S01.E02: Who Is Tim Kono?

[AnimeMania]

The group begins researching the victim. Meanwhile, Mabel’s secretive past starts to be unraveled.

Available August 31, 2021

Edited August 31, 2021 by AnimeMania

[AnimeMania]

OK so the Whale tattoo is explained, Volume 47 in the original The Hardy Boys Mystery Stories is entitled "Mystery of the Whale Tattoo". Both girls had one, not sure if both guys got one. You have to be at least 18 to get a tattoo in New York, unless Mabel did it since she is an artist.

Zoe stealing stuff from all the tenants in the building is probably what got her killed and Oscar was the one who took the fall for her death. Tim Kono was hiding all the loot that Zoe stole, was that ring part of the stolen stuff? Why was it in such a large box? Why didn't the 3 mention to us who sent the package, seems like a huge clue?

What was that party on the roof? I am pretty sure the kids were not 21 years old so that they couldn't legally drink. Shouldn't the person throwing the party be considered responsible for some underage drunk kid falling to their death at their party?

How did Tim Kono die, his gunshot didn't look fatal. Why did they pull the fire alarm, probably as a way to get someone from the outside into the building, if so wouldn't somebody inside the building have to have pulled the fire alarm, they should know exactly where (what floor) triggered the fire alarm. Was Tim Kono dead before or after the fire alarm? Did nobody hear the gunshot? How did anybody find the body if nobody was allowed back into the building? Did they search every room looking for the fire and found the dead body?

Oliver (Martin Short) have you ever seen a sex toy? That looked more like a cat toy, especially the kind that they use in Japan. I think Evelyn the cat would visit Tim Kono's room every night where he would sit on the floor and play with her. Why is Evelyn the cat dead, could use some more investigation? Did her owner not see any blood on her fur, where did he find the body?

Zoe's family lived on the entire 11th floor, are they still in the building? They had to have known how close all the Hardy Boys were and that Zoe's death was suspicious.

Why doesn't anybody know Tim Kono?, he lived in the building for years, didn't he run up and down the hallways of every floor? Why did Tim Kono's parents leave him in the building with no money?

Did Tim Kono try to sell the ring or sold the ring and somebody told him it was stolen and the owner wanted it back, so they sent the ring back to him? 

[Snapdragon]

I'm really over shows haivng cursing and gore just because they can.  If you took out all the random cursing (which just seems out of place and adds nothing to the dialogue) and the graphicness of Tim's head wound, I could watch this with my eight year old.  It just seem like a lame attempt to make the show "edgy" and takes away from the overall Agatha Christie feel that the rest of the series has.

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, Snapdragon said:

I'm really over shows haivng cursing and gore just because they can.  If you took out all the random cursing (which just seems out of place and adds nothing to the dialogue) and the graphicness of Tim's head wound, I could watch this with my eight year old.  It just seem like a lame attempt to make the show "edgy" and takes away from the overall Agatha Christie feel that the rest of the series has.

It got nothing but praise when it was done with "The Flight Attendant", that is probably why they didn't think it was too much.

[Kiddvideo]

I'm not buying a basic tenet: No one knows Tim Kono. He and Mabel appear to be in their late 20's, which means there would be gobs of residents and especially staff who would've known him as a child, known his parents, and remembered him being friends with Zoe (the rich girl whose family owned the entire 11th floor), Oscar (the Super's son), and that other girl from LI -- you know, Salma's niece in 12A. They would remember Zoe's murder, and they would know Oscar had been released and was back in the building. That building would be rife with rumor rather than these 3 having to sneak around.

I really want to like this show!

ETA: I know the title of the episode is metaphorical, but no way is Tim staying in his family's apt. and Mabel staying in her aunt's apt. and Oscar being released, and no one has connected the dots.

Edited August 31, 2021 by Kiddvideo

[marketdoctor]

I'm enjoying it; I think it would be better with either half the profanity or have it be more focused on one character (some people use a lot, some don't.)  

That said, I wonder if the reference to "Steve Carrell in The Office" was a meta-joke, because Selena Gomez was also in The Big Short with him.

 

[Kiddvideo]

3 minutes ago, marketdoctor said:

I'm enjoying it; I think it would be better with either half the profanity or have it be more focused on one character (some people use a lot, some don't.)  

That said, I wonder if the reference to "Steve Carrell in The Office" was a meta-joke, because Selena Gomez was also in The Big Short with him.

 

My own experience in Manhattan after 25+ years, I don’t hear the profanity except from the older residents like Bunny and the middle finger flipper, and that’s intentional, I think, to juxtapose their maturity with reminders that they were young and vital once. Maybe there’s other cursing, but I literally don’t remember hearing it.

[marketdoctor]

Quote

My own experience in Manhattan after 25+ years, I don’t hear the profanity except from the older residents like Bunny and the middle finger flipper, and that’s intentional.

OK, I (mistakenly) thought it was for shock value; points for realism instead.

 

[cardigirl]

There's cursing and gore in this?🤗

 

I thought it was very mild and did not distract from the awesomeness of the show. 

[Kiddvideo]

2 hours ago, marketdoctor said:

OK, I (mistakenly) thought it was for shock value; points for realism instead.

 

If it bothers you, it bothers you. Not a mistake on your part! It literally just goes past my ear.

[Ilovepie]

17 hours ago, cardigirl said:

There's cursing and gore in this?🤗

 

I thought it was very mild and did not distract from the awesomeness of the show. 

Yeah, it didn't bother me because Mabel is the one doing all of the cursing, and it kind of makes sense because of her age and background. The older lady at the memorial I think just to show she's a tough New Yorker? That one felt a little more forced and out of character to me.

The gore is pretty mild.

The bigger head scratcher to me was the Martin Short's son in New Jersey, which although I acknowledge we haven't seen the mother, they look in no way related at all.

I am loving this though. I wish there was more stuff out there like it.

[Johnny Dollar]

On 8/31/2021 at 5:43 PM, marketdoctor said:

 

Quote

That said, I wonder if the reference to "Steve Carrell in The Office" was a meta-joke, because Selena Gomez was also in The Big Short with him.

 

I just finished The Morning Show. Martin Short played a “Woody Allen” like director friend to Steve Carell’s “Matt Lauer” type morning show host. 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Johnny Dollar

[allonsyalice]

19 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

The bigger head scratcher to me was the Martin Short's son in New Jersey, which although I acknowledge we haven't seen the mother, they look in no way related at all.

Honestly, I just assumed his son was adopted.

[tennisgurl]

I might just be jaded after years of HBO, but I didnt even particularly notice excess swearing or gore, it didn’t feel like too much me, but everyone has their own levels of comfort of course. I am still loving the show, it has a very cozy mystery feel to it that I enjoy. I actually thought the gore was relevant to the plot of the episode, as Mabel kept reminding the others that this isnt just a fun mystery to solve and that a person actually died. This isnt a TV show or a podcast, its a real gruesome crime that happened to a real person, and even if he wasnt the most likable person what happened was still very real and terrible, whether he was murdered or killed himself. The bloody head reminds the characters and us that this isnt just a thought experiment but something serious and violent. 

This episode we learn more about Mabel and her relationship with the now deceased Tim Kono, plus we now have another murder to possibly solve. I am guessing that the jewelry that Mabel found in Tim Kono's books was attached to the Mabel's friend who stole jewelry from residents and that we will have to solve that murder to solve this one. Or it could be a twist that Tim Kono really did kill himself over guilt after whatever happened in the past, which is the "real" murder that needs solving.  

Edited September 4, 2021 by tennisgurl

[MisterGlass]

I noticed the profanity and edginess because it makes me hesitant to recommend this to my parents, who would otherwise enjoy this.

I can buy that there had been turnover in the resident population in the last ten years, and not all of them would remember the death of Zoe.  Charles and Oliver should remember, though there would be no reason for them to know specifically about her relationship to Mabel.  And Mabel was not actually a resident, only a visitor.  It's possible that people knew Tim Kono's parents, but didn't interact with him until he took over the apartment.

I also thought that was a cat toy.

I really enjoyed the cheesy cop show footage.  The look of everything had that early 90s procedural feel.

[thuganomics85]

Heh, Charles thinks tipping is "elitist", so he hands out autographs instead.  No wonder he's apparently the least popular person in the building, with the possible exception of the dearly departed Tim Kono.

Already get more backstory about Mabel and her connection with Tim.  So, the "Hardy Boys" consisted of those two and two others named Oscar and Zoe, who would occasionally "dabble" in the whole stealing items from other tenants thing, thanks to one of them having to key to getting into rooms since his dad was the superintendent.  But then something happens that leads to Zoe's death, Tim sees what happens, but apparently keeps silent and lets Oscar take the fall for it?  Also, it seems like he still kept all of the items this entire time.  Hmm.. not sure what to make of it.  I can see why Mabel is keeping this close to the chest right now, but I hope she clues in Charles and Oliver soon, and they don't find out on their own.

Looks like another murder possibly took place: poor Evelyn the cat!  Possible connection there?

Steve Martin was certainly having fun during the "show within a show" bit.  Definitely felt in line with a lot of those type of procedural cop shows back in the day!

[Irlandesa]

I'm impressed by the character work in this.  For instance, we learn that Charles is cheap while Oliver is broke but generous (tipping and bringing presents to his grandkids in the last episode).

 

[TimothyQ]

23 hours ago, MisterGlass said:

I noticed the profanity and edginess because it makes me hesitant to recommend this to my parents, who would otherwise enjoy this.

This is my problem with entertainment these days in general. I’m certainly no prude and often an emphatic “fuck” is needed and well deserved. But the constant profanity is not necessary, limits the audience, and is just sloppy and unimaginative writing, in my opinion.

That said, I am enjoying my this show in general and look forward to the mystery getting fleshed out.

[shapeshifter]

On 9/4/2021 at 2:47 PM, tennisgurl said:

I might just be jaded after years of HBO, but I didnt even particularly notice excess swearing or gore, it didn’t feel like too much me, but everyone has their own levels of comfort of course. I am still loving the show, it has a very cozy mystery feel to it that I enjoy. I actually thought the gore was relevant to the plot of the episode, as Mabel kept reminding the others that this isnt just a fun mystery to solve and that a person actually died. This isnt a TV show or a podcast, its a real gruesome crime that happened to a real person, and even if he wasnt the most likable person what happened was still very real and terrible, whether he was murdered or killed himself. The bloody head reminds the characters and us that this isnt just a thought experiment but something serious and violent

I agree, but I am sensitive to gore, so I wish we didn’t have to keep seeing it. Didn’t The Flight Attendant just show blood without disfigurement? It’s a directorial and artistic choice, and makes sense here as you explained, @tennisgurl; “This isnt a TV show or a podcast, its a real gruesome crime that happened to a real person,” but it’s a little much for me, because I’m a wimp.

[grandmabegum]

On 8/31/2021 at 1:49 AM, AnimeMania said:

Zoe's family lived on the entire 11th floor, are they still in the building? They had to have known how close all the Hardy Boys were and that Zoe's death was suspicious.

Why doesn't anybody know Tim Kono?, he lived in the building for years, didn't he run up and down the hallways of every floor? Why did Tim Kono's parents leave him in the building with no money?

 

Definitely agree that some people should have known Tim Kono. Also, the money thing leads to all sorts of questions.

As for Zoe's family, I can easily believe that after such a tragic event they had trouble staying in the building (not just for the memory of their daughter, but I imagine gossip was flying] and decided to move.

Edited September 6, 2021 by grandmabegum
His name's not Time Kono

[grandmabegum]

On 8/31/2021 at 1:49 AM, AnimeMania said:

OK so the Whale tattoo is explained, Volume 47 in the original The Hardy Boys Mystery Stories is entitled "Mystery of the Whale Tattoo". Both girls had one, not sure if both guys got one. You have to be at least 18 to get a tattoo in New York, unless Mabel did it since she is an artist.

 

And not sure how exactly it fits, but apparently that book is about a group of pick pockets, so it seems somewhat relevant to the fact that they are stealing. Maybe?

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, grandmabegum said:

As for Zoe's family, I can easily believe that after such a tragic event they had trouble staying in the building (not just for the memory of their daughter, but I imagine gossip was flying] and decided to move.

Also, Zoe died 10 years ago, right? Or close to it? Which would be at the height of (depths of) the effects of the housing bubble bursting.
Even though this place would not have had many tenants who would have bought with impossible payment schedules, it could have had a domino effect in other ways, and might explain why most current owners weren't around then.

Further, wouldn't gossip like that be kept hush-hush to be avoid giving the place a bad name and lowering the property values?

Edited September 6, 2021 by shapeshifter

[grandmabegum]

21 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Further, wouldn't gossip like that be kept hush-hush to be avoid giving the place a bad name and lowering the property values?

Oh, I just meant gossip within the building. It wouldn't even have to be gossip. Looks of pity and whispers can also have an effect on people.

[grandmabegum]

Has anyone pointed out that Tim Kono is an anagram for "I'm not OK"? It's not a clue or anything cause that seems to be his given name, but hey, fun fact!

[shapeshifter]

49 minutes ago, grandmabegum said:

Has anyone pointed out that Tim Kono is an anagram for "I'm not OK"? It's not a clue or anything cause that seems to be his given name, but hey, fun fact!

I love that you noticed this and shared it!
I kept thinking about how "Kono" was the name of Grace Park's character on Hawaii Five-0 (2010 TV series) and couldn't find any meaning to it.
Maybe it was really the "I'M NOT OK" anagram of TIM KONO nagging at me. 

There was another name nagging me with a cultural reference but even looking at the cast list I can't recall which one.
Although "Ursula" reminds me of the same-named sea witch from The Little Mermaid.

Edited September 6, 2021 by shapeshifter

[grandmabegum]

If a seashell necklace pops up as part of the jewelry haul I think this case is going to go in a whole new direction.

[meowmommy]

I'm absolutely terrible at sleuthing, but I don't get how Tim Kono was behind in his rent and behind in his building fees.  If you own a co-op, do you pay rent?  Also, I don't know the timeline on this show, but seems like that blood should have started to coagulate enough by then so Steve Martin wouldn't be squishing blood in his shoes.

Selena Gomez talking to the corpse about his murder was way too Flight Attendant for me.

Second episode seemed way shorter than the first.  I honestly thought the first episode was an hour long and it was only 34 minutes.

I don't care who killed Tim Kono.  I wanna know who hurt that sweet cat.

[MisterGlass]

Mabel's post mortem conversation reminded me of American Werewolf in London.

[grandmabegum]

I should not be rewatching these again, but I'm actually sitting down and not eating a meal so I'm noticing other things. Bunny knows sign language? She was signing with Theo before the memorial.

[Insert Username]

On 9/2/2021 at 10:50 AM, allonsyalice said:

Honestly, I just assumed his son was adopted.

You meet Martin Short's wife in a flashback and she is African-American

 

I'm loving this show so far and not trying to think to deeply about it plot holes (like no one remembering Tim as a kid). However, one of my brothers does live in Manhattan in one of these type of buildings - he was living there 10 years before finding out through an article in a magazine that a pretty big celebrity lives in his building. People do tend to be fairly insular in those places

[grandmabegum]

I think because it seems like there's only 2 elevators, it took me awhile to realize how large this building was. I completely agree that that's probably a reason some people aren't aware of certain people/events.

[djsunyc]

4 minutes ago, grandmabegum said:

I think because it seems like there's only 2 elevators, it took me awhile to realize how large this building was. I completely agree that that's probably a reason some people aren't aware of certain people/events.

 

this is the same building they used in the movie new jack city that nino brown took over and make into a crack production and distribution center.

Edited September 7, 2021 by djsunyc

[grandmabegum]

I have not seen that movie, but hey if you are PRODUCING and DISTRIBUTING crack you probably need some room!

[Cotypubby]

8 hours ago, grandmabegum said:

I think because it seems like there's only 2 elevators, it took me awhile to realize how large this building was. I completely agree that that's probably a reason some people aren't aware of certain people/events.

The actual apartment building it’s set in is huge, it takes up a full city block b/t 86th & 87th St from Broadway to Amsterdam.

[Natalie25]

Question about timeline - I'm confused on how Tim Kono and Evenlyn the cat both passed away on the same night. Maybe I'm missing something. But it seems to me that whatever night it is that Tim died, everything else from the pilot episode (breaking into Bunny's apartment and finding the ring, Oliver visiting his son) happened the day after. And it seemed that the first episode ended that following night, focusing on the picture of the Hardy Boys (it seems to be night/dark). The second episode seems to be the day following, with the memorial and going through Tim's apartment. And the owner says that she died "last night." Doesn't that mean that Evelyn died the night after Tim?

[cardigirl]

7 hours ago, Natalie25 said:

Question about timeline - I'm confused on how Tim Kono and Evenlyn the cat both passed away on the same night. Maybe I'm missing something. But it seems to me that whatever night it is that Tim died, everything else from the pilot episode (breaking into Bunny's apartment and finding the ring, Oliver visiting his son) happened the day after. And it seemed that the first episode ended that following night, focusing on the picture of the Hardy Boys (it seems to be night/dark). The second episode seems to be the day following, with the memorial and going through Tim's apartment. And the owner says that she died "last night." Doesn't that mean that Evelyn died the night after Tim?

I agree there's something up with the timeline. If the cat's footprints are in Tim's blood, then Tim was dead before the cat was in the apartment the last time, and unless Tim set up the poison for the cat before he was murdered, then Tim didn't kill the cat. 

[tvfanatic13]

On 9/7/2021 at 10:15 PM, Cotypubby said:

The actual apartment building it’s set in is huge, it takes up a full city block b/t 86th & 87th St from Broadway to Amsterdam.

My ex-wife’s grandmother lived there. It is an amazing building. 

[shapeshifter]

44 minutes ago, tvfanatic13 said:

My ex-wife’s grandmother lived there. It is an amazing building. 

Are you very familiar with with The Belnord (aka The Arconia)?
If so, that must add an entire layer to your viewing experience of the show!

[MisterGlass]

16 hours ago, cardigirl said:

I agree there's something up with the timeline. If the cat's footprints are in Tim's blood, then Tim was dead before the cat was in the apartment the last time, and unless Tim set up the poison for the cat before he was murdered, then Tim didn't kill the cat. 

My speculative explanation is below the tag.

Spoiler

I think this is leading up to a reveal that Tim was poisoned or drugged, and then shot while he was incapacitated.  Then the cat was exposed to the drug when she entered the apartment.

 

[tvfanatic13]

16 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Are you very familiar with with The Belnord (aka The Arconia)?
If so, that must add an entire layer to your viewing experience of the show!

Somewhat familiar but it does make the experience even more enjoyable!

[bettername2come]

That actress they got to play Young Mabel looks so much like Selena Gomez, especially when you saw her at an angle instead of head on. 

[dleighg]

On 9/6/2021 at 5:22 PM, meowmommy said:

If you own a co-op, do you pay rent? 

you pay maintenance fees, which can be significant. 

[aradia22]

Loved the 60's style of Selena's outfit in this episode. 

Learning more about the "Hardy Boys" gave me Pretty Little Liars energy. I don't want a show about teens so I hope the past isn't a huge focus. 

Is Selena's video diary going to be competing with the podcast?

Edited November 30, 2021 by aradia22

[aradia22]

RE: Gore

I don't think it's stomach-turning but I do think it's a lot. Like it's about on the level of Deadbeat or iZombie but it feels unnecessary unless they're really trying to underscore the point Mabel made in this episode about respecting the fact that a person died. Except then she was having a conversation with the corpse/ghost which seems glib (and again, too precious). 

[dovegrey]

On 11/29/2021 at 10:38 PM, aradia22 said:

Except then she was having a conversation with the corpse/ghost which seems glib (and again, too precious). 

Haha, that’s one of my favorite scenes of the entire show. Tim’s actor did this subtle, wistful quiver near the end that gets me every time. All their regrets, lost time, and mistakes were in that one split second of a reaction, and then there’s Mabel sitting on the floor where he died, alone. Carrying on “pretend” conversations with deceased loved ones can be quite cathartic and restorative; I didn’t find it glib at all. It humanized both Tim and Mabel, for me. 

Edited December 2, 2021 by dovegrey

[Zonk]

On 8/31/2021 at 5:55 PM, Snapdragon said:

I'm really over shows haivng cursing and gore just because they can.  If you took out all the random cursing (which just seems out of place and adds nothing to the dialogue) and the graphicness of Tim's head wound, I could watch this with my eight year old.  It just seem like a lame attempt to make the show "edgy" and takes away from the overall Agatha Christie feel that the rest of the series has.

I really didn't notice any swearing. It seemed like mostly natural dialogue to me. People swear when they get angry and Gomez was angry the whole episode.

I also thought the head wound was used to great effect.

Maybe eight year olds shouldn't watch murder misteries.

[paramitch]

I liked this one a lot too.

Honestly, I'm befuddled by complaints about language or gore, when you can see so much worse on several current network crime shows (and for years now), and hear worse on FX, Syfy even, etc.

I'm not a prude about language, so that aspect doesn't bother me either (although I admit that I practically worship at the altar of "Deadwood), but I do agree that it can be distracting if the characters aren't believable in it.

Here, honestly, I never even noticed the language, which I'm taking as a good thing. But to each their own.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 8/31/2021 at 4:49 AM, AnimeMania said:

OK so the Whale tattoo is explained, Volume 47 in the original The Hardy Boys Mystery Stories is entitled "Mystery of the Whale Tattoo". Both girls had one, not sure if both guys got one. You have to be at least 18 to get a tattoo in New York, unless Mabel did it since she is an artist.

Zoe stealing stuff from all the tenants in the building is probably what got her killed and Oscar was the one who took the fall for her death. Tim Kono was hiding all the loot that Zoe stole, was that ring part of the stolen stuff? Why was it in such a large box? Why didn't the 3 mention to us who sent the package, seems like a huge clue?

What was that party on the roof? I am pretty sure the kids were not 21 years old so that they couldn't legally drink. Shouldn't the person throwing the party be considered responsible for some underage drunk kid falling to their death at their party?

How did Tim Kono die, his gunshot didn't look fatal. Why did they pull the fire alarm, probably as a way to get someone from the outside into the building, if so wouldn't somebody inside the building have to have pulled the fire alarm, they should know exactly where (what floor) triggered the fire alarm. Was Tim Kono dead before or after the fire alarm? Did nobody hear the gunshot? How did anybody find the body if nobody was allowed back into the building? Did they search every room looking for the fire and found the dead body?

Oliver (Martin Short) have you ever seen a sex toy? That looked more like a cat toy, especially the kind that they use in Japan. I think Evelyn the cat would visit Tim Kono's room every night where he would sit on the floor and play with her. Why is Evelyn the cat dead, could use some more investigation? Did her owner not see any blood on her fur, where did he find the body?

Zoe's family lived on the entire 11th floor, are they still in the building? They had to have known how close all the Hardy Boys were and that Zoe's death was suspicious.

Why doesn't anybody know Tim Kono?, he lived in the building for years, didn't he run up and down the hallways of every floor? Why did Tim Kono's parents leave him in the building with no money?

Did Tim Kono try to sell the ring or sold the ring and somebody told him it was stolen and the owner wanted it back, so they sent the ring back to him? 

How did the police not find the hollowed-out books?  They all seem to contain jewelry; isn't it likely that the police would have pulled out at least one book?

Wouldn't Bunny notice a box was missing from her front hall table?  And wouldn't she know it was addressed to the deceased?  (If it had been addressed to her, she presumably would have opened it.)  They should have resealed the empty box and put it back in her apartment.

Edited August 5, 2022 by ItCouldBeWorse