Nitpicking

[stan4]

I think she left after the Jason thing because Richard again had gone against her and partnered with him, then he risked their entire financial future to capitalize the company and didn't tell her, and finally he went back to Lloyd despite everything.  The not telling her part was just another straw on the camel's back of his ongoing deception and disrespect.

[scarynikki12]

15 hours ago, MatildaMoody said:

Somehow, I don't believe he did. In that episode where Emily saw his mother kissing the guy in the tracksuit, Richard made it a point to tell Lorelai that he was uncomfortable with his wife and mother getting along. And he was relieved when Emily came down complaining about how she knows perfectly well how to serve tea. 

The part of that scene that really infuriates me is when Lorelai sits down next to Richard and quietly defends Emily's outburst and then it turns out that Richard wasn't even listening! Lorelai is being diplomatic but she lays it out by telling him that Emily blew up as a result of how Trix treats her, and it's not only incredibly kind but a demonstration of her love for her mother, and Richard just ignored her.  Yes, the image was a funny one and I'm glad he wasn't mad at Emily, but he needed to acknowledge and handle Trix's behavior and he never did.  Not until she turned it on him. 

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

The part of that scene that really infuriates me is when Lorelai sits down next to Richard and quietly defends Emily's outburst and then it turns out that Richard wasn't even listening! Lorelai is being diplomatic but she lays it out by telling him that Emily blew up as a result of how Trix treats her, and it's not only incredibly kind but a demonstration of her love for her mother, and Richard just ignored her.  Yes, the image was a funny one and I'm glad he wasn't mad at Emily, but he needed to acknowledge and handle Trix's behavior and he never did.  Not until she turned it on him. 

Me too. I always love when Lorelai defends Emily because they do have a such a difficult relationship. Lorelai nicely pointing out why Emily blew up and how Trix is hard on her. And he wasn't listening. Yes, she was saying everything that you kept wanting someone to say to Richard (although he should notice) but he didn't care. 

[Taryn74]

7 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

The part of that scene that really infuriates me is when Lorelai sits down next to Richard and quietly defends Emily's outburst and then it turns out that Richard wasn't even listening! Lorelai is being diplomatic but she lays it out by telling him that Emily blew up as a result of how Trix treats her, and it's not only incredibly kind but a demonstration of her love for her mother, and Richard just ignored her.  Yes, the image was a funny one and I'm glad he wasn't mad at Emily, but he needed to acknowledge and handle Trix's behavior and he never did.  Not until she turned it on him. 

I never got the impression Richard wasn't listening to her, just that he wasn't upset by Emily's outburst the way Lorelai assumed he must be. 

[MatildaMoody]

On 10/10/2018 at 2:04 PM, Katy M said:

The cat's sex makes absolutely no difference to the story one way or the other.

Which is why it was posted in the nitpicking thread.

[JaggedLilPill]

Richard could be a real ass to Emily. Yesterday UP had 3x01 on, and he's such a massive dick to both Emily and Lorelai when he finds out about Chris and Sherry. If Chris found someone who would let him be a father to his own kid?! That's some revisionist history, Richard. I wasn't aware Lorelai denying Chris a romance meant she was keeping Rory from him/stopping him from being part of her life.

Which brings me to my nitpick: the show's constant waffling and wavering when it comes to Chris. Is he a deadbeat dad or is the poor schlub who wanted to marry Lorelai for 20 years (eyeroll) who she kept stringing along? Is he the irresponsible kid who got Lor pregnant at 16 or poor long suffering Chris who is blocked from being a father at all times by Lorelai? 

Sorry. Some of my anti-Chris is showing. I know. 

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, JaggedLilPill said:

Richard could be a real ass to Emily. Yesterday UP had 3x01 on, and he's such a massive dick to both Emily and Lorelai when he finds out about Chris and Sherry. If Chris found someone who would let him be a father to his own kid?! That's some revisionist history, Richard. I wasn't aware Lorelai denying Chris a romance meant she was keeping Rory from him/stopping him from being part of her life.

Which brings me to my nitpick: the show's constant waffling and wavering when it comes to Chris. Is he a deadbeat dad or is the poor schlub who wanted to marry Lorelai for 20 years (eyeroll) who she kept stringing along? Is he the irresponsible kid who got Lor pregnant at 16 or poor long suffering Chris who is blocked from being a father at all times by Lorelai? 

Sorry. Some of my anti-Chris is showing. I know. 

Oh mine too. I hated how Richard and Emily let him off completely for doing nothing raise and support his daughter because he offered to marry Lorelai and she turned him down. Ah, no he still had responsibility to his daughter. He chose to completely bail. I hate that everyone lets him off the hook even Lorelai. I hate that she ends up getting involved and marrying him in season seven. That is something I could never see Lorelai doing after he was never there for Rory the entire time she was growing up and never took an interesting Rory. I can't see her ever dating or marrying anyone who treated her daughter the way he did.   I'm not sure I buy Christopher desperate to marry Lorelai. Sure he always only seem to come sniffing around to be with Lorelai. But all he ever does is talk about when were teens and try to sleep with her. If he really wanted to be with her it wouldn't be that hard. Getting a job and keeping it and taking a real interest in Rory probably would have worked. To me he was a deadbeat, lazy, asshole who refused to grow up or take any responsibility for anything especially his daughter. His response to no was to completely bail on raising his daughter, leave town, rarely visit her, definitely never come visit her at her home for fifteen years, zero child support, and doing whatever he wanted. He didn't even know Rory enough to know she wasn't into sports. He didn't let either one know that he moved to Boston (and yet somehow kept the same apartment), had a new number, job, and girlfriend. I could go on and on about my hate of Christopher. 

[Frelling Tralk]

16 hours ago, JaggedLilPill said:

Richard could be a real ass to Emily. Yesterday UP had 3x01 on, and he's such a massive dick to both Emily and Lorelai when he finds out about Chris and Sherry. If Chris found someone who would let him be a father to his own kid?! That's some revisionist history, Richard. I wasn't aware Lorelai denying Chris a romance meant she was keeping Rory from him/stopping him from being part of her life.

 

 I think Richard and Emily took Christopher’s side because in a way they all saw Lorelai as being the one to bail, and her leaving for Stars Hollow was seen as a massive rejection of them all. I know that Lorelai left a note for her parents, but I don’t think it was ever clarified if she said anything to Christopher before running away? It’s certainly all on Chris that he didn’t step up to the plate later on, but I can actually understand why a 16/17 year old Christopher could well have not seen it as a great plan to try and track her down after she had just turned down his proposal and fled without a word to him. 

Edited October 19, 2018 by Frelling Tralk

[Katy M]

3 minutes ago, Frelling Tralk said:

 I think Richard and Emily took Christopher’s side because in a way they all saw Lorelai as being the one to bail, and her leaving for Stars Hollow was seen as a massive rejection of them all. I know that Lorelai left a note for her parents, but I don’t think it was ever clarified if she said anything to Christopher before running away? It’s certainly all on Chris that he didn’t step up to the plate later on, but I can actually understand why a 16/17 year old Christopher could well have not seen it as a great plan to try and track her down after she had just turned down his proposal and fled without a word to him. 

Plus, I always got the feeling that Lorelai never really wanted him around anyway.  She was fine with holiday visits and phone calls.  Yes, she wanted Rory to feel loved by her father.  But, do we really think the Lorelai that we saw over the course of the series wanted anybody else to have a say in how Rory was raised?  Like at all?  I doubt it.  She was happy with their arrangement.  It also allowed her to play a bit of the martyr, which I think she also liked.

[Frelling Tralk]

36 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Honestly that’s how I’ve always seen it too, she fled to get away from the people telling her what to do, she would have absolutely hated if Chris had turned up in Stars Hollow and demanded equal custody when Rory was a baby, she was weirded out enough when Sherry suggested a 17 year old Rory spending something like a weekend with them over Xmas, her first thought is immediately on how that cuts into her own time with Rory. Giving him access to Rory is one thing that Lorelai is right that she never fought him on, but it wasn’t only Christopher who seemed to see Lorelai and Rory as a package deal, Lorelai too seemed to believe that he was only capable of being a full time father if he moved in with them and they became a proper family. Look too at when Sherry becomes pregnant, it’s automatically accepted that Christopher needs to get back together with her if he wants to do it right this time, there’s never any consideration given to him still staying with Lorelai while sharing custody of his child with Sherry.

I think that’s why Richard and Emily cut Christopher so much slack on what a terrible father he was, everyone seems to have that same attitude that Lorelai prevented him from being a fully involved Dad after she turned down his proposal, so apparently you can only be a father if you’re living in the same house as your child 

Edited October 19, 2018 by Frelling Tralk

[JaggedLilPill]

Quote

Plus, I always got the feeling that Lorelai never really wanted him around anyway.  She was fine with holiday visits and phone calls.  Yes, she wanted Rory to feel loved by her father.  But, do we really think the Lorelai that we saw over the course of the series wanted anybody else to have a say in how Rory was raised?  Like at all?  I doubt it.  She was happy with their arrangement.  It also allowed her to play a bit of the martyr, which I think she also liked.

 

57 minutes ago, Frelling Tralk said:

Honestly that’s how I’ve always seen it too, she fled to get away from the people telling her what to do, she would have absolutely hated if Chris had turned up in Stars Hollow and demanded equal custody when Rory was a baby, she was weirded out enough when Sherry suggested a 17 year old Rory spending something like a weekend with them over Xmas, her first thought is immediately on how that cuts into her own time with Rory. Giving him access to Rory is one thing that Lorelai is right that she never fought him on, but it wasn’t only Christopher who seemed to see Lorelai and Rory as a package deal, Lorelai too seemed to believe that he was only capable of being a full time father if he moved in with them and they became a proper family. Look too at when Sherry becomes pregnant, it’s automatically accepted that Christopher needs to get back together with her if he wants to do it right this time, there’s never any consideration given to him still staying with Lorelai while sharing custody of his child with Sherry.

I think that’s why Richard and Emily cut Christopher so much slack on what a terrible father he was, everyone seems to have that same attitude that Lorelai prevented him from being a fully involved Dad after she turned down his proposal, so apparently you can only be a father if you’re living in the same house as your child 

Oh I definitely agree with both of these sentiments. I do think Lorelai was pretty much fine with being a single mom and she preferred it that way. Truthfully, everyone (save for Rory because she was the kid in this situation) shares in the blame for the dynamic IMO. Emily and Richard for sticking with the "if you had only gotten married" narrative, Chris for really not stepping up 90% of the time, and Lorelai for enabling it and even justifying it in a way with framing it as they have to be a couple/live together = Chris to be a father to Rory.

Because Chris didn't have to be romantically linked to Lorelai to parent Rory. I also kind of believe Chris used it as an excuse, the oh, well, I can't be with Lorelai yet so I can't really parent Rory. Likewise, he didn't have to stay with Sherry to raise Gigi. So, as much as I believe Lorelai preferred being the sole caregiver to Rory, I also think Chris preferred the situation the way it was too. Go and come as he pleased, have sympathy from Emily and Richard, etc. 

Really there isn't an excuse for Chris being so absent. Not showing up at her high school graduation. He's barely mentioned in Rory's freshman year of college. Basically Chris was convenient plot device for the P's to use when they wanted to have strife between E/R/L or LL. Otherwise, Chris who? 

[Taryn74]

1 hour ago, Frelling Tralk said:

Giving him access to Rory is one thing that Lorelai is right that she never fought him on, but it wasn’t only Christopher who seemed to see Lorelai and Rory as a package deal, Lorelai too seemed to believe that he was only capable of being a full time father if he moved in with them and they became a proper family.

Ding, ding, ding!

It was painfully obvious IMO in Haunted Leg (and others, but that was the most glaring) that Lorelai thought the only way for Chris to really be a father to Rory, was to be involved with her romantically as well.

[JaggedLilPill]

1 minute ago, Taryn74 said:

Ding, ding, ding!

It was painfully obvious IMO in Haunted Leg (and others, but that was the most glaring) that Lorelai thought the only way for Chris to really be a father to Rory, was to be involved with her romantically as well.

It definitely was! 

It's a very annoying dynamic that still grates to this day because, effing Chris man. 

We pretty much posted at the same time lol,  but in my previous response, I said I do agree it was shared blame between Lorelai/Chris and Emily/Richard. Like all four have a very skewed way of seeing the situation. 

I just loathe Chris with the fire of a thousand suns so all episodes surrounding him and Lorelai and their relationship make me enraged! LOL.

Which is why the majority of s7 remains a dumpster fire, except for the post-CL eps that is.

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, JaggedLilPill said:

 

Oh I definitely agree with both of these sentiments. I do think Lorelai was pretty much fine with being a single mom and she preferred it that way. Truthfully, everyone (save for Rory because she was the kid in this situation) shares in the blame for the dynamic IMO. Emily and Richard for sticking with the "if you had only gotten married" narrative, Chris for really not stepping up 90% of the time, and Lorelai for enabling it and even justifying it in a way with framing it as they have to be a couple/live together = Chris to be a father to Rory.

Because Chris didn't have to be romantically linked to Lorelai to parent Rory. I also kind of believe Chris used it as an excuse, the oh, well, I can't be with Lorelai yet so I can't really parent Rory. Likewise, he didn't have to stay with Sherry to raise Gigi. So, as much as I believe Lorelai preferred being the sole caregiver to Rory, I also think Chris preferred the situation the way it was too. Go and come as he pleased, have sympathy from Emily and Richard, etc. 

Really there isn't an excuse for Chris being so absent. Not showing up at her high school graduation. He's barely mentioned in Rory's freshman year of college. Basically Chris was convenient plot device for the P's to use when they wanted to have strife between E/R/L or LL. Otherwise, Chris who? 

There really isn't. If Christopher actually wanted to co-parent Rory there wasn't anything Lorelai could do. If he had to he could get a lawyer and get joint custody. I do think Lorelai wouldn't want that and would rather to raise Rory herself. But she's also never had to worry about it. It was obvious early on if not all the years that followed Christopher had no interest in doing any raising of Rory. Lorelai in Christopher Returns to Christopher visiting kind of sums up what Christopher's visits probably were always like. She is quick to remind Rory that he's not going to stay and tell her to enjoy the however long he's here, that he's always going to come and go. She knows he's lying about his job. When she's talking to Sookie about Christopher (which is still weird to me because its coming off like its the first time they've ever talked about Christopher even though they've been friends for years there's no way they wouldn't have talked about Christopher) how he says he wants to be more apart of Rory's life Lorelai says its great if its true. She sounds like any single parent who's stuck doing the bulk of the parenting while the deadbeat comes and goes, that is always full of crap when he claims to want to do more and can't keep a job. But still wants her daughter have whatever good memories or moments with her dad. That's all she'll get. No matter what Christopher says he will always let Rory down. When he shows up in season two its not to be with Rory but to impress his new girlfriend who is really the one interested in being a parent. That's also when the phone calls started. Well, those lasted long didn't they? Inviting Rory for some time during the Christmas season was probably Sherry's idea. Yes Lorelai did freak out but after talking with Rory she realized she was being stupid which Rory helped her to see with all her comments about Mommy Sherry and asking if Lorelai wanted to become Jewish and take over all those holidays. We never did find out if Rory went I lean towards no. Christopher and Sherry got married at some point, no word on whether Rory was there. Which given how Christopher managed to talk Lorelai out of it in season seven when they eloped I wouldn't be surprised that he never invited Rory to his first wedding either (to be fair I blame Lorelai just as much for not having Rory there when they eloped.). Or when he learned Sherry got pregnant instead of waiting to tell Rory, he bails and asks Lorelai tell Rory after he promised Rory this time he really would be here. He could have waited to talk to her. He chose not to. Then he assumed because Rory wasn't taking his calls it was Lorelai's doing keeping Rory from him when that wasn't true. But it apparently never occurred to him that Rory could possibly be upset at him breaking his promise to be there and they'd be a family to run back to his pregnant girlfriend and be a dad to that baby and not her. I really don't get is Lorelai's flirting with him and stuff I might by having lingering feelings in the first year or so but not years later with all the crap he's pulled. All the times he's let Rory down. His coming and going leaving her to have to deal with Rory's feelings each time he takes off again. Never calling when he says he's going to and never doing anything he says he's going too. That part I really don't understand. 

[ghoulina]

I'm of the opinion that it was more coming from Chris - he didn't really want to parent Rory if he couldn't be involved with Lorelai. He wanted the whole picture. Otherwise he was just going to sulk, go off and do his own thing. I never got the impression that Lorelai actually blocked him from being a father in any way. I think he tried to claim that, as an excuse for his lack of presence. But, c'mon, all that money his family had? If he wanted to be involved THAT badly, he could have hired a lawyer and got custody. But I don't think he'd ever do that, because his ultimate end goal was Lorelai. 

[clack]

I don't believe Chris was written as a deadbeat dad. He was originally conceived as a glamorously elusive, rebel-without-a-cause traveling the world on a motorcycle, who has now matured a bit and is ready to settle down. He is meant to be a desirable possible end-game for Lorelai.

The reason he's not at important family functions -- birthdays, graduations, etc. -- is because either the actor is not available, or the show doesn't have the budget to pay him for one brief scene. I don't think we're meant to see Christopher as this terrible person who can't be bothered to show up at Rory's graduation.

[andromeda331]

10 hours ago, ghoulina said:

I'm of the opinion that it was more coming from Chris - he didn't really want to parent Rory if he couldn't be involved with Lorelai. He wanted the whole picture. Otherwise he was just going to sulk, go off and do his own thing. I never got the impression that Lorelai actually blocked him from being a father in any way. I think he tried to claim that, as an excuse for his lack of presence. But, c'mon, all that money his family had? If he wanted to be involved THAT badly, he could have hired a lawyer and got custody. But I don't think he'd ever do that, because his ultimate end goal was Lorelai. 

This does make a lot of sense. I don't get the impression Lorelai blocked him as a father. He does seem to use that as excuse even though all he'd have to do is get a lawyer. I do still wonder if he ever actually did want to marry Lorelai or not.  He seemed only interested in sleeping with her and talking about when they were kids and teens. He never seem to notice or connect with the 32 year old Lorelai. If he really wanted to be with Lorelai it wouldn't have been that hard he'd have to get and keep job, and taken interest in Rory. He chose not to do that until season two when he does but that's for Sherry. Because Sherry's interested in kids at the time. If she hadn't been or been interest in anything else Christopher probably wouldn't have come around. 

[Frelling Tralk]

21 hours ago, clack said:

The reason he's not at important family functions -- birthdays, graduations, etc. -- is because either the actor is not available, or the show doesn't have the budget to pay him for one brief scene. I don't think we're meant to see Christopher as this terrible person who can't be bothered to show up at Rory's graduation.

I do think actor availability played a big part, the reason that Chris isn’t in the picture much after his efforts to be a better father in season 2 is because David Sutcliffe ended up on another show and was difficult to schedule. The reason that the viewers see Chris differently from Amy does is possibly because she didn’t take into account that his continued absence in Rory’s life made him look like a jerk and inconsistent with his resolve to be a better father in season 2, whereas she viewed it more as just unfortunate that they couldn’t use the actor as much as they wanted too 

For example his absense from Rory’s graduation is often brought up as evidence of saying volumes about just how little he cared about Rory, but from the writers perspective it probably wasn’t intended to say anything of the sort, they just couldn’t get the actor to make an appearance that week. IMO that’s why they didn’t make his absences during the series an important part of his charactisation and how other characters react to him. Whereas, if that season 3 episode was deliberately intended to put Chris in a bad light, then you likely would have got Rory’s grandparents and Lorelai expressing disappointment that he didn’t show up for his daughter, and it would have been dealt with more. Instead there’s mention that Chris couldn’t be there and so they were taping the ceremony for him, the same as the phone calls between Rory and her Dad that we were later told had began again with Rory having regular contact with him offscreen, so presumedly Amy thought that occasional references like that were enough to cover for them not being able to actually use the actor 

At least the vibe I got is that we were meant to view Chris as trying harder with Rory over the course of the series because he did genuinely regret losing out on her early years, I think he was meant to be way more consistent with wanting to be a better father than came across onscreen. For example in early season 3 he was outraged and blaming Lorelai when Rory wouldn’t take his weekly phone calls. Not Christopher’s finest moment granted, but still it does suggest that yes he did give a damn about his contact with Rory, and was pretty fired up when he thought that Lorelai was trying to keep her from him. So yeah, whether the writers always succeeded in that is another topic, but I do think that we were meant to view Christopher as sincere in wanting to be a better father and make up for those years, part of Sherrie’s appeal even was getting another chance to be fully involved in raising GiGi from the outset. If they were able to sign David Sutcliffe on as a regular for season 3 then it would have likely gone very differently, and I suppose it’s another sign of the weakness of Amy as a writer when it comes to making actual onscreen events a factor in the canon, as opposed to how she had visualised it going in her head 

Edited October 21, 2018 by Frelling Tralk

[Bringonthedrama]

10 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

This does make a lot of sense. I don't get the impression Lorelai blocked him as a father. He does seem to use that as excuse even though all he'd have to do is get a lawyer. I do still wonder if he ever actually did want to marry Lorelai or not.  He seemed only interested in sleeping with her and talking about when they were kids and teens. He never seem to notice or connect with the 32 year old Lorelai. 

This. If she had actually blocked him as a father while Rory was growing up, she would not have been so determined that Chris keep his word/not disappoint Rory for the presentation of young ladies coming out to society event. She reminded him that Rory had never asked him for anything. She seemed genuinely really worried that Rory was going to get hurt by Chris deciding to bail on the event.  I think he wanted to believe that he was a better man than he actually was, hence the insistence that he had been wanting to marry Lor for years. Someone who genuinely wants to marry this woman and be a father to his child does not date woman after woman (there are references to that in GG dialogue), show up to see his kid here and there and flirt with or try to sleep with the kid's mother, and be callous about holding a job. When he did get his life together, it sounded like Sherry gave him an ultimatum.  Well, I don't think it was ever Lorelai's job to give ultimatums, make demands, help him get his life together (as Emily seemed to think Lorelai should have done), etc. Lorelai was Rory's mother, not Chris's.  Chris was an adult, so it was his own responsibility to make choices that would enable him to really woo Lorelai properly if he wanted to do so, to have a steady job with decent income, and to both financially and emotionally support Rory.  I still believe that the reason Richard and Emily blamed Lorelai for not marrying Christopher/forming a 'normal family' as high society dictates is because they never got over their anger,hurt, and embarrassment that Lorelai ran away. The scenes with R&E and L&C seemed to indicate that R&E were totally taken in by Chris's surface charm and liked that he came from a "respectable family." They did not care about the quality of person he was. The scene where Emily visited Chris briefly while his daughter Gigi was a toddler really spells it out. She says basically "You were always weak, but you came from a good family and I know you loved Lorelai. So here's your chance to get her back." I'm thinking, really?! So because he's charming, the father of your granddaughter, and you approve of his parents, you think your only daughter should settle for him?? You're doing this because you don't like that Luke runs a diner and doesn't come from high society - despite having at least some knowledge of what Luke means to Lorelai and Rory, and how he has been there for them over the years.  Wow, that doesn't say much about your love for Lorelai.

[shron17]

22 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:

I think he wanted to believe that he was a better man than he actually was, hence the insistence that he had been wanting to marry Lor for years. Someone who genuinely wants to marry this woman and be a father to his child does not date woman after woman (there are references to that in GG dialogue), show up to see his kid here and there and flirt with or try to sleep with the kid's mother, and be callous about holding a job.

Chris proposed and Lorelai said no, because we don't know each other as adults.  Rory asked him to visit more and call more.  Yet instead of taking that as an invitation to move closer and be more involved in their lives, to get to know Lorelai as an adult, he starts dating someone who lives on the east coast and only moves closer and gets a job when she gives him an ultimatum.  This shows me pretty clearly what type of person Chris is.  Lorelai's mistake was falling for his line yet again when he told her he and Sherry were splitting up.   

[MatildaMoody]

A couple of minor nitpicks: 

Why are Rory and Lorelai buying Dean and Lyndsay a wedding gift in "Chicken or Beef"? Just a couple of episode prior, Rory gave Dean a catalog so that he and Lindsay could pick out something they wanted and she would buy it for them. 

In the next episode - I think it’s The Fundamental Things Apply - Rory finds Lorelai planting moldy bulbs in the yard. After their back and forth, Rory starts screaming about something crawling up her leg. They get it off and then both of them immediately lie down on the ground. Why would they risk other creepy crawlies on them or in their hair after they just freaked out about it literally seconds before?

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, MatildaMoody said:

Why are Rory and Lorelai buying Dean and Lyndsay a wedding gift in "Chicken or Beef"? Just a couple of episode prior, Rory gave Dean a catalog so that he and Lindsay could pick out something they wanted and she would buy it for them. 

Maybe he didn't pick anything out, and/or maybe she considered that their engagement gift.  You seem to have to gift at every step nowadays.

[chessiegal]

3 hours ago, MatildaMoody said:

Why are Rory and Lorelai buying Dean and Lyndsay a wedding gift in "Chicken or Beef"? Just a couple of episode prior, Rory gave Dean a catalog so that he and Lindsay could pick out something they wanted and she would buy it for them. 

Lazy writing. This show had tons of it.

[Kohola3]

Small nitpick but why would Lorelai have a picture of herself with her leg in a cast on display in her bedroom?  I have no pictures of myself on display anywhere except in family situations.  And certainly none where I have been maimed in some fashion.

[chessiegal]

My husband and I both have pictures of just ourselves alone in our bedroom. Some old, some newer. Just favorite pics.

[Katy M]

So, last night the episode where Christopher first shows up is on.  Lorelai and Luke make plans to paint his diner on Friday.  Moments later Christopher shows up and Rory suggest he stay with them. Shortly thereafter, Rory is making up the couch for him.  She's going to do homework, and he is appalled (OK, probably not appalled) that she is going to do homework on Friday night.  So, wait, it's Friday?  Did they go to Friday night dinner in between.  And, if they had no Friday night dinner that night and they had bought the paint, why not paint the diner that night instead of making plans for a week from then.  Lorelai didn't know about Chris when they were making the painting plans.  Anyway, Emily calls the next day while they're all at the diner and invites him to the next Friday night dinner.  It really seems she just got the info that he was in town, so I have to believe there was no FDN.  Sure, Lorelai wouldn't bring it up, but Rory was pretty excited, so she would have.  Plus, Emily would have made a snarky comment if she had just seen the girls the night before and they hadn't told her he was in town.  And, the very next scene they're showing up at Emily's house.  What did Chris do all week hanging out at Star's Hollow while Rory's in school and Lor's at work?  Inquiring minds want to know?  

And, while I'm at it, Emily takes what was most likely what would have been their dinner out of the refrigerator and puts some of it on a plate for Rory and just hands it to her to eat, and Rory starts eating.  I couldn't see exactly what it was, but I'm thinking it was probably food that should have been hot.  Microwaves are probably too pedestrian for the Gilmores, though.  

Edited November 6, 2018 by Katy M

[Kohola3]

And while we are on the subject of painting the diner, at the end Lorelai is trying to coax Luke into getting curtains and he refuses all while standing in front of the window with.....wait for it....curtains on the window.

 

[txhorns79]

Quote

This does make a lot of sense. I don't get the impression Lorelai blocked him as a father. He does seem to use that as excuse even though all he'd have to do is get a lawyer. I do still wonder if he ever actually did want to marry Lorelai or not.  He seemed only interested in sleeping with her and talking about when they were kids and teens. He never seem to notice or connect with the 32 year old Lorelai. 

I don't think Lorelai blocked Chris as a father.  Having said that, I don't think she was much interested in Chris having a regular role in Rory's life either.  Yes, Lorelai always said the right thing to Chris about wanting him to be a father to Rory, and never trying to keep Rory from him, but I don't think Lorelai would ever have accepted him as a co-parent.  I just look at how Lorelai dealt with the idea of Max being a stepfather to Rory, by basically telling Max that Rory was either "done" or was not his responsibility.  She didn't want to even give an inch on her control.     

[shron17]

On 11/7/2018 at 2:53 PM, txhorns79 said:

I just look at how Lorelai dealt with the idea of Max being a stepfather to Rory, by basically telling Max that Rory was either "done" or was not his responsibility.  She didn't want to even give an inch on her control.     

But.  There is a huge difference between allowing your child's father to have a regular role in her life and expecting a stepparent to be a co-parent role when she's already 16.  Most people in such a real-life situation would expect to be more of a friend than a parent to a kid even a few years younger.

[clack]

Stars Hollow : international tourist destination within commuting distance of New York City, or typical small town? Big enough to have a high school, yet so small that only a couple of dozen people -- most of whom seem local small business folks -- attend the monthly town meeting. Where are the wealthy weekend refugees from the city?

[txhorns79]

Quote

But.  There is a huge difference between allowing your child's father to have a regular role in her life and expecting a stepparent to be a co-parent role when she's already 16.  Most people in such a real-life situation would expect to be more of a friend than a parent to a kid even a few years younger.

My point was about Lorelai wanting to maintain control over Rory in both situations, not that being a new stepfather to a teenager is the same as being the father to someone from the time of their birth.  I'm saying that Lorelai was getting ready to marry Max, and she didn't even have a discussion of what his role would be vis a vis Rory until Max forced the issue.  Even then, the discussion was that Lorelai would be in charge and Max could send Rory to her if something came up, which, of course, renders him a bystander in his own home.  That kind of says everything about Lorelai's desire for control in that situation. 

[readster]

8 hours ago, clack said:

Stars Hollow : international tourist destination within commuting distance of New York City, or typical small town? Big enough to have a high school, yet so small that only a couple of dozen people -- most of whom seem local small business folks -- attend the monthly town meeting. Where are the wealthy weekend refugees from the city?

How about only having once place of worship where both a priest and a rabbi switch out for daily services. Let's also not forget where a Town Selectmen has say over everything in the city and a mayor who does nothing. 

[Katy M]

17 hours ago, clack said:

Stars Hollow : international tourist destination within commuting distance of New York City, or typical small town? Big enough to have a high school, yet so small that only a couple of dozen people -- most of whom seem local small business folks -- attend the monthly town meeting. Where are the wealthy weekend refugees from the city?

The size of Stars Hollow has always bugged me.  But, I live in New England and have never attended a town meeting. Sometimes I've watched them on the Public access channel and there's never more than 20-30 people there.  And we have a thriving downtown (at least as thriving as downtowns get nowadays). 

[Taryn74]

27 minutes ago, Katy M said:

The size of Stars Hollow has always bugged me.

Same.  I know to someone used to huge cities a population of 10,000 seems tiny, but as someone surrounded by towns of 500 or less it just makes me roll my eyes.

 

9 hours ago, readster said:

How about only having once place of worship where both a priest and a rabbi switch out for daily services.

I think this is the one that bugs me the most.  I grew up in a town with 312 on the population sign, and we had no less than half a dozen churches.  Granted, I'm in the Bible Belt, but come on.  We're supposed to believe there's only a handful of people who want to attend regular services in a town the size of Stars Hollow?

[chitowngirl]

And why would they be using the space on the same day? Jewish services and Christian services are different days.

[junienmomo]

22 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

My point was about Lorelai wanting to maintain control over Rory in both situations, not that being a new stepfather to a teenager is the same as being the father to someone from the time of their birth.  I'm saying that Lorelai was getting ready to marry Max, and she didn't even have a discussion of what his role would be vis a vis Rory until Max forced the issue.  Even then, the discussion was that Lorelai would be in charge and Max could send Rory to her if something came up, which, of course, renders him a bystander in his own home.  That kind of says everything about Lorelai's desire for control in that situation. 

Lorelai was very insecure in her parenting. Sometimes I wonder if she felt she had to be “right” about Rory all the time when others could see. Insecurity is understandable given her upbringing. Max pressured her for clarity when she was already on the doubting side of marrying him. That pressure gave her insight on her willingness to actually be a family with him. 

Even in season six she was surprised by and didn’t agree with Luke having contact with Rory on his own. It was supposed to be her way until he said “I’m in the middle here!” She did get that he had his own relationship with her daughter. But that plot point fizzled. Too bad.

Sometimes the writers put so many plot points in they couldn’t address any of them effectively.

[shron17]

On 11/8/2018 at 4:23 PM, txhorns79 said:

My point was about Lorelai wanting to maintain control over Rory in both situations, not that being a new stepfather to a teenager is the same as being the father to someone from the time of their birth. 

And my point is that any parent is going to feel differently about the relationship their child has with someone who becomes their stepparent at 16 and the one with their other biological parent.  Lorelai always encouraged Rory to include Chris in her life whenever she wanted and not stay mad at him when he messed up.  She rarely spoke negatively about him and always reassured her that he loved her very much.  We never saw her controlling his calls or visits and she quickly told him it was up to Rory whenever consulted be it about visiting, a Sidekick, or passing along his millions.  It wasn't Lorelai's fault that Chris reneged on a lot of his promises and left it to her to mop up when he did.

[andromeda331]

25 minutes ago, shron17 said:

And my point is that any parent is going to feel differently about the relationship their child has with someone who becomes their stepparent at 16 and the one with their other biological parent.  Lorelai always encouraged Rory to include Chris in her life whenever she wanted and not stay mad at him when he messed up.  She rarely spoke negatively about him and always reassured her that he loved her very much.  We never saw her controlling his calls or visits and she quickly told him it was up to Rory whenever consulted be it about visiting, a Sidekick, or passing along his millions.  It wasn't Lorelai's fault that Chris reneged on a lot of his promises and left it to her to mop up when he did.

No, that was all Christopher's fault. 

[chitowngirl]

But she did throw a hissy fit when Christopher wanted to see her on Christmas break and Lorelai had a tantrum about how it was her time of the year with her. Um Lorelai-every day all year long is your time with her!!

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

But she did throw a hissy fit when Christopher wanted to see her on Christmas break and Lorelai had a tantrum about how it was her time of the year with her. Um Lorelai-every day all year long is your time with her!!

Yes, but Rory helped her see how ridiculous she was being with her remarks about her territory being threatened and joking about Mommy Sherry and asking if she wanted to take over the Jewish holidays.  

[elang4]

I think the thing with Lorelai is that she always expected Rory to be on her side and always think the way she thinks so when Rory calls her out on stuff and wants to do stuff that’s not really Lorelai’s thing, she’s shocked and she acts out in a really petty way.

[MatildaMoody]

17 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

But she did throw a hissy fit when Christopher wanted to see her on Christmas break and Lorelai had a tantrum about how it was her time of the year with her. Um Lorelai-every day all year long is your time with her!!

I kind of see her point though. I mean obviously, Chris had never spent a Christmas with Rory before or even asked to do so. Would it be too much to ask that if Chris wants to spend Christmas with Rory (for the first time ever) that they come to Rory - at least for the first one? Why should Rory and Lorelai's traditions be upended because now Chris wants to play daddy to impress his girlfriend? 

[Katy M]

3 hours ago, MatildaMoody said:

Chris had never spent a Christmas with Rory before or even asked to do so.

I thought they spent every Christmas together.  At least pre-series.  In the birthday party episode, Lorelei said that he called once a week, they saw him at Christmas and sometimes Easter.  And the one where he comes back, she told Sookie that she hadn't seen him since last Christmas.

[scarynikki12]

I got the impression that they had dinner together in Hartford when he came to town. That allowed them to catch up and then Chris would return to wherever while Lorelei and Rory went home. I didn’t get the impression that it was even on Christmas but during the general season so his visits didn’t actually interfere with any traditions. 

[shron17]

Seeing someone at Christmas doesn't necessarily translate to spending the holiday with them.  It didn't sound like Rory had ever spent the night under Chris's roof before.  I don't blame Lorelai for being caught a bit off guard if it was the first time and seemed to only come about because Chris had moved in with Sherry.  When you've done all the parenting for 17 years and then have to deal with the other parent's expectations, it's bound to feel a little unfair.  Where was Chris was Rory was 5 or 10 and Lorelai would have welcomed some free time?

[andromeda331]

Would Chris had even asked if he wasn't with Sherry? His phone calls and suddenly visiting Rory more all started because of Sherry. To impress her because at the time Sherry wanted kids and seemed really interested in the fact Christopher had one. I doubt it. If Sherry hadn't been interested in who knows when they would have heard from Christopher again. 

[MatildaMoody]

On 11/13/2018 at 2:15 PM, Katy M said:

I thought they spent every Christmas together.  At least pre-series.  In the birthday party episode, Lorelei said that he called once a week, they saw him at Christmas and sometimes Easter.  And the one where he comes back, she told Sookie that she hadn't seen him since last Christmas.

I assume they saw each other at Christmas - but Santa's Secret Stuff proved they never actually spent and celebrated Christmas together. He knew nothing about any of their Chrismas traditions and it was obvious that the holiday things they do every year were completely foreign to him. I just really doubt that it would have ever even occurred to Chris to ask Rory to spend the holiday with him if Sherry hadn't been the one pushing for it. 

Edited November 15, 2018 by MatildaMoody

[scarynikki12]

Just rewatched Help Wanted from season 2 and I have a question: how big is Richard's new office?  It looked to be one outer office where clients would wait to meet him that included the coffee pot and secretary's desk and then one inner office where Richard would hold his meetings and take his calls.  Yet the launch cocktail party that Emily throws is held at his office and not only is catered with what looks like a temporary bar, but Emily specifically says that there's six servers and a point man.  That office is not big enough for all that. Maybe that outer office is just really big?  Maybe it has a separate kitchen area with a door (so that the caterer has a place to put the food)? 

Also, if Richard starts his own insurance consulting firm, what does bringing in Jason do exactly?  I know Jason brought his own clients but did they both consult?  Did the partnership turn The Gilmore Group into an actual insurance agency?  Did Richard continue to consult and Jason's side was an insurance agency?  They don't say when the partnership happens, they just focus on Richard's midlife crisis, Jason secretly dating Lorelai, and setting up Emily and Richard getting separated. 

[blueray]

I've always thought they had the party in a catering place. But maybe I just missed them saying it was his office.

[scarynikki12]

It's his office.  Emily tells Lorelai that she's planning a launch cocktail party at his office, Lorelai knows how to adjust the thermostat, and, most importantly, it's the same set from earlier in the episode.