S01.E04: You Don't Hunt, You Don't Eat

[peachmangosteen]

Quote

Kate, reeling from the lawsuit, prepares her defense and finds friendship in an unlikely source. The annual Wallis hunting trip becomes the setting for an important first meeting.

Airs May 4th.

[Spartan Girl]

Kate’s stepsister posed as someone in the therapy chat just to talk to her?! Wow. I understand why that relationship was so tense before the abduction, even if Kate initially meant well, but damn. 

I actually liked Mallory in this one. Seeing her bond with Kate over therapy and become goth girls together was enjoyable. Getting stoned and eating Dunkaroos— God bless the 90s.

Harris was a creep. Seeing him charm Kate and practically groom her, combined with his abuse in the flashbacks was sickening.

So he was keeping another girl prisoner too?

[Jx223]

I enjoyed tonight's episode. The first two episodes, the Jeanette centric one was my favorite, out of this last set this Kate one was my favorite.

I think that Kate's step-sister is interesting. I liked her even though she should have treated Kate better. Kate did try and act like a sister towards her and she did push her away. It's interesting to see her try and make it up to her after Kate was rescued by posing as one of her friends in the chat. I also think it's interesting that she is the first and possibly only person that Kate revealed that she had some sort of relationship with Martin.

Also, I thought it was interesting that Kate's mom accused Mallory of sending Kate taht letter. It's an interesting theory, Mallory does seem to really hate Jeanette now and her feelings for Kate have also changed dramatically. I could maybe see why Kate's mom would think she would go to a greater length to have Kate depend on her for friendship. 

Also, I wonder if Anabelle may be a split personality of either Martin or Kate's. Martin mentioned his father committed suicide and he had a hard time dealing with that. Maybe "Anabelle" is a split personality of his that appears from time to time to help him deal with things, especially traumatic events. Or maybe "Anabelle" is a split personality of Kate's that emerged from Kate having to deal with the trauma of being held captive/abused by Martin. 

Edited May 5, 2021 by Jx223

[LittleIggy]

I liked Mallory for the first time in this episode, too. 
I thought the protagonist of the series was going to be Jeanette, but it seems as if the protagonist will change from week to week. 
Awesome series.

[waving feather]

For some reason, this episode made me tear up and I didn't think this would happen watching this show. The fear, confusion, sadness, sweetness and bitterness from Kate in all three timelines seemed all too real. I've to say the actress playing Kate is doing a fantastic job. At the end I felt her helplessness at struggling to recall her trauma. Phew.

I was more into Jeanette's story initially because I was interested in how an awkward teen became a social butterfly and then her subsequent "downfall". But now Kate's story has me riveted.

I hope this show has a satisfying conclusion. It would have been a pity if the build up is good but the ending doesn't deliver.

[BingeyKohan]

I wonder if this show is going to run out of annual events to revisit!

[Spartan Girl]

23 minutes ago, waving feather said:

I hope this show has a satisfying conclusion. It would have been a pity if the build up is good but the ending doesn't deliver.

Me too. There have already been way too many shows that let me down because they couldn’t stick the landing.

[SnarkEnthusiast]

It took me a minute to realize who the stepsister was and it's a little weird she wasn't referenced/shown before, but I guess they explained she was at her mom's. I get the rivalry, but even if she's only there every other weekend (though it seemed to be alternating weeks which would make more sense for their dynamic), if their parents married when they were 5/6, they likely met in preschool. I don't really buy that type of frosty animosity from her unless there was a huge blowup or (more realistically) if the marriage had happened in middle/high school, which would've better aligned with the storyline they're giving us. Kate said they never really interact. So the stepsister has just been sulking around or glowering at Kate since age 4? When she presumably lives there half the time? That doesn't track. I'm interested to see how her possible impending hookup with Jeanette's brother plays out, though.

Shockingly, Mallory scored my only laugh of the episode with "Wow, you're even worse than you'd think you would be!" She was, dare I say, borderline tolerable for the first time? I was very interested in her dynamic with Kate. Sure it's codependent, but it feels much more affectionate and genuine as opposed to Mallory's friendship with Jeanette and Vince, which is basically bullying. I thought Olivia Holt brought a much easier, more relaxed performance out of Mallory's actress that made Mallory feel like a real person for the first time instead of a zany caricature. They make wonderful scene partners and I was surprised how much Kate cares for Mallory. I love that Kate is just genuinely sweet and loving. Their friendship also has heavy lesbian undertones, but I know they won't go there because Vince fills their gay quota, which is disappointing lol.

I didn't miss Jeanette at all and I'm kind of reluctant to switch back to her. Kudos to the show for making the queen bee the soft, stealth protagonist and subverting the whole "pity the nerd girl" trope. I also think it's a cool twist that Jeanette's "unpopularity" is more a result of her own insecurities and apparent resentments as opposed to being bullied by Kate or anyone else. The trailer implied that Kate was perhaps snobby and ignored Jeanette, when really it's just Jeanette's own perverse fixation on a casual acquaintance. Especially creepy given Kate's attempts to befriend her.

[mandymax]

I'd thought at first that Annabelle might have been a split personality of either Kate's or Martin's - but the way Kate looked directly at her mother when beginning the "ghost story" and saying that it was about a little girl named Annabelle who was the victim of everything her parents did to her, I'm wondering if Annabelle actually has something to do with Kate's mom.

I also caught Kate's explanation at the end that she was the only person who knew what happened to her - "the other person didn't make it out alive."  Not "HE/MARTIN didn't make it out alive," or "he/Martin was killed," but somehow inferring that a whole separate person was there and was on the brink of escape or rescue but died.

 

[LittleIggy]

I thought Mallory’s funniest line was when she turned Kate’s mom’s diss of her around and called mom an “old lady.” 😆

[CrazyDog]

This show is so confusing, and I'm here for it. Whatever the ending, this is show that will definitely require a re-watch. 

I agree that Kate is definitely not the stuck up rich girl that would normally be the stereotype, but I am really hoping there's more to Jeannette's story too. I don't 100% believe that Jeannette is the super obvious villain, and Kate the hero. Obviously, Kate has suffered trauma. I don't think there's any doubt about that. But there's more there.

Martin is a creep, but even his character was interesting this episode. The show continues to imply assault, and Kate's trauma suggests that, but he also seems terrified to be around Kate and he's extremely nervous with the whole situation. Whatever the motive for kidnapping Kate, I think someone else is involved and there are at least additional motives. 

Are all the supplies in the basement for Kate, or was there really another victim? Was that towards the end of her captivity?

Were the basement windows barred, but not covered? 

Kate's comment about her and Martin needing to adjust / figure out their "roles" was interestingly worded.

The "allies" of the family seemed a little hesitant about offering unwavering support. 

We know Martin was shot, and the show sure wasn't shying around from showing Kate and her mom as a great shots. Really curious about the details of the rescue and how Kate was found.

Did someone kill Martin the night before she was found, and that drew the cops to investigate? I haven't re-watched, but I saw a comment that someone ran out of one of the houses (not Vincent) when the gun was fired during the night scene. Will have to check it out.

Kate's campfire story shows she definitely blames those around her for bringing Martin into their inner circle - and only Dad seems to have any guilt, sympathy or compassion for Kate at all. Mom has a complete lack of empathy.

I still don't care for Mallory, and I swear the therapist reminded me so much of her. It was weird.

The stepsister kind of came out of nowhere. Maybe her intentions with trying to get close to Kate are good, but Kate is just surrounded by lies and manipulation. 

[tennisgurl]

Every episode the plot thickens even more. I feel like the Jeanette episodes are more mysterious, as we try to figure out what kind of person Jeanette is and if she really did see Kate, while Kate episodes are more emotional. You just get this sick feeling in your stomach as the creep vice principle starts grooming her even with her family and friends around, and then her dealing with her terrible trauma in the later summers is just so emotionally gripping. You can really feel her struggle as she tries to process what happened to her, Olivia Holt is just such a compelling actress. I do think she saw someone, but I am still sure it was Jeanette or if she just mistook someone else for her in her trauma. 

We find out this week that Kate has a step sister, who I like even if she was unfairly mean towards Kate and her attempts to be sisters, and is only now realizing she was wrong to treat Kate badly. We can probably guess why Ashley might not like Kate and be annoyed by her attempts at bonding with her, that maybe she feels like Kate and her mom stole her dad or that her dad traded her in for this blond haired blue eyed southern belle of a new daughter, or just that she hates Kate's mom so she doesn't like Kate by association, and while its understandable that she doesn't like Joy (Joy sucks) its too bad that its taken this horrible event to get her to reach out to her step sister, Kate is a really sweet girl even if she seems like a mean girl from a distance. 

Mallory becoming best friends with Kate now that she hates Jeanette is interesting, and its also quite interesting that Joy accused Mallory of sending the note so that Kate will need her even more. I feel like Mallory definitely knows more then she is letting on. Joy also seems excited to use this as an excuse to reignite her hate on for Cindy and the Turners, I feel like the feud between the moms is going to end up playing into things. I still am looking at the idea that it was one of the moms, either Cindy, who wanted Jeanette to keep her new Queen Bee status with Kate gone, or Joy, who wanted to keep Kate quiet about the affair. Or some other reason, but I do wonder if Kate saw her mother abandon her and was so horrified that she mentally replaced her with Jeanette to deal with it. 

[starri]

Wow, Kate's mother is AWFUL.

[KaveDweller]

5 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

I thought Mallory’s funniest line was when she turned Kate’s mom’s diss of her around and called mom an “old lady.” 😆

That was hilarious. Normally I would think it was a bratty thing for a kid to say, but Kate's mom totally deserved it.

I understood the tension between Kate and her step-sister in 1993. Based on the look from Ashley when their dad referred to "his girls", I think she had some resentment about her father remarrying and being so close with Kate while she isn't there. It seems like she is trying to make up for it in later timelines.

I really liked seeing Kate and Mallory's friendship build and more of Kate in captivity. It looked like when Mark filled the basement with supplies he was doing it so that he wouldn't have to go down as much to feed her, and that he planned to keep her there for a long time. But it is interesting, because you would think if he was keeping her in the basement it was so that he could come look at her and presumably sexually abuse her in some way. What else would be his motive for keeping her down there? 

One question I had. The scene with Jeanette's brother and Ashley on the swings, where we find out she is "Claire from Physics" seemed to be in 1994. But I thought the scene where we saw Jeanette gave her brother that message was in 1995. So did I just mix up my timelines or are we supposed to think that those two are still friends after the lawsuit is filed?

Other question. Why does Kate's screenname end in 79? I thought it was her birth year, but if she was born in 79 then in 1993 she would have been 14. But we know Jeanette was 15 then, and didn't she say she was a year behind Kate in school?

[Anela]

I thought maybe more than one girl would be able to overwhelm him, but then I remembered the women who were rescued from a house in Cleveland, eight years ago. Kate didn’t seem to be chained up, though.  No wonder she wouldn’t eat, since that’s how he drugged her.  

I also thought it might be a split personality, or maybe someone was right about a woman helping him. 

 

[KaveDweller]

12 minutes ago, Anela said:

I thought maybe more than one girl would be able to overwhelm him, but then I remembered the women who were rescued from a house in Cleveland, eight years ago. Kate didn’t seem to be chained up, though.  No wonder she wouldn’t eat, since that’s how he drugged her.

I think they made a Lifetime movie about that. The women had been conditioned to not leave the house that they stopped trying to escape. 

My initial thought is that it does look like you could get out of that basement window or at least signal someone. But the psychological trauma obviously plays a big role. Plus everything looks easier when you're just sitting on the couch. 

[BingeyKohan]

Anytime I hear Kate’s mom talk I feel like I’m watching Bless the Harts.

So this episode we had three new ‘characters’ introduced (the surprise stepsister, Berenice4, and Annabelle) ... though at least one and maybe two of those identities are avatars/constructs. Interesting!

I don’t know why they had to go to the police station and sit in an interrogation room just to hear they weren’t doing anything about Jeanette based on Kate’s word and the necklace.

[Anela]

2 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I think they made a Lifetime movie about that. The women had been conditioned to not leave the house that they stopped trying to escape. 

My initial thought is that it does look like you could get out of that basement window or at least signal someone. But the psychological trauma obviously plays a big role. Plus everything looks easier when you're just sitting on the couch. 

Last week, someone mentioned that she could have broken the mirrors, and stabbed him with the glass. That never occurred to me, and I'm not stuck in that basement. 

[Ambrosefolly]

2 hours ago, BingeyKohan said:

So this episode we had three new ‘characters’ introduced (the surprise stepsister, Berenice4, and Annabelle) ... though at least one and maybe two of those identities are avatars/constructs. Interesting!

I wasn't surprised by the stepsister but was kind of shocked that the writers remembered that Kate's step dad mentioned daughters not daughter in a previous episode. That bodes well for the rest of the series if their attention to detail is that good.

It all could be true of Jeanette: she is a sociopath, she was at the house while Kate was trapped their, she looked in Kate's direction, but also that she telling the truth & didn't see Kate but Kate only thought that Jeanette locked gaze with her. 

As much of a hard ass Joy is, I kind of felt sorry for her and especially her step dad when Kate blamed the adults for putting her in the path of Martin. They probably were as taken in by Martin as Kate was and Martin probably used his influence to throw the parents off the trail the year Kate went missing. Maybe it is a good thing they are incorporating that flaw in Kate: she seems to be incredibly hard on people. It is natural she is acting that due to her trauma and being a teenager , but seems somewhat unreasonable at times. The step-sister for example. I can understand the step-sister having a big chip on her shoulder. Both of her parents are alive, but once Joy got her hooks into Rod, it killed the dream of her parents getting back together, so Kate gets to enjoy Ash's Dad full-time while she is forced to share him during her visits. 

[waving feather]

2 minutes ago, Ambrosefolly said:

As much of a hard ass Joy is, I kind of felt sorry for her and especially her step dad when Kate blamed the adults for putting her in the path of Martin.

I don't feel bad for Kate's mother at all. She didn't put Kate in the path of Martin directly but because of how dismissive and verbally abusive she was to Kate, Kate felt there's no one to confide in for her issues. Her step-sister also shunned her when she needed someone to talk to. Her boyfriend and her friends also seemed fairly shallow then and she felt won't be able to relate to what she is going through. So at that time, Martin seemed like a wise older brother figure who understood her feelings. She could have used therapy even then but I'm sure Joy would frown upon that too and shame her for it.

Kate being frosty towards her step-sister in '94 (?), I understood because the damage (literally) was already done to her. I can also understand her step-sister's bitterness earlier on; she felt that her father was sort of taken from her and her mother. But for Kate, it's too little too late that Ashley is reaching out now. She wasn't there for her when she needed her before.

Just a sad situation for all but I don't feel sorry for Kate's mother because she was being  big hypocrite scolding Kate about adultery accusations while she herself was having an affair.

[BingeyKohan]

I can't remember, was there an indication of when the events of the episode took place (within their summers)? We're past July 4, right? It wouldn't really seem like a hunting season, and I couldn't tell if they actually were hunting or just skeet shooting -- but then the episode is called "you don't hunt, you don't eat" ... and I don't think they were serving clay. (I digress)

I'm mostly curious because I wonder when the original kidnapping will be revealed to have happened. Given that the show is oriented in summertime and their pattern of sticking with annual events, I wonder if Kate would have been kidnapped around Labor Day, and maybe never made it to school the year that Martin actually started on the job as assistant principal.

ETA: schools tend to start earlier in the South but I don't remember if they did back then. 

Edited May 6, 2021 by BingeyKohan
an afterthought

[Andirea1987]

Maybe who she saw was Annabelle and not Jeanette.

[Blue Plastic]

20 hours ago, CrazyDog said:

This show is so confusing, and I'm here for it. Whatever the ending, this is show that will definitely require a re-watch. 

I agree that Kate is definitely not the stuck up rich girl that would normally be the stereotype, but I am really hoping there's more to Jeannette's story too. I don't 100% believe that Jeannette is the super obvious villain, and Kate the hero. Obviously, Kate has suffered trauma. I don't think there's any doubt about that. But there's more there.

Martin is a creep, but even his character was interesting this episode. The show continues to imply assault, and Kate's trauma suggests that, but he also seems terrified to be around Kate and he's extremely nervous with the whole situation. Whatever the motive for kidnapping Kate, I think someone else is involved and there are at least additional motives. 

Are all the supplies in the basement for Kate, or was there really another victim? Was that towards the end of her captivity?

Were the basement windows barred, but not covered? 

Kate's comment about her and Martin needing to adjust / figure out their "roles" was interestingly worded.

The "allies" of the family seemed a little hesitant about offering unwavering support. 

We know Martin was shot, and the show sure wasn't shying around from showing Kate and her mom as a great shots. Really curious about the details of the rescue and how Kate was found.

Did someone kill Martin the night before she was found, and that drew the cops to investigate? I haven't re-watched, but I saw a comment that someone ran out of one of the houses (not Vincent) when the gun was fired during the night scene. Will have to check it out.

Kate's campfire story shows she definitely blames those around her for bringing Martin into their inner circle - and only Dad seems to have any guilt, sympathy or compassion for Kate at all. Mom has a complete lack of empathy.

I still don't care for Mallory, and I swear the therapist reminded me so much of her. It was weird.

The stepsister kind of came out of nowhere. Maybe her intentions with trying to get close to Kate are good, but Kate is just surrounded by lies and manipulation. 

Somehow I don’t think Kate is going to appreciate Ash’s chat room deception!  Why is Ash doing that?  Does she really think she is helping?

10 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

I wasn't surprised by the stepsister but was kind of shocked that the writers remembered that Kate's step dad mentioned daughters not daughter in a previous episode. That bodes well for the rest of the series if their attention to detail is that good.

It all could be true of Jeanette: she is a sociopath, she was at the house while Kate was trapped their, she looked in Kate's direction, but also that she telling the truth & didn't see Kate but Kate only thought that Jeanette locked gaze with her. 

As much of a hard ass Joy is, I kind of felt sorry for her and especially her step dad when Kate blamed the adults for putting her in the path of Martin. They probably were as taken in by Martin as Kate was and Martin probably used his influence to throw the parents off the trail the year Kate went missing. Maybe it is a good thing they are incorporating that flaw in Kate: she seems to be incredibly hard on people. It is natural she is acting that due to her trauma and being a teenager , but seems somewhat unreasonable at times. The step-sister for example. I can understand the step-sister having a big chip on her shoulder. Both of her parents are alive, but once Joy got her hooks into Rod, it killed the dream of her parents getting back together, so Kate gets to enjoy Ash's Dad full-time while she is forced to share him during her visits. 

Yeah, but that’s not Kate’s fault. I can see her being mad at her dad and definitely Joy, but if they’ve been married for years she’s had time to adjust to the reality.

I agree that Kate is hard on people, though I don’t feel bad for Joy because she’s a terrible mother in every way.  I can see why Kate feels she was replaced, and she kind of was, but also her friends and boyfriend thought she was probably dead, so of course they would emotionally “let go” and form new relationships without Kate in the picture. Plus their relationships with Kate were probably a lot shallower than Kate thought and that’s gotta hurt.  Joy is the one who should have been still mourning her daughter and thrilled to have her back.

Interesting scenes between Mallory and Joy.  Mallory’s comments were funny but for once Joy might be right about something regarding the “liar” letter.

 

[mandymax]

12 minutes ago, Blue Plastic said:

Somehow I don’t think Kate is going to appreciate Ash’s chat room deception!  Why is Ash doing that?  Does she really think she is helping?

Could Ashley also have been abducted at some time?  Or have had a boyfriend of her mother's take an inappropriate interest in her at some point?  Maybe she can relate better to Kate now?

[RedInk]

18 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

Other question. Why does Kate's screenname end in 79? I thought it was her birth year, but if she was born in 79 then in 1993 she would have been 14. But we know Jeanette was 15 then, and didn't she say she was a year behind Kate in school?

That’s been a weird disconnect for me, too, but only because I’m Jeanette’s exact age. She’d have to be a year older than Kate, and Kate would be just entering high school, but they’ve shown her to be homecoming queen. It’s odd because the show is so detail oriented. 

[Nicmar]

3 hours ago, BingeyKohan said:

I can't remember, was there an indication of when the events of the episode took place (within their summers)? We're past July 4, right? It wouldn't really seem like a hunting season, and I couldn't tell if they actually were hunting or just skeet shooting -- but then the episode is called "you don't hunt, you don't eat" ... and I don't think they were serving clay. (I digress)

I'm mostly curious because I wonder when the original kidnapping will be revealed to have happened. Given that the show is oriented in summertime and their pattern of sticking with annual events, I wonder if Kate would have been kidnapped around Labor Day, and maybe never made it to school the year that Martin actually started on the job as assistant principal.

ETA: schools tend to start earlier in the South but I don't remember if they did back then. 

i thought hunting season begins in the fall. I'm from Texas so school year begins Mid to late August and still does.

[BingeyKohan]

1 minute ago, Nicmar said:

i thought hunting season begins in the fall. I'm from Texas so school year begins Mid to late August and still does.

right, that's what i was thinking - my theory was this episode happened after July 4 but before the start of school, which would make sense if they were only skeet shooting and not actually hunting (altho then the episode title still doesn't totally make sense) ... but not sure what you would hunt in the dog days of summer like that. So I still wonder at what point the 93 timeline will catch up to Kate's disappearance.

I was also curious about Kate's comment about them still learning their roles (to her therapist, about her and Martin, or so it seemed). It almost implies there was a different mastermind and Martin was also playing a role he had to get used to. When she tried to bolt and he stopped her it sort of seemed like he was protecting her from what would happen if she escaped more than angrily keeping her from escaping. Though it also seemed like, when he told her - this part will be over soon - that he'd done it before or seen it done before with someone else, since he knew the timeline they were on. 

[SoMuchTV]

10 minutes ago, BingeyKohan said:

right, that's what i was thinking - my theory was this episode happened after July 4 but before the start of school, which would make sense if they were only skeet shooting and not actually hunting (altho then the episode title still doesn't totally make sense) ... but not sure what you would hunt in the dog days of summer like that. So I still wonder at what point the 93 timeline will catch up to Kate's disappearance.

They showed the date in the opening credits.  I think this one was July something-teenth.  I think all the episodes have a graphic near the beginning that says "the events in depicted here happened on approximately (month-day) in 1993, 1994, and 1995" if I'm remembering correctly.

[BingeyKohan]

23 minutes ago, SoMuchTV said:

They showed the date in the opening credits.  I think this one was July something-teenth.  I think all the episodes have a graphic near the beginning that says "the events in depicted here happened on approximately (month-day) in 1993, 1994, and 1995" if I'm remembering correctly.

oh yeah, geez. I sort of knew that but I look away at that part because it makes it feel like a dramatic reenactment of a true crime story which to me demeans the overall storytelling aesthetic here.

ETA I even sort of wonder if that pre opening info dump was a network note to avoid viewer confusion and they were forced to add it late in the production process. The actual years (if I'm remembering correctly) are displayed with a thought-out design aspect of big type on screen, right? So they could have just used the actual date in those sequences vs now how they kind of tell us the timeframe twice.

Edited May 6, 2021 by BingeyKohan
clarification

[mcgkgm]

2 hours ago, RedInk said:

That’s been a weird disconnect for me, too, but only because I’m Jeanette’s exact age. She’d have to be a year older than Kate, and Kate would be just entering high school, but they’ve shown her to be homecoming queen. It’s odd because the show is so detail oriented. 

I'm glad someone mentioned it, because it's been bugging me as well.  I was born in 1980 so had friends with 1979 birthdays as well and was like - wait, we were a lot younger than these people are supposed to be back then!  It just now occurred to me though with the talk about Annabelle... fictional or not, maybe she was younger?

[Blue Plastic]

When Kate started mentioning “Annabelle,” all I could think of was that movie about a possessed doll (not Chuckie). Wonder if they did that on purpose!

[KaveDweller]

6 hours ago, Blue Plastic said:

I agree that Kate is hard on people, though I don’t feel bad for Joy because she’s a terrible mother in every way.  I can see why Kate feels she was replaced, and she kind of was, but also her friends and boyfriend thought she was probably dead, so of course they would emotionally “let go” and form new relationships without Kate in the picture. Plus their relationships with Kate were probably a lot shallower than Kate thought and that’s gotta hurt.  Joy is the one who should have been still mourning her daughter and thrilled to have her back.

Kate's friends/boyfriend did kind of replace her. But at the same time, it seems like they all dropped Jeanette as soon as Kate was back, so she got them back. Jamie definitely ended things with Jeanette and we haven't seen those girl friends hanging out with her either. Jeanette was basically a substitute for them. It makes Jamie and those girls seem pretty shallow.

3 hours ago, BingeyKohan said:

oh yeah, geez. I sort of knew that but I look away at that part because it makes it feel like a dramatic reenactment of a true crime story which to me demeans the overall storytelling aesthetic here.

ETA I even sort of wonder if that pre opening info dump was a network note to avoid viewer confusion and they were forced to add it late in the production process. The actual years (if I'm remembering correctly) are displayed with a thought-out design aspect of big type on screen, right? So they could have just used the actual date in those sequences vs now how they kind of tell us the timeframe twice.

The opening reminds me a bit of what they used to do on 24. I think it is meant to enforce the idea that the three timelines are exactly a year apart.

[Bobcatkitten]

I am so confused on the timeline. Do we know about what month/day that Kate was taken? It says she was gone a year but we are seeing three different years in the same time area and she isn't in the basement. Help!

[SoMuchTV]

8 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

I am so confused on the timeline. Do we know about what month/day that Kate was taken? It says she was gone a year but we are seeing three different years in the same time area and she isn't in the basement. Help!

No, I don’t think we know that yet. We know from the latest episode that she hadn’t yet been abducted as of mid July 1993, and from the first episode that she was rescued on or around Jeanette’s birthday in (June?) 1994. So not a full year, but close to it?
 

I’m hoping someone who was paying closer attention (or rewatching) will come back and update the episode threads with the date they showed at the beginning of each. 

[KaveDweller]

3 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

No, I don’t think we know that yet. We know from the latest episode that she hadn’t yet been abducted as of mid July 1993, and from the first episode that she was rescued on or around Jeanette’s birthday in (June?) 1994. So not a full year, but close to it?
 

I’m hoping someone who was paying closer attention (or rewatching) will come back and update the episode threads with the date they showed at the beginning of each. 

Here are the dates, I checked on Hulu. The message they show always says "Approximately" when giving the date, whatever that means. I am guessing Kate goes missing soon, and they just are rounding up when they say a year.

Episode 1: June 21st

Episode 2: June 26th

Episode 3: July 4th

Episode 4: July 15th

[mamadrama]

I feel like "Annabelle" could be Kate's coping mechanism, Martin's gun (the one his dad used), or Martin himself (in a PSYCHO/Norman Bates' mother kind of way). 

[mamadrama]

17 hours ago, Blue Plastic said:

When Kate started mentioning “Annabelle,” all I could think of was that movie about a possessed doll (not Chuckie). Wonder if they did that on purpose!

It made me think of the kidnapping of Annabelle Huggins. 

[mamadrama]

23 hours ago, BingeyKohan said:

 

ETA: schools tend to start earlier in the South but I don't remember if they did back then. 

They've started mid August+/- for at least the past 40 years. There may be a variance of days, but it's not a significant difference. Some schools might start a little earlier if they're expecting a bad winter. It gives a cushion for makeup days. 

[BingeyKohan]

14 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

I feel like "Annabelle" could be Kate's coping mechanism, Martin's gun (the one his dad used), or Martin himself (in a PSYCHO/Norman Bates' mother kind of way). 

this is kind of mind-blowing. Maybe he had an alter and maybe gave Kate an alter role to play as well - it would be wild if he wanted her to pretend to be Jeanette while Jeanette was out in the world pretending to be Kate (so she really just saw herself in the mirror, as Jeanette, and imagined it was Jeanette seeing her) I don't see how all that would work but it's fascinating. 

[izabella]

I'm stuck on the necklace at this point.  Where, exactly, did Kate find the necklace?  She said she saw Jeanette through the window and they locked eyes.  That would mean Jeanette was outside.  So where was the necklace? 

[FozzyBear]

2 hours ago, mamadrama said:

I feel like "Annabelle" could be Kate's coping mechanism, Martin's gun (the one his dad used), or Martin himself (in a PSYCHO/Norman Bates' mother kind of way). 

I’m going with Annabelle is the gun. There was a gun shot, we know that. Martin is dead, we know that. 

[SoMuchTV]

46 minutes ago, izabella said:

I'm stuck on the necklace at this point.  Where, exactly, did Kate find the necklace?  She said she saw Jeanette through the window and they locked eyes.  That would mean Jeanette was outside.  So where was the necklace? 

I'm pretty sure they haven't revealed yet where Kate found (or said she found) the necklace.  My impression is that it was not when she and Jeanette may or may not have seen each other - it sounds like whatever happened there was from a distance.  My speculation would be that (if it was indeed Jeanette's necklace), that she lost it during one of the times that she sneaked into the house.  Maybe Kate found it as she was leaving after being rescued, maybe it somehow got into the basement, maybe Martin gave it to her for some reason...

[Anela]

2 hours ago, mamadrama said:

I feel like "Annabelle" could be Kate's coping mechanism, Martin's gun (the one his dad used), or Martin himself (in a PSYCHO/Norman Bates' mother kind of way). 

So she shot him, and escaped?

[CrazyDog]

There's still the disconnect between the shot we the audience heard, and the escape / rescue. The gun shot was evening / night, and then we saw the news footage of Kate being escorted (I assume) out of the house in the morning. So if the gun shot we heard is indeed when Martin was killed, then maybe someone else killed him, or Kate did, but something delayed her rescue to the next day / morning.

[KaveDweller]

6 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

I'm pretty sure they haven't revealed yet where Kate found (or said she found) the necklace.  My impression is that it was not when she and Jeanette may or may not have seen each other - it sounds like whatever happened there was from a distance.  My speculation would be that (if it was indeed Jeanette's necklace), that she lost it during one of the times that she sneaked into the house.  Maybe Kate found it as she was leaving after being rescued, maybe it somehow got into the basement, maybe Martin gave it to her for some reason...

That necklace looked awfully clean for something that had been lost in a house months ago. That certainly is the most logical idea though, that Jeanette lost it in the house, Kate saw her running away, then picked up the necklace later. It didn't sound like Jeanette was actually in the basement, so maybe Kate picked it up later after Martin died.

Or maybe Kate broke into Jeanette's house to steal it to get her proof of what she saw? I do believe Kate believes she saw Jeanette, but maybe she had no proof and wanted people to believe her? I also noticed that Jeanette's mom seemed really sure Jeanette was lying about throwing out the necklace. It made me think she'd seen the necklace in Jeanette's possession recently or knew something else happened to it.

[mamadrama]

4 hours ago, CrazyDog said:

There's still the disconnect between the shot we the audience heard, and the escape / rescue. The gun shot was evening / night, and then we saw the news footage of Kate being escorted (I assume) out of the house in the morning. So if the gun shot we heard is indeed when Martin was killed, then maybe someone else killed him, or Kate did, but something delayed her rescue to the next day / morning.

When the gunshot went off, right after Vincent walked outside you can see someone else moving quickly in the upper right hand part of the screen. Could be important, or could just be a crew member who accidentally got caught in the shot, but they're definitely there. Vincent also looks over there in their direction.

I have no idea what it means.

6 hours ago, Anela said:

So she shot him, and escaped?

I don't know, but maybe? There's a long period between them hearing the gunshot (night) and Kate being rescued (day). 

[ZeeEnnui]

11 hours ago, mamadrama said:

I feel like "Annabelle" could be Kate's coping mechanism, Martin's gun (the one his dad used), or Martin himself (in a PSYCHO/Norman Bates' mother kind of way). 

Quote

11 hours ago, BingeyKohan said:

this is kind of mind-blowing. Maybe he had an alter and maybe gave Kate an alter role to play as well - it would be wild if he wanted her to pretend to be Jeanette while Jeanette was out in the world pretending to be Kate (so she really just saw herself in the mirror, as Jeanette, and imagined it was Jeanette seeing her) I don't see how all that would work but it's fascinating. 

 

ALL of this. I keep thinking back to that shot of Kate and Martin in the basement where we see them reflected in the mirrors on the wall. I felt like that had to mean something significant. This show is all about Duality - Nerdy Jeanette wasn't as innocent as she seemed, Kate's life wasn't as perfect as it appeared, etc. This town and the people in it all have a secret side to their lives that Kate's abduction threatens to blow up. I don't know if Kate's personality split or if Martin did some Norman Bates cos-play. I suspect that he may have had an accomplice (maybe it's Cindy who wanted Jeanette to ascend the social ladder?). Either way, I can't wait to find out. I love that nothing is as it seems in this show.

Edited May 8, 2021 by ZeeEnnui
Correcting character name

[peachmangosteen]

On 5/6/2021 at 2:22 PM, BingeyKohan said:

The actual years (if I'm remembering correctly) are displayed with a thought-out design aspect of big type on screen, right? 

I'm pretty sure they only did that in the first episode. 

 

[JenE4]

On 5/4/2021 at 11:16 PM, Jx223 said:

I enjoyed tonight's episode. The first two episodes, the Jeanette centric one was my favorite, out of this last set this Kate one was my favorite.

I think that Kate's step-sister is interesting. I liked her even though she should have treated Kate better. Kate did try and act like a sister towards her and she did push her away. It's interesting to see her try and make it up to her after Kate was rescued by posing as one of her friends in the chat. I also think it's interesting that she is the first and possibly only person that Kate revealed that she had some sort of relationship with Martin.

Also, I thought it was interesting that Kate's mom accused Mallory of sending Kate taht letter. It's an interesting theory, Mallory does seem to really hate Jeanette now and her feelings for Kate have also changed dramatically. I could maybe see why Kate's mom would think she would go to a greater length to have Kate depend on her for friendship. 

Also, I wonder if Anabelle may be a split personality of either Martin or Kate's. Martin mentioned his father committed suicide and he had a hard time dealing with that. Maybe "Anabelle" is a split personality of his that appears from time to time to help him deal with things, especially traumatic events. Or maybe "Anabelle" is a split personality of Kate's that emerged from Kate having to deal with the trauma of being held captive/abused by Martin. 

 

On 5/5/2021 at 12:22 PM, mandymax said:

I'd thought at first that Annabelle might have been a split personality of either Kate's or Martin's - but the way Kate looked directly at her mother when beginning the "ghost story" and saying that it was about a little girl named Annabelle who was the victim of everything her parents did to her, I'm wondering if Annabelle actually has something to do with Kate's mom.

I also caught Kate's explanation at the end that she was the only person who knew what happened to her - "the other person didn't make it out alive."  Not "HE/MARTIN didn't make it out alive," or "he/Martin was killed," but somehow inferring that a whole separate person was there and was on the brink of escape or rescue but died.

 

I really like both of your theories re Annabelle! When Kate was telling the “ghost story,” it was very clear that SHE was Annabelle, the way she described Annabelle was on this hunting trip, and these adults with marriage problems invited this monster on this trip and put Annabelle right in his path to trust him, etc. Then at the end of the episode, listening to the tapes, she was saying that on the day she was rescued, Martin came down and something was different. That did sort of imply that something was different with HIM, and could have been a split personality (there’s probably more precise psychological terminology—I think it’s not even multiple personality disorder anymore, something like dissociative disorder, maybe—but we’ll just stick with that until someone schools us otherwise), to deal with his father killing himself. And then stealing a child the same age he was when this happened, might all be related to that. But then the way Kate said she “met” Annabelle but didn’t remember who she was—that led me back to thinking that SHE is “Annabelle” because you wouldn’t really remember your own split personality, but you’d sure as hell remember every detail if someone was “Norman Bates’s Mothering” right in front of you!  (Exception if she was drugged again, but didn’t mention that.) So, that coupled with the hunting story that she is Annabelle, I think something was “different” that last day and she “Annabelled” her own escape. Maybe Martin had a gun—despite him saying he’s skittish around guns—and brought it down to the basement to force her to do something, and this would be “different” for him to have a gun. And when she thought her life was in danger, “Annabelle” came out with Kate’s shooting skills, and Kate was the one who shot him. I think the 2 people who know what happened are Martin and Kate, and he’s dead. But, the tapes helped Kate remember that “Annabelle” is still holding onto some of the memories she repressed. Martin saying the same thing about himself was a bit of a red herring—but moreso his “mirror image” experience to Kate’s experience, which seems to be the big underlying theme of this show, so why not with him, too?

As for Ashley, I think she has good intentions—at least after the kidnapping. It sounds like she regrets pushing Kate away and feels guilty that she didn’t protect her, like Berenice 4 protected Cleopatra. Jeanette’s brother gave her the puppet idea of how he connected with his sister, and Ash was snooping on Kate’s computer and saw she’s in that survivor chat group, and wants to be there for her, since Kate won’t open up to her otherwise. That was a very dramatic speech about history forgetting Berenice 4, and how she was beheaded for her brave actions. So no doubt Ash’s story is going to go much deeper. She’ll probably find out some of Kate’s deepest secrets, and then faces a difficult decision about looking out for her family, that she doesn’t entirely feel is her “family,” or supporting her friend’s family that they’re at odds with. Ashley and Jeanette’s brother might end up in a Romeo and Juliet type of scenario.

ETA: uh, just looked up Berenice IV. And now I need to retract my previous statement about Ash having good intentions. She killed her own family members to get the thrown, and it was her own father that had her beheaded when they went to war against each other! Sooooo...well, okay, I expect a lot more family drama to come with Ash’s storyline!

https://steemit.com/history/@stephmckenzie/badass-women-of-history-berenice-iv-of-egypt

Edited May 8, 2021 by JenE4

[jewel21]

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I'm pretty sure they only did that in the first episode. 

 

No, every episode has had the opening being words typed on screen with the date and the three different years the episode is taking place in.