Gymnastics

[scarynikki12]

Wow did Tim explain the Twisties terribly and not at all in the same way that everyone else has. Now I’m wondering if he even knows what they are.

And, again, Nastia is SITTING RIGHT THERE. She’s competed more recently than Tim, she’s actually competed on the balance beam, she’s won a hell of a lot more medals than him, she was an infinitely better gymnast, and she did much more twisting in her routines. So, of course, she has to shut up and let him not explain to the viewers.

[Conotocarious]

4 minutes ago, Blue hues said:

I don’t see anything “bitchy” in their interactions.  What am I missing?  How do we know Nastia called Memel fat?  When and where did that happen, or is it just lore?

I’m not sure we can really know but its a definitely a thing that was a rumor because I googled it and stuff came up from several gymnastics blogs.

eta: it was apparently after Memmel edged Liukin in a world championship.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Conotocarious

[Lady Whistleup]

Ok why can't the US gymnasts make their balance beam leaps as pretty as the Chinese girls?

[scarynikki12]

NBC don’t tell us Simone will compete third and then show only one gymnast before she goes up. We have memories and can count so we know you skipped someone who worked hard and deserved our attention.

[choclatechip45]

9 minutes ago, Blue hues said:

I don’t see anything “bitchy” in their interactions.  What am I missing?  How do we know Nastia called Memel fat?  When and where did that happen, or is it just lore?

I think it's gossip, but Lynn Raisman did confirm on twitter that Nastia fat shamed Aly during the tour in 2012. 

[Lady Whistleup]

2 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

I think it's gossip, but Lynn Raisman did confirm on twitter that Nastia fat shamed Aly during the tour in 2012. 

Aly also unfollowed Nastia on Twitter and Instagram. 

[scarynikki12]

Simone’s family is adorable.

 I’m so proud of her. She’s been USA Gymnastics Cheerleader #2 (Hoda is #1) and genuinely happy for the success of her teammates and I’m so happy she got to end the games this way.

Jordan in tears and all the joy from everyone else at her getting to compete was wonderful.

[irisheyes]

Finally got to see Simone (Thanks for nothing, NBC), but if that’s her last routine as a competitive gymnast, it was fabulous. And, I might have teared up a bit. (Just like Jordan!)
 

Great save by Suni!!!

[Conotocarious]

12 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

I think it's gossip, but Lynn Raisman did confirm on twitter that Nastia fat shamed Aly during the tour in 2012. 

Oh I am NOT HERE for that. How awful and how UTTERLY untrue.

[choclatechip45]

12 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Aly also unfollowed Nastia on Twitter and Instagram. 

I think that was around the time of the Nassar trial because Nastia was posting things about how strong her family is. 

[tanyak]

Did Simone take out a double wolf turn? I think she usually does that after the triple. Or I could be confusing her with the hundred other girls doing Wolf turns. Lol

[Conotocarious]

Just now, choclatechip45 said:

I think that was around the time of the Nassar trial because Nastia was posting things about how strong her family is. 

Well, team Aly over here. There is just no excuse for such nastiness.

Just now, tanyak said:

Did Simone take out a double wolf turn? I think she usually does that after the triple. Or I could be confusing her with the hundred other girls doing Wolf turns. Lol

No, Simone just does a triple. Her beam routine itself wasn’t changed at all, just the dismount. Spencer from Gymcastic was talking yesterday about all the changes she could/should make in her routine to make up for her lower D score and I was just laughing and telling my husband she wouldn’t change a thing except the dismount. 

[scarynikki12]

So NBC is showing every beam routine but 1? Did Ellie Black kick someone’s puppy? 

[choclatechip45]

2 minutes ago, Conotocarious said:

Well, team Aly over here. There is just no excuse for such nastiness.

I was Team Shawn back in the day! But always Team Aly! I've never been a fan of Nastia. 

[blackwing]

26 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

NBC don’t tell us Simone will compete third and then show only one gymnast before she goes up. We have memories and can count so we know you skipped someone who worked hard and deserved our attention.

Screw you Nothing But Countrymen!  I was looking forward to seeing the Canadian’s 4th place on the beam, and yet they chose to skip her.  Why?  It can’t be because of time.  Because they showed the Russian girl and the Brazilian girl.  Why did those two lower scoring routines get shown and not Ellie Black?  Is it because they biffed and almost fell off?

I’m used to NBC not showing anyone but Americans and medalists, but this is ridiculous.  You’d think they’d want to show a Canadian.  Maybe NBC is still salty about the women’s soccer loss...

Edited August 4, 2021 by blackwing

[scarynikki12]

Even with the errors Guan’s routine is gorgeous so her win is dead on. 

[KaveDweller]

31 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

NBC don’t tell us Simone will compete third and then show only one gymnast before she goes up. We have memories and can count so we know you skipped someone who worked hard and deserved our attention.

They also went to a commercial saying "4 gymnasts left to go" and then came back saying "3 gymnasts left to go."

I get if they don't have time to show everyone, but don't be so obvious about telling us.

[Lady Whistleup]

Guan's form is to die for. Even her balance checks are so pretty.

[Thumper]

I don’t know much about gymnastics, but I sure appreciated the artistry and lovely moves by Guam.  Plus the rest!  The commentator on video I watched (linked on this thread) mentioned her being “on her toes” at times.

Happy for and proud of Simone!  Very poised in her comments.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Thumper

[Conotocarious]

Jordan Chiles crying is just so pure.

 

[Quilt Fairy]

16 minutes ago, tanyak said:

Did Simone take out a double wolf turn? I think she usually does that after the triple. Or I could be confusing her with the hundred other girls doing Wolf turns. Lol

I thought she left one out, too. 

[tanyak]

What a wonderful interview. I’ve always thought that in her interviews after competitions, Simone, while sounding nice, can speak rather quickly and somewhat on script. That one seemed really heartfelt and emotional. I’m so happy for her. 

[blackwing]

8 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Guan's form is to die for. Even her balance checks are so pretty.

Agreed.  I can’t stand those hand flairs everyone does, but at least hers are toned down and look way better.

[Conotocarious]

13 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

I was Team Shawn back in the day! But always Team Aly! I've never been a fan of Nastia. 

I would say the 2008 quad was when my gymnastics interest was really not what it had been in 92-96 and what it became in the 2012 quad and beyond so I knew some stuff but I wasn’t totally absorbed. I did not really warm up to Nastia (I preferred Shawn’s tumbling but mostly I preferred her coach’s attitude about athletes). She may be different now but I really have no time or patience for fat-shamers in any capacity but particularly when it isn’t even true. 

[choclatechip45]

9 minutes ago, Conotocarious said:

I would say the 2008 quad was when my gymnastics interest was really not what it had been in 92-96 and what it became in the 2012 quad and beyond so I knew some stuff but I wasn’t totally absorbed. I did not really warm up to Nastia (I preferred Shawn’s tumbling but mostly I preferred her coach’s attitude about athletes). She may be different now but I really have no time or patience for fat-shamers in any capacity but particularly when it isn’t even true. 

I preferred Shawn's gymnastics to Nastia. I really did not like Nastia's whole comeback announcing it at Worlds in 2011. Also, Nastia and Alicia always gave me major mean girl vibes and I don't think either has changed that much. I agree when Lynn Raisman confirmed it I just had no patience for Nastia anymore. Anyone who thinks Aly is fat is absolutely insane. 

[Jeddah]

4 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Also, males absolutely do have that side to them as well. I recently saw an interview with Scottie Pippen and I was shocked at how bitter and catty he sounded. Mean comments flying out of his mouth about so many people

Of course men do this too. That’s my point. But when people talk about Scottie Pippen, they talk about basketball and his NBA Championships. They don’t call him a bitch, talk about what he wears, who he follows on Instagram, or what his competitor’s mother said on Twitter about him. Nastia has five Olympic medals and has made a career out of commentating, and people are calling her a bitch for something that is rumored to have happened 16 years ago when she was 16.

[HartofDixie]

4 hours ago, Steph619 said:

My favorite part of these Olympics in regards to gymnastics was seeing the gymnasts getting along. They were obviously after the same goal, but they still encouraged each other and seemed to be very friendly. I loved seeing that not just on the US team, but also amongst the different countries.

The 2008 US team definitely had a lot of drama. I loved Shawn Johnson back then and she still remains one of my favorite gymnasts of all time along with Dominique Moceanu. There were a lot of stories about Shawn being treated like an outsider even though they all get along now.

2008 reunion

 

[emma675]

Guan's form and beam routine was just beautiful. But her little legs looked so banged up; I hope all of these gymnasts get to relax and recover over the next few weeks. 

Simone looked so happy and relieved and relaxed. Whatever she chooses to do next, I hope she's at peace with it. She has nothing to prove to anyone. 

[HartofDixie]

Simone’s beam

https://youtu.be/W2ZkQ-_NE9c

[SunnyBeBe]

In an interview tonight Simone says that it’s more difficult to be a female athlete and that so many people want you to fail……I’m trying to figure out why she thinks that.  I thought that most people want her and the other female Olympian’s to be successful, healthy, safe, etc.   That’s really sad if she feels that way.  It’s as if she really isn’t very happy and doesn’t feel it’s a good place to be, though she said she would continue in the sport. 

[Conotocarious]

Just watched Simone’s interview on NBC and she said she didn’t mind being the face of the Games or anything like that but she did feel a bit stressed at being the “glue” that holds the team together because she felt that if she had a bad practice, everyone did or if her attitude wasn’t right, it brought down everyone. From that perspective it is easy to see why she felt that her messing up in the team finals was going to cost them a medal. 

She also said the twisties did truly randomly come on. It first happened during one of her floor passes and then again the day after prelims.

[KaveDweller]

1 minute ago, Conotocarious said:

Just watched Simone’s interview on NBC and she said she didn’t mind being the face of the Games or anything like that but she did feel a bit stressed at being the “glue” that holds the team together because she felt that if she had a bad practice, everyone did or if her attitude wasn’t right, it brought down everyone. From that perspective it is easy to see why she felt that her messing up in the team finals was going to cost them a medal. 

She also said the twisties did truly randomly come on. It first happened during one of her floor passes and then again the day after prelims.

I thought it was a good interview. But if the twisties really just randomly happen, then the conversation about it being a mental health issue and all the pressure doesn't seem to apply. It seems like the stress brought it on. But she doesn't need to tell us all the details if she doesn't want to.

[Lady Whistleup]

I think Simone is hesitant to over-emphasize the "twisties" because that's such an acro-specific problem. I think she realized that while she had the twisties, the anxiety, pressure, and self-doubt can overcome so many elite athletes and she also should speak for them. 

[CeeBeeGee]

15 hours ago, Jeddah said:

I’m still bitter about the AA tie breaker in 2012. Aly Raisman should have 7 medals too!

YES.

14 hours ago, Steph619 said:

Overall, I’m very proud of Team USA. A lot happened at these Olympics, but they never gave up. I love that everyone is coming home with a medal! 

I'm so, so so proud of Team USA. Especially that team silver. But really, all of them. Mykayla, Jade, Simone, Suni--just GO you guys. Super proud.

11 hours ago, Conotocarious said:

From someone who remembers the horrendous stiffness among the girls even on the team (the “gymnastics hug” where the girls look like they fear the other one is radioactive)in 1992 and 1996 the sportsmanship has just been remarkable this go-round.  I VASTLY prefer it this way.

 

6 hours ago, BrindaWalsh said:

I read some click bait article today about some Olympic gold medalist (I think a Russian wrestler?) saying that Simone needed some tough love or some such thing like that and should never have bowed out and the come back in.  Sure, shithead, the girl who was sexually abused for years by the team doctor and went on to win Olympic all around gold, and all other medals over the past several years, needs "tough love."  I hate these people, keep your damn mouths SHUT.  

A friend of mine who has a podcast recruited me for an interview after I'd posted an obnoxiously long comment in response to a mutual friend's FB comment about Simone:  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/s-3-ep-25-forensic-biles-clara-barton-green/id1459310296?i=1000530639396&fbclid=IwAR0jnjrwq0HPfmF40o2L2lUS17x8B63kqpymhxgGNvDkwcFM_SwZZw988Iw

6 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Ah, the era of the white leos with the white scrunchies and crimped bangs.

Don't forget the myriad floor routines accompanied by screechy violin music! *Sigh* Delusional fools, there is only one Shannon.

2 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

NBC don’t tell us Simone will compete third and then show only one gymnast before she goes up. We have memories and can count so we know you skipped someone who worked hard and deserved our attention.

They skipped Ellie Black and Larisa Iordache. SO pissed.

[Frisky Wig]

Hearing that Nastia called Chellsie fat reminds me of the interview she (Chellsie) did with HBO years ago where, between giggles, she said she ate a piece of fruit for breakfast, chicken for lunch and another piece of fruit for dinner. 

Edited August 4, 2021 by Frisky Wig
Clarified that it was Chellsie who said she lived on chicken and fruit, not Nastia

[Cherpumple]

I'm so happy that one silver lining to the whole Simone thing is that now she knows just how many people love and support her around the world. It made me tear up to see her tweet the other day about how she never really believed until now that people liked her for more than her gymnastics ability. And I chuckled during her interview tonight with Mike Tirico when she was talking about the outpouring of support she's received and casually named dropped Oprah as one of her well-wishers. Yes, there are idiots out there who were hoping she'd fail, but I truly hope she realizes that those people are far outnumbered by people who want her to succeed, in all areas of her life.

[Conotocarious]

33 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

I thought it was a good interview. But if the twisties really just randomly happen, then the conversation about it being a mental health issue and all the pressure doesn't seem to apply. It seems like the stress brought it on. But she doesn't need to tell us all the details if she doesn't want to.

I think also that if the twisties happen and the doubt and fear start, then the resulting horrible stress and anxiety that you’re going to screw everything up and maybe get really hurt would make it a mental health issue too.

27 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

YES.

I'm so, so so proud of Team USA. Especially that team silver. But really, all of them. Mykayla, Jade, Simone, Suni--just GO you guys. Super proud.

 

A friend of mine who has a podcast recruited me for an interview after I'd posted an obnoxiously long comment in response to a mutual friend's FB comment about Simone:  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/s-3-ep-25-forensic-biles-clara-barton-green/id1459310296?i=1000530639396&fbclid=IwAR0jnjrwq0HPfmF40o2L2lUS17x8B63kqpymhxgGNvDkwcFM_SwZZw988Iw

Don't forget the myriad floor routines accompanied by screechy violin music! *Sigh* Delusional fools, there is only one Shannon.

They skipped Ellie Black and Larisa Iordache. SO pissed.

Larisa didn’t compete though.

[choclatechip45]

After that Simone interview fire Tom Forester too bad no one wants that job.

[Danny Franks]

On 8/2/2021 at 9:02 PM, proserpina65 said:

To be fair to Piers Morgan (and yes, saying that does make me want to spew), he hates all women.

He does, especially talented women who leave him feeling inadequate. But he's often quickest to attack those with different coloured skin - Meghan Markle, Serena Williams, Naomi Osaka, Emma Raducanu and now Simone Biles.

High profile figures who he knows will get him attention, but also people he believes he can bully and belittle. I have little doubt that if Katerina Johnson-Thompson is unable to win a medal in the Heptathlon (eight months after rupturing her Achilles tendon) he'll have things to say about that too, although he loves nothing more than being able to attack the perceived mental 'weakness' of women.

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

In an interview tonight Simone says that it’s more difficult to be a female athlete and that so many people want you to fail……I’m trying to figure out why she thinks that.  I thought that most people want her and the other female Olympian’s to be successful, healthy, safe, etc.   That’s really sad if she feels that way.  It’s as if she really isn’t very happy and doesn’t feel it’s a good place to be, though she said she would continue in the sport. 

I think there are always people who want to see successful people fail, for various reasons tied to their own insecurities and resentments (and sometimes because the successful people are also people who have done shitty things, but that's another story). In  Biles' case, there seems to be a vocal segment who think she's... oh, what's that quaint old term?... Uppity.

[PepSinger]

Okay, I'm a little emotional watching Simone's bean routine. I wasn't really expecting to feel so much! 😭

[Cherpumple]

FYI, NBC finally posted the full coverage of the last day of event finals. I'm still annoyed that they waited so long, but I'll probably go back and watch the competitors that didn't make it into the prime time coverage (e.g., the ENTIRE parallel bars event).

[Mellowyellow]

Rewatched Simone! Loved how a bunch of the other girls came to give her a hug afterwards and looked genuinely happy for her. It felt like they really wanted her to succeed and were completely invested in it. I just think it's so lovely! So darn wholesome and feel good!!! 🥰

[Mellowyellow]

Question: Is judging in gymnastics generally non controversial?

I'm a figure skating fan and there is usually a lot of drama with the judging and tech calls. There doesn't seem to be anything like that in Gymnastics at these Olympics. Is that the norm for this sport?

[blueray]

9 hours ago, blackwing said:

Screw you Nothing But Countrymen!  I was looking forward to seeing the Canadian’s 4th place on the beam, and yet they chose to skip her.  Why?  It can’t be because of time.  Because they showed the Russian girl and the Brazilian girl.  Why did those two lower scoring routines get shown and not Ellie Black?  Is it because they biffed and almost fell off?

I’m used to NBC not showing anyone but Americans and medalists, but this is ridiculous.  You’d think they’d want to show a Canadian.  Maybe NBC is still salty about the women’s soccer loss...

I wanted to see her too and to make it worse when they showed the final results it went straight from 3rd (Simone) to 5th (Suni). Skipping Canada altogether :(. 

[scarynikki12]

3 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Question: Is judging in gymnastics generally non controversial?

I'm a figure skating fan and there is usually a lot of drama with the judging and tech calls. There doesn't seem to be anything like that in Gymnastics at these Olympics. Is that the norm for this sport?

It can be controversial but, at least lately, the scoring related drama tends to come from areas like athletes getting scored higher domestically which can mess with their perception of how they'll compete internationally. Also the controversies these days often stem from the code of points and choices that get made each quad. There have been judging controversies historically in gymnastics (Nadia finishing second in the 80 all-around, the judging mistake that led to Paul Hamm's all around win in 04, I would argue the judges not giving Shannon a 10 on her vault in the 92 all-around) so there's plenty to talk about but external non-judging factors (the code, scoring system, and various decisions by the governing body (no touch warm ups for event finals)) tend to be where most of the issues come from.

Figure skating has the edge on this one.

[BlackberryJam]

13 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

It can be controversial but, at least lately, the scoring related drama tends to come from areas like athletes getting scored higher domestically which can mess with their perception of how they'll compete internationally. Also the controversies these days often stem from the code of points and choices that get made each quad. There have been judging controversies historically in gymnastics (Nadia finishing second in the 80 all-around, the judging mistake that led to Paul Hamm's all around win in 04, I would argue the judges not giving Shannon a 10 on her vault in the 92 all-around) so there's plenty to talk about but external non-judging factors (the code, scoring system, and various decisions by the governing body (no touch warm ups for event finals)) tend to be where most of the issues come from.

Figure skating has the edge on this one.

The "new" code of points, with an unlimited total value, has really lessened judging controversies. I started to type it out, but then figured it was easier to cut and paste. I did the bolding.

Quote

Difficulty Score: difficulty and technical content. The Difficulty Score represents what was previously known as the start value and includes difficulty and credit for connections (two high-level skills that are connected) and element group requirements, which are the basic categories of skills/elements that must be included in a routine. The element group requirements vary by apparatus. This score is determined by the A Panel, which is a two-person panel.

The difficulty value is determined by totaling values for the 10 most difficult skills, which includes the dismount. Each skill has a set difficulty value, as outlined in the Code of Points, and for the women are divided into seven classifications, with six for the men. The difficulty value of a skill or element is not recognized if it fails to meet its technical requirements. Also, credit is also only given once for a skill.

Connection value is awarded when specific skills or skill types are executed successfully in succession. The women can earn connection values for the balance beam, uneven bars and floor exercise, while the men can earn it for the floor exercise, still rings and horizontal bar. For men and women, each connection value is either 0.1 or 0.2 points.

Element group requirements are the basic skills or elements that must be included in each routine and vary by apparatus. This area is similar to the special requirements in the past. If all of the requirements are included, a maximum of 2.5 points is awarded.

Each judge on the A Panel independently reaches his/her Difficulty Score and then the two compare and reach a consensus.

After the score has been posted, a coach may inquire about the Difficulty Score, first verbally and then in writing. An inquiry may be resolved by using video review. The initial inquiry must be made prior to the completion of the next gymnast's routine. The written inquiry must be submitted before the end of the rotation, and the Superior Jury reviews the inquiry. At FIG events, a fee is assessed for filing an inquiry; it is returned if the inquiry is upheld.

Execution Score: execution, artistry, composition and technique. The Execution Score, determined by a six-person B Panel, now begins at 10 and deductions are made for errors and faults in technique, execution and artistry/composition. Each judge independently determines his/her score. The highest and lowest scores are dropped, and the gymnast's Execution Score is the average of the remaining four judges' scores. Deductions for neutral errors are subtracted from the sum of the Difficulty and Execution Scores.

The deductions for various errors have changed and now range from 0.1 point for a small error to 0.8 point for a fall. Neutral errors include those for stepping out of bounds or violating time requirements, as well as attire or podium violations.

Inquiries are not allowed on the Execution Score.

Total score. The gymnast's final score is the total of the Difficulty and Execution Scores less any deductions for neutral errors. 

The real controversy comes when they don't give enough points on the difficulty of the skill, which is what has happened to Simone. And execution counts more than difficulty. So you can just do easy skills and do them beautifully. Say a gymnast does only the required elements, and their ten most difficult skills only total .2 points because they aren't doing anything hard, but 7 of them are done with perfect connection, adding another 1.1 to the score. And it's executed perfectly for a 10.

That gymnasts score is 2.5 for required elements, .2 for their most difficult skills, 1.1 for connection, and 10 for execution with no deductions. That gymnast will score a 13.8. Not a bad score at all.

And you have a gymnast who is really, really trying something hard, so they get 2.5 for required elements, 2.2 for their most difficult skills, .9 for connection, and 9.0 for execution with a -.1 penalty for a hop on the landing, that score is a 14.6. A better score. The gymnast trying the harder skill is more likely to have penalties, not fully complete that skill or not be able to connect it. But when they do...wow.

In figure skating, that scoring system is whack. They went from an often corrupt 6.0 system to a difficult to understand and likely still corrupt system. Each component (jump, spin, spiral) in figure skating gets a separate Grade of Execution score from -5 to +5. I can follow it when I watch, but it's not transparent and it's not easily understandable. 

[Enero]

12 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

Even with the errors Guan’s routine is gorgeous so her win is dead on. 

This! I just finished watching the replay on NBC Sports App. They finally released it! RME. Lol.

Anyway, Guan was by far the most gorgeous and interesting gymnast on the beam. I enjoyed all of the extra touches she added, specifically in her hand movements, that almost gave her routine the appearance of a dance. Very lovely. Gold medal well-deserved.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Enero

[Daisy]

We're Number Four! We're Number Four!!!

(Seriously - I am so happy for Ellie Black being 4th.... but i am gutted that she couldn't win Canada's first gymnastic's medal on the woman's side, at what would be her last Olympics). 

[Frisky Wig]

23 minutes ago, Daisy said:

We're Number Four! We're Number Four!!!

(Seriously - I am so happy for Ellie Black being 4th.... but i am gutted that she couldn't win Canada's first gymnastic's medal on the woman's side, at what would be her last Olympics). 

I feel the same way. Ellie made some mistakes but I really wanted to see her medal. Yet I’m overjoyed for Simone. The beam final has me all conflicted! 

[ShellsandCheese]

On 8/2/2021 at 11:41 AM, Jeddah said:

I appreciate artistry, but I do want to see the big skills. I think there’s a middle ground. The Olympics are supposed to be about higher, faster, stronger. If the focus was on easier skills with artistry, Jade wouldn’t be Olympic Champion right now. I’m not sure Simone would have 4 gold medals. Some people can do the big skills safely, and they push the sport forward. I think the culture needs to change so gymnasts aren’t forced into doing skills they aren’t prepared for, and mental and physical health are valued. And judges need to give bad execution scores to big skills done with bad technique. But I’d hate for there to be a cap on what these athletes can do.

I think there's a balance between two. For the last few years, everyone has been so focused on the big skills that they've forgotten about everything else (form, artistry, clean execution, the little details, etc). I'm not sure if it was the lack of warm-ups or what, but during the games this year, it seemed like everyone was struggling. Personally, I would rather see a beautiful clean yurchenko double over a sloppy Amanar where the gymnasts struggle with the landing and form, etc.