Predator and Prey: Assault, harassment, and other aggressions in the entertainment industry

[Zella]

7 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I know the threshold is lower on oped pieces than what gets published as regular articles,  but the WaPo is going to make sure they are legally in the clear before publishing a piece like this.  Which is also why Johnny is not suing them like he did with The Sun, and why he ended up in a courtroom on the opposite coast.  

I agree the Post isn't publishing anything they think is getting them sued, but the lawsuit isn't taking place on the other side of the country from the newspaper. The Post is based in DC and the trial is in Virginia, unless I'm missing something. 

Edited May 7, 2022 by Zella

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Zella said:

I agree the Post isn't publishing anything they think is getting them sued, but the lawsuit isn't taking place on the other side of the country from the newspaper. The Post is based in DC and the trial is in Virginia, unless I'm missing something. 

Yes. The trial is able to happen in Virginia because that is where the Post’s computer servers are. Technically is where that act happened since that it the original source of the online paper. 

19 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I know the threshold is lower on oped pieces than what gets published as regular articles,  but the WaPo is going to make sure they are legally in the clear before publishing a piece like this.  Which is also why Johnny is not suing them like he did with The Sun, and why he ended up in a courtroom on the opposite coast.  

I wasn’t talking about by the newspapers lawyers but by Amber’s. The paper is going to protect themselves and Amber’s lawyers should ensure that she is covered. The UK case shows that she has a lot of evidence on her side that should keep it from being slander but juries are unpredictable. 

[Lady Whistleup]

I just find it infuriating that we still want to look for "perfect victims." Victims are never perfect -- they're human. Amber Heard could be a truly shitty human being, and Johnny Depp could have abused her. They're NOT mutually exclusive.

It really reminds me of a friend who kept insisting that George Floyd was a drug addict and bringing up his rap sheet. And I was like "It doesn't matter. He was still murdered in cold blood." Like one doesn't cancel the other out.

[badhaggis]

14 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I just find it infuriating that we still want to look for "perfect victims." Victims are never perfect -- they're human. Amber Heard could be a truly shitty human being, and Johnny Depp could have abused her. They're NOT mutually exclusive.

It really reminds me of a friend who kept insisting that George Floyd was a drug addict and bringing up his rap sheet. And I was like "It doesn't matter. He was still murdered in cold blood." Like one doesn't cancel the other out.

Thank you!!!!! I wish I could like this a thousand times!!!

[Cinnabon]

Just now, badhaggis said:

Thank you!!!!! I wish I could like this a thousand times!!!

Same. The amount of victim blaming I still see is staggering and disheartening. 

[Annber03]

4 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Same. The amount of victim blaming I still see is staggering and disheartening. 

And the people who do all the victim blaming are always the same ones who inevitably are like, "...why are these women just coming forward now? Why didn't they speak up sooner?" 

Gee, yeah, people, it's a real headscratcher...

[Jaded]

1 hour ago, mariah23 said:

Are you effing kidding me???!!!!!!

I've read rumors online about Fred Savage for quite a few years. I'm glad something has finally been done in regards to his behavior so there's a documented public record .  As much as I liked The Wonder Years and Boy Meets World something has seemed off to me about both Savage brothers. I hope I'm wrong about Ben.

[aradia22]

Quote

As Yahoo! points out, costume designer Monique Long filed a sexual-harassment suit in 1993 alleging Savage and Hervey, who were 16 and 20 years old at the time, physically and verbally harassed her every day. According to the suit, Long allegedly attempted to bring up the harassment to producers to no avail, and was subsequently let go. “It was such a joke,” Mills says of Long’s claims. “It’s a little bit like what’s happening now. Some innocent people can get caught up in this stuff. It’s very tricky. It was so not true. It was my dresser, and I don’t care if she’s listening. I probably shouldn’t be telling this, but I don’t care because it was so long ago. It’s gotta be over now.”

https://www.vulture.com/2018/01/alley-mills-says-harassment-claim-ended-the-wonder-years.html

Quote

A former costume designer has accused actor Fred Savage of physical harassment on the set of the TV show The Grinder. In a press conference on Wednesday, Youngjoo Hwang, speaking alongside her attorney, accused the actor of repeated verbal harassment that turned physical when she tried to remove lint from his costume. “He would routinely curse at me, yell at me, demean me when all I was trying to do was my job,” Hwang said. Once, when she tried to remove lint, he slapped her arm three times. Hwang did not specify when this happened, but said she immediately reported the alleged incident to her superiors, who discouraged her from taking further action. “I’m not the only woman on set that Mr. Savage targeted,” Hwang said. “There were others, and this was well-known on set.” 

https://www.vulture.com/2018/03/fred-savage-accused-of-physical-harassment-on-grinder-set.html

Unclear what the nature of this inappropriate conduct is now

[Zella]

I've not seen this followup posted here, but Frank Langella has given his version of events around being fired a couple of weeks ago. He claims he was unfairly fired and mistreated while also admitting that he refused to accept instructions from an intimacy coordinator during a sex scene and he brushes off the actress being uncomfortable with where he put his hands because that is all apparently subordinate to him feeling spontaneous. This isn't the rousing defense he apparently thinks it is. 

https://deadline.com/2022/05/frank-langella-refutes-allegations-of-unacceptable-behavior-fired-by-netflix-1235017544/amp/

Edited May 7, 2022 by Zella

[aradia22]

Quote

On March 25 of this year, I was performing a love scene with the actress playing my young wife. Both of us were fully clothed. I was sitting on a couch, she was standing in front of me. The director called “cut.” “He touched my leg,” said the actress. “That was not in the blocking.” She then turned and walked off the set, followed by the director and the intimacy coordinator. I attempted to follow but was asked to “give her some space.” I waited for approximately one hour, and was then told she was not returning to set and we were wrapped.

Not long after, an investigation began. Approximately one week later, Human Resources asked to speak to me by phone. “Before the love scene began on March 25,” said the questioner, “our intimacy coordinator suggested where you both should put your hands. It has been brought to our attention that you said, ‘This is absurd!’” “Yes,” I said, “I did. And I still think so.” It was a love scene on camera. Legislating the placement of hands, to my mind, is ludicrous. It undermines instinct and spontaneity. Toward the end of our conversation, she suggested that I not contact the young lady, the intimacy coordinator, or anyone else in the company. “We don’t want to risk retaliation,” she said. When I mentioned that it was certainly not my intention to … she cut me off politely and said: “Intention is not our concern. Netflix deals only with impact.”

When you are the leading actor, it requires, in my opinion, that you set an example by keeping the atmosphere light and friendly. Nevertheless, these were some of the allegations: 1. “He told an off-color joke. 2. “Sometimes he called me ‘baby’ or ‘honey.’” 3. “He’d give me a hug or touch my shoulder.”

“You cannot do that, Frank,” said our producer. “You can’t joke. You can’t compliment. You can’t touch. It’s a new order.”

On April 13, the following item appeared on TMZ: “Frank Langella has been fired by Netflix for fondling a young actress between takes and she stormed off the set.” That is demonstrably false. That is a total lie. The actress was mentioned by name. The same young woman who had accused me of “touching her leg” on camera in the love scene. The next day the item was corrected to read: “Frank Langella has not been fired but is under investigation.” In this version, the actress’s name was deleted.

I can understand why he thinks explaining the situation makes it better. He "only" touched her on the leg. But in the full context, now we also know that he was completely dismissive of the intimacy coordinator, told an off-color joke, used unwelcome endearments, and engaged in unwelcome touching. I wonder if the intimacy coordinator could have helped the actors discuss what kind of touch they would both be comfortable with if not outright choreographing it. But I feel like the actress was probably already uncomfortable with him if she wanted to strictly adhere to the blocking. And it all reminds me of those old stories (especially with Dustin Hoffman) that assume there has to be surprise or spontaneity (with the implication that actresses can't be trusted to do their jobs).

[Zella]

11 minutes ago, aradia22 said:

I can understand why he thinks explaining the situation makes it better. He "only" touched her on the leg. But in the full context, now we also know that he was completely dismissive of the intimacy coordinator, told an off-color joke, used unwelcome endearments, and engaged in unwelcome touching. I wonder if the intimacy coordinator could have helped the actors discuss what kind of touch they would both be comfortable with if not outright choreographing it. But I feel like the actress was probably already uncomfortable with him if she wanted to strictly adhere to the blocking. And it all reminds me of those old stories (especially with Dustin Hoffman) that assume there has to be surprise or spontaneity (with the implication that actresses can't be trusted to do their jobs).

I kind of wondered if the intimacy coordinator was trying to tell him something the actress had already conveyed as a buffer but without coming out and saying, "This already creeps her out--back off," and he was too stubborn, self-absorbed, and obtuse to pick up on that. 

Edited May 7, 2022 by Zella

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, Zella said:

I've not seen this followup posted here, but Frank Langella has given his version of events around being fired a couple of weeks ago. He claims he was unfairly fired and mistreated while also admitting that he refused to accept instructions from an intimacy coordinator during a sex scene and he brushes off the actress being uncomfortable with where he put his hands because that is all apparently subordinate to him feeling spontaneous. This isn't the rousing defense he apparently thinks it is. 

https://deadline.com/2022/05/frank-langella-refutes-allegations-of-unacceptable-behavior-fired-by-netflix-1235017544/amp/

His mindset and the inevitable people who will agree with him is depressing so I am going to focus on the positive. Netflix actually looks really good in this story. The actress complained and was protected. I particularly liked these quotes:

Quote

“Intention is not our concern. Netflix deals only with impact.”

Quote

That afternoon, I was fired. I was not given a hearing with Netflix. My request to meet one-on-one with the actress was denied. The directors and the producer stopped answering my emails and phone calls. Within 30 minutes of my firing, a letter went out to cast and crew and a full press release was sent immediately. My representatives and I were given no opportunity to comment or collaborate on the narrative.

 

[Ms Blue Jay]

More corporations should be acting this way; it's not hard, and yet it is rare.

Edited May 7, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[RealHousewife]

2 hours ago, Annber03 said:

And the people who do all the victim blaming are always the same ones who inevitably are like, "...why are these women just coming forward now? Why didn't they speak up sooner?" 

Gee, yeah, people, it's a real headscratcher...

Some stuff is very difficult to talk about, or even admit happened to you. 

I never had the stereotypical strange man in a back alley rape. For many years I wasn't  sure why I was easily triggered by stories of rape and sexual assault or hated "locker room talk." I thought some of my feelings were due to being body shamed or groped, and that I was just an extra sensitive person. I'd hear stories from girls about suffering years of repeated sexual abuse, and think, I never had that. I have no right to feel like such a victim and be so sensitive when they've gone through such hell.

But I think I was molested as a small child.

There are some disturbing memories I have. They aren't the most clear. But there are things the person I think molested me has said that scream this person was a predator. I've wanted to talk about it with a counselor so badly, but I can't bring myself to do it. I worry about having to come to terms with something really heinous or worry about putting something so ugly out into the universe that may not be true. I worry about this person haunting me. I've wondered if I should wait until their death before I discuss it with a counselor. Even typing this out, I'm so scared of giving out details, getting emotional, and someone I know finding out. One reason I didn't want to have kids for so long is because I was scared of them being sexually abused. My fear is I'd leave them with someone for a few hours, and God knows what could happen. I've had different things happen to me throughout the years that fall under assault (being grabbed, groped, men pressing up behind you at clubs, stuff like that). I hated all those incidents, but none of them bothered me the way my childhood memories do.

I was never comfortable in my own body, even as a child. I hated developing. I didn't want curves. I'd hear the way curvier girls were sexualized, and I didn't want any part of that. I was never going to be Kim Kardashian, but I still taped my breasts down and wanted to diet my hips away. I was anorexic for awhile. There were multiple factors at play when it comes to my eating disorder, but I think trauma played a role. A part of me thought if I were a stick, it would mean safety. I dress super femininely now. This would shock people who've only known me the last several years, but in my early teens, I dressed like a boy. For years I liked my stuff baggy, boyish and very gradually started to look a little more like a girl. As I got older, I started to wear more feminine patterns and colors. I didn't start wearing dresses until my late 20s, and even that was when I discovered it was easier to hide curves in a baggy dress than it was in jeans and a top. 

I used to act on the side, and I wondered whether or not it would be cathartic to play the role of a sexual abuse survivor or not. I used to think it would be my way of expressing stuff's happened to me without having to spell it out. I've managed to share that I've experienced a lot of mental abuse with a select few, but most people don't know the half of it. I feel like I've lived a big, fat lie most of my life trying to pretend everything's perfect. Part of what drew me to acting. My eating issues, anxiety, insomnia, depression, none of that came from nowhere. 

Regarding acting and getting back to the entertainment industry, another thing that broke my heart is one of my favorite acting teachers turned out to be a predator. He was such a huge inspiration, and a very talented guy. He never did anything to me. But he went after young aspiring actresses. There's SO much shadiness in the entertainment industry, even when you're not talking anywhere near huge names like there are in most of this thread. 

I can get a little leery judging people who don't understand those who don't come forward until many years later. I know my own views don't make some people happy 100% of the time. And I think some good people just do not get it. I remember how many people I knew who defended Bill Cosby and couldn't wrap their heads around the fact so many women were scared to come forward until all those years later. I'm ashamed to admit this, but when I was younger I thought Michael Jackson was innocent. I watched the documentary that came out, and while it was very difficult for me to watch, I'm glad I did. But one thing I do believe is someone who has a pattern of taking up for predators has some skeletons of their own. 

[MsTree]

18 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

It's not easy to just walk out. Thinking it is helps perpetuate the problem.

So instead of walking out they pick up a phone to record and tape?!? Makes no sense at all.

15 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Victims of DV are not "stupid" or "poor and broke." It can happen to anyone from any background or socioeconomic status

For the record, I never said she was stupid, poor or broke. Quite the opposite.

People are reading too much into what I said. Context, please.

[MsTree]

4 hours ago, Annber03 said:

And the people who do all the victim blaming are always the same ones who inevitably are like, "...why are these women just coming forward now? Why didn't they speak up sooner?" 

Gee, yeah, people, it's a real headscratcher...

And when did poster-shaming become a thing? I thought PT was a place for lively & respectful debate, where ALL opinions are welcomed?

Edited May 7, 2022 by MsTree

[Annber03]

For my part, I wasn't calling out anyone specifically. I was just speaking on a general level, and expanding on what other people were talking about. 

[merylinkid]

6 hours ago, Dani said:

I was not given a hearing with Netflix. My request to meet one-on-one with the actress was denied.

Netflix is not required to give you a damn hearing.   They are a private corporation, they can fire your ass in a hot second if they want, no due process required.   You think they violated the contract, you can sue them.   But unless your contract says you are entitled to be heard before being fired -- you aren't.

 

As for a one-on-one with the actress - how to tell the world you don't get what you did is wrong without actually saying it.   You assaulted her.   She is not going to meet alone with you after that.

[Kel Varnsen]

8 hours ago, Zella said:

I've not seen this followup posted here, but Frank Langella has given his version of events around being fired a couple of weeks ago. He claims he was unfairly fired and mistreated while also admitting that he refused to accept instructions from an intimacy coordinator during a sex scene and he brushes off the actress being uncomfortable with where he put his hands because that is all apparently subordinate to him feeling spontaneous. This isn't the rousing defense he apparently thinks it is. 

https://deadline.com/2022/05/frank-langella-refutes-allegations-of-unacceptable-behavior-fired-by-netflix-1235017544/amp/

I read that story on the AV club. The weird thing is that even taking out the sex scene stuff, the other stuff he admits to (off colour jokes, uninvited hugs, calling people honey) is stuff where if I did that at work and was warned I would expect to eventually get fired. So I am not sure if he was admitting to that to get some kind of sympathy, it's weird.

[SunnyBeBe]

18 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Quoting this because that whole spiel was nearly exactly what Jennifer Grey said in her book when things started to go bad with the two of them. Word for word. I am not even exaggerating.

Really? I never read Grey's book or heard her speak of this. I did watch Evan Rachel Wood documentary and was floored, as her story is  almost identical to mine. Different men, but same MO.

Edited May 7, 2022 by SunnyBeBe

[Lady Whistleup]

7 hours ago, MsTree said:

So instead of walking out they pick up a phone to record and tape?!? Makes no sense at all.

For the record, I never said she was stupid, poor or broke. Quite the opposite.

People are reading too much into what I said. Context, please.

In general, police want "evidence" of abuse. Many DV victims are actually told to record their partners being abusive for a court case. I used to work with some teens who were in abusive relationships and they were told to screencap text messages, record verbal threats, etc. You need to build a trail so the courts can step in.

Also, you said that she wasn't stupid, poor or broke so why wouldn't she leave? That's not really understanding the complex dynamics behind DV. I personally know several victims of DV and none were "stupid, poor or broke." All had college degrees, some had great jobs before their partners demanded they quit.

[Spartan Girl]

47 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Really? I never read Grey's book or heard her speak of this. I did watch Evan Rachel Wood documentary and was floored, as her story is  almost identical to mine. Different men, but same MO.

The book only just came out.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, MsTree said:

So instead of walking out they pick up a phone to record and tape?!? Makes no sense at all.

On 5/6/2022 at 8:26 AM, Lady Whistleup said:

Leaving relationship is 'most dangerous time' for domestic violence victims, experts say

Private Violence: up to 75% of abused women who are murdered are killed after they leave their partners

Many things that people think make sense involving the law are absolutely the wrong thing to do. Documenting abuse rather than just walking away absolutely makes sense from a protection standpoint. Survivors of abuse have very few legal protections and the ones that do exist require evidence. 

[Guest]

Also, I think it’s important to remember that victims of intimate partner violence often can’t just walk away because the perpetrators won’t just walk away or will actively pursue a fleeing victim.  There is tendency to hyper focus on the victims actions because we just accept that abusers are not reasonable. 

And it is telling, about society as a whole, that you don’t see these conversations happening about why Johnny Depp (both as a potential abuser or a potential victim) didn’t just walk away. 

[CynicalGirl]

For those asking why she didn't just leave, keep in mind that Johnny is claiming HE was the abused party. So why didn't he just leave?

[janie jones]

14 hours ago, Dani said:

My representatives and I were given no opportunity to comment or collaborate on the narrative.

"They didn't even give us a chance to get my story straight!" This fuckin guy.

[Blergh]

19 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I've read the op-ed that this whole case hinges on, and Amber never states Johnny abused her.  The whole case hinges on one sentence-- "Then two years ago, I became a public figure representing domestic abuse, and I felt the full force of our culture’s wrath for women who speak out."

Was she talking about Johnny there? Of course she was, but I fail to see how this one sentence rises to the legal definition of slander. 

 

It's not as though Mr. Depp was the only person Miss Heard had ever had any interaction with in her entire life.

IOW, had Mr. Depp and his legal team had just kept quiet, the public would have assumed that him having committed domestic violence was a probability  but  not a foregone conclusion instead of them having confirmed it via attempting to sue her for slander!

This sure seems to have embodied the old saying that ' if you throw a rock at a pack of dogs, it's always that one that gets HIT that howls! '

[DearEvette]

19 hours ago, Dani said:

That actually doesn’t surprise me. I hadn’t heard about the previous allegations but something has always made me think he was a creep. Now, an allegation against his brother would surprise me.

I have never given a single thought to Fred Savage.  And now I am learning he spread a reign of tiny terror across three different shows.  Holy cow. 

Based on what Trina McGee said about Ben being racist to her during the BMW years I think he is right up there too.  Interestingly when she name checked the actors who had created uncomfortable working conditions for her, the other two she mentioned have actually admitted to what they did/said and apologized.  He, otoh, has been crickets.  Thank god Ryder Strong was not one of them, I think it would have broken my Shawn&Angela loving heart if he had been.

 

3 hours ago, Dani said:

Leaving relationship is 'most dangerous time' for domestic violence victims, experts say

Private Violence: up to 75% of abused women who are murdered are killed after they leave their partners

This, 100%.  An victim leaving is the potential for the abuser to a) lose the object of their obsession and b) to be outed. So it can precipitate an escalation.

In order for abused partners to get away successfully, it is critical they have an exit strategy.  It includes, but not limited to -- learning who to trust to help, setting aside money, setting up a place to go, and planning a route.  The first two can make the exit planning take months or years, since in some relationships the abuser exerts a lot of control including monitoring all communications and controlling the money as well as having isolated the person to extent that they are the ones who are considered problematic, not the abuser.

[BetterButter]

3 women accuse  ‘No Time to Die’ director Cary Fukunaga of manipulation, predatory behavior

Quote

'We’re sharing it because we know we aren't alone in our experience.'

 

[Ms Blue Jay]

46 minutes ago, BetterButter said:

3 women accuse  ‘No Time to Die’ director Cary Fukunaga of manipulation, predatory behavior

Thank you for sharing.  This isn't the first time we've heard stuff about him.

https://www.nme.com/news/tv/true-detective-actress-claims-she-was-fired-for-refusing-nude-scene-after-director-cary-joji-fukunaga-pressured-her-3070691

Edited May 7, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[aradia22]

The twin sisters shared their experience here: https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1ss1ah0

I don't know about the first woman as I think it was taken down.

[SunnyBeBe]

20 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

Same. The amount of victim blaming I still see is staggering and disheartening. 

Where are the groups who defended women who came forward previously against other big names in the business?  Victim shaming was called out in a big way. 

[seasons]

I'm sorry if I missed this or am misunderstanding what is out there, but I'm not seeing support for Amber from any of the "me too" movement. Am I missing something?

[Blergh]

Come to think of it, when was the last time anyone from 'me too' expressed any public input? It seems to have been . . .not as vocal in recent months as it was at an earlier time. 

Edited May 8, 2022 by Blergh

[MsTree]

16 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Also, you said that she wasn't stupid, poor or broke so why wouldn't she leave? That's not really understanding the complex dynamics behind DV. I personally know several victims of DV and none were "stupid, poor or broke." All had college degrees, some had great jobs before their partners demanded they quit.

Further explanation relating to the quoted: When I said she's not stupid, I was not referring to her education. What I meant (and should have said) is that she had the wherewithal to leave, so why wouldn't she? Why stick around for the abuse when she could have just taken a short drive until the fight was over? Anything to escape the abuse, even for a moment.

Upon further reading, I get that some men will chase after their victim, but perhaps she could have left when he was in one of his drunken stupors. 

Edited May 8, 2022 by MsTree
additional comment

[MsTree]

12 hours ago, Dani said:

Leaving relationship is 'most dangerous time' for domestic violence victims, experts say

Private Violence: up to 75% of abused women who are murdered are killed after they leave their partners

Many things that people think make sense involving the law are absolutely the wrong thing to do. Documenting abuse rather than just walking away absolutely makes sense from a protection standpoint. Survivors of abuse have very few legal protections and the ones that do exist require evidence. 

Appreciate the links/response, but I have to wonder if Depp really would have killed her, especially since he's claiming that she abused him!  I mean that would blow his entire case wide open, right?!?

10 hours ago, CynicalGirl said:

For those asking why she didn't just leave, keep in mind that Johnny is claiming HE was the abused party. So why didn't he just leave?

Good question, but I have a feeling that he enjoyed it to a certain degree, like any other masochist. Let's not forget that this is a guy who cut himself and felt no pain at all. 

[MsTree]

6 hours ago, seasons said:

I'm sorry if I missed this or am misunderstanding what is out there, but I'm not seeing support for Amber from any of the "me too" movement. Am I missing something?

Maybe because she gave as good as she got??  Just a thought.

[peachmangosteen]

I think it's probably because, for some reason and contrary to what he's claiming, Johnny Depp still has some clout/pull in the industry. 

[Lady Whistleup]

8 hours ago, MsTree said:

Further explanation relating to the quoted: When I said she's not stupid, I was not referring to her education. What I meant (and should have said) is that she had the wherewithal to leave, so why wouldn't she? Why stick around for the abuse when she could have just taken a short drive until the fight was over? Anything to escape the abuse, even for a moment.

Upon further reading, I get that some men will chase after their victim, but perhaps she could have left when he was in one of his drunken stupors. 

She did leave though. She left fairly quickly too. In DV situations getting out within 5 years is considered short. Many DV victims wait years to build up a plan to leave -- this includes reconnecting with family members, getting their own bank account, taking night courses to be employable, secretly leasing a car.

I think Amber Heard challenges our assumptions about what DV victims look like. We think they're meek and sweet and retiring. Amber is not like that -- she's clearly a strong personality. But as I said, DV happens to everyone and anyone. 

It happens to men too. I have met men in DV situations where their girlfriends/wives were emotionally and physically abusive.

Edited May 8, 2022 by Lady Whistleup

[Spartan Girl]

So another anecdote from Jennifer Grey’s book that relates to this thread: she lives next door to Winona Ryder right around the time Winona was showing interest in Sean Penn. Jennifer, being friends with Penn’s ex Madonna, tried to warn Winona about him…and some time after that, she got a very angry message from Penn telling her to “mind her own fucking business.” 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

3 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

It happens to men too. I have met men in DV situations where their girlfriends/wives were emotionally and physically abusive.

It does, but there's a different tone to the reactions, yeah? I don't want to say no one cares, because that would not be accurate, but at the same time look at this Amber-vs-Johnny case. This is going to affect him, has already affected him, much more than it will affect her, since he's lost work due to the allegations she's being sued over. Meanwhile, Sony has "compromised"  by editing her presence in the Aquaman sequel down to ten or twenty minutes, but they've actively refused to recast the role with someone else, the suggestion of Emilia Clarke. Peter Safran, the film's producer, said last year that they probably wouldn't bow to "pure fan pressure, that you have to do what's best for the movie", so Amber would remain part of the cast. Are they trying to avoid having her sue them for some sort of breach of contract, a la Scarlett Johansson taking Disney to court? Maybe and even probably, but if she did abuse Depp, how is it any different than looking the other way for a guy to go on employing her?

[Lady Whistleup]

7 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

It does, but there's a different tone to the reactions, yeah? I don't want to say no one cares, because that would not be accurate, but at the same time look at this Amber-vs-Johnny case. This is going to affect him, has already affected him, much more than it will affect her, since he's lost work due to the allegations she's being sued over. Meanwhile, Sony has "compromised"  by editing her presence in the Aquaman sequel down to ten or twenty minutes, but they've actively refused to recast the role with someone else, the suggestion of Emilia Clarke. Peter Safran, the film's producer, said last year that they probably wouldn't bow to "pure fan pressure, that you have to do what's best for the movie", so Amber would remain part of the cast. Are they trying to avoid having her sue them for some sort of breach of contract, a la Scarlett Johansson taking Disney to court? Maybe and even probably, but if she did abuse Depp, how is it any different than looking the other way for a guy to go on employing her?

See the thing about Johnny Depp is that way before the Amber Heard allegations, he had a rep as a mean drunk. There's a reason his career dried up around 2012, around the same time he got together with Heard and apparently his drinking became more out of control.

The other issue is Heard isn't an A-list actor the way Depp is. Depp would command millions per film. No reason for any producer to want to touch that now and deal with an angry drunk on set.

[Wiendish Fitch]

27 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

So another anecdote from Jennifer Grey’s book that relates to this thread: she lives next door to Winona Ryder right around the time Winona was showing interest in Sean Penn. Jennifer, being friends with Penn’s ex Madonna, tried to warn Winona about him…and some time after that, she got a very angry message from Penn telling her to “mind her own fucking business.” 

Least surprising thing I've heard all day. Sean Penn is one the biggest moral hypocrites, and his past abusive behavior has been swept under the rug for far too long. 

[CynicalGirl]

2 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

See the thing about Johnny Depp is that way before the Amber Heard allegations, he had a rep as a mean drunk. There's a reason his career dried up around 2012, around the same time he got together with Heard and apparently his drinking became more out of control.

The other issue is Heard isn't an A-list actor the way Depp is. Depp would command millions per film. No reason for any producer to want to touch that now and deal with an angry drunk on set.

From looking at pictures of them, when they first got together he still looked good. Then suddenly, he's this big bloated dirty-looking mess. And with this trial, he just confirmed to the world what an addicted mess he was, going through withdrawals and detox.

Also, the way he trashed that Australia house, good lord, with the nonsense writing on the mirrors, and destroying Amber's closet. This was a man who was OUT OF CONTROL. The Johnny fans are like "oh yeah he damages property but he would never hit anyone." Bullshit. If someone is that violent with objects, who's to say they won't go a step further. Especially someone in a blackout, which is exactly what I think he was.

Yes, he lost Pirates but that may have happened before the op-ed was published. And he lost his part in Fantastic Beasts. If he got his act together, he would still be bankable. But bringing all this dirty laundry to light, I just don't know what he hopes to accomplish. Even if he wins, he still looks like an asshole.

[Guest]

I recently saw a social media post where the person pointed out that most of #justiceforJohnny group isn’t really about supporting Depp but about attacking Heard. He felt that a lot of the #Mentoo outrage is not about legitimate concern for male victims but a way for misogynists to feel vindicated and take down #Metoo. 

I tend to agree with that take and it pinpointed what bothers me most in this whole situation. It’s not unusual for victims to fight back and become abusive. That doesn’t make them any less of a victim. With Depp and Heard it is so messy it’s impossible for me to determine if one of them began the abuse and the other reacted or if it was mutually abusive from day 1. I don’t completely believe either of them. I’m not inclined to defend either of them as people but I am bothered that this is being used to spread some very harmful beliefs about victims. Some of the anti-Amber rhetoric is deeply disturbing.

I saw a TikTok video where a person took Heard’s description of the abuse and mocked her for having a problem with it because she would welcome Depp doing that to her. There is a whole group on Twitter who thinks that this can be used to vindicate Marilyn Manson and are comparing Heard to Evan Rachel Wood. Largely this isn’t being used to bring awareness to male victims but to further tear down all victims under the guise of justice. 

[CynicalGirl]

I agree, these #justiceforjohnny people are against her no matter what is proven in court. They want to see her destroyed (as does Depp).  Personally, I would like to  hear the entire case before making up my mind. And I can't help but remember that a judge in the UK ruled against Depp because of her testimony and witnesses. That says a lot, to me anyway.

[Mabinogia]

6 minutes ago, Dani said:

I don’t completely believe either of them. I’m not inclined to defend either of them as people but I am bothered that this is being used to spread some very harmful beliefs about victims. Some of the anti-Amber rhetoric is deeply disturbing.

Completely agree with this. Personally, I think they are both victims of each other and both abusers of each other from what little I've seen. I also feel they are both severely damaged people who probably shouldn't be in the public eye because I think that just fuels their worst behaviours. 

Unfortunately they are both celebrities and are being used by total strangers to further said strangers' agendas. 

My not at all professional opinion is that they both need a lot of therapy and to stay very, very far away from one another. They are the poster children for a toxic relationship. 

[peachmangosteen]

2 hours ago, CynicalGirl said:

But bringing all this dirty laundry to light, I just don't know what he hopes to accomplish. Even if he wins, he still looks like an asshole.

He wants to hurt Amber imo. It's really the only thing that makes sense. Not that it makes sense of course, but an abuser going after their victim this way when their victim leaves/goes public is something that happens.

2 hours ago, Dani said:

I recently saw a social media post where the person pointed out that most of #justiceforJohnny group isn’t really about supporting Depp but about attacking Heard. He felt that a lot of the #Mentoo outrage is not about legitimate concern for male victims but a way for misogynists to feel vindicated and take down #Metoo. 

I tend to agree with that take and pinpointed what bothers me most in this whole situation. It’s not unusually for victims to fight back and become abusive. That doesn’t make them any less of a victim. With Depp and Heard it is so messy it’s impossible for me to determine if one of them began the abuse and the other reacted or if it was mutually abusive from day 1. I don’t completely believe either of them. I’m not inclined to defend either of them as people but I am bothered that this is being used to spread some very harmful beliefs about victims. Some of the anti-Amber rhetoric is deeply disturbing.

I saw a TikTok video where a person took Heard’s description of the abuse and mocked her for having a problem with it because she would welcome Depp doing that to her. There is a whole group of Twitter who thinks that this can be used to vindicate Marilyn Manson and are comparing Heard to Evan Rachel Wood. Largely this isn’t being used to bring awareness to male victims but to further tear down all victims under the guise of justice. 

Exactly this. All of this. 

[possibilities]

WIth regard to why people with means and intelligence would stay with someone who was abusing them...

I know a woman whose husband beat her up so severely that he put her in the hospital multiple times. She stayed with him for decades. Before they married, she had a thriving career and was making lots of money and had authority in her job (upper management). She also had no kids. She seemed like a strong person, to me. 

In the beginning of their relationship, I saw her stand up to him a few times. But over the years, she did more and more to appease him. She quite her job and went to work as his employee. She apparently became isolated from her (previously close) family. She did all kinds of insane things to please and appease him.

I never understood it. What did she see in this monster? Someone said to me: "He wore her down, he broke her down mentally, she just didn't have the emotional reserves to separate."

There is an element of brainwashing and PTSD that drives people into shame and confusion and terror. A lot of people would have helped this woman if she had been willing to accept help. But she was somehow so demolished by his behavior that she stayed until she was almost 70 years old. At that point, she did leave him, and moved across the country and asked to be left alone and not contacted by anyone who knew her.

Trauma does things to people that it's hard to understand if you haven't seen it up close.

And often people start to doubt their own reality, thinking they must have been remembering wrong, or over-reacting, or they just get so used to it that they can't even resist it internally. This is another reason to record things. It can help validate your perceptions, and help convince others, also, who might be inclined to think you're just crazy.

[Prairie Rose]

First off, @RealHousewife and @SunnyBeBe, I am so sorry that you went through such horrific experiences. Mine happened in my mid-30s, by a man I had known (or thought I knew) and trusted for years. I thought he was my friend, and I never saw it coming. Never. To this day, almost all men to me seem sinister in some way. 

Speaking of sinister, there's something about Fred Savage that gives off that vibe to me. He made a TV movie with Candace Cameron around 1996 where he played an abusive boyfriend and was a guest star in an early SVU as a man who acted as his own attorney, defending himself against rape charges. I found both performances very disturbing, almost too convincing - so this news doesn't surprise me. 

As for Johnny Depp and Amber Heard, these two are the very personification of a toxic couple, who never should have married in the first place. Neither of them looks good here.