S12.E14: I Expected a Little Better

[Lindz]

17 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

I was very disappointed that Pepper did not bring up Virginia's drinking as I think that impacts a lot of their arguments and why Erik tries to be controlling.  Virginia flat out refused to not drink when they were having discussions/arguments and that was what Pepper told Erik to bring up to Virginia, so Pepper needs to get on board and start addressing some of Virginia's drinking issues (Erik doesn't have to be there, she could address it one-on-one). 

Same. Really should've discussed that. Could've been interesting. What Dr. Pepper asked wasn't even what they asked in their meeting. All that talk about getting understanding & they turn around & have another argument (of their side) AS USUAL!! 😅😂

[Hangin Out]

19 minutes ago, Lindz said:

Same. Really should've discussed that. Could've been interesting. What Dr. Pepper asked wasn't even what they asked in their meeting. All that talk about getting understanding & they turn around & have another argument (of their side) AS USUAL!! 😅😂

Maybe Pepper will say something next week?  Or is next week decision day?   I can’t wait until this fiasco is over.

Edited April 16, 2021 by Silver Bells

[cinsays]

2 hours ago, crazychicken said:

@Yeah No When I said lying I was talking about her excuse of that she received it 3 minutes before walking down the aisle so she did not have time to put it on, the clip shows she received it before her make up was done. Hayley likes to present things in a way that twist the issue so she does not need to accept any responsibility, after seeing her phone call with her mother I can see where she gets it from my mother would have told me to pull my head in and consider the other persons feelings but instead her mother enabled her stanky attitude. It costs nothing to be polite or apologize she doesn't like Jake that is fine he is not everybody's cup of teas but her whole stanky face pulling, snide remarks and sour attitude wears thin very fast Jake has shown way more patience than I would have.

It also baffle me that she is such a poor winner and loser at the same time, when she wins she gloats when she loses she pouts, she must be a drag to hang out with.

 

 

If she's brought this up to her mother in conversations many times, why didn't she just get it sent back to her so she could either wear it or give it back to him to end the argument?

[Lindz]

On 4/15/2021 at 3:56 PM, candall said:

I've been listening closely to Jake.  I think he's very awkward, socially, but he's aware of that.  In fact, I think one of Jake's best features is that he's pretty self-aware about most things.  He admits that he's afraid a MAFS bride might be his very last chance.

     I also think he's telling the truth when he says he's still open to this thing working out, if only Haley will try.  Poor guy.  He doesn't want to be alone the rest of his life.  I believe he thinks:   "If I can't even make it work with an insta-bride, how am I ever going to get and keep a relationship going the regular way, from first date all the way through Golden Anniversary?"

     Theoretically, with a MAFS spouse, you can start out on second base and skip all those terribly complicated early bits, like meeting, dating, proposing . . . .

Haley did make a good point last episode about if she was right for him. I think he was wrong. It wouldn't work if they both wanted the marriage. They have to be attracted, compatible, open-minded, & willing to compromise first. They definitely don't want the marriage though & I wonder if they're trying to hurt each other. Instant marriage is for people who don't want to look for a spouse & do all the work to get them. They pass that onto the matchers and will try to make it work cuz it's their "match" (& don't want to do the spouse obtaining on their own), but what if they don't like their spouse? The marriage alone or desire to be married isn't enough to make it work. Why would he want to stay married to someone who is so critical & unpleasant to him?

Edited April 16, 2021 by Lindz

[Elizzikra]

6 hours ago, cinsays said:

If she's brought this up to her mother in conversations many times, why didn't she just get it sent back to her so she could either wear it or give it back to him to end the argument?

This is what I don't get. Not so much that she didn't take the time to figure out how to wear it on her wedding day, but the fact that she didn't make any effort to get it back even after she realized that it was hurtful to him that she didn't care about the gift. 

Should she have cared about the gift. Absolutely. It was a nice gesture from a stranger she was about to marry and I think the message - that he was doing as the show has asked and taking the marriage as a serious, lifelong commitment - was clear. From someone who goes on and on about how hard she is trying, she didn't do the one thing that was clearly explained to her as being problematic, and it was easy enough to solve, to boot. This is where I think Haley's mom's response was misguided. A wiser woman would have pointed out how to be gracious about the gift. 

Even if Haley knows the relationship is doomed (and honestly, does anyone anywhere near these two not know that now), she could still just be a nice person and acknowledge that, intentional or not, she did something hurtful. It's not like it costs her to apologize and remedy the mistake.

[Ilovepie]

13 hours ago, princelina said:

I agree - Erik comes off as controlling (true) and "know how a marriage should be" (seems obnoxious) but I'd like someone to look at what he thinks a "marriage should be" ~

• wives don't go out drinking and pass out on their friends couches on a regular basis
• if a husband is away for work regularly - then when he is not a wife should prioritize her time with him
• being married = having children

So Erik's a jerk but what he's looking for isn't all that uncommon in the realm of marriage seekers - and as far as Rule #1 goes - he's probably only asking at this point that she doesn't pass out on "guy friends" couches

Until I see that HIS idea of marriage is different than - what?  basically everyone else's idea of marriage - I'm giving him a break in spite of his poor delivery 🙂 

I agree that what he's asking for is not unreasonable, but his delivery is what's causing the problem!

He keeps harping on how "marriage should be" and she keeps coming back to "it's whatever we make it".  He needs to stop with the generalizing "how married people behave" and just straight up tell her that HIS expectations are that he is her priority, not hanging with her friends, and it's deeply troubling that it even has to be spelled out for her. He should also point out that he is gone enough that there is still plenty of time to hang with the friends while he is gone. If she can't or won't compromise even this much then maybe it's time to part ways.......

VA has already been told by PC that crashing at her guy friend's house is not okay. I wish Pepper had come down on her harder about this and her drinking. The new SIL should have spelled it out for her too like she did in the TH. Maybe if everyone tells her that her behavior is not compatible with married life, it will get through to her.  Either way, I am sure she is aware now if she is reading anything on social media!

[Hangin Out]

This quick way to get married is not the way to go.  It may seem good in the sense that it saves time, energy and money, but, you are missing the excitement of courtship, falling in love, and the anticipation of finally being together.  There is no romance here and I think romance is important to start a marriage.  Romance and love is the glue for a successful marriage hopefully.

[glitterpussy]

17 hours ago, Silver Bells said:

He’s gay and that’s it.

I think I'm starting to agree with this. Super religious, two pastor parents, so he can NEVER admit it and needs a beard, oops wife because that's what God wants....but can't bring himself to actually have sex with a woman. Also probably a virgin. Poor bastard.

[Hangin Out]

@Princelina .. Thinking about your mushroom present.  I think it’s one of those highly polished mushrooms that decorates your garden.  An ornament I’ve seen on walkways to a house.  No?

[Hangin Out]

6 minutes ago, glitterpussy said:

I think I'm starting to agree with this. Super religious, two pastor parents, so he can NEVER admit it and needs a beard, oops wife because that's what God wants....but can't bring himself to actually have sex with a woman. Also probably a virgin. Poor bastard.

And as Jerry Seinfeld would say .. “and there’s nothing wrong with that”.  Lol

[pdlinda]

I have a slightly (maybe not so slightly) different issue with the bracelet (necklace) fiasco.

Through the years I've always loved jewelry (some fine, some knock-offs).  I bought my fair share and other pieces were gifted to me.  I know about pricing as I've given a lot of jewelry as gifts to loved ones.

When I look at the bracelet (that Haley thought was a necklace)  I say to myself "$800.00???"  HUH????  I see (assuming it's 14K gold) a small infinity shape on a thin gold chain.  I do not see any gemstones, no less small diamonds.  

Unless I'm mistaken in what I see, I cannot imagine paying more than $150-200 for such a bauble (I'm eliminating it being an Elsa Peretti-type designer piece like from Tiffany's).

There are many reasons to disparage Jake but if he paid $800.00 for that piece, there's ocean-view property I'd like to sell him here in Arizona! 

Unless someone can give info I'm missing, Jake was really "taken" on this purchase so the question becomes either he's an unsophisticated "rube" in the jewelry dept OR money means very little to him and he squanders it whenever the mood hits him (I'd opt for the former).

[StatisticalOutlier]

10 hours ago, Yeah No said:

The fact that she didn't take it out of the box to look at it and gave it to her mother was perhaps an error in judgment done during a moment of high stress when she wasn't thinking straight, but I am sure that it was not made with any intent to snub her husband to be.  She may have given it to her out of worry that she would lose such an expensive item. 

Am I to assume he left the price tag on it?  😀

7 hours ago, Silver Bells said:

sleeping over Paige’s while on honeymoon,

That didn't happen on the honeymoon.

7 hours ago, Silver Bells said:

She didn’t try once to be nice to him. 

I think she not only tried but succeeded, not only once but more than once.  And she did have sex with him.

Something interesting on Unfiltered was that Haley said she and Jake had a discussion about their love languages, and he shared his, but showed no interest in knowing what hers was.  I was reminded of when she was talking about her travels and he showed little interest in that, too.  Is that just how he rolls (deal-breaker for me), or was he letting his hurt over the bracelet (and who knows what else) cause him to disengage (which is fixable if there's incentive, which there probably isn't)?

So he gets hurt from day one by the gifts (he thought Haley rejected his, and he thought Haley's gift to him was inadequate), and she realized she's not attracted to him, and he brings up the bracelet and how much it cost, and that doesn't make him any more attractive to her, and she doesn't make an effort to have her mother send the bracelet, and he doesn't show interest in what her love language is, and things continue to spiral downward, pulling all sorts of extraneous matters into the vortex.

Put all of that onto a couple that's mismatched in the first place, and it's no surprise we are where we are.

12 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

Even if Haley knows the relationship is doomed (and honestly, does anyone anywhere near these two not know that now), she could still just be a nice person and acknowledge that, intentional or not, she did something hurtful. It's not like it costs her to apologize and remedy the mistake.

I totally agree.  But it would cost Jake nothing to wear the hat she gave him instead of giving it back by putting it on her dresser for her to find, or to refrain from comparing the price of the hat versus the price of the bracelet.

But maybe I'm biased because I think it was a decent gift for her to give.  That lady you're fixing to marry and know nothing about?  Here's a little peek--I'm a Crimson Tide fan.  See ya at the altar in a few minutes.

And now that I think about it, I don't see Haley getting resentful over Jake not wearing the hat to the ceremony, which it turns out wouldn't be all that crazy because he says he likes doing hilarious things, like wearing shorty cut-offs to a work outing at a golf course.  

[Baltimore Betty]

22 minutes ago, pdlinda said:

I say to myself "$800.00???"  HUH???? 

I thought the same thing, the box alone does not look like an $800 anything would have been in it.  I think Jake was exaggerating when he thru that number out.  Also, it did look like a necklace, a bracelet would have been in a long flat, thin box.

[princelina]

49 minutes ago, Silver Bells said:

@Princelina .. Thinking about your mushroom present.  I think it’s one of those highly polished mushrooms that decorates your garden.  An ornament I’ve seen on walkways to a house.  No?

That wasn't me - it was the other poster who's husband has groovy tastes!  I'm the one who made a "no gift" policy so we could buy nice things for the house or go on trips 😄

[answerphone]

Ryan’s upbringing has made it impossible for him to either have sex with Clara, or to come out of the closet. 
He wasn’t ready to marry.

Virginia’s not willing to put her married relationship before her drinking buddies. She wasn’t  ready to marry.

Haley is determined to have her ideal man of her dreams, with her always in the driver’s seat. She wasn’t ready to marry. 

Clara, with her Gwen Stefani look, may have matched well with quirky Jake.   

I’m glad we didn’t have Chris and Paige in our faces this week. 

Edited April 16, 2021 by answerphone
Misspelling

[pdlinda]

14 minutes ago, Baltimore Betty said:

I thought the same thing, the box alone does not look like an $800 anything would have been in it.  I think Jake was exaggerating when he thru that number out.  Also, it did look like a necklace, a bracelet would have been in a long flat, thin box

You're so RIGHT!  Now my thoughts are roaming even farther "afield"  to the Macy's, Dillard's (or any other retailer's) clearance bins near the fine jewelry showcases???? 

[Baltimore Betty]

2 minutes ago, pdlinda said:

You're so RIGHT!  Now my thoughts are roaming even farther "afield"  to the Macy's, Dillard's (or any other retailer's) clearance bins near the fine jewelry showcases???? 

By the look of the box...Kohl's.

[pdlinda]

4 minutes ago, Baltimore Betty said:

By the look of the box...Kohl's.

😂😂

[Hangin Out]

11 hours ago, Lindz said:

Oh Lord! 5 minutes in & Virginia's CRYING?!! Cuz he hasn't talked to her family?!! OMG!! CRYING?? SERIOUSLY?!! She's imbalanced. That's ridiculous. It's not even at that level to cry about. Did she even tell him it's very important to her & give him a chance to act? Crying.... especially over expectations she didn't even share 

[StatisticalOutlier]

36 minutes ago, Baltimore Betty said:

I thought the same thing, the box alone does not look like an $800 anything would have been in it. 

Please please please let Jake by lying about how much that goddamn bracelet cost. 

[gingerandcloves]

I saw a close up of the bracelet/necklace on Instagram and there do appear to be diamonds on it, so maybe the $800 isn't exaggerated. It does seem kind of tacky for him to bring up the price, but still, it was a nice gesture, and she should've worn it for the wedding regardless.

[Hangin Out]

39 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

That didn't happen on the honeymoon.

Sorry, correct.  Apartment.

[Yeah No]

10 hours ago, crazychicken said:

@Yeah No When I said lying I was talking about her excuse of that she received it 3 minutes before walking down the aisle so she did not have time to put it on, the clip shows she received it before her make up was done. Hayley likes to present things in a way that twist the issue so she does not need to accept any responsibility, after seeing her phone call with her mother I can see where she gets it from my mother would have told me to pull my head in and consider the other persons feelings but instead her mother enabled her stanky attitude. It costs nothing to be polite or apologize she doesn't like Jake that is fine he is not everybody's cup of teas but her whole stanky face pulling, snide remarks and sour attitude wears thin very fast Jake has shown way more patience than I would have.

It also baffle me that she is such a poor winner and loser at the same time, when she wins she gloats when she loses she pouts, she must be a drag to hang out with.

I'm aware of all that.  The thing is, I'm defending Haley better than she knows how to defend herself.  She resorts to lying because she doesn't have the ability to figure out the best way to react to Jake when he makes such accusations.  In that way she becomes her own worst enemy because no one is going to believe her made up explanations.  But my defense of her was more to the point.  How could she possibly have intended to snub him if she hadn't even met him when she got the bracelet?  The worst thing she could be accused of is being careless with it, which I would not personally read into that any cavalier attitude about her potential spouse.  I just think like most people who do this she was incredibly nervous and not thinking straight during those last moments before she walked down the aisle.  Honestly, where was her maid of honor?  She should have given the bracelet to her to hold.  But her not doing that wasn't necessarily a sign that there were bad intentions behind giving it to her mom.  I can't understand why her mom would have taken it with her, though.  They were probably so distracted by everything going on that they just forgot about it.  Again, I'm not going to vilify them for that.  They probably just forgot.  I'm sure that someone out there would take offense at them forgetting, but I don't.  If everyone's actions were picked apart enough the absolute WORST intentions could be read into them, but I seriously doubt that is the case here.  I will agree that Haley deliberately didn't get the bracelet back because after a certain amount of time she had been berated by Jake about it so many times that she just didn't care about it anymore.

[Mrs. Button]

Quote

Jake is the type of dude that if he took you to an expensive restaurant and you didn't eat all your expensive meal for whatever reason, he would never let you forget it and bring it up ever time there was an argument.   

Which leads right into the type of guy that "expects" something after he takes you dinner. I'm 51 so hopefully that's not a thing anymore, but it sure was in my 20s. What is supposably given freely shouldn't have strings attached; if it's given conditionally, it's not a gift. 

Quote

I often hear people of color talk about building a legacy or leaving a legacy for their children. I think this is largely because our communities were and are systematically denied opportunities to build our own wealth for centuries, so when we do get a chance to build wealth, it's important for us to do so. I am on the record as hating Chris but when he said last episode that he wanted his unborn child to have an inheritance, that's absolutely something I've heard other Black people say. This tends to be particularly true if they are the first people in their families who are in positions to leave something to future generations, which I think might be the case for Vinny although I'm not sure.

The idea of a legacy is throughout Hamilton as well (he's obsessed with it; his wife just wants to hang out with him). I'm Jewish, and while Jews don't speak of it in those terms, the concept is very culturally present as well (ESPECIALLY for families affected by the Holocaust or other tragedies; my nephew was murdered at Parkland and I think much of what his dad has done since then is for my nephew's legacy, although he may not vocalize it quite that way). I think legacy building is a beautiful, noble idea; what I find surprising is that it's taken so literally. You can still leave an amazing legacy with an adopted child; just because it plays out differently than you imagined, it can still be meaningful — perhaps more, since you had to work around the hand of fate.  

Quote

I once had a boyfriend like this.  He was so insanely jealous and insecure that he fabricated all of these scenarios to explain the most innocuous things I did with the absolute WORST intent that I never intended.  And no matter how I tried to explain it, no explanation was ever good enough for him, plus he'd try to trip me up in any explanation I did give as if it was even MORE evidence of my lying to him.  Needless to say this relationship didn't end well.  P.S.  In many ways Jake reminds me of him.  This guy was very good looking with a magnetic personality and ended up married twice but also divorced twice - no great shock or surprise there.  

Glad you got away! Unfortunately there are people whose desire to be right is more important than their desire to get along. Maybe distrusting people is their way to not be taken advantage of; regardless, they're completely toxic and the sooner you can get away the better. The minute you start validating their nutty arguments, in their eyes they've "won."

Quote

I think I'm starting to agree with this. Super religious, two pastor parents, so he can NEVER admit it and needs a beard, oops wife because that's what God wants....but can't bring himself to actually have sex with a woman. Also probably a virgin. Poor bastard.

I don't feel sorry for him, just any women he's been involved with up until now. Same with that Bachelor. It's incredibly selfish to put everyone around you through an elaborate charade simply because being honest with yourself is difficult, and you may end up disappointing your family.

[StatisticalOutlier]

19 minutes ago, gingerandcloves said:

I saw a close up of the bracelet/necklace on Instagram and there do appear to be diamonds on it, so maybe the $800 isn't exaggerated. It does seem kind of tacky for him to bring up the price, but still, it was a nice gesture, and she should've worn it for the wedding regardless.

Is the niceness of the gesture related to the price?  Is an $800 bracelet a nicer gesture than a $20 bracelet from Walmart?  Or is a $20 bracelet from Walmart a nice gesture at all?  And would a $20 bracelet from Walmart be a nicer gesture than a $20 hat from (what I assume is) the giver's alma mater? 

I keep thinking about old movies where the business executive hands his secretary some money and tells her to go buy something for his wife's birthday.  Some wives would bristle at that, and some would be happy to receive any gift.  I'm in the former group.

[Elizzikra]

Quote

 

When I look at the bracelet (that Haley thought was a necklace)  I say to myself "$800.00???"  HUH????  I see (assuming it's 14K gold) a small infinity shape on a thin gold chain.  I do not see any gemstones, no less small diamonds.  

Unless I'm mistaken in what I see, I cannot imagine paying more than $150-200 for such a bauble (I'm eliminating it being an Elsa Peretti-type designer piece like from Tiffany's).

 

I wondered that too. Even the Tiffany silver one was not $800 (I want to say maybe $250). I suppose it could be platinum with diamonds and that might get close to $800. 

Quote

 

I totally agree.  But it would cost Jake nothing to wear the hat she gave him instead of giving it back by putting it on her dresser for her to find, or to refrain from comparing the price of the hat versus the price of the bracelet.

But maybe I'm biased because I think it was a decent gift for her to give.  That lady you're fixing to marry and know nothing about?  Here's a little peek--I'm a Crimson Tide fan.  See ya at the altar in a few minutes.

 

Yup - they have both behaved badly. I agree that the hat was a great gift. I think in the early season, Steph gift AJ a basket of her favorite beers, which I also thought was great. I love it when there are clues into the gift-givers' personality. 

I like the exchange of gifts but they really should set a price limit to level expectations.

Quote

Also, it did look like a necklace, a bracelet would have been in a long flat, thin box.

Tiffany silver bracelets are in square boxes. But I also thought it looked like a necklace in the box.

Quote

you are missing the excitement of courtship, falling in love, and the anticipation of finally being together. 

I think that the idea is that you get all of those things (except the last) but after you're married??? 

[Crashcourse]

43 minutes ago, gingerandcloves said:

I saw a close up of the bracelet/necklace on Instagram and there do appear to be diamonds on it, so maybe the $800 isn't exaggerated. It does seem kind of tacky for him to bring up the price, but still, it was a nice gesture, and she should've worn it for the wedding regardless.

Or cubic zirconia, perhaps?  

[gingerandcloves]

14 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Is the niceness of the gesture related to the price?  Is an $800 bracelet a nicer gesture than a $20 bracelet from Walmart?  Or is a $20 bracelet from Walmart a nice gesture at all?  And would a $20 bracelet from Walmart be a nicer gesture than a $20 hat from (what I assume is) the giver's alma mater? 

I keep thinking about old movies where the business executive hands his secretary some money and tells her to go buy something for his wife's birthday.  Some wives would bristle at that, and some would be happy to receive any gift.  I'm in the former group.

No, not at all. I just think the kind and respectful thing to do would have been to wear it on the wedding day, or at the very least to acknowledge it. She could've worn it on the honeymoon. It's nothing to do with the price, in fact, I'm a little uncomfortable with that much money being spent. I just know when I give a gift to someone, it's nice for them to at least acknowledge that they received it.

[Mrs. Button]

 

Quote

 I just think the kind and respectful thing to do would have been to wear it on the wedding day, or at the very least to acknowledge it. She could've worn it on the honeymoon. It's nothing to do with the price, in fact, I'm a little uncomfortable with that much money being spent. I just know when I give a gift to someone, it's nice for them to at least acknowledge that they received it.

Everyone should be a gracious gift giver, and a gracious gift recipient ... neither of which we have seen in this particular gift exchange. In the end though, a gift should be just that ... a gift that you are bestowing out of the kindness of your heart, without expectation. A good response is the icing on the cake and solidifies the relationship, at least that's the general idea.

[StatisticalOutlier]

11 minutes ago, Mrs. Button said:

my nephew was murdered at Parkland and I think much of what his dad has done since then is for my nephew's legacy, although he may not vocalize it quite that way). I think legacy building is a beautiful, noble idea; what I find surprising is that it's taken so literally. You can still leave an amazing legacy with an adopted child;

It sounds like you're talking about the kind of legacy I was thinking of, while @Empress1's example was of a legacy as a synonym for inheritance, as in leaving a legacy to your children, which has become important to groups who heretofore didn't have an opportunity to amass wealth that they could leave to future generations.

And in that case, I can't imagine that if someone makes the effort to adopt a child, that child's being adopted would matter when it comes to leaving an inheritance to him, so I'm not sure that would give Vinny qualms about adopting.

But with the type of legacy I'm thinking of, at least a case could be made that if you're planning on having enduring effects of your existence, and if you're expecting your children to be involved, it's a safer bet to have biological children than take a chance on an adopted child.  (Plus anyone who's thinking in terms of leaving a mark on history probably has a high opinion of his DNA.)

Since Vinny was expressing hesitancy about adoption when talking about legacy, I'm afraid this is where he is, and I think it's kind of gross.  It's definitely where Chris would be.

 

[pdlinda]

30 minutes ago, Crashcourse said:

Or cubic zirconia, perhaps?  

.....or glass???

I still contend that if it were a bracelet with genuine precious metal and/or gemstones it would have come in a different type of box because jewelry at that price-point is a luxury gift that is often treasured and kept in an appropriate housing that is designed to last way into the future.

Also, the objection isn't about the price of the item...it's about the deception (lying by any other name...)  to further advance the argument each is making about the issue.

Final thought:  It's irrelevant and immaterial, IMO, to focus on any specific situation, like the bracelet/necklace, in this failed relationship.  It simply demonstrates that between these two there are "games" and "decoys to the truth" being practiced by BOTH that auger very poorly toward success as a couple.  

[Crashcourse]

8 minutes ago, pdlinda said:

Final thought:  It's irrelevant and immaterial, IMO, to focus on any specific situation, like the bracelet/necklace, in this failed relationship.  It simply demonstrates that between these two there are "games" and "decoys to the truth" being practiced by BOTH that auger very poorly toward success as a couple.  

Exactly.  

My hope is on Decision Day she returns the bracelet, he returns the hat, they shake hands and part ways.  Put us all out of our tv misery.

[StatisticalOutlier]

1 hour ago, gingerandcloves said:

She could've worn it on the honeymoon.

She couldn't, because it was in Alabama with her mother.  And for all we know she might have if she'd had it with her, but things went south pretty quickly so was a double non-issue--didn't have it, and if she had, she would have had to make sure she wore it before she had sex with him.

1 hour ago, Crashcourse said:

My hope is on Decision Day she returns the bracelet, he returns the hat, they shake hands and part ways.  Put us all out of our tv misery.

They showed her discovering the hat on her dresser.  Or maybe that was part of the "next week on..."?  Anyway, looks like he's shed himself of the $20 hat.

I think she should wear the bracelet on decision day, and tell him she needs the receipt to schedule it on her insurance policy. 

[Crashcourse]

11 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

They showed her discovering the hat on her dresser.  Or maybe that was part of the "next week on..."?  Anyway, looks like he's shed himself of the $20 hat.

Yeah, what I mean is that they should have a (hopefully) friendly "uncoupling ceremony" where they just return the gifts. 

[Medsed]

FYI

https://www.jared.com/diamond-infinity-bolo-bracelet-38-ct-tw-10k-white-gold/p/V-174020406

 

its 799 on sale.  If he went to a chain jeweler and did not negotiate he spent around that. 

[greeneyedscorpio]

On 4/15/2021 at 12:30 PM, Silver Bells said:

I may have said this before, but I’ll say it again.  Haley belongs with Erik.  She could sit shot gun and fly with him and travel all over.  He’ll entertain her with his bullshit as he’s smarter than her.

Everyone here should watch Unfiltered.  Haley is a different person.  She smiles and laughs the whole time.  So charming.  On the show, she’s crabby, rude and condescending when around Jake.  Always criticizing Jakes clothes, hair, shoes, shirts, everything.

I feel like Haley is being totally phony on Unfiltered.  She plasters this smile on her face that is not sincere.  I think it's because she's with others who are smiling, so she feels like she needs to also.  

I was absolutely chilled by the lack of empathy and compassion on Haley's part re: the bracelet.  Ok, give your side of the story, but is it so hard to understand that what you did hurt his feelings?  She just couldn't seem to grasp that.  Then when Dr. Pepper further explained it, she just seemed so blank.  That is a cold woman right there.  

[Lindz]

4 hours ago, Silver Bells said:

This quick way to get married is not the way to go.  It may seem good in the sense that it saves time, energy and money, but, you are missing the excitement of courtship, falling in love, and the anticipation of finally being together.  There is no romance here and I think romance is important to start a marriage.  Romance and love is the glue for a successful marriage hopefully.

I think the biggest thing that's missing is EXPERIENCE that CONNECTS them, building a foundation. Instant marriage is kinda like working backwards. Supposedly they're your match & that's incentive to make it work, but it still has to be figured out if they're a match & you can't run cuz of issues (like people typically do while dating).

[LuvMyShows]

I was initially very much Team Haley.  But I was really disgusted with her after the recent episode.  (For the record, I still find Jake creepy, and he is far from blameless.)

On 4/15/2021 at 6:56 PM, candall said:

And meanwhile, Haley is tragically short of self-awareness.  Every time anyone points out to her that she may have some responsibility in this clusterfuck, she's aghast.  The tarot card reader, the MAFS staff--god forbid she's following the comment threads.

23 hours ago, Retired at last said:

I don't think the issue is a lack of awareness with Haley. She OWNS the fact that she checks out, shuts down, and writes people off at first sight. Apparently, though, she just doesn't accept that those behaviors are unacceptable and immature, rude, and not in the least conducive to being in a relationship. 

The difference is in what area she has the lack of self-awareness.  The part that she self-admittedly owns is simple, specific, and has become part of her own narrative; she can easily call on it when discussing something interpersonal, and use it to sort of skirt taking genuine responsibility, "oh, I know that I shut down", and then leave it at that.  However, the part that she does not own is anything outside of her self-proclaimed deficiencies.  Her complete inability to understand the concept of hurt that Pepper was trying to explain, seemed to come from placing soooo much emphasis on justifying what she did (since she cannot be at fault) that she was unable to set that aside to understand what Jake was feeling, whether she agreed or not.  

22 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

But there was no reason to take it out of the box because she wasn't going to wear it because it wasn't appropriate with her dress, so it would actually be better to leave it in the box as it is. 

If I were in her position, and about to marry someone I knew nothing about, I damn sure would have taken it out of the box to see it completely, if for no other reason than to be seeing/holding something concrete about the mystery man I was about to meet.  And I absolutely would have wanted to check it thoroughly to see if there was some way that I could wear it.

15 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I think the point is that Jake really had no reason to take the bracelet incident personally in the first place and because of that Haley didn't think she needed to apologize, just explain why she didn't have it.  I mean, why apologize when she didn't do anything wrong?  That would just admit guilt that she did it on purpose when she did not, it was just a mistake. ........ What pisses me off about Dr. Pepper is that she wants Haley to validate Jake's hurt but what about the way he made Haley feel about something she never even intended?  

Perhaps it can be considered a mistake with what happened at the wedding, but her not getting the bracelet back at all was definitely not a mistake.  The fact that she never even considered getting it back is the hurt part, and that was not a mistake -- that is being so self-centered as to never even consider that someone who took time and effort to buy a gift, might have feelings about that gift being callously discarded (which was the effect).   Again, even if she disagreed with his being hurt, given that she thinks her reasoning explains it, she was unable to even understand any aspect of his being hurt.

On 4/15/2021 at 6:01 PM, Mrs. Button said:

But of course — and his ego was absolutely demolished over the fact she thought it was a necklace. It could absolutely not have been a simple mistake made during a hectic day, no it was a malicious effort to demean him. 

I don't think we saw anything to suggest that his ego took a hit over her thinking it was a bracelet.  I think he may have been slightly pissed that she didn't even take the time to find out, but any ego hit and hurt was about far more than her jewelry misclassification.

[Crashcourse]

Well, when he gets The Bracelet back, he can give to another woman he meets and he can monitor her every move to ensure she wears it and thanks him every.fucking.day.

Also, while I still feel for Haley for getting such a fucked up match, I'm sick of both of them and they are now in my Paige/Chris throwaway-don't-give-a-shit box. 

Edited April 17, 2021 by Crashcourse

[ECM1231]

@Mrs. Button, I am so very sorry for your great loss. 🤗

I don't think the $800 cost is too far off the mark. Maybe that was the retail price and Jake got it on sale. 14K gold is pretty pricy.  I like large earrings. You can't even get a decent size pair of 14K hoops for less than $200. I can see the bracelet costing that much, especially if it had little diamond chips.  I'm team Jake all the way but I do agree it was tacky of him to mention the price. I swear I must be dozing off while I watch the recording later in the evening, though, b/c I don't even remember seeing this conversation that Jake and Haley had about her not wearing the bracelet and its cost.

 

[Lindz]

It was RUDE & DISRESPECTFUL for Haley to leave the bracelet with her mom THIS WHOLE TIME!!! WHO DOES THAT?!! TERRIBLE!! She messed up not getting it back THIS WHOLE TIME!! He messed up taking her mistakes as intentional harms. That's really wrong & bizarre. It was very unproductive & unreasonable of Jake to constantly bring it up & expect her to read his mind & retrieve it. The way he talked about it, he said his opinion or confusion & she explained what happened. When it became clear she didn't get figure that he wanted it in their home (at least), he should've DIRECTLY told her that!! Hell! He could've scheduled its retrieval & delivery! EVERYONE knows CONSTANTLY complaining DOESN'T work!!! The same thing over & over & he expected something different to happen?? COME ON! 😂 I can't stand guys bringing up issues so passively (not saying there's a problem) with NO solutions, then turn around & get more upset cuz they're inept! SO STUPID!!

Edited April 17, 2021 by Lindz

[Vanderboom]

2 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

Exactly.  

My hope is on Decision Day she returns the bracelet, he returns the hat, they shake hands and part ways.  Put us all out of our tv misery.

Yes. I was ready for Jake and Haley to be over during the Paranoid Boyfriend Rant during the honeymoon. This show needs to offer a quick exit option--maybe letting troubled pairing do a one last shot counseling weekend, then move up decision day for them? That's better than spinning the wheels endlessly for ill-fated couples.

Ryan . . . I don't feel comfortable speculating on his sexual orientation (he might not even know himself), but he definitely has an issue that he needs to address with a counselor. Withholding sex, withholding the word "love," and stonewalling Clara all seem to be efforts to control. But if he's not okay with being married to someone he doesn't know, then why did he come on this show? I'm not the only one who thinks Ryan has more chemistry with Clara's mom, right?

I'd like to think that Paige is absent because she's currently arranging for an accomplice to throat-punch The Experts on Decision Day.

[Blissfool]

On 4/14/2021 at 7:53 PM, LennieBriscoe said:

Jake's been making some double entendres ("It's all about the smooth stroke") swooshing right over Haley's head. Or maybe I have a dirty mind, heh. 

You're not alone. I caught it too. Then right after that, he said, "Sometimes you just get a bad hole" and I was like this--->😳...but I wasn't mad 😄

[LuvMyShows]

6 minutes ago, Vanderboom said:

Ryan . . . I don't feel comfortable speculating on his sexual orientation (he might not even know himself), but he definitely has an issue that he needs to address with a counselor. Withholding sex, withholding the word "love," and stonewalling Clara all seem to be efforts to control. 

It was very interesting that he said he didn't want to get to the point of saying I Love You frequently because it would cheapen the words.  I wish Pepper had explored why he feels that the frequency cheapens it...rather than how when love grows, the words I Love You can actually mean more as time goes on.  

[LuvMyShows]

On 4/15/2021 at 8:10 AM, Jeanne222 said:

I have to wonder just how successful Vincent's business really is.  Is he making any money?  He has big dreams and lots of must haves but 'show me the money'!

I noticed something on the episode.  Although they blurred out GINny's high school name when they were playing basketball, they did clearly show, multiple times, the words on Vinny's too-tight white t-shirt.  It said VMR Enterprises, which is his company (according to Realitytidbit.com).  I went to the website, and there was nothing at all about the car brokering, but it appeared to be a company that picks up your car to take it for servicing, and then brings it back.

[Auntie Anxiety]

Jake and Haley know they aren’t suited for each other, but why be nasty and obnoxious about it? Couldn’t they just treat each other like you’d treat a person you barely know, with some courtesy and kindness? If Haley didn’t like the way Jake dressed and knowing from the jump that she wasn’t into him, she could have said, “Jake, you do you,” and not care. 

The bracelet is very symbolic for Jake. He gave her his trust, she took it, but then basically threw it away. She thought it was a joke. If a friend gives me a gift, I have it with me the next time we meet up, just to show I appreciate it. Never has to see the light of day after that, but that’s what a caring person does.

[Lindz]

33 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

It was very interesting that he said he didn't want to get to the point of saying I Love You frequently because it would cheapen the words.  I wish Pepper had explored why he feels that the frequency cheapens it...rather than how when love grows, the words I Love You can actually mean more as time goes on.  

Ya. That was weird. He said he didn't want it to lose its "value & purpose." Like. WTF?!! Uhhh. Did he mean to say he didn't want to say it when he doesn't mean it? So he wants to say & do what he "feels" so what is he doing to get there??? It looks like empty talk & no action on his part. Like he's building it up in his mind to be something that is completely unattainable.

[Lindz]

I'm wary of Vincent's motives to have children. Does he want them to heal the hurt of his childhood cuz that won't do it. Therapy will. & legacy? Again with the romanticized view. Who knows what they'll do or how long they'll live. His head is way too in the clouds. As far as lacking empathy, it can be tough for people, especially when you don't know what kind of conversation you're having.

[Lindz]

I'm glad Dr. Pepper followed up on their questions, even though I didn't see anything productive. They should have the spouses join right after the conversation cuz it's just a game of telephone gone wrong. 😅 They also need guidance on how to effectively communicate.

[StatisticalOutlier]

5 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

I went to the website, and there was nothing at all about the car brokering, but it appeared to be a company that picks up your car to take it for servicing, and then brings it back.

Interesting.  When he was explaining why he wanted to sleep late, he said he gets really tired from driving around all day, and I thought, "Why would a car broker be driving around all day?"