S03.E10: What Is Love?

[peachmangosteen]

1 minute ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I know they escaped, but I wish they showed how.

Didn’t they find the key to open the glass cage? 

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 minute ago, peachmangosteen said:

Didn’t they find the key to open the glass cage? 

Yes, I got mixed up, I thought they were trapped in Love and Joe's house, but I think it was the bakery.

[Alice Mudgarden]

I was really, really hoping Love would kill Joe and take over as narrator/main psycho for the season four I assumed was coming before the message popped up at the end.

For starters, I find Love's brand of crazy more entertaining. She's impulsive due to her emotions, which makes her way more interesting and complex, imo.  Joe is really just your run of the mill narcissist with antisocial personality disorder.

Tbh, I noticed I was getting annoyed with Joe more by the second half of the season, because the cycle was starting itself again, and I found myself really wanting him to get *any* comeuppance. When Love was wielding the cleaver, it felt like it was overdue for Joe to be getting his just desserts.

At least Matthew, Theo, Sherry and Cary were ultimately all okay. I didn't want Matthew to be bested by the Quinn-Goldbergs; I thought Theo was ultimately just a lovestruck teenager trying to do the right thing, even though he's in way over his head; Sherry and Cary are weirdly perfect for each other, and I was happy their awful experience in the container thing brought them closer together in the end. I'm choosing to believe that after everything, Sherry stopped with all of her bitchy, behind-the-back gossiping and just enjoyed life with her opitmized husband.

Oh, and I was happy that Dante and Lansing (I think that's his name?) got the baby they wanted, even if we all know that story isn't done yet. They were lovely, and dropping Henry off at their house was the only good thing Joe did all season. It'll be a shame when he swoops on in like the white knight he thinks he is, ready to ruin Henry's life. Without meaning to, I'd guess, but please. We all know how that one'll turn out.

Edited October 21, 2021 by Alice Mudgarden

[jaigurudeva]

Well, my theory that Theo would kill Joe pettered out. I was also briefly subscribed to the idea that Love would prevail (ha) over Joe because the show was giving her similar voice over narration for a few episodes there and she could've easily taken over completely. Except her murders are generally so impulsive she probably wouldn't get away with it for long without someone there to clean it up and keep her on track with the cover up. That was her fatal flaw in the end: she wasn't good at the long-con murder, since Joe (a meticulous murderer himself) saw it coming a mile away.

I thought for a minute that Marienne was going to kill Love in self-defense. Then Joe would help clean it up (so she doesn't risk custody of Juliette), and Marienne would be kind of forced to stick with Joe because he can hang that over her head. Then the next season would be a corruption arc of Marianne, resulting in her killing Joe to be free. Maybe that's still possible for next season, if Joe doesn't get distracted by some new victim.

So, season 1 dealt with Joe's daddy issues (the little neighbor kid with the abusive dad that he saw himself in) and this season uncovered his mommy issues. Did anyone else expect Joe to push his mother into traffic after she gave him the "fresh start" speech? I really thought that would be Joe's first murder right then and there. We definitely haven't seen the last of his brother, my money is on little bro eventually killing Joe and taking over, or Joe having to kill him after he's horrified to discover that his little bro ended up just like him despite having a more stable and loving upbringing, so he can't blame his parents or circumstances for turning out the way he is.

I really liked this season, I loved the supporting cast (especially Sherry, Cary, Dante, and Lansing) and the critique of the upper middle class and all it's privileged, wacky antics. The crumbling relationship between Love and Joe was fascinating to watch, too. But the finale felt a little anticlimactic. Season one was like a subversion of the "final girl" trope and it was surprising when Beck was killed. Season two had the twist of Love also being a serial killer. This season by comparison just ended fairly predictably and with a few too many deus ex machinae in Joe's pocket to wrap it all up in a nice little bow.

Even when Joe was wrapping up all the side characters' "happily ever afters" at the end it felt a little weird. For one, I barely remembered half of the more minor characters and I feel like Joe himself wouldn't care about who most were and what happened to them in the end, much less that they were all happy (he's mostly just concerned with Henry I think). Here's hoping season 4 gives us more twists and shockers.

[blueroses]

4 hours ago, jaigurudeva said:

I thought for a minute that Marienne was going to kill Love in self-defense. Then Joe would help clean it up (so she doesn't risk custody of Juliette), and Marienne would be kind of forced to stick with Joe because he can hang that over her head. Then the next season would be a corruption arc of Marianne, resulting in her killing Joe to be free. Maybe that's still possible for next season, if Joe doesn't get distracted by some new victim.

 

That would have been amazing.

[AllyB]

I feel personally attacked by this series. When it's warm enough, I live in athleisurewear. But Joe even had to throw shade at comfy sensible clothing in Love's suicide note.

[ally8620000]

So I actually loved this season, regardless of all the handwaving it required. I appreciated the dark humor and it actually reminded me a bit of Santa Clarita Diet with the murder in the suburbs themes. Although obviously much more dramatic. 

A few people mentioned how the adrenaline worked. When Joe found the bottle it said "45 minutes to take effect". He took it when Love went upstairs. Say that took 5 minutes. She came down and told him about it, another 5 minutes. Then she texted Marianne and told Joe she'd be back in 10 minutes, after she dropped off the cupcakes. Based on that Marianne got there about 20-30 minutes after Joe took it so I bought that he was still paralyzed and panicking. 

I also agree about the brother coming back. I'm thinking in the final scene Joe kills his mom and the brother unexpectedly kills Joe. 

Last thought, I rewatched the "Don't get hysterical. I went to a seminar" part way too many times. Absolutely cracked me up.

[AllyB]

I have to admit that from around episode 3 or 4, I assumed Theo was Joe's brother. Before we even knew Joe had a brother who'd have been a similar-ish age. I thought that his backstory of Matthew and Natalie being his ex-stepfather and new wife was done deliberately to ensure we never saw his biological parents at all. It sort of seemed like a weird family set up. Matthew and Theo didn't seem to have much of a relationship at all. Natalie was utterly ambivalent about him. So while a 'child' and a former step-parent can often have a great relationship that they choose to preserve after the end of the marriage to the biological parent, this just didn't seem to be the case here. Matthew was paying for Theo's schooling and that, and a sense of 'should,' seemed to be all that really connected them rather than a genuine loving relationship. So I really did think some big revelation was going to come of it. That Theo was Joe's brother and that he was doing to Love what Joe had done to Beck and other women.

[peachmangosteen]

Oooh, I like that idea @AllyB. They could still go there. I really liked the actor playing Theo so I'd be down for him to return.

[Mabinogia]

On 10/16/2021 at 7:11 AM, Spartan Girl said:

I really hope season 4 will be the last. I’m a little tired of watching Joe get away with everything. He’s long overdue for some comeuppance.

While I mostly enjoyed this season, I was getting a bit bored towards the end because obviously Joe is somehow going to come out on top and even though I like his snarkier VOs and Penn is very lovely to look at, I am completely and utterly over Joe. 

Is it realistic that a narcissistic serial killer would not like finding his actual soul mate because she is a mirror of all the bad that is in him? sure, but if this didn't make him change, if having a child didn't make him change, if someone loving him, even the darkest sides of him didn't make him change, then nothing will. I don't need to watch another season of the same old stalker shit. 

This season, up till the ending, though, was good. 

[Cementhead]

Random thoughts:

Theo was adorable and I am probably too old to be crushing on him but it is what it is.  The heart wants what the heart wants. 

On 10/17/2021 at 6:01 PM, peachmangosteen said:

I didn't like Theo at all at first but by the end I was SO glad he survived. He was a cutie. It did crack me up though that the actor is actually older than the Love actress in real life.

Ok, so I just googled and feel less creepy now knowing that actor Dylan Arnold is 27 yrs. old and not the same age as his 19 yr. old character Theo.  Thank you!

It is a crime to cast Scott Speedman in a thing; only to underutilize him like that.  Even worse is to give him the worst written, most underdeveloped character in the thing and think that is acceptable.  FOR SHAME, show, for shame!

I wasn't really picking up what this season was laying down as much as I wanted to.  I even stopped watching it a few times with no intention of even finishing it which would have been unheard of during my non-stop binging of seasons 1 and 2.  I echo those who have already mentioned that season 4 will heavily feature Joe's mom & brother; otherwise what would have been the point to include the scene where they were introduced? 

On 10/23/2021 at 5:27 AM, AllyB said:

I have to admit that from around episode 3 or 4, I assumed Theo was Joe's brother

Oooh, you are good, @AllyB. Had not even occurred to me until just now!   There must be a reason why Theo was for all intents and purposes dead until he wasn't and why he managed to survive.  This idea will most definitely keep me interested to see where the next season may go.   

Oh and regardless of the story lines or where this show takes us, Penn Badgley undeniably kills it in this show, pun intended.  Perfect example of what happens when the ideal actor is cast in the role.  Both his acting and narrating are stellar and I couldn't imagine anyone else as Joe. 

[tennisgurl]

I love that Sherri and Carey not only survived but parlayed their almost murder into even greater fame and fortune with a cage themed self help book, they are made to be even more than Love and Joe. Those crazy kids. 

I thought this season was really good, I really liked the cat and mouse games between Love and Joe, it made the season different then the last two seasons. I am actually sad that things went the way they did with Love and Joe, I really liked their Bonnie and Clyde act, trying to resist their mutual homicidal urges to live a normal suburban life together, they really were perfect for each other as a murderous/romantic team. Of course that could never work out for Joe, he lives for the chase and for "rescuing" women who needs his protection, not a quiet life with a fellow psychopath. He sees his life as this romcom where he is the good guy who is unlucky in love but keep looking anyway, and that is basically where he likes the story best. His engineered meet cutes', finding out about the tragedy's that he needs to save his leading ladies from, some cute flirtation based on the information Joe gathers, when he can still put them on a pedestal where they can just be perfect and wonderful and in desperate need of Joe's protection. When he actually starts knowing them and their rougher edges, when he is actually with them as an actual person, when they show some of their own agency, he gets bored. Then he gets with the killing. Or with Love, he ends up being so horrified at what she does in the name of her own agency that he hates her for being so much like himself, which could also be some part of why he and Love could never work out. He sees himself as a romantic lead and he sees Love as a villain, and when he looks at Love too much and starts seeing himself, he starts seeing himself as a villain, and he cant have that. I am going to miss Love, I enjoy her brand of crazy, it was a very different and yet often similar strain of Joe's, just a lot more unpredictable. I can usually tell what Joe is going to get up to, but Love was a wild card and I enjoyed that a lot. Without Joe she would have been certainly caught soon though, she was a loose cannon. Granted, its only through the powers of television that Joe gets away with everything, but he is at least methodical. 

He even gave Love the same posthumous goodbye that he gave Beck that led to her finally getting her big break, Joe does love his stories having their grand finales. Joe is the author of the story and he gets to write the ending. I also think its interesting that he tends to be drawn towards upper-class circles, even if he hates them and loves to go on about how everyone in them sucks. He probably deliberately surrounds himself with people and things he hates so that he can feel a constant sense of smug superiority to everyone else, despite all of the terrible things he does. Again, romcom hero, the kind hearted working class boy who loves read going against all of the rich phonies to get the girl, like its an 80s movie with a lot more stabbing.

"I'm gonna need more tarps."

Joe leaving Henry with Dante was probably one of the few really good things that Joe has done, although I can imagine Joe showing up again some day to try and get Henry back, blowing up the poor kids life in the process. At least Henry wont be around his murderous parents, hopefully forever, and can have a real chance. I liked some of the flashbacks to Joe's childhood, but they really didn't tell us anything about Joe that we don't already know. Except that Joe has a brother, who will definitely be coming into play at some point.

This season had a fun supporting cast, especially Sherri and Carey, even if i think some of them ended up being pretty underused. Michael and Theo were both likable if flawed and I am glad they made it out of the season alive, but they didn't end up affecting the plot that much, especially as Matthew spent the whole season trying to find out who killed his wife. That didn't even end up mattering that much, Love and Joe would have ended up where they did no matter how many cameras who was spying on people with as it turned out. 

I am glad that Marianne and her daughter escaped Love and Joe for now, even if Joe is still looking for her and has now taken his show international. I figured that Joe would end the season still not caught with Love dead or in jail, but I hope that he does end up getting caught next season. I would hate to see the show end, but I really need to see him get what's coming to him. 

[SlovakPrincess]

Eh.  Does this show really have a Season 4 in it?   The only way it could be interesting is if everyone around Joe gets to be smart for once, and he finally gets in trouble.  The plot contrivances to save Joe from his own sloppiness and any possible chance at consequences are so eye-rolling at this point I get a migraine.  Of course Joe figured out the wolfsbane thing / had the adrenaline / took it at just the perfect time to have his movement back right when Love was about to kill him.  And what insane reason will they give us for Joe to build a new plexiglass cage in Paris?

I feel like Season 1 was the only one I could really invest in, because it was semi-grounded in reality, but the plot contrivances to ensure Joe gets away with everything started piling up even then (for example, I didn't really buy that a twice-concussed, hallucinating Joe would've won that round with Peach or that she wouldn't have already called the cops and had them on the way by the time he woke up ... and how convenient to set up Beck's psychiatrist).   I spaced out / skipped episodes for a lot of the last two seasons.  

I do want the show to end with Joe finally paying for Beck's murder. 

[peachmangosteen]

4 hours ago, SlovakPrincess said:

I do want the show to end with Joe finally paying for Beck's murder. 

I want him to pay for all of his murders lol. It needs to end with him getting life in prison. Death is too good for him

[Glade]

On 10/22/2021 at 11:27 PM, AllyB said:

I have to admit that from around episode 3 or 4, I assumed Theo was Joe's brother. Before we even knew Joe had a brother who'd have been a similar-ish age. I thought that his backstory of Matthew and Natalie being his ex-stepfather and new wife was done deliberately to ensure we never saw his biological parents at all. It sort of seemed like a weird family set up. Matthew and Theo didn't seem to have much of a relationship at all. Natalie was utterly ambivalent about him. So while a 'child' and a former step-parent can often have a great relationship that they choose to preserve after the end of the marriage to the biological parent, this just didn't seem to be the case here. Matthew was paying for Theo's schooling and that, and a sense of 'should,' seemed to be all that really connected them rather than a genuine loving relationship. So I really did think some big revelation was going to come of it. That Theo was Joe's brother and that he was doing to Love what Joe had done to Beck and other women.

Wow!  That is mind-blowing, and you're right, they deliberately obscured his bio parents, we only heard mentions of his going back to his mother's occasionally but never saw her or learned anything about her (except that Theo didn't really want to be in her house that much apparently.) Joe finding that Theo was his brother/his mother was within reach but that now he's unable to go back or re-establish contact without extreme danger  because of his own ruse would be a very compelling storyline, much moreso then any of his other loose ends (Ellie, Will, Matthew...) tracking him down.

[tennisgurl]

Wait, hold on...is Marianne a reference to Marian from The Music Man? Pretty librarian who is trying to look after a younger relative, is an outsider in her community, and who starts off cold to the male protagonist who is lying about his identity and motives but warms up to him? Is that a coincidence? 

[Artsda]

Wow that was an ending. With Love's headcount of victims this year, I still wasn't expecting her to die.

I liked that Theo lived thanks to Joe taking him to the hospital instead of just killing him.

Joe in Paris interesting spot to go. 

Edited October 30, 2021 by Artsda

[Chaos Theory]

I think this show is in danger of heading into the Dexter territory.  Dexter was actually a very good show until around season 5 or 6 when it stopped trying to be about Dexter trying to be a real boy and started to just be about Dexter and his need to kill people.    That is just starting to happen to Joe.  Maybe because I found his relationship with Love so interesting and this is how I always wish Dexter and Rita had been but every time Joe moves on to another woman he becomes less interesting.   If the show is going with him chasing down Marienne then it has to do some real dumbing down of a character who isn’t dumb or at least make her really blind to Joe’s faults. “Oh yeah my wife is dead and I am still alive but you don’t have to worry a bit about that”. It’s either half a storyline that dies our real quick for something else like Season 3 and the switcheroo with neighbor lady whose name I forget now that Love killed in the first episode or an entrance into a deeper storyline into Joe’s psyche that we haven’t dealt with yet.    That’s the only way I can see it working.  Playing the Joe chases another woman and seduces her has just gotten old.  Which is why I kinda wish Love had been the one to survive.   It would have breathed fresh life into a fun show.

Edited October 30, 2021 by Chaos Theory

[Mabinogia]

23 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Which is why I kinda wish Love had been the one to survive.   It would have breathed fresh life into a fun show.

I get the sense that a lot of fans didn't like Love so I know it would never have happened, but I think it would have been very interesting (at least for me) if Joe was the one to die and the next season or two had Love turn into the new Joe. 

23 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

If the show is going with him chasing down Marienne then it has to do some real dumbing down of a character who isn’t dumb or at least make her really blind to Joe’s faults.

If the show even goes one episode of Marienne buys Joe's BS I'm out. She has shown herself to be far too smart for that. I think the only way this will work is if the season is Joe trying to win Marienne back with her constantly trying to escape him/run from him, though I won't enjoy watching that either. 

They should have left the option of Love being alive and have Joe pursue Marienne only to have Marienne be the one to finally bring him down. Then we cut to Love, having been taught by the master himself, taking a much more calculated approach to murder. 

At the end of season 2 I was really excited to see where the show was going. At the end of Season 3 I am dreading what will happen next season. 

[jade.black]

The biggest contrivance to me is that nobody ever calls the cops the second they get a chance. Theo should have been on the phone the second he found the Conrads in the cage, Matthew should've called as soon as he found Joe tied up. They're just waiting to get found and killed knowing they're in the house/bakery of confirmed psychopaths and leaving no phone trail.

I know I was supposed to hate Ryan, but once I realized he was played by the same actor as Cappie from Greek, I just couldn't. Add that to the fact that he was the only one outsmarting Joe - calling him out for lurking at AA meetings, ambushing him in the parking garage first, etc, I'd have liked to see more of him.

Another problem I had with this season was Joe's obsessions seeming so much more... shallow? Not the actual people (Natalie and Marienne), but his relationships with them. Joe and Marienne went from 0-100 after like one kiss. In love and ready to run away together? I can't remember season 1 too well, but Beck at least seemed to be taking the relationship at a normal pace, and obvs Love was as crazy as Joe. And although the actual relationship with Natalie made more sense in pacing, Joe got over a woman he was obsessed with in approximately .1 seconds with very little anger at her murder. More like annoyance at Love for breaking his new toy. Which I know could be a commentary on how his obsessions are never real love, but you'd have expected some kind of need to avenge her. Natalie also didn't fit his typical pattern of passive victims. She was a confident woman in charge of her life which makes me wonder why he ever fixated on her in the first place.

Despite plot holes, I loved the ending, but I hope they manage to keep things fresh next season since getting rid of the perfect match to Joe's insanity seems like a step backwards. I also hope this series ends with all the comeuppance for Joe.

[Mabinogia]

joe getting over Natalie and jumping all in with Marienne didn't surprise me too much as I don't really think he seems women as actual people so much as things he needs to save and protect because he couldn't do that with his mum. If he got overly invested in Natalie's death he'd have to admit he failed again. Instead she wasn't "the one" and he moved on to the next. 

I feel like Marienne should maybe be a bit more cautious, not so much about who she dates, but who she falls so in love with she is moving her daughter in with him. She barely knows Joe and though she doesn't know it, he is an actual murderer. Not exactly someone I'd want to raise my child with. lol What I do love is that she didn't seem to completely dismiss Love's accusations about Joe. On TV (and sadly in RL) the new love interest just dismisses any warning as "jealousy" or "bitterness" that he moved on. 

My biggest fear for next season is that she will buy his crap. Everything we've seen of her makes me unaccepting of that. If next season is her trying to out him or get him arrested, I might give it a go. If it is her becoming yet another idiotic victim of his so called charm I will pass. 

I don't think this show can go much longer, at least not with Joe as the lead. It's getting harder and harder to both believe, and accept that he is getting away with all of this. I know, I know, there are serial killers who never get caught, I just don't enjoy watching one constantly getting away with these heinous acts. 

[Cheyanne11]

On 10/17/2021 at 5:56 PM, Chaos Theory said:

Sherry and Cary really do love each other.   This is real love warts and all.  “Those freaky bitches don’t trust each other.”  Chekhov’s key.   

I loved that Sherry figured it out and that they went on to ~learn their lesson by...monetizing it!  That is so on brand for them.  

Re: Joe's 'go bag.'  I just presume a planner like him would have fake documents and a cash stash hidden in a locker somewhere.  It's a bit harder to handwave how much time seemed to occur between him taking Henry to Dante's and then setting the house on fire.  

[DearEvette]

3 hours ago, Cheyanne11 said:

It's a bit harder to handwave how much time seemed to occur between him taking Henry to Dante's and then setting the house on fire.  

I think it all depends on what Joe wrote in the note to Dante & Lansing.  As we all know, Joe can weave a good story.  He could have said something that made it sound like Love was a danger to Henry and he wanted to leave him somewhere that Love would never think of.  He could have made it sound like Love was really unhinged and he was going to try to get her some help so  to go radio silent until he came back to get him please keep him safe, treat him as your own....blah blah blah.  And Dante and Lansing would have had no reason to try and contact him right away. 

He couldn't have blown up the house and then dropped him off because the timing would have been all wrong and that would cast suspicion on his survival.  He took plains to make it look like he blew up too, so by dropping off Henry and then going back to 'reason with' Love and try to get her some help.  It lends credence to the story he would create later with Love's supposed murder suicide note.

 

[Anela]

"Don't get hysterical. I took a seminar!" LMAO! Sherry has had me cracking up these last few episodes. I'm glad they survived, and got their own Ted talk out of it. So on-brand.

I felt bad for Love, but also am glad that she's not around to kill anymore. They are both insane, and I hope that Joe doesn't survive the last season. He at least gave their son a better chance with a real loving couple, who adored Henry. I'm glad that Marienne and her daughter got away, too. 

The exacting way in which he framed Love for everything, is chilling. 

 

[anonymiss]

What a great season!

I was initially very skeptical. I am used to high-concept shows like this disappointing me very soon. A few episodes in, I thought, I don't like anyone and this is same old, same old. 

But I kept watching and am so glad I did. Sherry and Kerry are actually hilarious. And the convo between Love and Marienne was perfect and profound. It made me surprisingly root for Love but not in this absolute way. I like that nothing is really absolute when you watch a show with the most antihero of antihero-type characters.

Edited November 5, 2021 by anonymiss

[Anela]

On 10/26/2021 at 6:44 PM, peachmangosteen said:

I want him to pay for all of his murders lol. It needs to end with him getting life in prison. Death is too good for him

Now I'm picturing him in jail, but getting letters from the women out there, who write to men like him (and marry them) when they're in prison. Although I don't think he'd go for it. unless he meets someone that he thinks he can save, or who can save him. 

[lightbeam]

I'm surprised by how much people are saying they liked season 2. I hated it so much that I almost didn't watch season 3. I found the teenager and her landlord sister incredibly annoying,  and the whole locking Joe up to write a script was so stupid and beyond over the top. I rage finished the season (only wanted to make it to the bitter end). I'm pleasantly surprised by season 3. Yes, there were some silly potholes (I think forensics would have picked up that Gil was bashed in the head, for instance) but it wasn't so out of control ridiculous that it took me out of the story, like season 2 did. I throughly enjoyed it and laughed a lot. The men in the woods and the polyamourous scenes had me cackling.

[Mattipoo]

This was a fun finale for me. So glad Marianne and her daughter survived, along with Theo, Sherry and Kerry. Also, it was nice that Henry ended up with Dante and Lansing. I am looking forward to season 4. Like someone said upthread, I hope Marianne stays far, far away from Joe for her own sake.

[Maysie]

On 11/4/2021 at 5:58 PM, Anela said:

The exacting way in which he framed Love for everything, is chilling. 

So this is a problem I have with the season: Joe didn’t actually frame her until what, the last 24-48 hours he was in town? Everything just fell so neatly into place for Love to become the town villain from the day they moved to Madre Linda. In a sense, that’s the truth because Love is the one who killed Natalie and Gil, and Love is the one who shouted out about killing Natalie so Cary and Sherry could hear the confession, and Love is the one who whacked Theo in the head. So that works out very conveniently for Joe to just wave his hands and say “I can’t help my crazy ass wife!”

In the meantime, Joe doesn’t blatantly do anything wrong until he kills Ryan, but in a sense, he’s gaslighting his wife. And I don’t know why that bothers me but it does. I guess it’s because he gets away with everything because everyone else is incompetent or crazy. I’m still floored at the really shitty detective work re Natalies death. I cannot understand how there was no reference to combing her car for forensic evidence, or any real questions of Love, who was the last person to see Natalie alive. And Gil? Again, no real forensic work or autopsy? Maybe it’s different there, but where I live suicides are investigated (cause of death verified before a death certificate is issued). I would think even a basic autopsy would show Gil was dead before he hung himself.

And the elaborate death scene for Love was ridiculous. He bakes a toe in the pie so everyone assumes Joe’s dead, though the one thing that is totally incinerated in the fire is Joe’s body. But Love’s body, the pie with the toe - they survive well enough for identification (and when have toes been used for identification purposes?) I swear I think in addition to plant identification and recipes for potions, Joe’s google history will turn up something along the lines of “towns with highest rates of unsolved murders.”

All this leads me to wonder exactly how he explains his survival and disappearance if he does choose to resurface and claim Henry. Or how he explains it to Marianne in the very small chance he finds her because she has to know about Joe’s “death.”

 Since we’re getting a season four, I hope it’s centered around his mother/brother connection. I am not up for watching him stalk another woman, no matter who she is. Been there and done that.

Edited November 9, 2021 by Maysie

[Jillybean]

I watched S1 on Lifetime and I found the finale so disturbing that I waited months to watch S2, waffling on whether I even wanted to. In S3, this has morphed into a dark comedy for the most part, possibly with the exception of the very farfetched ending. I think what takes me out of this show is I find Joe unattractive, so I don't know how he's always able to reel in the damsel-in-distress du jour. I realize he stalks them to find out what they need so he can pretend to be it, but physically, he is unappealing IMO. I do think PB is excellent in the role and the voice-overs (I guess he can thank Gossip Girl for honing those skills). I would have preferred Joe and Love to continue straying and reconciling as they realized they were two sides of the same coin. I'm not sure what they'll do with S4, but watching Joe continue the pattern of infatuation/disappointment/murder isn't particularly interesting.

Edited November 9, 2021 by Jillybean

[Mabinogia]

On 11/9/2021 at 6:31 PM, Jillybean said:

I think what takes me out of this show is I find Joe unattractive, so I don't know how he's always able to reel in the damsel-in-distress du jour.

That, to me, was the original interesting thing about the show, watching how he learned everything he needed to manipulate his target into falling for him. 

While I did find the escalation kind of funny this season, because it was so ridiculous, this season we didn't get as much of the "grooming" stuff, which is what I find most chilling (and sadly, the most realistic). 

I do think we have reached the point where Joe needs to actually face some consequences for his actions or the show is going to become very stale and him some kind of superhuman, which would only work if we suddenly find out this show was part of the Marvel Universe all along and the Avengers have to swoop in and defeat him. 

[bettername2come]

"Oh, fuck, I'm gonna need more tarps" might be the funniest line ever said on this show. Penn Badgely really has fantastic delivery. I can't believe how happy I was to hear Theo moan when Joe threw the shovel. Ok, weird, that Joe gave Theo the "This is not your fault" line. I mean, I appreciate the complexity of Joe not wanting to kill him. 

I didn't call Love poisoning the knife. I can't fault her the logic of "none of this would've happened if you hadn't grabbed a weapon." I mean, it's kind of a secret test of character kind of vibe. 

The acting this season has been some of the best. All of the side characters are well-acted and surprisingly nuanced. Characters who are much easier to root for. I loved Marianne trying to reason with Love and try to get her out of a dangerous relationship. It was so sweet. I love how Sherrie realized there was a key inside the cage because they don't trust each other. 

Hateable psychos that they are, Love dying and Joe leaving the baby with Dante were sad, moving scenes. 

I just realized Young Joe is Young Ray Palmer from Legends of Tomorrow, and good lord, that kid has range. 

"No one says no to a man who got turned into a pie."

Oh, my god they are doing blogs about the cage! Yes! Can next season be them, Theo, Scott Speedman and Jenna Ortega hunting Joe down and bringing him to justice? Dr. Nicky can join them. I am happy to see so many characters surviving and thriving in the aftermath. 

[BrownBear2012]

On 10/19/2021 at 9:31 PM, DearEvette said:

Now that I've finished I went and looked up cast interviews etc.  There are a whole series of them, featuring Penn, Victoria, Shalita and Travis.  There was one point where she says 'Cassidy (her character from Search Party) walked so that Sherry could run."  I thought that was perfect because i could see where she took pieces of Cassidy and put them into Sherry, but Sherry is definitely amore refined and had a lot more bite (and Cassidy had more vocal fry).

Victoria Pedretti (Love) and Dylan Arnold (Theo) are dating in real life.

[DigitalCount]

I don't know if anyone else mentioned this, but TIL that the aconite is possibly/probably a reference to our favorite murder-couple's special term of endearment, being wolfsbane and all.

[SlovakPrincess]

On 11/3/2021 at 5:35 PM, Mabinogia said:

I don't think this show can go much longer, at least not with Joe as the lead. It's getting harder and harder to both believe, and accept that he is getting away with all of this. I know, I know, there are serial killers who never get caught, I just don't enjoy watching one constantly getting away with these heinous acts. 

In real life, serial killers often don't get caught because they don't have any other connection to the victims than killing them.   This show is ridiculous because Joe is fully enmeshed into the lives and communities of his victims ... and then he has to come up with some elaborate way to pin everything on someone else (Love made it easier than Beck's psychiatrist because, well, she actually was killing a bunch of people).  And fake his own death or disappearance.   

[seacliffsal]

I enjoyed this season mainly because I enjoy the whole series so much.  I finally got Netflix and binged all 3 seasons in 4 days (watched the first season when it originally aired on Lifetime).  I'm surprised how many people want Joe to be caught/killed/etc. as this is his story/show.  In real life I would never support murderers, but as entertainment I can get behind Joe's story.  I did like the dynamic of Joe and Love when they worked as a team as it brought a different perspective to the show.  I didn't like the character of Marianne (but like the actress) as she really seemed to be looking for someone to "save" her even though she presented differently.  Why else did she so quickly fall for Joe?  And, she saw herself as good even though she knew Joe was married, etc. (hey, the spouse is the cheater, not the person with whom Joe cheated-but she defended herself when speaking with Love).  And, she was ready to run away with Joe even though her daughter barely knew him and was dealing with her father's death.  Haven't really cared for any of Joe's "yous" but there is a reason he zeros in on them in the first place.

Didn't understand why Matthew was hateful towards Joe as he identified Love as Natalie's murderer.  Oh, and like others, loved Sherry and Cary by the end.  Don't feel sorry for Theo as he was a bit obsessive towards Love so it would be an interesting story to follow that he, himself, may have some tendencies.  And it seemed like he was going to help Sherry and Cary until they started talking about Love (similar to neighbor boy and Beck in season 1).

Oh well-am looking forward to season 4 but hope that they are able to bring a different angle to the story.

[Scarlett45]

I’m finally caught up and ready to watch Season 4 in real time with everyone. 
 

Oh Joe- the toe thing was weird, BUT dropping Henry off with Dante was the best thing for him. 

Sherry and Cary LIVE! They were annoying AF but they deserved to live, I knew one of them would realize there was a key in there. 

On 1/2/2022 at 10:12 AM, seacliffsal said:

Don't feel sorry for Theo as he was a bit obsessive towards Love so it would be an interesting story to follow that he, himself, may have some tendencies.  And it seemed like he was going to help Sherry and Cary until they started talking about Love (similar to neighbor boy and Beck in season 1).

That would be interesting. 
 

Shallow Bus-I have to say Love looked amazing in the end- I liked her hair longer with the waves and her earrings. 

[Scarlett45]

everyone was right, Love DID kill James! Not that I thought she wasn’t capable (duh she was), but I thought it would be a bit of a twist if he really did just die of cancer and that kind of led her to snap.