S01.E05: Hanged

[nodorothyparker]

Airdate 2021.05.09

Quote

As the city buzzes with anticipation over a pending execution, Penance grapples with a moral calling at odds with Amalia's plan. With the two women at a crossroads, the Orphans must decide whom to follow.

 

[SeanC]

The episode where the studio note arrived saying this is HBO so the lead actresses have to go topless at some point.

[Cerulean]

I wondered how her teeth were so white. Fake teeth. 

[owenthurman]

WOW

Did they skip the part where they talk about the Galanthi?

[ZeeEnnui]

20 minutes ago, owenthurman said:

WOW

Did they skip the part where they talk about the Galanthi?

Right?! Was I not paying attention to last week's episode? I felt like you could have made a drinking game out of how many times someone said "Galanthi," and I would be very drunk by the end of the hour (but still missing key information).

Ugh! I love Penance, but there is no narrative plot device that I dislike more than saving an irritating character. Mrs. True laid down some hard truth on Penance - yes, Massen was using the execution to perpetuate anti-Touched propaganda but Maladie had still killed twelve people. Both things can be true at once. Yes,  Victorian justice was certainly harsh, but it wasn't as if Maladie had been framed. Penance was being naive, and should have been focused on the bigger picture. Which of course was that Maladie wasn't going anywhere because Joss Whedon has always has one absolutely annoying character like this on all of his shows (No offense to Amy Manson, I'm sure she's a very good actress in other things).

I think many of us called the Eager Beaver Reporter who appeared out of nowhere with her obvious set of false teeth as Maladie in disguise. So, the end reveal kind of fell flat for me (and anyone who has ever seen The Usual Suspects).

Awww trouble in (birds of) paradise between awkwardly adorable Augie and Penance. Augie choosing True means that Penance is definitely not going to the prom with him now.

 

[aghst]

I thought I was the one who missed the Galanthi.  Maybe those digging underneath that cracking egg or whatever that blue thing is, which causes them to put on goggles as the pulsing blue light gets intensely bright.

Obviously they're holding back what happened with Amalia and the Galanthi for the "Part 1 Finale."

I thought they had too many speeches about the barbarism of capital punishment, or was it just the public executions that they objected to?  In the Inside the Episode, they have an historical consultant telling us that public executions brought all the classes together because of the entertainment value?

So I wonder if  these little speeches vs. executing Maladie is typical for the period.

Amalia and Dr. Cousens, I thought the Dr. had a wife?  Also they made it sound like Amalia satisfied her desires at the bars in one of the previous episodes.

It looked like more than friends with benefits relationship.  Amalia insisted that what they were doing wasn't wrong.  What were the conventions for interracial relationships in Victorian England?  In the same time period, in say the Southern US, such relationships would be dangerous, especially for the black man.  So it would be interesting to see if Amalia and Horatio will be open about the relationship.

[AnimeMania]

Yes, this episode made me feel like I missed an episode. There were a lot of things in this episode that were not clarified in the previous episodes.

16 minutes ago, ZeeEnnui said:

Awww trouble in (birds of) paradise between awkwardly adorable Augie and Penance. Augie choosing True means that Penance is definitely not going to the prom with him now.

Augie was an integral part of Amaila's plan, his birds were to provide noise and keep people away, so he couldn't go with Penance even if he wanted to.

I thought the skin around Maladie's mouth was covered with sores.

Were we supposed to know who the girl with the missing toes is, I haven't a clue.

[Enigma X]

I felt the whole Maladie outcome was a bit deus ex machina for me.

[SeanC]

18 minutes ago, aghst said:

It looked like more than friends with benefits relationship.  Amalia insisted that what they were doing wasn't wrong.  What were the conventions for interracial relationships in Victorian England?  In the same time period, in say the Southern US, such relationships would be dangerous, especially for the black man.

Not illegal, but very socially disapproved.

While obviously the creator is part of the reason I'm always comparing this to Buffy, but this feels a bit like if you look a 22-episode season of that show and then stripped out everything but the core plot points, in the process losing a lot of the character detail, etc. that would really make the project rich. I was already thinking about this in episode 4, but 5 even moreso, there's just too many minor characters here we haven't had any time to know, and a group dynamic that hadn't even formed before the plot starts pitting them against each other and/or revealing that people are traitors.  Like, imagine the "everyone chooses sides" scene if we actually knew who all those people and what their relationships to each other and to Penance and Amalia were.

[peridot]

9 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

Were we supposed to know who the girl with the missing toes is, I haven't a clue.

The fake Maladie was the sidekick who sacrificed her toes to become Touched.

I hate that they had the doctor continue his affair with True. When they were arguing a few episodes ago, I thought it was a one-time thing, not an ongoing affair.

I didn't feel sorry for the people who rushed to have an up close view of the execution.

[ZeeEnnui]

30 minutes ago, peridot said:

I hate that they had the doctor continue his affair with True. When they were arguing a few episodes ago, I thought it was a one-time thing, not an ongoing affair.

Like a lot of the plot points in this episode, I feel like we went straight from A to C with these two. The doctor was pretty clear that they were finished but this episode they were back into full-blown affair (and were NOT being quiet about it). I'd be more interested in this relationship, if it were, I don't know...developed?

 

32 minutes ago, SeanC said:

While obviously the creator is part of the reason I'm always comparing this to Buffy, but this feels a bit like if you look a 22-episode season of that show and then stripped out everything but the core plot points, in the process losing a lot of the character detail, etc. that would really make the project rich. I was already thinking about this in episode 4, but 5 even moreso, there's just too many minor characters here we haven't had any time to know, and a group dynamic that hadn't even formed before the plot starts pitting them against each other and/or revealing that people are traitors.  Like, imagine the "everyone chooses sides" scene if we actually knew who all those people and what their relationships to each other and to Penance and Amalia were.

Thank you! Imagine the impact if the tensions of the True/Penance courtyard face off actually had been built up over the course of an episode. We know, understand, and are often delighted by the True/Penance friendship dynamic. This is major that they are on opposite sides of an issue, but the execution was super rushed. If the show spent time with the supporting characters, the choosing sides moment may have had a bigger impact.

Stop trying to make Galanthi happen, show! (Unless you plan on giving us a bit more information about the Galanthi before namedropping them for 55 minutes).

Edited May 10, 2021 by ZeeEnnui
fixing a redundant sentence

[Stuffy]

How does no one involved in this show realize it’s strange the characters are talking about a word/name we’ve never heard.  
 

Or even how Amalia and the doctor are suddenly hooking up after he was clearly trying to avoid that again.  
 

Did I miss a time jump title card at the beginning of the episode? Was this the plan or a consequence of Whedon quitting?

I’ll take being labeled a prude, but it seems like the show would benefit from keeping the nudity to the sex club. 

Edited May 10, 2021 by Stuffy

[thuganomics85]

Honestly, I feel like an idiot for not seeing Maladie as the reporter until the very end.  Usually I'm good at placing actors/actresses' faces, but I really didn't recognize Amy Manson in the role.  To be fair, both roles require her to have a lot of make-up and prosthetics, but I'm usually more on the ball here!

I get having Amalia and Penance clashing on going on separate missions and both of them apparently failing, to show that they are at their strongest together.  But I just wish Penance's motivations didn't involve her saving Maladie of all people.  It's true that Lord Massen and company making sure the execution was public was to stir up emotions and anger, but even if Penance's rescue operation worked, it probably would have caused just as many problems for them as well.  I just didn't see any real gain from it except a possible moral one, but that's questionable as well, since it would have involved freeing Maladie, who is a danger to many: both Touched and not.  Of course, I guess it really doesn't matter since Maladie was never in danger thanks to her little switch-out.

Of course, The Beggar King is running a children's sweatshop that has them making hanging dolls just in time for the execution!  I guess you can't be The Beggar King without breaking a few OSHA rules...

Poor Augie had a hell of an episode!  First, he gets embarrassed by his sister at lunch.  Then he's accused of using his bird powers for pervy reasons.  But once he seems clear of that, the same person also gets upset that he isn't checking her out more.  And then it all ends with him siding with the other team, so date night will likely be put on hold for a while.

I know what to expect with a HBO show, but seeing that this episode was directed by Whedon himself did make me question the Amalia/Cousens sex scene.  I just hope Laura Donnelly was comfortable with the nudity that was shown.

Still liked the episode, but it did feel kind of rushed and like there was a missing episode somewhere.  I do wonder if some stuff ended up getting scaled down or cut to finish this first part in six episodes.

[MrPissyPuppy]

5 hours ago, ZeeEnnui said:

Stop trying to make Galanthi happen, show! (Unless you plan on giving us a bit more information about the Galanthi before namedropping them for 55 minutes).

I think that might be the name of the ship that seeded the Nevers.   It means snowdrop in Latin.   Didn't the ship sort of look like a snowflake?   Maybe it's a sentient ship that she communicates/communicated with somehow. 

[Bill1978]

I had to pop in here half way through watching the episode to confirm that I didn't miss an episode cause the whole thing with the Galanthi was so damn confusing. I know Prudence told True about Auggie being touched last episode but suddenly he has been recruited for this Galanthi drill and everyone knows in the orphange is aware of him being one of them. I'm half expecting HBO to come out and say they screwed up and showed the wrong episode.

How I know this is a Whedon show? The one character I wish would die as they have overstayed their welcome for me refuses to die AND I'm meant to be happy they are still alive.

[CouchTater]

2 hours ago, Bill1978 said:

I had to pop in here half way through watching the episode to confirm that I didn't miss an episode cause the whole thing with the Galanthi was so damn confusing. I know Prudence told True about Auggie being touched last episode but suddenly he has been recruited for this Galanthi drill and everyone knows in the orphange is aware of him being one of them. I'm half expecting HBO to come out and say they screwed up and showed the wrong episode.

How I know this is a Whedon show? The one character I wish would die as they have overstayed their welcome for me refuses to die AND I'm meant to be happy they are still alive.

I remember mention of 30 days having past since...I think Nimble Jack's arrival at the orphanage.  That was another "when did this happen" moment for me.  

What exactly was True's plan?  Admittedly I was playing Candy Crush while watching, but it really wasn't clear to me.

My watching experience:

Episode 1:  it was so good I watched multiple times!

Episodes 2 and 3:  Meh, I'll see it through but I need less sex club and Maladie. (I would have been fine with Real Maladie being gone).

Episode 4:  I'm back in!  So good!

Episode 5:  Huh?  What?  When?  How?  Why?  Who?

[Bort]

6 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

I know what to expect with a HBO show, but seeing that this episode was directed by Whedon himself did make me question the Amalia/Cousens sex scene.  I just hope Laura Donnelly was comfortable with the nudity that was shown.

She did it on Outlander so it must not bother her that much. And from what I remember about British tv, nudity is a lot more prevalent there that it is in the states. They have that 9pm watershed time.

Maladie pulled a Usual Suspects/Prestige, ho hum. I was more interested in Amalia and Penance’s discussion about Sarah. Penance definitely seems to know all about Amalia occupying someone’s body.

[Stuffy]

51 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

She did it on Outlander so it must not bother her that much. And from what I remember about British tv, nudity is a lot more prevalent there that it is in the states. They have that 9pm watershed time.

I assume she’s okay with it because she seems like the type to stand up for herself if she didn’t want it. Also Joss wanted her specifically after seeing The Ferryman in London, so she probably could’ve had the power to veto nude scenes if she really wanted to. 

While I think Laura is fine with it, I do always wonder if actresses are okay with the nudity and sex scenes or extremely unhappy with them like Emilia Clark was. Also many actresses have admitted they only did nudity early in their career because they thought they had to for employment. That’s always in the back of my mind.

Btw at least one of the topless scenes in outlander was prosthetics. In an interview, Donnelly laughed about the “milk” shooting everywhere including on Caitriona (sp?) during that scene. 
 

Separately, I hope the new show runner is outstanding because there’s a great show with longevity buried somewhere in this currently uneven show.  Because, I really do like the characters and people playing them.  I also hope she never allows an episode this  one that randomly starts talking about things they’ve never mentioned before. Even the most guilty pleasure trash shows do time jumps better than this episode. 

Edited May 10, 2021 by Stuffy

[Zonk]

So nothing supernatural about Maladie being Effy Boile. Just a good old fashioned switcheroo. Also explains how she was caught so easily. It's not often that I don't see twists coming (that the explaination wasn't supernatural, that they were the same person, I noticed), so kudos to the writers.

12 hours ago, SeanC said:

The episode where the studio note arrived saying this is HBO so the lead actresses have to go topless at some point.

And still no man on man action. I'm disappoint in you, HBO.

12 hours ago, owenthurman said:

Did they skip the part where they talk about the Galanthi?

9 hours ago, Stuffy said:

How does no one involved in this show realize it’s strange the characters are talking about a word/name we’ve never heard.  

It's something that is understood between the touched in the orphanage but we haven't been privy to as of yet. They've used that form of story telling a few times now and I really like it. It seems fresh. Don't think I've ever seen it before, or if I have it was a long time ago.

I think it could get tedious, but at the pace they are moving the story along, I'm fine with it so far.

11 hours ago, aghst said:

It looked like more than friends with benefits relationship.  Amalia insisted that what they were doing wasn't wrong.  What were the conventions for interracial relationships in Victorian England?  In the same time period, in say the Southern US, such relationships would be dangerous, especially for the black man.  So it would be interesting to see if Amalia and Horatio will be open about the relationship.

I think the wrongness is more about that the dude is married and his wife doesn't seem to know about the affair...

With a quick google I found at least one interracial couple who was married around 1900. So close enough. I would assume it was a case of "not enough black people around to actually care or make laws about it".

[Stuffy]

1 minute ago, Zonk said:

It's something that is understood between the touched in the orphanage but we haven't been privy to as of yet. They've used that form of story telling a few times now and I really like it. It seems fresh. Don't think I've ever seen it before, or if I have it was a long time ago.

I think it could get tedious, but at the pace they are moving the story along, I'm fine with it so far.

I like that Penance knows everything about Amalia, so her knowing doesn’t surprise me. The show has definitely shown that they don’t have any secrets, or keep any from each other for long. I appreciate that about their friendship. Plus the loyalty, they may disagree but that’s not coming between them. 
 

The rest of the orphanage knowing is what I found awkward. I would be okay if they didn’t end the last episode asking who was sending the message then immediately cutting to everyone knowing the next episode. Explaining “the who” to everyone would’ve been an interesting scene and helped with the weird jump.

 

[rove4]

12 hours ago, ZeeEnnui said:

Ugh! I love Penance, but there is no narrative plot device that I dislike more than saving an irritating character. Mrs. True laid down some hard truth on Penance - yes, Massen was using the execution to perpetuate anti-Touched propaganda but Maladie had still killed twelve people. Both things can be true at once. Yes,  Victorian justice was certainly harsh, but it wasn't as if Maladie had been framed. Penance was being naive, and should have been focused on the bigger picture.

Not to mention that it would not have done the Touched any favors in public perception if they had been seen as successfully rescuing a known murderer who also happened to be Touched. 

I was very disappointed to see that Amalia and Horatio (is that his name) started their affair up again.  That he would hurt his wife that way and that Amalia would do that to another woman, it makes me respect them a little less.

So what did Maladie, as Effie Boyle, say to Swan?

Both Lavinia and Massen have now mentioned finding a cure.  Does that mean they're in cahoots with whatever is going on underground and with the experiments on Touched? If our suspicions are true that Massen's daughter isn't dead but is being kept in the basement then him wanting to find a cure makes sense.  I'm wondering about Lavinia, though.  She used to skate so she hasn't always been in a wheelchair.  Did she lose the use of her legs three years ago?  Does she maybe have a mermaid's tale?  (j/k) But she was having those headaches at the restaurant.  Initially I thought it was just a result of being exposed to the pulsating light of the thing underground but now I'm not so sure.  It could be some by product of her own Turn which would explain why she's looking for a cure by whatever means possible. 

The scene with Penance and Augie was cute but then he had to go and side with Amalia (which I totally back him up on). She definitely wasn't happy about that. Penance, I like you, but trying to rescue a known murderer wasn't your best idea.

Maladie did rescue Harriet though so not sure what that's about.

I really like Mundi and that he put everything together. 

Edited May 10, 2021 by rove4

[TexasGal]

39 minutes ago, rove4 said:

 

Both Lavinia and Massen have now mentioned finding a cure.  Does that mean they're in cahoots with whatever is going on underground and with the experiments on Touched? If our suspicions are true that Massen's daughter isn't dead but is being kept in the basement then him wanting to find a cure makes sense.  I'm wondering about Lavinia, though.  She used to skate so she hasn't always been in a wheelchair.  Did she lose the use of her legs three years ago?  Does she maybe have a mermaid's tale?  (j/k) But she was having those headaches at the restaurant.  Initially I thought it was just a result of being exposed to the pulsating light of the thing underground but now I'm not so sure.  It could be some by product of her own Turn which would explain why she's looking for a cure by whatever means possible. 

 

I wonder about Lavinia also.  But, when they showed the touching (THAT sounds wrong! 😄), I'm pretty sure she was already in a wheelchair and Augie was pushing her before he fell down.

[rove4]

26 minutes ago, TexasGal said:

I wonder about Lavinia also.  But, when they showed the touching (THAT sounds wrong! 😄), I'm pretty sure she was already in a wheelchair and Augie was pushing her before he fell down.

You're right, I'd forgotten about that. Darn, no mermaid tail!  

[12catcrazy]

Another episode which left me confused.  Who arranged for that mass electrocution?  Massen, The Beggar King, Maladie or ???  And did Massen say that he ordered the "hit" on Mary?   I can't understand half of what is being spoken on this show!  And the opening sex scene - ok, we get it, Amalia is a lusty woman, but ick.  Especially in that her lover is a married man.   I agree with Stuffy above - I wish they'd keep the nudity and sex to where it should be - in Swann's sex club.   

[Popples]

1 hour ago, 12catcrazy said:

Another episode which left me confused.  Who arranged for that mass electrocution?  Massen, The Beggar King, Maladie or ???

It was Maladie. The man who can make anybody believe his lies is the one who flipped the switch and he works for/with her. I was just wondering if he lied to the woman with the missing toes to take Maldie's place or was she crazy enough on her own to do it, but if you cut off your own toes, it's probably the latter.

I'm relieved to see I'm not the only one who felt in the dark about Galanthi. I even restarted the episode to see if I had missed something.

Penance saying "I have practiced saying this and I feel sweaty" was hilarious and relatable.

[MissLucas]

Well, that was all over the place. I wonder if the real world plague left its first noticeable impact here.

First things first: one of the iron rules of mystery writing is that your main characters should not know things that the readers don't. There are exceptions though - but I think the show pushed the principle her to the limit and beyond. Amalia having secrets was okay, it made her character more intriguing, and I was also okay with Penance and maybe Doc knowing more than we do (though that's not clearly established in-show). But having the whole orphanage blab about the Gelati (you don't deserve better show) without letting us know what had been said after Primrose had read out Myrtle's translation is a cheap cop-out and annoying.

Speaking of annoying: Penance. If I got the time-line right there's been weeks or even months since last episode all spent on planning the Gelati rescue/excavation. And there would also have been some time between Maladie's trial and the execution. Yet, Pennance comes up with a plan for saving Maladie almost literally last minute? And what did she plan to do once she had Maladie rescued? The orphanage would have been ransacked by the mob. Maybe she did not think as far because she assumed by that time she'd already been killed by Maladie? And it also made no sense that she never explained the plan to Amalia or the Touched. For dramatic reasons that was left out but it made no sense for the characters present in the big stand-off. Had I been asked to chose sides I'd gone with Amalia since there I had had at least an idea what the plan was. Obviously, I would have gone for plenty of other reasons too. 

On to the good: I loved the conversation between Massen and the Beggar King. So much going on. And I loved the show's long con with the murder victim in the subway and Maladie's toe-churning stan. Both characters I had forgotten about. Speaking of forgotten characters: someone asked in the thread for last episode if the lobotomized Touched lose their Turn. This episode we saw the Italian shop assistent working in the Gelati cave and she levitated a bucket. So either they keep their Turn or her lobotomy was not complete.

Tiny details I also loved: Harriet not being able to shut up around Desirée during the rescue attempt. Each and every of Swann's outfits. He was the sartorial MVP of this episode. Norton looks good in green. 

Questions beyond the nature of the Gelati: What went wrong with team Amalia? And what the hell are Lavinia and her Doctor up to? I wonder if she knows Augie is touched and is therefore genuinely trying to find a cure (a couple of lobotomized working class girls would be acceptable to safe her brother and I assume family heir).

For those wondering about the sex-scene: credits list Lizzy Talbot as intimacy co-ordinator. She's also worked on The Witcher and Bridgerton.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I'm relieved to see I'm not the only one who felt in the dark about Galanthi. I even restarted the episode to see if I had missed something.

This is the second episode in a row that left me confused. I'm not at all sure what the hell was going on in the final scene. I gather that Maladie and the reporter switched places, or are they the same person? When did the switch happen and who got hanged? What the hell is a Galanthi? At one point Penance said something about what happened to Sarah and I was racking my brain trying to remember who the hell Sarah was, let alone what happened to her.

I'm trying to like this show but I think it's trying far too hard to be clever. These people are "touched" so why isn't the show called "The Touched?" They all have a special power or ability but they don't call them powers or abilities, they call them "turns" because . . . it's just more clever I guess. And the show isn't called "The Turned" either, it's called "The Nevers" for some vague, ill-defined reason perhaps based on a throwaway lines in the first episode that has no obvious relevance to the story.

Quote

It was Maladie. The man who can make anybody believe his lies is the one who flipped the switch and he works for/with her. I was just wondering if he lied to the woman with the missing toes to take Maldie's place or was she crazy enough on her own to do it, but if you cut off your own toes, it's probably the latter.

See, I thought it was Massen. He was the one who asked the Beggar King for help in creating chaos which is exactly what happened. And I don't remember ever seeing the guy who can brainwash people before. He's not the same guy as the one with the machine gun arm, is he? Cuz he and the fire thrower are the only co-horts of Maladie I remember seeing.

Clearly I am not the only one confused about all of this.

[MissLucas]

25 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

This is the second episode in a row that left me confused. I'm not at all sure what the hell was going on in the final scene. I gather that Maladie and the reporter switched places, or are they the same person? When did the switch happen and who got hanged? What the hell is a Galanthi? At one point Penance said something about what happened to Sarah and I was racking my brain trying to remember who the hell Sarah was, let alone what happened to her.

 

Maladie switched places with her crazy fan (who desperately wanted to be touched) during the scene where Mundi was chasing her. The reporter shows up for the first time after (fake) Maladie had been arrested. Maladie had killed the real Effie Boyle a long time ago. We saw her unidentified body in the pilot. So Maladie must have planned to take on her identity for quite some time. The crazy Maladie fan got hanged. 

Sarah is Maladie's real name. And we still don't know what Amalia did to her, but Penance does. 

25 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

And I don't remember ever seeing the guy who can brainwash people before. He's not the same guy as the one with the machine gun arm, is he? Cuz he and the fire thrower are the only co-horts of Maladie I remember seeing.

He's not the same guy. We saw him before for example when he lured Doc into the carriage to treat Maladie's wound.

 

Edited May 10, 2021 by MissLucas

[CouchTater]

22 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

Maladie switched places with her crazy fan (who desperately wanted to be touched) during the scene where Mundi was chasing her. The reporter shows up for the first time after (fake) Maladie had been arrested. Maladie had killed the real Effie Boyle a long time ago. We saw her unidentified body in the pilot. So Maladie must have planned to take on her identity for quite some time. The crazy Maladie fan got hanged. 

Sarah is Maladie's real name. And we still don't know what Amalia did to her, but Penance does. 

He's not the same guy. We saw him before for example when he lured Doc into the carriage to treat Maladie's wound.

 

I missed that the body from ep 1 was the real Effie Boyle.  How do we know this?  I'm not doubting you, just curious.

[MissLucas]

It's in the scene where Mundi puts two and two together. He has a flashback to the murder scene, and various encounters with 'Effie Boyle', there's even one with her pointing to a photo of the unidentified victim on his wall asking 'who's this?' - taunting him as it turns out. 

At the end of the scene he opens a file and wipes out the 'unknown' stamp on the line for victim's name and writes Effie Boyle.

But I'm also confused about who killed Effie Boyle. I thought it was Maladie but in the pilot Mundi was convinced that she was not one of Maladie's victims.

[CouchTater]

Just now, MissLucas said:

It's in the scene where Mundi puts two and two together. He has a flashback to the murder scene, and various encounters with 'Effie Boyle', there's even one with her pointing to a photo of the unidentified victim on his wall asking 'who's this?' - taunting him as it turns out. 

At the end of the scene he opens a file and wipes out the 'unknown' stamp on the line for victim's name and writes Effie Boyle.

But I'm also confused about who killed Effie Boyle. I thought it was Maladie but in the pilot Mundi was convinced that she was not one of Maladie's victims.

I remember that, but still don't see the dots that Mundi connected.  That was lost on me.

[Bill1978]

3 minutes ago, CouchTater said:

I remember that, but still don't see the dots that Mundi connected.  That was lost on me.

I think the dots he connected were based on the conversation he had with Maladie as Effie over the photos of the body in the office and Maladie as Effie's detailed knowledge about the victim's coat and how that could help work out who the victim was.

[CouchTater]

Just now, Bill1978 said:

I think the dots he connected were based on the conversation he had with Maladie as Effie over the photos of the body in the office and Maladie as Effie's detailed knowledge about the victim's coat and how that could help work out who the victim was.

Ahh, ok, thanks!!!  I didn't hear the part about the victim's coat.  I will have to rewatch.

Regarding that scene when Mundi first investigated the dead body, I always wondered why he was so quick to rule out Maladie as the killer.  From what I remember he noted the misspelled world angle (instead of angel).  But why would that rule Maladie out?  Does Mundi know for a fact that she is an excellent speller?  Or was it the pig's blood that ruled out Maladie?

This show is an enigma wrapped in a mystery.  I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.  Jury's still out for me.

[peridot]

I'm wondering about another thing - is Maladie actually crazy? She was about to be committed in the first episode and now she can impersonate a reporter?

[taanja]

6 hours ago, 12catcrazy said:

Another episode which left me confused.  Who arranged for that mass electrocution?  Massen, The Beggar King, Maladie or ???  And did Massen say that he ordered the "hit" on Mary?   I can't understand half of what is being spoken on this show!  And the opening sex scene - ok, we get it, Amalia is a lusty woman, but ick.  Especially in that her lover is a married man.   I agree with Stuffy above - I wish they'd keep the nudity and sex to where it should be - in Swann's sex club.   

Closed Captioning! There are so many accents -- it's a lifesaver!

Anyway, even though someone posted a spoiler about Effie being Maladie -- I just didn't really believe it so I was totally surprised by the ole switcharoo! Plus-- I wasn't ready for the crazy one to die yet.

Also I understood Penance's point of view -- if you allow one touched to be killed -- then all touched are fair game. (The scenes of the touched were being brought to the police station to be "identified" and were made to wear the ribbons) << that reminded me of Nazi Germany with the stars to identify the Jews. 

Also it seems that public executions in England were not a thing anymore. Like didn't someone say they had been outlawed for 15 years ago? So, by making an exception to hang Maladie, it was setting a precedence. If it becomes a thing to hang one of them --- why not all of them?

It seems Massen and Swan and Lavinia Bidlow et all are behind the killing of the touched. Massen hired the walk on water dude to try to take out Amalia and may have paid machine gun dude to kill Mary. 

Hey! I'm just gonna say it -- I watch HBO for nudity and sex and drugs and rock and roll. I don't give a shit about TV fictional characters cheating. The Doc is hot! and Amalia deserves a little something something! She seems like she needs to let off steam. I say more naked sex! 

This is the only new show out there that I really like. I figure next weeks ep is going to be what happened to Amalia and her team.

Am I understanding correctly that this is only part one of of a two part season one?

[WatchrTina]

3 hours ago, MissLucas said:

For those wondering about the sex-scene: credits list Lizzy Talbot as intimacy co-ordinator. She's also worked on The Witcher and Bridgerton.

It would be interesting to learn how one winds up in the role of "intimacy co-ordinator."  Do you think they hire people who have worked in porn because they have experience making sex look sexy on camera?  Or do you think they hire an older, comforting, maternal type who hands out bathrobes and modesty pouches as needed and makes the actors very comfortable that no bits will be shown on camera that were not contracted to be shown.

[owenthurman]

3 hours ago, MissLucas said:

The reporter shows up for the first time after (fake) Maladie had been arrested.

 

She shows up for the first time in the police station. A few minutes (viewer time) later, Maladie attacks the police chief, whom Effie had just been speaking with. Maladie is arrested after Effie’s first scene.

[MissLucas]

4 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

It would be interesting to learn how one winds up in the role of "intimacy co-ordinator."  Do you think they hire people who have worked in porn because they have experience making sex look sexy on camera?  Or do you think they hire an older, comforting, maternal type who hands out bathrobes and modesty pouches as needed and makes the actors very comfortable that no bits will be shown on camera that were not contracted to be shown.

She's collected various articles about her work on her homepage.

[Haleth]

Galanthi?  What/who are the Galanthi?  The people in the spaceship?  Whatever is inside that blue orb?  Why have we never heard the name before?  Did I miss an episode?

I love Penance but did she and her side forget Maladie is a raving lunatic who murdered several people?

I figured there was a reason why we didn’t see “Maladie’s” face before the hanging.

I dunno. This show started out so great but I’m  starting to lose interest because the last couple epis have been too confusing and nonsensical. 

[CouchTater]

 I watched Mundi's revelation scene again.  The sequence showed a quick snippet of the corpse's fingers (episode one), which were apparently ink-stained.  Then there was a quick clip in the police station of a male reporter telling "Effie" that having ink-stained fingers doesn't make her a reporter.  That seemed realistic enough for me to believe that Mundi connected those 2 things to come to the conclusion that the reporter Effie may have been murdered in episode 1.  

And I guess Mary told him that the touch-wannabe had cut off her toes?  Because otherwise, how would Mundi know that? 

[Bill1978]

9 hours ago, taanja said:

Anyway, even though someone posted a spoiler about Effie being Maladie -- I just didn't really believe it so I was totally surprised by the ole switcharoo! Plus-- I wasn't ready for the crazy one to die yet.

When Effie was talking about the coat I thought to myself, her voice sounds like the actress who plays Maladie but then I quickly dismissed it as having ears not exposed to British accents all day every day and thought nothing more of it. I should have listened to my ears.

9 hours ago, taanja said:

Massen hired the walk on water dude to try to take out Amalia

I honestly thought the guy was dead, was it meant to be shocking a reveal that he lived (and it was explained in the 'missing' episode) or did I miss something from the actual previous episode that indicated he was alive?

[Bill1978]

7 hours ago, Haleth said:

I love Penance but did she and her side forget Maladie is a raving lunatic who murdered several people?

This is the only issue I had with Penanace's plan. I totally got on board the concept of the importance of making sure The Touhed weren't targeted but saving a mass murdering Touched from execution is the wrong way to prove your point.

[Spaceman Spiff]

11 hours ago, taanja said:

Also I understood Penance's point of view -- if you allow one touched to be killed -- then all touched are fair game. (The scenes of the touched were being brought to the police station to be "identified" and were made to wear the ribbons) << that reminded me of Nazi Germany with the stars to identify the Jews. 

Also it seems that public executions in England were not a thing anymore. Like didn't someone say they had been outlawed for 15 years ago? So, by making an exception to hang Maladie, it was setting a precedence. If it becomes a thing to hang one of them --- why not all of them?

 

As did I, and also thought it brought to mind the star for Jews and Pink triangles for homosexuals. Or to put it in super hero terms, it reminded me of the mutant registration act in X-Men comics, another group constantly persecuted for "what" they are.

I also agree with your assessment in the second paragraph quoted. The multiple nooses hanging outside the orphanage was a clear "you are next". Again to bring it back to X-Men, I truly think Professor X would save Magneto had the government decided to publicly execute him to make a statement.

All the people to follow Penance were the ones who were listening to Desiree read the news paper article about the hanging and took umbrage to the idea of it being made public.

[Haleth]

8 hours ago, CouchTater said:

 I watched Mundi's revelation scene again.  The sequence showed a quick snippet of the corpse's fingers (episode one), which were apparently ink-stained.  Then there was a quick clip in the police station of a male reporter telling "Effie" that having ink-stained fingers doesn't make her a reporter.  That seemed realistic enough for me to believe that Mundi connected those 2 things to come to the conclusion that the reporter Effie may have been murdered in episode 1.  

And I guess Mary told him that the touch-wannabe had cut off her toes?  Because otherwise, how would Mundi know that? 

I didn't remember the murdered woman from the first episode (?) that Frank said was not a Maladie victim.  I certainly did not remember Mary talking about the woman who cut off her toes.  Other than Frank looking curiously at the toeless foot did he know for sure that the hanged woman wasn't Maladie?  The next thing we saw was him filling in Effie's name on the death report.  I feel like the writers took short cuts to show us he figured it out, but without any evidence that he did so.  He jumped from "this woman has no toes" to "the body is Effie" without any steps in between.

[Chicago Redshirt]

10 hours ago, Haleth said:

Galanthi?  What/who are the Galanthi?  The people in the spaceship?  Whatever is inside that blue orb?  Why have we never heard the name before?  Did I miss an episode?

I love Penance but did she and her side forget Maladie is a raving lunatic who murdered several people?

Like everyone else, I was put off by Galanthi having not been mentioned before this episode and then it being used like it was the secret word on Pee-Wee's Playhouse. 

There's something to be said for Penance's point of view: breaking the rules against public execution of Maladie isn't about justice for Maladie's actual crimes. It's about trying to send a message that it's open season on the Touched. Now the way to answer that is probably not to confirm the Muggles' worst fears about the Touched by causing a public breakout of one of the most clearly dangerous people ever. But what can you do?

I think the division would have made more sense if Amalia was the "by any means necessary we should free Maladie, especially because I have a personal connection to her" person, and Penance was the "are you daft, woman? She personally tried to kill me and Mary" woman.

3 hours ago, Bill1978 said:

I honestly thought the guy was dead, was it meant to be shocking a reveal that he lived (and it was explained in the 'missing' episode) or did I miss something from the actual previous episode that indicated he was alive?

I believe that we were told that Odium (sp?) was left alive and we actually saw him walking about in previous episodes.

14 hours ago, peridot said:

I'm wondering about another thing - is Maladie actually crazy? She was about to be committed in the first episode and now she can impersonate a reporter?

Good question. She obviously CAN act normal for at least 10-15 minutes. I would much prefer the character if her crazy is an act she puts on for drama/her personal LOLs and we get breaks from Drusilla/Riveresque babble than to have her really be Drusilla/Riveresque who can feign sanity for 10 minutes.

15 hours ago, CouchTater said:

Regarding that scene when Mundi first investigated the dead body, I always wondered why he was so quick to rule out Maladie as the killer.  From what I remember he noted the misspelled world angle (instead of angel).  But why would that rule Maladie out?  Does Mundi know for a fact that she is an excellent speller?  Or was it the pig's blood that ruled out Maladie?

Frank commented that "Maladie knows how to spell." One of her key words involved in her killing is "angel" -- at least, in so far as she talks about stuff she seemingly talks about angels a lot. And so on the surface, for her to misspell that as "angle" and for her to target a victim who is very different from her traditional targeting of doctors would suggest that it's not a real Maladie kill. But with the power of hindsight, we now know that Maladie was working an angle -- kill a reporter so she could take her place and publish her manifesto to enrage people and kill them for wanting to gawk at her execution. 

[MissLucas]

26 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Frank commented that "Maladie knows how to spell." One of her key words involved in her killing is "angel" -- at least, in so far as she talks about stuff she seemingly talks about angels a lot. And so on the surface, for her to misspell that as "angle" and for her to target a victim who is very different from her traditional targeting of doctors would suggest that it's not a real Maladie kill. But with the power of hindsight, we now know that Maladie was working an angle -- kill a reporter so she could take her place and publish her manifesto to enrage people and kill them for wanting to gawk at her execution. 

All of which adds further weight to the question of how crazy she really is. She must have known that she'd sentenced to death (no brainer) and that the execution would be public, although this was against current practice. She must have scouted out the venue for said execution, seen the iron rails and have them wired plus placed the *insert proper term* box in the ground. How did she pull that off? Or did she bribe the contractor who was given the job to prepare the prison court yard for a public execution? Where did she get the funds? Where the knowledge to do that?

Is her Turn being able to channel Danny Ocean?

[Bort]

For that matter, how did Maladie impersonate the reporter in the first place? None of the other reporters/cops at the station knew what the real Effie looked like? Maladie was able to write well enough to submit articles and get them published? Really?

[Chicago Redshirt]

34 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

All of which adds further weight to the question of how crazy she really is. She must have known that she'd sentenced to death (no brainer) and that the execution would be public, although this was against current practice. She must have scouted out the venue for said execution, seen the iron rails and have them wired plus placed the *insert proper term* box in the ground. How did she pull that off? Or did she bribe the contractor who was given the job to prepare the prison court yard for a public execution? Where did she get the funds? Where the knowledge to do that?

Is her Turn being able to channel Danny Ocean?

When you have Hypno Guy in your crew, pretty much anything is possible 

4 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

For that matter, how did Maladie impersonate the reporter in the first place? None of the other reporters/cops at the station knew what the real Effie looked like? Maladie was able to write well enough to submit articles and get them published? Really?

It's a fanwank but there's nothing to suggest that Real!Effie would have interacted much with the cops. A woman writer back in Victorian England probably would have not normally been on the crime beat, or so I would think. And it seems fair that Real!Effie would not necessarily worked out of a newsroom. Also, Maladie can always have used Hypno Guy to smooth any rough edges with the paper or the cops.

[Stuffy]

I think Frank already knew about the toeless girl. When True was walking around looking at his research up on the walls of his office, there was a section of Maladie’s accomplices. I remember seeing Bonfire Annie and the other hypno guy. I’d have to go back to see if the toeless woman was on there, but there were definitely other people. 

Edited May 11, 2021 by Stuffy

[tennisgurl]

I am so glad that I'm not the only one who was confused by the whole Gelati thing, I really thought that I had missed a scene or two where Amalia told everyone (and us) about what the hell the Gelati is. It was so weird, everyone at the orphanage is saying this word over and over again like we should know what it means and we can certainly guess but I would like to know for real, I have no clue why they didn't show us the scene where Amalia told Penance at least. I have really loved this show and this episode had a lot of good moments, but it felt like the weakest episode so far, mainly because of it feels like we missed an episode in between this one and last weeks episode, and the whole debate about Maladie was really confused. 

So we have the mysterious Gelanti, something that all the characters know about now and talk about like we should know about it even though we don't, and we also have Amalia and Cousens starting their affair up again out of nowhere. The last time they talked about it it seemed it happened once in a moment of passion and he regretted it but now they're back at it again suddenly, even though the last time they talked about it he was saying how unfair it was to his wife. Amalia couldn't care less about adultery though, either because Amalia just doesn't care, or maybe because where she comes from they don't have monogamy or marriage in the ways that we do, so this isn't a big deal? Its just so random, we don't even get a scene where they decided to take up their affair again, we just cut right to boobs. Again, did we miss an episode? 

I think that Maladie was the one who set up the electricity trap and the guy who can make people believe everything he says is part of her gang and the plan she came up with for this piece of murderous performance art, but it is a bit confusing. There were basically three plots all going on at once, Maladie's plan, Massen's plan with the Beggar King, and Penance's plan, no wonder everything went to hell with so many different factions all showing up at once all trying to enact their plans, especially when half the people involved are armed and/or have superpowers. And in a way, everyone kind of got what they wanted. Maladie especially got everything she wanted, Massen gets his chaos, even if he didn't get to kill Maladie, and Maladie wasn't executed like Penance wanted, and even the woman who did die volunteered for it. Hard to see it as a win for Penance though, although it was maybe for the best that her plan was stopped before her crew could rescue Maladie. 

Which leads me to the whole big debate on whether or not everyone should save Maladie, everyone's favorite mass murderer, from the gallows. I can get where Penance is coming from, she has strong moral and religious convictions that killing anyone or letting them die is wrong, and this is clearly being made a public spectacle by Massen and the Old Men Brigade to make an example of Maladie as a Touched they can kill and to stir up anti Touched feelings among the populace, but all of this hand wringing and these long speeches about the barbarity of capital punishment (or would executing her privately be ok?) seems a little bit ridiculous when the person who is at the center of this is Maladie, a murderous psychopath who has killed tons of people for the purpose of shits and giggles and will certainly go on to kill more people as soon as she can, as she did right here in this episode. I'm sorry, but its really hard for me to be that up in arms about the killing of someone who has done so many horrible things, things we are still learning about, like the poor murdered journalist who died just to further Maladie's goals. I can get Penance's viewpoint, but I was pretty much on Amalia's side, especially as Amalia seems to be up to something way more important, whatever that happens to be. She made a lot of good points, that Maladie is a murderer who was convicted of murder by the court, that she tried to murder Penance not long ago, that she's a threat to the public at large, both Touched and otherwise, and, and this really stood out to me, if the Orphanage people break Maladie out is such a public place, everyone will think that they're a part of Maladie's gang and that they are all in this together, which will just make everyone even more fearful of the Touched. If they think that even these people that have been trying to convince everyone that they're normal respectable people are working with Maladie, they will just think the worst of the Touched even more than they already did. If Penance wanted to do this, she could have done this secretly while she was in jail, so at least this might not all become public knowledge and a massive PR nightmare for them. She was probably lucky that Maladie's plan started before their plan could even start, at least people probably wont notice that they were even around with everything else happening. And what was her plan after saving Maladie? Just let her go so that she can go back to her murder spree and making the Touched look bad by association? Keep her at the orphanage and just hope she didn't kill anyone? Lock her in the basement? Is that really more humane? She said she had a plan, but we never heard it, so how can I support it? She talked about maybe curing her of whatever is wrong with her, which actually might be the bigger ethical debate, that Maladie is mentally ill and not totally in control of her faculties, so killing her for things she did while sick is wrong, but I don't even know how much that is true. Maladie might be crazy in a Whedon kind of way, but she seems pretty in control of what she's doing, even if her goals don't make a lot of sense yet. Of course Maladie didn't die, no way are they getting rid of her this early, but I really wish it hadn't been in this weird convoluted way with this weird ethical debate. 

Its always one step forward two steps back with Auggie and Penance. Things were going well for them at first, he has even been helping Amalia with her plan and learning about everything (all happening in that other episode we never saw) but then he sided with Amalia over Penance in their quickly escalated conflict, so that is certainly going to make date night awkward. I don't blame him, he is apparently a vital part of Amalia's plan that we don't know about yet which sounds a lot more important than jailbreaking a psychopath, but Penance is not going to be happy.