S01.E02: The Star-Spangled Man

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

John Walker is named Captain America, and Sam and Bucky team up against a rebel group.

Dropping Friday, March 26, 2021.

[paigow]

Walker is not a dancing monkey...but is a douchebag

[vb68]

That was very entertaining and went by super fast for me. Mackie and Stan have chemistry for days.

I love how they both have the same reaction to Walker and Sidekick. Sam and Bucky are much more alike than either wants to say. I think they know it deep down, though. It's there in the grudging respect.

I have to say I thought Bucky would get Sam's perspective on giving up the Shield after the scene with the police in the street. That scene laid it all out there and spoke volumes.

The train fight was thrilling.

As for Walker? Meh. He acts like he's earned it instead of just being given the Shield. He's way too cocky. I think the government or military or whoever chose the guy missed the part about Steve's character being an intrinsic part of the Captain America persona.   

Therapy was too forced imo. They were starting to bond more without it. Still it was entertaining. I love watching Bucky react to stuff, especially when he's annoyed. Sidekick's name being a perfect example. "Stop. The. Car."

Always good to see Carl Lumbly in anything. He brought some gravitas.  

Edited March 26, 2021 by vb68

[paigow]

These Flag Smashers did not read the Serum warnings...

• Does not make you bulletproof

ETA: No post credit scene...again!

Edited March 26, 2021 by paigow

[Jeebus Cripes]

The part where they had to pull in close during the therapy session cracked me the hell up. Also, Sam thanking her for, "making it weird" at the end. 

[paigow]

Looks like Howard Stark was hiding blood from Peggy Carter...

[Ailianna]

I thought the grenade question and answer were particularly illuminating. Bucky asked if Walker ever there himself in a grenade--really meaning, did you ever put your life and flesh in a situation where you would lose them to save others? Walker answered that he's done it four times--then adds, though it was cut off a bit, that he used some special helmet to do so. Meaning the actual answer to the actual question is no. That's the feeling I got from him all episode--that he was the kind of person Dr. Erskine warned about--a man who has always had power and doesn't respect it.  The way he dodged around the question from the reporter about knowing Steve. Real Captain America would just answer with something like "No, but I've always admired his work and would have been honored to meet him." This guy is acting like he has done something to earn the shield, but I think the truth is that you don't just get the shield and boom. Because Steve was Captain America when he did that first rescue of Bucky (and 150 or so others) before he ever had the shield. It's about the person behind the shield, who makes the shield mean sinethibg, not the shield making the man.

[TiffanyNichelle]

I wish the episodes were longer. When we got to the end I still wanted just a little bit more.

RIP Redwing. Sam was the only one who liked you but you will be missed. By Sam. Not Bucky. 

I don't know if it's the lack of a beard on Wyatt Russell but he is selling secret asshole. Like he thinks he's the good guy who worked so hard but there's a little bit of entitlement there. Canceling Bucky's therapy because he wants him on his mission even though Bucky had already made it very clear (in words and intense stares) that he's not interested. And then trying to claim Sam and Bucky as his inherited "wingmen" since he was the new Cap. Get out of here. He's not as humble as he pretends. 

I freaking love that they are bringing in Isaiah Bradley. Does that mean maybe an Eli Bradley appearance as well to set up Young Avengers. Also does anyone think they had his wartime appearance be in the Korean War to say he got his serum after Steve instead of before Steve like in the comics? That feels a little like a cop out that way. 

[SeanC]

33 minutes ago, TiffanyNichelle said:

Also does anyone think they had his wartime appearance be in the Korean War to say he got his serum after Steve instead of before Steve like in the comics? That feels a little like a cop out that way. 

That was retconned in the comics too (the original Isaiah Bradley story never actually fit the comics timeline anyway).

Granted that this is all still early, but the worldbuilding in this series remains rather shaky.  The supposed differences between the pre- and post-Blip periods don't seem to really fit with what we were shown before.  Nor am I really sure how Bucky knows so much about Isaiah or where he lives, etc., if all that happened is he fought him once in Korea.

[Spartan Girl]

Now things are picking up!

Steve would be turning in his grave at that football game. Good. Yeah, I’m petty, so what?

The opening scene with Walker briefly made me wonder if we misjudged him, but as the episode went on, he got more douchey and annoying.

Sam and Bucky bickering nonstop — this was the show I signed up for! The therapy session alone was priceless. Once again, I love the therapist.

A mention of Sharon. Nice that Sam at least remembers her and how she stuck her neck out for them only to become an enemy of the state.

Poor Isaiah. I don’t blame him for being bitter.

So they’re going to go see Zemo in prison? Guess he’s not behind the group after all...or maybe he is. Either way this show better not do a stupid redemption arc for him: dead family doesn’t justify killing other innocent people just to screw with the Avengers, asshole.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Spartan Girl

[tv echo]

Another enjoyable episode...

John Walker started off somewhat sympathetic with his doubts and insecurity, but then he became so unlikeable in his own right. His press interview comments came off as fake and practiced (I was reminded of Peeta's interviews in The Hunger Games). I didn't like that they found the Flag-Smashers by tracking Sam (through Redwing). I especially didn't like that Walker referred to Sam and Bucky 'as "Cap's wingmen" and wanted them to become his wingmen. I hated the modernized version of the Captain America song ("The Star-Spangled Man with a Plan"). However, I have to say that Wyatt Russell is a decent actor.  

I found it somewhat off-putting that the new white Captain America has his own black sidekick partner, Battlestar.  I especially hated that Walker got Bucky out of therapy for his own purposes and didn't care about Bucky's mental health. He was only interested in using Bucky to be part of his support team.

I liked Bucky's reaction to the new Cap. I liked that he knew exactly where to find Sam. I liked that Bucky read The Hobbit in 1937 "when it first came out." I found his distrust of Redwing - a drone - hilarious. 

I liked Sam and Bucky's staring contest in the plane (and later in their therapy session). I liked that Bucky jumped out of the airplane without a parachute just like Steve did, but less gracefully. And that Sam got it all on film.

All of Sam and Bucky's scenes were fun to watch. 

Sam: "Look at you. All stealthy. A little time in Wakanda and you come out White Panther."
Bucky: "It's actually White Wolf."
Sam: "Huh?"

Bucky must be out of practice or holding back, because he should've been able to take down those Flag-Smashers on top of the train easily. Even though these particular Flag-Smashers are super-enhanced, Bucky has decades of assassin training and experience. That should count for something. Maybe Bucky knows best how to kill but he's trying not to kill.

I'm undecided about the female Flag-Smasher, Karli. It often seems that the one leading a cause is the one most willing to let others sacrifice themselves.

I liked the new character, Isaiah, and found it interesting that he fought Bucky in 1951. Also more confirmation of the Winter Soldier's deadly past (Isaiah: "Everyone they sent after him never came back").  So more super soldiers in the past. As usual, there were shameful secrets.

That scene on the street with the police said it all.

And... cue Zemo. Aargh! The episode ends and it's another week of waiting.

Edited March 26, 2021 by tv echo

[paigow]

Looks like Zemo is still in prison... and becomes the Reggie Hammond character....

[Llywela]

2 hours ago, paigow said:

Looks like Howard Stark was hiding blood from Peggy Carter...

Not necessarily. We know that super serum is a thing that many people have been trying to develop since the 40s right through to the present. It stands to reason that Dr Erskine wouldn't be the only person capable of success, even if his formula was the absolute best there has ever been. We already know from Bucky's experience that Hydra developed their own version as long ago as WWII, highly effective but not quite the same as the serum used for Steve. It is just as likely that the serum used on these new guys was a variant of Bucky's than Steve's. Or even another version again, developed independently.

I'm enjoying the show. I enjoy the grudging rapport between Sam and Bucky. The unfolding story is interesting enough to hold my attention. I just wish there were more women in it! It's all such a dude-fest so far.

Between this and Solo, Erin Kellyman seems to be making quite the career out of playing radical freedom-fighters!

[AimingforYoko]

Isaiah effing Bradley. He better not be a one-off.

Walker started out fine, but the douche started coming out the more we encountered him. But due respect, he definitely could work the shield.

Rule 32: The band was playing the up-tempo version of Cap's WWII theme.

[Hana Chan]

How do you know that you're really enjoying a show? When the end credits start rolling and you're yelling "No!" and hitting the button to pull up the episode list only to have your heart broken when you see that you now have to wait an entire week.

There was so much packed in this episode, starting off with our first really good look at Cosplay Cap. I'm glad that they are giving us a better understanding of who Walker is and while I appreciated the humanizing touch, he did nothing to make me believe that he was worthy to polish Steve's shield, let alone wield it. For all his initial uncertainty (and who wouldn't be under these circumstances), he did fall into his assumed role relatively quickly as a propaganda tool. And it's obvious that the government missed the memo of why Steve was so iconic. Tossing a decorated soldier into the costume and calling him Captain America doesn't mean that Walker is in any way ready to step into Steve's oversized shoes. Steve wasn't amazing because he was a talented soldier with a perfect physique - he became the man who he was when he was anything but perfect. Nothing about this felt right. When he called Bucky too valuable an "asset" to be allowed to remain on the sidelines really, really rubbed me the wrong way since HYDRA called Bucky "The Asset". Walker might feel that he's extended enough olive branches to Sam and Bucky and seemed rather exasperated that they weren't accepting him in the role that he was given (and in their eyes, hadn't earned).

And I'm going to give the show credit for diving headfirst into some very difficult questions about race and privilege's. Sam was reluctant to take up the mantle of Captain America because he's not an iconic super soldier, yet a white man with no greater qualifications (far less IMO) is embraced in the role. Steve returns from the ice and is celebrated and thrown into active service as an Avenger while a black super soldier was imprisoned and medically abused when he was no longer of any use to the government. Sam is a hero in his own right, but is harassed by the police and is only let off the hook when they recognize that he's an Avenger, no because he wasn't doing anything more than having a heated conversation. Walker's sidekick is a black man who's probably as talented a soldier as he is, but pays second fiddle to the white man.

The moment with the kids calling Sam "Black Falcon" and Sam correcting him really shows how complicated these questions about race and identity are. On one hand, representation is so critical but at the same time, it can't be the be all, end all of identity. I'm hoping that the show will continue to handle these issues with the same sensitivity. 

The show also isn't afraid to show how gray and muddled a lot of these discussions can be. Sam rips into Bucky about the question of rights while momentarily forgetting how many years Bucky had absolutely zero rights as a human being. The Flagsmashers may have certain ideas that I can agree with politically, but their lack of care for those that returned from the Blip and had their lives totally upended through no fault of their own makes me less sympathetic towards their motives. Isiah has more than enough reasons to be bitter about how the government treated him, using him an an experiment to recreate the serum (which brings up all kinds of uncomfortable real history reminders) and then discarding him because they certainly weren't going to celebrate a black super soldier. But he took his justifiable anger out on someone who was even more of a victim than he was makes it clear than in a lot of these discussions there really won't be a winner. No one was entirely right or wrong and it takes a lot of courage for a show to allow all these shades of gray to enter its story pallet. 

 The chemistry between Anthony and Sebastian is amazing and I love the interactions between Sam and Bucky. From the initial moment when Bucky rips into Sam and inserts himself into Sam's mission, it's a match made in... well, not Heaven but certainly is inspired. I love the banter between the two of them still showing just how raw things are. Bucky's rejection of Sam calling him by his nickname because he's not Steve and hasn't earned the privilege and the less than friendly teasing shows that they're not just going to fall into the same pattern as Steve had with either of them. They're going to be finding their own dynamic as partners. And man... did they kick one another where it hurts more than a few times. Bucky's accusations at the beginning of the episode hit Sam right in the heart of his insecurities about his worthiness and introducing Sam to Isiah was, I believe, trying to show Sam that he can and should envision himself in the role of hero. That maybe the world is overdue for a black man to carry the mantle of representing the ideals of the country.

Bucky really took it all in the feels this time. We're seeing just how short a leash he's on where the government is concerned and that despite everything, he's still being seen more as a HYDRA defector than an actual victim of what was done to him. He gets arrested for missing a mandated therapy session. Isiah considers HYDRA to be Bucky's "people". And Bucky revealed just how deep his pain went during his therapy session. He's so damaged and in so much pain and Steve leaving him clearly pulled away what little emotional rug he had under his feet.

As much as I enjoyed WandaVision, this series seems so much stronger because it's hitting a lot of very deep emotional notes that carry over into the real world. Whereas WandaVision sometimes felt like they were trying to be clever for it's own sake, here all of the action comes second to really tapping into the emotional story of Sam and Bucky. These are two characters that really deserve the exploration they're finally receiving. 

[Hana Chan]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

I liked Bucky's reaction to the new Cap. I liked that he knew exactly where to find Sam. I liked that Bucky read The Hobbit in 1937 "when it first came out." I found his distrust of Redwing - a drone - hilarious. 

Bucky had so many great moments in this episode. First, sitting on the floor watching his television - Sam needs to take him to Ikea and having him get some proper furniture already. Jumping out of the plane and landing hard (it's so much easier when you're landing in water to cushion the impact). Swatting at Redwing and seeming pleased when Redwing got broken.

And I liked the reminder that back in his early days Bucky had a love of science fiction and fantasy. That he wanted to see all of Howard Starks amazing technology on the last night before he got shipped out. The person that had a liking for whimsy might still be there.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Hana Chan

[swanpride]

Quote

Looks like Howard Stark was hiding blood from Peggy Carter

I doubt it. It was established in the show that there were more vials of blood and Howard got one of this, and the Military "Squandered" the others. They never clarified on what they squandered it. Peggy's was the last and by throwing it away she most likely prevented a lot of suffering, but it was not the only one by a long shot.

And Bucky is right, it is better if Steve never learns about this.

Anyway, great episode, and I guess now there is no doubt anymore what they want to address. I mean, Walker is basically a walking white privilege, thinking that he earned something which was actually handed to him. That's the thing with Steve, he might have looked like the all-American poster boy after his transformation, but he actually know what it meant to be on the other side of the fence, even though he was rejected by society for very different reasons than skin colour.

And the scene with the police officers was just painful on every level...how they assumed that Sam was the problem, telling him to calm down when they were basically harassing him for no reason (I mean, Bucky wasn't even a Karen), then changing their tune when they realised who Sam was and then overly friendly explaining Bucky that they have to take him in (most likely the first time in the neighbourhood that the black man stays back on the street and the white man is taken away).

 

[Ailianna]

Two questions on the first rewatch (yes, already!). Why was Walker in an Army uniform before he put on the Captain America one at the football stadium?

What happened to the helicopter that brought them to the trucks? And with that, why no other support? No other guys in the chopper, not even a gunner? One lone guy in a jeep following them around in case they lose their helicopter and need a ride? None of those logistics make sense.

[swanpride]

Regarding the Football stadium: I really appreciate them picking up The Star Spangled Man again, and how they distorted it to ensure that it feels wrong from the get go. Also, nice trick to have him in his hometown, knowing perfectly well that the people living were would be too proud that "one of them" made it. Anywhere the enthusiasm might be way more dimmed about this guy who thinks that he is someone great because he jumped on a grenade with protection.... 

[Hana Chan]

4 hours ago, Ailianna said:

It's about the person behind the shield, who makes the shield mean sinethibg, not the shield making the man.

Bingo! You win the prize. This is what Erskine was saying all along before Steve was selected for the program. You can give someone all of the powers and tools but if they're a douche beforehand, than all you're going to end up with is a super-powered, super-entitled douche. Steve was brave and self-sacrificing when he as a 95 pound twig. Walker might not be a bad guy, but he didn't have to overcome what Steve did and does come across being more than a little entitled as things progressed. 

1 hour ago, swanpride said:

Anywhere the enthusiasm might be way more dimmed about this guy who thinks that he is someone great because he jumped on a grenade with protection.... 

Still remembering tiny Steve throwing himself on a grenade while all the big "brave" soldiers ran for cover.

 

Edited March 26, 2021 by Hana Chan

[swanpride]

Minus Peggy, naturally. She run in the direction of the grenade, too.

[Llywela]

1 hour ago, Ailianna said:

Two questions on the first rewatch (yes, already!). Why was Walker in an Army uniform before he put on the Captain America one at the football stadium?

Because he is a soldier, currently serving. His service record is part of the reason he was chosen as the new Captain America. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

11 hours ago, TiffanyNichelle said:

I freaking love that they are bringing in Isaiah Bradley. Does that mean maybe an Eli Bradley appearance as well to set up Young Avengers. 

I was operating under the assumption that the kid who answered the door might be Eli. 

8 hours ago, Ailianna said:

Two questions on the first rewatch (yes, already!). Why was Walker in an Army uniform before he put on the Captain America one at the football stadium?

What happened to the helicopter that brought them to the trucks? And with that, why no other support? No other guys in the chopper, not even a gunner? One lone guy in a jeep following them around in case they lose their helicopter and need a ride? None of those logistics make sense.

As someone said, Walker is in the Army now. So if he's not going to be in his Cap uniform, he reasonably might be wearing his Army one.

I would say they were overconfident. Surely there are not that many groups of five to eight people who can stand up to the might of Captain America, Battlestar AND the Falcon and the Winter Soldier?

Another question is why Walker didn't just shoot the super-soldiers. (Or vice-versa). The real-world answer is because it's a comic book series and it would be less exciting if either side mowed the other down. But I don't see there being a good in-universe explanation, especially when Walker did have a gun that he fired once.

[swanpride]

Question: What was Bucky's issue with "Battlestar"? Didn't get that, but maybe I am missing context here...

The whole Germany scene was a little bit uncanny valley for me. Mostly because of the name on the trucks, though. "Osnabrück GmbH" is basically the equivalent to calling a company "Detroit Limited" You can't just name your company after a city without adding something else to it.

Also, is it intentional that the symbol of the flag smashers kind of looks like various left-wing symbols?

Is Bucky still wearing his original tags? Or are those new ones? If those are his original ones, where did he get them back?

 

[Chicago Redshirt]

I think Bucky's issue with Battlestar is that it is a ridiculously self-important codename, and it emphasizes the sense he already had that he didn't want to be working with the clown who tried to take the image, rep and shield of his best friend when he's trying to pair up with Battlestar.

[magdalene]

Wyatt Russell is a good actor, well, it runs on both sides in the family.  He looks so much like his dad. So, Walker is not so much evil as an asshole? 

At least that's my guess for now.

[swanpride]

I am pretty sure he will become more and more of an a-hole when the story continues. You don't give guys like this power and adoration without expecting them to snap eventually. This episode, he wanted something from Sam and Bucky and acted accordingly. Now that their thoroughly rejected him, gloves will most likely come off.

[absnow54]

5 hours ago, TiffanyNichelle said:

RIP Redwing. Sam was the only one who liked you but you will be missed. By Sam. Not Bucky. 

Somewhere, from the great beyond, Natasha is swatting away Redwing and rolling her eyes.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

3 hours ago, tv echo said:

Bucky must be out of practice or holding back, because he should've been able to take down those Flag-Smashers on top of the train easily. Even though these particular Flag-Smashers are super-enhanced, Bucky has decades of assassin training and experience. That should count for something. Maybe Bucky knows best how to kill but he's trying not to kill.

I think that's it, he doesn't want to kill anyone, even by accident. He told Isaiah "I'm not a killer anymore" and asked Dr. Raynor (Rainer?) what the second rule was. "Not to hurt anyone." Plus they didn't even know the Flag Smashers were enhanced until it was too late. Bucky thought Karli was a hostage when she first emerged from between the crates, and then she smiled at him and pitched him halfway out of the truck and onto the road. "That little girl just kicked your ass!" Heh.

3 hours ago, Hana Chan said:

But he took his justifiable anger out on someone who was even more of a victim than he was makes it clear than in a lot of these discussions there really won't be a winner. No one was entirely right or wrong and it takes a lot of courage for a show to allow all these shades of gray to enter its story pallet.

"You think you can just wake up one day and be someone different? Doesn't work like that. Well...maybe it does for your people."

Looked at in a different way, Isaiah wasn't only talking about Hydra, he was talking about Bucky being white. For all that Bucky is new to the world again, the difference between the way the cops initially treated Sam and ended up treating Bucky would have been the same if it was Isaiah standing out in his yard having the same angry conversation with Barnes. Also, how many of his friends must the Winter Solider have killed? "Everyone they ever sent after him never came back" doesn't give much information about how many  Someones there were, but I imagine it was more than a few. It would be unrealistic for a man in Isaiah's position to not be hella bitter that this guy is in his house asking question, and with a new arm, no less. So clearly someone had been looking after him. Not so much for Isaiah.

[festivus]

Goddamn this show is good. For anyone thinking that racism wasn't going to be front and center.....

 

More thoughts later.

[VCRTracking]

I wish Mark Gruenwald was alive for this.

[paigow]

27 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Not so much for Isaiah.

At some point, he should be dropped off in Wakanda for useful & effective medical treatment...

[cambridgeguy]

2 hours ago, Hana Chan said:

Still remembering tiny Steve throwing himself on a grenade while all the big "brave" soldiers ran for cover.

Running from a damned grenade doesn't make you a coward unless you shove a bunch of people in front of you to act like a shield.  It's not you're Steve/Peggy levels of awesome or a loser, with nothing in between.  Those soldiers still enlisted to fight in a war and it wasn't just an excuse to go shoot lots of people with government backing. 

And the MCU really does lack petty villians if not having a secret identity somehow doesn't result in your family being kidnapped or killed.

 

[notagain]

The flag smashers as the big bad is not working for me. I don't care for their political beliefs, and the show is not helping, this entire episode juxtaposed their “ One people, One world” against American’s methodology,  “many people under one flag”. America’s isn't working, so why would the Flag Smashers’ theology work any better. 

Edited March 26, 2021 by notagain

[Cobalt Stargazer]

1 minute ago, cambridgeguy said:

Running from a damned grenade doesn't make you a coward unless you shove a bunch of people in front of you to act like a shield.

Honestly? Steve was not a good soldier. A hero to be sure, but he was a lousy soldier. If that grenade had been live, he'd have gotten himself killed before he could even become Captain America, so he lucked out that it was just a test.

[paigow]

3 minutes ago, notagain said:

The flag smashers as the big bad is not working for me.

They are not...The Powerbroker is...

[calliope1975]

I would watch 5 seasons (1/2 hour eps) of Bucky and Sam having therapy. Rise WinterFalcon rise. I'd also like a series or movie (not picky) on Isaiah Bradley's life.

I know Fury didn't know about Hydra's infiltration, and I'm guessing he didn't know about Isaiah either. I definitely can't see him sitting on that info. 

I'm glad they aren't shying away from race. Half the population disappears and returns but we gotta keep up that good ole racism! I'm on the fence about the Flag Smashers. They obviously think they're doing a good thing, and they've pissed off someone who's presumably dangerous. 

And Wyatt Russell is doing a great job of almost being a good guy but getting douchier by the minute. I'm interested to see where he'll land on the hero to villain spectrum when this is over. 

 

 

[Chicago Redshirt]

24 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Honestly? Steve was not a good soldier. A hero to be sure, but he was a lousy soldier. If that grenade had been live, he'd have gotten himself killed before he could even become Captain America, so he lucked out that it was just a test.

He wasn't just a good soldier. He was a super soldier!

Seriously, it depends on the parameters you use. Being willing to sacrifice yourself in order to spare 10-20 of your colleagues seems like it is both heroic and being a good soldier. I suppose that an even better soldier would have seen through the test (how dafaq is there a live grenade that has been thrown in this training camp? It must be a ploy).

Edited March 26, 2021 by Chicago Redshirt

[festivus]

There is so much to unpack with this episode so I'll start with my favorite scene. I was literally holding my breath during the Isaiah Bradley scene. The visceral anger at what happened to him. If anyone could understand it would be Bucky but at the end of the day, he's still white. Isaiah was sent after someone he thought was Russian (still white) and comes back to be buried and experimented on while Bucky gets a pardon. 

Then you go to the scene outside where Bucky, the white man, has to say, "Don't you know who this is?" for those cops to even stop and think. Microaggressions in the first episode to the blatant racism in this one. Well done, show.

[calliope1975]

3 minutes ago, festivus said:

I was literally holding my breath during the Isaiah Bradley scene. The visceral anger at what happened to him.

I was, too! It was such a great scene and then to think that Steve has a freaking Smithsonian exhibit and Isaiah was used, abused, and thrown away. Infuriating. And all too accurate and realistic. 

[Danny Franks]

Oh, so John Walker was the high school QB, a clean cut, all-American boy who has always succeeded. Just what Captain America... isn't. Where's the adversity and the underdog spirit that made Steve the special person he was? I guess that's the problem, and exactly what Dr. Erskine wanted to avoid in the first place.

This 'Cap' is a guy who expects to be adored and expects to always have things go his way, because he's never failed before, never been found wanting. He's giving me some mild Homelander vibes.

I'm glad we go to see Bucky's reaction, that seething anger at someone stepping into Steve's boots. I love that he's acting as the protector of Steve's wishes rather than of Captain America's legacy.

The Big Three made me laugh. Sam lampshading Marvel tropes and Bucky proudly declaring he read The Hobbit when it came out, then bickering over the definition of a wizard. These two are best friends and they don't even know it yet. Bucky seems to come to life with Sam, even if it's in an antagonistic way, and it's clear he needs this personal connection.

The fight scene on top of the truck wasn't great, even before Fake Cap turned up. The effects were just a little off, the speed of certain shots was either too fast or too slow. Also, can we not have Bucky constantly get beaten up so Sam can laugh about it? This guy is still a military veteran who spent decades as the deadliest assassin in the world. I get that he's holding back because he doesn't want to hurt people, but if he's going to go into the field he needs to be prepared to fight.

"Battlestar? Stop the car!" made me laugh. Bucky really doesn't have time for all this costume and posturing bullshit. And stealing the shield back is exactly what Bucky did in the comics, to stop SHIELD from creating another Captain America. Again, he does it because he wants to honour Steve, not the mantle of Captain America.

The Isaiah Bradley stuff... yes! I'm so glad they kept this in the story. The dark legacy of Captain America, the secret shame at the heart of America's proudest hero and a riff on the real, and very awful, experiments performed on African-American soldiers by the US military. Isaiah was completely fucked over by an ungrateful country, to the surprise of no one. "Folks like you" definitely stings, but we can at least see that Bucky didn't get quite the free ride that Isaiah assumes he got. The man is a prisoner as well, just on a much longer leash.

"One world, one people" still seems like a pretty good message to me. A group of young people representing the disenfranchised generation? Hard to see them as villains. And maybe they aren't. I'm intrigued about this Power Broker character - someone who apparently wants to divide the world rather than unite it. With this guy and Hayward in Wandavision, it seems like the US government is gearing up to be the big bad.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Danny Franks

[thuganomics85]

So, we get some glimpses into this "New Captain America"; John Walker; and... it's pretty much going the way I expected.  To be fair, I'm sure he truly is/was a good solider in a lot of ways and I'm sure in his mind, he really thinks he is doing the right thing and paying homage to the original.  But it is clear as day that he doesn't have the temperament, honorability, and humanity that Steve possessed that truly made him the Cap.  It really was the little things that showed who John really is: the way he handled the interview, referring to Bucky and Sam as Steve's "wingmen", canceling Bucky's therapy for his own gain, etc.  Being put on a pedestal like this is already corrupting him, and I suspect it will only get worse once he gains more power and influence.  Wyatt Russell is doing a good job with all of this and it kind of helps that he really does look like his dad in a lot of ways.  I could totally see Kurt pulling this off decades ago (and he actually did pull off a similar "nice on the outside, but inside... yikes!" role as Ego on Guardians of the Galaxy 2.)

Glad that Sam and Bucky are already teaming up again, and both Anthony Mackie and Sebastian Stan continue to deliver on all fronts.  Amongst all the banter and even straight-up arguments, you can really see the commodore between the two, and how they might understand one another in some ways that others; even Steve; can't/couldn't.  They're actually a lot of like in ways they probably don't want to admit (at least out loud.)  Really glad that this show is going to give them the opportunity to be front and center with it.

I'm sure some on the net will complain about them bringing up racial issues again, but it sadly wouldn't not surprise me if Sam would still be treated like this in real life, despite his heroics and bravery.  What was noticeable was that you could clearly hear Bucky say several times that Sam wasn't bothering him and he wasn't feeling threaten, but the cops just would not listen and zoomed in on Sam as a threat, since all they saw was a black man arguing with a white one.  And then once they realized who Sam really was, then it was all stammering and half-hearted apologies.  Suspect Sam has had to deal with this all of his life.

Not familiar with this Isaiah Bradley character, but I hope we see him again, because his whole story and background was fascinating and heartbreaking.  Plus, Carl Lumbly can class up any joint!

Curious to know more about Lemar/Battlestar.  Always good seeing Cle Bennett, although he's usually in shows made in Canada, so I guess he got to cross the border this time!

Bucky bringing up that he read The Hobbit when it first came out was great.  Hipster!

The Flag Smashers seem to have a few enemies there.  Still not sure what to make of them, but I like the idea of them focusing on the people who survived the Blip and feel forgotten due to all of the people that returned post-Blip.  I can see that causing conflicts if the Blip (or something similar) happened in real life, and a group like the Flag Smashers taking advantage of that.

Sam and Bucky think Hydra might be involved somehow, so there next quest is to pay a visit to.... Zemo!  Yep, that should be fun! 

[MochaJay]

5 hours ago, tv echo said:

Another enjoyable episode...

John Walker started off somewhat sympathetic with his doubts and insecurity, but then he became so unlikeable in his own right....

I found it somewhat off-putting that the new white Captain America has his own black sidekick partner, Battlestar.  I especially hated that Walker got Bucky out of therapy for his own purposes and didn't care about Bucky's mental health. He was only interested in using Bucky to be part of his support team.

I was a little surprised to see the new Cap with multi-racial friends and family. I hadn’t expected a full on white extremist, but I guess I was expecting someone who existed in a white space and only related to white peers. But the racism lies in the government officials that picked Walker and Hoskins. It’s like they looked at Steve’s ASO-era propaganda films and thought the message to share is that difficult times need a white man in charge and everybody else falling in line behind, not acknowledging that what was progressive in WWII is regressive nearly a century later.

As Captain America, Walker stands for the version of the country that is American Exceptionalism. I don’t think he’s ever been challenged in the assumption that he’s the good guy, because he’s always been the best & brightest in every room; the high school football star, the war hero. He’s not been on a journey, and I fear he’s primed for a fall arc.

5 hours ago, tv echo said:

  That scene on the street with the police said it all.

Plus the kids immediately recognizing Sam without context, because he’s a hero and role model.

 Race in the show is more Sam’s character arc, but you get something interesting when Bucky is standing next to him; it shows individual vs group. On the one hand Bucky has the advantages of his group (right down to ‘just show them your ID’), but the profiling of Sam ends with Bucky being taken away in handcuffs & Isaiah decried what happened to him to Buck, who was also imprisoned and tortured. Bucky is not typical of the experiences of his group; the further Sam steps into being Captain America / an Avenger, the less typical his experiences, which is part of what Sam has to reckon with in becoming a symbol.

1 hour ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

I think that's it, he doesn't want to kill anyone, even by accident. He told Isaiah "I'm not a killer anymore" and asked Dr. Raynor (Rainer?) what the second rule was. "Not to hurt anyone." 

His line about not being a killer anymore is something he's been saying since CW. But after he asked that questions to the shrink he said a final-sounding goodbye. Maybe we’ll see a shift to more violence if he’s decided that completing this mission means not holding back.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

5 minutes ago, MochaJay said:

 

 Race in the show is more Sam’s character arc, but you get something interesting when Bucky is standing next to him; it shows individual vs group. On the one hand Bucky has the advantages of his group (right down to ‘just show them your ID’), but the profiling of Sam ends with Bucky being taken away in handcuffs & Isaiah decried what happened to him to Buck, who was also imprisoned and tortured. Bucky is not typical of the experiences of his group; the further Sam steps into being Captain America / an Avenger, the less typical his experiences, which is part of what Sam has to reckon with in becoming a symbol.

What Bucky hasn't been is discarded, though. The royal family of Wakanda helped him personally, even after he was suspected of killing their father/husband/the last king. They gave him sanctuary and a place to rest, deactivated the programming that made him dangerous, and as far as I know never requested his help in dealing with the usurper who tried to take the throne. They replaced his destroyed mechanical arm with a better one, and they may well have used some of their new clout on the world stage to help secure his pardon. He is on a very short leash, as was mentioned upthread, but I would think anyone would want to keep close tabs on him and not leave him to his own devices too much. He's not living in a possibly questionable neighborhood where he has to have his son (grandson? I don't know) run interference for him so he doesn't have to deal with strangers, to say nothing of ghosts from his past. Sam didn't even know the guy existed, and he didn't know because Bucky didn't tell him. Or Steve. Unlike Bucky, Isaiah was forgotten, and he has no special help in the present either. I'd be pissed off too.

[Minneapple]

They started out Fake Cap as being pretty sympathetic, but it quickly became clear he's a massive jackass. Also I gasped when he used the gun. That was so jarring.

Anthony Mackie and Sebastian Stan have brilliant chemistry. Sebastian is perfect at playing Bucky, barely hanging on by a thread.

[Dandesun]

Steve wasn't a good soldier. He was a good man. That was the whole fucking point. And the best things he did were without permission. He chased down the Hydra agent single-handedly and prevented Hydra from taking what was left of Erskine's formula but was then told that he wasn't enough. So they dressed him up in tights and sent him on the road to sell war bonds... because he looked the part. But we all know what happened... he got wind that Bucky was in trouble and he went to Go. Get. His. Man!!

I did find the parallels interesting between Steve and John. Steve was not military, John is highly decorated. John practicing his lines took me back to Steve with his lines taped to the back of his prop shield. And you just see Bucky's fury at all of it... because Steve wasn't Captain America because he had the shield and the suit. He was Captain America because he told the entire US military to go piss up a rope to go save the friend who always had his back. He was Captain America because he could do this all day. And he would. So this... GUY... wearing a suit and saying all the right words and having his military career highlighted and having a sidekick with a ridiculous name is just too god damn much. "I read The Hobbit when it first came out! What are you even talking about with this BATTLESTAR bullshit!!"

And yet... the real moment came when Bucky took Sam to task for giving up the shield. 'Steve believed in you. Steve trusted you. He gave that shield to you and you just threw it away. So maybe he was wrong about you and if he was wrong about you then he was wrong about me!'

I mean, that just gutted me because that goes back to everything Steve went through to save Bucky... repeatedly. "I'm not sure I'm worth all of this, Steve."

Sam and Bucky feeling like they can't live up to Steve's belief in them when all that mattered to Steve was that they just be who they are.

Excuse me while I go cry in a corner for a million years.

Sam did what he thought was right and said so. Honestly? I believe Steve would accept that.

John Walker relegating them both to Steve's wingmen... GAAAAAAH! (There are some verbal affectations Wyatt comes out with that are so Kurt Russel they make me jump a little. It's amazing.) Steve would be the first to say that they are both heroes in their own right. STEVE CHOSE SAM TO TAKE THE SHIELD, YOU ASS! SAM IS NOT YOUR WINGMAN!!!!

I was full on blown away that they had Isaiah in the show. That was some powerful shit. Bucky taking Sam there to show him that he absolutely COULD be Captain America and, oh yeah, that serum has in fact been around for awhile. I, too, wonder which one it was. Obviously not Erskine's, as they've never been able to replicate that but Hydra was a part of Shield for a LONG time and while it's easy to say 'Oh it was Hydra that locked Isaiah up and experimented on him' we know it didn't have to be Hydra. And it likely wasn't. It's very on brand for the United States government to use persons of color as guinea pigs so that a white person can get the benefit in the end.

*grinds teeth*

I found it very interesting that Bucky never told Steve about Isaiah. Steve would have been FURIOUS. Maybe would have dismantled another institution in his rage over what was done to Isaiah.

Holy shit, did Zemo get an entrance or WHAT?!

 

 

Edited March 26, 2021 by Dandesun

[Hana Chan]

59 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Seriously, it depends on the parameters you use. Being willing to sacrifice yourself in order to spare 10-20 of your colleagues seems like it is both heroic and being a good soldier. I suppose that an even better soldier would have seen through the test (how dafaq is there a live grenade that has been thrown in this training camp? It must be a ploy).

Erskine was looking for someone able to see beyond their own self interests to become their super soldier. Someone who wasn't into it for his own glory. Steve resented all of the PR that the army forced him to do and wanted to be more than a propaganda symbol. He wanted to fight for his country when he was so small and sick that a good wind would blow him over, then hurried behind enemy lines on the remote chance that he could save his friend. He took on what was basically a suicide mission to take out the Red Skull. Walker does appear to be at least something of a glory hound. Or at least willing to ride on Steve's coattails. 

I'm also wondering if Walker might have been the subject of some enhancement with the comment about him being studied at MIT. I'm sorry, but the military is filled to the brim with ideal physical specimens. Why Walker would be singled out for special study makes zero sense unless there was a long-term plan for the military to create a new generation of super soldiers. Maybe not as strong as Steve was (and Bucky is) but more amenable to being controlled. 

Which brings us back to Isaiah - I'm absolutely fascinated by his story and his experiences do speak to a very dark element of US military culture. A black soldier might be an appropriate subject for testing because he'd be considered expendable (regardless of how successful the experiment might be). He certainly wouldn't be celebrated and lauded the way Walker did before he'd done anything more than put on the costume. I don't blame him at all for his anger over being imprisoned and Bucky was a convenient target for him to vent his rage at. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

14 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

Erskine was looking for someone able to see beyond their own self interests to become their super soldier. Someone who wasn't into it for his own glory. Steve resented all of the PR that the army forced him to do and wanted to be more than a propaganda symbol. He wanted to fight for his country when he was so small and sick that a good wind would blow him over, then hurried behind enemy lines on the remote chance that he could save his friend. He took on what was basically a suicide mission to take out the Red Skull. Walker does appear to be at least something of a glory hound. Or at least willing to ride on Steve's coattails. 

Maybe my take is a little bit of sympathy for the devil, but as presented thus far, Walker IMO hasn't been too bad. 

I don't see him as a gloryhound at all. We saw him in his private moments before going out into the stadium, and he was nervous about it and had to be given pep talks to do it by both his wife/girlfriend and his buddy/partner.

The big stadium presentation and interview he did was pretty much a 2023 update of the USO tours and the movies that Steve used to make. Steve clearly wanted to be active, but he still kept doing the  war propaganda because that's what his bosses wanted him to do. We might hate him for referring to Bucky and Falcon as Cap's wingmen, but that's not an unfair description IMO of what they were. It's mighty entitled of him to think that they should kiss his ass just because he's wearing a similar costume and has got the shield.

On a spectrum between Steve and Hodge from the first movie for honor, smarts, selflessness, heroism etc., I would say what we have seen from Walker so far would put him closer to the Steve pole. But as things develop, maybe he will be at the Hodge pole or worse, like Rumlow.

[Vanderboom]

10 hours ago, vb68 said:

I love watching Bucky react to stuff, especially when he's annoyed. Sidekick's name being a perfect example. "Stop. The. Car."

I snort-laughed at that one. With all his angst going on, I wasn't expecting Bucky to be the source of so much humor.

8 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Once again, I love the therapist.

I was trying to remember why she looked so familiar to me; She was on Everybody Loves Raymond as a rival parent who antagonized Raymond, so I guess I was predisposed to like her.

6 hours ago, Hana Chan said:

How do you know that you're really enjoying a show? When the end credits start rolling and you're yelling "No!" and hitting the button to pull up the episode list only to have your heart broken when you see that you now have to wait an entire week.

I was tempted to wait until they all or at least half of the episodes came out and then watch, which is what I did with WandaVision, but I couldn't resist.

I'm not willing to write off New!Cap yet. Sure, he has tool tendencies, but I think some of that is linked to his uncertainty about how to be Captain America. He hasn't watched the movies, so he doesn't know the Steve Rogers we do. He knows Captain America gets shit done, but doesn't realize that Rogers' decisions originate in his soul-deep sense of honor.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Vanderboom

[swanpride]

Yeah, Steve did the tour, but remember, that's not when he became Captain America, not really. He became Captain America when he rescued Bucky and all the other soldiers. And after that he refused to do the tour. And Bucky and Falcon might have been technically his wingmen, but Steve would have never used that word this way, and they were always first and foremost his friend, in Bucky's case long before he followed him into battle. This guy doesn't even CARE about getting to know the two, he wants their support, but he doesn't really care about them. Hence he was cancelling Bucky's therapy, because it was convenient for HIM, not one thought about the question if Bucky maybe needs this (and we all know that he does).

That is the thing with Walker, he does on the surface all the right things - having doubts, acting all humble on camera abut his service record and his level of intelligence, but nothing about it comes off as sincere. Just imagine Steve in the same situation. Even if someone convinced him to participate in an event like this, he would have used the opportunity to talk about his great comrades who stood beside him during his heroic deeds. He wouldn't have followed up the observation that other people are way smarter than him with "but I am better than them because I do X". He would have never called himself the best friend of a man he never met. He wouldn't even asked Bucky and Sam to be his anything, he would have most likely apologized to them and had cared about what they feel about that matter (hell, he would have most likely never taken the shield without talking to Sam first).

Hence Walker completely missing the point of jumping on a grenade. Bucky was referring to Steve's readiness for self-sacrifice. But I doubt that this guy has any idea what sacrifice even is. He didn't serve because he cared about people, he served because in his mind, it made him a better person. Steve did it because he didn't want to do anything less than others.