S01.E02: The Star-Spangled Man

[moonorchid]

I am loving “Falcon and The Winter Soldier”. It’s just as emotional and intricate as “WandaVision” but in a different way and I applaud marvel for being different then their usual fare.

What I love so much about the MCU is there is so much equity built in, we don’t need flashbacks or even dialogue to wonder why Bucky and Sam are so devastated about Fake Cap. We’ve seen it for ourselves how much they loved Steve and what they went through for him and Vice versa. It’s all just right there and doesn’t need to be said. 

Bucky is incredibly self aware here. In ep 1 he tells the therapist he never had a chance to just “be”, he was always fighting he never had time to adjust, and in ep 2 he comes right out and tells Sam that if Steve was wrong about Sam then he was wrong about him. 
 

John Walker reminds me of the average middle class white man. I know plenty of them and not in a bad way. They are good guys, work hard, try to do the right thing, would give you the shirt off their back. But when they start facing some push back is when things start to get muddled and that’s exactly what happened here. Walker was introduced in a way that makes viewers who are never gonna go for it think for a second cause we see him being unsure about living up to the mantle of “Captain America”. That would ideally be the first step to actually stepping in but then he just exemplifies a man whose worked hard but has never had to struggle over and over and over. 
 

Steve Rodgers was a good man. At his core, at his heart and soul. He never let the power corrupt him. John Walker will be corrupted by the power that comes with being Captain America. 
 

The point that started the turn for me is when he’s talked to Sam and Bucky in the car. He’s talking to them like he’s actually done something. Sam and Bucky have fought battles he couldn’t even imagine. He lost me right there. 
 

Anthony Mackie, I am so excited for him. He’s already knocking this out of the park. I think he’s a fantastic actor and I’m excited for him to get his shine. I feel like he WILLED this show to happen. Watching him and Sebastian in their interviews, like a buddy cop scenario between the two practically wrote itself, they have amazing chemistry together. 
 

It’s interesting how this was supposed to air first because I think it’s benefitting big time from the popularity and success of WandaVision and also for being so out of the box that viewers appreciate the back to form “marvel” experience. But it’s still intimate. They are really going for it. 
 

I not only don’t mind but I applaud marvel and Disney not shying away from the obvious racial politics going on. I hope they dig in harder. 
 

Isaiah Bradley broke my heart and it broke sams too, and it would have destroyed Steve. I don’t even know what reparations would look like for him. Money is so trite but recognition as the first super human feels weird cause he was tortured for it for decades. I’m looking forward to learning more about him and seeing him again cause he can definitely still kick some ass. 
 

 

Edited March 28, 2021 by moonorchid

[LJones41]

Quote

I hope we get scenes of him with his wife/girlfriend, like in the locker room, where she takes him to task for being an a-hole.

 

Both Sam and Bucky behaved liked a-holes to Walker and Hoskins.  And Bucky, especially, behaved like an a-hole to Sam. Watching him insert himself into Sam’s mission without the latter’s consent really irritated me.  What an arrogant prick!   The only people like, right now, are the Flag-Smashers.

Edited March 28, 2021 by LJones41

[paigow]

The U.S. Army segregated Black soldiers until 1948. So the scenes of the 107th being an integrated unit in First Avenger is a retcon. Even Black nurses could not be hired beyond a quota.

Edited March 28, 2021 by paigow

[calliope1975]

2 hours ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

HA!
Love it!

Wish I could take credit for it, but someone else here came up with it when JW was first introduced. (Sorry I can't remember who!) It seems like the perfect descriptor.

[elle]

On 3/26/2021 at 8:00 PM, festivus said:

I feel my teeth clenching every time John Walker calls Bucky "Bucky". Like who are you, you don't get to call him that with that tone like you know him! It just irritates me.

It bothered me that Bucky did not correct Walker when Walker called him “Bucky” with a well placed “you don’t get to call me that!”  Didn’t he scold Sam earlier for calling him “Buck” or is that somehow more personal to him?

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, paigow said:

The U.S. Army segregated Black soldiers until 1948. So the scenes of the 107th being an integrated unit in First Avenger is a retcon. Even Black nurses could not be hired beyond a quota.

1. Pretty sure that the real military had some desegregated units before 1948,, when Truman signed the executive order banning desegregation.

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/20587/20587-h/20587-h.htm#page017

Departmental policy notwithstanding, a certain amount of racial integration was inevitable during a war that mobilized a biracial army of eight million men. Through administrative error or necessity, segregation was ignored on many occasions, and black and white soldiers often worked and lived together in hospitals,[2-83] rest camps, schools, and, more rarely, units. But these were isolated cases, touching relatively few men, and they had no discernible effect on racial policy. Of much more importance was the deliberate integration in officer training schools and in the divisions fighting in the European theater in 1945. McCloy referred to these deviations from policy as experiments "too limited to afford general conclusions."[2-84] But if they set no precedents, they at least challenged the Army's cherished assumptions on segregation and strengthened the postwar demands for change.

2. Obviously the MCU military need not have followed the exact pattern of the real world.

46 minutes ago, elle said:

It bothered me that Bucky did not correct Walker when Walker called him “Bucky” with a well placed “you don’t get to call me that!”  Didn’t he scold Sam earlier for calling him “Buck” or is that somehow more personal to him?

"Buck" is what he said Sam didn't get to call him; only Steve got to call him that. Bucky doesn't have a problem being called "Bucky" apparently.

[Check Sanity]

13 hours ago, lawrbk said:

I felt the scene with the cops was a little forced. I know it happens but it just felt wedged in to me. Usually the ‘stop for id for no reason’ comes when blacks are someplace ‘they don’t belong’ ie white neighborhoods. Unless they think Sam was harassing Bucky the white dude. But it rang hollow to me. 

You know it happens but...? Certain "problem areas" (aka poorer and larger minority populated areas) have a bigger police presence, which is how these small interactions happen more frequently. You can see the cop car parked and they only turn and come up the street as the two are talking and walking in the middle of/crossing the street a little too long. Even that is enough of a reason for some cops. But as someone else pointed out, Bucky says a few times Sam isn't bothering him and them assuming he was harassing Bucky is precisely why they got out of the car.

12 hours ago, LJones41 said:

So … what went wrong for me?  One, how on earth was Bucky allowed to join Sam’s mission in Germany without anyone bothering to stop or reject him?  I found the idea of Bucky forcing himself into Sam’s mission without the latter’s permission made him look like a privileged jackass.  I also found his behavior annoying and implausible.

Following the failure of the Munich, Germany mission, Sam and Bucky refused to work with the new Captain America and Battlestar, with Sam declaring them both as “free agents”.  Why did Sam call himself a “free agent”, when his job as a contractor for the U.S. Air Force was established int he previous episode, (1.01) “New World Order”?  And why did Sam fail to report to the Air Force, following the failure of his mission?

I realized many had automatically expressed hostility at Walker and Hoskins as the new Captain America and Battlestar.  I … did not.  Both Sam and Bucky had behaved like jerks when Walker tried to recruit the pair for his team.  Sam and Bucky’s negative behavior led both Walker and Hoskins to respond with jerkish behavior of their own.  Walker also managed to force Sam and Bucky to attend a session with the latter’s Dr. Christina Raynor; yet he could not force them to join his team in their search for the Flag-Smashers?  What was that about?  I found this contradictory.  And what was the point of that session with Dr. Raynor in the first place?  So that Sam and Bucky could finally establish their issues with each other?  That scenario could have been accomplished without that ridiculous therapy session and those even more ridiculous jokes.  

The episode ended with Bucky suggesting that he and Sam seek out an interview with the imprisoned Helmut Zemo from “CAPTAIN AMERICA: CIVIL WAR” in order to seek information on the Flag-Smashers.  After the events in Germany and Bucky’s arrest in Baltimore, I am curious to see how they will be to accomplish an interview with Zemo

4 hours ago, LJones41 said:

Both Sam and Bucky behaved liked a-holes to Walker and Hoskins.  And Bucky, especially, behaved like an a-hole to Sam. Watching him insert himself into Sam’s mission without the latter’s consent really irritated me.  What an arrogant prick!   The only people like, right now, are the Flag-Smashers.

Bucky didn't really force himself onto the mission. Sam willingly shared what he was about to do. Why wouldn't he want back up from someone who's dealt with "the big three" before? Sam seemed to rather enjoy having someone to jab at several times. They respect each other, they bicker more than actually argue. They have a shorthand with each other, similar but different to what Sam has with his sister.

They are "free agents" in that they don't answer to any specific organization. Sam has his contracts, and Bucky has his helpful "tips and such" from crossing undeserving people he gave power to off his list. 

Sam and Bucky "behaved like jerks" or behaved like people who were grieving a loss? Walker and Hoskins tracked Falcon via Redwing, which was jerky before they even met the other two. Walker relegated Bucky and Sam to being Steve's wingmen and wanted them as his (primarily to legitimize himself). Walker was disrespectful in terms of experience and priorities. Sam listened to Walker despite the Redwing thing, up until Walker disrespected him a second time.

The point of the session was to get Bucky to open up more with what's been bothering him. Also, as the therapist pointed out in the previous session, Bucky needs to not be alone. She saw an opportunity, likely saw they would be working together (based on the pieces of Cosplay Cap pulling strings and telling both Bucky and Sam he's be waiting outside), and did what she could to facilitate communication between the two. She also has a job regarding Bucky's mental health for him and keeping track of it for the gov. 

Bucky fought with the Avengers in Endgame and was pardoned by the president. Also, people already knew a bit about his history and friendship with Steve Rogers and saw how far Steve went to stick up for Bucky. I don't think it's a stretch to think that as far as the public knows, he may not have that negative of a reputation. Also, with The Falcon being an Avenger, it's likely easier to achieve. However, just because they said they were going to do something, doesn't mean it's going to come easy to them next episode.
 

12 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

No, Isaiah was jailed and immediately came to HYDRA's attention. HYDRA was SHIELD. There's zero chance SHIELD was not involved in the super soldier program.

I think some of the other responses to this may have some credence. Either way, thinking that Fury probably knows about this is a bit of a bummer. Though *when* he found out, hopefully, was long after the fact.

12 hours ago, bethy said:

Overall, I like the episode. But there were missing beats and weird connections that made it seem to me like they had a bunch of scenes they wanted to include, but weren't all that concerned about how they held together or even logically flowed. While I enjoyed the therapy scene because of the Sam and Bucky interaction, how they got there didn't make much sense to me. Given  the last thing we'd heard about Sam from the therapist - that Bucky had been ignoring his texts - why would she suddenly include Sam in Bucky's therapy session and treat them like friends or partners who needed couples therapy?  

See above about the therapist seeing an opportunity and making a quick read of the situation.
 

8 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

Yeah I actually really like that they are addressing that. The MCU has tried to be apolitical but I guess since this isn't relying on box office receipts from most of the planet they can afford to be a little controversial and tell a more specifically American story.

It is bugging me a little that Bucky is shown as being completely clueless about American race relations. He fought with a black man for most of WW2 and he grew up Irish in Brooklyn in the 20s and 30s he would have at least witnessed some of what Sam has dealt with. Not that I'm comparing the old "No dogs or Irish" style discrimination to what Sam has lived through they are completely different experiences but Bucky probably should understand a bit better than the show has given him credit for at this point. Bucky isn't Walker the embodiment of white privilege it would be a nice shade of gray to add to this story. Not too mention something that helps underline how far the world has come. Bucky is not some alien who got dropped on Earth it shouldn't be a mystery to him why Sam feels like less than. 

Someone mentioned it early in the thread, but Bucky's main thing is Steve's wishes and Steve's legacy. It's because of that Bucky has a bit of tunnel vision. It may look like he's not recognizing race relations, but he is responding from a very raw emotional place which is rarely rational. 

I find it amusing that Bucky allows Sam to call him Buck earlier in the hangar, but doesn't when he's annoyed with Sam on the plane. It's like he's revoked Sam's use of it as punishment. Such a little petulant sibling-like thing to do. The fact that Bucky still has these childish moments despite what he's been through is a nice relief. I hope we get to see Isaiah get to experience a moment like that, his scene and story was heartbreakingly heavy. 

Edited March 28, 2021 by Check Sanity
Typo and added comment.

[swanpride]

Bucky hasn't really been part of society for decades. He certainly knew how race relations looked back in the 1940s (though him growing up in New York most likely meant that he didn't witness the worst of it), but it is kind of hard to believe that they didn't really change in all this time. Plus, I am not sure if he was really unaware...it is just as likely that he is aware and therefore wanted Sam to no argue and just show his ID before the Cop draws his weapon. It's more that Bucky most likely has a hard time to see it from Sam's perspective.

Regarding his reputation, remember, for decades Bucky was venerated as "Captain America's best friend who died for the cause". The fact that he was actually a PoW and tortured for all this time will just add another tragic note in the mind of a lot of people, so I don't think that his reputation is THAT bad overall. It just depends if people see him as Bucky Barnes or as the Winter Soldier.

And Isiah...we actually don't know when he ended up in prison or how old he was when he did. Scenario number one: He ended up directly in the early 1950s, which meant that he got out in the early 1980s. More than 40 years (remember, it is 2023 in the reality) is plenty time to have a son and that son having a teenage son of his own. Scenario number two: He didn't end up in prison immediately and had a son beforehand, and his "grandson" is actually his great grandson.

[Morrigan2575]

On 3/26/2021 at 3:53 AM, paigow said:

Walker is not a dancing monkey...but is a douchebag

Seriously. I actually found myself liking him in his first scene, he came across very Steve like. I half wondered if he was Steve's grandson or something.  Then every subsequent scene had him moving further and further into DBag territory.

[Kel Varnsen]

7 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Seriously. I actually found myself liking him in his first scene, he came across very Steve like. I half wondered if he was Steve's grandson or something.  Then every subsequent scene had him moving further and further into DBag territory.

Speaking of being related to Steve I thought it was interesting that he was closer to comic book Steve's power levels. In the comics Captain America didn't have super human powers but the serum only gave him peak human level powers.

[Capricasix]

On 3/26/2021 at 3:23 PM, FnkyChkn34 said:

Amy Aquino, the actress who plays Dr. Raynor, is recognizable from a bunch of things - Bosch, ER, and Picket Fences, just to name a few.

Oh ffs, that’s where I recognize her from! A local independent station just started rerunning ER from the beginning, and “Love’s Labor Lost” was on a couple of weeks ago. Of course, she played the obstetrician in that episode. I knew I’d seen her in something recently.

[Brn2bwild]

25 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Seriously. I actually found myself liking him in his first scene, he came across very Steve like. I half wondered if he was Steve's grandson or something.  Then every subsequent scene had him moving further and further into DBag territory.

I read his subsequent scenes as his efforts to mask his (still considerable) insecurities about being Captain America, and his fear that Cap's old friends' attitude means he really is a fraud.  My guess is that he will at times be antagonistic with Sam and Bucky, but ultimately realize that Sam is Captain America and give over the shield voluntarily.

[arc]

5 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

My guess is that he will at times be antagonistic with Sam and Bucky, but ultimately realize that Sam is Captain America and give over the shield voluntarily.

The shield isn't his to give. It's government property. Even if it's not the original shield, once Sam gave whatever shield he had to the Smithsonian that one became government property too.

[RollTheHardSix]

I'm not fully sure about the show, yet. I desperately want to like it and I kinda do, but this is helped by my MCU bias to some extent. 

Something about these episodes does not click for me, but it's hard to describe. Maybe it's that many scenes feel rushed ... The scenes are cool and some storylines feel promising, but that final link always seems to be missing which would help them really mesh?

Something about it feels like someone simply cut together a bunch of scenes which have a disjointed feel to me.

Not all of it seems logical to me, it feels like there is missing background info and explanations. 

Also: The flag smashers seem very meh to me, I'm just not that interested in them yet. 

Some fight scenes and banter seems drawn out and played for effects and for "cool" and at the same time does not feel satisfying. 

 

I am quite surprised.

I really LOVED Wandavision from the first episode to the last which totally surprised me positively - I was not expecting anything and I hate sitcoms. I wouldn't say this is the opposite, but there is some disappointment...

 

Edited March 29, 2021 by RollTheHardSix

[Danny Franks]

On 3/28/2021 at 7:17 AM, Check Sanity said:

You know it happens but...? Certain "problem areas" (aka poorer and larger minority populated areas) have a bigger police presence, which is how these small interactions happen more frequently. You can see the cop car parked and they only turn and come up the street as the two are talking and walking in the middle of/crossing the street a little too long. Even that is enough of a reason for some cops. But as someone else pointed out, Bucky says a few times Sam isn't bothering him and them assuming he was harassing Bucky is precisely why they got out of the car.

Bucky didn't really force himself onto the mission. Sam willingly shared what he was about to do. Why wouldn't he want back up from someone who's dealt with "the big three" before? Sam seemed to rather enjoy having someone to jab at several times. They respect each other, they bicker more than actually argue. They have a shorthand with each other, similar but different to what Sam has with his sister.

They are "free agents" in that they don't answer to any specific organization. Sam has his contracts, and Bucky has his helpful "tips and such" from crossing undeserving people he gave power to off his list. 

Sam and Bucky "behaved like jerks" or behaved like people who were grieving a loss? Walker and Hoskins tracked Falcon via Redwing, which was jerky before they even met the other two. Walker relegated Bucky and Sam to being Steve's wingmen and wanted them as his (primarily to legitimize himself). Walker was disrespectful in terms of experience and priorities. Sam listened to Walker despite the Redwing thing, up until Walker disrespected him a second time.

The point of the session was to get Bucky to open up more with what's been bothering him. Also, as the therapist pointed out in the previous session, Bucky needs to not be alone. She saw an opportunity, likely saw they would be working together (based on the pieces of Cosplay Cap pulling strings and telling both Bucky and Sam he's be waiting outside), and did what she could to facilitate communication between the two. She also has a job regarding Bucky's mental health for him and keeping track of it for the gov. 

Bucky fought with the Avengers in Endgame and was pardoned by the president. Also, people already knew a bit about his history and friendship with Steve Rogers and saw how far Steve went to stick up for Bucky. I don't think it's a stretch to think that as far as the public knows, he may not have that negative of a reputation. Also, with The Falcon being an Avenger, it's likely easier to achieve. However, just because they said they were going to do something, doesn't mean it's going to come easy to them next episode.
 

I think some of the other responses to this may have some credence. Either way, thinking that Fury probably knows about this is a bit of a bummer. Though *when* he found out, hopefully, was long after the fact.

See above about the therapist seeing an opportunity and making a quick read of the situation.
 

Someone mentioned it early in the thread, but Bucky's main thing is Steve's wishes and Steve's legacy. It's because of that Bucky has a bit of tunnel vision. It may look like he's not recognizing race relations, but he is responding from a very raw emotional place which is rarely rational. 

I find it amusing that Bucky allows Sam to call him Buck earlier in the hangar, but doesn't when he's annoyed with Sam on the plane. It's like he's revoked Sam's use of it as punishment. Such a little petulant sibling-like thing to do. The fact that Bucky still has these childish moments despite what he's been through is a nice relief. I hope we get to see Isaiah get to experience a moment like that, his scene and story was heartbreakingly heavy. 

Tunnel vision is right. Bucky doesn't care what the legacy of Captain America is, how big and unwieldy it might be to Sam. All he knows is, Steve gave Sam the shield and that means he should carry the damned thing! It's what Steve wanted. And Bucky seems to have no doubts that Sam can do it, because Steve apparently believed Sam could do it.

Now, if Steve had given Bucky the shield, I think we'd be seeing the same reluctance to take up the mantle. It's much easier telling the other guy to sack up and do what the man they both consider to be one of the greatest ever human beings wanted. Bucky would absolutely feel he's not worthy, and to a much greater degree than Sam does, if it was him expected to carry Cap's legacy. 

On 3/28/2021 at 7:50 AM, swanpride said:

Bucky hasn't really been part of society for decades. He certainly knew how race relations looked back in the 1940s (though him growing up in New York most likely meant that he didn't witness the worst of it), but it is kind of hard to believe that they didn't really change in all this time. Plus, I am not sure if he was really unaware...it is just as likely that he is aware and therefore wanted Sam to no argue and just show his ID before the Cop draws his weapon. It's more that Bucky most likely has a hard time to see it from Sam's perspective.

Bucky comes from a time when neighbourhoods were even more segregated than they are now, and Brooklyn was overwhelmingly white in the 1940s - mostly made up of Italian, Irish, Jewish and German communities. His ignorance on the black experience would be the default setting of a young man growing up in that time and place. He'd know what was said about black people, and about Asian people, and Hispanic people, as well as about Italians, Irish, Jews, etc, but he likely didn't know many people who weren't white Americans or first generation white immigrants. Marvel tends to skim over this stuff because it can get very complicated, very quickly, but the future shock that Steve and Bucky will have experienced would make anyone's head spin. Steve himself would have known next to nothing about what it's like to be a black person in America, but both he and Bucky are fundamentally good people, who don't seem to have any prejudice at all, despite coming from a time when casual prejudice was the default (again, something else Marvel conveniently tucks away and I can't really blame them for it).

Obviously, Gabe Jones was one of their comrades in the Second World War, but the US army was still segregated so they probably didn't get to know many other black soldiers. But fighting alongside him, and Jim Morita, probably gave them a good foundation in not assuming people with different ethnicities are lesser. Bucky may have gleaned some bits and pieces in the times he was awake and deployed by the Soviet Union. And, like Steve, I'm sure he's learned a lot since regaining his memories, but he was more concerned with his own fragile mental state than in making lists of things, like Steve did.

He picked up on the fact that the cops were being dicks, but whether he recognised it as racially motivated or just the sort of thing he and Steve might have experienced from a stereotypical 1930s cop, throwing his weight around and using his authority to bully, is unclear.

[Ailianna]

On 3/28/2021 at 2:17 AM, Check Sanity said:

I think some of the other responses to this may have some credence. Either way, thinking that Fury probably knows about this is a bit of a bummer. Though *when* he found out, hopefully, was long after the fact.

Or, in my head canon, when Fury found out is when Isaiah was released. Not much Fury could do but let him be, but I like to think he tried to give Isaiah what peace he could.

[kirinan]

12 hours ago, Capricasix said:

Oh ffs, that’s where I recognize her from! A local independent station just started rerunning ER from the beginning, and “Love’s Labor Lost” was on a couple of weeks ago. Of course, she played the obstetrician in that episode. I knew I’d seen her in something recently.

 

12 hours ago, Capricasix said:

Oh ffs, that’s where I recognize her from! A local independent station just started rerunning ER from the beginning, and “Love’s Labor Lost” was on a couple of weeks ago. Of course, she played the obstetrician in that episode. I knew I’d seen her in something recently.

I don't know that this is available anywhere now, but she was also in a lovely little two-season TV show called Brooklyn Bridge in the early 1990s. She played the mom of a Jewish family in 1950s Brooklyn, and she was wonderful in it. That was the first thing I ever saw her in, and I've liked her in everything I've seen her in since.

[FnkyChkn34]

12 hours ago, Capricasix said:

Oh ffs, that’s where I recognize her from! A local independent station just started rerunning ER from the beginning, and “Love’s Labor Lost” was on a couple of weeks ago. Of course, she played the obstetrician in that episode. I knew I’d seen her in something recently.

I recognized her from Bosch, but didn't realize that I recognized her from Bosch until I looked her upon IMDb.  Then I realized I recognized her from a bunch of stuff!

[paigow]

Flag Smashers are a lot like Red Skull...they must have been given a HYDRA serum variant...

Red Skull: I have seen the future Captain. There are no flags.

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, Ailianna said:

Or, in my head canon, when Fury found out is when Isaiah was released. Not much Fury could do but let him be, but I like to think he tried to give Isaiah what peace he could.

Isiah would have been released before Fury was in a position to find out about him.  He was still in the rank and file back in the 90s in Captain Marvel.  

[lawrbk]

On 3/28/2021 at 2:17 AM, Check Sanity said:

You know it happens but...? Certain "problem areas" (aka poorer and larger minority populated areas) have a bigger police presence, which is how these small interactions happen more frequently. You can see the cop car parked and they only turn and come up the street as the two are talking and walking in the middle of/crossing the street a little too long. Even that is enough of a reason for some cops. But as someone else pointed out, Bucky says a few times Sam isn't bothering him and them assuming he was harassing Bucky is precisely why they got out of the car.

Sam and Bucky "behaved like jerks" or behaved like people who were grieving a loss? Walker and Hoskins tracked Falcon via Redwing, which was jerky before they even met the other two. Walker relegated Bucky and Sam to being Steve's wingmen and wanted them as his (primarily to legitimize himself). Walker was disrespectful in terms of experience and priorities. Sam listened to Walker despite the Redwing thing, up until Walker disrespected him 

I find it amusing that Bucky allows Sam to call him Buck earlier in the hangar, but doesn't when he's annoyed with Sam on the plane. It's like he's revoked Sam's use of it as punishment. Such a little petulant sibling-like thing to do. The fact that Bucky still has these childish moments despite what he's been through is a nice relief. I hope we get to see Isaiah get to experience a moment like that, his scene and story was heartbreakingly heavy. 

Yes I am aware these things happen. And way too much. That’s what I said. But I didn’t want to write a lengthy paragraph to get to the main point. I felt it seemed forced and didn’t flow organically. It seemed the police had to come, narratively, to arrest Bucky to lead to everything else and so let’s add another aspect to show how sam is disrespected despite being an Avenger. Which we got in the bank. And that it took focus away from Isaiah’s story that they were arguing about on the street. Because his story is a LOT more and who knows if they’ll get back to him though I think, and hope, they will. Especially because Carl Lumbly hit it out of the park. But there’s a finite amount of time. And the street scene it still felt forced and too long. Sorry. Maybe if they’d rolled up and said to Bucky ‘is this guy bothering you?’ and started but then got the info to pick Bucky up. But it’s jMO on the scene not real world events. 

[lawrbk]

3 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Tunnel vision is right. Bucky doesn't care what the legacy of Captain America is, how big and unwieldy it might be to Sam. All he knows is, Steve gave Sam the shield and that means he should carry the damned thing! It's what Steve wanted. And Bucky seems to have no doubts that Sam can do it, because Steve apparently believed Sam could do it.

Now, if Steve had given Bucky the shield, I think we'd be seeing the same reluctance to take up the mantle. It's much easier telling the other guy to sack up and do what the man they both consider to be one of the greatest ever human beings wanted. Bucky would absolutely feel he's not worthy, and to a much greater degree than Sam does, if it was him expected to carry Cap's legacy. 

Bucky comes from a time when neighbourhoods were even more segregated than they are now, and Brooklyn was overwhelmingly white in the 1940s - mostly made up of Italian, Irish, Jewish and German communities. His ignorance on the black experience would be the default setting of a young man growing up in that time and place. He'd know what was said about black people, and about Asian people, and Hispanic people, as well as about Italians, Irish, Jews, etc, but he likely didn't know many people who weren't white Americans or first generation white immigrants. Marvel tends to skim over this stuff because it can get very complicated, very quickly, but the future shock that Steve and Bucky will have experienced would make anyone's head spin. Steve himself would have known next to nothing about what it's like to be a black person in America, but both he and Bucky are fundamentally good people, who don't seem to have any prejudice at all, despite coming from a time when casual prejudice was the default (again, something else Marvel conveniently tucks away and I can't really blame them for it).

Obviously, Gabe Jones was one of their comrades in the Second World War, but the US army was still segregated so they probably didn't get to know many other black soldiers. But fighting alongside him, and Jim Morita, probably gave them a good foundation in not assuming people with different ethnicities are lesser. Bucky may have gleaned some bits and pieces in the times he was awake and deployed by the Soviet Union. And, like Steve, I'm sure he's learned a lot since regaining his memories, but he was more concerned with his own fragile mental state than in making lists of things, like Steve did.

He picked up on the fact that the cops were being dicks, but whether he recognised it as racially motivated or just the sort of thing he and Steve might have experienced from a stereotypical 1930s cop, throwing his weight around and using his authority to bully, is unclear.

There’s a great tumblr called Steve Rogers Is Historically Accurate. It does deep dives into what his early life would’ve been like. Based on snippets of info, they’ve gleaned where he and Bucky probably lived. And it was one of the most diverse, and gayest (which probably made stucky lovers happy lol) in NYC. It’s too much to go into but the site is really cool and can be used for Bucky as well as Steve. 

[lawrbk]

On 3/27/2021 at 1:34 PM, LJones41 said:

 

 

Sam was never Steve's NCO.  They were never in the military together.  And unlike Bucky, Sam was an officer.  Sam was a former veteran whom Steve had turned to for help, when he and Natasha were being pursued by HYDRA.  They eventually became friends.  The only time Sam "officially" served under Steve was during the period both were part of the Avengers between "Ultron" and "Civil War".

 

 

Yes, I know. WS is my favorite MCU movie. But sam’s MCU rank is never given. Most USAF pararescuemen are sergeants, however. But for an nco, I referred to Walker and Battlestar. And that someone like Bucky or Sam or Rhodey could appreciate a military hierarchy and be offended that someone relegates an important thing like that to ‘sidekick’ or ‘wingman’ in the non military sense. They were part of a unit, the avengers, which functioned a lot like a military squadron. There was a leader, a senior nco, etc. 

[johntfs]

I liked the little call back we got to Wakanda with the White Wolf reference.  I think it's a little funny that people always talk about the Shield but nobody really considers the Arm.  I mean figure the Shield going to Howard Stark could easily have been:

Wakandan1: So what did you give to that colonizer to get him to go away?

Wakandan2: That old disc of Uncle M'Bakran's that he used to play "fetch" with the War Rhinos.

 

[swanpride]

Quote

There’s a great tumblr called Steve Rogers Is Historically Accurate. It does deep dives into what his early life would’ve been like. Based on snippets of info, they’ve gleaned where he and Bucky probably lived. And it was one of the most diverse, and gayest (which probably made stucky lovers happy lol) in NYC. It’s too much to go into but the site is really cool and can be used for Bucky as well as Steve. 

That's what I mean about Bucky not really seeing the worst of it back in the day. It made a HUGE difference if you were a black person in the South (say, California), or in New York. In addition, it is pretty likely that either Steve or Bucky or both are of Irish Ancestry, which came back then with its own set of troubles. So from Bucky's perspective, he most likely witnessed a lot of prejudice against all kind of people (including Asians in General - remember the "Do we take everyone" remark in The First Avengers), and doesn't necessarily understand how bad it got especially for black people over the years. Like, he certainly realises that there is racism, but I am not sure if he has enough information to realise the full extend of the black experience in the US. For his frame of understanding, he most likely sees little Steve fighting again and again, no matter how much bigger his opponent was, and not understanding why Sam doesn't do the same after Steve himself basically picked him for the job.

There are btw a few really nice fanfics discussing those topics, too...sadly I lost a link, but I remember one in which the Avengers think that Steve is a racist because he keeps using the word "negro" and is all excited about going to cinema with "his black friend" and then, when they want to talk to him about his "backwards attitude" it turns out that he actually uses the word because he read in some sort of "radical" pro black rights publication that this is the political correct word to use and that he is genuinely excited about being able to go to the cinema with Sam without anyone being bothered about it.

[Danny Franks]

The Winter Kills one shot comic had Kate Bishop call Bucky out for using the word "pansies" to describe Hydra goons. She obviously took issue with the homophobic connotations. Bucky didn't mean it that way - he just meant the Hydra goons were wimps - but it was an all-too-rare example of a man out of time using a word that is no longer considered acceptable.

In reality, this would happen all the time. Language use changes really quickly, and with people being increasingly aware of problematic words, microaggressions and such, that change is accelerating.

I wouldn't expect Steve or Bucky to understand, or even necessarily to share, the views of a lot of people in the twenty first century. At least, not at first. It is a form of sanitisation that Marvel do because, as I say, it's just too complicated to delve into, and it runs into the question of 'should we judge people of the past by modern standards?' Well... when they've been cryogenically frozen then thawed in the present day, I'd say we should. At least after giving them a chance to acclimatise themselves.

 

[blackwing]

Really liked this episode.  I like the camaraderie and banter between Sam and Bucky.  The scene with Barnes' therapist was hilarious.

John Walker is an ass, but based on the comics, I expected it.  I'm wondering how much time has elapsed since Sam gave the shield to the Smithsonian?  Was this the only shield?  Or somewhere are there spare copies of the shield?  Because if Sam turned over the shield like yesterday, even allowing for a few days in between then and when they announced Captain Carl from Up, how is it that he already became so skilled at using the shield?  He threw and caught that thing on the train like a pro.  He's supposedly one of the country's most elite soldiers, three Medals of Freedom, blah blah, but he has no super powers.  It would take time to understand the angles and physics of throwing the shield so it returns, but he's as expert as Steve with it, seemingly overnight.

On 3/26/2021 at 7:24 AM, Hana Chan said:

The moment with the kids calling Sam "Black Falcon" and Sam correcting him really shows how complicated these questions about race and identity are. On one hand, representation is so critical but at the same time, it can't be the be all, end all of identity. I'm hoping that the show will continue to handle these issues with the same sensitivity. 

I took that to be a subtle dig at comics... Black Panther I think was one of the first black Avengers and although the name references the animal, the intent seems obvious.  There's also Black Goliath (Bill Foster), I guess to distinguish him from the white Goliath Hank Pym.  Black Lightning and Black Manta from DC.

[swanpride]

I disagree that Marvel is sanitating in this specific case. It all boils down to what Steve (and by extension Bucky) was meant to be: A symbol for what America SHOULD be. And the America which should be is one where everyone is born equal, so naturally Steve sees it that way and picks out his team accordingly. It is necessary so that Marvel can contrast the ideal with what America sadly is in reality.  

[Guest]

2 hours ago, lawrbk said:

Maybe if they’d rolled up and said to Bucky ‘is this guy bothering you?’ and started but then got the info to pick Bucky up. But it’s jMO on the scene not real world events. 

They didn’t say “is this guy bothering you” immediately but, for me, the scene played out exactly that way narratively. They saw a black man and a white man in a heated conversation pulled up and immediately focused on Sam. 

2 hours ago, lawrbk said:

I felt it seemed forced and didn’t flow organically. It seemed the police had to come, narratively, to arrest Bucky to lead to everything else and so let’s add another aspect to show how sam is disrespected despite being an Avenger. Which we got in the bank.

The show is fundamentally about race and what it is like to be black in the world today. That’s not something you show with one scene. Does racism ever flow organically in real life? There nothing organic about looking at a person and immediately being suspicious because of their skin color. It is forced and deliberate. 

[Abra]

19 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I'm wondering how much time has elapsed since Sam gave the shield to the Smithsonian?  Was this the only shield?  Or somewhere are there spare copies of the shield?  Because if Sam turned over the shield like yesterday, even allowing for a few days in between then and when they announced Captain Carl from Up, how is it that he already became so skilled at using the shield?  He threw and caught that thing on the train like a pro.  He's supposedly one of the country's most elite soldiers, three Medals of Freedom, blah blah, but he has no super powers.  It would take time to understand the angles and physics of throwing the shield so it returns, but he's as expert as Steve with it, seemingly overnight.

I noticed on second viewing that Torres still had bruising around his eye from his encounter with the Flag Smashers, and John only showed a bit of beard growth as the episode went on, so I don't think much time passed. It would not surprise me if the government had provided the closest facsimile of Steve's shield as they could for him to practice with until they got their grubby betraying paws on the real shield.

[Chicago Redshirt]

2 hours ago, swanpride said:

That's what I mean about Bucky not really seeing the worst of it back in the day. It made a HUGE difference if you were a black person in the South (say, California), or in New York.

Not to nitpick too much, especially as I brain froze and wrote Slovakia when I should have said Sokovia earlier in the thread, but California is not generally considered the South.

32 minutes ago, swanpride said:

I disagree that Marvel is sanitating in this specific case. It all boils down to what Steve (and by extension Bucky) was meant to be: A symbol for what America SHOULD be. And the America which should be is one where everyone is born equal, so naturally Steve sees it that way and picks out his team accordingly. It is necessary so that Marvel can contrast the ideal with what America sadly is in reality.  

I would say again that Marvel has glossed over a lot, from downplaying that Red Skull was a Nazi (and indeed making it so that he envisioned a new world order that would blow up Berlin) to that even the most advanced white person from the 1940s would probably not fall into the category of "woke" by today's standards.

[swanpride]

Yeah, I guess I mentioned California because of Agent Carter. It was my explanation why she didn't get it either initially after moving from New York to California. Lack of experience.

Marvel is pretty clear about Red Skull being a Nazi. Who, btw, DID plan to blow up all kind of infrastructure when they were on retreat, including destroying German cities, it just never happened because THAT was the point where a lot of officers refused to obey (either because they didn't like the Nazis anyway or because they realised that they had lost anyway). I think the reason why they make him more an off-shot and the Nazis is more that 1. its less historical hassle and less worrying about being disrespectful to actual historical persons and more importantly 2. it makes Hydra more universal. See, Hollywood is quite comfortable with using Nazis as villains because "ze Germans" are fair game when it comes to portraying them as evil. It is way less comfortable with pointing out that Nazi ideology and politics which is based on ideas the Nazis had is something which you can still find all over the world, including in the US. Hence I am pretty happy with Hydra working as an universal stand-in for that ideology. (and as Agents of Shield keeps saying: Don't forget they are Nazis).

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, swanpride said:

Yeah, I guess I mentioned California because of Agent Carter. It was my explanation why she didn't get it either initially after moving from New York to California. Lack of experience.

Marvel is pretty clear about Red Skull being a Nazi. Who, btw, DID plan to blow up all kind of infrastructure when they were on retreat, including destroying German cities, it just never happened because THAT was the point where a lot of officers refused to obey (either because they didn't like the Nazis anyway or because they realised that they had lost anyway). I think the reason why they make him more an off-shot and the Nazis is more that 1. its less historical hassle and less worrying about being disrespectful to actual historical persons and more importantly 2. it makes Hydra more universal. See, Hollywood is quite comfortable with using Nazis as villains because "ze Germans" are fair game when it comes to portraying them as evil. It is way less comfortable with pointing out that Nazi ideology and politics which is based on ideas the Nazis had is something which you can still find all over the world, including in the US. Hence I am pretty happy with Hydra working as an universal stand-in for that ideology. (and as Agents of Shield keeps saying: Don't forget they are Nazis).

Marvel is clear about him having started as a Nazi in the movies but glosses over him being a true believer in whites as the master race, Jews and the other races being inferior, etc. etc. as well as the ramifications of that. I think we are saying the same thing, but just in different ways.

[swanpride]

For that we have movies like Schindler's list. I think it is more important to understand that what happened in Germany can happen EVERYWHERE. A point which The First Avenger beautifully made with "the first country the Nazis conquered was their own", and which is still made in the Captain America Franchise to this day by constantly denying exactly the same ideas which lead down to the slippery slope of fascism. That's Marvel's angle. And it is a good one.

Along with some propaganda critique. I think that's part of the reason why the football field scene feels so much more wrong than Steve's tour. Because Steve's tour WAS propaganda, but it was propaganda for a war against the Nazis (Hydra). But the football field propaganda doesn't have this excuse. What exactly is Walker standing up against?

 

 

[Chicago Redshirt]

4 minutes ago, swanpride said:

Along with some propaganda critique. I think that's part of the reason why the football field scene feels so much more wrong than Steve's tour. Because Steve's tour WAS propaganda, but it was propaganda for a war against the Nazis (Hydra). But the football field propaganda doesn't have this excuse. What exactly is Walker standing up against?

America in the MCU still has plenty of enemies. There are terrorist organizations, including, but not limited to the Ten Rings, AIM, Hydra and/or Hydra off-shoots. We've been introduced to the Flag Smashers who clearly pose some level of threat to American interests. Walker acknowledges Sam's Big Three and so might have to face off against, aliens, android or wizards. Remember their America has experienced massive threats from Loki, Ultron and Thanos in the last 10ish years, and there's no sign of that stopping, Steve was a crucial part of beating back each of those threats.

And MCU America presumably has some variants of the normal threats that real America has from other countries. 

[Ohiopirate02]

9 minutes ago, swanpride said:

Along with some propaganda critique. I think that's part of the reason why the football field scene feels so much more wrong than Steve's tour. Because Steve's tour WAS propaganda, but it was propaganda for a war against the Nazis (Hydra). But the football field propaganda doesn't have this excuse. What exactly is Walker standing up against?

 

Both of these tours was to get people to buy something.  For Steve it was war bonds to help the US defeat the Nazis.  Walker is on Good Morning America (nice one there Disney) to sell something.  What that something is is another question, and may be a driving factor in this series.  

[Dandesun]

12 minutes ago, swanpride said:

Along with some propaganda critique. I think that's part of the reason why the football field scene feels so much more wrong than Steve's tour. Because Steve's tour WAS propaganda, but it was propaganda for a war against the Nazis (Hydra). But the football field propaganda doesn't have this excuse. What exactly is Walker standing up against?

 

 

I don't think he's necessarily there to stand against anything. The whole speech introducing him in Ep 1 was specifically talking about him being a hero FOR AMERICA. We have this idea laid out that after the Snap, everyone came together as one or something... okay, fine. Let's say that happened although based on numbers the population just went back to what it was in the 1970s and there was plenty of borders and tribalism going on back them.

But let's say that, yes, it was no longer about borders and flags but about one people, one planet and everyone coming back meant that people started dividing up again... and so the ones that were in charge before have decided to slap a flag on a dude and call him America's Hero... which, let's be real, Steve Rogers would NOT have done if that were the situation post Snap (probably because he knows all too well how fickle the government can be) -- it just reeks of 'America First' and no. Just no. So that's what I think John is meant to stand for. Not necessarily being AGAINST anything like Nazis or fascism or bullies or armored snakes from the sky...

[Danny Franks]

7 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Both of these tours was to get people to buy something.  For Steve it was war bonds to help the US defeat the Nazis.  Walker is on Good Morning America (nice one there Disney) to sell something.  What that something is is another question, and may be a driving factor in this series.  

It's probably the same thing that the US military is always selling, when they parade on the field before NFL and college football games - a belief in American military power being essential so that, when budgets are decided, the idea of cutting funding to a horrendously bloated sector is unimaginable to the majority of people.

Walker is the perfect spokesman, because he doesn't have any of the qualms Steve had about shilling for the army. He does what he's told by his commanders and does it without question. Which is why he's probably heading down a route that will end up with him having to fight Bucky and Sam.

He's there to sell American exceptionalism to a public who might be feeling like they're not that special after all, if what happened during the Blip happened as easily to them as to other countries. He's there to restore national pride, probably at the expense of international relations.

Edited March 29, 2021 by Danny Franks

[swanpride]

37 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Good Morning America (nice one there Disney)

To be fair, it is for Disney way easier to reference their own properties. Even if they are basically end up critiquing their own format.

[Chicago Redshirt]

2 hours ago, Dandesun said:

I don't think he's necessarily there to stand against anything. The whole speech introducing him in Ep 1 was specifically talking about him being a hero FOR AMERICA. We have this idea laid out that after the Snap, everyone came together as one or something... okay, fine. Let's say that happened although based on numbers the population just went back to what it was in the 1970s and there was plenty of borders and tribalism going on back them.

It's not just a question of numbers in the population though. It's about a series of world-changing events. In the real 1970s world, we all were still operating off of hundreds/thousands of years of rivalries and the sense that we might be all there is in terms of intelligent life.

The MCU in 2018 no longer was so lucky. It had endured first an alien invasion, but of aliens that still were beatable. Then a risked ELE through Ultron. And then finally a power beyond comprehension snapped half the universe's life out of existence. In the face of such a power and who knows what other threats out there, it seems plausible that it became clear that a lot of the old divisions no longer work and could not be sustained.

How much reason would there be to proud of America or antagonistic toward Iran (to pick an example) if you were aware that existential threats from space could wipe us off the globe at any second?

In this series, we are meant to imagine that when the Blip happened, all the united earth feeling that happened went away.

Edited March 29, 2021 by Chicago Redshirt

[Ohiopirate02]

34 minutes ago, swanpride said:

To be fair, it is for Disney way easier to reference their own properties. Even if they are basically end up critiquing their own format.

It is easier for them to use something already there instead of making up a new show.  NBC has used The Today Show and various MSNBC properties over the years on their shows.  

That being said, I wonder how Bucky decided upon ABC as his choice in news.  Also, did his partially furnished apartment come with a TV or did he go out and buy one?  If he went out and bought one, who helped him set it up? Bucky was used to the radio for his news and other programs.  A technology where you plugged it in and turned the dial until you found a station.  The movies never really had Steve trying to figure out these 21st technology things, I wish we could see Bucky tackle them.  Who gave Bucky his first smart phone? Who helped him set up his email address? 

[arc]

1 hour ago, Danny Franks said:

It's probably the same thing that the US military is always selling, when they parade on the field before NFL and college football games - a belief in American military power being essential so that, when budgets are decided, the idea of cutting funding to a horrendously bloated sector is unimaginable to the majority of people.

I'm of the mind that the MCU is very quietly slightly subversive, but ultimately when so many of their shows use US military cooperation there's only so much they can explicitly say about these things. The most we really get are analogues for modern US endless war/modern colonialism (the Kree) or individual bad actors (Hydra, Secretary Pierce, maybe Cosplay Cap). The US military itself will never be explicitly stated to be bad in MCU movies, not until Disney gets bigger than the US.

 

2 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

How much reason would there be to proud of America or antagonistic toward Iran (to pick an example) if you were aware that existential threats from space could wipe us off the globe at any second?

We just had a massive real world pandemic in 2020 and it reduced nationalism by approximately 0%.

[Chicago Redshirt]

2 minutes ago, arc said:

We just had a massive real world pandemic in 2020 and it reduced nationalism by approximately 0%.

The pandemic, as bad as it is, is not at all the same thing as an external enemy who is capable of exterminating all of us at a whim and making our existing differences look petty by comparison. There is no need to band together or die to fight it. We have historical contexts for pandemics. 

Edited March 29, 2021 by Chicago Redshirt

[arc]

Honestly, Thanos was too big a problem to inspire unity. The combined might of the Avengers plus two Infinity Stones plus Wakanda's military might just kinda slowed him down a bit and he still ended up getting his snap. I think the blip would inspire nihilism, not unity.

[Chicago Redshirt]

19 minutes ago, arc said:

Honestly, Thanos was too big a problem to inspire unity. The combined might of the Avengers plus two Infinity Stones plus Wakanda's military might just kinda slowed him down a bit and he still ended up getting his snap. I think the blip would inspire nihilism, not unity.

Part of the "nothing matters" would/could be "borders don't matter," "old national rivalries don't matter" etc. And part of getting over that nihilism might be clinging to a philosophy of "one world, one people" and building that up as something to believe in. 

Or it could simply be that Thanos's genocide had the desired result in some ways -- having half as many people on Earth led to a more fair distribution of resources, and with everyone returned, there's concern about the old world order returning.

[blackwing]

On rewatch, it occurred to me that yes, we are supposed to dislike John Walker.  We are supposed to think he is brash and arrogant and disrespectful.  However, I have come to realise that as much as I hate him being Captain America, the character at least has personality.

I then came to the realisation that THIS personality is the personality that they should have had for MCU Hawkeye.  Comic book Hawkeye is everything Cap is not.  Brash, hotheaded, impulsive, cocky.  That's what this version of John Walker is.  The only thing missing is comic book Hawkeye's witty rejoinders.

I will be forever annoyed that they didn't give MCU Hawkeye some version of his comic book costume (love the old school bright dark purple and blue) and his comic book personality.

[paigow]

54 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Who gave Bucky his first smart phone? Who helped him set up his email address? 

Zola and his minions were way ahead of the curve... Bucky probably had those in 1980... but fucking Pierce kept erasing the passwords after every mission

[Dandesun]

40 minutes ago, blackwing said:

On rewatch, it occurred to me that yes, we are supposed to dislike John Walker.  We are supposed to think he is brash and arrogant and disrespectful.  However, I have come to realise that as much as I hate him being Captain America, the character at least has personality.

I then came to the realisation that THIS personality is the personality that they should have had for MCU Hawkeye.  Comic book Hawkeye is everything Cap is not.  Brash, hotheaded, impulsive, cocky.  That's what this version of John Walker is.  The only thing missing is comic book Hawkeye's witty rejoinders.

I will be forever annoyed that they didn't give MCU Hawkeye some version of his comic book costume (love the old school bright dark purple and blue) and his comic book personality.

Comic Hawkeye is a fucking dumpster fire human who wakes up in actual dumpsters and calls Captain America to tell him he won't make the meeting. I mean, I love him...  he's a trainwreck but he loves his dog. I honestly don't mind too much that MCU Hawkeye has a different personality... I just can't say there's much of one.

Honestly, Hawkeye's brief cameo in Thor was a good start. Then it just went to stoic and stayed there. I suppose it works for Shield Agent Barton but, yeah, I would have preferred MCU Hawkeye to have a little bit more. There were glimmers of something in the Afterparty during Ultron and when he got Wanda before she could wiggly woo him the way she did everyone else but they never went further. Even Family Man on the Farm was kinda... meh.

Perhaps we'll see something more promising in the mini-series?

[Kel Varnsen]

2 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

That being said, I wonder how Bucky decided upon ABC as his choice in news.  Also, did his partially furnished apartment come with a TV or did he go out and buy one?  If he went out and bought one, who helped him set it up? Bucky was used to the radio for his news and other programs.  A technology where you plugged it in and turned the dial until you found a station.  The movies never really had Steve trying to figure out these 21st technology things, I wish we could see Bucky tackle them.  Who gave Bucky his first smart phone? Who helped him set up his email address? 

Bucky lived in the in the most technologically advanced nation in a world that is ridiculously more advanced than ours. He probably got caught up on current tech pretty fast. If not you know how if you have an older relative who always calls you for tech support.  Probably any person in Wakanda even small children could handle Buckley's questions.

[Morrigan2575]

4 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Both of these tours was to get people to buy something.  For Steve it was war bonds to help the US defeat the Nazis.  Walker is on Good Morning America (nice one there Disney) to sell something.  What that something is is another question, and may be a driving factor in this series.  

I thought he was selling the image/IP. It reminded me of a Publicity tour actors do for a new movie.