S01.E10: Open and Shut

[shapeshifter]

1 minute ago, dovegrey said:

Emma or Lucy also writes in block letters, similar to the door notes… Always thought that was odd for a kid. :)

I'm pretty sure one of the last notes was generated by the props people using Comic Sans or a similar font. I thought maybe that was a clue, but I'm letting it go for now, since most of the audience aren't presumed to be font aficionados. 

[dovegrey]

21 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I'm pretty sure one of the last notes was generated by the props people using Comic Sans or a similar font. I thought maybe that was a clue, but I'm letting it go for now, since most of the audience aren't presumed to be font aficionados. 

The note on Oliver's door wasn't Comic Sans. The E's are very different on the same note (so not a typed message using the same font) and don't look like the same message I typed in Comic Sans in Word... The things I do for this silly show. 😆

[shapeshifter]

54 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I'm pretty sure one of the last notes was generated by the props people using Comic Sans or a similar font. I thought maybe that was a clue, but I'm letting it go for now, since most of the audience aren't presumed to be font aficionados. 

30 minutes ago, dovegrey said:

The note on Oliver's door wasn't Comic Sans. The E's are very different on the same note (so not a typed message using the same font) and don't look like the same message I typed in Comic Sans in Word... The things I do for this silly show. 😆

Yeah, I knew it wasn't Comic Sans, just "a similar font." 
I don't have a picture of the note handy. 
But here's something similar in MV Boli font:

 

It's just that the uniformity of the lettering screamed "computer generated text" at me.

[dovegrey]

9 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Yeah, I knew it wasn't Comic Sans, just "a similar font." 
I don't have a picture of the note handy. 
But here's something similar in MV Boli font:

 

It's just that the uniformity of the lettering screamed "computer generated text" at me.

Huh. Good catch. Maybe Jan did write or type that note for her own door, then, to help support the stabbing scenario. 

[DigitalCount]

On 10/19/2021 at 9:24 PM, Corgi-ears said:

It's more likely the case that Cinda's assistant, Poppy, commits the murders; Cinda just takes credit for them.

I've been suspicious of Poppy since seeing her, but I was also suspicious of Jan. My fiancee said I was cheating by relying on tropes, which, yes, but eventually I came to the same conclusion as Oliver: it was incredibly suspicious that Jan survived her attack. The first time I read a book where the killer is attacked and nearly killed by the red herring, I was 12.

(For the record, the thing that made me think that Jan was the killer when I did is that the main character's love interest is often the killer in mystery shows like this; I like to call it the Preston Giles Proposal. Once it was clear it couldn't be Oscar, I felt like it had to be Jan.)

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, dovegrey said:

Maybe Jan did write or type that note for her own door, then, to help support the stabbing scenario. 

Ooo, yes. That makes sense——that Jan put the note on her door to throw off suspicion of herself.
And maybe the prop people deliberately used a typed and printed note with a hand-lettering-style of font as a clue for those of us who would recognize it as computer-generated text——although I was more confused by it than anything——which is fine for a murder mystery. It’s good to confuse us a bit with props, I guess?

If we had ever seen Jan using a printer, I would have been (virtually) shouting here about the uniform lettering of the note being a clue——which would have revealed the killer too soon. So, good job, prop people.  

Edited October 21, 2021 by shapeshifter

[MisterGlass]

My favorite part about Charles flopping around poisoned is that he somehow put his hat on before rolling out of the apartment.

[pennben]

On 10/19/2021 at 12:09 AM, HollyG said:

I loved every minute of this series! Absolutely delightful. Can't wait for next season.

Delightful was the word I was coming here with to frame my comment on the season! Such an apropos descriptor---this season was delightful.  Well done to all involved.  

[Artsda]

Loved this series! The elevator scene with everyone thinking he was drunk was so great.

Can't wait for season 2.

[shapeshifter]

14 minutes ago, Artsda said:

Loved this series! The elevator scene with everyone thinking he was drunk was so great.

I seem to be the only fan of the show that found these bits to be disturbing. 
They did not amuse me, but seemed consistent with Charles being a misunderstood introvert whose life work was acting in front of people.

[Suzn]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I seem to be the only fan of the show that found these bits to be disturbing. 
They did not amuse me, but seemed consistent with Charles being a misunderstood introvert whose life work was acting in front of people.

I didn't care for those bits either.  He could have died at their feet and they wouldn't give a shit.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Suzn said:

I didn't care for those bits either.  He could have died at their feet and they wouldn't give a shit.

Yes. Maybe you and I had not previously watched enough (any?) Steve Martin physical comedy to be primed to be amused by paralyzed Charles flopping around helplessly and being presumed drunk? Like the Parenthood clip posted upthread, for example?

Plus, poison is what killed Tim Kono, so I was worried for that reason too.

If Jan had a line explaining the poison she gave him was not lethal and going to suppress his breathing as most paralytics would, I would have been more predisposed to being amused.

Edited October 23, 2021 by shapeshifter

[dovegrey]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Yes. Maybe you and I had not previously watched enough (any?) Steve Martin physical comedy to be primed to be amused by paralyzed Charles flopping around helplessly and being presumed drunk? Like the Parenthood clip posted upthread, for example?

Plus, poison is what killed Tim Kono, so I was worried for that reason too.

If Jan had a line explaining the poison she gave him was not lethal and going to suppress his breathing as most paralytics would, I would have been more predisposed to being amused.

Not to pile on or jump on the proverbial bandwagon, but the only poisoned Charles scenes I laughed at were him using his nose to work his phone (done that!) and him worming to the Sting song as a resident sees him and decides to nope right on out. I didn’t think anything inside the elevator related to Charles was amusing (I love Howard though), and I didn’t think anything in the basement was funny. It devalued the show in terms of making the poisoning angle a non threatening punchline, after/while spending 10 episodes trying to convince me that Tim’s poisoning death by the same woman and with the same substance was profound.

(Another unpopular opinion, and which is only my opinion: I never thought Parenthood was funny and didn’t find the clip funny at all. I think this is why it took me so long to really get into the show; so much of the “comedy” feels like in jokes that perhaps rely on admiring Martin and Short. And I grew up on Steve Martin, not Selena Gomez, so maybe I’m just a crotchety person LOL.)

[shapeshifter]

10 minutes ago, dovegrey said:

the only poisoned Charles scenes I laughed at were him using his nose to work his phone (done that!) and him worming to the Sting song

Charles nose bringing up a Sting song was one of the very few moments I laughed too
--and I've never tried using my nose on my phone.

[foxfreakinmulder]

On 10/19/2021 at 6:35 AM, cardigirl said:

So Winnie and the threatening note to Oliver may be another loose thread not tied up.  

Yeah, and what about the note on Jan's door?

Really enjoyed this season, can't wait for season 2.

[MisterGlass]

I can see how Charles being poisoned can go either way as comedy.  I took it more as him drugged than life-threateningly poisoned since she immediately hinted that fireplace gas was her real plan.

[chediavolo]

I must be the only one who felt the finale was not as good as the rest of the series. Still loved the show & will return for season 2  but something felt not quite as perfect as the previous parts. I also thought Steve Martin crawling around went on a tad too long. 

[dovegrey]

9 hours ago, MisterGlass said:

I can see how Charles being poisoned can go either way as comedy.  I took it more as him drugged than life-threateningly poisoned since she immediately hinted that fireplace gas was her real plan.

My biggest problem with it is that Mabel and Oliver didn’t know that Charles wasn’t in absolute life ending danger. They thought he drank poison, like Tim. Mabel thought he needed his stomach pumped, so she for sure had no idea what really happened and Charles had no way of communicating it. All the information that they had was that Charles was going to die of poison like Tim….and it was played for visual gags and laughs.

Me rambling more than responding to the quoted reply: This is why the middle of the finale didn’t work at all for me; it wasn’t internally consistent with the show up until that point, IMO (and there goes good comedy). The basement never would have happened; they would have pulled the fire alarm, called the police, one of them MAYBE would have gone down there, and the other would have rushed Charles to the hospital, thinking he was going to die like Tim. Instead they stuffed him into a dog carrier and ran around the Arconia. (I laughed at the visual of that.) I feel like it was a first draft script that didn’t get refined.

I also spent some time screaming at the TV as Oliver poured alcohol (Gut Milk) down Charles’ throat to “counteract” the poison. The poison on Tim’s tox screen, and that I took Jan as using on Charles, is a barbiturate, which is the same type of drug as alcohol (CNS depressant)….when those two are mixed, effects are potentiated and you’re even more likely to overdose. It’s like someone dying of alcohol poisoning and pouring alcohol down their throat to try to save them, only worse because it’s a freaking barbiturate. No way Oliver knows all that, but he knew Gut Milk has a high alcohol level, so…why did he do that!!! I was trying to leap through the TV to stop him. So maybe that took away some of my goodwill for the rest of the Jan stuff.

Edited October 24, 2021 by dovegrey
details

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, dovegrey said:

My biggest problem with it is that Mabel and Oliver didn’t know that Charles wasn’t in absolute life ending danger. They thought he drank poison, like Tim. Mabel thought he needed his stomach pumped, so she for sure had no idea what really happened and Charles had no way of communicating it. All the information that they had was that Charles was going to die of poison like Tim….and it was played for visual gags and laughs.

Me rambling more than responding to the quoted reply: This is why the middle of the finale didn’t work at all for me; it wasn’t internally consistent with the show up until that point, IMO (and there goes good comedy). The basement never would have happened; they would have pulled the fire alarm, called the police, one of them MAYBE would have gone down there, and the other would have rushed Charles to the hospital, thinking he was going to die like Tim. Instead they stuffed him into a dog carrier and ran around the Arconia. (I laughed at the visual of that.) I feel like it was a first draft script that didn’t get refined.

I also spent some time screaming at the TV as Oliver poured alcohol (Gut Milk) down Charles’ throat to “counteract” the poison. The poison on Tim’s tox screen, and that I took Jan as using on Charles, is a barbiturate, which is the same type of drug as alcohol (CNS depressant)….when those two are mixed, effects are potentiated and you’re even more likely to overdose. It’s like someone dying of alcohol poisoning and pouring alcohol down their throat to try to save them, only worse because it’s a freaking barbiturate. No way Oliver knows all that, but he knew Gut Milk has a high alcohol level, so…why did he do that!!! I was trying to leap through the TV to stop him. So maybe that took away some of my goodwill for the rest of the Jan stuff.

I went through these exact thought scenarios👆 while watching too.
Not amused (except when Charles pulled up Sting's song accidentally with his nose on his phone).

We were probably supposed to laugh because we knew they weren't going to kill off Charles.

But instead of laughing, my mind was racing with every new obstacle to Charles being saved in time.

For instance, while watching, I found myself flashing back 35 years to a dinner party, when cocaine lines were being passed around, and I "did" one too. It was my only time. Very quickly, starting with my hands and going up my arms I began to grow rigid and unable to move. I left and went to my apartment next door. A friend came to see if I was alright. I asked her to get me some antihistamine pills and water--thinking it was an allergic reaction. I don't know what my reaction was, technically/biologically speaking, but the antihistamines reversed whatever was happening.
My point is:
The antihistamines are a sedative (like alcoholic Gut Milk).
The cocaine was a stimulant.
So I decided the particular poison Jan gave Charles was some sort of stimulant to make his muscles rigid, and the alcohol in Gut Milk would counteract it.
Instead of laughing, I'm distracted with this life-and-death memory while watching poor Charles.

But Charles did seem to be effected by a sedative. 
Maybe it was supposed to be a joke that the Gut Milk that Oliver gave to Charles would have killed him quicker if Charles had been able to swallow?

Maybe we were supposed to laugh because we knew they weren't going to kill off Charles?

I'm okay with a little "gallows humor," but I agree that it went on too long. 
Since watching this finale, I watched the video of an old, equally lengthy slapstick bit that Steve Martin did in Parenthood in the 80s, posted upthread by
@ItsHelloPattiagain: https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/123188-s01e10-open-and-shut/?do=findComment&comment=7071889
--which was mildly amusing.
Steve Martin's character quickly pops back up after all of what would-be seriously injurious prat falls IRL.
I guess we were supposed to be familiar with and fans of Steve Martin's physical comedy.

I haven't rewatched this episode--partly because I don't need to look for clues, but also because it was upsetting.
But I think I will rewatch and see if I am more amused now that I know it's supposed to be funny and that Charles is okay (physically) at the end.

I will try to see if there's any expression on Charles' face when Mabel says he needs his stomach pumped, and if it is at all amusing to me, as a viewer.

But I've never thought slipping on a banana peel is funny, and I am horrified by most of America's Funniest Videos.

Edited October 24, 2021 by shapeshifter

[cardigirl]

Re the discussion of the comedy in the final episode: I had concerns that one of the original three might not make it to series 2, so even though I was laughing/crying through all of the poisoning antics of Charles-Hayden in the elevator and Mabel and Oliver trying to get to him in time, I still had concerns about some catastrophic event occurring. It would have given the series a bit of gravitas, to say the least.  But I never thought it crossed the line. My only squeamish point was Jan lifting poor Tim's head to put the gun in his mouth.  Apparently he died just seconds before she did that.  Ugh. 

I certainly wasn't dissecting the episode to the extent that @shapeshifter or @dovegrey seemed to and I am sad that the episode didn't work for you two as much as it did for me. I figured out early that the poison was in the handkerchief rather than the drink, but wouldn't it still be in his bloodstream? Maybe pumping his stomach wasn't the correct thing to do, but Gut Milk has magical properties (at least for this world that was built for OMITB) and can counteract or at least slow down poison. I had no qualms about that and was glad of the callback to Gut Milk. 

Physical comedy can be very individualistic, and some of Steve Martin's work in the Father of the Bride movies does not make me laugh, but this episode had me howling.  I wasn't expecting to be laughing in the finale, and so was taken by surprise by how much I laughed.
"Siri, I don't feel good."  "Okay, playing Fields of Gold by Sting"  HahahahahAHAHHA! 

I was still expecting a final twist somewhere, never suspecting that the final twist was going to be Mabel left "holding the bag" with a dead Bunny at her feet. Way to go show!  I'm all set up for next season!  Maybe we'll find out about the engagement ring, who poisoned Winnie, who left the notes on the doors, and where Oscar keeps disappearing to. 😉

Can't wait!

Edited October 25, 2021 by cardigirl

[Rlb8031]

On 10/21/2021 at 4:10 PM, shapeshifter said:

  On 10/21/2021 at 4:06 PM, dovegrey said:

Emma or Lucy also writes in block letters, similar to the door notes… Always thought that was odd for a kid. :)

I just finished watching season 7 of Bosch where the police LT was being harassed by unknown persons. She figured out it was a cop "because cops are taught to write all uppercase in the academy". So from now on whenever it's uppercase ransom notes/death threats I'm blaming it on police!

[Melina22]

I was mildly disappointed by the first several episodes of this show, so I waited till today to watch the last two episodes, and then found myself truly enjoying them. I laughed out loud a lot, Serena no longer annoyed me, Jane Lynch was great, and I thought Amy Ryan did a wonderful job portraying Jan in all her fiendishly gleeful murderousness. 

I laughed a lot at Martin Short as always, but was especially happy to see Steve revert to his signature physical comedy, which I first loved back in the 70s. (Yikes.) 

I'll definitely watch season 2. 

[judyri]

Ryan Broussard as Will, Oliver's son

 

Ryan is a Brown MFA Alum (class of 2019), we saw him in many productions at their small, intimate theater in Providence.  So glad to see him have network success, even a small part, what an opportunity to work with such a fantastic cast!

[FGomez]

The plot is horrible. So much nonsense. And not a single clue before chapter 9 that could point to Jan at all (the bassoon sounded different? really?). I won't be here for season 2.

- Jan lives at the 10th or 12th floor ... why was Tim taking the elevator at the 6th floor in the first chapter?

- How Oscar expected to find Tim at his apartment when everybody was down the stairs running out of the building because of the alarm?

- So Tim was looking for the jewels from a gangster to solve a murder, but then he is killed ... by a random crazy woman?

- What contact had Jan at the police department so she knew the drugs analysis wouldn't be done?

- How Teddy Dimas got all those dead bodies?

- Well, the size of the building is huge, like 20 apartments per floor, but there is only 7 according to Mabel drawing? Is there only one way to go out to the street? How can Jane send the invitation down Brazzos' door after just 10 seconds she stops playing?

 

[aradia22]

tbh, Jan felt a little anticlimactic even though it made sense (kind of... if you can convince yourself that Tim and Jan had an affair) but they brought it back together at the end and I am interested enough in Bunny's murder to come back for season 2

[aradia22]

Lingering questions: What was the sound the psychiatrist complained to Lester about? Like someone was shoveling snow above his office? (It was the conversation that Theo watched in that episode focused on his POV.)

Did Tim really get fired for just being bad at his job and making poor investments? 

Will Oscar's ex-wife appear in season 2?

Quote

Does this place have something called "security cameras"? I imagine it'd be fairly easy to exonerate Mabel, if so.

If they do have security cameras, how has Lester never noticed everyone breaking into each other's apartments?

Quote

So what was the story with Tim's garbage bag and the suicide notes? 

I assume that since it was Jan's garbage, she had set it up with the notes in case someone went looking or else she really was practicing how to write the note. Though the clue of two glasses would have been suspicious. Who throws away non-disposable glasses?

[Zonk]

Called Jan two episodes ago when she was the only major character left who could have been it realistically. There was just nobody else left.

Which with a show about true crime, maybe they should have subverted my expectations and made it somebody out of left field, one of the minor characters or maybe somebody we had never seen. But that probably wouldn't have flown in a season one. But I could see it happening in season two.

On 10/19/2021 at 3:35 PM, cardigirl said:

Also wanted to say that Jan was a real psycho (Great job by Amy Ryan) but never admitted to poisoning Winnie.  Hmmmmm. The cat appeared to have been accidental. So Winnie and the threatening note to Oliver may be another loose thread not tied up.  

She didn't have to confess. She was tied to Winnie's poisoning through the notes.

[DoctorAtomic]

I wanted it to circle back to Sting. 

[cardigirl]

On 12/6/2021 at 7:46 PM, Zonk said:

Called Jan two episodes ago when she was the only major character left who could have been it realistically. There was just nobody else left.

Which with a show about true crime, maybe they should have subverted my expectations and made it somebody out of left field, one of the minor characters or maybe somebody we had never seen. But that probably wouldn't have flown in a season one. But I could see it happening in season two.

She didn't have to confess. She was tied to Winnie's poisoning through the notes.

The note about Winnie was not one of the notes Charles was looking at when he figured out it was Jan. 

[Mrs. Landingham]

On 11/30/2021 at 7:23 PM, aradia22 said:

What was the sound the psychiatrist complained to Lester about? Like someone was shoveling snow above his office?

I was wondering about this, too. There are several loose ends, such as the one mentioned by another poster about how the Dimas family got all the bodies.

Overall, I absolutely loved this show! I haven’t laughed so hard at a show in a very long time. I cannot wait for season 2. The final scene was a brilliant call back to the first scene and I am so impatient to see what will happen. 

[GaT]

On 11/24/2021 at 10:43 AM, FGomez said:

- How Teddy Dimas got all those dead bodies?

 

46 minutes ago, Mrs. Landingham said:

I was wondering about this, too. There are several loose ends, such as the one mentioned by another poster about how the Dimas family got all the bodies.

Teddy owns a funeral home

[Mrs. Landingham]

Oh, thanks, I missed that. 

[momo]

On 10/19/2021 at 12:54 PM, Abra said:

25 years to life, apparently.

 

 

Good one!

I KNEW I'd like this and finally got to watch it.  Not a New Yorker, but like NY movies and got a good show without Woody Allen.  Loved Martin Short's meta comments!  Steve Martin's face in Winnie's carrier- with the straight mouth 😐

Was thinking, what if Mabel finished her paintings, turned around and Oscar was there... then he fades away- was it all her imagination?  🙃

Edited January 10, 2022 by momo
Forgot to mention Steve Martin's face :-| <-

[retired watcher]

Steve Martin being rolled around in the dog stroller made me crack up. I was not offended by the poison scenes because it's part comedy. That is Steve Martin's forte.

[paramitch]

I really enjoyed this, but I admit I was a little disappointed. I found some of it a little frustrating and inconsistent, and wish we'd had more suspects and a little more continuity here. Jan monologuing (while very funny) was frustrating because I just felt it was indicative of the entire episode -- as being very obvious and "well, here's what's supposed to happen."

On 10/20/2021 at 7:30 AM, Milburn Stone said:

Amy Ryan is a fine actress, but "nice" (IMO) is not one of the things she does well. I never bought her in The Office; she was almost a dealbreaker for me in that show, because her portrayal of Holly Flax had no there there. I'm glad Jan turned out to be batshit crazy evil, just to give AR something in her wheelhouse.

Although I'm with you on her talents as a villain (she was stunning in GONE BABY GONE) I have to disagree on her ability to play a nice person -- she was just wonderful in IN TREATMENT as Gabriel Byrne's therapist after Dianne Wiest. She just radiated this kind of warm elegance and detached kindness.

On 10/20/2021 at 5:48 PM, dovegrey said:

I'm not 100% pleased that Jan was Tim's killer, but I'm still finding tiny clues that link Tim and Jan when I have time to put an "old" episode or two (i.e., an asthmatic leaving his window open long enough for a cat to come inside [to hear Jan playing the bassoon, like Charles, the night he died]; the bassoon playing in Episode 1 when Charles had his window open and shortly before Tim was murdered [and it sounded like background music rather than someone playing...I thought it would exonerate her, just like Jan thought]; Jan having safe word sex with boring Charles [while Tim had a box of kinky sex toys]).

To me, this was very clever and consistent. Evidently, Jan is quite adventurous and creative in the sack, and her use of a safe word with Charles (and yes, I laughed out loud) points to a nice consistency there. (And, I mean, I don't kinkshame, LOL, but ON THEIR VERY FIRST DATE, Jan?! Ooookay!)

On 10/20/2021 at 9:08 PM, Blue Plastic said:

Overall I enjoyed the show but didn’t care for the slapstick with Evelyn’s frozen body, had trouble being interested in/following the stuff with the green ring, and was hoping for more of a twist.

That was a part I didn't care for either. I'm just tired of cheap laughs aimed at cat owners (for some reason, it's always cat owners), and while I laughed out loud at the portrait, the idea that he put Evelyn in the freezer (and not even in a bag first) was just ridiculous. And as I said in another thread, within the very same episode or two we are supposed to find dead Evelyn funny (and the genuine sadness of the other residents as weird) but then feel bad for Oliver at Winnie's poisoning. Etc.

t's probably silly to most people but it bothers me. Although I'm admittedly oversensitive because I just watched an episode of SCHITT'S CREEK the last week or so in which a cat's death (and the sadness of its owner -- female, obese and housebound, of course) as hilarious. I love SCHITT'S CREEK but that remains one of the worst episodes of TV I've ever seen.

On 10/23/2021 at 8:25 AM, Artsda said:

Loved this series! The elevator scene with everyone thinking he was drunk was so great.

Can't wait for season 2.

I just couldn't get past the fact that it was obvious Charles was in distress, not drunk. Even in New York (and I miss living there so much!) people should have been like, "Call 911!"

I just felt the scene was badly blocked, and there was a way for Charles to appear drunk there versus so obviously compromised.

On 10/23/2021 at 8:42 AM, shapeshifter said:

I seem to be the only fan of the show that found these bits to be disturbing. 
They did not amuse me, but seemed consistent with Charles being a misunderstood introvert whose life work was acting in front of people.

This. See above. It bothered me too.

On 11/21/2021 at 5:50 PM, judyri said:

Ryan Broussard as Will, Oliver's son

Ryan is a Brown MFA Alum (class of 2019), we saw him in many productions at their small, intimate theater in Providence.  So glad to see him have network success, even a small part, what an opportunity to work with such a fantastic cast!

This is so lovely to hear! There were some great performances throughout the season by people who deserve more attention, not just Ryan, but also James Caverly as Theo, Roy Wood Jr. as Vaughn, Da'Vine Joy Randolph as the Detective, and Maulik Pancholy as the kind neighbor Arnaz (who hooked them up with Cinda and told Charles about his former lover's daughter).

On 12/6/2021 at 7:59 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

I wanted it to circle back to Sting. 

Seriously, part of me still wishes it had all come back to Sting, ending in a slow-mo perp walk by Sting to "Every Breath You Take." Duet for bassoon and concertina. Of course.

Last but not least -- I am sort of odd when it comes to Martin Short. I think he is a brilliant actor, but I have a love/hate thing with a lot of his comedy (I adored him in INNERSPACE, but just never found Jimmy Glick funny for instance, etc.). But he's incredible when given drama -- especially stuff like MERLIN or DAMAGES. And I adored Oliver here -- although I  admit that I am still perplexed that Oliver was really, truly, supposed to be heterosexual. I wish we'd had a view of him as more pan or bisexual, because that feels more applicable to him here to me in terms of how he played Oliver.

But on a side note -- in case it's of interest, I was very affected by Short's autobiography "I MUST SAY," where you really do get a sense of what a thoughtful and sensitive person he is, of his friendship with Martin, and more. I won't give spoilers but I will also say that the final pages had me in tears, in the loveliest way. Incredibly moving.

[Milburn Stone]

3 hours ago, paramitch said:

Although I'm with you on her talents as a villain (she was stunning in GONE BABY GONE) I have to disagree on her ability to play a nice person -- she was just wonderful in IN TREATMENT as Gabriel Byrne's therapist after Dianne Wiest. She just radiated this kind of warm elegance and detached kindness.

I agree with you. I forgot about that role. 

[momo]

On 1/16/2022 at 5:14 AM, paramitch said:

But on a side note -- in case it's of interest, I was very affected by Short's autobiography "I MUST SAY," where you really do get a sense of what a thoughtful and sensitive person he is, of his friendship with Martin, and more. I won't give spoilers but I will also say that the final pages had me in tears, in the loveliest way. Incredibly moving.

Thanks for the tip.  I saw a review that said the audiobook is way better than the print version because Martin Short reads it himself, and I just found it for free on Libby!

[Irlandesa]

20 minutes ago, momo said:

Thanks for the tip.  I saw a review that said the audiobook is way better than the print version because Martin Short reads it himself, and I just found it for free on Libby!

I listened to it as well.  I try to listen to audiobooks of memoirs when the author is an accomplished storyteller.

[paramitch]

I'm so glad y'all read/listened to it! I was very interested in how cerebral and thoughtful he comes across about his work, and he gave some wonderful insights into his years across some truly legendary comedy intersections (Gilda, SNL, Murray, Martin, etc.).

His gentle final paragraphs in tribute to his wife had me in tears.

Short is so interesting to me because I just don't like a lot of his bigger comedic pieces or characters, but I absolutely love his more subtle or mixed dramatic work. I thought he was great here as Oliver -- it was the perfect mix for me.

Next season I just want Oliver to meet a nice man, though, because nothing on earth will ever convince me that he was straight.

[pasdetrois]

On 11/24/2021 at 1:43 PM, FGomez said:

The plot is horrible. So much nonsense. And not a single clue before chapter 9 that could point to Jan at all (the bassoon sounded different? really?). I won't be here for season 2.

I'm kind of with you. I enjoyed the first couple of episodes despite Short's hammy scene-stealing. His character being a desperate, needy director didn't justify that behavior. But then I began to FF through the remaining episodes, skipping some entirely.

However I wanted to know who the murderer was so I watched most of the 10th episode. Loved Martin's physical bits, although they went on too long. Him smooshed into the doggie carriage reminded me of ET and I laughed.

[Barbarblacksheep]

On 1/16/2022 at 5:14 AM, paramitch said:

That was a part I didn't care for either. I'm just tired of cheap laughs aimed at cat owners (for some reason, it's always cat owners), and while I laughed out loud at the portrait, the idea that he put Evelyn in the freezer (and not even in a bag first) was just ridiculous. And as I said in another thread, within the very same episode or two we are supposed to find dead Evelyn funny (and the genuine sadness of the other residents as weird) but then feel bad for Oliver at Winnie's poisoning. Etc.

t's probably silly to most people but it bothers me. Although I'm admittedly oversensitive because I just watched an episode of SCHITT'S CREEK the last week or so in which a cat's death (and the sadness of its owner -- female, obese and housebound, of course) as hilarious. I love SCHITT'S CREEK but that remains one of the worst episodes of TV I've ever seen.

Chiming in very late on this, but yes, thank you for articulating my thoughts on this. I think Evelyn dying (poisoned!) was incredibly sad and the "cat in the freezer" bit was awful (and completely nonsensical). The Office had a "cat in the freezer" episode once too. It bothers me a lot. And I actually stopped watching Schitt's Creek for awhile after the episode you mentioned.  I love all 3 shows here (OMITB, Office, Schitt's Creek), but I really hate it when an animal's death is played for laughs.

[paramitch]

On 9/24/2022 at 8:22 PM, Barbarblacksheep said:

Chiming in very late on this, but yes, thank you for articulating my thoughts on this. I think Evelyn dying (poisoned!) was incredibly sad and the "cat in the freezer" bit was awful (and completely nonsensical). The Office had a "cat in the freezer" episode once too. It bothers me a lot. And I actually stopped watching Schitt's Creek for awhile after the episode you mentioned.  I love all 3 shows here (OMITB, Office, Schitt's Creek), but I really hate it when an animal's death is played for laughs.

If it helps, that episode of "Schitt's Creek" was really a rare low point, it was never mentioned again, and the show continued on to the end (I think that was the final season?) with some really kind, genuinely heartfelt, funny episodes. The end of the show was seriously both funny AND moving.

[Barbarblacksheep]

20 hours ago, paramitch said:

If it helps, that episode of "Schitt's Creek" was really a rare low point, it was never mentioned again, and the show continued on to the end (I think that was the final season?) with some really kind, genuinely heartfelt, funny episodes. The end of the show was seriously both funny AND moving.

Oh, I absolutely adored  Schitt's Creek, I think it's exceptional. I did stop watching for a few weeks after the "low point" episode but I couldn't stay away 🙂 I'm glad I stuck with it.

[SoWindsor]

I'm rewatching the season. Who did Tim Kono get the engagement ring for again? I already don't remember.

[Ohiopirate02]

On 8/18/2023 at 8:29 PM, SoWindsor said:

I'm rewatching the season. Who did Tim Kono get the engagement ring for again? I already don't remember.

He did not get it in order to propose to anyone.  He was working on tracking down the jewelry Teddy Dimas was stealing from the mortuary.  I don't think the show actually stated what Tim was doing with the jewelry once he received it.  He was obviously storing it in his collection of Hardy Boys books, but to what end I do not know.

[SourK]

Okay, I'm coming to this super late and only got to this episode now, but I was so impressed by the first season of this show. It's well-written, it's well-acted -- and in this episode, in particular, there's this close-up where you just watch Amy Ryan cycle through reactions with her eyes as Jan decides whether or not to tell Charles the truth, and it was mesmerizing.

There are so many series these days where it seems like the writers are just making it up as they go, and lurching from plot twist to plot twist -- but this had a structure and a plan, and weird bassoon cleaner that showed up in such an understated way that I completely forgot about it until it came back later.

I'm really glad I gave this a chance, because it was great.