those of different backgrounds doing their best to try to be given a fair shot by being fair and honest ! Maybe we'll call it Left-Handed Stereotyping!

[Anduin]

25 minutes ago, Blergh said:

 There's something else I hate about Orange is the New Black as well as Empire, Mayans MC and Snowfall,etc.: they   pretend to   conjure sympathy for oppressed folks of different backgrounds but, IMO, in actuality  do nothing but  get used by   phobes to 'validate' (for them)  some of the worst stereotypes that folks of different backgrounds which make it all that much worse for those of different backgrounds doing their best to try to be given a fair shot by being fair and honest ! Maybe we'll call it Left-Handed Stereotyping!

What's left-handed about this? I'm a proud lefty myself.

[Blergh]

22 minutes ago, Anduin said:

What's left-handed about this? I'm a proud lefty myself.

IMO, those shows PRETEND to be championing the progress of minorities but, via promoting the WORST criminal stereotypes as somehow being the archtypes for said minorities  are Minstrel Shows for the New Millennium!  Hence; Left-Handed Bigotry! 

Edited July 29, 2019 by Blergh

[Anduin]

4 minutes ago, Blergh said:

IMO, those shows PRETEND to be championing the progress of minorities but, via promoting the WORST criminal stereotypes as somehow being the archtypes for said minorities  are Minstrel Shows for the New Millennium!  Hence; Left-Handed Bigotry! 

Yeah, I see what you mean. But I'm not fond of left being associated with the wrong way. It's the correct way!

[DearEvette]

16 hours ago, DrSpaceman said:

Not sure what this is called, or if it has a name, but Orange is the New Black :
 

Spoiler

Doggett takes a GED test and isn't given extra time for her dyslexia, so she thinks she surely failed and is all mad and upset.  So much so that she decides to go back to drugs, dies that night

Of course it ended up she passed the test anyway, we learn later, which I think every view could see coming

Happens a lot, someone thinks they surely failed at some test and ends up doing something stupid and irreversible, only to later find out they passed

Sounds like the 'Gave Up too Soon' trope.

[kiddo82]

13 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Hospital shows are the kings of this trope. I lost count of the amount of times Doug Ross or Luka Kovac would pull some unethical. illegal but 'morally righteous' bullshit that would leave someone else in an impossible situation, but we cheer them because they end up being right. Or at least still morally intact and smug.

And let's not even get started on House.

Jack Bauer.

But word on Doug Ross.  I got back into ER a few years ago thanks to Pop and I forgot how insufferable he could be,  

[andromeda331]

9 hours ago, Bastet said:

This reminds me of what bugs me about characters pretending to be a couple: they always act sickeningly sweet, with ridiculous pet names, constant hand-holding, and overall schmoopiness. Yes, some real couples act like that, but most couples interact normally.  It's not necessary to act like a lovesick fool to play at being a couple.  Just once, when it's cops doing it as a cover, I would really like to have the bad guy watch their routine and just laugh, saying they're obviously cops and walking away without doing what they were trying to catch him in the act of.

Yeah their doing all that stuff and never bother to come up with story how they met. They always look completely shocked their asked How they met? Where did they go on their first date? You know normal questions that would be asked. Everyone should see right through that.

[SVNBob]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

Yeah their doing all that stuff and never bother to come up with story how they met. They always look completely shocked their asked How they met? Where did they go on their first date? You know normal questions that would be asked. Everyone should see right through that.

When this subject came up in the "Things that only happen on TV thread" last year, I posted this lovely subversion of this trope from the British sitcom Spaced.

Edited July 30, 2019 by SVNBob
Fixing the video link

[janie jones]

19 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Yeah their doing all that stuff and never bother to come up with story how they met. They always look completely shocked their asked How they met? Where did they go on their first date? You know normal questions that would be asked. Everyone should see right through that.

I never understand why they don't just say how they actually met.

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, janie jones said:

I never understand why they don't just say how they actually met.

That would make sense.

[Ceindreadh]

8 hours ago, janie jones said:

I never understand why they don't just say how they actually met.

IIRC, they did that once in NCIS LA with Deeks and Kensi who were undercover as a married couple (this being before they got together on the show). The best part was that we’d actually seen that meeting onscreen when Deeks showed up as a guest star. 

[catlover79]

On 7/29/2019 at 9:36 AM, Anduin said:

In TV and movies, if a stray ball is heading towards you, you catch it easily with hand or foot, and send it back to its owner, who also catches it easily. In real life, though, I'm just not highly coordinated. I don't embarass myself, but I don't look graceful either.

That is so me. I'm the one who ducks when a foul ball comes my way at Indians games. 😳😂

[janie jones]

I had been afraid of sports balls flying at my face ever since I got hit in the face by a softball in PE in 8th grade (I had threadmarks on my face the rest of the day).  So in 10th grade in PE, when I caught a football , I was so pleased with myself that I got tagged because I didn't run anywhere.  Which is probably something  you'd see on TV.