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Season 23 Live Feeds Discussion

Lady Calypso

By Lady Calypso
in Past Seasons

statsgirl
Message added by statsgirl,

We understand that some hot button topics are coming up this season, such as with the Cookout. Reminder that it's ok to disagree but do NOT break our Be Civil rule. Keep your comments about the show, NOT about the people on this forum. If you can't disagree civilly and without talking about the posters, utilize the Ignore User function or scroll past their posts. And reminder that there is more to this season than the Cookout so if you feel like a conversation is going in circles, feel free to move on to something else. Going forward, unwillingness to adhere to these rules will result in warnings.

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Callaphera
Callaphera

Tiffany and Xavier, c3/4, around 9:50 PM BBT Tiffany: "I just hope that [clears her throat] I mean, I hope that we're doing the right thing but I don't know if we're playing the game right." Xa

Brian Cronin
Brian Cronin

They're simply not the same thing. Our entire society is built around systemic racism, to the point where no one in, say, the Brigade, actually thought of their group as being "White-only," because th

After7Only
After7Only

I’ve seen multiple excellent and nuanced posts explaining why the CO is not racist.   The only argument I’ve seen that they are racist is that the are all black.    Nothing else…no racist language use

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30 Helens

30 Helens

22 minutes ago, Nashville said:

I’m very proud of myself; I managed to watch for ONE WHOLE MINUTE.

I am so torn. I do NOT want to see Deref in the final 2, yet I very much want to watch him deliver his final speech to the jury and see the reaction he gets.

Also, what is up with his addiction to Q-tips. If he’s not asleep, he has a cotton swab jammed into his ear. Nobody has that much wax.

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LoveLeigh

LoveLeigh

Deref is just ridiculous. He complains to Xavier that Azah is not going to take him when Xavier is sitting there hoping Azah takes HIM! Why would he complain to his opponent about that and expect him to sympathize when he is competing with Deref for that spot if Azah wins final comp?

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30 Helens

30 Helens

Now on feeds: X listens as Deref vents his fury about Azah. He is angry because she told him she will have to choose X if she wins, because he deserves it the most. How could she do that after Deref carried her all this time! She never even went on the block because he put himself up instead! 

Deref shouts that he has always said X deserves it the most. After X, Kyland! Then Tiffany! THEN himself and Azah!! (Um, shouldn’t he be happy X is going either way, then?)

Azah is officially dead to him. He will not speak to her again before finale. If she ends up in jury, he does not want her vote. HE GREW UP IN THE HOOD! HE SCROUNGED PENNIES FOR FOOD! HE DESERVES THIS! 

X advises him to be calm, lest he exit in some Ky-style embarrassment. Other than that, it’s just a lot of “hmm” and “um hm” as Deref shouts about betrayal like he’s Julius Caesar or something. He does say that he knows about Deref’s financial situation and that’s why he is committed to taking him.

Please reconsider, X.

 

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30 Helens

30 Helens

Deref equates Azah’s betrayal to if he had chosen Ky instead of her for F3. I guess he’s forgotten that’s exactly what he intended to do until X told him not to.

The delusion and hypocrisy is staggering.

After X leaves, we enter the wallowing-in-self-pity stage. “Betrayed by a friend,” Deref whimpers to himself. 

9 minutes ago, Callaphera said:

Wait, Deref gave up his couch bed? It must be serious.

Azah’s been sleeping in that bed for about a week now. I’m surprised he didn’t just go shove her out of it and take it back.

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ByaNose

ByaNose

(edited)

Derek keeps saying he’s over it but then continues to go on & on & on about Azah. Personally, I’d love Azah to take him to the finals so I can hear what he will say to the jury. Some of them if not all might openly laugh hysterically. Even when he gets out of the house his enablers will just encourage his delusional ass even further. His hissy fit moving his belongings out of the room was hysterical. Poor Baby D!

Edited by ByaNose
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30 Helens

30 Helens

X went to see Azah and she told him her side, in an unsurprisingly thoughtful and non confrontational way. She never told Deref she was definitely not taking him, she just said she was considering X because she feels he has done the most to advance the CO and deserves to be in the finals. Above all, she wants to make a decision she will be comfortable with in 5 years. 

Ironically, Deref seems to have prompted this train of thought by telling her she was undeserving and not a good final representative for the alliance.

X seems to have more sympathy for her, at least she’s getting more than the “mm”s that Deref got. He understands that Deref only sees the perspective that benefits him. He doesn’t understand why people want power in this game; he never got any satisfaction out of ending people home. Except for Ky. And Brent. He doesn’t see himself ever wanting to play again; he doesn’t even know if he will watch the season back. 

She asks what Deref said, and X summarizes that Deref was upset and felt played. That seems to make her sad. X notes the contradictions in Deref’s arguments. “It’s hard to say you’re carrying someone and then expect them to carry you.”

 

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30 Helens

30 Helens

Other things Deref said to Azah: 
- said she was “clouded” by X and his cuddles 
- accused her of going for a showmance 
- called her Nicole F  (now, that is uncalled for)

X and Azah finally go to sleep while Deref pouts in the cross room all alone.

I have no illusions that X will change his mind and take Azah, but he really seems to have a stronger, more comfortable relationship with her. Sure, some of it is game, but I actually thinks he respects her more.

Despite my desire to see Deref’s final speech, I really hope Azah wins and takes X. Teach that giant baby a lesson. If she wins and takes Deref because he yelled and pouted, that will be all kinds of wrong.

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30 Helens

30 Helens

11 hours ago, Callaphera said:

I'm just annoyed with text voting because I can't - I don't think VPNs work for texting.

I go through so many hoops to give CBS my fun, coloured money and now they won't even let me toss a couple votes Tiffany's way. What do they have against Canada? Did a moose hurt them? Maple syrup bias? I dunno. (I do know, I just haven't had anything to bitch about re: Big Brother in the past week.)

Well, I never vote and wasn’t planning to, but I cast two votes for Tiffany in your honor. I just hate anti-Canadianism.

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PhoneCop

PhoneCop

3 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

I am so torn. I do NOT want to see Deref in the final 2, yet I very much want to watch him deliver his final speech to the jury and see the reaction he gets.

Also, what is up with his addiction to Q-tips. If he’s not asleep, he has a cotton swab jammed into his ear. Nobody has that much wax.

I know, it's unexpectedly difficult to know what I want right now. Zero Wins Manbaby needs a hard lesson in STFU, but watching Azah Cody herself won't be fun either. Plus I really want to hear Derek's speech...

So if X really does throw the final comp to Azah, could that cost him any votes? It'd be hilarious if she ended up edging him out because of that.

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blixie

blixie

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Then Tiffany! THEN himself and Azah!

He admitted Tiffany is better than him. Finally a shred self awareness. 

 

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he doesn’t even know if he will watch the season back. 

Coward. You don't want to know how much you exploited black women to win? Hmm.

This reminds me in post show press no one ask Tiffany about R. Kelly.

 

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but watching Azah Cody herself won't be fun either.

This is truly the worst final three game players I have seen in my entire time watching BB.  I just wish the jury had perfect info like we do, and could see X showing his ass AND seeing how little he actually did to get where he is. I'm still not clear if they get to watch the season before Jury Debate? I think I'm still rooting for the least likely option: Azah takes X and she still wins because YES the women actually do just decide to vote for the women regardless of her play. LOL. ::pray emoji::

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peachmangosteen

peachmangosteen

7 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

Azah’s been sleeping in that bed for about a week now. I’m surprised he didn’t just go shove her out of it and take it back.

Ah, now I see why Deref has been so mad at Azah this week.

7 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

Above all, she wants to make a decision she will be comfortable with in 5 years. 

Well, in 5 years you can either have $750,000 or nothing. Come on now, girl!

57 minutes ago, blixie said:

I'm still not clear if they get to watch the season before Jury Debate?

They don't get to see anything but the tapes of the comps and ceremonies that each evicted HGs brings. I really miss when they used to have the F2 questioned by the jury days before the finale. It lasted much longer and the jury was allowed to ask actual questions they had and not the Production supplied shit.

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I think I'm still rooting for the least likely option: Azah takes X and she still wins because YES the women actually do just decide to vote for the women regardless of her play. LOL. ::pray emoji::

I would live for this. X losing to Azah would probably rank 3rd after Paul losing twice in my fave BB finale outcomes. No chance of it though, sadly. Tiffany doesn't like Azah enough to push for it. If she did though, it could be possible.

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Never Again

Never Again

I never bought into the thought that X was an amazing player, and I didn’t like his arrogance, then I liked him when Ky made those horrible comments when evicted; X held his temper but took no shit, and now I don’t like him again because he’s so clearly playing Azah.  I mean I do believe you do what you have to do to win,  as long as it’s legal, but playing on the emotions of a woman who told you like week 1 that she had a crush on you just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.  These people will be seeing each other for years at BB events and many become friends.  He should not toy with her because she has real emotions towards him and he repelled them until final 3.  Bad look, X

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ByaNose

ByaNose

What’s so wrong about a the jury of woman just voting for a woman to win just because she’s a woman?!?! The men have been doing it for years. Use every advantage you can get Azah. It might not be PC but PC doesn’t always get (win) you $750,000. 

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30 Helens

30 Helens

1 hour ago, Never Again said:

X held his temper but took no shit, and now I don’t like him again because he’s so clearly playing Azah.

I don’t see him as playing Azah. Or more precisely, I don’t think she’s being played. That implies she is somehow under X’s spell and has no independent reason for her decisions.

Azah has said for a long time that she doesn’t really care about winning. I’m not sure why she wanted to play, but I think she just wanted the experience. That means she doesn’t always act in her best interest, which can be frustrating as a viewer, but it seems more important to her to follow her principles. This also makes her stubborn and resistant to manipulation. (Tiffany couldn’t budge her, either.)

Nothing I’ve seen indicates she has any illusions about a relationship between her and X, other than friendship. Or that he has led her on. I really think she is doing what she feels is right. In a previous post, I called her stupid for wanting to take X, but that’s because I was thinking from the perspective of someone who wants to win. That’s just not her perspective, or her main goal.

I still want her to win, though.

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Alice Mudgarden

Alice Mudgarden

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(edited)

I think the really fascinating social aspect to Big Brother - at least, BB from a certain point on - is how the players may change, what they say motivates them may change, but in the end... the same stuff always winds up occurring.

There will never not be that lazy, out of touch player with delusions of grandeur that think their sheer brilliance is why they're sitting at F2 or F3 and that they deserve to be where they are, and to win the money.

There will never not be that player whose "charisma" and "strategy" are touted as being far greater than they actually are, almost inexplicably making them a lock to win from early on, with no one bothering to change that.

And there will never not be the woman who will fall on the sword for her male ally, because doing so is somehow tethered to her character and deemed more important than winning the game she supposedly went there to play. Sadder still, there will never be a time where the reverse happens.

I don't watch Big Brother (well... at all anymore, apparently) to get heavy with shit. I know, I know, it happens, things play out, they mirror societal norms and issues and bleep bloop bleep. I get that, but it's also a stupid game with a robot throwing out lame insults and a character that can sometimes be a talking clam who sings showtunes. I've said it before, but BB is my television empty calories.

Interestingly, in a season where the focus was put on race, I'm walking away seeing a spotlight more on gender issues. I never doubted black people being able to team up, play the game and win; the show is why that never happened until now, not them. Women, though? I have serious doubts.

Personally, I think people should pair up with the players they work best with. If they're the same race/gender/sexual orientation/political party/etc. or not, it's cool. We like who we like, we jibe with who we jibe with. It's about people, not labels. And yet, it's hard not to notice labels when it comes to men and women with regards to gameplay.

Azah is a beautiful woman and, as best I can tell, good person. Still, here she is, about to potentially make a ridiculous game move for a man who would not, will not, and come this time the day after the finale, did not do the same for her. Why? I'd chalk it up to differences in personality, priorities, whatever, but it sure does seem like those differences always fall on gender lines, doesn't it? It makes me kind of sad. 

I don't know; I barfed out all of this knowing it won't really mean much and not looking to start some sort of existential debate on the differences between men and women as it pertains to stupid, silly Big Brother, but I barfed it out all the same. I guess I needed to say it, and you all are just subject to this droning soliloquy of meandering thought.

YOU'RE WELCOME OR WHATEVER.

Edited by Alice Mudgarden
editing my silliness
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perfectstorm

perfectstorm

5 hours ago, blixie said:

Azah takes X and she still wins because YES the women actually do just decide to vote for the women regardless of her play. LOL. ::pray emoji::

The math works against her. Azah will get Ky's and Britini's votes.

Alyssa will vote for X.  Tiffany has said she wants X to win.  Hannah was not happy with how things went with Azah evicting her. 

We all know Big D won't vote for her.  And X has not given any reason why DX, Claire, SB would vote against him.

 

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choclatechip45

choclatechip45

I don't like X but I don't think he is playing Azah. I don't think he has lead her on to think something will happen after the show romantically. I think the problem is that Big D has been a dick to Azah for weeks now and since she doesn't care about winning she doesn't want to give him the second place money. 

Azah has been super frustrating because she isn't a self interested player. 

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tinkerbell

tinkerbell

39 minutes ago, Alice Mudgarden said:

And there will never not be the woman who will fall on the sword for her male ally, because doing so is somehow tethered to her character and deemed more important than winning the game she supposedly went there to play. Sadder still, there will never not be a time where the reverse happens

Loved your post - but the bolded part confused me. I think you didn't mean to put in the "not".

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Melina22

Melina22

27 minutes ago, Alice Mudgarden said:

Sadder still, there will never not be a time where the reverse happens.

I do recall one time this did happen, with Colby and Tina. Mind you it was Survivor and not BB. So yes, you're correct. 😁

30 minutes ago, Alice Mudgarden said:

I think the really fascinating social aspect to Big Brother - at least, BB from a certain point on - is how the players may change, what they say motivates them may change, but in the end... the same stuff always winds up occurring.

I agree with you that we keep seeing these things, but this is why I find BB so fascinating. It holds a mirror to society as it is, not as we wish it were. Women do tend to be disadvantaged in the game for all the reasons you mention, but it's not just in BB, it's how it is in our society. I'd hate to see BB so manipulated by TPTB that we only see a sanitized, perfectly fair representation of reality. 

As much as I hated to see the Camp Comeback season, for example, I thought it was extremely eye-opening for those of us who have never faced that particular kind of prejudice or bullying, to see firsthand how cruel it is. I don't ever need to see it again, and I welcome the increased diversity, but I'm sure many viewers will always remember it. 

I'm not sure how they can even the playing field for the women in BB though. To say it's complicated is an understatement. 

None of what I've said applies to Azah though, because as 30 Helens pointed out, she's playing exactly the game she wants to play, and I think she'll be at peace with whatever happens. I think we should respect her enough to accept that. 

 

 

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blixie

blixie

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Azah is a beautiful woman and, as best I can tell, good person. Still, here she is, about to potentially make a ridiculous game move for a man who would not, will not, and come this time the day after the finale, did not do the same for her. Why? I'd chalk it up to differences in personality, priorities, whatever, but it sure does seem like those differences always fall on gender lines, doesn't it? It makes me kind of sad. 

Yeah I agree, I get saying she doesn't care about the money and only cares about her principles and I'm not judging her game play based on that, but what does it say about her principles that she wants to lose to a hot man she's into rather than beat another black woman be it one she likes (Tiffany) or one she doesn't (Hannah) or the gay man who was until five minute ago her best friend why is reneging on an agreement with Derek "principled" she said she'd take him but it wasn't a "deal"? She thinks X deserves this more than Tiffany? She spent a couple of hours explaining to him all that Tiffany did to get the final three to where they are and told her she was stupid Tiff was terrible at BB? WHY DOES X "deserve" it more than TIFFANY!!!!

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Jess14

Jess14

2 hours ago, ByaNose said:

What’s so wrong about a the jury of woman just voting for a woman to win just because she’s a woman?!?! The men have been doing it for years. Use every advantage you can get Azah. It might not be PC but PC doesn’t always get (win) you $750,000. 

I agree, but I feel like this would be a better argument for a woman who didn’t send the other last woman out of the house on her HOH, which was the only time Azah had power. Some of the women jurors may still vote for her regardless because they just want to see a woman win. However, I think it’s a difficult argument for Azah herself to make, as her own actions show she didn’t care that much about a woman winning. 

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blixie

blixie

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I think it’s a difficult argument for Azah herself to make,

No one said she should? She does though need to point out all the ways the men exploited Hannah/Tiffany and the CO to get where they are only to cut them the first chance they got and that they have spent every day since talking crap about how they did NOTHING. I think she just needs to speak to the fact that X did very little as well and do you want to vote for a player who did little and disrespects you, or a player who did little and respected you even after she cut you? For the non CO's she can be can make her play about never making a promise to any of them she couldn't keep.

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Jess14

Jess14

2 minutes ago, blixie said:

No one said she should? She does though need to point out all the ways the men exploited Hannah/Tiffany and the CO to get where they are only to cut them the first chance they got and that they have spent every day since talking crap about how they did NOTHING. I think she just needs to speak to the fact that X did very little as well and do you want to vote for a player who did little and disrespects you, or a player who did little and respected you even after she cut you? For the non CO's she can be can make her play about never making a promise to any of them she couldn't keep.

I thought the “use every advantage you can get Azah” was stating that she should make the argument about woman being the winner, but perhaps I misread that. I agree though that she should make any argument that she can to the jury, including talking about X downplayed what Tiffany and Hannah did. 

In general though, I’m pretty apathetic about this Final 3 other than Deref, who I don’t want to get a cent. I think X is way overrated, and I think Azah has done very little. In most cases where I don’t care much for any of the 3, I would root hard for the women, but Azah very much strikes me as someone who would not do the same in reverse, but would always come up with a reason to go for the “sexy” man. I could be wrong on that, but that’s just how she comes off to me.

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CrazyDog

CrazyDog

7 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Well, in 5 years you can either have $750,000 or nothing. Come on now, girl!

I swear, the whole idea of not caring about a win is just so bizarre to me. Especially in this day and age, how is that kind of money not absolutely life changing, unless one is already wealthy?

People will always have their lines that they will be willing to cross or not cross to win a game like this, and it sounds like she views X as a more "worthy" winner, but to honestly be so bland about winning when she's so close is just...odd.  She can walk away having been part of BB history, but she would also make history by winning. 

But I'm fine with Deref getting nothing as well, so that works, I guess.

For 750K, I'd be leaving tread marks from my sneakers on X's back to get to the F2, lol.

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kassandra8286

kassandra8286

(edited)
13 minutes ago, CrazyDog said:

I swear, the whole idea of not caring about a win is just so bizarre to me. Especially in this day and age, how is that kind of money not absolutely life changing, unless one is already wealthy?

If she doesn't care about winning for herself, what about her parents? I thought she wanted to buy them a house? Why is X's nephew more important than her parents?

She may now be saying that X is more worthy, etc,  but she until the last day or so she absolutely would have cut him and taken Derek F. Even though he's been a shit to her for awhile now, it wasn't until the last couple of days when he started relentlessly going at her, telling her how unworthy she is and how he carried her, and trying to shame her for cuddling with X until she finally had enough. Prior to that she kept asking him to stop talking game and just chill but he wouldn't stop. He has single-handedly blown up his game and robbed himself of 2nd place if she wins the final HOH. What a blithering idiot. 

Edited by kassandra8286
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30 Helens

30 Helens

3 hours ago, Melina22 said:

 

3 hours ago, Alice Mudgarden said:

Sadder still, there will never not be a time where the reverse happens.

I do recall one time this did happen, with Colby and Tina. Mind you it was Survivor and not BB. So yes, you're correct. 😁

 

Didn’t Austin put Liz above game, or am I misremembering?

But either way, I agree, it’s distressingly rare.

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30 Helens

30 Helens

3 hours ago, Melina22 said:

I'm not sure how they can even the playing field for the women in BB though. To say it's complicated is an understatement. 

The women had a distinct advantage going into the jury phase, enough that I kind of wish the CO had blown up at that stage so the women could work together. As long as Tiffany became the winner, and still made history. And Deref was the first juror.

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peachmangosteen

peachmangosteen

1 hour ago, blixie said:

No one said she should? She does though need to point out all the ways the men exploited Hannah/Tiffany and the CO to get where they are only to cut them the first chance they got and that they have spent every day since talking crap about how they did NOTHING. I think she just needs to speak to the fact that X did very little as well and do you want to vote for a player who did little and disrespects you, or a player who did little and respected you even after she cut you? For the non CO's she can be can make her play about never making a promise to any of them she couldn't keep.

And she won't do any of this. Because she thinks a man who did barely more than her is more worthy of winning. It's actually really sad lol.

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Callaphera

Callaphera

13 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

Well, I never vote and wasn’t planning to, but I cast two votes for Tiffany in your honor. I just hate anti-Canadianism.

Thanks! That's about as much as I ever remember to most seasons because then I remember that I think it's kinda useless unless we're sticking it to someone. So basically I voted during BB16 to fuck Frankie at every turn and again to make sure that none of Paul's Cult won on BB19 and then if I remember to vote twice during anything else, it's a miracle.

Well, okay, there were a few particularly heinous combinations for Have Nots that I would power vote for because I like to watch them in pain. <3 those tripe weeks.

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Alice Mudgarden

Alice Mudgarden

4 hours ago, Melina22 said:

None of what I've said applies to Azah though, because as 30 Helens pointed out, she's playing exactly the game she wants to play, and I think she'll be at peace with whatever happens. I think we should respect her enough to accept that. 

I don't want to take away Azah's agency, but then I have to ask why her agency is that way (like so many other women, it would seem) but none of the men seem to worry about such things. It's a curious thing to me, and something I don't think gets discussed in proportion to how often it happens.

There's a difference between "if I lose and it's to X, I'll be fine with that" and "I will consciously make a decision to lose for this other person who would never reciprocate in kind", and one is definitely shooting your own foot in the home stretch for a reason I don't totally comprehend as it pertains to playing a game.

I guess I want people who want to play to win to be in the game, and I want there to be an equal number of men and women like that. Maybe that's what I'm really asking for.

I'm also kind of tired, so who knows. I could come back later and read this and it could come across like I spoke in elvish.

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Callaphera

Callaphera

6 minutes ago, Alice Mudgarden said:

I don't remember that, so it's very possible, but I do wish Austin put on shoes as he got evicted.

Every now and then, someone I know who is super into wrestling will send me a clip of Austin in the ring (he's bad and slow and he cosplays as a dinosaur, that's all you really need to know) and all I can ever think when I see it is "Well, at least he's not barefoot". I hope he actually showers now instead of pretending - no reason to make the locker room even funkier than it probably already is.

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Alice Mudgarden

Alice Mudgarden

13 minutes ago, Callaphera said:

Every now and then, someone I know who is super into wrestling will send me a clip of Austin in the ring (he's bad and slow and he cosplays as a dinosaur, that's all you really need to know) and all I can ever think when I see it is "Well, at least he's not barefoot". I hope he actually showers now instead of pretending - no reason to make the locker room even funkier than it probably already is.

I don't know much about his wrestling career but I believe he teams up with Luke Perry's son, and I sort of love everything about that.

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kassandra8286

kassandra8286

8 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:
37 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I just posted the jury messages from home vid in media. There's also a short jury house tour on Instagram. All I'm gonna say is, I knew Claire/Derex would fuck in jury lol.

They hooked up? Yay! I was shipping them!

Watch the video, lol. They're practically doing it right there on the couch! 

Loved those but I wanna see the rest. 

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ByaNose

ByaNose

2 hours ago, Jess14 said:

I agree, but I feel like this would be a better argument for a woman who didn’t send the other last woman out of the house on her HOH, which was the only time Azah had power. Some of the women jurors may still vote for her regardless because they just want to see a woman win. However, I think it’s a difficult argument for Azah herself to make, as her own actions show she didn’t care that much about a woman winning. 

Point well taken. I did forget that point. She should have saved Hannah but I think she wanted to be the last woman standing. It seems most of the cast was into good game play which Azah $ Big D didn’t have. 

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blixie

blixie

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but none of the men seem to worry about such things.

I do think there are men who have more or less sacrificed their games to a  girl/showmance, Christian this season, both he and Alyssa would have been better players without the schmoop/intense attraction. One could argue Jeff/Jordan and Rob and Amber for sure and whoever Jun's trash ex was. Jee! And to some extent Austin/Liz.

But that is very different than what Azah is doing here and I'm still not convinced that she isn't doing it because she is hot for him and likes him in whatever way, regardless of reciprocation. What she is saying "X is the most deserving overall!' is something not even she believes, but she WANTS him to win and she WANTS to be gazing adoringly upon him while he wins, to make herself feel better about that being the REAL motivation she's spewing this deserves nonsense. This genuflecting is what I am just really baffled by, but I absolutely understand it as identifiable human behavior. But deserves? STOP IT.

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