S05.E05: Crazytown

[helenamonster]

Quote

Dr. Park and Dr. Murphy treat an elderly Asian man brought to St. Bonaventure by his daughter after being the victim of a hate crime. In addition, Lea goes behind Shaun’s back to help raise his negative patient satisfaction scores.

Original airdate: 11/1/21

[greekmom]

Wonder if Salen will reprimand Lea. 

 

[Annber03]

Interesting setup to start writing Mateo out. I liked Lim's interaction with the ex. And I liked Asher's advice to her, too. 

Glad things worked out with the father and daughter in the end, too, though overriding someone's wishes like that can indeed be a very risky thing to do. But I could sympathize with the daughter not wanting to lose her dad, too.

But oof, those comments. And Lea's decision...yeah, that's gonna come back to bite both of them down the line. They'd been doing so well with talking things out together up to now. And speaking of things coming back to bite someone, I'm wary of Salen's interest in inviting Andrews out for dinner.

So Glassman's off in Montana, eh? 

Another two week break, boo. 

[statsgirl]

I'm not against metrics but shouldn't the rating be on accuracy of diagnosis and treatment success, not likability?

Reznick would not make a good mother because she's too focused on getting ahead in her profession. The best things she could do was pick a good father.

The Korean guy didn't want the surgery because he wanted to be strong for his daughter. Why did not one point out that staying alive be the best way to be there for her?

Lea's default of going to Glassman with "Shaun needs you" is no way to go into a marriage. Shaun seems to know that he can be independent of Glassman but Lea hasn't got the message yet.

[Virtual]

Just my personal opinion, all the lives that Shaun has saved in his time as a doctor pretty much outweigh any negative review he gets. Other doctors weren’t able to save those people that he did due to not having his savant syndrome. People saying he talks weird is nitpicking anyways since there is a billboard telling them he is on the spectrum. But I know there are lots of people out in the world who only focus on little things like that and don’t see the full picture.

Lea have him the best advice though and I agree with it, Shaun should just focus on doing what he is best at and not worry about the negative reviews. Another thing about the world, you will always have doubters no matter what. The challenge is to completely brush it off and keep thriving.

however, Lea shouldn’t have gone behind his back and erased his negative scores. Considering how Salen watches everything like a hawk and micromanages anything that moves, I’d expect her to confront Lea about that.

I guess Mateo is off the show from this episode forward as it was abruptly announced he is leaving the series.

[possibilities]

Salen says decisions should be made without emotions. You'd think she'd be thrilled by Shaun and not give a damn about whether people think he's weird. 

I wonder if Lim will quit and go to the hospital where she can treat people who don't have money. In the real world, maybe. But since it's tv and they don't want to have a split cast, I guess not. But it sure looks like Salen is fixing to demote her and promote the man she alleges she wants to go to dinner with sans professional implications. Sure! That's an honest statement, honey! Sign right here to prove it. [rolling my eyes]

I have no idea what Park sees in Resnik. I really don't get it. They seem completely mismatched.

 

 

[Zonk]

What asshole gives such a review after a doctor just saved your father's life from brain cancer and with very little limits to his quality of life?

I could see the score not being great, since those are very specific questions about if you felt heard or things were explained well to you, etc. but the written portion? That's just cringe.

For the record if you saved my mother's life you could call me a stupid little piggy instead of my actual name every time you talk to me and I'd leave a good review.

And on top of that, she knows Shaun has ASD, it's on a 10 meter high billboard. So she knows he didn't behave that way because he didn't like her or was just a dick.

House got better reviews than this and he was just an asshole.

4 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I'm not against metrics but shouldn't the rating be on accuracy of diagnosis and treatment success, not likability?

That's pretty much what Lea was saying... I think. But Salen wants repeat high paying customers. So people who have money to burn, but not anything actually wrong with them. To those people being pampared is more important than great doctors fixing complicated medical problems. So from her perspective, these metrics make sense.

Edited November 2, 2021 by Zonk

[Good Queen Jane]

10 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Glad things worked out with the father and daughter in the end, too, though overriding someone's wishes like that can indeed be a very risky thing to do.

Apparently not, since this is the second episode in a row where a child went against the parent's specific medical decision, and it worked out both on the medical level and on the personal level. 

So why did they bring Mateo in only to boot him after four episodes? I will miss the eye candy.

[AriAu]

Quote

I'm not against metrics but shouldn't the rating be on accuracy of diagnosis and treatment success, not likability

Quote

Salen says decisions should be made without emotions. You'd think she'd be thrilled by Shaun and not give a damn about whether people think he's weird.

Not when you consider them "customers" rather than "patients"! 

[ShortyMac]

For me, this episode dragged on and on and on...

Shaun and Lea have anti-chemistry. I don't see it. I do not enjoy or buy them together at all, and I do not care one iota about their wedding.

So much focus on Lim and Mateo was boring.

Salen is annoying.

I'm honestly running out of things to like about this show.

[cinsays]

1 hour ago, ShortyMac said:

For me, this episode dragged on and on and on...

Shaun and Lea have anti-chemistry. I don't see it. I do not enjoy or buy them together at all, and I do not care one iota about their wedding.

So much focus on Lim and Mateo was boring.

Salen is annoying.

I'm honestly running out of things to like about this show.

Yeah, with the addition of this Salen owner person and the "romance" between the bitchy Reznick person and the other doctor i am not enjoying it at all.

 

[izabella]

I think this show has lost its way.  With Glassman away, Sean has no one - and refuses to find someone - to help him with his autism.  Running around asking random people how to ingratiate himself with patients was ridiculous.  "You suck and you don't belong here and you are making the wrong decision about your dad, but, hey, your sweater sure highlights your eyes!"  Right.

The addition of Salen as the big boss who is more interested in the bottom line rather than patients is exactly like the new big boss on The Resident, and the new big boss on New Amsterdam...are there no original ideas anymore?  Or are all the medical shows making a point of highlighting just how bad our for-profit health system has become? 

[rmontro]

19 hours ago, Annber03 said:

But oof, those comments. And Lea's decision...yeah, that's gonna come back to bite both of them down the line.

Yeah, those comments were really nasty.  Something like "he appeared to get very excited when my father couldn't breathe, it was very creepy" or whatever the exact words were.  YIkes.  Getting excited about medical symptoms seems to be a hallmark of David Shore medical dramas though.

Lea deleting the comments, yeah she could lose her job.  Could destroy Shaun's trust in her.  Could cause Shaun not to modify his behavior and act really inappropriately.  Big can of worms there.

I also agree with some of the comments that Salen is probably going to give Dr. Andrews Lim's job.  An interesting reversal of fortune.  

19 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Lea's default of going to Glassman with "Shaun needs you" is no way to go into a marriage. Shaun seems to know that he can be independent of Glassman but Lea hasn't got the message yet.

And Glassman appears to have gotten it too.

[Zonk]

1 hour ago, izabella said:

The addition of Salen as the big boss who is more interested in the bottom line rather than patients is exactly like the new big boss on The Resident, and the new big boss on New Amsterdam...are there no original ideas anymore?  Or are all the medical shows making a point of highlighting just how bad our for-profit health system has become? 

Or the new big boss on House. Only there it was season 1.

I assume that happened in all medical shows at some point. It's cheap drama and drama makes for interesting TV, at least in theory.

[preeya]

20 hours ago, Annber03 said:

And Lea's decision...yeah, that's gonna come back to bite both of them down the line.

Perfect example as to why significant others (husbands, wives, boyfriends/girlfriends, partners, etc.) shouldn't be placed in positions where they can influence each other's performance. She should be seriously reprimanded for her actions and or possibly dismissed. (all that said, it likely won't happen)

Edited November 2, 2021 by preeya

[judyri]

I don't get how Lea would be able to DELETE any patient review.  Maybe flag it as SUSPECT or something, but I don't see how an independent system would just allow anyone, even an administrator to DELETE something.  My guess is Salen has a backup someplace on the cloud, and will discover the misdeed.

[KaveDweller]

10 hours ago, AriAu said:

Not when you consider them "customers" rather than "patients"! 

It's a flawed attitude. Dead patients can't be repeat customers either. If my life was at risk and I needed surgery, I wouldn't care if the doctor was "weird," as long as they could do the job. Shaun is great at diagnosing patients and figuring out how to do complicated surgeries. Now if it was just a general physician, I would care more about their bedside manner. I cans see why that patient's daughter was bothered by him, but a lot of what she saw was Shaun not being himself because he was taking other advise about getting good reviews.

Lea deleting the review is going to cause major problems down the line. Plus, it was unnecessary. I don't think Shaun has to worry about losing his job, his face is on a billboard.

[rmontro]

43 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

Lea deleting the review is going to cause major problems down the line. Plus, it was unnecessary. I don't think Shaun has to worry about losing his job, his face is on a billboard.

And Lea told Shaun she believed he could improve his numbers.  Was she patronizing him?

His method was awkward, but I do think he could have found a way to interact better given enough time.  As it is now, he won't even be aware there is a problem.  Not good.

[Court]

Is the actress that plays Leah pregnant? 

[statsgirl]

Is it a co-incidence of a point that will be brought up later that the person with the highest scores,  was the one who was missing from the hospital and not able to treat any patients.

If Salen really does have ADHD, she should know that difficulty in social situations is very common in ADHD and ASD. So is beating yourself up because you don't do it as well as other people and what she is doing. Shaun should get a pass on this kind of testing.  This is a very stupid arc but at least she's not as awful as Vogler.

[Zoe]

3 hours ago, judyri said:

I don't get how Lea would be able to DELETE any patient review.  Maybe flag it as SUSPECT or something, but I don't see how an independent system would just allow anyone, even an administrator to DELETE something.  My guess is Salen has a backup someplace on the cloud, and will discover the misdeed.

Didn't the prompt say to "omit" the review, not delete it?

[KaveDweller]

21 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Is it a co-incidence of a point that will be brought up later that the person with the highest scores,  was the one who was missing from the hospital and not able to treat any patients.

If Salen really does have ADHD, she should know that difficulty in social situations is very common in ADHD and ASD. So is beating yourself up because you don't do it as well as other people and what she is doing. Shaun should get a pass on this kind of testing.  This is a very stupid arc but at least she's not as awful as Vogler.

We actually didn't see comment on Shaun's scores, did we? She told Lim to do better than top 5, but she didn't say anything to Shaun. That was all Lea.

I am sure she wants him to have higher scores, but it seems like she would take his autism into account with regard to the scores, assuming he keeps saving lives. She let him wear the old scrubs and use paper towels.

[bros402]

15 hours ago, Good Queen Jane said:

Apparently not, since this is the second episode in a row where a child went against the parent's specific medical decision, and it worked out both on the medical level and on the personal level. 

So why did they bring Mateo in only to boot him after four episodes? I will miss the eye candy.

I believe the actor was hired as a regular for this season, so yeaaaah, whatever happened had to be something big (Maybe a sick family member?)

I can sort of understand the negative reviews for Shaun, but he is a surgeon. In the real world, a surgeon won't be the guy you see every single time for management or care of a condition. I've been to a doctor who is the kind of genius where you can tell he's a genius the second he walks into a room and he knows it. Total a-hole, but he knows his stuff. Eventually, I stopped seeing him because of how bad his bedside manner was. Now if I knew someone who needed a diagnosis and their doctors had no idea what was going on? I would tell them to go to Dr. A-hole because he knows his stuff.

When you need something like that figured out, you want the guy who is at the top of his field, even if it means he is an ass.

[thuganomics85]

All the stuff involving Lim and an absent Mateo definitely carries with it a sense of there being some kind of scramble due to the actor suddenly leaving the show.  The whole "Actually, Mateo has a history of randomly taking off and leaving his potential partners high and dry!" just feels very sudden and underdeveloped.  I wonder if we will ever find out what actually went down.

No surprise that the whole "rate your doctor" thing would end up just causing more issues for Shaun.  Granted, I'm someone who couldn't care less if regular customer service workers aren't always smiles and fun and they have to be really going out of their way to be rude to annoy/upset me.  So, I would certainly not give a damn if a surgeon is aloof or somewhat awkward/inappropriate if he or she actually knows what they are doing.  But I guess it's not too surprising that the public does what they do best and be the worst.  And, of course, Shaun actually trying to improve things just made things even more awkward.  I swear, it sometimes feels like he can't win.

Of course, none of this means that Lea should have altered the results, which is so going to backfire on her.  Either Salen will figure out something happen or Shaun is going somehow find out and rightfully feel betrayed.  I get that she probably thinks she means well, but Lea really has to figure out that their are ways to help and support Shaun that don't come off like she's patronizing him.

Always good seeing Francois Chau and the case with his character and his daughter was good for what it needed to be.  Especially since it led to a few good scenes for Park and I'm always down for Will Yun Lee getting the spotlight for a bit.

Glassman.... is heading to Paradise?

While I'm not anywhere close to being out, I do feel like this season is starting off weaker compared to last season's surprising good one (despite following Melendez's death, which will always be a bad idea in my eyes.)  I don't know if I'm just missing Claire or I just really, really don't like the Salin character and arc that is coming with it, but I'm just not that invested this time.  But the characters and the actors playing them are still enough to keep me going.

[judyri]

Park should get out of that relationship.  If he's happy, she shouldn't be going on about pushing himself to reach his limits, which would mean burning out and shutting out his son.  She should look at her own family baggage and see that he is right.

[Daff]

On 11/2/2021 at 3:42 AM, Zonk said:

What asshole gives such a review after a doctor just saved your father's life from brain cancer and with very little limits to his quality of life?

And that’s why it’s called “social” media! We know Shawn doesn’t DO or GET the social part. Even with today’s common knowledge about spectrum disorders, people just can’t seem to overlook/dismiss/ignore the abruptness. 

[circumvent]

20 hours ago, ShortyMac said:

For me, this episode dragged on and on and on...

I felt the same.

 

17 hours ago, izabella said:

With Glassman away, Sean has no one - and refuses to find someone - to help him with his autism.

I guess this show does not have an autistic consultant because real autistic people rely on each other, the community, for support. Sean is being written through the lens of a neurotypical person, who things an autistic person would have the same reactions as a non-autistic person when people grade them by a neurotypical stick. Sean would not try the neurotypical approach - appease, agree (or whatever it was said) - to improve his "score". He would either dismiss it as pointless, since he is a doctor and is a good one, or he would find an autistic way of doing things. I could speculate on those ways, but I am pretty sure it would not be by following the recipe of someone who is not autistic and that he didn't know well. I mean, I am not autistic and I would not have just embrace other people's approach.

 

On a personal note, if I were to review doctors and even some nurses in my recent experience at a hospital, the reviews Shaun got would pale in comparison to mine. Just sayin', the system is more broken than we want to believe.

[Virtual]

11 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

We actually didn't see comment on Shaun's scores, did we? She told Lim to do better than top 5, but she didn't say anything to Shaun. That was all Lea.

I am sure she wants him to have higher scores, but it seems like she would take his autism into account with regard to the scores, assuming he keeps saving lives. She let him wear the old scrubs and use paper towels.

I agree there, Salen hasn’t really said anything to Shaun about anything he’s done or his performance while she has done that with the neurotypical doctors.

Less characters is a good thing if it can improve the show’s dynamic. Melendez was killed off, Claire went to work at the Guatemala hospital. Asher and Jordan are pretty much taking their place, although the show can’t seem to find anything to do with them, or Reznick and Park (why not have them talk about what work life was like working under creepy Dr. Coyle versus now; I’d rather see that instead of all the ‘ehh’ stuff they have been going on about this season).

Although I was a tiny bit intrigued by Morgan wanting him to “better himself”. I wonder if that comes from how her family always looked down on her, but she figured it might stop if she became successful (which she was wrong about as they still did that to her).

oh yeah, another important issue: I knew Glassman was going on a road trip of some sorts most likely, but he REALLY just left his garage door wide open when he left? 😂

Edited November 3, 2021 by Virtual

[judyri]

I remember reading somewhere (Oliver Saks?) that a lot of autistic people watch a lot of TV so they 'learn' how to react in social settings.  They may not feel it, as they don't naturally pick up on the social queues, but they can learn to mirror their reactions.  I'm not saying Shaun has to do this, just pointing out that he doesn't seem to try.  Agree with earlier post that he just shouldn't care about this, since it's out of his control.  It's like if someone compliments you on how tall you are. It's not an achievement, it's just how you are.

[tennisgurl]

I feel like if someone is complaining about their doctor being a bit rude after they saved their mom from brain cancer, that says more about the person complaining then the doctor. Its not even like Shaun is intentionally hurtful, he's usually just very blunt and lacking in tact, and considering he's the hospitals literal poster boy for being non neurotypical, you would think people would figure out that he isn't just being "weird'. I would think that, if they wanted to track the metrics of doctors it would be around their success at helping people and not on how likable they are or their customer service skills. I knew that those comments were going to end up hurting Shaun, and while I get why Lea doesn't want his feelings to be hurt, hiding those comments is just going to create even more problems. Salen will certainly be able to see what she did and she might lose her job and Shaun will lose trust in her. 

I don't like Salen at all, why does a show about a hospital need a "villain" anyway? Are the issues in the medical system and the actual illnesses and injuries not villainous enough? Do we need an actual person to boo at? Or will it end up being like last week where they try to make it seem like Salen is actually right about some things? Because it seems like she's both uncaring and incompetent.  

The show writing Mateo out offscreen after four episodes like this after making him a regular just reeks of something happening behind the scenes that made the actor abruptly leave, maybe some personal issues? Its too bad, I liked him and I liked him and Lim together, she really seemed happy after going through so much. 

This season certainly isn't terrible, but it feels a bit off, like its trying to somehow do to much and not enough. 

Edited November 3, 2021 by tennisgurl

[preeya]

3 hours ago, Virtual said:

oh yeah, another important issue: I knew Glassman was going on a road trip of some sorts most likely, but he REALLY just left his garage door wide open when he left? 😂

Alexa will close it .

[Zonk]

6 hours ago, Daff said:

And that’s why it’s called “social” media! We know Shawn doesn’t DO or GET the social part. Even with today’s common knowledge about spectrum disorders, people just can’t seem to overlook/dismiss/ignore the abruptness. 

It's a review system Salen established to evaluate hispotal personal, not social media.

[Daff]

Review how? Answer: by posting comments online (medium) on an open (to clients) “social” site. By your definition, this forum, Yelp, and many other online communities would NOT be considered “social media”. It’s a tool, and you should be aware of what you’re paying for it!

8 minutes ago, Zonk said:

It's a review system Salen established to evaluate hispotal personal, not social media.

 

[Daff]

1 hour ago, preeya said:

Alexa will close it .

I did think about that, but figured he hit the remote or it was on a timer. I was more concerned about the bill he’d come home to, as he left the entire compound lit up like a Christmas Tree!

[cinsays]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

I don't like Salen at all, why does a show about a hospital need a "villain" anyway? Are the issues in the medical system and the actual illnesses and injuries not villainous enough? Do we need an actual person to boo at? Or will it end up being like last week where they try to make it seem like Salen is actually right about some things? Because it seems like she's both uncaring and incompetent.

I agree with this 1000%!!!

This is just ruining the show for me.

[preeya]

4 minutes ago, cinsays said:

I agree with this 1000%!!!

This is just ruining the show for me.

 

4 minutes ago, cinsays said:

I don't like Salen at all, why does a show about a hospital need a "villain" anyway? Are the issues in the medical system and the actual illnesses and injuries not villainous enough? Do we need an actual person to boo at? Or will it end up being like last week where they try to make it seem like Salen is actually right about some things? Because it seems like she's both uncaring and incompetent.

Also, she's already got Dr. Andrews in her corner which will obviously create additional drama.

[bros402]

13 hours ago, circumvent said:

I guess this show does not have an autistic consultant because real autistic people rely on each other, the community, for support. Sean is being written through the lens of a neurotypical person, who things an autistic person would have the same reactions as a non-autistic person when people grade them by a neurotypical stick. Sean would not try the neurotypical approach - appease, agree (or whatever it was said) - to improve his "score". He would either dismiss it as pointless, since he is a doctor and is a good one, or he would find an autistic way of doing things. I could speculate on those ways, but I am pretty sure it would not be by following the recipe of someone who is not autistic and that he didn't know well. I mean, I am not autistic and I would not have just embrace other people's approach.

 

On a personal note, if I were to review doctors and even some nurses in my recent experience at a hospital, the reviews Shaun got would pale in comparison to mine. Just sayin', the system is more broken than we want to believe.

iirc they claimed at some point that they had someone with autism as a consultant or on the writing staff, but yeaaaaaaaaaah they are more writing him like "Alien who appeared on earth and is learning how to operate like an earthling" than "Autistic person who needs help communicating"

 

 

12 hours ago, judyri said:

I remember reading somewhere (Oliver Saks?) that a lot of autistic people watch a lot of TV so they 'learn' how to react in social settings.  They may not feel it, as they don't naturally pick up on the social queues, but they can learn to mirror their reactions.  I'm not saying Shaun has to do this, just pointing out that he doesn't seem to try.  Agree with earlier post that he just shouldn't care about this, since it's out of his control.  It's like if someone compliments you on how tall you are. It's not an achievement, it's just how you are.

I'm autistic and yeah I would say with some TV shows I do sort of look at the reactions, might explain why I hate watch so many shows, because of some of the bad ones will straight out say what people are feeling and why

[Zonk]

16 hours ago, Daff said:

Review how? Answer: by posting comments online (medium) on an open (to clients) “social” site. By your definition, this forum, Yelp, and many other online communities would NOT be considered “social media”. It’s a tool, and you should be aware of what you’re paying for it!

It is not an open forum. You submit your review and nobody can see it. Lea can see it because she is hospital IT.

For something to be social media, it has to actually be "social". That means people have to be able to interact with each other.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Zonk

[possibilities]

11 hours ago, bros402 said:

iirc they claimed at some point that they had someone with autism as a consultant or on the writing staff, but yeaaaaaaaaaah they are more writing him like "Alien who appeared on earth and is learning how to operate like an earthling" than "Autistic person who needs help communicating"

This is why just hiring a token isn't enough. You need to know what you're doing, vet your representatives, hire people who are actually competent, and then also listen to them and put decent writing over bias-confirmation.

[bros402]

11 hours ago, possibilities said:

This is why just hiring a token isn't enough. You need to know what you're doing, vet your representatives, hire people who are actually competent, and then also listen to them and put decent writing over bias-confirmation.

Exactly what I think - if they make a token hire like that, they need to have them actually have a voice.

[letter8358]

What the hell is with these breaks? Two weeks or three weeks....what gives?

[Annber03]

They're in between seasons right now. They just finished airing season 2 last month, and season 3 is airing on the Shudder streaming service right now. It should be on  AMC sometime in the next few months or so, but I don't know when ,exactly. 

[Calvada]

On 11/2/2021 at 4:35 PM, izabella said:

The addition of Salen as the big boss who is more interested in the bottom line rather than patients is exactly like the new big boss on The Resident, and the new big boss on New Amsterdam...are there no original ideas anymore?  Or are all the medical shows making a point of highlighting just how bad our for-profit health system has become? 

The final season of St. Elsewhere back in 1987 also had this story line.  

On 11/2/2021 at 8:50 PM, Court said:

Is the actress that plays Leah pregnant? 

I was wondering that about the actress who plays Reznick.  That scene where she and Park are talking outside the hospital (which ends with Park looking up at the billboard of Shaun) she had the belt of her coat tied on the side, and I thought they were trying to take attention away from her midsection.  Her face seems a bit fuller too.  

[Nessa]

Does Lea actually do any work?  For someone in IT, she seems to do stuff all.  And seriously, only one person in the entire hospital who works in IT?  I might need to get a job there instead of where I am.

[bros402]

1 hour ago, Nessa said:

Does Lea actually do any work?  For someone in IT, she seems to do stuff all.  And seriously, only one person in the entire hospital who works in IT?  I might need to get a job there instead of where I am.

I believe in one episode they claimed she was the head of IT for the hospital.

Maybe she programmed robots to do the rest :P

Although it sounded like from one episode that looks-like-Nicole-Sullivan's company gave them various software - so maybe they have IT staff that works at the hospital, with Lea overseeing their San Jose work off screen

Edited November 17, 2021 by bros402

[ForReal]

On 11/3/2021 at 1:48 PM, preeya said:

 

Also, she's already got Dr. Andrews in her corner which will obviously create additional drama.

Andrews was such a jerk early on and then he came around. I hate to see him be a jerk again.