S01.E02: New Day

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, candle96 said:

Yeah, I think they're cluing us in to the fact that The White Lotus isn't quite as nice as they pretend to be. The room mixup, the lack of activities for the father and son, the one-bedroom suites (which, while certainly more expensive than I what could afford, don't actually look that amazing), I even chuckled at the manager bringing Shane and Rachael the free bottle of Veuve Clicquot. If these are super VIP guests, I'd think only Dom or Cristal would be acceptable. And yes, I realize that's super nitpicky, just wondering if it's a deliberate choice.

I'm assuming the Four Seasons is actually much nicer.

The Four Seasons is a five-star resort; this one looks like four stars at best. The target clientele of a place like that would be the upper-middle class, not the 1%. The show wants us to believe that Nicole is the CEO of Google and Shane's family has old money and a lot of influence. People like that would choose much nicer accommodations. Unless there's something very special about the island that we haven't been shown yet, and the White Lotus is the only hotel there, I don't see what the draw is.

[chediavolo]

OK I looked away from the TV at the end for a few seconds when the son was at the beach looking into the water with set . I thought  he saw a mermaid tail! But then it showed a whale or a dolphin I guess. But I thought for a minute the show  going somewhere strange. 

[izabella]

2 hours ago, chocolatine said:

The Four Seasons is a five-star resort; this one looks like four stars at best. The target clientele of a place like that would be the upper-middle class, not the 1%. The show wants us to believe that Nicole is the CEO of Google and Shane's family has old money and a lot of influence. People like that would choose much nicer accommodations. Unless there's something very special about the island that we haven't been shown yet, and the White Lotus is the only hotel there, I don't see what the draw is.

I'm pretty sure this hotel is on a Hawaiian island.  That is definitely not a four or five star hotel manager!

They started off with the girls imagining the backgrounds and stories of the people around them based on appearances alone.  Now they are showing us who those hotel guests really are, and are peeling back their layers and making them more complicated with each episode.  Like the conversation between Nicole and Rachel, things are more complex than they first appear. 

I don't know what the show is building to, but they teased us with the coffin being loaded onto the plane, so there is a sense of mystery.  My guess is the hotel manager od's on the girls' drugs.

[Rosebud1970]

On 7/18/2021 at 8:10 PM, Traveller519 said:

I don't know where we're going, yet, but I'm strangely engrossed by everyone's story.

I do wonder if we're going to get a Shane redemption of sort to come. He's the only one who's seemed devoid of positive traits thus far.

Judging from the opening scene at the airport in Ep. 1, I seriously doubt redemption is coming Shane's way any time soon.

[preeya]

4 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Unless there's something very special about the island that we haven't been shown yet, and the White Lotus is the only hotel there, I don't see what the draw is.

HBO's The White Lotus Was Filmed in a Five-Star Hawaiian Resort

The cast and crew lived at a Four Seasons in Maui for three months.  Article here: https://tinyurl.com/yhvq8u8a

[edhopper]

7 hours ago, candle96 said:

I'm assuming the Four Seasons is actually much nicer.

I've  walked through it (couldn't afford it either) it is super nice.

[edhopper]

6 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I feel like I'm missing something.  I presumed the Mossbacher's are in a one bedroom suite by choice, not because the resort doesn't offer anything bigger.  In terms of the activities, I got the impression the son was simply not interested in hanging out with his father, not that the resort did not offer adequate activities for families. 

Maybe the White Lotus doesn't,  but the Four Seasons has two bedroom suites.

 

 

[Mr. R0b0t]

Within the confines of the show it's a 5-star hotel with 3-star service.

[chocolatine]

2 hours ago, preeya said:

HBO's The White Lotus Was Filmed in a Five-Star Hawaiian Resort

The cast and crew lived at a Four Seasons in Maui for three months.  Article here: https://tinyurl.com/yhvq8u8a

The article says that the set designer made a lot of changes to make The White Lotus look very different from The Four Seasons, so I stand by my original statement that The White Lotus doesn't look as nice. The decor looks tacky on the screen and is probably even worse up close. I'm also sure that the staff of The Four Seasons acts much more professionally than Armond.

[AzureOwl]

On 7/18/2021 at 11:35 PM, Cheezwiz said:

Also curious as to whether Olivia is simply envious that her friend Paula is getting male attention, or if she's actually attracted to her. I like that they gave the poor awkward brother a nice moment by himself at the end of the episode.

Between her reactions to Paula flirting with the hotel employee and her reaction when Rachel disrobed during the first episode, I'm pretty sure Olivia is supposed to be a lesbian. 

On 7/18/2021 at 11:31 PM, chocolatine said:

Mark said that Nicole "runs one of the country's most profitable search engines" so she must be earning at least eight figures a year in total comp. She can easily afford to rent a villa with dedicated staff on a private island for her vacation rather than a one-bedroom suite in what looks like a four-star hotel. She could have at least sprung for a two-bedroom suite; that way they'd all still be together but Quinn would get his own space.

The husband probably paid for the vacation. I remember that its been established that he makes significantly less than her, so letting him pay for the trip is her way of avoiding emasculating him. 

[AzureOwl]

On 7/19/2021 at 3:04 PM, dmc said:

Rachel is not a journalist, a journalist pitches ideas and writes original content based on them.  Rachel is a splicer, she cuts and pastes other articles into one for usually unnamed online publications.  She may be talented but her work wouldn't be indicative of it because it heavily using others' work.  That means that other journalists wrote articles saying this woman rode the "me too" movement and all she did was organize it into an online publication.  That's what she was trying to tell Nicole.  So yeah, Nicole can be angry that she mindlessly cuts and pastes narratives without asking if they are true for a living.  But to me the blame lies with the orginal journalist who pitched this idea, wrote the piece and to the editor that greenlighted it for publication.  

Rachel's problem was that she was trying to have her cake and eat it too. First she tries to take credit for writing the article, but the second Nicole reacts badly to it she claims she was only repurposing someone else's writing.

On 7/19/2021 at 11:47 AM, Mr. R0b0t said:

So why are Papa Mossbacher's balls swollen, or is it psychosomatic?  

He said is was a bad reaction to a virus.

[chocolatine]

15 minutes ago, AzureOwl said:

The husband probably paid for the vacation. I remember that its been established that he makes significantly less than her, so letting him pay for the trip is her way of avoiding emasculating him. 

You're probably right, based on the comments Mark has made about his late father having been an "alpha" and how hard it is to be a man these days. But that makes me really sad for Nicole. What's the point of working so hard and putting up with all of the tech industry BS (I'm the only female engineering director at a tech company, so I speak from experience) if you don't let yourself enjoy the perks because you married an insecure schmuck? She should have said "too bad," rented a five-bedroom villa with a butler and private chef, and told him he was welcome to join her if and when he got over himself.

Edited July 21, 2021 by chocolatine

[Bulldog]

8 hours ago, chocolatine said:

She should have said "too bad," rented a five-bedroom villa with a butler and private chef, and told him he was welcome to join her if and when he got over himself.

So, Nicole should treat Mark the way that Shane treats Rachel?  We've had two episode threads vilifying Shane for his "I make the money so I call the shots" attitude. 

[chocolatine]

3 hours ago, Bulldog said:

So, Nicole should treat Mark the way that Shane treats Rachel?  We've had two episode threads vilifying Shane for his "I make the money so I call the shots" attitude. 

Mark is the one who's being controlling here.

[dmc]

12 hours ago, AzureOwl said:

Rachel's problem was that she was trying to have her cake and eat it too. First she tries to take credit for writing the article, but the second Nicole reacts badly to it she claims she was only repurposing someone else's writing.

He said is was a bad reaction to a virus.

Agreed but when I read these articles I can always tell they are spliced together.  I mean it barely qualifies as writing. 

I think she wants to be a journalist.  I mean its possible that if she does enough of this kind of work, maybe it will lead something better.  I don't know, I don't know how a journalism career works.  

But I thought it was odd that Nicole would read that kind of piece and know it offhand.  

I mean anyone would know if the NYTs wrote an article like that about them.  Some people would know if Politico did a similar article...by the time you get to the publications like the ones this woman would write for...where they just take bits and pieces of the NYT article and politico's...Nicole must be reading all press about herself to reference it like this.  

 

Edited July 21, 2021 by dmc

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, dmc said:

I mean anyone would know if the NYTs wrote an article like that about them.  Some people would know if Politico did a similar article...by the time you get to the publications like the ones this woman would write for...where they just take bits and pieces of the NYT article and politico's...Nicole must be reading all press about herself to reference it like this.  

She's the CEO of a search engine, so I'm sure she has an alert set up to flag all new content that contains her name.

[dmc]

Just now, chocolatine said:

She's the CEO of a search engine, so I'm sure she has an alert set up to flag all new content that contains her name.

She absolutely must and reads them all.

And perhaps the biggest talent has the ability to retain the details and distinguish them from other pieces. 

 

[AzureOwl]

1 hour ago, dmc said:

But I thought it was odd that Nicole would read that kind of piece and know it offhand.  

I mean anyone would know if the NYTs wrote an article like that about them.  Some people would know if Politico did a similar article...by the time you get to the publications like the ones this woman would write for...where they just take bits and pieces of the NYT article and politico's...Nicole must be reading all press about herself to reference it like this.  

 

13 minutes ago, dmc said:

She absolutely must and reads them all.

And perhaps the biggest talent has the ability to retain the details and distinguish them from other pieces. 

Nicole seems very, very touchy about the implication that she only got the job because her company needed to improve their optics due to a "Me Too" situation.

Touchy enough to remember those articles in particular. 

[Bulldog]

5 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Mark is the one who's being controlling here.

How so?  We don't even know for certain that Mark paid for the suite. (Or if they specified that on the show, I missed it.)  Someone up thread speculated that might be the reason the family is in a suite that would seem to be beneath their means.  I was just responding to the notion that if Nicole is the one bringing in most of the income, then it should be her way or the highway.  That is exactly the Shane/Rachel dynamic on display.  And to be fair, we haven't heard Nicole complain about the size of the suite.  Maybe she booked the suite and she's tight with money.  I've known some very rich people who would squeeze the buffalo poop out of a nickel.  The only one who really seems to have a gripe about the sleeping arrangements is the son (with good reason).  Anyway, my point (and I do have one) is that if Mark paid for the (suitable, if not lavish) suite and Nicole had come in and said, "Nope, not good enough.  I'm paying for an upgrade and your opinion be damned;"  it would really be no different from Shane belittling Rachel's career choices and stating that he would pay for everything (including her salary) whether she wants it or not.  

Edited July 21, 2021 by Bulldog

[tennisgurl]

I clearly watch way too many fantasy shows, because I keep waiting for it to be revealed that Rachel is actually stuck in a time loop or that all of the guests died on the plane over and they're all in purgatory. This show does have a weird sort of dreamlike quality to it, I really have no idea where its going but I am so fascinated watching the journey. 

Shane is such an exhaustingly entitled prick, and what makes him even worse is that sometimes he isn't even totally wrong about some of the stuff he complains about. I cant blame him for wanting the room he (well, his mom) paid for and being annoyed that the hotel not only messed up his reservation but lied about it, or for not being thrilled about his new wife wanting to work over their honeymoon, but he is just so petty and obnoxious about every little thing, its hard to be understanding. Him complaining about not getting the room he wanted comes off less as him just wanting what his family paid for and more of a ridiculously spoiled asshole who has never not been given something he wanted and throws a fit if he doesn't get his way. Its rich of him to accuse Rachel of trying to "ruin" their honeymoon by writing an article when he has spent his whole trip ignoring his wife to whine about not getting his luxury suite and having to "settle" for a totally different but also amazing luxury suite. Then "paying" his wife to spend time with him on their honeymoon so she wont work? It comes off as insensitive at best and creepy at worst, it seems like he wants her to just be "his hot wife" and nothing else, even if her continuing her career is definitely the smart move. If the marriage doesn't work, she is going to want something to fall back on, even if its a career that she doesn't seem to be all that good at. If they really had a solid relationship she could be honest about wanting to still work, that she likes her job and her independence even if she doesn't need the money, even if she didn't want to get into her fears about the marriage not working right then, and Shane would respect her wishes, but I highly doubt that's going to happen. 

The Rachel/Nicole conversation went in totally different direction then the one I was expecting, I love it. I am definitely of the camp that the actual article was somewhere in the middle, between a harmless puff piece and a brutal slam piece, although Rachel admitting that she basically lifted her article from another story doesn't paint her in the best professional light. Rachel really might not have meant anything negative by making comments about Nicole "riding the wave of Me Too" and Nicole is being overly sensitive, or Nicole is understandably pissed off at being accused of stepping on other women's suffering to get to the top and Rachel wrote a malicious hackjob to get cheap clicks, but, again, its probably the middle, especially considering Rachel doesn't sound like the best journalist who puts a ton of thought into her work. I do wonder if Nicole saw a bit of truth in that article, which made her really sensitive to what was said. That maybe she got her job in the aftermath of some Me Too scandal and that she sometimes feels worried that she got the top job at her company for the optics, or that she did take advantage of a terrible situation to claw her way to the top, and while she tells herself that none of that is true, seeing it in print really hit a sore spot for her. Even if it really isn't true, I can imagine she heard people saying that she only became the CEO to fix the companies imagine problem or that she jumped in during a crisis to get ahead, and that she is very salty about those accusations. 

Working in customer service for a bunch of whiny neurotic rich people at a fancy resort cannot be an easy place to be a recovering addict. I was really hoping that Armond wouldn't go for the drugs, but I guessed pretty quickly that this was how the episode would end, the guy looked like he was about to collapse from exhaustion the whole episode. 

The last scene of the teenage son seeing the whale was really beautiful, with the music, the scenery, and his expression of awe when she saw the whale coming out of the water. He looked more genuinely happy than any guest at the hotel has so far, which I think is really interesting. In this luxurious glamourous place where everything is supposed to be mapped out perfectly, every event and experience planned out as part of the greater package, the best moment so far has been a spontaneous bit of real natural majesty peaking out behind the superficiality. 

[Bulldog]

44 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I clearly watch way too many fantasy shows, because I keep waiting for it to be revealed that Rachel is actually stuck in a time loop or that all of the guests died on the plane over and they're all in purgatory.

If a polar bear or a smoke monster shows up, all bets are off!

[dmc]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

I clearly watch way too many fantasy shows, because I keep waiting for it to be revealed that Rachel is actually stuck in a time loop or that all of the guests died on the plane over and they're all in purgatory. This show does have a weird sort of dreamlike quality to it, I really have no idea where its going but I am so fascinated watching the journey. 

 

I said the same, there is something twilight zone about this show.  I keep waiting for it to be magic island or purgatory

[chocolatine]

4 hours ago, Bulldog said:

How so?  We don't even know for certain that Mark paid for the suite. (Or if they specified that on the show, I missed it.)  Someone up thread speculated that might be the reason the family is in a suite that would seem to be beneath their means.  I was just responding to the notion that if Nicole is the one bringing in most of the income, then it should be her way or the highway.  That is exactly the Shane/Rachel dynamic on display.

I meant that *if* they're in that suite only because of Mark's ego and toxic masculinity, Nicole should have ignored him and paid for a place that's comfortable for everyone. I don't see that as the Shane/Rachel dynamic at all, but YMMV.

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Rachel really might not have meant anything negative by making comments about Nicole "riding the wave of Me Too" and Nicole is being overly sensitive, or Nicole is understandably pissed off at being accused of stepping on other women's suffering to get to the top and Rachel wrote a malicious hackjob to get cheap clicks

I'm 100% team Nicole in this matter. Nobody gets appointed as the CEO of a publicly traded, Fortune 50 company, without being scrupulously vetted by the board of directors, who have a fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders (i.e. they can't just hire someone based on optics). Whether she has or hasn't been a victim of harassment doesn't matter; she must have been at least as qualified as her male peers to get the job. To have a millennial snowflake whose only skill appears to be copying and pasting call her qualifications into question must be extremely insulting.

Edited July 22, 2021 by chocolatine

[Dewey Decimate]

On 7/19/2021 at 11:28 PM, Nellise said:

The music was doing an awful lot of heavy lifting to try to make this episode interesting. There were a bunch of jaunty "isn't this wacky" music cues for very mundane scenes.

Like some of the others, I guess I don't get this show because I've found it really boring. I'm pretty much hate watching from now on because all these people suck. None of them are interesting. I thought Rachel was going to be our way in to these lives, but she sucks too. I hate siding with Shane, but he's been pretty much right about everything even if he isn't doing things in the most elegant manner. Rachel said she hadn't worked for months before the honeymoon and decides on her honeymoon she's going to work? I think most partners would be annoyed at that regardless of their financial situation.

 

 

Oh my gravy, this is the exact language that came to mind watching the first two episodes. It seems that Mike White has taken on a slightly deity-like status is some places, but I dunno... the writing is good in some spots but then awkward in others, almost like those fridge haiku magnets but with terms that were popular a year or two ago. Fapping, stimming, ASMR... it's like checking off these boxes while tossing them in the word soup. The evocative music could practically carry the entire show with a few meaningful looks from the actors.

On 7/20/2021 at 2:08 PM, candle96 said:

Yeah, I think they're cluing us in to the fact that The White Lotus isn't quite as nice as they pretend to be. The room mixup, the lack of activities for the father and son, the one-bedroom suites (which, while certainly more expensive than I what could afford, don't actually look that amazing)

I didn't read up on the show before watching it and haven't heard anything about where it was filmed, but I find myself thinking, "huh, if this is what Hawaii is like, I don't feel like I'm missing out on much!" The architecture of the main building is pretty, but the limited activities suck, the rooms don't look all that fancy, and the breakfast buffet was less impressive than one you'd find on a discount vacation in the DR. A lovely vacation for the 99% but not the kind of place I'd expect any titan of industry to be slumming it. (And just to be clear, I'm most definitely among the 99%, lol!)

So few of the characters hold any redeeming qualities, I'm glad this show has a limited run. I'm mildly curious about the dead body, so smart on them for throwing out that nugget, lest viewers like me give up after an ep or two. The family's son and the masseuse/spa manager are the only two I thoroughly feel for. Even newlywed woman seems rather spineless and vapid - her aimless initial approach to Google woman was so awkward. Ball-cancer-scare dad thinks he might die soon but chooses to obsess about his nuts instead of spending (limited, or so he thinks) time with his son. And I know that these days we aren't supposed to comment on physical looks of our fellow human beings because everyone is beautiful and unique and brave, but since we had two characters point out in this ep how "beautiful" the daughter is.... um, I beg to differ. Not just a nasty little see ya next Tuesday inside, but a face that would not exactly launch a thousand ships. I'm afraid that part of my mild curiosity each week will be waiting particularly for her downfall.

The wallpaper during the opening credits is possibly my favorite part, along with the musical score.

Edited July 22, 2021 by Dewey Decimate
typo

[Cheezwiz]

1 hour ago, Dewey Decimate said:

The wallpaper during the opening credits is possibly my favorite part, along with the musical score.

As someone who is interested in pattern design, I have to agree, that the wallpaper featured in the opening credits is FANTASTIC! Looks like something designed for Farrow & Ball or Liberty of London or something. I guess I'm more intrigued by the show than a lot of other people seem to be - I'm also carrying lots of goodwill from having watched "Enlightened" which was a fantastic series.

[BingeyKohan]

Small point but I thought they established Nicole was CFO, not CEO. If she runs finances maybe that’s why she’s more conservative with spending and they opted for such (relatively) modest quarters.

[Nellise]

12 hours ago, BingeyKohan said:

Small point but I thought they established Nicole was CFO, not CEO. If she runs finances maybe that’s why she’s more conservative with spending and they opted for such (relatively) modest quarters.

I'm not sure why everyone thinks they have a small room. They have at least 2 rooms and a kitchen. That's really big for a resort hotel. Something like that in Hawaii is several thousand dollars a night at least.

Edited July 23, 2021 by Nellise

[chocolatine]

3 hours ago, Nellise said:

I'm not sure why everyone thinks they have a small room. They have at least 2 rooms and a kitchen. That's really big for a resort hotel. Something like that in Hawaii is several thousand dollars a night at least.

It's essentially a one-bedroom apartment, which is small for five people. The two girls are sharing a pull-out sofa, and the son was sleeping on a roll-away bed before his bitchy sister kicked him out. I'm assuming there's also only one bathroom for all five of them to share.

[aghst]

Maybe they filmed on a studio set.

You'd figure at a resort like that, they'd have a big terrace and lot of natural light coming in.

So it doesn't seem representative of what you'd find in real life?

[heatherchandler]

On 7/18/2021 at 11:31 PM, chocolatine said:

 

Finally, is it normal for teenage girls to carry around such a huge assortment of drugs these days? In my day (the '90s) we mostly stuck to pot and/or alcohol. Mixing so many different drugs seems very risky.

I think all people carry around a lot of pills.  My friends and I go out, and there is always someone with Adderall, someone with Xanax, etc.. And we are boring middle aged people.

Not a lot of "Special K" these days, although it is making a comeback apparently.
 

 

On 7/18/2021 at 11:38 PM, ShellsandCheese said:

Truthfully, I'm bored with Olivia and Paula. Not interesting at all. The actress who plays Paula is quite pretty but I don't think she or Sydney Sweeney (Olivia) are good actresses. I agree with the comments about the Mossbacher family, if Nicole is this huge CEO, why is her entire family + a family friend staying in a suite with just one bedroom? Make it make sense. I would also like to add that both Mossbacher parents are shitty for allowing their daughter to rule the roost and treat her brother the way she treats him. 

No, it's really not. But HBO is obsessed with shows about teens doing drugs and having lots of sex even though sex and drug use amongst teens has been steadily decreasing - and it was never that high in the first place.

Me too.  The weird lounging is boring.

 

 

On 7/19/2021 at 2:50 PM, questionfear said:

My mom and I were discussing this show when we spoke this AM, and she asked the same thing (about how they got that volume of drugs all the way to the vacation). I pointed out that we can handwave that the family had upgraded TSA checks and probably they tucked a lot of the drugs inside the prescription bottles. Also, TSA doesn't care about drugs unless you're smuggling like 5lbs of something, and it's totally believable that young and attractive women wouldn't get questioned about the water pipe. Technically it's not illegal to own it, just depends on what you smoke out of it. I didn't catch that they had water in it though-that is both impressive and unsanitary (who wants to inhale smoke that went through water that was chilling in your bag?? Ew.)

 

 

The prescriptions are allowed through, and the weed was probably packed in a suitcase and checked.  The water bong is the only thing I do not buy - either checked or carry-on.  It would be splashing all over.

 

 

On 7/20/2021 at 3:12 PM, chocolatine said:

The Four Seasons is a five-star resort; this one looks like four stars at best. The target clientele of a place like that would be the upper-middle class, not the 1%. The show wants us to believe that Nicole is the CEO of Google and Shane's family has old money and a lot of influence. People like that would choose much nicer accommodations. Unless there's something very special about the island that we haven't been shown yet, and the White Lotus is the only hotel there, I don't see what the draw is.

I have stayed at that Four Seasons and it definitely looks the same from the outside.  The inside is a little bit different, but it has the same feel.  I thought they kind of nailed the fancy hotel vibe.
 

 

[Shermie]

Quote

Quote

 think all people carry around a lot of pills.  My friends and I go out, and there is always someone with Adderall, someone with Xanax, etc.. And we are boring middle aged people.

 

That's just sad. I'm horrified how people on tv always seem to have xanax or whatever in their purse, like it's required for everyone to function. It must be an American thing, given all the drug ads on American tv and in magazines. When the girls pulled out all those bottles, I thought it was ridiculous that people that young already felt they needed that much artificial help.

I wonder if Rachel somehow gets ahold of the drug stash and intentionally o.d.'s, hence the body on the plane. Just speculation.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Shermie

[CarpeFelis]

On 7/18/2021 at 8:10 PM, Traveller519 said:

I don't know where we're going, yet, but I'm strangely engrossed by everyone's story.

I do wonder if we're going to get a Shane redemption of sort to come. He's the only one who's seemed devoid of positive traits thus far.

I can’t say I’ve seen even a single positive trait in Olivia, either. She’s a supercilious little brat who bullies her brother, openly criticizes her mother’s career (which is paying for her privileged ass), does way too many drugs, and judges and makes fun of strangers.

[CarpeFelis]

On 7/20/2021 at 8:53 PM, AzureOwl said:

Between her reactions to Paula flirting with the hotel employee and her reaction when Rachel disrobed during the first episode, I'm pretty sure Olivia is supposed to be a lesbian. 

The impression I got in the scene with Rachel was that Olivia suddenly stopped feeling superior to her, hence her “oh shit” reaction.

ETA: I laughed at Paula’s mispronunciation of Hecate when the parents walked in on them. Just one example of how these two girls, who think they’re sooooo superior to absolutely everyone, are actually clueless. Likewise the answer “sophomores” when they talked to Rachel at the pool seemed to be a little in-joke for the viewer since the word sophomoric really nails these two.

Edited July 26, 2021 by CarpeFelis
additional thought

[lisalionheart]

On 7/21/2021 at 12:20 PM, dmc said:

Agreed but when I read these articles I can always tell they are spliced together.  I mean it barely qualifies as writing. 

I think she wants to be a journalist.  I mean its possible that if she does enough of this kind of work, maybe it will lead something better.  I don't know, I don't know how a journalism career works.  

But I thought it was odd that Nicole would read that kind of piece and know it offhand.  

I mean anyone would know if the NYTs wrote an article like that about them.  Some people would know if Politico did a similar article...by the time you get to the publications like the ones this woman would write for...where they just take bits and pieces of the NYT article and politico's...Nicole must be reading all press about herself to reference it like this.  

 

I'm an editor and I think you are spot-on here. An aggregation piece would be read by the PR shop at a major tech company but would be pretty unlikely to make it in front of the CEO. The exception is if she is really aggressive about monitoring herself--or if it was a really voice-y, snarky piece that somehow went viral. But the headline suggests it wasn't the latter.

I don't look down on Rachel for her career. I know a few Rachels who are good people, who like to write and research but aren't really reporters, and who have a place in the digital media ecosystem. I wouldn't want the career but it's not bottom-feeding--it doesn't seem like she's spreading conspiracy theories or misinformation or something.

Also if a freelance writer I reached out to told me that she was on her honeymoon, I absolutely would not stop emailing her about writing unless she had said no to several potential assignments in a row already.

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, lisalionheart said:

Also if a freelance writer I reached out to told me that she was on her honeymoon, I absolutely would not stop emailing her about writing unless she had said no to several potential assignments in a row already.

She said something about not working for three months while preparing for the wedding, so it does sound like she'd already turned down several assignments in a row. Maybe the wording of the latest offer indicated that it was the last time that particular editor was going to consider her, so I can see why she was anxious.

As for working on her honeymoon, perhaps I don't understand because I'm not married, but are couples really supposed to spend every minute with each other? Is it really so bad if she takes 2-3 hours a day over a couple of days to write the piece while he reads a book, takes a nap, or works out at the hotel gym?

[Blackie]

On 7/19/2021 at 5:23 PM, peachmangosteen said:

I find this very dull and I guess I'm too stupid to see all these amazing nuances everyone else is seeing. Still, I'm gonna keep watching if only because I can not understand what the point of it is and I wanna know if there is one.

 

I'm with you. Mr Blackie is tapping out for sure, I might try one more.

I find the music super annoying and wonder if you are supposed to be high while watching this show?

[lucindabelle]

 I recently made a career change and will be starting full-time teaching in the fall, hooray! This summer I went away for a week And it was the first time in 10 years I went on vacation without taking Story with me.

 the fact that Rachel is only making a few hundred dollars for the story is a clue. That is the rate I was making at time out 10 years ago. She can’t be making much of a living on that. And if she was able to just not work for several months, then clearly she’s comfortable with somebody else supporting her. Which by the way, is it so very terrible? I was brought up by a mother who was supported by her husband and that was the norm when I was growing up. I get that a woman today wants to be independent, but a different financial 

Arrangement isn’t necessarily a warning bell. Though Shane has other red flags.

 

finally another clue that Rachael isn’t really so good at this is that she approached Nichole, to get advice, not to get a story,! She went up to her and instead of getting quickly to I love your work blah blah blah, might I have a sit down with you for a story on how you unwind or something like that, she just approached her to get advice on her own life. Now if she were doing that in order to create a connection and wait until she got to the moment of pitching the story fine, but it looked like she wasnt Even going to get to actually I’m a journalist until Nichole asked her.

This show has a very odd tone. I’m not quite sure whether I’m in or out. Some of it is played for broad laughs like the teenage son in the kitchen, and the kids in general. And it first I thought Jennifer Coolidge and her character were played for laughs but when she was getting vulnerable with Belinda I still felt you know this isn’t funny this is a joke. This isn’t like when Matt le Blanc’s  character threw the ashes of his father into the sea in EPISODES.

I can’t decide whether this unusual tone works for me or not. I think unbalance it does, because it’s so different.

I agree that Lanie did not look pregnant her frame was large. But Armand and the drugs were not played for laughs either. And the moment of awe with the whale was gorgeous. 

[wendyg]

I think it's reasonable that Rachel was swept up in the preparations for the wedding and is more worried about her career prospects now that she's getting a clearer, and less happy, picture of the life she's embarked upon. But also: speaking as a freelance myself, I might easily want to take the job even if it conflicted with my honeymoon. Every freelance I know is paranoid that the phone won't ring again if you say no. The money in ournalism in general for non-stars got a lot worse between 2001 and 2010, and has by and large not recovered. One of the journalists I know was my editor on a computer magazine in the 1990s. Circa mid-2000s they were working for the same company, but required to churn out 5-6 stories a day, mostly regurgitated press releases. Had a mortgage and kids and couldn't afford to take any risks. Does have a different job now doing more interesting writing for an independent outlet. The point being that every career has ups and downs.

Also speaking as someone used to financial independence, it is very, very hard to give that up.

I think it's fair to say that every freelance journalist has written things we're not proud of. For many starting out, yes, you take what you can get and hope to improve. Being established as someone they can call any time and get usable copy on time and to brief out of...is invaluable. And a "few hundred dollars" for a piece that will take a few hours really isn't such terrible pay!

Finally, I would not recommend hitting up a power-executive for an interview while on vacation. If I wanted to make a useful contact like that, I would look at it as an investment for the future. "Hi, remember we met at  White Lotus - you were there with your family, I was on my honeymoon, and you gave me some really great advice? I wondered if you'd be willing to help me with this story I'm working on..." So the hit on Rachel's skills is not that she didn't ask for an interview, but that *she didn't get her phone number and email address*. She could even have tried after she saw Nicole's reaction to the story. "Oh, my god, that's terrible. I never imagined you would see it that way. How about you give me your contact details and I'll call you in a few weeks when you're back at work and see how we can make this right?" She could easily go on to sell the piece about high-flying female execs whose rise to their positions is unfairly being tagged with preferential treatment because of MeToo/etc.

Circa 2007/2008, I played Werewolf at a tech conference with Jeff Bezos. I told him he was making a mistake to throw me out of the village as a suspected murderer. He did it anyway. I was not the murderer. He apologized. I asked if he was sorry enough to grant me an interview. No, he was not. :) (But I had still snuck in a question I was curious about earlier in the game while we were talking, though I never used the answer.)

 

Edited August 1, 2021 by wendyg

[eelpout]

On 7/19/2021 at 2:42 PM, peachmangosteen said:

Quote

ON 7/19/2021 AT 2:37 PM, IRLANDESA SAID:

That last shot was something else. 

That shot and the music was the best part of the ep.

I'll put in a plug for an acquaintance of mine and mention the Twin Cities (MN) group, The Rose Ensemble, for their album, "Nā Mele Hawai'i: A Rediscovery of Hawaiian Vocal Music" from which some of the choral pieces were used for the show. 🙂

 

 

Edited August 1, 2021 by eelpout

[PsychoDrone]

Putting the family in a one-bedroom suite is drama for drama's sake.  It's contrived and doesn't make sense.  I make way less money than a CFO and have been getting suites, with multiple bedrooms for my family, in hotels that are nowhere near as expensive as the one they're staying in.  Even when my boys were small, and we stayed in one room, they never slept in a pull-out sofa.

I don't know what it is, but for some reason it's a trend that girls/daughters on shows are way more insufferable than not.  It's tiresome to see.  Even the brother is a caricature.  The daughter on Ozark was like this, but she got better as the series went on.  Of course, we're supposed to hand-wave because she's rich and entitled, but still.  And, screw the friend.  Someone said it upthread, as a guest on this family's vacation, she needs to have a much better attitude.  Although, she probably tags along a lot, so figure she's acting like she normally acts.

I'm hoping this gets better or there is some kind of twist that will present itself.  As it stands now, it's contrived drama set pieces that aren't very believable.

[wendyg]

The two girls strike me as having escaped from original GOSSIP GIRL.

 

[EtheltoTillie]

On 7/18/2021 at 10:31 PM, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I loved the beginning with all the guests waking up in the morning happy as could be and all the employees showing up for work with "here we go with this shit again" faces.

The conversation between Nicole and Rachel was so good. The way it turned was so fantastic. I wonder if Rachel is oblivious to how she really wrote the article or if Nicole took it too seriously. Maybe a combo of both but you'd think Nicole would be used to criticism. Possibly it was just a chance for Nicole to talk back so she seized it even though for Rachel it was just a puff piece.

The way Rachel framed her problem as a "career" problem to Nicole seemed more like a marriage problem to me. I guess she's still in denial about the whole thing. I get why Shane would have an issue with Nicole working on an article on their honeymoon but the way he goes about trying to solve it, "he'll pay her double" is so clueless.

 A lot of obsession this episode. Mark was obsessed with not being diagnosed with cancer (and now looks like he'll get obsessed about his dad), Tanya was obsessed with Belinda, Shane was still obsessed with the room, Rachel was obsessed about the article and her career and Olivia was obsessed with her friend and the busboy. I wonder if she's jealous of her friend or the busboy. Or maybe she's insecure that a guy likes her friend and not her.

Armand! I was hoping he wouldn't take the drugs. Frankly as soon as he mentioned how much he wanted a drink I was sure he would fall off the wagon at some point. I just didn't realize it'd be so soon.

Great comment there’s so much going on in this show. It’s so well crafted. 

[rozen]

On 8/1/2021 at 10:11 PM, PsychoDrone said:

Putting the family in a one-bedroom suite is drama for drama's sake.  It's contrived and doesn't make sense.  I make way less money than a CFO and have been getting suites, with multiple bedrooms for my family, in hotels that are nowhere near as expensive as the one they're staying in.  Even when my boys were small, and we stayed in one room, they never slept in a pull-out sofa.

 

 

It makes sense if this is Connie Britton's character's (Tanya?) way for forced engagement with her family. If left to their own devices, neither of her children would see her face the entire vacation unless it was to moan or complain about some inconvenience they want her to drop everything to fix. She seems very into what families "ought" to do even if she herself is incapable of truly disconnecting and being present with her kids or husband.

[LuvMyShows]

On 7/21/2021 at 12:20 PM, dmc said:

But I thought it was odd that Nicole would read that kind of piece and know it offhand.  

I mean anyone would know if the NYTs wrote an article like that about them.  Some people would know if Politico did a similar article...by the time you get to the publications like the ones this woman would write for...where they just take bits and pieces of the NYT article and politico's...Nicole must be reading all press about herself to reference it like this.  

On 7/21/2021 at 1:35 PM, chocolatine said:

She's the CEO of a search engine, so I'm sure she has an alert set up to flag all new content that contains her name.

On 7/21/2021 at 1:37 PM, dmc said:

She absolutely must and reads them all.

And perhaps the biggest talent has the ability to retain the details and distinguish them from other pieces. 

On 7/21/2021 at 3:14 PM, AzureOwl said:

Nicole seems very, very touchy about the implication that she only got the job because her company needed to improve their optics due to a "Me Too" situation.

Touchy enough to remember those articles in particular. 

On 7/26/2021 at 7:50 PM, lisalionheart said:

I'm an editor and I think you are spot-on here. An aggregation piece would be read by the PR shop at a major tech company but would be pretty unlikely to make it in front of the CEO. The exception is if she is really aggressive about monitoring herself--or if it was a really voice-y, snarky piece that somehow went viral. But the headline suggests it wasn't the latter.

I think it was lazy writing by Mike White (since he wrote it all himself), and Nicole would never have read such a Top 10 clickbait "article", let alone remembered it, for the reasons people have given here.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Why does that Steve Zahn family not have more rooms and beds for their children?  Money?

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 7/22/2021 at 8:05 PM, Nellise said:

I'm not sure why everyone thinks they have a small room. They have at least 2 rooms and a kitchen. That's really big for a resort hotel. Something like that in Hawaii is several thousand dollars a night at least.

There are 3 teenagers that don't even have 1 bed between them.  The room situation is batshit.

Edited December 4, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay