Nitpicking

[FictionLover]

20 minutes ago, lulu1960 said:

That's from The Festival of Living Art?

 

LORELAI: Same here. Rory's first jumper.

SOOKIE: Bananarama?

LORELAI: I made it out of one of my t-shirts. It was the first thing I ever made her - ever made, ever. It was post-Gilmore economy. Look how tiny.

SOOKIE: Tiny.

LORELAI: She was the most beautiful pink all over. She even smelled pink. That sounds weird. I can't describe it - that little, pink, baby smell. The first time her eyes focused on me and her little fingers reached out. . .I was someone new. She had me.

I totally missed that inconsistency!  But I did love that scene.  

[AllyB]

21 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I thought the show never really was able to justify Lorelai running away.  I can believe Lorelai was very unhappy and felt she had to go, but as I've gotten older, it always seemed so cruel to just leave a note announcing you were gone.  In the first season, Richard asks Lorelai what he and Emily did to deserve that treatment and Lorelai was mostly unable to answer.       

I think Lorelai was justified in moving out. In the Gilmore house she was essentially being forced to live as a child and a mother and something had to give. So she moved out so she could be a mother. But from what we know of Richard and Emily, what any normal person would have done in her situation, was, after a few days/weeks once she had settled, contacted her parents and work out a new adult to adult parents relationship with them. It wouldn't have been easy to establish and maintain clear boundaries at first. But eventually R&E would have come to accept Lorelai as a grown-up and stayed close to Rory. But instead Lorelai cut them off almost completely, seemingly only seeing R&E for their Christmas party. This just seems needlessly cruel on Lorelai's part because the estrangement was all just down to her immaturity.

If Emily had reacted towards Lorelai moving out in the same way that Lorelai reacted to Rory quitting Yale the estrangement would have made sense. If Emily made an ultimatum that if Lorelai didn't move back home, she was cut off, and Lorelai called her bluff then Lorelai's actions and resentment would have made sense. It's interesting actually that when Rory made 'a bad' life choice, Lorelai did react in the way that she likes to imagine her parents reacted to her.

[timimouse]

22 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I thought the show never really was able to justify Lorelai running away.  I can believe Lorelai was very unhappy and felt she had to go, but as I've gotten older, it always seemed so cruel to just leave a note announcing you were gone.  In the first season, Richard asks Lorelai what he and Emily did to deserve that treatment and Lorelai was mostly unable to answer.       

 

1 hour ago, AllyB said:

I think Lorelai was justified in moving out. In the Gilmore house she was essentially being forced to live as a child and a mother and something had to give. So she moved out so she could be a mother. But from what we know of Richard and Emily, what any normal person would have done in her situation, was, after a few days/weeks once she had settled, contacted her parents and work out a new adult to adult parents relationship with them. It wouldn't have been easy to establish and maintain clear boundaries at first. But eventually R&E would have come to accept Lorelai as a grown-up and stayed close to Rory. But instead Lorelai cut them off almost completely, seemingly only seeing R&E for their Christmas party. This just seems needlessly cruel on Lorelai's part because the estrangement was all just down to her immaturity.

I actually see where you're both coming from and I think that is where the show fell a bit short. We were told repeatedly by Lorelai how much she needed to get out of that torturous environment but I don't think we were given enough to substantiate that. Yes there were times that Richard and Emily did some pretty terrible things but these were the same people who were dealing with the embarrassment of their teenage daughter's pregnancy and they didn't shun her. She wasn't thrown out. They didn't force her to marry Christopher. Even 16 years later we see that they jump at the chance to help their daughter and granddaughter. There's no deny that as different as they were, they were loving parents. She behaved at times like they weren't. Which I think is why I liked the rift episodes so much because we got more of an insight into what Lorelai went through living there. But the total estrangement from her parents was still not completely justified from what we've seen.

8 hours ago, hippielamb said:

Having recently watched Partings, I have a nitpick about the eye surgery settlement. How the Gilmores got a settlement from Emily's doctor when her surgery was last week is a mystery. And there's no time jump to excuse it. Lorelai spends the night at Sookie's after her day with Emily, so it's less than a week later when they have Friday night dinner. In the week since the last episode, Emily has apparently recovered from her surgery, sued the doctor, reached a settlement, and has had time to commission a model for Rory's building. I usually handwave these time inconsistencies but this was in the previous episode!

I thought of this once also but this is how I justified it:
Maybe her ailment didn't need a long recovery, just some drops a few times a day for 3 days and she's good. I didn't get the impression that they sued the doctor; more like an out-of-court settlement after a threat of a lawsuit. Also, since they had already discussed donating a building to Yale in Rory's name, I figured it's fair to think that the model was pretty close to being done and the additional money hadn't been given to the school yet but Richard informed them that it would be and asked for a model?

Just my take on it. 

[txhorns79]

Quote

I actually see where you're both coming from and I think that is where the show fell a bit short. We were told repeatedly by Lorelai how much she needed to get out of that torturous environment but I don't think we were given enough to substantiate that.

One thing I wish we had seen was some real recognition from Lorelai that she deeply hurt her parents, and that the hurt they felt wasn't because she became pregnant or refused to marry Chris.  It was because she gave them the equivalent of a big middle finger on her way out the door, and for more than a decade to follow.  From what I recall, Lorelai mainly discussed how they were hurt because she didn't live up to their plans for her (i.e. in a way where she could feel sorry for herself), not because she actually did something to purposefully hurt them.  

And I completely recognize that Emily and Richard could have been the bigger people and taken steps to try and mend the rift, but I can understand why they might feel their daughter wanted nothing to do with them.        

[Taryn74]

2 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

One thing I wish we had seen was some real recognition from Lorelai that she deeply hurt her parents, and that the hurt they felt wasn't because she became pregnant or refused to marry Chris.  It was because she gave them the equivalent of a big middle finger on her way out the door, and for more than a decade to follow. 

This.  So much this.

I was thinking the other day about the S1 episode where Rory "ran away" to the grandparents' and Max was with Lorelai when she found out where Rory was.  

Quote

MAX: So?

LORELAI: She's with my parents in Hartford.

MAX: Good.

LORELAI: Good?

MAX: Bad?

LORELAI: Bad, very bad.

MAX: She's safe.

LORELAI: She's with my mother. No one is safe with my mother.

Good G-d.  There's no telling what kinds of abuse Max could have assumed she was referring to.

[junienmomo]

2 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

One thing I wish we had seen was some real recognition from Lorelai that she deeply hurt her parents, and that the hurt they felt wasn't because she became pregnant or refused to marry Chris.  It was because she gave them the equivalent of a big middle finger on her way out the door, and for more than a decade to follow.  From what I recall, Lorelai mainly discussed how they were hurt because she didn't live up to their plans for her (i.e. in a way where she could feel sorry for herself), not because she actually did something to purposefully hurt them.  

And I completely recognize that Emily and Richard could have been the bigger people and taken steps to try and mend the rift, but I can understand why they might feel their daughter wanted nothing to do with them.        

Lorelai's moving out was justified by the way she was treated by her parents. Emily was dictating how Lorelai should behave, and I'm ok with the middle finger part because Emily kept it up over the years, including the on-screen years. Leaving was an act of desperation on the part of an immature kid. Staying away was a direct result of Emily continuing to dictate Lorelai's behavior as an adult. After age eighteen it was none of their business anymore.

Emily and Lorelai were Mrs. Kim and Lane, except Lane superficially accepted her mother's rules, developing a private sphere for herself, tacitly approved by Lorelai on occasion. Lorelai didn't accept Emily's rules and left.

[junienmomo]

Two random nitpicks...

• Rory introduced Luke to a DAR person as her future stepdad, but the gossip-savvy woman didn't go directly to Emily to comment on her future son-in-law or at least ask why Emily hadn't announced it yet.
• Lorelai could have paid off the termite loan with the 75k, but we never heard about it again.

[Viqutorious]

1 hour ago, junienmomo said:

Lorelai could have paid off the termite loan with the 75k, but we never heard about it again.

I thought she used that to pay her parents back for Chilton.

my nitpick, why was Rory and not Lorelai getting trust funds? One by Gran and another by her grandparents, however they both just skipped Lorelai?  Trust funds are usually set up at a very young age and do not have "pregnancy" clauses in them. 

Edited September 22, 2016 by CheeseBurgh

[txhorns79]

Quote

Lorelai's moving out was justified by the way she was treated by her parents. Emily was dictating how Lorelai should behave, and I'm ok with the middle finger part because Emily kept it up over the years, including the on-screen years. Leaving was an act of desperation on the part of an immature kid. Staying away was a direct result of Emily continuing to dictate Lorelai's behavior as an adult. After age eighteen it was none of their business anymore.

I think Lorelai had the right to leave if she wasn't happy in her living situation.  I'm not okay with the way she handled it, and even if Emily and Richard were trying to dictate her behavior (which isn't particularly shocking for parents), they still deserved better than what they got.  As far as I know, Lorelai's contact with her parents after she left up until the pilot was limited to seeing them at holiday parties.  I don't think Emily and Richard weren't attempting to dictate anything to Lorelai during that period as they rarely saw her.   

[junienmomo]

27 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

As far as I know, Lorelai's contact with her parents after she left up until the pilot was limited to seeing them at holiday parties.  I don't think Emily and Richard weren't attempting to dictate anything to Lorelai during that period as they rarely saw her.   

Thanks for this comment. I was referring to Emily's constantly correcting Lorelai's behavior, even at holidays, which was way beyond reasonable. As I scanned the first couple of episodes to give you an example, I fell in love with S1 Emily, especially the first episodes. She was exactly as you describe, although she had a wicked wit. The later voice messages from Emily bugged me a lot.

I also found a tiny nitpick. She was supposed to choose a team sport, and while schools do have golf "teams" I don't classify it as a real team sport. I think I'm going to watch season one all over again.

[JaggedLilPill]

I agree that Emily/Richard were more hurt by the fact that Lorelai shunned them and shut them out of her life than they were about her getting pregnant and not marrying Christopher. But I think it was also somewhat about that too.

It was embarrassing for them that she got pregnant so young, and they view Lorelai as not willing to get with the program i.e. marrying Chris. "When you get pregnant, you get married." Yeah, Emily. Two sixteen year old's getting married sounds like a genius idea! I understand that was Emily and Richard's generations's mentality, but I also can't fault Lorelai for not wanting that. That being said, I can only imagine how difficult it was for Emily and Richard because despite how Lorelai views it, we know they love her. But they don't always show it the right way, so the rift is really on all of them.

It's also annoying that the narrative has Chris wanting to marry Lorelai forever and it taking 20 years for her to say yes, when what we saw in DRAE doesn't really portray it that way. Chris was in no way excited over the prospect of marrying Lorelai and moving into Gilmore house, going into business with Richard. If anything, he seemed defeated and resigned. When they are looking at Rory for the first time, again, there's no burning passionate longing to marry Lorelai. Just something he figured they had to do or should do. "I guess we should get married now." 

I don't think either of them were truly in love with each other. At least Lorelai figured that out....even if it took her getting married to him. 

[moonb]

Obviously Chris didn't have a great relationship with his parents anymore than Lorelai did with hers, but I wonder if over the years he unconsciously absorbed thinking similar to Emily's - that his life would have gone better after age 16 if he had married Lorelai and become a stable family man.  Chris's parents wanted him completely out of the Lorelai and baby problem, after all, but that was what made him a permanent outsider in the end. Lorelai's making a life on her own could have added to her dream girl status after the fact, since romantic fantasies that never happen tend to get more powerful. 

[KatWay]

Lorelai was still a teenager when she ran away. And while she didn't handle it well, I absolutely think the way it happened was on all of them. Emily & Richard weren't always consistently written, because wacky comedy & drama were used in different instances, but they absolutely had enough instances of showing parental behaviour that made me understand why Lorelai felt she had to leave. Not reaching out was mostly due to her stubbornness, but then again she had that in common with her parents. It's a horrible feeling to never really fit in your own home, to constantly feel like everything you do is a disappointment to your family. It's also a normal reaction to decide you don't need their approval & to actively draw the line because then it's your choice, not just your failings, why you're different from them. They were all pretty immature and could have used years of therapy, to be honest.

[Taryn74]

2 hours ago, JaggedLilPill said:

Chris was in no way excited over the prospect of marrying Lorelai and moving into Gilmore house, going into business with Richard. If anything, he seemed defeated and resigned.

That was his attitude by the time Rory was born, true.  But looking back at the scene where Chris and Lorelai are hiding on the staircase listening to the adults argue, once again IMO it shows how much he takes his cues from Lorelai.  His "It's okay, it sounds okay..." seemed genuine to me, and way more upbeat than he sounds later when he says "So, I guess we should get married."  Lord, Emily was right when she said he was a charming, but weak boy.  No surprise, I guess, that he's been letting Lorelai lead him around by the nose since they were kids.

 

52 minutes ago, moonb said:

 

Obviously Chris didn't have a great relationship with his parents anymore than Lorelai did with hers, but I wonder if over the years he unconsciously absorbed thinking similar to Emily's - that his life would have gone better after age 16 if he had married Lorelai and become a stable family man.

 

I think you just hit the nail on the head.

[RachelKM]

I kind of understand and can sympathize with a 17/18 year old Lorelai making a rash and drastic step, however hurtful it was to her parents, based on being a teenager without the benefit of maturity and perspective.  I can see how a  17 year old girl who felt she had no power or control in her life (whether her perception was accurate or not) would seize it and fear that if she didn't take total control she'd have none and that perhaps any contact before she had really made a life for herself would result in her parents taking over.  It would be a lot easier to face her parents, even on a limited basis, when she felt like she was on solid ground rather than still struggling thereby giving them an argument for returning.

I can even see maintaining that perspective a bit over the years with limited contact (holiday parties which would have allowed her to avoid excessive one-on-one time) and minimal visits primarily on her own turf.  This could conceivably allow her to maintain her stance and allow her to avoid confronting her parents' hurt for the entirety of the 14/15 years she kept them at arms length. 

What I find less understandable and sympathetic is that a woman in her 30s with a teenager of her own could not grasp through her renewed semi-closeness with her parents that her 16 year old self had maybe not seen the whole picture and/or develop any sense of empathy for what her parents felt for her or about her leaving over 7 YEARS.

Edited September 22, 2016 by RachelKM
Sentence structure... yikes.

[txhorns79]

Quote

It's a horrible feeling to never really fit in your own home, to constantly feel like everything you do is a disappointment to your family. It's also a normal reaction to decide you don't need their approval & to actively draw the line because then it's your choice, not just your failings, why you're different from them.

Honestly, that just sounds like self-pity to me.  I don't pretend that Emily and Richard made life easy for Lorelai.  She had legitimate grievances with them, and I fully supported her finding somewhere else to live as she was not happy living there.  I just didn't think her parents deserved the shunning.  That just seemed petty and vindictive to me.  I really was struck when Richard tells Lorelai that Emily couldn't get out of bed for a month after she left, Lorelai gives little to no indication that she gets what that meant, and doesn't really reflect on that. 

[RachelKM]

37 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

Honestly, that just sounds like self-pity to me.  I don't pretend that Emily and Richard made life easy for Lorelai.  She had legitimate grievances with them, and I fully supported her finding somewhere else to live as she was not happy living there.  I just didn't think her parents deserved the shunning.  That just seemed petty and vindictive to me.  I really was struck when Richard tells Lorelai that Emily couldn't get out of bed for a month after she left, Lorelai gives little to no indication that she gets what that meant, and doesn't really reflect on that. 

Taking my response to the Lorelai Gilmore: The 10(+) Things I Hate About You thread as it is more of a Lorelai issue than a nitpick.

[clack]

The ultimate nitpick : it would be highly unlikely that a 15 year old girl in Lorelai's situation would have gone through with the pregnancy in the 1st place.

Christopher would be probably be pushing for an abortion. Christopher's parents and Richard and Emily would as well. And as for Lorelai : there would have to be some strong religious, moral, or psychological motive for choosing to become a mother while still basically a child herself. If there ever was such a motive, it was never shared with the viewers. Maybe the closest we get is that her pregnancy was an act of rebellion against her parents?

Of course, without the pregnancy there would be no show. And I understand why the show would want to stay away from the abortion controversy. But that's also why, if you too closely examine that period in Lorelai's life, the basic premise of GG -- the 15 year old with the 32 year old hot mom from a socialite background  -- begins to fall apart.

[elang4]

6 minutes ago, clack said:

The ultimate nitpick : it would be highly unlikely that a 15 year old girl in Lorelai's situation would have gone through with the pregnancy in the 1st place.

Christopher would be probably be pushing for an abortion. Christopher's parents and Richard and Emily would as well. And as for Lorelai : there would have to be some strong religious, moral, or psychological motive for choosing to become a mother while still basically a child herself. If there ever was such a motive, it was never shared with the viewers. Maybe the closest we get is that her pregnancy was an act of rebellion against her parents?

Of course, without the pregnancy there would be no show. And I understand why the show would want to stay away from the abortion controversy. But that's also why, if you too closely examine that period in Lorelai's life, the basic premise of GG -- the 15 year old with the 32 year old hot mom from a socialite background  -- begins to fall apart.

To be fair in the flashback in Dear Emily and Richard, Straub suggests an abortion and Emily is dead against it.

[KatWay]

Quote

Honestly, that just sounds like self-pity to me.  I don't pretend that Emily and Richard made life easy for Lorelai.  She had legitimate grievances with them, and I fully supported her finding somewhere else to live as she was not happy living there.  I just didn't think her parents deserved the shunning.  That just seemed petty and vindictive to me.  I really was struck when Richard tells Lorelai that Emily couldn't get out of bed for a month after she left, Lorelai gives little to no indication that she gets what that meant, and doesn't really reflect on that. 

She was a teenager, self-pity is what they do. And I don't think the "shunning" was a rational choice made by a mature adult (she never grew up to be very mature). Petty and vindictive is something her parents could be too, seems to be a family trait. I honestly can't remember, did Richard or Emily try to establish contact with Lorelai after she left? Did they ever admit that maybe they didn't handle things very well? Because at the start of the show they still seem to think they were 100% right about how things should have been handled (Chris marrying Lorelai, etc). And their newly established contact with Lorelai, especially in the first few episodes, felt a lot more trying to connect with Rory, not Lorelai. In the golf episode Emily is pretty much smugly smirking in Lorelai's face at the fact that Richard & Rory have established a connection that Lorelai apparently never had with her dad. They're just as stubborn as Lorelai in that regard and contributed just as much to the continued estrangement.

[Viqutorious]

I stumbled on this site and thought it was fun to look through, someone took the time and effort to note where most scenes were filmed on the show. I had no idea which thread to link this in, so I'm just putting it here.

http://www.itsfilmedthere.com/2010/02/gilmore-girls_26.html

[txhorns79]

Quote

I honestly can't remember, did Richard or Emily try to establish contact with Lorelai after she left?

I think they were a little hazy on the details.  There was some suggestion they saw them an the Inn, and obviously, Lorelai and Rory were attending Emily and Richard's holiday parties, so they had to have had some contact. 

[RachelKM]

13 hours ago, KatWay said:

She was a teenager, self-pity is what they do. And I don't think the "shunning" was a rational choice made by a mature adult (she never grew up to be very mature). Petty and vindictive is something her parents could be too, seems to be a family trait. I honestly can't remember, did Richard or Emily try to establish contact with Lorelai after she left? Did they ever admit that maybe they didn't handle things very well? Because at the start of the show they still seem to think they were 100% right about how things should have been handled (Chris marrying Lorelai, etc). And their newly established contact with Lorelai, especially in the first few episodes, felt a lot more trying to connect with Rory, not Lorelai. In the golf episode Emily is pretty much smugly smirking in Lorelai's face at the fact that Richard & Rory have established a connection that Lorelai apparently never had with her dad. They're just as stubborn as Lorelai in that regard and contributed just as much to the continued estrangement.

I don't know that they ever expressed any specific changing of their minds, nor do I think it means much.  In my opinion, the primary Gilmore family traits were stubbornness and pride.  I wouldn't really expect any of them to decide their own ways of thinking or doing things were wrong. My issue with Lorelai was that she never gained perspective whereas, despite far less POV and less screen time, I think you could make a case that at least Emily did.

In Season 1, everyone seemed to be stuck in their respective positions at the point they were when Lorelai left. And, in the first season especially,  E&R  were extremely isolated and we really only saw them in the context of Friday night dinners.  But over time, while I don't know that Emily ever thought Lorelai's ways were right or that it might not have been better if she'd followed Emily's plan, I feel that Emily gained some understanding and appreciation for Lorelai.  I also think that she didn't necessarily get Lorelai, but she was acutely aware that she wasn't getting it (and I think that hurt her sometimes, the inability to understand her child).  But, particularly as of seasons 3/4 as Emily's role seemed to branch out more from being in the perpetually in the mansion, there was a lot of evidence that Emily's views had changed and she accepted, even if she didn't 100% get or like,  Lorelai's choices.  And really, by the end, other than frustration with her daughter's love life (and apparent inability to commit - which fair)  she didn't seem to judge Lorelai or dismiss her life choices.  Whereas Lorelai continued to mock and condescend about Emily and Richard's. 

On the one hand, I think it is sort of a parent's job to work to understand his or her child. And the Gilmore's clearly didn't do that enough when Lorelai was a kid.  And it absolutely sucks that it took a near 15 year estrangement and then re-connection for Emily to try.   Or maybe she just didn't understand the problem until it blew up - still crappy, but human.  But on the other hand, I feel like Emily came to understand Lorelai more than Lorelai even tried to understand Emily.  And at some point we have to grow up and view our parents as people as well as parents. 

Edited September 23, 2016 by RachelKM

[Kohola3]

1 hour ago, RachelKM said:

And it absolutely sucks that it took a near 15 year estrangement and then re-connection for Emily to try.

But did she seriously try?  She just kept making the same controlling mistakes 15 years later.  Demanding that Lorelai keep the date with the dud so she could have the "first cup of tea".  Stabbing Lorelai in the back when Rory moved out and then acted like the wounded party because Lorelai didn't jump to and pack all of Rory's things for the big move.  Deliberately inviting Christopher to the vow renewal to make his play.  Heck, all the rest of the crap she pulled about Luke from the get go.  I don't think she changed one bit.  She continued to live as though her plans for Lorelai were the only correct ones.

[RachelKM]

1 hour ago, Kohola3 said:

But did she seriously try?  She just kept making the same controlling mistakes 15 years later.  Demanding that Lorelai keep the date with the dud so she could have the "first cup of tea".  Stabbing Lorelai in the back when Rory moved out and then acted like the wounded party because Lorelai didn't jump to and pack all of Rory's things for the big move.  Deliberately inviting Christopher to the vow renewal to make his play.  Heck, all the rest of the crap she pulled about Luke from the get go.  I don't think she changed one bit.  She continued to live as though her plans for Lorelai were the only correct ones.

In my opinion she did.  As I said, in Season 1, I feel everyone was still in the same mindset as the day Lorelai left.  But through re-connecting, I thought Emily made an effort to understand her daughter. And, by season 3 at least, had started to slowly get it more.  Was it perfect?  Not at all.  But as I said above, I think Emily came to appreciate Lorelai as an adult. 

Edited September 23, 2016 by RachelKM

[KatWay]

Quote

In my opinion she did.  As I said, in Season 1, I feel everyone was still in the same mindset as the day Lorelai left.  But through re-connecting, I thought Emily made an effort to understand her daughter. And, by season 3 at least, had started to slowly get it more.  Was it perfect?  Not at all.  But as I said above, I think Emily came to appreciate Lorelai as an adult. 

for every step forward, there were two steps back IMO. I don't think she stopped trying change Lorelai until the very end of the show. For every realisation that Lorelai was just different and yet led a successful, happy life, there were a bunch of attempts to mold her more into what Emily thought she should be. Which I can understand to a degree but a lot of those attempts were very underhanded and messed with Lorelai's life in negative ways. And there was always that extra bit of Lorelai not being quite as important because she wasn't part of their world. The way they dismissed her when Logan came over to visit, the way they didn't believe her (despite Rory's behaviour clearly supporting it) about the Huntzbergers...

[AllyB]

18 hours ago, RachelKM said:

On the one hand, I think it is sort of a parent's job to work to understand his or her child. 

I agree with that however I also believe that pretty much our very first genuinely adult act is to decide on the adult to adult relationship that we want with our parents and forge the path that leads to it. No matter how good a parent is, they can't truly know exactly what sort of relationship their adult child wants with them unless the adult child leads the way. And it can be very difficult for a parent to accept that the person in front of them who's bum they wiped, who's toddler and teen tantrums they bore the brunt of, is truly an adult of equal status now, especially if their relationship is difficult. So it's up to the adult child to lay down boundaries, accept that their parents are also flawed humans, and then (unless the parents are truly toxic) make the overtures that create a healthy adult to adult relationship.

Lorelai never ever did this. Not when she first left Hartford and not throughout the series. It was left to Emily to make the overtures and try to set boundaries, but when the parent is the one setting the boundaries, they feel much more like rules. If years ago Lorelai had agreed to weekly meetings with her parents, she could have had control over it. She could have picked a time and place that suited her, maybe Tuesday evening tea at a cafe in a town halfway between SH and Hartford. Then she would have been in control of the situation and it would have been easier to shut down Emily when she tried to control her. As Rory grew older and began her Harvard ambitions R&E would probably have straight up offered the money for Chilton. And Lorelai could have accepted it without accepting any strings as she never asked for the money, it was a gift to Rory from her grandparents. They would all have been happier and it was ultimately Lorelai's responsibility to work that out. Her refusal to hurt her nearly as much as it did R&E.

Edited September 24, 2016 by AllyB

[RachelKM]

I've been trying to figure out which thread this belongs in; I think this one is probably most accurate. I was writing in another thread about Lorelai and Christopher getting married and how Rory wasn't even there and that it was clear to me that it was a rebound and that brought me to mind about how selfish it was of Lorelai.  That was, for better or worse and whether or not he appropriately took on the mantle, Rory's father.  At that point in the series, Rory finally had a fairly healthy and regular relationship with her father.  At the start of the series, he seemed to blow in and out of their lives and there was some strain after Season 2.  But by Season 4, they seemed to have found an equilibrium (not that we saw much of it).  That said, Rory was absolutely always and foremost allied with her mother vis-a-vis Christopher.  And Lorelai not taking into account how rebounding with Christopher, let alone marrying him when she wasn't really sure, would impact Rory if (when) it crashed and burned was not well done.  I'm not saying it should be her only concern, but the apparent lack of thought was her relationship with Max times 100 to me.

And While I was writing that, I wondered to myself why that wasn't more obvious to me before I got the end of my sentence about it.  I was always a little bothered by it, I think; but it wasn't something I really thought about. And then it hit me.  We have mentioned in several threads how Christopher wasn't much of a real father to Rory and how Lorelai seemed to either allow or possibly prefer it.  But it occurs to me that the whole show, not just Lorelai but everyone in it and the writing in general, treated Chris's relationship with Lorelai as primary over his relationship with Rory, i.e. his importance to the show seemed almost exclusively based on his relevance as a love interest for Lorelai and the fact that he was Rory's father seemed to be relevant primarily in that context, an element of his relationship to Lorelai.

It's odd that the show seemed so utterly indifferent to Rory's relationship with Christopher.  I realize that it is mostly a lighthearted show, but it did do drama.  It's just strange that the show never really took up the fact that Christopher, Lorelai and even Rory seemed to view Christopher through the lens of his relationship to Lorelai far more than his relationship to Rory. As I said, it was eventually acknowledged that Rory had her own relationship with Chris by the time she was college age, but it never seemed like his relevance to the show.  I'm not sure I'm making sense. 

Edited September 29, 2016 by RachelKM

[lulu1960]

I completely understand. They did make it appear that Rory was the afterthought. It was always,(Paraphrasing)  "I came into some money, what can I buy you ... (pause) and Rory?" "The greatest day of my life was when I kissed Lorelai." etc. 

[junienmomo]

Fathers fell right in behind boyfriends on the dimwit/evil/controlling side when it came to mens' roles in GG. The only father relationship that wasn't retconned or mangled was the Luke/Jess relationship. Sometimes I wonder how that one escaped the awful treatment of other fathers. 

[hippielamb]

21 hours ago, RachelKM said:

It's odd that the show seemed so utterly indifferent to Rory's relationship with Christopher.  I realize that it is mostly a lighthearted show, but it did do drama.  It's just strange that the show never really took up the fact that Christopher, Lorelai and even Rory seemed to view Christopher through the lens of his relationship to Lorelai far more than his relationship to Rory. As I said, it was eventually acknowledged that Rory had her own relationship with Chris by the time she was college age, but it never seemed like his relevance to the show.  I'm not sure I'm making sense. 

This show focuses on mothers and daughters, I think that's why so many of us bond over it and watch together. Fathers are either mostly out of the picture, or busy working as in Richard's case. If Chris' bond were with Rory instead of Lorelai, it wouldn't be about the Gilmore girls. It's why Lorelai resisted Max's input into step-parenting Rory and why they didn't have her marry him. It would have changed the story of a mother and daughter relationship.

Mr Kim is never seen although Lane mentions "her parents", it's her mother who is the driving parental force. He apparently isn't at her weddings or baby shower.
Emily and Lorelai are similar to Mrs Kim and Lane. The father is physically present in the house but the mother makes all the decisions. I adore the small snippets of Lorelai and Richard but they are few and far between. It's mostly about her and Emily. The only father we see taking an active role is Luke, and his interactions with April always feel a little removed from the show. 

[RachelKM]

On Friday, September 30, 2016 at 6:57 AM, hippielamb said:

This show focuses on mothers and daughters, I think that's why so many of us bond over it and watch together. Fathers are either mostly out of the picture, or busy working as in Richard's case. If Chris' bond were with Rory instead of Lorelai, it wouldn't be about the Gilmore girls. It's why Lorelai resisted Max's input into step-parenting Rory and why they didn't have her marry him. It would have changed the story of a mother and daughter relationship.

Mr Kim is never seen although Lane mentions "her parents", it's her mother who is the driving parental force. He apparently isn't at her weddings or baby shower.
Emily and Lorelai are similar to Mrs Kim and Lane. The father is physically present in the house but the mother makes all the decisions. I adore the small snippets of Lorelai and Richard but they are few and far between. It's mostly about her and Emily. The only father we see taking an active role is Luke, and his interactions with April always feel a little removed from the show. 

To me, this explains why we don't see much of Rory and Christopher's relationship on screen.  My point was a little different and in some ways addresses Rory and Lorelai as much as Rory and Christopher.  The show focusing on mothers and daughters is a reason for the fathers to be relegated to the background as far as what portion of their lives is written about and shown. However, it does not explain why Lorelai attitude about Christopher was that he was her ex with very little consideration of his role as Rory's father and rarely consider that role in her actions.  Lorelai's relationship with Christopher is simply treated as more important than Rory's relationship with him, even when Lorelai are Christopher are not together.   

It's a flaw of Lorelai, in my opinion, that the show doesn't ever address.  Marrying Rory's father without thinking about Rory being there or even telling her first would have been self-centered if she really wanted to be married.  But rebounding with Rory's father and then even marrying him when she wasn't sure was a thing that would effect her daughter and it seemed to be more glossed over. Season 2 was similarly handled.  Chris and Lorelai was shown solely through the lens of Lorelai.  Rory's perspective on her own behalf was barely addressed at all.   

I guess it can be said it was because it was about Christopher and Rory and that wasn't the focus, but Lorelai and Rory are the main characters and relationships beyond each other.  I don't know that I like the idea of a show elevating mother and daughter relationships by not just focusing on mothers and daughters, but actually disregarding fathers even when it makes sense for that relationship to be relevant in the story being written. 

Edited October 2, 2016 by RachelKM
Typos

[JayInChicago]

In the nanny and the professor, we meet Cyrus, Jason's odd dog. Is it just me or does he not actually move at all with the a little to the left command? I think he just stands and sits in the same place.

[timimouse]

10 minutes ago, JayInChicago said:

In the nanny and the professor, we meet Cyrus, Jason's odd dog. Is it just me or does he not actually move at all with the a little to the left command? I think he just stands and sits in the same place.

The dog is as stupid as Jason.

(In case you couldn't tell, I'm a major Jason-hater.)

[chessiegal]

58 minutes ago, JayInChicago said:

In the nanny and the professor, we meet Cyrus, Jason's odd dog. Is it just me or does he not actually move at all with the a little to the left command? I think he just stands and sits in the same place.

IIRC he does move. That's what good dog trainers get paid for on TV shows.

[chessiegal]

My husband has a nitpick. We were watching the episode where Luke is buying a birthday present for Rachel. Luke is wearing a green jacket that says "Army"and my husband says that the insignia on the shoulders are from the Air Force. I told him to blame wardrobe.

[CalamityBoPeep]

My daughter and I started a re-watch (which will probably go unfinished as we approach the painful seasons) to get ready for the revival. Nitpick: Why are all the kids in the cafeteria eating lunch when Lorelai and Max kiss in "Paris Is Burning"? It's been established that his class is Rory's first of the day (or "Deer Hunters" makes no sense), so why in the world is Chilton serving chicken when if anything, they would be having breakfast? Some schools do serve breakfast, but I wouldn't think Chilton would. The timing is just way off, unless we fanwank that Max's class goes for 3 solid hours, one day a week, or something like that. It's just weird.

[scarynikki12]

Some schools change the class schedules each semester.  So Rory could have had Max's class first thing in the fall semester and then just before lunch in the spring semester when Paris is Burning takes place.

[CalamityBoPeep]

But didn't Lorelai just arrive for Parents Day, and ask Rory where they were heading. Seems like his was the first class they went to that day. Unless Lorelai arrived late.

Dunno... still seems like a valid nitpick to me, but I don't think I'll rewatch it again to try to get the exact timeline or arrival quotes down. We just sat there going "wait, why are they having lunch this early in the day?"

[FictionLover]

In One's got class before Lorelai and Luke are giving their presentation to Star's Hollow High School Lane is running around with bleach on her hair and Rory is helping her color her hair. Why aren't they in school? 

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, CalamityBoPeep said:

But didn't Lorelai just arrive for Parents Day, and ask Rory where they were heading. Seems like his was the first class they went to that day. Unless Lorelai arrived late.

Dunno... still seems like a valid nitpick to me, but I don't think I'll rewatch it again to try to get the exact timeline or arrival quotes down. We just sat there going "wait, why are they having lunch this early in the day?"

Yeah, I remember watching it and I'm pretty sure it was Rory's first class of the day, and then suddenly it was lunch. Now, I went to an arts high school and it was a fairly big school so there were different lunch periods, and one of them started at 9:25am (which really sucked half of the time if you got that lunch period). But I would think at a school like Chilton, there would only be one lunch period and it wouldn't be so early in the morning. 

But there was also that Francie episode where they invited Rory to sit with them at their table and then two minutes later they had to go to class and the bell rang, so maybe there are multiple lunch periods.

[JaggedLilPill]

3 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Yeah, I remember watching it and I'm pretty sure it was Rory's first class of the day, and then suddenly it was lunch. Now, I went to an arts high school and it was a fairly big school so there were different lunch periods, and one of them started at 9:25am (which really sucked half of the time if you got that lunch period). But I would think at a school like Chilton, there would only be one lunch period and it wouldn't be so early in the morning. 

But there was also that Francie episode where they invited Rory to sit with them at their table and then two minutes later they had to go to class and the bell rang, so maybe there are multiple lunch periods.

Same for me. My high school was huge and we had multiple lunch periods, and I also think the first one started at about 9-ish. Hence why I'd eat a granola bar and just wait to have an actual lunch when I got home.

Edited October 11, 2016 by JaggedLilPill

[chessiegal]

On 10/11/2016 at 11:02 AM, FictionLover said:

In One's got class before Lorelai and Luke are giving their presentation to Star's Hollow High School Lane is running around with bleach on her hair and Rory is helping her color her hair. Why aren't they in school? 

I'm watching it now, and Lorelai's talk was an after school thing set up by the PTA. Debbie told them to be there at 4 pm, which would be after school.

[JBrianne]

I hate the show's whole attitude to reproductive health / reproduction in general. Whenever everyone is grossed out by breastfeeding? When Lorelai doesn't know how birth control and pregnancy work? When Sookie is like HAHA YOU'RE GETTING A VASECTOMY and even worse when Jackson doesn't and then doesn't tell Sookie that he didn't? When Lane gets pregnant after having sex once (and of course it's awful because why the hell should she get to have a fun time)? There are probably more examples but those are the ones that make me blind with rage. It's all completely awful and immature and ridiculous.

[clack]

Why hasn't Lorelai fired Michel?

He's lazy, and acts put upon when he's asked to perform his duties -- and sometimes he outright refuses to do his job. He's insubordinate to Lorelai, his boss. He hates his co-workers. He's rude to the guests. He seems to not care whether or not the inn makes a profit.

Michel is an awful employee.

[readster]

Quote

When Lorelai doesn't know how birth control and pregnancy work? When Sookie is like HAHA YOU'RE GETTING A VASECTOMY and even worse when Jackson doesn't and then doesn't tell Sookie that he didn't? When Lane gets pregnant after having sex once (and of course it's awful because why the hell should she get to have a fun time)? There are probably more examples but those are the ones that make me blind with rage. It's all completely awful and immature and ridiculous

Oh I completely agree. As I have said, I had no problems with Lane finding out sex is not what it was all hyped up to be or not to be, but it went too far. Then I had no problem with Sookie saying: "We have one of each, let's move on." No, it's basically order the nurses to handcuff Jackson to the out patient waiting room and then he gets there and they let him go and he just says: "Just tell my wife I got it and fake the paper work and I'll justy say I paid the bill off." Then get's pregnant after Sookie went off birth control when she was under the impression that Jackson was snipped, because doctors even say wait a month after the procedure to make sure all sperm are dead and then just tell women to wait at the worst 3 months and then go off birth control slowly. Here it was almost a year later. What the hell? 

 

Quote

Why hasn't Lorelai fired Michel?

He's lazy, and acts put upon when he's asked to perform his duties -- and sometimes he outright refuses to do his job. He's insubordinate to Lorelai, his boss. He hates his co-workers. He's rude to the guests. He seems to not care whether or not the inn makes a profit.

Michel is an awful employee.

I really was and when he was working at the other inn while the Dragonfly was being finished, he was still the same. He was really, really bad, but that's sadly the one thing I did find realistic sadly. How many times have we worked with someone like that who was the friend, cousin, big boobed, lazy relative of someone and no matter what they did. They would have to commit murder before being let go. I lost my job applying for a transfer and because two employees were leaving the place a mess. But since I worked before them, it has to be "my fault". Then after I was gone they realized it was still happening and then fired those employees, but by then it was too late and they didn't want to look like morons so they just chalked it up to: "Well, opps!" 

[Anela]

In the Valentine's weekend episode, where they all go to Martha's Vineyard, they make it seem like Rory has been a regular there. How did she have time, in between partying with Logan and his friends, going back to Stars Hollow, her community service, and all of that school work? They'd also broken up, and he was stalking her, trying to get her back. Suddenly, she's at home in this whole new place, and they have a "thing" where they go to the gym, and she's making things in the kitchen? 

[HawkeyeLo]

Been lurking for a long time, but I just rewatched season 6, and something always bugs me that I don't think I've seen mentioned here before. In Friday Night's All Right for Fighting, Rory is upset that Paris didn't approve a picture from a football game and there's a blank space in the paper. This episode takes place between the beginning of second semester and Valentine's Day, so mid-to-late January. College football is over by then, especially for the Ivies, which (as far as I know) don't participate in any postseason bowls or playoff. So Yale would've been done with football around Thanksgiving.

I mean, I know it's no secret that time on this show is a complete mystery, but they could've so easily just said basketball! C'mon, writers. Also, hi everyone! I've enjoyed reading all your insights.

Edited October 31, 2016 by HawkeyeLo

[ghoulina]

Not sure if this has ever been mentioned, but I just finished season 1 yesterday (for the millionth time, I'm sure) and it always bothers me how both Dean and Lorelai pull their vehicles right up to the entrance of the school. Isn't there an actual parking lot? They're parked right next to the fountain! It's so awkward! 

[TimetravellingBW]

This might be a personal opinion thing, but it drives me crazy that when Lorelai and Rory get back from Europe in s4 they immediately start planning a jam packed week and want to do a bunch of sightseeing in New York. (And then are horrified when they can't do it because Rory starts Yale earlier than she thought). Seriously, after a massive 3-month backpacking trip, doing non-stop tourist stuff and travelling from country to country the last thing most people want to do is do touristy stuff in their own country! You want to veg out in your own house and see someone other than the person you've been travelling with for the last however long.