S01.E09: What If…The Watcher Broke His Oath?

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

What if…The Watcher broke his oath?

Season finale! Dropping Wednesday, October 6, 2021.

[tkc]

That was such a satisfying end to the series… well done!

 

(So basically The Watcher is the cosmic equivalent to the fans who wanted Firefly to continue, only with some power and actual connections…)

Edited October 6, 2021 by tkc

[vb68]

Really good finale.

A lot of thoughts, but I really think my favorite part of it was making the relationship between Captain Carter and Widow the cornerstone of the whole thing.

And the big thing I didn't like is Ultron's voice being so off from Spader's that it was distracting. At least for me.

"Not you, Stark. Gamora is chosen."

Edited October 6, 2021 by vb68

[phalange]

That was a great team up. I like the Guardians of the Multiverse. T'Challa telling the Watcher to get a new trick and Thor yelling "Vegas!" while fighting Ultron made me laugh.

R.I.P Zombie Scarlet Witch. Smart way to bring her back, even if just to hold off Ultron for a few seconds.

A shame that Killmonger betrayed the team, but the Watcher knew all along and now Strange Supreme has to watch over Killmonger and Zola for eternity. But as he said, what else does he have to do?

I'm glad the Watcher didn't make Nat return to her desolate world and instead sent her to one that needs her. The scene of her turning the scepter on Loki was a cool shot, and so was the one where Captain Carter and Nat team up to fight Ultron with their shields.

Mid-credits scene. It's probably meant to just be a conclusion for this season, to wrap everything up.

Edited October 6, 2021 by phalange

[arc]

That was a good-ass boss fight. I'm not sure I buy that Uatu decided to recruit some multiversal Guardians but didn't join in the fight himself, esp after he was going toe to toe with Ultron last ep.

What from this finale was necessary from the ep where all the (phase 1) Avengers got murdered? Ideally they'd have let that episode slip to s2 and kept the Gamora one that reportedly slipped, since she actually played a part in the finale.

Also, why recruit Killmonger? So that he and Ultron could get locked in a time crystal forever fighting over Infinity Stones? Why not just have Gamora upgrade her crusher and get rid of them? This better not be some "1 in 14 million" BS.

edit: wow, Georges St-Pierre reprised his role at Batroc. The animated version looked nothing like him, though at least it had some of his moves.

Edited October 6, 2021 by arc

[Spartan Girl]

I KNEW Killmonger would sell them out. But the Watcher anticipated that and used it to his advantage, so well played. If nothing else he finally got what he deserved.

”VIVA LAS VEGAS!!!!” LMAO I love Party Thor.

Okay, now I can’t wait for Tony and Gamora episode next season.

As much as I liked Captain Carter being besties with Natasha, I’m annoyed that they couldn’t make it a trio with Sharon. But since the zombie episodes writers admitted they only brought her in to be gruesomely killed by zombies I shouldn’t be shocked.

So a happy ending for almost almost universes: T’Challa defeats Ego and saves Peter Quill, Party Thor goes back to Jane, Natasha is gets a new universe (though I kind of feel cheated we didn’t see Carol decimate Loki) and we have a fun Gamora/Tony episode next season where Tony doesn’t die. Even Captain Carter gets Steve back because HYDRA froze him in Hydrastomper for all these years? Guess I spoke too soon about Steve and Bucky growing old together. Whatever, it’s still better than Endgame.

On the whole, I only liked the Party Thor and T’Challa Star Lord fun episodes. Hopefully next season has more A/Us without bleak endings—and does better by female characters.

Edited October 6, 2021 by Spartan Girl

[paigow]

Why would HYDRA keep Winter Rogers on a ship? Is he needed to fight Godzilla?

[cambridgeguy]

35 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

As much as I liked Captain Carter being besties with Natasha, I’m annoyed that they couldn’t make it a trip with Sharon.

Well, given that they really wanted a direct copy of the Winter Soldier scene it wouldn't have made sense to make it Sharon.  Plus that's one more VA they'd have to pay for just a couple of lines. 

And I'm assuming Nat was dropped off in the universe where Hank killed the original Avengers.  So her bestie Clint is still dead, but she can still hang out with the two Captains.

 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

22 minutes ago, paigow said:

Why would HYDRA keep Winter Rogers on a ship? Is he needed to fight Godzilla?

My spec is that Hydra had just located him out there in the ocean. Even if Rogers is still frozen or whatever, in the prime timeline they dredged him up and then pretty quickly thawed him out. I wouldn't think they'd have had him for years, but I'm just guessing.

In other news, KIllmonger was still a deceitful ass, as expected. I was thinking T'Challa was going to work some of his magic and try to talk him down, the way he talked Thanos down, but I guess not. "I'm not your cousin." No, you're actually worse than the first version, so screw you.

I felt legit bad for this Natasha, that she helped the Guardians mostly by accident and was still left with a ruined world where all her friends were dead. You would think the Watcher would have learned some small lesson about just sitting back and letting things happen, that even if he didn't return her world to its former state he could have done something for all those other people. Hell, it was Hawkeye's last arrow that transferred the Zola Virus to Ultron. Really well done by Lake Bell, one of the standouts here.

[Jediknight]

Dottie would be so jealous of Nat's relationship with Peggy.  She was supposed to be Peggy's Widow.

I'll never not love hearing Strange's theme.

[The Crazed Spruce]

Not gonna lie, I kinda loved how they used Arnim Zola as a literal deus ex machina.

[tv echo]

Interesting new Avengers team... the "Guardians of the Multiverse" (with its mix of heroes and villains)!

Again, I have to ask - if this Ultron had all 6 Infinity Stones, why not just snap his fingers to do whatever he wants ("I can destroy galaxies with a thought!")? That must be one powerful protection spell cast by Strange Supreme. Why give these Avengers/Guardians the chance to use the Infinity Crusher in the first place (even though it failed)?

I kinda love this animated version of Thor (although I love the smarter, live-action Thor more).

Sad to think that this was the last time we'll hear Chadwick Boseman voice T'Challa.

Interesting way to bring Natasha back to life in the MCU.

I found it difficult to believe that the Avengers/Guardians defeated Infinity Ultron with an arrow "virus." (Reminded me of Independence Day, where the humans defeated the aliens with a computer virus.)

But if I just suspend disbelief regarding the storyline, I actually enjoyed this episode overall.

Mid-credits scene! Kind of a cliffhanger? I assume it's Steve in that Hydra Stomper?

Returning talent: Hayley Atwell, Chadwick Boseman, Michael B. Jordan, Chris Hemsworth, Benedict Cumberbatch, Samuel L. Jackson, Tom Hiddleston, Kurt Russell, Frank Grillo, Georges St-Pierre and Toby Jones.

Sound-alikes: Lake Bell (as Natasha Romanoff/Black Widow), Ross Marquand (as Ultron), Mick Wingert (as Tony Stark/Iron Man), Brian T. Delaney (as Peter Quill), Cynthia McWilliams (as Gamora) and Ozioma Akagha (as Shuri).

Plus Jeffrey Wright as the Watcher.

Edited October 6, 2021 by tv echo

[cdnalor]

Yeah, I just can't buy that anyone in possession of the Infinity Stones would be in any way inconvenienced by mortal beings.  Maybe Thor who's sortof a god and Strange with his other-dimensional magic might have a chance, but the others are just punchy- shooty type characters and would be snapped away instantly.  The Infinity stones are just too overpowered as a plot device to make a credible story.  Still, some nice moments in this episode and it wraps up the series by bringing in elements of the previous episodes.

 

 

[paigow]

What If... Zola & Killmonger team up?

[Chicago Redshirt]

The only reason any of them had a chance is because Strange's magic was super-souped up and he was using it to protect them all. Infinity Ultron started off amused and so presumably was toying with them and then took a while to take the threat seriously and then ascertained that Strange's magic was the key to killing everybody and started focusing on him. 

Of course, one could question why the Watcher only got a handful of Guardians, or this particular handful, when he could just as easily gotten five dozen variants of each, or a variant of a good Ultron/other character who had Infinity Stones or whatever he wanted.  Or he could have gone back in time (or directed the characters he was helping to) in Infinity Ultron's universe to prevent him from acquiring the stones in the first place. Or done a bunch of other things./

But might as well suspend disbelief and enjoy the fun fight. 

[thuganomics85]

Season finale time!

So, after everything goes to shit last week, The Watcher takes the classic route of "Hmm... all of these universes have a lot of powerful individuals, so why don't I just form my own super team!"  And so we get to meet the Guardians of the Multiverse!  Consisting of Captain Carter, Star Lord T'Challa, Party Thor, Dark Doctor Strange, a Gamora who killed Thanos in her universe (and not voiced by Zoe Saldana, sadly), and.... Killmonger.  Well, at least that last one makes sense once you find out what The Watcher's true plan was, heh.  Oh, and they are also joined at the end by Lone Survivor Natasha from last week, which is always good, because every super team-up can benefit from a suddenly Black Widow return!

Realistically (in this universe at least), Ultron really should have been able to end the battle with ease, considering he had all the Infinity Stones in his possession and one would think a sentient A.I. would have the need to gloat, take his time, and toy with everyone.  Then again, he was created by Tony, so maybe all of that was actually a feature!  But the fight scenes were fun and it was good watching him get defeated.  Even if the virus arrow really did remind me of how they took out the aliens in Independence Day.  I have to imagine had Tony or Peter Parker been there, that reference would have been made.

Glad that it at least looks like everyone who did return got some form of a happy ending.  And The Watcher did interfere and put Natasha into another universe where the original one is dead, so that she can have hopefully a much better life than the one she was currently having.

Steve might still be alive in Captain Carter's universe?!

Overall, a fun viewing experience, even if it did fall short in some aspects from time to time (mainly due to time restraints and sometimes not fully taking advantage of what could be explored here.)  But I was entertained and looking forward to any future potential other seasons and episodes.  The voice acting had its ups and downs too, but it was still cool that they got so many of the original actors back.  For the returning players, I thought the standouts were Chadwick Boseman (he really will be missed), Michael B. Jordan, Benedict Cumberbatch, Natalie Portman, and Chris Hemsworth.  For the new ones, I was really impressed by Lake Bell's portrayal of Natasha and I wouldn't mind seeing more of this version going forward.  And, of course, I'm always down to hear more of Jeffrey Wright's iconic voice!

[Racj82]

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

 

But might as well suspend disbelief and enjoy the fun fight. 

Is that even allowed anymore? It doesn't seem like it these days.

In regards to who chose, they all held a specific purpose. He didn't need to grab ultra powerful people from everywhere. These people perfectly capable to pull off the win.

And I feel like I've been saying this for years now. Do people that ask where are the other avengers in every solo movie, why don't they do the simplest option, etc etc want that? These are still stories. Ultron splitting Thanos is fun as a moment in a show like this. Vision doing that in infinity war creates an extremely short movie with no arcs. I want see my team fight to win. To rise up. I don't want the simplest option. I want these heroes, at times, to have their own journies. 

For every question of why didn't they just do this, there is a story out there for that. But, that story isn't satisfying or interesting.

My only quibble with the finale is having to skip watching this team mesh together. They are pretty much a well older machine almost immediately. Part of the fun is the growth of the team. 

I still don't have an issue with Tony being sidelined or killed. Tony is THE center of our cinematic universe. I like letting other characters get more shine. He is also too damn smart to not figure out a solution for everything. 

As always, I'm not checking how the women are doing in this. I just want all the characters to have purpose and are written well. Everyone all board were strong, smart and courageous. That's awesome. 

Also Natasha being the best friend ever in every universe always makes me smile. 

[Sakura12]

So is Steve the Winter Solider in Captain Carter's universe?

[paigow]

33 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

Also Natasha being the best friend ever in every universe always makes me smile. 

In the prime universe, she had no idea who Peggy Carter was...

[Racj82]

7 hours ago, paigow said:

In the prime universe, she had no idea who Peggy Carter was...

She's the best friend to SOMEONE  in every universe. 

To elaborate, she has been shown to be the rock for Clint, Peggy, Nick and Steve in different universes or times. It doesn't mean she isn't her own person. She also is one of the most loyal and trustworthy friends you can have.

I was saying that I love that about her. She likes to carry herself as if she's this jaded loner but in reality she is very open, comforting and always creating new families.

Edited October 7, 2021 by Racj82

[paigow]

When I Was Just A Baby, My Mama Told Me. Son,
Always Be A Good Boy; Don't Ever Play With Guns.
But I Shot A Man In Reno Just To Watch Him Die.

Thought that the Watcher would pick Stark for the same reason...

[swanpride]

I have to give it to the writers: The idea to connect all those different realities they offered up this way was pretty much genius. Only the Gamora and Tony moment really, really confused me, I was wondering if I had somehow missed an episode. 

Sadly, there are still some things which bothered me, mainly that the problems I had with the original episodes were carried into this one. No, this is NOT Peggy. Peggy wouldn't put away her shield because of some taunts, that is something Steve would do, but Peggy is a "take the next stapler" kind of gal. She has no problem whatsoever to fight dirty, and she doesn't feel the need to proof herself this way. I am still bothered how Quill has been treated (though props for at least putting him beside T'Challa in the end). 

On the other hand, some problems were solved...for starters the overly bleak endings got somewhat fixed, and the stories don't feel quite as unfinished anymore. 

At the same time though...this episode suffered under a lot of the same problems as the last one. Characters acting atypical for the sake of the plot (Fury would never accept a second Natasha that easily in any universe, the fact that Natasha will soon learn that Clint died in that universe too doesn't exactly make the decision to put her there THAT happy and how exactly did Dr. Strange turn from being angry with the watcher to consider him a friend????), missed opportunities (you have T'Challa and Killmonger on one team and didn't allow for some Cousin-Interaction? I mean, not that it meant that considering that this T'Challa doesn't even know this Killmonger, but still....), the feeling that the writers just discarded some characters (honestly, you do a "guardians of the Multi-Verse" thing and Carol isn't even considered?????) and that the story could have needed a little bit more time. 

The big plus was that finally they allowed the female characters some room and made the story mainly about them. Took them long enough.  

[johntfs]

31 minutes ago, swanpride said:

I have to give it to the writers: The idea to connect all those different realities they offered up this way was pretty much genius. Only the Gamora and Tony moment really, really confused me, I was wondering if I had somehow missed an episode. 

 

You in fact did miss an episode - as did the rest of us.  There was supposed to be a "What If Tony ended up on Sakkar?" episode that got pushed to next season.

[arc]

2 hours ago, swanpride said:

No, this is NOT Peggy. Peggy wouldn't put away her shield because of some taunts, that is something Steve would do, but Peggy is a "take the next stapler" kind of gal. She has no problem whatsoever to fight dirty, and she doesn't feel the need to proof herself this way.

Plus, as seen in her own episode, the super-soldier serum made her superhuman. Batroc had no chance whether or not she put the shield away. (TBF this was also a problem in Winter Soldier, though they hadn’t fully soft-retconned Cap from “peak human” to “superhuman” yet, parachuteless jump aside. And it would also have been a problem in Black Panther for T’Challa to have those leadership fights while enhanced, except that movie specifically removed the enhancement to put him on a level footing with his challengers.)

All that said, I quite like MCU Batroc. (And regular comics Batroc too.)

Then again, my absolute favourite thing about that moment in Winter Soldier is how Batroc challenged Steve in French and Steve responded in French, and then in this universe Peggy and Batroc just spoke in English.

Edited October 6, 2021 by arc

[tennisgurl]

That was a great ending to the show, taking what started as basically an anthology and then giving it a narrative was a really cool idea with a great payoff that even allowed us to get some happy endings for the more depressing stories. You can probably ask why Uatu didn't bring a whole army in to fight Ultron or why he didn't do it himself with the rest of the group for backup, but I cant nitpick too much in an episode that I enjoyed so much. The use of the different universes and who was picked was clever, especially using the zombies and Zombie Wanda. The Guardians of the Multiverse were awesome and I liked seeing them play off of each other. Not too surprising that Killmonger ended up trying to take the stones for himself, but apparently Uatu wasn't surprised either as that was all a part of the plan. Then at the end, after episode after episode of death and destruction, we get some nice moment of closure with many of the stories. Captain Carter might find Steve after all, Star Lord T'Challa stops Ego and saves Peter, who its implied gets to go on space adventures after all, Frat Bro Thor reunites with Jane, Killmonger's crimes are exposed and he pays for what he did, the Ultron Natasha gets to go to the murder mystery world where the Captains are fighting off Loki, Super Strange is still stuck in his dead universe but did find some purpose and redemption, and for once Tony shows up in an episode and doesn't die. 

Natasha and Peggy's friendship was a real highlight, they are apparently so close in the Captain Carter world that Natasha even told her about her Russian family, which she never told anyone about in the main timeline. I also thought that Natasha angrily calling out Uatu about how he just watches and never interferes an interesting bit of meta commentary, especially after so many depressing episodes where terrible things happen to our heroes that we all watched, including in a lot of intense or badass moments that fans probably did cheer about. How people just sit there and watch terrible things happen to fictional characters and pass the popcorn as they are hurt and slaughtered over and over because they aren't real, even enjoying it. Then Uatu, the audience surrogate, says how their stories do matter even if he can only watch them, real or not, and that even if he can only watch while bad things happen, he still cares about what happens to them and while he cant really interact with the people he watches, the feelings he gets watching them are very real, like when audiences connect with characters and a story. 

This was another more serious episode, but there were still a lot of funny bits, like Strange struggling to give a toast until T'Challa stepped in, party Thor being himself (VIVA LAS VEGAS!) and I love the glimpse we got of the Gamara/Tony adventure, which I really hope we get to see in the second season. Damn you production issues! 

This was a really enjoyable show, even if I think that they could have explored some of the concepts a bit better and could have really used a few less downer episodes, but I am really glad that Marvel decided to make this. It had a lot of interesting, exciting, sad, scary, and fun ideas and using animation allowed them to get really creative in its visual storytelling in a way that's harder to do with live action. Plus they got to throw in a ton of fun Marvel easter eggs and play with a lot of comic stories, like Marvel Zombies, which I appreciated as a comic nerd.  I think my favorite episodes were the Doctor Strange episode and the Thor's Big Party episode, although there was a lot to like in all of them. I am really interested in what a second season will bring.

[Spartan Girl]

3 hours ago, swanpride said:

The big plus was that finally they allowed the female characters some room and made the story mainly about them. Took them long enough.

I still don’t forgive them for the zombie episode…unless next season has them finally give Sharon a good story that doesn’t involve her being evil, zombified, or blown up.

And I can’t help feeling a little cheated that Shuri and Pepper didn’t get to kick Killmonger’s ass for elegant he did to T’Challa, Tony, and Rhodes.

[paigow]

3 hours ago, arc said:

All that said, I quite like MCU Batroc...

Unfortunately, The Power Broker outvoted you...

[swanpride]

5 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I still don’t forgive them for the zombie episode…unless next season has them finally give Sharon a good story that doesn’t involve her being evil, zombified, or blown up

Or the fridging episode or the fact that they turned Peggy into female Steve instead of actually understanding her character or how they constantly side-lined Carol....

[Starfish35]

A good ending.  Not perfect, as has been pointed out, but I enjoyed it.  I was impressed at how they were able to gather up threads from all the prior episodes, and pull them all together. (Although unfortunately, them having to push the Gamora/Tony episode to next season did end up creating a bigger hole in the overall narrative than I expected.)   

There are some obvious plot holes, such as, why not Carol?  But overall, I thought it worked well.  

I especially enjoyed the Peggy/Natasha friendship aspect.  Loved that - definitely a major highlight.   Although….I’m sorry to disagree on Lake Bell.  I think she does a great job, but she doesn’t sound anything like ScarJo to me, and it’s a constant distraction.  

The other major highlight (of the whole season really) has been getting to hear Chadwick Boseman as T’Challa one last time.  😢 

So, just to summarize how the threads from each prior episode were continued or wrapped up in this one:

• Episode 1:  Captain Carter’s universe, probably still the closest to the MCU. Peggy is BFFs with Natasha, and just (probably) discovered Steve in the Hydra Stomper armor. To be continued next season?
• Episode 2:  T’Challa rescued Peter and defeated Ego, so that universe is still one of the best off, apparently. 
• Episodes 3 & 8: Natasha, as the lone survivor of episode 8’s universe, gets sent to the universe from episode 3, where she gets to kick Loki’s ass.  I like it.  The downside is that Clint is still dead in this universe, but…to be honest, her Clint is still dead either way, so maybe this is better.  Maybe in this universe, she and Carol can be friends?
• Episode 4:  The Doctor Strange from this episode destroyed his own universe, but helped to save the multi-verse, and will apparently be earning some measure of redemption by guarding Zola and Killmonger in the pocket dimension.  To be continued? 
• Episode 5: Zombie-world.  I’m guessing this means the Peter and T’Challa of that episode did not succeed (which we already pretty much guessed), so this is one of three universes not to get a happy-ish ending.  But I suppose zombie!Wanda did at least serve as a temporary distraction for Ultron. (Probably my least-favorite episode of the season, but then, I hate zombies.)
• Episode 6:  When I heard Killmonger was going to be in this episode, I thought it meant that Pepper and Shuri failed in their mission.  But no, they did not.  Good for them.  Killmonger may not be brought to Wakandan justice, but he’s trapped in an eternal battle with Zola, so… karma?
• Episode 7:  Party Thor gets to go home to a date with his Jane. Party on? 😄
• Missing episode:  Gamora and Tony.  Pushed to season two.  Since this episode was apparently supposed to help set up this season’s finale, I will be curious to see whether it gets reworked at all to fit into the season two narrative.

I think it was overall a fairly successful season, although it did get pretty bleak in the middle, and I hope they lighten up on that a bit next season.  For me, I think it helps a bit in retrospect to have them all tied together at the end, so that they’re not entirely stand-alone stories.   

Edited October 7, 2021 by Starfish35

[Cobalt Stargazer]

19 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I still don’t forgive them for the zombie episode…unless next season has them finally give Sharon a good story that doesn’t involve her being evil, zombified, or blown up.

And I can’t help feeling a little cheated that Shuri and Pepper didn’t get to kick Killmonger’s ass for elegant he did to T’Challa, Tony, and Rhodes.

If it helps, lots of people on social media are singing Natasha's praises and saying she's the real hero of the finale, that without her they wouldn't have defeated Ultron at all. I know you're kind of ambivalent towards Nat, but they're not wrong. The Watcher can be said to have chosen her universe for the final stand because she was there as the sole survivor.

[paigow]

Was this version of Batroc working for Fury? If this Lemurian Star recovered Rogers in the Indian Ocean, there should be a corpse in the suit.

[paigow]

On 10/7/2021 at 3:41 PM, Cobalt Stargazer said:

The Watcher can be said to have chosen her universe for the final stand because she was there as the sole survivor.

He picked the only universe with a weaponized Zola virus. Whether Clint or Natasha was the last survivor is immaterial.

[The Crazed Spruce]

On 10/7/2021 at 5:32 PM, paigow said:

Was this version of Batroc working for Fury? If this Lemurian Star recovered Rogers in the Indian Ocean, there should be a corpse in the suit.

Pure speculation, but

Spoiler

the armor was powered by the tesseract. That might've preserved the person in it. But I'm betting we'll have to wait 'til next season to find that out one way or the other.

(Spoilered just in case it pans out. And also 'cause it doesn't really belong in this thread.)

[mauledbypandas]

I'm just happy that there will be a S2!  Yay!  For some reason I didn't think that would happen.

I found the series a bit darker (zombies etc) than expected but still really liked it.

..And it still hurts to hear Chadwick's voice, knowing he is no longer with us... I'll still watch Black Panther 2 tho, whatever Marvel ends up doing.

 

Edited October 9, 2021 by mauledbypandas

[Chyromaniac]

I liked it.  I’m not entirely sold on the series as a whole, but I feel like this episode went a long way to redeem some of the issues I’ve had along the way.  Specifically, I feel like they managed to mitigate some of the buzzkill vibe that built up along the way.  I also agree with the poster above about the Widow/Watcher scene at the end.  I haven’t been a huge fan of the writing on the show- it’s often felt more like quippy rehashes of MCU stories than scripts with actual plot lines of their own.  However, that moment did a great job of not only articulating what these stories and characters mean for us as the audience- but also why a show like “What If?” works in the first place.

It sounds like the pandemic is to blame for the missing Gamora episode- assuming Disney intends to put it out eventually (a strong bet, considering they paid for it) I think I’d prefer it to be a special release, or a S2 preview, rather than part of next season.  Basically, I assume S2 will have its own story to tell, and it would be weird to have one episode tie back to this arc.  If they do finish it off, I do think it would be neat to start off with the clip from this show, and then have the Watcher say something like, “I bet you were confused when I came to recruit this hero for the fight against Ultron.  Well here’s the story you didn’t hear…”

[Sandman]

On 10/6/2021 at 12:59 PM, paigow said:

In the prime universe, she had no idea who Peggy Carter was...

Well, she did attend Peggy's funeral, no? Am I forgetting a line indicating that she had no idea who the service was for?

I'm increasingly mpressed with the commenter who noted a few episodes ago how much more clearly visible the Watcher was becoming (at least to us, at that point). Clearly that person was onto something. Rather than being just the framing device-slash-omniscient narrator, it turns out that Uatu was the through-line character of the whole story. I thought that was a nice touch.

On 10/7/2021 at 9:30 AM, Starfish35 said:

But I suppose zombie!Wanda did at least serve as a temporary distraction for Ultron. (Probably my least-favorite episode of the season, but then, I hate zombies.)

I feel your pain.

Edited October 17, 2021 by Sandman

[paigow]

2 hours ago, Sandman said:

Well, she did attend Peggy's funeral, no? Am I forgetting a line indicating that she had no idea who the service was for?

In CA&TWS, Romanoff looked at photos of Col. Phillips. Howard Stark and Carter - only recognizing Stark

[Sandman]

12 hours ago, paigow said:

In CA&TWS, Romanoff looked at photos of Col. Phillips. Howard Stark and Carter - only recognizing Stark

Hm. Good point. (I, on the other hand, barely remembered Col. Tommy Lee Jones Guy's name. So, good call by you.)

Edited October 17, 2021 by Sandman

[Abra]

I've never bought that Natasha had no idea who Peggy Carter was and what she meant, to SHIELD or to Steve.

[Llywela]

Natasha was a master spy. She never had all her cards on the table. That 'who's the girl?' quip was as likely to be a subtle dig at Steve to scope out his reaction as genuine curiosity. She'd have known who Peggy was, even if she'd never seen a picture of her that young.

[ahisma]

On 10/6/2021 at 3:27 AM, Spartan Girl said:

On the whole, I only liked the Party Thor and T’Challa Star Lord fun episodes.

Same. I got into What If? because I love a good AU predicated on changing just one thing. It was very clever that all the episodes came together for the finale two, and well done, but not totally my jam. Marvel keeps escalating from saving the city to the country to the world to the universe to the multiverse… I just enjoy the stories more when they’re on a more human scale. “Bigger and better” isn’t really better for me.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 10/6/2021 at 6:15 AM, arc said:

What from this finale was necessary from the ep where all the (phase 1) Avengers got murdered?

That was the world that survivor Nat got sent to at the end, so we had to see it in an earlier episode in order to appreciate it now.

 

Edited May 15, 2022 by ItCouldBeWorse