S01.E08: Fixed

[helenamonster]

Season finale!

Quote

Detectives investigate the break in; Allison and Patty handle the fallout.

AMC+ airdate: 7/25/21

AMC cable airdate: 8/1/21

[Harvey]

Interesting how Jenn couldn't remember Allison's name, and Kevin couldn't remember Sam's name. I wonder if that is intentional to demonstrate the state of Allison and Sam's marriages.

Allison's conversation about "this should be enough" and no longer reaching for more was strange. I thought the resolution would be that she finds a different perspective on her life and starts to get along with her husband more, but then she calls him a dick and walks off only to also argue with Patty and get into a physical fight with Neil. Also, there is NO WAY in hell that a phone would be able to record a conversation from another room while you are in a closet in a way that is understandable. The drama is very over the top at this point. And in season 2 the cop will be more suspicious of Patty too after that conversation she had with her ex-fiancée.

I was hoping for a more positive ending.

[Spartan Girl]

Kudos to everyone that got creepy vibes from Neil and how clingy he was. We may not have gotten rid of Kevin yet, but maybe Neil is dead. Yay?

I got the subtext of Kevin’s city council run loud. And. Clear. That’s what I get for my moment of pity last week. I almost thought the break-in would be a moment of clarity, but noooooooo.

Allison finally tells Kevin he’s a dick to his face, and it literally went in one ear and out another. But at least she called Sam out on his obvious savior complex. But he might be a problem too; Tammy’s already gotten suspicious after her conversation with Kurt, if she finds out about Allison and Sam…toxic Nice Guys, the gift that keeps on giving.

I’ll definitely be back for season 2 but I was hoping for things to be wrapped up.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Spartan Girl

[Harvey]

I'm a little disappointed we never saw Kevin outside of the sitcom world. 

[WednesdayAddams]

What does it mean now that Neil is out of the sitcom world? What's going to happen between Allison and Patty now? I can't wait for a season 2. I just loved how different this show was.

10 hours ago, Harvey said:

Also, there is NO WAY in hell that a phone would be able to record a conversation from another room

Did he record it? I thought he was going to call Kevin to tell him, not that he recorded the conversation. I could have missed something though. 

[DrSpaceman73]

5 hours ago, Harvey said:

I'm a little disappointed we never saw Kevin outside of the sitcom world. 

I assume he will be the last for it to end.   

Neil is out of it.  I assume kevins dad as well will have it end sometime. Then Kevin.  

I wonder now about Allison's home life as a kid with the comment how Kevin helped her move out of their house two months into dating. 

Lots of loose ends for this not to collapse in them.  Kurt, Neil, Sam, the hired killer all know things.  They can't silence them all. 

4 minutes ago, WednesdayAddams said:

What does it mean now that Neil is out of the sitcom world? What's going to happen between Allison and Patty now? I can't wait for a season 2. I just loved how different this show was.

Did he record it? I thought he was going to call Kevin to tell him, not that he recorded the conversation. I could have missed something though. 

I got the impression he was implying he recorded it. 

[Broderbits]

2 hours ago, WednesdayAddams said:

Did he record it? I thought he was going to call Kevin to tell him, not that he recorded the conversation. I could have missed something though

Do we really think Neil is competent enough to record a conversation? Does he even have a job?

Maybe it's just me, but I think Detective Tammy is too possessive with Patty.

[SoWindsor]

This show started out promising but I really didn’t like this episode. We need a better understanding of Kevin to understand why Alison wants to kill him. Is he abusive? I was hoping to see a more violent side of Kevin outside of the sitcom to better understand Alison’s motivation. Also doesn’t make sense why Patti is so invested. Didn’t come together for me. 

[chocolatine]

I thought the episode was underwhelming as a season finale, until the last scene with Neil. Now I really want to know whether he's really as stupid in real life as he is in the sitcom.

A few episodes ago there was a debate on this forum whether Kurt is an asshole or just boring. In this episode he stopped by Patty's salon - not her home, but a place where there would likely be other people - to ask whether he could "drop off a roast chicken" - without actually bringing a chicken - and dropped some passive-aggressive hints to detective Tammy about things he "should have known." I vote asshole.

15 hours ago, Harvey said:

Interesting how Jenn couldn't remember Allison's name, and Kevin couldn't remember Sam's name.

I'm 99.99% sure Jenn remembered Allison's name just fine and that she said the wrong name on purpose. 

[Aileen]

It was super clear to me that Neil was saying that his leg went dead in the pantry but his ears still worked. I watched the end twice and didn’t get anything other than Neil wanting to call Kevin and tell him.

I loved the reveal that someone was in the kitchen when we saw it switch back to the sitcom when Allison entered the room. I figured it was either Kevin or Neil. 
 

I interpreted the final Allison/Patty argument and then the hand clasp to confirm that Allison does have feelings for her. Did anyone else read it this way?

Edited July 26, 2021 by Aileen

[Schweedie]

2 hours ago, Aileen said:

I interpreted the final Allison/Patty argument and then the hand clasp to confirm that Allison does have feelings for her. Did anyone else read it this way?

I felt like that was hinted at, too. Maybe it was just about how Patty is her only actual friend (but I have thought since the scene in the bathtub that Patty has developed feelings for Allison, and how she immediately went to talk to Tammy that was because she thought there was no chance anything could actually come from that so she might as well go all in with someone else), but her line to Sam about some people liking her the way she was without her having to be "more" was definitely a reference to how had Patty said she liked Allison now that she was 'broken'. If she's comparing how Sam feels about her to how Patty feels about her... Well, the context is romantic.

I'd actually completely forgotten about the "Ultimate Hide 'n Seek" thing so was confused by the change into sitcom world when Allison entered the kitchen - I thought maybe she'd hit a breaking point and that sitcom world would occasionally suck her in. Excellent reveal.

[Harvey]

4 hours ago, Aileen said:

It was super clear to me that Neil was saying that his leg went dead in the pantry but his ears still worked. I watched the end twice and didn’t get anything other than Neil wanting to call Kevin and tell him.

Yeah upon rewatch there is no clear reason to think he recorded the conversation. I just assumed that he did because in that case, he would have proof. Right now, it's like what? He calls Kevin and  tells him Allison tried to have him murdered. No one would believe him, it's  his word against hers and everyone knows he is a fool. So it's  not like one should really worry about what he says when he has no data to back up his claims.

[DrSpaceman73]

I guess watching the end again there doesnt seem to be anything recorded.  He was just going to call Kevin and tell him.  

[WednesdayAddams]

11 hours ago, Aileen said:

I interpreted the final Allison/Patty argument and then the hand clasp to confirm that Allison does have feelings for her. Did anyone else read it this way?

I did too. Their moment in the living room, where Allison stopped herself from completely telling Patty her feelings, then the silence lead me to believe there was something going on. And then the hand holding in the kitchen. To me, this is why the detective is so possessive. It's like she can sense it. 

[WednesdayAddams]

19 hours ago, SoWindsor said:

Is he abusive?

He's completely mentally and verbally abusive to her. He puts her down all the time, but it's "funny" because it's the sitcom world. If she doesn't respond or answer the phone right away, he tells the cops his car was stolen when he knew she had it. Considering what we know about their dating life, it certainly seems like he was controlling and grooming her. 

[AllyB]

I was underwhelmed by this as a season finale, tbh. Like most people, I'd expected throughout the season that we were building up to see Kevin outside of the sitcom as the finale, but I totally get how it is possibly too early for that level of reveal. Seeing either Neil or Kevin's dad out of the sitcom was a good alternative but I didn't feel that we got enough of Neil in the real world. We stayed in the sitcom filter right through the physical assault and only broke into reality once Patti hit him. And I don't think we really got to see the real Neil. I think it would have worked better if the switch to real life had happened as the assault began. Because that attack would not have happened in the sitcom and if felt kind of jarring and confusing.

The other thing is, I find it hard to get a read on Real Neil, from the assault. Obviously it was graphic violence. But Neil had just found out that Allison is trying to have his best friend murdered. That's a massive thing to just discover. It doesn't justify him trying to choke her on the kitchen counter obviously. But it also means that how he reacted isn't necessarily a reflection on who he really is before this point. And I feel a need to know who the person is and what they are like before I can fully judge their reaction to a very extreme situation.

[helenamonster]

I agree that this definitely felt strange for a season finale. It does seem like the creators were going for a multiple-season run all along (no mention of this being a miniseries), but the premise was so high-concept that it also felt tailored to be a one-and-done. So I think I was just expecting a lot more to be wrapped up, when the exact opposite happened. Holy loose threads, Batman.

Allison's arc this season was really interesting. She went from somebody with high, arguably unrealistic aspirations for her life, to telling Sam this episode that she wants who she is to be enough. And I think Patty is the key to everything. She got the ball rolling by telling Allison about the savings account, seems to be the first real friend Allison has ever had, and has now cemented herself as the ride-or-die. Whether Allison's feelings for her are more than that and she just doesn't realize it--hard to say. I so value the female friendships I've gotten to have in my life and can imagine how overwhelming it would feel for Allison to lose that, just as everything else is falling apart. But it's definitely possible that there's more there, and the show seems interested in exploring that.

I knew Patty was in for heartbreak by the end of the season, but I didn't imagine it would be in this way. I've really enjoyed Mary Hollis Inboden and found myself getting teary when she was yelling at Allison about going through Tammy's purse. She's certainly got her number, and it was good of the show to use her as a vessel for calling out Allison's flaws. Sometimes shows will cheat and give that job to an unlikeable character, but coming from Patty, it actually means something.

When Allison called Kevin a dick in public, I thought we were in for an ending of them back at the house, sitcom filter off, and him unloading on her about that. But I guess like everything else it just rolls off him.

So Sam broke up with Jenn, Nick is still alive, Kurt raised Tammy's suspicions, and Neil knows everything (and has been pulled into the real world). A messy finale, but I hope this gets picked up for season 2--I'm in for the long haul.

On 7/26/2021 at 2:40 AM, Aileen said:

I loved the reveal that someone was in the kitchen when we saw it switch back to the sitcom when Allison entered the room. I figured it was either Kevin or Neil. 

Absolutely fantastically done. This show keeps finding interesting ways to use the format switch to its advantage. I'm excited to see what else they can do with it moving forward.

On 7/26/2021 at 6:51 AM, Harvey said:

Yeah upon rewatch there is no clear reason to think he recorded the conversation. I just assumed that he did because in that case, he would have proof. Right now, it's like what? He calls Kevin and  tells him Allison tried to have him murdered. No one would believe him, it's  his word against hers and everyone knows he is a fool. So it's  not like one should really worry about what he says when he has no data to back up his claims.

Based on what we've seen of his relationships with both of them, I think Kevin would believe Neil over Allison, no question. The bigger issue for me is, how are Allison and Patty going to convince him not to blab?

[AllyB]

6 hours ago, helenamonster said:

I've really enjoyed Mary Hollis Inboden and found myself getting teary when she was yelling at Allison about going through Tammy's purse. She's certainly got her number, and it was good of the show to use her as a vessel for calling out Allison's flaws. Sometimes shows will cheat and give that job to an unlikeable character, but coming from Patty, it actually means something.

I felt a bit like Allison was being wronged here. Patty accused her of only setting Nick up as the main drug dealer in order to have Patty owe her one, so she'd look in Tammy's notebook. But it was only after Allison heard that Nick was still alive that she felt the need to find out what Tammy may have written about her. I don't think Allison had any ulterior motive in setting Nick up to get Patty off the hook. She truly just wanted to make Patty safe in doing that. Using Patty to find out if Tammy was suspicious of her came after.

[arc]

Holy shit, everything about breaking in to Nick's basement suite was incredibly ill-advised. Patty almost saved Allison by giving her time to leave and instead Allison kept on trying to hide Nick's packing.

Wow, Allison broke the sitcom when she cursed Kevin out and it had none of the rhythm of multicam writing. And then the sitcom fixed itself almost immediately by latching on to the "everyday hero" phrase.

Kurt's a petty dick.

Wow, Neil broke into single-cam world! TBH I thought maybe Allison and Patty coulda passed it off as a little gas poisoning -- Neil was hiding right beside the water heater, after all. I guess that would have been more of the sitcom way of resolving things. Patty smashing his head and threatening him is definitely more in the single cam world's methods. But then again, that fight between Neil and Allison was deeply upsetting and un-sitcom-y.

This episode really did a lot to deepen and evolve its critical relationship to multicams with the way it broke from tradition.

On 7/25/2021 at 4:36 AM, Spartan Girl said:

Kudos to everyone that got creepy vibes from Neil and how clingy he was. We may not have gotten rid of Kevin yet, but maybe Neil is dead. Yay?

He's not dead. Patty told him not to tell Kevin anything, while holding a broken bottle on him. (and also being the sister who basically manages his life for him and lets him be a man-child.) He's just injured.

I'm really pleased with how intricately the show has woven plot threads and brought them along. The way Allison accidentally shut down her drug source. The way the search for replacements actually led to the gun that foiled the murder. Edit: especially how “ultimate hide and seek” led to Neil overhearing the murder plot.

I do wonder how long Sam can keep that diner running without his now-former in-laws pumping cash in.

Edited July 28, 2021 by arc

[Spartan Girl]

Okay, upon rewatch, that blow clearly wasn’t enough to kill Neil, but his days may still be numbered.

I’m surprised some reviews are actually sticking up for Sam, claiming that his speech to Allison was genuine and calling her lashing out at him as “misplaced”. They obviously missed Allison’s point. She recognized that running away with him would just be a repeat of how she used Kevin to get away from her parents. Also, she doesn’t want a guy that clearly sees her as a charity case. This show has made it clear that there are no real “good guys” among its male characters, and Sam is no different.

[cardigirl]

Okay, I know that Kevin is supposed to be a metaphor for the imbalances portrayed in marriage shown in a lot of sitcoms, but he hasn't generated enough antipathy in me to be disappointed that Allison's plan failed.

Nor do I care for Allison all that much. I think Patty's speech to her was pretty much on the nose about how Allison had manipulated her all along. Same with Sam, I think he gave her some hard truths about herself. And she said if she's left on her own she ends up doing stupid stuff like marrying Kevin. I just do not understand why she doesn't file for divorce. Show will have to up the character development next season for me. 

[DanaK]

Well that was an unexpected ending

[PrincessPurrsALot]

I was surprised that the show didn't flip to black and white when Neil started choking Alison. The someone is in the other room and overheard everything trope was pure sitcom.  Struggling for the phone also fit, as if without a cell phone there is no other way to inform someone about something you heard. They live next door.  But once he started choking her it went well beyond the normal sitcom level of "hilarity".  Now we were in the very frightening real world of this show..

I think Alison was genuinely trying to help Patty by breaking into the not-quite-dead-yet guy's house.  With all of their negative history and entrenched sarcasm, they have become close friends.  Alison tried to be helpful because she cares about Patty.  So I did not agree with Patty's assessment that Alison set her up.  At the point that they decided to break into the apartment, Alison didn't think of herself as a suspect.  She was the victim of a home break in during which the presumed robber was shot.  Only later did she get concerned. 

Patty felt (rightfully) terrible for snooping on her girlfriend and took it out on Alison.  Not uncommon inhuman behavior. Neither of them has the ability to comfortably express how important the other is to them.  That's where the communication broke down.  

Kevin showed yet more of his shallow, self absorbed personality.  He quickly puts aside the need to deal with having shot a man.  Then he decides he is exactly what the city needs.  Finally he completely disregards Alison calling him a dick. 

[DrSpaceman73]

Not to point out the obvious but Kevin this episode pretty much becomes the towns Donald trump. 

[seacliffsal]

I have really mixed feelings about this episode.  I guess it's part of its nonconformity that none of the loose strings were tied up-I thought at least something would be.  Even Nick didn't stay dead.  

Neil was the real surprise for me in how very violent he became.  It shows quite a bit more of who he is and why he apparently doesn't have a job, live with his sister, and doesn't seem to have friends outside of Kevin.  Interestingly, even Kevin tried to get rid of him for a bit (ultimate hide and seek). I actually had a similar experience in real life when playing in a pool and a quite a bit bigger and stronger family friend came close to drowning me-my father was there, saw what was happening, and saved me.  The man's family sent him away to live with relatives right after that.  So, sudden and very real violence is a real thing.

It was interesting that Sam caught Allison's "giving up" comment related to having a relationship with him.  She also had a lot of displace anger towards him pertaining to the campaign event.  It seems she puts a lot of anger on others as a way of deflecting it away from herself.

I'm sure I'll have more comments after thinking aboutthe episode a bit more.

[Spartan Girl]

59 minutes ago, seacliffsal said:

Neil was the real surprise for me in how very violent he became.  It shows quite a bit more of who he is and why he apparently doesn't have a job, live with his sister, and doesn't seem to have friends outside of Kevin.  Interestingly, even Kevin tried to get rid of him for a bit (ultimate hide and seek). I actually had a similar experience in real life when playing in a pool and a quite a bit bigger and stronger family friend came close to drowning me-my father was there, saw what was happening, and saved me.  The man's family sent him away to live with relatives right after that.  So, sudden and very real violence is a real thing.

Neil has been giving off red flags for a while with his unhealthy obsession with Kevin—last week he was going through his trash FFS. Also I noted in the first episode that he made some inappropriate cracks at Allison about him and Kevin having a three way with her as well, among other things. Like Kevin, he’s been doing things that in sitcoms are laughed off as doofy guy behavior that in real life would not be okay.

So to see him start choking Allison was shocking but not surprising. People have been theorizing that Kevin is physically abusive for a while. I guess we were looking at the wrong guy.

[helenamonster]

I wonder if we're seeing the setup to turn Neil against Kevin. The track has already been laid by him feeling shoved to the side in favor of a baby and a city council campaign. Allison and Patty could tell him about the two birthdays as well, which I have a feeling he would be irrationally upset by (it didn't even occur to him that Kevin should probably be spending his birthday with his wife).

A direction I could definitely see the show go is widening the pool of people who want Kevin dead. First Allison, then Neil, then maybe Pete--pull everybody out of the sitcom until Kevin has nobody left and he can truly go fuck himself.

[thuganomics85]

Wow, did not predict that they were going to end things on a cliffhanger.  I guess they have faith about getting renewed for another season.  Granted, in this day and age, even if AMC doesn't pick it back up, the chances of finding an extra life on a streaming network isn't that far-fetched.

Interesting seeing Kevin actually being thrown off his normal game for a second and actually be shaken over the break-in/having to shoot Nick, but I should have known he would snap out of it and go back to being the Kevin that can fuck himself.  Which is a Kevin that is running for council.  I'm guessing this will be a focal point of a potential next season and I imagine he'll keep falling upwards until he actually wins.  Sadly, that wouldn't even be that far-fetched in the real world...

Sam is someone who continues to have valid points concerning Allison at times, but the problem continues to be that he portrays himself as pretty much blameless and that makes any fair points he has feel cheap and unearned.  I just have a feeling that this is something he always does, and it makes me wonder about all of his gripes with not just Allison, but Jenn, and wonder just how much of it is him fudging things to make himself look better.  Again, he might not be "Kevin bad", but I feel like he can be pretty nasty in his own way.

Still not sure what to make of Tammy and if she will be good for Patty at the end.  I do get a jealously vibe from her when it comes to Allison, and wonder if that will come into play.

The Allison/Patty fight was well done and I saw both sides to it.  But I do think they have a legit friendship/bond here (and perhaps something more later?) that will never be broken.

Did not see the stuff with Neil coming.  It was actually more creepy when he started strangling Allison, but they kept the sitcom setting going, and only stopped after Patty came in with the bottle.  But now he's been knocked out of "sitcom world", and knows what Allison and Patty tried to do, so that should make things lively.

All in all, I'm a bit mixed on the ending; admittedly a lot due to my own expectations and hopes not being met (yet?); but I thought this was an interesting little show that was a fun mix of the "anti-hero" story with a satirical takedown on sitcom tropes and cliches.  Acting was great too: with the highlights being a great introduction to Mary Hollis Inboden and getting to see Annie Murphy play something different compared to Alexis on Schitt's Creek and nailing it.  I'll definitely be back if this gets renewed. 

[nilyank]

1 hour ago, thuganomics85 said:

Did not see the stuff with Neil coming.  It was actually more creepy when he started strangling Allison, but they kept the sitcom setting going, and only stopped after Patty came in with the bottle.  But now he's been knocked out of "sitcom world", and knows what Allison and Patty tried to do, so that should make things lively.

 

That was just scary. Neil is twice Allison's size and he could easily knock her down without much effort. Even knowing that she tried to have Kevin killed, doesn't give him the right to put his hands own her much less trying to choke her to death.

I do think that Tammy has always been a bit jealous because she senses there is something between Allison and Patty but no knowing exactly what.

[Pike Ludwell]

They whittled the finale to the least consequential sort of "big" ending possible, so they'd have plenty of possibilities left over for next season. I'm disappointed because I wanted the cretin Kevin gone and for Allison to prove to be more of a competent, heroic sort of person. But they reduced her.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Pike Ludwell

[Chyromaniac]

This week on a very special “For Better or Worcester...”

 I dunno- this felt more like a season two premiere than a season one finale.  For me, the best possible season ending was the gunshot last week.  Normally I haaaaate cliffhanger endings for shows without a rock solid renewal- but here I think it would have worked, having the last moments be Allison alone contemplating the implications of whatever circumstances were unfolding downstairs.  Who shot who?  Was it worth it?  What happens now?  Will she be found out?  How does she feel about any of this?

Instead we close out on this week, with, IMO, a much less interesting cliffhanger.  Now Neil knows what’s up.  And...?  I think part of my ambivalence is that I never really cared about seeing Neil, Pete, or even Kevin in the “real world.”  To me, without the sitcom banter and wacky hijinks, I just figured them to be angry drunk jerks- which seems to be the case.

Otherwise, if the climax was supposed to be about resolving Allison and Patty’s dynamic, then I wish they would have just said what they had in mind.  Are they friends?  Romantic?  My reading of them is as makeshift sisters- they don’t “like” each other, but see each other as someone they need to support.  But if that’s the case, I wish they would have been more opaque, rather than the handholding thing.

 I do hope this comes back because I want to see how this all shakes out- but I would prefer to have season two feel more like it’s building to something, rather than how this one ended up.

[arc]

16 hours ago, helenamonster said:

I wonder if we're seeing the setup to turn Neil against Kevin. The track has already been laid by him feeling shoved to the side in favor of a baby and a city council campaign. Allison and Patty could tell him about the two birthdays as well, which I have a feeling he would be irrationally upset by (it didn't even occur to him that Kevin should probably be spending his birthday with his wife).

A direction I could definitely see the show go is widening the pool of people who want Kevin dead. First Allison, then Neil, then maybe Pete--pull everybody out of the sitcom until Kevin has nobody left and he can truly go fuck himself.

Personally, I don’t see it. Even if Neil could be flipped, there’s no way he has the guile to hide anything from Kevin. If he flips, he kills Kevin or at least has a for-real, permanent friend breakup.

And Pete is 1000% in Kevin’s corner. Honestly it’s a little weird how much he’s Kevin’s other wingman; I feel like most older sitcom dads aren’t so subservient to their adult sons.

[Darian]

I just needed that handhold at the end. I'm not shipping Allison and Patty and I'm not not shipping them. I just want them in some kind of relationship. I just really loved the whole season. 

 

[cardigirl]

On 8/2/2021 at 8:37 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Did not see the stuff with Neil coming.  It was actually more creepy when he started strangling Allison, but they kept the sitcom setting going, and only stopped after Patty came in with the bottle.  But now he's been knocked out of "sitcom world", and knows what Allison and Patty tried to do, so that should make things lively.

All in all, I'm a bit mixed on the ending; admittedly a lot due to my own expectations and hopes not being met (yet?); but I thought this was an interesting little show that was a fun mix of the "anti-hero" story with a satirical takedown on sitcom tropes and cliches.  Acting was great too: with the highlights being a great introduction to Mary Hollis Inboden and getting to see Annie Murphy play something different compared to Alexis on Schitt's Creek and nailing it.  I'll definitely be back if this gets renewed. 

 

On 8/2/2021 at 10:10 PM, nilyank said:

That was just scary. Neil is twice Allison's size and he could easily knock her down without much effort. Even knowing that she tried to have Kevin killed, doesn't give him the right to put his hands own her much less trying to choke her to death. (Emphasis mine.)

I do think that Tammy has always been a bit jealous because she senses there is something between Allison and Patty but no knowing exactly what.

I've been reading lots of reviews and articles about the final scene where Neil is knocked out of the sitcom world into the "real" world and how he was scary and had no right to attack Allison in that manner, but I dunno. I mean. He had just heard that she had planned to have his best friend murdered, planned an actual hit on the guy, and then she grabbed his phone telling him he couldn't say anything, so yeah, his reaction was extreme, but understandable. Would he have killed her?  I don't think so. I'm just still reeling from the fact that the only solution to Allison's anger/sadness/rage/unhappiness/mistreatment is to murder her husband. So violence on her part is okay but not on Neil's? 

Yeah, I know, it's all symbolism for how women have been screwed over by men from the beginning of time and there is no way out but to join forces with other women and kill all the men, but jeez, this show did not get me there. Murder is murder, isn't it? 

[Cheyanne11]

21 hours ago, cardigirl said:

his reaction was extreme, but understandable.

It really wasn't.

[cardigirl]

1 hour ago, Cheyanne11 said:

It really wasn't.

Let's reverse the roles. 

[Cheyanne11]

1 hour ago, Cheyanne11 said:

23 hours ago, cardigirl said:

his reaction was extreme, but understandable.

It really wasn't.

 

22 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

Let's reverse the roles. 

Yeah, still not understandable in the least.  

[seacliffsal]

Hmmm, does Niel's overreaction to Allison equal Allison's overreaction to Kevin?  Strangling someone to get back a phone versus killing someone to get out of a marriage?

I think the overall major weakness of the story is that Allison could get a divorce to end her marriage to Kevin but has opted for murder instead (and was willing to pay several thousand dollars to do so after moaning that a divorce would leave her with nothing [when obviously she had several thousand dollars somewhere]).

I do like this show but it's that glaring problem of divorce versus murder that lessens the impact of the story for me.

[cardigirl]

4 hours ago, Cheyanne11 said:

 

Yeah, still not understandable in the least.  

So, if Allison had been hiding in the closet and overheard Neil plotting to kill Patty, and he took her phone, and she laid hands on him, that would be unforgiveable too?  (Or smashed a glass beer mug into his neck, or say, hired a killer to shoot him in his own home and make it look like a burglary.) Only women are allowed to react in desperation. 

1 hour ago, seacliffsal said:

Hmmm, does Niel's overreaction to Allison equal Allison's overreaction to Kevin?  Strangling someone to get back a phone versus killing someone to get out of a marriage?

I think the overall major weakness of the story is that Allison could get a divorce to end her marriage to Kevin but has opted for murder instead (and was willing to pay several thousand dollars to do so after moaning that a divorce would leave her with nothing [when obviously she had several thousand dollars somewhere]).

I do like this show but it's that glaring problem of divorce versus murder that lessens the impact of the story for me.

We're supposed to see Kevin as evil incarnate. That Allison's only way out is to destroy him. As long as Kevin is alive, she cannot thrive, but the show just has not gotten me there. Plus, she's not doing this just by herself. She's pulled Patty into the act (accessory) and to some extent Sam, by getting involved with him again. She decided she couldn't just walk away, she had to kill Kevin, because what, unless he's dead, he'll just keep on winning, and she'll keep on losing? Then the show needs to get me there and it hasn't.  

If they get a second season, it'll have to go dark early and really deep, because Neil won't keep his mouth shut, even for his sister, and they'll have to decide what they're willing to do with him. 

 

[Cheyanne11]

45 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

Only women are allowed to react in desperation. 

How was Neil desperate?  All he had to do was walk out the door and go tell Kevin--no phone needed.  

[pennben]

I think Neil’s violent reaction was meant to show us these ‘lovable lugs’ are anything but.  We start with Patty & Allison in b/w showing that all is not well in the sitcom fam, now we’re getting a piece of info as to why they feel that way. I don’t think he becomes an ‘ally’, I think, fingers crossed in the next season, we get to see more of who he really is. 

[AgathaC]

From interviews I’ve heard and read, I really don’t think they’re going to show Kevin as being physically abusive. Mainly because Valerie Armstrong has been pretty clear (I’ll have to find those again) that she doesn’t want to go there. Physical abuse is “easy.” It’s a pretty well-agreed-upon line in the sand.

Verbal/emotional abuse is trickier. It’s much less-recognized and less-understood. Yet, it is hugely damaging.

I have been a victim of verbal and emotional abuse before and it really is difficult to explain to people who haven’t experienced it. The gas lighting. The instability. The walking on eggshells. The subtle undermining of confidence and sense of self. I ended up wondering if I was going crazy. If i was a horrible person. If i was overreacting. And, the thing is? Most people would probably tell me I was. Because this type of treatment is that insidious.

My therapist has clients who have been victims of various types and she says every one of them says the verbal/emotional abuse is worse than the physical.

I am well-educated. I have a good job. I have supportive family members nearby. Yet, I, too, felt like I couldn’t leave. Or I could but it wouldn’t be a good idea because he could make my life even worse. It’s hard to explain. But if I felt that way WITH a good support system…

I’m not proud, but there were times I fantasized he would be killed in an accident. I never even considered killing him, but the “life would be so much better if he just - went away”? Totally get it.

I say all this just to say I really appreciate this show shining a light on these situations.

That said, I think it could do a better job of explaining Allison’s frame of mind. The creative team has been clear there are no throw-away lines. Hints have been dropped about Allison’s history before and with Kevin but I think it should be made more clear to be effective. Maybe they’ll delve into that more in Season 2.

Another little thing: in the last episode, Pete made a remark about how he thought “fun Allison” drowned at a water park 8 years ago. Really makes me wonder what happened.

[Avabelle]

I’m intrigued by This show so much. I especially want to see Kevin in the  sitcom world. I think I need to understand moreso why Alison wants to kill him because as bad as he is he doesn’t seem that bad.

[AgathaC]

I think he’s pretty darn bad but I also think Allison’s daydream is over the top. Does he deserve murder? No. But I attribute it to the dark comedy framework and to Allison’s pent-up rage and trauma. Given the hints that have been dropped, I think there are a lot of other things that have happened over the years that have added up. Like the water park thing Pete alluded to (that was an awfully specific comment) or even little things like her not speaking up about her birthday cake. I’m definitely intrigued but I hope they flesh Allison out more in Season 2. I think the case is there to be made for why she is the way she is but I think we need more attention on it for the pieces to connect.

[Darian]

I've had true crime TV on and my spouse was working in the next room. He said, "I can't believe how stupid people are and the stupid things they kill over." This is why Allison's plan to murder Kevin rings true to me. Long-term  consumption of true crime books and tv has shown me people, even ones with all kinds of other options and resources, will kill for something that seems almost trivial. So I've never questioned that.  

[cleo]

Just finished this. Overall I really enjoyed the season, but a few things-

-the actual physical violence from Neil in this ep was shocking. Bc all season The show was so careful to not cross that kind of line- that Allison was abused in other ways but not physical- there was at times an undercurrent of threat in some of the eps but they kept it as a threat

And so somehow when he started strangling her I just found it shocked me, but the act also was not so surprising. Even if the writer doesn't want to go there with Kevin - they have created a world where the men treat her poorly and in Kevin's case abused her or controlled her- and violence just seems like another step down that path. So it was shocking to finally see it but not surprising if that makes sense.

I don't know if I ship the two women, maybe.

Dislikes- the cop is soooo obnoxious. I thought she was really harsh in.the last ep when she wanted to dump Patty for not kissing her in the street or whatever her issue was. And then in this ep- her comments about Allison. Like regardless of what she thinks, she knows Patti is friends with her, it just seems obnoxious to then insult her. Especially since the cop does not actually seem suspicious of her. So she was just being bitchy.

They've been together for what 2 weeks and the cop is acting like they've been together forever. Way too overbearing.

Sam- I'm just over the back and forth. It's tedious. I could barely pay attention to the conversation at the dumpster.

A female Breaking Bad would've been cool but Allison (,and to a lesser extent Patti) are so dumb. Break into dude's place with no gloves. Hiring dude in the first place- they would be at his mercy afterwards. 

There were other examples earlier when she wanted the pills. Like right- go to a doctor and get a scrip for Oxy. Then kill your husband with them. There is a record of you suddenly needing oxy ffs. 

Politics- meh please spare me. Nothing can top real life at this point and real life politics is enough to drive me to drink. I dont want to watch it on a fictional TV show.

Still- enjoyed it overall. Really happy they got a second season. 

Edited November 5, 2021 by cleo

[arc]

10 hours ago, cleo said:

There were other examples earlier when she wanted the pills. Like right- go to a doctor and get a scrip for Oxy. Then kill your husband with them. There is a record of you suddenly needing oxy ffs. 

Eh, then she’d just say “he must have stolen my prescription”. It’s not a complete given that a dead husband who OD’ed on OxyContin must have been poisoned by his wife.

 

[chaifan]

On 8/15/2021 at 5:51 AM, pennben said:

I think Neil’s violent reaction was meant to show us these ‘lovable lugs’ are anything but.  We start with Patty & Allison in b/w showing that all is not well in the sitcom fam, now we’re getting a piece of info as to why they feel that way. I don’t think he becomes an ‘ally’, I think, fingers crossed in the next season, we get to see more of who he really is. 

I agree with this.  I think/hope in season 2 we will see more of who Neil really is.  With his size advantage over Allison there was no reason to start choking her.  He could have easily pushed her down or out of his way.  He and Kevin are both abusers, just in different ways.

I don't know where they go with all of this in Season 2.  Nick may still live.  And even if he dies, I kept wondering where the picture of Kevin and Kevin's schedule that Allison gave him are sitting around.  Maybe they were on him, maybe they're at his house.  But I doubt Nick was smart enough (or cared enough) to get rid of them in a responsible hired killer type of way.  So I think those will resurface. 

Neil has heard enough to go to Kevin and/or the cops.  I doubt Allison and Patty will kill him.  If Neil is truly the doofus we see in sitcom-land, they could have possibly convinced him they were planning a murder mystery dinner party.  But I think it's too late for that now.  So how do they get him not to talk, or if he does talk, to get people to not believe him?  Does he blackmail Allison into staying "happily" married to Kevin and/or having a kid?

Either way, there's no way of convincing anyone that Kevin is the town drug dealer at this point. Maybe the cops will just pin that on Nick, especially if he dies.  Or maybe this will continue to hang over Patty's head.  I'm actually surprised the pharmacist hasn't ratted her out to make a plea deal.  And Kurt's an ass.  He all but ratted out Patty for drug dealing, just because she doesn't want to marry him. 

So what does Allison do from here?  Sam's not her answer.  I don't see killing Kevin as an option at this point, with all the attention surrounding them.  But then what's the plot for Season 2? 

ETA:  I also noticed that the scene with Neil turned the whole "let's walk 3 feet away so no one can hear us" TV trope on it's head.  He heard a conversation (slightly heated, but not abnormal volume) in another room, through a door, when he was in a closet.  That would never happen in regular TV land. 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2021 by chaifan

[Barbarblacksheep]

On 11/5/2021 at 4:06 PM, cleo said:

Dislikes- the cop is soooo obnoxious. I thought she was really harsh in.the last ep when she wanted to dump Patty for not kissing her in the street or whatever her issue was. And then in this ep- her comments about Allison. Like regardless of what she thinks, she knows Patti is friends with her, it just seems obnoxious to then insult her. Especially since the cop does not actually seem suspicious of her. So she was just being bitchy.

They've been together for what 2 weeks and the cop is acting like they've been together forever. Way too overbearing.

Ms. Late-to-the-party chiming in here. YES. Tammy is very controlling. Having Patti drink vodka sodas instead of beer on their first date, right off the bat (didn't she say something like "you'll get used to them"?)  (there was also a scene in that same episode where Tammy introduces Patti to her work crew and somebody makes a crack about 'the other ones'--I assume Tammy's exes--and Tammy looks really pissed and uncomfortable. I don't think she has a good history with her other girlfriends.) And then this last episode, where Patti suggested they go to Kevin's campaign party and Tammy just flat out puts the kibosh on  that immediately because SHE wants to go bowling. And she's definitely really jealous of Allison. Whether she thinks she & Patti have feelings for each other, or is just jealous of the friendship, I don't know. But yeah,  red flags all over.

I'm glad I watched this when I did, when the second season is just starting. I'm really curious to see what they do with Neil, among all the other plotlines. The fact that they kept Nick alive is also interesting. I wasn't disappointed in this episode at all, I love that the creators/writers keep you guessing and things are unpredictable.

[possibilities]

On 9/30/2021 at 1:13 PM, AgathaC said:

even little things like her not speaking up about her birthday cake.

That really struck me. In what universe does someone not get a piece of their own birthday cake? That's so out there, it's hard to even imagine. It sounds petty, but it's also just really so extreme that it's not petty. I mean, it's cake. So what? But the whole idea of birthday cake is that it's for the person whose birthday it is. So if you're being deprived of a slice of your own birthday cake... it's not random, that's really something. And to me that says: ye gods, there is a lot else that happened that we haven't even considered.

The hand holding felt to me like a reference to Thelma and Louise. I think Patty does have feelings for Allison-- she plays it that way. I am not getting the same type of feelings from Allison to Patty-- I think she values her for real, but she's too unstable and swept away by anyone who seems supportive for me to take it as actual romantic or sexual attraction. I do think her friendship is becoming more real, though, and it's not just manipulation so she can use Patty for her own ends.

I lack the imagination to think of what they can do about Neil.

I didn't think Allison deciding she wants to be good enough as she is was her way of giving up hope. I thought it was the first step toward being actually healthy. I didn't think it meant she was going to settle for a life of doormat wifedom and conniving for revenge. I thought it was about not feeling worthless and unworthy, and taking a step towards self-love and taking charge of her life, not bargaining for approval.

I loved when she called Kevin a dick, but I would have preferred if she'd announced she was divorcing him. But I think it's too big of a step. She's just barely decided she's not a charity case and that she's deserving of a relationship with an equal.

Tammy terrifies me. She acts like she's got Patty under surveillance. She says no to every suggestion Patty makes for how to spend time together, negs her and her friends, and sandbags everything til Patty agrees to do what Tammy wants. It feels like she's a stalker, except Patty acquiesced so she doesn't have to stalk, she can just hover.

Kevin and his dad wanting to get rid of Neil (dad says they should have done the hide trick a long time ago) and Neil being jealous of anything that Kevin wants to do that doesn't match his own interests and put him in the center... it's interesting because I thought Kevin liked having a sycophant. And I do think he likes it. And as soon as Neil stops being one, they want to get rid of him.

Maybe next season Neil wants to kill Kevin, since he's not getting to be in first place if Kevin continues to run for office.